Need some advice about very damaged hair?

[xoChesleyy]

Hi all! I would love some advice about good co-washing (and any other) recommendations for chemically processed damaged hair.


*Short version: My hair was badly bleach damaged back in March. I am experiencing breakage/splits as well as dryness. I CO-wash but sometimes my length still looks greasy afterwards, which makes me think it is either build-up or that I need to try using a different conditioner on my length. I would like some advice about CO-washing bleach damaged hair and what products I should be using.

Here's a bit of a backstory (I'll try keeping it as short as possible): I used to have very healthy, long hair. Back in March, I decided to be a bit too rebellious and dye my hair red. My hair was black so it required lightening. I used Color Oops on my hair then a few days later proceeded to bleach. I slathered my hair in coconut oil and applied the bleach. The instructions said to leave the bleach on for a minimum of 45 minutes. After about 25 minutes, I smelled a horrible burning smell and ran to the shower. While rinsing out the bleach, I noticed that my hair was snapping and it was now extremely damaged. I was devastated. I am pretty sure it was an old batch of bleach because I cannot see any other explanation as to why that happened and I wouldn't even want to know how much worse the damage would have been had I not used coconut oil! But it was so so bad...My hair was gummy and kept snapping while wet for around two weeks or so. What's worse is, the bleach didn't even lift the black in most spots, so I was never able to achieve the red I wanted since my hair hardly lightened (and I was NOT going to be touching any more chemicals after that).

Ever since, in hopes of eventually restoring my hair, I have been dying my hair with the Pravana violet semi-permanent dye, doing weekly overnight coconut oil treatments as a pre-wash, CO-washing, doing regular S&D trims, small trims every couple months, along with weekly/bi-weekly ACV rinses. I will also admit that I am bad about not detangling and wearing protective styles but I am unsure of how beneficial this would be to me anyway since most of my damage is chemical damage, rather than physical? Anyway, my hair has significantly improved since that entire fiasco, but it is still very damaged.

When I S&D, I always find lots of white dots and if I pull at the strand, the hair breaks off where the dot is (I always snip those off when I see them but there are so many). I also have quite a few split ends and DRYNESS. I have been doing a lot of research about co-washing bleach damaged hair and it's pretty overwhelming. I have read such mixed opinions-- Some people suggesting not to use cones because they will prevent the moisture from actually penetrating your hair and others saying to use cones to add slip and make hair appear healthy. In my current routine, I am using Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner on my scalp and length when it's dry before showering, I let it sit for about 15 minutes, get in the shower, wet my hair a little, work the conditioner into my scalp again while wet, and rinse. Then I put Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist on my length, let it sit for the remaining duration of my shower, and rinse. A problem I have been having with this is that sometimes when I get out of the shower, my length looks a bit greasy. The 3MM conditioner is really thick, so do I need to opt for something of a thinner consistency to put on my length or could this be caused by something else? Also, my hair will usually feel moisturized for a day or so, but then the ends start feeling very dry again...I have several questions below relating to all this. Sorry that there's so many! I am pretty overwhelmed.

Questions:

1. Do you think the greasiness after showering is build-up? If so, what kind of clarifying shampoo should I try using and how often?
2. A couple days after CO-washing, my hair (mostly my ends) gets dry again. Is this most likely from the bleach damage or should I try a different conditioner? Would coconut oil be beneficial to put on my ends daily or something else?
3. Are the cones used in Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner and Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist conditioner water soluble or can they cause build-up?
4. Having bleach damaged hair, should I use coney or cone-free conditioners? Do coney conditioners prevent hair from taking in the moisture?
5. Any CO-washing conditioner recommendations or other tips?

Any answers to any of these questions would be very much appreciated as well as any additional tips/recommendations. I have been super frustrated about my hair lately and I feel as though I am doing something wrong here in my current routine. I am always looking for improvement in my routine and I know it will take time, but I just want my hair to get healthy again. I know hair cannot "repair" itself so I am trying to be realistic while trying to get rid of the damage and improve my hair's health as much as possible.

Thank you all in advance!

[lapushka]

First off, breaking and snapping hair needs protein. Get yourself a nice protein treatment and keep your "care" to a minimum otherwise.

