Unsure if I should give CO a try...

**Kat** · June 6th, 2021, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by lapushka

Begs the question. What did you use in college days, Starbunny. You said it's 11 years ago, and I don't think they had the marketed "CO-washes" back then. Just plain old conditioner. If you are planning on going back to it, try and use the same products you did then. Sometimes the products matter!

I don't think they did, either. I'm still trying to figure out where those came from. AFAIK, a CO wash was a long-hair thing (I assume not just an LHC thing, though), and then I started seeing commercial "co-wash" products and seeing other people talking about it (and spent a lot of time going, "IT'S NOT CO-WASH LIKE YOU HAVE A COWORKER OR A CODEPENDENCY! IT'S C-O WASH, AS IN CONDITIONER-ONLY!" lol). Where did all these companies get it and suddenly decide it was a good idea? What's in these special "co wash" products that isn't in the regular light, cheap conditioners people have been using for years?

**lapushka** · June 7th, 2021, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Kat

I don't think they did, either. I'm still trying to figure out where those came from. AFAIK, a CO wash was a long-hair thing (I assume not just an LHC thing, though), and then I started seeing commercial "co-wash" products and seeing other people talking about it (and spent a lot of time going, "IT'S NOT CO-WASH LIKE YOU HAVE A COWORKER OR A CODEPENDENCY! IT'S C-O WASH, AS IN CONDITIONER-ONLY!" lol). Where did all these companies get it and suddenly decide it was a good idea? What's in these special "co wash" products that isn't in the regular light, cheap conditioners people have been using for years?

A very very mild surfactant, mostly.

**Kat** · June 7th, 2021, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by lapushka

A very very mild surfactant, mostly.

My understanding was that a surfactant is how conditioners clean, though?

(I mean, I know: companies saw they could market it and of course had to make a "special" product and most people won't realize they can grab their generic V05/Suave/White Rain off the shelf for less than a buck...)

**Ylva** · June 8th, 2021, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Kat

My understanding was that a surfactant is how conditioners clean, though?

(I mean, I know: companies saw they could market it and of course had to make a "special" product and most people won't realize they can grab their generic V05/Suave/White Rain off the shelf for less than a buck...)

Surfactants are cleansing ingredients such as sulfates and milder things. The cleaning power of conditioners comes from emulsifiers, which make it possible for water and oil to mix.

**lapushka** · June 8th, 2021, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ylva

Surfactants are cleansing ingredients such as sulfates and milder things. The cleaning power of conditioners comes from emulsifiers, which make it possible for water and oil to mix.

Never worked for me though, or... I'm too oily. I need a surfactant. It is what it is.

**Kat** · June 8th, 2021, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ylva

Surfactants are cleansing ingredients such as sulfates and milder things. The cleaning power of conditioners comes from emulsifiers, which make it possible for water and oil to mix.

Hm. I was told once-- I think here-- that conditioners are surfactants and that's how they clean.

**neko_kawaii** · June 8th, 2021, 08:01 PM

Surfactant appears to be a general purpose word and includes emulsifiers. Wikipedia.

Surfactants are compounds that lower the surface tension (or interfacial tension) between two liquids, between a gas and a liquid, or between a liquid and a solid. Surfactants may act as detergents, wetting agents, emulsifiers, foaming agents, or dispersants.

**lapushka** · June 9th, 2021, 02:13 PM

Meh, maybe bad word choice on my part. I always thought, mistakenly so it now appears, that conditioners had no detergents, hence no surfactants.

**Kat** · June 9th, 2021, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by lapushka

Meh, maybe bad word choice on my part. I always thought, mistakenly so it now appears, that conditioners had no detergents, hence no surfactants.

Whereas I'm pretty sure that when it was explained to me all that time ago, the person said shampoos had detergents, whereas conditioners had surfactants, and that was the difference...

**PeonyBlue** · June 11th, 2021, 02:47 AM

Hi all, I was going to write a big geeky post on surfactants, as I’ve been doing a lot of research recently while making my own shampoos and conditioners. But then I thought, this post explains it really well: https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlr...-care-products

TLDR? Basically, both detergents and conditioners are surfactants (ie break the surface tension of water & attract oils & help to remove dirt that way). However detergents/shampoos are anionic (similar charge to hair) and so attract those things that cling to hair and then wash away. Conditioners are cationic and so tend to bind more to hair (think like magnets), and so only the excess product tends to wash stuff away…some may still be left behind.