Clean, organic, vegan S&C

[Amber_Maiden]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently on WO, but just in case it doesn't work, I figured I'd ask now-

I'm wondering if anyone knows of a very clean (as in very few chemicals), pure (as in ingredients that are as natural and as close to their original form as possible/not synthetic ingredients), alcohol free, cone free and vegan? Also, my hair doesn't care for protein much...

My scalp can't stand products that contain harder chemicals, like SLS, parabens, etc. Those are not an option for me. I don't mind spending money on a better S&C, as long as it's good.

I've looked into Phyto (but it contains SLS and some other things I don't like).
I've tried Live Clean (made me scalp react badly), Prairie Naturals (too much protein), Oneka (very good, very clean and pure, and local- BUT the Conditioner wasn't heavy enough).
I'm currently looking into the Morrocco Method line- SCRATCH THAT- just read a bunch of bad reviews, also way too expensive.

I have dry hair. It's thick and long. It likes heavy conditioner. I don't use or like shampoo much, but use lots of conditioner. I stretch my washes, which is why I don't mind spending a lot of money on the S & C.

Anyone with any ideas?

[aisha.christine]

I believe Desert Essence Organics are vegan. I used their moisturizing S&C and I loved it. Here's the link. (http://desertessence.com/hair-care/coconut-shampoo)
All their "chemicals" are naturally derived, and it is 'cone free (if you're cone free)
Hope I got the vegan part right :o
ETA: Just checked the back of the bottle. It's 100% Vegan, Wheat and Gluten Free. No Parabens, Sodium Laurel/Laureth Sulfates, Phthalates, Artificial Colors, Silicones, EDTA, Glycol or Petroleum based products.

[AlabasterAlice]

Have you looked into Everyday Shea? I just got their set of S&C the other day and they have very few ingredients, none of which raise any red flags for my hair (which also happens to hate protein). I am not sure if they are vegan or not though. They are certified fair trade but that is the only thing I can find. Maybe someone who is a vegan would be able to look at the ingredients and say if they are vegan or not? Sorry, that is just not my area of expertise.

I will say that I got them on vitacost for a good price thanks to the sale they ran/are running on beauty products. I think they were around $14 for each 32 oz bottle. I plan on mixing both of them with both herbs and tea so they will have a long life for me, and therefore should be less of a drag on my wallet.

[fauxyeti]

Have you looked at the vegan range from Lush (http://www.lushusa.com/shop)?

[ouseljay]

I ran into the Beautiful Curls line at Whole Foods a few months ago. It seems to meet all of your requirements, though they don't mention organic specifically. It's fair trade, too. Their website is here http://www.beautifulcurls.com I really liked it on principle, but the leave-in conditioner for wavy hair wasn't quite right for me. Boo.

Edit: Beautiful Curls and Everyday Shea are made by the same company, Alaffia. http://alaffia.com/ I keep wanting to try Everyday Shea, but I balk at buying such a huge bottle.

[Amber_Maiden]

I believe Desert Essence Organics are vegan. I used their moisturizing S&C and I loved it. Here's the link. (http://desertessence.com/hair-care/coconut-shampoo)
All their "chemicals" are naturally derived, and it is 'cone free (if you're cone free)
Hope I got the vegan part right :o
ETA: Just checked the back of the bottle. It's 100% Vegan, Wheat and Gluten Free. No Parabens, Sodium Laurel/Laureth Sulfates, Phthalates, Artificial Colors, Silicones, EDTA, Glycol or Petroleum based products.

I actually like the look of it- except for that it includes alcohol! :(




Have you looked into Everyday Shea? I just got their set of S&C the other day and they have very few ingredients, none of which raise any red flags for my hair (which also happens to hate protein). I am not sure if they are vegan or not though. They are certified fair trade but that is the only thing I can find. Maybe someone who is a vegan would be able to look at the ingredients and say if they are vegan or not? Sorry, that is just not my area of expertise.

I will say that I got them on vitacost for a good price thanks to the sale they ran/are running on beauty products. I think they were around $14 for each 32 oz bottle. I plan on mixing both of them with both herbs and tea so they will have a long life for me, and therefore should be less of a drag on my wallet.

I'll check it out! My hair doesn't really like shea butter, but maybe the shampoo and conditioner would be different.


Have you looked at the vegan range from Lush (http://www.lushusa.com/shop)?

Contains SLS, and a couple of other things that aren't that great. I have tried it in the past, before I knew about my allergies.


I ran into the Beautiful Curls line at Whole Foods a few months ago. It seems to meet all of your requirements, though they don't mention organic specifically. It's fair trade, too. Their website is here http://www.beautifulcurls.com I really liked it on principle, but the leave-in conditioner for wavy hair wasn't quite right for me. Boo.

Edit: Beautiful Curls and Everyday Shea are made by the same company, Alaffia. http://alaffia.com/ I keep wanting to try Everyday Shea, but I balk at buying such a huge bottle.

I'll check it out as well! :)

[NaiadOreiad]

My hair hates alcohol too. UNTIL i found out that Cetyl alcohol is a fatty natural derived alcohol and it is much less stripping for my hair. I use the logona bier and honey (and sometimes their caffeine and goji ) shampoo. There is an urtekram rose condish with VERY few ingredients that is wonderful on my ends.

[jaine]

I was about to suggest Sevi or John Masters Organics ...they both have really high ingredient standards...but they might be too expensive. :( they also both have shampoo that's free of coco betaine in addition to being SLS free (which makes a difference to my hair.) shampoo can be diluted to last months and months so that probably doesn't matter much....but conditioner price matters a lot.

I think Whole Foods has a lot of choices that aren't too expensive but I haven't tried them all...unfortunately i didn't like the ones I tried so far. I didn't like aubrey organics or everyday shea...it left something waxy on my hair and I didn't like the way my hair felt. Avalon Organics has a relatively inexpensive conditioner that I'm using for CWC at the moment but not as a final conditioner because it's also leaving something waxy on my hair. Gosh...I'm picky!