If your hair is still oily after CO-washing, try a sulfate-free shampoo, then see how far you can go. Washing less is definitely better.

Don't pull the white dots! They can stay in the hair without breaking for a long time, as long as you take care of your hair properly. Then *gradually* snip them out (over months and months) or you'll get very thin hair.

With bleach damage, it is better to use silicones on the hair!!! It will *so* limit the mechanical damage.

[Nightshade]

I will also admit that I am bad about not detangling and wearing protective styles but I am unsure of how beneficial this would be to me anyway since most of my damage is chemical damage, rather than physical? Anyway, my hair has significantly improved since that entire fiasco, but it is still very damaged.

This matters immensely. The origin of the damage doesn't matter because the repercussions from the damage are the same. The structure of your hair is fragile and weak. This makes it more susceptible to more damage from things that your hair encounters by wearing it down. Keeping it up or in another protective style will reduce further breakage, as well as keep moisture in your hair if you do things like damp bun.

Questions:

1. Do you think the greasiness after showering is build-up? If so, what kind of clarifying shampoo should I try using and how often?

It does sounds to me like you have some intense silicone buildup. I would recommend clarifying with a sulfate shampoo and either not use silcones, or only use water soluble ones.

2. A couple days after CO-washing, my hair (mostly my ends) gets dry again. Is this most likely from the bleach damage or should I try a different conditioner? Would coconut oil be beneficial to put on my ends daily or something else?

Because the cuticle of your hair is pretty ruined, you hair has lost its ability to keep moisture inside itself. Oils themselves do not moisturize, but they help keep moisture in. You could try a SMT or other deep moisture treatment like a long soak in silicone-free conditioner, and then follow up with coconut oil to help seal in the moisture. Wearing your hair up and protected will also help retard moisture loss.

3. Are the cones used in Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner and Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist conditioner water soluble or can they cause build-up?

I'm not sure which silicone are in the products you're using, but for general reference.

Silicone ingredients end with the suffixes -one, -onol, or -xane. Silicones that are most prone to buildup and that are best avoided if you are experiencing dry hair, poor dye uptake, or your hair feeling coated include:
• Amodimethicone
• Behenoxy Dimethicone Cetearyl methicone
• Bis-Amino PEG/PPG-41/3 Aminoethyl PG-Propyl Dimethicone
• Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone
• Bis-Cetearyl Amodimethicone
• Bis-Hydroxy/Methoxy Amodimethicone
• Bis-Phenylpropyl Dimethicone
• Cetearyl methicone
• Cetyl Dimethicone
• Cetyl PEG/PPG-15/15 Butyl Ether Dimethicone
• Cyclomethicone
• Cyclopentasiloxane
• Cyclopentasiloxane and C30-45 Alkyl Cetearyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer Cyclohexasiloxane
• Di-Isostearoyl Trimethylolpropane Siloxy Silicate
• Dimethicone
• Dimethicone Propyl PG-Betaine
• Dimethicone/Vinyldimethicone Crosspolymer
• Dimethiconol
• Diphenyl Dimethicone
• Disiloxane
• Divynildimethicone/Dimethicone Copolymer
• Hexamethyldisiloxane
• PCA Dimethicone
• Phenyl Trimethicone
• Phenylpropyldimethylsiloxysilicate
• Polysilicone-18 Cetyl Phosphate
• Silicone Quaternium-16
• Silicone Quaternium-18
• Silicone Quaternium-22
• Simethicone Stearoxy (or Stearyl) Dimethicone
• Stearoxy Dimethicone
• Stearyl Dimethicone
• Trimethyl Silylamodimethicone
• Trimethylsiloxyamodimethicone
• Trimethylsiloxysilicate
• Trimethylsiloxysilicate
• Trimethylsilylamodimethicone
• Trisiloxane

Waxes and non-natural oils that can cause buildup include:
• Bees wax
• Candelilla wax
• Mineral oil (paraffinum liquidum)
• Petrolatum