I keep picking up the less expensive brands hoping I'll like them but then I go back to sevi or John Masters because I like those the best.

[Amber_Maiden]

My hair hates alcohol too. UNTIL i found out that Cetyl alcohol is a fatty natural derived alcohol and it is much less stripping for my hair. I use the logona bier and honey (and sometimes their caffeine and goji ) shampoo. There is an urtekram rose condish with VERY few ingredients that is wonderful on my ends.

Looked it up. Not sure if it's as clean as I'd like it to be. Thank you though!

[FrozenBritannia]

Have you looked into shampoo bars at all?

[moxamoll]

I'm with FrozenBritanna - I was sceptical about shampoo bars, but I figured if I was testing I should be thorough and hey - that's what samples are for! I like 'em! I've tried three from Henna Sooq so far: Pure Carrot, Soapnut and Sweet Honey. The honey is my fav, the soapnut is VERY minty, so I've saving it for the summer. The carrot is ok, but difficult to lather up and use. They also sent me a "gift" Argan oil one, but since I'm allergic, that's no good. :p

[Amber_Maiden]

Have you looked into shampoo bars at all?

Yes I've looked into them. I tried them twice, and my hair hated them. I plan on just diluting whatever shampoo I get, it's the conditioner I really need.

[rock007junkie]

You might want to consider Terressentials to wash. It a mud that also detoxifies the hair. I'm having wonderful results with it.

[Amber_Maiden]

I was about to suggest Sevi or John Masters Organics ...they both have really high ingredient standards...but they might be too expensive. :( they also both have shampoo that's free of coco betaine in addition to being SLS free (which makes a difference to my hair.) shampoo can be diluted to last months and months so that probably doesn't matter much....but conditioner price matters a lot.

I keep picking up the less expensive brands hoping I'll like them but then I go back to sevi or John Masters because I like those the best.

I'll check it out!


You might want to consider Terressentials to wash. It a mud that also detoxifies the hair. I'm having wonderful results with it.

Ohhhh.... Looks pretty good!!! Thank you!!!:D

[Maelyssa]

Never used the Everyday Shea but I did just check it out in the store. Would fit your requirements and it's a HUGE bottle. Also, I know some members use Earthly Delights and again, fits the bill. Good luck!

[slz]

Have you considered the indian herbs alternative (shikakai, amla, soapnut ...) ?

[Amber_Maiden]

Have you considered the indian herbs alternative (shikakai, amla, soapnut ...) ?

Very interested in them, actually. I'm trying to get more info on them.

[jeanniet]

Western herbs are another possibility you could consider--soapwort, yucca, etc., along with conditioning herbs. I never thought I could get along without creamy conditioners, but I rarely use them now. If I need particular help with detangling, I use a spritz of oil/water mix, but usually I don't even need that. Or you could simply use a homemade herbal shampoo with a conventional conditioner. The good thing about making your own is that you know for absolute certain exactly what goes in the mix.

[Dark Rapunzel]

What about Earthly Delights? I tried a bottle of each a year ago. I found the shampoo to be a little stripping for my hair, but the conditioner is heavenly!!! I got mine from Willner Chemists: http://www.willner.com/products.aspx

I enjoyed their products a whole lot, and I'm planning on getting a bottle of conditioner again!
They have a "growth stimulator" which I am skeptical of, but I bought it and it is a wonderful treatment for dry ends. It's heavy though, so I don't use a lot of it.

[Annibelle]

I use both Beautiful Curls (shampoo and leave-in for wavy hair) and Everyday Shea (wash-out conditioner). I think both fit the description you mentioned, EXCEPT being very moisturizing. :p The Beautiful Curls shampoo isn't stripping, as it's soap-based, and leaves the perfect amount of moisture in my hair when I'm done. The leave-in is nice for me. Both smell like babies-- in a good way. :) I use the Everyday Shea as a CO conditioner. It works as the cleansing conditioner AND the moisturizing conditioner for me, but it doesn't work as EITHER for SO, whose length doesn't get enough moisture from it and whose roots got oily from it.

[Diamond.Eyes]

Aubrey Organics makes shampoos and conditioners that are 100% natural and vegan. It even says so on the back of my bottles :p. They don't test on animals, the product is biodegradable, and the bottle itself is made out of 100% recycled material. My favorite product of theirs is the honeysuckle and rose conditioner. It can also be used to deep condition because of how rich it is. The ingredients are: Coconut fatty acid cream base, organic aloe vera, organic shea butter, wheat germ oil, organic jojoba oil, organic rosa mosqueta rose hip seed oil; extracts of fennel, hops, balm mint, mistletoe, camomile, yarrow, chrysanthemum, angelica, forsythia and magnolia; honeysuckle oil, carrot oil, aubreys preservative (citrus seed extract, vitamins A, C and E).
It's very pure and natural and I feel very luxurious when I use it lol!

ETA: Also, it is 'cone and SLS free and contains no parabens or petrochemicals. :)

[PixxieStix]

Have you taken a look at Toadstools shampoo and conditioner? She has rave reviews, and it looks like most of her products meet your requirements (obviously the ones with honey in them won't) http://www.etsy.com/shop/toadstoolsoaps?section_id=7280216&page=2

I want to try her stuff out myself, plan on ordering her shampoo and conditioner next time I start running out. Or, you know, if I get bit by the "try something new" bug!

[Amber_Maiden]

Have you taken a look at Toadstools shampoo and conditioner? She has rave reviews, and it looks like most of her products meet your requirements (obviously the ones with honey in them won't) http://www.etsy.com/shop/toadstoolsoaps?section_id=7280216&page=2

I want to try her stuff out myself, plan on ordering her shampoo and conditioner next time I start running out. Or, you know, if I get bit by the "try something new" bug!