These ingredients are exceptions and are either water-soluble silicones (meaning they dissolve and rinse off with just water), look like silicones but are not, or are other ingredients that are safe to use with limited risk of buildup:
• Benzophenone-2, ( or 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
• DEA PG-Propyl PEG/PPG-18/21 Dimethicone
• Dimethicone Copolyol
• Dimethicone PEG-8 Phosphate
• Dimethicone-PG Diethylmonium Chloride
• Emulsifying Wax
• Hydrolyzed Silk PG-Propyl Methylsilanediol Crosspolymer
• Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
• Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol
• Hydrolyzed Wheat protein/hydroxypropyl polysiloxane and cystine/silicone co-polymers
• Lauryl methicone copolyol
• Lauryl PEG/PPG-18/18 Methicone
• Methychloroisothiazolinone
• Methylisothiazolinone
• Natural oils: Avocado oil, Olive oil, Coconut oil, etc.
• PEG/PPG-20/15 Dimethicone
• PEG-12 Dimethicone
• PEG-33 (and) PEG-8 Dimethicone (and) PEG-14
• PEG-40/PPG-8 Methylaminopropyl/Hydropropyl Dimethicone Copolymer
• PEG-7 Amodimethicone
• PEG-8 Disteramonium Chloride PG-Dimethicone
• PEG-Dimethicone
• PEG-Hydrogenated Castor Oil
• PPG-8 Methylaminopropyl, Hydroxypropyl Dimethicone Copolymer
• Silicone Quaternium-8
• Silicone Quaternium-17

4. Having bleach damaged hair, should I use coney or cone-free conditioners? Do coney conditioners prevent hair from taking in the moisture?

Having had immensely chemically damaged hair, I did better without cones. My hair also didn't like oils. I hypothesize that this is because oils like to grab onto protein and damaged hair is short on that. I personally did much better with salves and butters than with straight oils, but there are many different experiences here. Some people swear by cones, other oils. You should try a few things, giving each one a couple weeks, and see how it goes.

5. Any CO-washing conditioner recommendations or other tips?

My favorite was always V05 Chamomile Tea.

I hope that helps!

[lora410]

I don't have any advice other then I feel for you. Was rebellious to get a perm and look where I ended up. My hair was a bob with stacking in the back. Good news is it will grow back if worse comes to worse and you have to cut like I did. My hair was breaking off by the handfuls.

[animetor7]

I agree with lapushka and nightshade that you have a lot of build-up and that your hair needs protein, gummy hair is hair without enough protein, a common occurrence with damaged hair.

So first, you'll need to clarify any sulfate shampoo should work, ones specifically for clarifying might work faster but tend to be harsher which is not what you need on your hair right now. I'd stick with a regular sulfate containing shampoo and follow up with a protein and moisture treatment. I find cones to be helpful in protecting hair from damage, and also find that you can use water insoluble ones just fine as long as you clarify every now and then. So you can experiment both with them and without them and see what works best for you. For the time being I'd stay away from oils, especially coconut oil, because they can be kind of fiddly with already damaged hair. That is sometimes they'll help a lot, and sometimes they'll only make matters worse. Instead, I'd use aloe vera gel and conditioners that are specifically designed to be moisturizing (ones containing shea butter are often good). After clarifying, you can try doing CO again, but if your length still looks greasy, I'd switch to using a gentle, sulfate-free shampoo for non-clarifying washes. Shea Moisture is a good company that makes very gentle, sulfate-free shampoos.

Now, to help with preventing more damage. I would check all of the tools you use on your hair (combs, brushes, clips etc.) for seams or sharp edges, these can pull or rip the hair and cause more damage to your already damage hair. If you're not already using a wide-tooth comb or tangle teezer, I would also switch to one of those for detangling to help minimize further damage. And always detangle very gently!!! And as nightshade mentioned it's very important to keep damaged hair at least braided, but even better up. This is to prevent tangling and any more damage to your length. Updos are better because they keep fragile ends tucked away.

Finally, you might find microtrimming regularly along with S&D sessions will help your ends stay in better shape and will help you to slowly trim out damage while still gaining length.

I hope that helps!!! Please keep us updated on how your treatment goes or if anything just isn't working for you. We're happy to help troubleshoot!!!