I have! I thought her products were awesome! BUT it costs more to ship to me then the product itself :(

[Vanilla]

Aubrey Organics makes shampoos and conditioners that are 100% natural and vegan. It even says so on the back of my bottles :p. They don't test on animals, the product is biodegradable, and the bottle itself is made out of 100% recycled material. My favorite product of theirs is the honeysuckle and rose conditioner. It can also be used to deep condition because of how rich it is. The ingredients are: Coconut fatty acid cream base, organic aloe vera, organic shea butter, wheat germ oil, organic jojoba oil, organic rosa mosqueta rose hip seed oil; extracts of fennel, hops, balm mint, mistletoe, camomile, yarrow, chrysanthemum, angelica, forsythia and magnolia; honeysuckle oil, carrot oil, aubreys preservative (citrus seed extract, vitamins A, C and E).
It's very pure and natural and I feel very luxurious when I use it lol!

ETA: Also, it is 'cone and SLS free and contains no parabens or petrochemicals. :)

I second the Aubrey organics! I love their chamomile shampoo.

[holothuroidea]

I hope you find the one that is right for you! It is so frustrating. I just spent 40 minutes in the "natural" aisle of Target reading product labels looking for a protein treatment and my head is spinning. :wacko:

Anyway, my favorite is Yes to Carrots. They also have Yes to Cucumbers and Yes to Tomatoes, but the Carrots one is the most moisturizing. I don't think it fits your criteria, though.

Searching for the right S&C is exhausting and aggravating, and it reminds me of why I wanted to go WO in the first place. Eventually I just had to settle because my scalp was protesting in the form of bleeding sores and ejecting clumps of hair. Stupid scalp.

[Diamond.Eyes]

I second the Aubrey organics! I love their chamomile shampoo.

Oh my goodness, me too! It's amazing! I keep purchasing a bunch of their stuff. They are by far my fav. :)

[Cloelia]

Another vote for Aubrey Organics here! I like their shampoo, but I LOVE the conditioner. If money is not so big a deal and you like heavy conditioners, I recommend the Rosa Mosqueta conditioner. It is lovely.
INGREDIENTS: Coconut Fatty Acid Cream Base, Coltsfoot Extract, Horsetail Extract, Organic Rosa Mosqueta® Rose Hip Seed Oil, St. John’s Wort Oil, Wheat Germ Oil, Organic Aloe Vera, Amino Acid Complex (Cysteine, Methionine), Organic Evening Primrose Oil, Balsam Oil; Extracts of Fennel, Hops, Balm Mint, Mistletoe, Camomile and Yarrow; Organic Rosemary Oil, Organic Sage Oil, Carrot Oil, Aubrey’s Preservative (Citrus Seed Extract, Vitamins A, C and E)

[JaneinMarch]

I like Grandpa's pine tar soap for my hair and body. I prepoo with coconut oil and it doesn't dry my hair out.

[Libbylou]

To all the Aubrey Organics fans, are there any chains stores that stocks their products or do I have to order online. I have been wanting to try the shampoos and I am running low on my current Natures Gate.

[bouclée]

I don't know if you can find these brands in Canada, but Melvita and Lavera are natural and organic certified and have a large range of S and C.
Also, have you tried adding a bit of honey or oil (depending if what your hair needs most) into a conditioner to make it heavier it?

As far as Morrocco Method products are concerned, I tried them in the past and honestly found quality did not match the very high price! Plus I found their conditioner is not moisturizing enough (and my hair is not very dry!).

Anyway, good luck in your research (and I hope WO will work for you!)

[morrigan*]

I like Avalon organics conditioner, i found that diluating it helps to last a bit longer.

[ktani]

The definition of clean and organic re cosmetics is not as simple as it sounds or as some cosmetic companies make it sound by far. See the last section on preservatives, http://personalcaretruth.com/2010/08/petrochemicals-confusion-and-hypocrisy/.

ETA: There is much more to it and something not to forget, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1884105&postcount=4

Cosmetic petrochemicals are safe.

[Amber_Maiden]

The definition of clean and organic re cosmetics is not as simple as it sounds or as some cosmetic companies make it sound by far. See the last section on preservatives, http://personalcaretruth.com/2010/08/petrochemicals-confusion-and-hypocrisy/.

Thank you for the link ktani.

I'm looking for a much simpler S & C... like something that has food grade ingredients. I guess this is why I'm more drawn to morrocco method and terressentials.

[ktani]

Too true ktani. Good link.

I'm looking for a much simpler S & C... like something that has food grade ingredients. I guess this is why I'm more drawn to morrocco method and terressentials.

I totally get where you are coming from. I just do not think it is realistic. Cosmetics need preservation. Cosmetics need to work well. Or make your own and use them up quickly.

ETA: I also wanted to make my own shampoo - from plants - I could not find one that would work well - for me it was control over not having to rely on cosmetic manufacturers for what I needed. I compromised. I use Sunsilk Lively Blonde Shampoo and catnip as my colour/conditioner.

[Amber_Maiden]

I totally get where you are coming from. I just do not think it is realistic. Cosmetics need preservation. Cosmetics need to work well. Or make your own and use them up quickly.

ETA: I also wanted to make my own shampoo - from plants - I could not find one that would work well - for me it was control over not having to rely on cosmetic manufacturers for what I needed. I compromised. I use Sunsilk Lively Blonde Shampoo and catnip as my colour/conditioner.


I think some shampoos, like clay ones, don't need preservatives to keep them. I might end up making my own anyways, it would be cheaper. I don't think I can compromise on what I put in my hair though, just because of my lifestyle and what I'm allergic to.

[ktani]

I think some shampoos, like clay ones, don't need preservatives to keep them. I might end up making my own anyways, it would be cheaper. I don't think I can compromise on what I put in my hair though, just because of my lifestyle and what I'm allergic to.

Clay as shampoo has its own issues - mineral coatings that are not removed by acidic rinses and clays can be abrasive - not the best thing for hair cuticles.

Having a super sensitive scalp now because of a badly formulated conditioner I used years ago, I empathize. This is not easy.

[holothuroidea]

I totally get where you are coming from. I just do not think it is realistic. Cosmetics need preservation. Cosmetics need to work well. Or make your own and use them up quickly.

ETA: I also wanted to make my own shampoo - from plants - I could not find one that would work well - for me it was control over not having to rely on cosmetic manufacturers for what I needed. I compromised. I use Sunsilk Lively Blonde Shampoo and catnip as my colour/conditioner.