[xoChesleyy]

Thanks for the response lapushka! Do you have any recommendations for a good protein treatment? Also, I actually feel as though my hair is more "waxy" rather than oily after being CO-washed...So it probably is build-up. As for the white dots, I don't pull at them unless I'm already S&Ding and then I will snip off the broken end. Good to know though!

Nightshade, thank you so much for the list! I just checked and the Aussie 3MM conditioner has cyclopentasiloxane and dimethicone. The Suave conditioner has dimethicone and amodimethicone. Looks like I'll have to find other options. I did not realize how much the physical damage could actually contribute! That does make sense though, seeing as my hair is already fragile. Are there any easy protective updos you recommend?

Thank you lora410! I am sorry that happened to you. It is good (while also unfortunate) knowing that others can relate to what I am currently dealing with. But good luck to you on your journey!

Animetor7, thanks so much for the advice! I was using coconut oil on my ends for awhile and it seemed to help (or at least appear to help) with the dryness but it did make my ends look oily so I haven't been using it as much.
When using it as a pre-wash treatment, I haven't noticed as much of a difference after washing like I used to so it may not be helping as much as I thought. Are there any DIY treatments that would work (i.e. raw honey)?
Also, how many times do you think I would need to use a sulfate shampoo before trying CO again, or would just one time be sufficient? How often is clarifying normally recommended?
I use the Mason Pearson detangling comb and I sometimes use metal-free hair elastics for tying off my hair when I braid it but as far as "tools" go that's the only things I use!
I will be sure to post an update tomorrow when I use the sulfate shampoo. Hopefully it helps!

[animetor7]

An SMT is a fantastic DIY treatment to add moisture, I'd do a protein treatment on your hair first though so it can "take" the moisture better. Here's a link to a thread about the SMT: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...read.php?t=128

As for how many times you'll need to clarify, I'd start with one time and see how your hair feels. If it still looks limp and greasy even when freshly washed I'd try clarifying again. I'd also recommend picking up some claw clips or a hair stick or fork as they are an easy way to get all your hair up in a protective and comfortable way. I also forgot to ask if you have hard water. Sometimes minerals can build-up on hair when you live in an area with hard water, in which case you'll probably need to chelate as well as clarify. But first, try clarifying and if it works, no need to chelate. There are loads of options for protective hairstyles, the main idea is that they don't require too much manipulation and they get all of your hair up so it can't get damaged. Here are two videos to get you started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7JuC1_Q_F4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJTQEX3WnZ0

Good luck!!!

[202_bh_rider]

1. Do you think the greasiness after showering is build-up? If so, what kind of clarifying shampoo should I try using and how often?

possibly. if you're using cones, it's very likely. i have medium thickness overall straight hair, and i find the not your mothers clean freak shampoo works well (but that could be different for you!). i think anything with sulfate works though, but maybe try going without cones for a while? i don't have the greasiness problem and hence wash my hair once a week, but i use it everytime my hair starts feeling super gross. so whenever i switch shampoo/conditioner or i get coney buildup.

2. A couple days after CO-washing, my hair (mostly my ends) gets dry again. Is this most likely from the bleach damage or should I try a different conditioner? Would coconut oil be beneficial to put on my ends daily or something else?

My ombré is almost grown out, but i know what struggle it is with dry, damaged, bleached ends. for me, anything with cones dehydrated my hair, so i switched to the Shea Moisture line and it really helped, the thicker the better for my hair. it's probably the bleach. id continue with the coconut oil as a pre wash, but feel free to experiment with oils. for some people, coconut oil makes their hair feel crunchy. i've heard a lot of people like shea butter for the heavier side and almond oil as a lighter one.
3. Are the cones used in Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner and Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist conditioner water soluble or can they cause build-up?

can't give you any advice here, sorry! i stick to the shea moisture line

4. Having bleach damaged hair, should I use coney or cone-free conditioners? Do coney conditioners prevent hair from taking in the moisture?

in my experience, cone free is the best option. for me, i do think they prevent hair from taking in moisture. but remember all hair is different

5. Any CO-washing conditioner recommendations or other tips?

anything that has sulfates will really really clean you're hair, and the natural products will help with moisturizing. tre-semme vitamin E conditioner is what i use for the cleaning power, but i use shea moisture if i'm looking to moisturize. hope this helps a little!