I agree with you to a point. Everyone has their own level of comfort with these things, and some people are willing to sacrifice the effectiveness of a product in the interest of doing what they believe is the right thing for the well being of animals/ the environment/their health/their skin.

Mineral oil is natural, safe and effective, but it is not a sustainable material. I personally believe we should save petrochemicals for the things we need them for, like medical applications and necessary plastics for which there is no alternative material.

"Clean, organic, vegan, healthy, sustainable" are all subjective terms and often have deep personal meanings to the person who uses them which might not be the same as yours.

[ktani]

I agree with you to a point. Everyone has their own level of comfort with these things, and some people are willing to sacrifice the effectiveness of a product in the interest of doing what they believe is the right thing for the well being of animals/ the environment/their health/their skin.

Mineral oil is natural, safe and effective, but it is not a sustainable material. I personally believe we should save petrochemicals for the things we need them for, like medical applications and necessary plastics for which there is no alternative material.

"Clean, organic, vegan, healthy, sustainable" are all subjective terms and often have deep personal meanings to the person who uses them which might not be the same as yours.

And I agree with you to a point. Cosmetic petrochemicals do not make up a percentage which challenges sustainability in my opinion and plastics in many cases can be replaced at home for example with glass.

I do not expect others to subscribe to my beliefs. I do believe that people should have information that is based on fact, not marketing, to be able to make their own informed decisions.

[Amber_Maiden]

And I agree with you to a point. Cosmetic petrochemicals do not make up a percentage which challenges sustainability in my opinion and plastics in many cases can be replaced at home for example with glass.

I do not expect others to subscribe to my beliefs. I do believe that people should have information that is based on fact, not marketing, to be able to make their own informed decisions.

I don't buy into marketing- I buy/vote with my money by buying what works. Period. And what fits with my lifestyle, what I think is clean/organic, etc. People do what works for them and their needs.

[ktani]

I don't buy into marketing- I buy/vote with my money by buying what works. Period. And what fits with my lifestyle, what I think is clean/organic, etc. People do what works for them and their needs.

To me, that is the way it should be. The difficulty for some is that marketing is so effective, seeing it for what it is can be very difficult.

ETA: Until I found that link, for example, I knew potassium sorbate alone is not effective enough to be the single cosmetic preservative used in most cases. I did not know that petrochemicals were involved in processing it.

[Amber_Maiden]

To me, that is the way it should be. The difficulty for some is that marketing is so effective, seeing it for what it is can be very difficult.

I agree. Many people buy into a brand before doing research, or thinking about where the ingredients come from, or why they want it (impulse buying).

[holothuroidea]

And I agree with you to a point. Cosmetic petrochemicals do not make up a percentage which challenges sustainability in my opinion and plastics in many cases can be replaced at home for example with glass.

I do not expect others to subscribe to my beliefs. I do believe that people should have information that is based on fact, not marketing, to be able to make their own informed decisions.

Well those replaceable plastics are obviously not the plastic applications I was talking about.

I agree that the natural/organic marketing is in most cases misleading. I also believe that many synthetic additives are more helpful than harmful but I understand that not everyone sees it that way.

[ktani]

Well those replaceable plastics are obviously not the plastic applications I was talking about.

I agree that the natural/organic marketing is in most cases misleading. I also believe that many synthetic additives are more helpful than harmful but I understand that not everyone sees it that way.

I remember debates on plastics and their use from years ago and before a number of other chemicals in their production were seen as toxic and are being removed from them now. Cutting back on any and all unnecessary sources of petrochemicals is a real concern for many. I get that. However, as I said, I do not think the amount used in cosmetics is where cutting back needs to start.

[Amber_Maiden]

I remember debates on plastics and their use from years ago and before a number of other chemicals in their production were seen as toxic and are being removed from them now. Cutting back on any and all unnecessary sources of petrochemicals is a real concern for many. I get that. However, as I said, I do not think the amount used in cosmetics is where cutting back needs to start.

I agree that things have to change regarding petrochemicals, but I see no harm with starting with things we put in and on our bodies. Vote with your money to create the change you want to see happen- it's seems to be the only thing the government and companies respond the most to.

[ktani]

I agree that things have to change regarding petrochemicals, but I see no harm with starting with things we put in and on our bodies. Vote with your money to create the change you want to see happen- it's seems to be the only thing the government and companies respond the most to.

No, no harm. However, given that percentage, to me it has no real impact on the sustanability one is trying to affect. That is also to me a result of the effect of marketing. I agree with the article.

[Annibelle]

I hope you find the one that is right for you! It is so frustrating. I just spent 40 minutes in the "natural" aisle of Target reading product labels looking for a protein treatment and my head is spinning. :wacko:

Anyway, my favorite is Yes to Carrots. They also have Yes to Cucumbers and Yes to Tomatoes, but the Carrots one is the most moisturizing. I don't think it fits your criteria, though.

Searching for the right S&C is exhausting and aggravating, and it reminds me of why I wanted to go WO in the first place. Eventually I just had to settle because my scalp was protesting in the form of bleeding sores and ejecting clumps of hair. Stupid scalp.

I bought Yes to Carrots, and didn't realize until I got home that my nose hadn't been working right while I was in the store. I got home, took a whiff, and the perfume in it was sooo strong! It smelled like bug spray. :o I was sneezing the rest of the day. I wanted it to work, but I knew I couldn't use it or my allergies would drive me nuts all day. I returned it-- Target is very good about returns. :)

That's what I love about the Beautiful Curls lines-- the scents are from the ingredients (i.e. chamomile and ylang ylang instead of a "perfume" or "fragrance").


To all the Aubrey Organics fans, are there any chains stores that stocks their products or do I have to order online. I have been wanting to try the shampoos and I am running low on my current Natures Gate.

I haven't tried it yet, but I do see it at Whole Foods when I go there. (I think!) :)

[Amber_Maiden]

No, no harm. However, given that percentage, to me it has no real impact on the sustanability one is trying to affect. That is also to me a result of the effect of marketing. I agree with the article.