[xoChesleyy]

Animetor7, I actually have been wanting to try doing an SMT for awhile now but wasn't sure about what kind of aloe to use! I have been searching for an aloe plant but cannot seem to find any in my area.
However, I did find a product sold by my local Wal-Mart that has these ingredients: Organic Aloe Vera Gel, Citric Acid, Sodium Benzoate, (A Food Preservative At 1/10 Of 1%). Would that work?

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if we have hard water or not. But I'll take your advice and try clarifying first. Thank you for the links, they were a huge help. I will definitely be wearing my hair in protective styles from now on!
I do have another question if that's okay! Basically, I feel as though since my hair is bleach damaged I will benefit more from cones especially because my hair tangles very easily and needs extra slip. If natural conditioners such as SheaMoisture help add moisture to hair, could I possibly try using a regular cheap conditioner on my scalp, SheaMoisture conditioner on my length, and then use a silicone serum after the shower when my hair dries and see how that works? Or would I be better off sticking with regular coney conditioners (assuming that CO-washing works better for me after clarifying)? I am trying to find coney conditioners without ingredients that cause build-up, as the two I am currently using have cyclopentasiloxane, dimethicone, and amodimethicone. I was considering buying a conditioner with water soluble cones but they seem to be difficult to come by... Do you have any recommendations?

Thank you for your response as well 202_bh_rider! Before going entirely CO, I used to use the SheaMoisture Fruit Complex shampoo and conditioner. SheaMoisture's products smell wonderful and it's a plus that they're all natural.
Their lotions and body washes are great as well. As for sulfates-- I don't think my hair likes them very much. When I used them previously they seemed to be too drying for me!

[animetor7]

Animetor7, I actually have been wanting to try doing an SMT for awhile now but wasn't sure about what kind of aloe to use! I have been searching for an aloe plant but cannot seem to find any in my area.
However, I did find a product sold by my local Wal-Mart that has these ingredients: Organic Aloe Vera Gel, Citric Acid, Sodium Benzoate, (A Food Preservative At 1/10 Of 1%). Would that work?

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if we have hard water or not. But I'll take your advice and try clarifying first. Thank you for the links, they were a huge help. I will definitely be wearing my hair in protective styles from now on!
I do have another question if that's okay! Basically, I feel as though since my hair is bleach damaged I will benefit more from cones especially because my hair tangles very easily and needs extra slip. If natural conditioners such as SheaMoisture help add moisture to hair, could I possibly try using a regular cheap conditioner on my scalp, SheaMoisture conditioner on my length, and then use a silicone serum after the shower when my hair dries and see how that works? Or would I be better off sticking with regular coney conditioners (assuming that CO-washing works better for me after clarifying)? I am trying to find coney conditioners without ingredients that cause build-up, as the two I am currently using have cyclopentasiloxane, dimethicone, and amodimethicone. I was considering buying a conditioner with water soluble cones but they seem to be difficult to come by... Do you have any recommendations?

Yup, that aloe vera gel sounds fine to me. I usually just buy the whatever clear aloe vera gel is cheapest at my grocery store. Just make sure you do a protein treatment before doing an SMT, if you have hair that's losing moisture really quickly and snaps easily you'll need a protein treatment before the SMT will be able to help much. You'll have to either look around the forum or ask one of our other lovely members how they go about doing protein treatments though because my hair has never needed one, so I don't know how to go about making or buying one.

As for water soluble cones, I don't really worry about making sure all the cones I use are water soluble, so I never check and I'm sure there are plenty of water insoluble cones in my conditioners and such. I've never had any problems using these cones provided I clarify regularly, how regularly will depend on your hair, how often you use cones and how much and lots of other factors. For example I wash my hair once a week and therefore only use cones once a week, and clarify anywhere from once a month to once every 3 months depending on how my hair feels. You may need to clarify more or less often depending on your specific hair and circumstances.

Good luck!! And let us know if the clarifying helped at all!!