Of course mainstream society is going to buy into what's current. Most people think hair products like Pantene's Green line is organic, natural, pure etc. To them it's great, the best they can get, and they think they are helping the environment, helping to make change. To me- it's not green, it's not organic, and it's not pure. To me, it's the same as walking past bread in a grocery store (I have celiac disease, gluten could kill me, and to me regular bread is garbage, it's toxic).
So, do I think that there are many people like me out there who think in terms of getting the purest, most natural, stuff they can get? No. I also don't think there are many people out there who are willing to leave their comfort zone; many just want immediate gratification. Most people would rather ignore ingredients and just put whatever on and in their bodies, but I don't and won't do that.

[ktani]

Of course mainstream society is going to buy into what's current. Most people think hair products like Pantene's Green line is organic, natural, pure etc. To them it's great, the best they can get, and they think they are helping the environment, helping to make change. To me- it's not green, it's not organic, and it's not pure. To me, it's the same as walking past bread in a grocery store (I have celiac disease, gluten could kill me, and to me regular bread is garbage, it's toxic).
So, do I think that there are many people like me out there who think in terms of getting the purest, most natural, stuff they can get? No. I also don't think there are many people out there who are willing to leave their comfort zone; many just want immediate gratification. Most people would rather ignore ingredients and just put whatever on and in their bodies, but I don't and won't do that.

I understand your concerns and admire your determination.

What I was trying to point out was that if everyone stopped use of most if not all cosmetics made with any sort of processing that involved petrochemicals, or contained cosmetic grade petrochemicals, the impact on sustainability would hardly be noticeable.

The sustainability issue is much greater than that.

[Amber_Maiden]

I understand your concerns and admire your determination.

What I was trying to point out was that if everyone stopped use of most if not all cosmetics made with any sort of processing that involved petrochemicals, or contained cosmetic grade petrochemicals, the impact on sustainability would hardly be noticeable.

The sustainability issue is much greater than that.

Of course it it is much bigger than just the cosmetic industry. I'm just an optimist though... I believe in /hope for change, even if it comes in small ways, through small practices.

[ktani]

Of course it it is much bigger than just the cosmetic industry. I'm just an optimist though... I believe in /hope for change, even if it comes in small ways, through small practices.

I agree. I think that if other, more far reaching changes were made, there would be enough resources to accomodate the extremely small percentage needed for cosmetics though, with no sacrifices necessary for product effectiveness.

[ktani]

Actually I am going to restate this. If the article is correct, http://personalcaretruth.com/2010/08/petrochemicals-confusion-and-hypocrisy/ and I have no reason to doubt it, the percentage given for petrochemical production used for the cosmetic industry is ".1%".
ETA: Correction - "less than 0.1%"

That is no impact on sustainability at all.

[holothuroidea]

I bought Yes to Carrots, and didn't realize until I got home that my nose hadn't been working right while I was in the store. I got home, took a whiff, and the perfume in it was sooo strong! It smelled like bug spray. :o I was sneezing the rest of the day. I wanted it to work, but I knew I couldn't use it or my allergies would drive me nuts all day. I returned it-- Target is very good about returns. :)

That's what I love about the Beautiful Curls lines-- the scents are from the ingredients (i.e. chamomile and ylang ylang instead of a "perfume" or "fragrance").

Yes to Carrots has disclosed their fragrance ingredients, you can find them here. (http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/product/366278/Yes_To_Carrots_Pampering_Conditioner/) You have to scroll down past the comments section to find them.

The smell you are complaining of is probably the Linalool, which is ubiquitous and famous for covering up funky smells like bug spray. It's a skin sensitizer but if you don't have issues with that it is mostly harmless.

If you have a sensitive nose you'll notice the funky smell under the fragrance in Yes to Carrots. It's from the herbal ingredients and they use the fragrance to mask it. I've noticed this in most of Garnier's products, too.

I am fairly comfortable with synthetic fragrance ingredients because I know a lot about them . If I didn't, I wouldn't be OK with using Yes to Carrots either. I still much prefer natural smells, only on the basis that they smell way better.

I don't like the way it smells either but I like the other ingredients and the price is right so there you go. lol, I agree that it is not the best choice but it works for me for now. I am looking into Aubrey organics. I hate to have things shipped to me, though, and I can't find it anywhere. Honestly I am going to try to switch to herbal products so using Yes to Carrots or any commercial product is just a small part of trying to get a routine down and I don't plan on using them for any length of time.

[Vanilla]

To all the Aubrey Organics fans, are there any chains stores that stocks their products or do I have to order online. I have been wanting to try the shampoos and I am running low on my current Natures Gate.

Whole Foods carries the Aubrey Organics line, at least by me. Check it out!

[ktani]

Sustainable Cosmetics Debates 2011
http://newhope360.com/news/sustainable-cosmetics-summit-debates-greenwashing-and-false-marketing-claims
"Highlighting the complexity of using plant-based materials, Peter Becker from Evonik described how a petrochemical-based emulsion can have a lower environmental footprint than a plant-based one. ... the manner of growing and processing feedstock has a major bearing on the environmental footprint of the finished ingredient."

"environmental footprint"
http://www.evfit.com/footprint.htm

In other words, an alternative to petrochemicals can have more of a negative environmental impact, that that made by using petrochemicals.

[holothuroidea]

Whole Foods carries the Aubrey Organics line, at least by me. Check it out!

That's good and also bad. Good that it's local and I can check it out but still :( I dislike that store, I've never had good luck there. My DH calls it, "Whole Paycheck."

[amantha]

Sustainable Cosmetics Debates 2011
http://newhope360.com/news/sustainable-cosmetics-summit-debates-greenwashing-and-false-marketing-claims
"Highlighting the complexity of using plant-based materials, Peter Becker from Evonik described how a petrochemical-based emulsion can have a lower environmental footprint than a plant-based one. ... the manner of growing and processing feedstock has a major bearing on the environmental footprint of the finished ingredient."

"environmental footprint"
http://www.evfit.com/footprint.htm

In other words, an alternative to petrochemicals can have more of a negative environmental impact, that that made by using petrochemicals.


^^This. As someone who majored in ecology and studied it for over 6 years (and plan on going to grad school for conservation), just because something is organic or natural does not necessarily mean it's production is good for the environment overall. Sure it's wonderful to not use chemicals and pesticides, but how far away it is being shipped from, and the means used to synthesize the product can often have a huge carbon footprint. On the other hand, you have to balance that with what you want your body to come into contact with.

Ktani, I always love your responses because you always back up your ideas with scientific literature. :)

[ktani]

^^This. As someone who majored in ecology and studied it for over 6 years (and plan on going to grad school for conservation), just because something is organic or natural does not necessarily mean it's production is good for the environment overall. Sure it's wonderful to not use chemicals and pesticides, but how far away it is being shipped from, and the means used to synthesize the product can often have a huge carbon footprint. On the other hand, you have to balance that with what you want your body to come into contact with.

Ktani, I always love your responses because you always back up your ideas with scientific literature. :)

Thank you.

I want to know all sides of an issue and I can only do that by checking them out (as to facts not personal experiences). I also trust very few kinds of sources.

[rossjen]

After a bit of searching on the web, I found this Organic Excellence shampoo and conditioner. I believe it's vegan, but not totally sure, the ingredients list looks ok (again unsure whether it is the complete listing.) Link:
http://www.organicexcellence.com/chemical-free-products/mint-shampoo.php

[Long_hair_bear]

I like my Abba moisture scentsations shampoo and toadstool soaps conditioner. All are vegan and natural. :D

[Pazita!]

I'm an expert on organic products haha, well by expert I mean that I'm obsessed with organic hair care, so I know almost all brand out there and I have tried so many brands. I recommend Poofy Organics Shampoo or Cheryl's Herbs, they both have the same ingredients, the only difference is that Poofy has organic ingredients and cheryl's herbs doesn't, but cheryl's herbs is way cheaper.
I buy Poofy Organics because I wasn't sure about using mi credit card with Cheryl's Herbs because their page isn't https, they told me I could place an order over the phone but I'm from Ecuador and that is kind of difficult for me.
Well the ingredients are: Purified Water, Decyl Polyglucose, Vegetable Glycerin, Apple Cider Vinegar and Xanthan Gum. Decyl polyglucose is a naturally-derived surfactant (from corn and sugar). This is the "base" depending on your needs they add essential oils and herbs. For example Ingredients: Purified Water, Decyl Polyglucose, Organic Vegetable Glycerin, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Comfrey Root, Organic Marshmallow Root, Organic Comfrey Leaf, Organic Marshmallow Leaf, Organic Geranium Essential Oil, Organic Lavender Essential Oil,Xanthan Gum (Poofy Organics).
Prices: Poofy -> 13 dolars / 8,5oz
Cheryl Herbs -> 7,79 / 8 oz ---- 12,55/ 16oz ---- 21,59 / 32oz ----- if you buy only the base you can get 11,82 dolars / 32oz.

[Pazita!]

I'm an expert on organic products haha, well by expert I mean that I'm obsessed with organic hair care, so I know almost all brand out there and I have tried so many brands. I recommend Poofy Organics Shampoo or Cheryl's Herbs, they both have the same ingredients, the only difference is that Poofy has organic ingredients and cheryl's herbs doesn't, but cheryl's herbs is way cheaper.
I buy Poofy Organics because I wasn't sure about using mi credit card with Cheryl's Herbs because their page isn't https, they told me I could place an order over the phone but I'm from Ecuador and that is kind of difficult for me.
Well the ingredients are: Purified Water, Decyl Polyglucose, Vegetable Glycerin, Apple Cider Vinegar and Xanthan Gum. Decyl polyglucose is a naturally-derived surfactant (from corn and sugar). This is the "base" depending on your needs they add essential oils and herbs. For example Ingredients: Purified Water, Decyl Polyglucose, Organic Vegetable Glycerin, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Comfrey Root, Organic Marshmallow Root, Organic Comfrey Leaf, Organic Marshmallow Leaf, Organic Geranium Essential Oil, Organic Lavender Essential Oil,Xanthan Gum (Poofy Organics).
Prices: Poofy -> 13 dolars / 8,5oz
Cheryl Herbs -> 7,79 / 8 oz ---- 12,55/ 16oz ---- 21,59 / 32oz ----- if you buy only the base you can get 11,82 dolars / 32oz.
I forgot to say this works in soft and hard water. If you have soft water another great option is Bubble and Bee Shampoo:
Ingredients Lemon Shampoo: Saponified organic oils of coconut, olive & jojoba, organic lemon essential oil, vegetable glycerin, guar gum, sweet almond oil, organic jojoba oil, rosemary extract. Price: 14,99 / 8oz
You can also try Face Naturals
Ingredients Citrus: saponified oils of organic coconut, organic safflower, and organic olive, organic lemon essential oil, organic sweet orange essential oil, organic lime essential oil, organic pink grapefruit essential oil, guar gum, vegetable glycerin, organic rosemary extrac. Price 13,95 / 8,5oz
By the way options like Aubrey Organics, Dessert Essence, John Master are not natural or organic - they are better than regular shampoos but they are not truly natural.

[Amber_Maiden]

I forgot to say this works in soft and hard water. If you have soft water another great option is Bubble and Bee Shampoo:
Ingredients Lemon Shampoo: Saponified organic oils of coconut, olive & jojoba, organic lemon essential oil, vegetable glycerin, guar gum, sweet almond oil, organic jojoba oil, rosemary extract. Price: 14,99 / 8oz
You can also try Face Naturals
Ingredients Citrus: saponified oils of organic coconut, organic safflower, and organic olive, organic lemon essential oil, organic sweet orange essential oil, organic lime essential oil, organic pink grapefruit essential oil, guar gum, vegetable glycerin, organic rosemary extrac. Price 13,95 / 8,5oz
By the way options like Aubrey Organics, Dessert Essence, John Master are not natural or organic - they are better than regular shampoos but they are not truly natural.


I noticed when I looked Aubrey Organics that it really wasn't as clean as I'd expected.

The above ingredients you listed are a bit too far from where I want to go- I want something without things like guar gum, and glycerin.... Just very clean/pure.

I think I might have to make my own...:rolleyes:

[Long_hair_bear]

I noticed when I looked Aubrey Organics that it really wasn't as clean as I'd expected.

The above ingredients you listed are a bit too far from where I want to go- I want something without things like guar gum, and glycerin.... Just very clean/pure.

I think I might have to make my own...:rolleyes:

Cheryl makes mine for me. Very pure. Here's her shampoo with an ingredients list. This is also the scent I get though she has 100s.


http://www.etsy.com/listing/49118797/blue-lilac-shampoo-olive-oil-coconut-oil

[Amber_Maiden]

Cheryl makes mine for me. Very pure. Here's her shampoo with an ingredients list. This is also the scent I get though she has 100s.


http://www.etsy.com/listing/49118797/blue-lilac-shampoo-olive-oil-coconut-oil

I wish I could order from her- but the price to ship just one to me in more than the actual product!:(

[Long_hair_bear]

I wish I could order from her- but the price to ship just one to me in more than the actual product!:(

Oh, u must live in the uk?

[Amber_Maiden]

Oh, u must live in the uk?

Nope, Canada.

[Long_hair_bear]

Nope, Canada.

Ya I heard shipping costs in Canada are more excruciating than here, and that's saying something. :(

[Amber_Maiden]

Ya I heard shipping costs in Canada are more excruciating than here, and that's saying something. :(

Really sucks :(

[Pazita!]

I noticed when I looked Aubrey Organics that it really wasn't as clean as I'd expected.

The above ingredients you listed are a bit too far from where I want to go- I want something without things like guar gum, and glycerin.... Just very clean/pure.

I think I might have to make my own...:rolleyes:
Why do you want to avoid guar gum and glycerin?? both are natural and free of any hazard, they are totally clean/pure.

[Amber_Maiden]

Why do you want to avoid guar gum and glycerin?? both are natural and free of any hazard, they are totally clean/pure.

I don't really want to "soap" my hair, I find the glycerin makes my hair dryer, I also don't put anything on my skin I can't eat. As for the guar gum- I know it's naturally derived, and I've seen it in food products- but I wouldn't eat it so I won't put it on my skin.

[Kelikea]

By the way options like Aubrey Organics, Dessert Essence, John Master are not natural or organic - they are better than regular shampoos but they are not truly natural.



The Desert Essence organics line is not organic or natural? I also have a nature's gate organic--why are these called organic if they are not? Are they bad?

[ktani]

The Desert Essence organics line is not organic or natural? I also have a nature's gate organic--why are these called organic if they are not? Are they bad?

They are not necessarily better than other lines of products. As to your second question - marketing. The claims made for many hair care lines are bogus.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1884105&postcount=4

[Pazita!]

I don't really want to "soap" my hair, I find the glycerin makes my hair dryer, I also don't put anything on my skin I can't eat. As for the guar gum- I know it's naturally derived, and I've seen it in food products- but I wouldn't eat it so I won't put it on my skin.
I think it is going to be difficult (maybe impossible)to find a shampoo that has completly edible ingredients. I understand you, I also want the products I use to be totally clean and pure, but I think that not to put something on your skin that you would eat is a bit extreme, I mean you can't eat essential oils (even those considered safe) but on your skin they are not only safe but beneficial. You wouldn't eat soap (even a natural one like saponified olive oil) but soap isn't bad for your skin. There are a lot of natural ingredients that are ok for the skin but are not ok to eat, but that doesn't make them dangerous, or bad.
I have searched all over for the most natural shampoos and those that I gave you are the most clean and pure. Most shampoos will contain soap, and those that don't will contain a natural surfactant (like decyl polyglucose), and all of them will contain a emulsifier (like guar gum) or a preservative (like potassium sorbate) that you wouldn't eat.


The Desert Essence organics line is not organic or natural? I also have a nature's gate organic--why are these called organic if they are not? Are they bad?
Sadly the use of the word natural and organic isn't regulated :( so anyone can use it, that is why you should always read de labels or look for the usda organic seal (the best, other allow not so natural ingredients). Desert Essence contains:
Cocamidopropyl Betain: The biggest problem that cocamidopropyl betaine has is that its processing aids, amidoamine and 3-dimethylaminopropylamine, can remain in the product. These chemicals can cause contact dermatitis, eye irritation, and other allergic reactions. In fact, the rate of allergic reactions to these impurities is so high that the American Contact Dermatitis Society named cocamidopropyl betaine Allergen of the Year in 2004 (http://chemicaloftheday.squarespace.com/todays-chemical/2009/6/21/cocamidopropyl-betaine.html).
Sodium Coco-Sulfate you know sulfates aren't good for hair.
It contains Polyquaternium-7 which is a quaternary ammonium compounds, these compounds they are known to cause skin and respiratory irritation, some are endocrine disruptors, and are toxic to aquatic life.

[Pazita!]

They are not necessarily better than other lines of products. As to your second question - marketing. The claims made for many hair care lines are bogus.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1884105&postcount=4
I was refering to the brands I mentioned, those at least don't contain parabens, fragance, and similars. I know that there are a lot of brands that claim to be natural/organic but are the same as those considered "not natural".

[Amber_Maiden]

I think it is going to be difficult (maybe impossible)to find a shampoo that has completly "eatable" ingredients. I understand you, I also want the products I use to be totally clean and pure, but I think that not to put something on your skin that you would eat is a bit extreme, I mean you can't eat essential oils (even those considered safe) but on your skin they are not only safe but beneficial. You wouldn't eat soap (even a natural one like saponified olive oil) but soap isn't bad for your skin. There are a lot of natural ingredients that are ok for the skin but are not ok to eat, but that doesn't make them dangerous, or bad.
I have searched all over for the most natural shampoos and those that I gave you are the most clean and pure. Most shampoos will contain soap, and those that don't will contain a natural surfactant (like decyl polyglucose), and all of them will contain a emulsifier (like guar gum) or a preservative (like potassium sorbate) that you wouldn't eat.


I actually found two companies that made pretty pure products that don't contain preservatives. One of which has mostly edible ingredients.
To me, and to some other people, putting something on their bodies they wouldn't eat is a lifestyle, and a healthy one at that.
I also consider soap bad for my skin. So do some other people. It might be considered "extreme" but it's still a valid point of view and way of life for those of us who follow it. It might be a harder way of life, but it's important for those who follow it.

[Pazita!]

I actually found two companies that made pretty pure products that don't contain preservatives. One of which has mostly edible ingredients.
To me, and to some other people, putting something on their bodies they wouldn't eat is a lifestyle, and a healthy one at that.
I also consider soap bad for my skin. So do some other people. It might be considered "extreme" but it's still a valid point of view and way of life for those of us who follow it. It might be a harder way of life, but it's important for those who follow it.
Don't get me wrong I didn't mean to say your lifestyle is wrong, I totally respect it ;) and I actually admire your conviction. But I'm confused you say that you used Oneka Shampoo and that it was very clean and very pure but it contains Coco Betaine which main problem is that its processing aids, amidoamine and 3-dimethylaminopropylamine, can remain in the product. These chemicals can cause contact dermatitis, eye irritation, and other allergic reactions. In fact, the rate of allergic reactions to these impurities is so high that the American Contact Dermatitis Society named cocamidopropyl betaine Allergen of the Year in 2004. It also contains Hydroxymethylglycinate, which is also a skin irritant and it is not natural. So these are ingredients that you wouldn't eat right? I don't understand you prefer those ingredients to soap?? I think those ingredients are way worst than soap.
Then what are those companies that use mostly edible ingredients?? I would love to try those products =)

[Pazita!]

Thank you for the link ktani.

I'm looking for a much simpler S & C... like something that has food grade ingredients. I guess this is why I'm more drawn to morrocco method and terressentials.

Also I don't think mud is something you would eat, but it doesn't make it bad for hair right? That's what I meant when I said that it is a bit extreme to want only ingredients you would eat because there are ingredients that are safe but you wouldn't eat. By the way I tried Terressentials and at first it was great, but after a few month it wouldn't clean my hair, it would always leave some residue that made my hair oily and gross and it didn't wash out no matter what I did, also it made my very light brown hair really dark so I stopped using it.

[Amber_Maiden]

Don't get me wrong I didn't mean to say your lifestyle is wrong, I totally respect it ;) and I actually admire your conviction. But I'm confused you say that you used Oneka Shampoo and that it was very clean and very pure but it contains Coco Betaine which main problem is that its processing aids, amidoamine and 3-dimethylaminopropylamine, can remain in the product. These chemicals can cause contact dermatitis, eye irritation, and other allergic reactions. In fact, the rate of allergic reactions to these impurities is so high that the American Contact Dermatitis Society named cocamidopropyl betaine Allergen of the Year in 2004. It also contains Hydroxymethylglycinate, which is also a skin irritant and it is not natural. So these are ingredients that you wouldn't eat right? I don't understand you prefer those ingredients to soap?? I think those ingredients are way worst than soap.
Then what are those companies that use mostly edible ingredients?? I would love to try those products =)

I do not use Oneka anymore, and that it contains Hydroxymethylglycinate is one of the reasons I stopped using it. Still, I used it as an example because I find it's cleaner then most brands out there, like Live Clean or Aubrey Organics.



Also I don't think mud is something you would eat, but it doesn't make it bad for hair right? That's what I meant when I said that it is a bit extreme to want only ingredients you would eat because there are ingredients that are safe but you wouldn't eat. By the way I tried Terressentials and at first it was great, but after a few month it wouldn't clean my hair, it would always leave some residue that made my hair oily and gross and it didn't wash out no matter what I did, also it made my very light brown hair really dark so I stopped using it.

You mean clay? I count that as something you could possibly eat and not be physically harmed by... I have friends who use the stuff to detox, and they are some of the healthiest people I know.

I know I have a very "picky" lifestyle, and I know it's hard for you to understand it, but I don't think that gives you reason to attack me over what I believe in- and yes, I do feel a bit attacked.

[Long_hair_bear]

I do not use Oneka anymore, and that it contains Hydroxymethylglycinate is one of the reasons I stopped using it. Still, I used it as an example because I find it's cleaner then most brands out there, like Live Clean or Aubrey Organics.




You mean clay? I count that as something you could possibly eat and not be physically harmed by... I have friends who use the stuff to detox, and they are some of the healthiest people I know.

I know I have a very "picky" lifestyle, and I know it's hard for you to understand it, but I don't think that gives you reason to attack me over what I believe in- and yes, I do feel a bit attacked.


Shame you can't get cheryls stuff. And don't feel attacked. I'm sure she meant well. :)

[Amber_Maiden]

Shame you can't get cheryls stuff. And don't feel attacked. I'm sure she meant well. :)

I know she probably meant well... I just feel a bit hurt that people would not understand/respect where I'm coming from. I respect what other people to to their hair- whatever makes them happy! :p

I think I might end up making my own shampoo, or ordering from Morrocco Method.

[Pazita!]

I do not use Oneka anymore, and that it contains Hydroxymethylglycinate is one of the reasons I stopped using it. Still, I used it as an example because I find it's cleaner then most brands out there, like Live Clean or Aubrey Organics.




You mean clay? I count that as something you could possibly eat and not be physically harmed by... I have friends who use the stuff to detox, and they are some of the healthiest people I know.

I know I have a very "picky" lifestyle, and I know it's hard for you to understand it, but I don't think that gives you reason to attack me over what I believe in- and yes, I do feel a bit attacked.

I'm sorry, I don't want you to feel like that, really!! I'm sorry if I made you feel like that, :(. I know because I'm picky too and people don't understand so I would never want to make you feel like that, please forgive me. Also could you please tell me the name of the two companies you found that made pure products??

[Amber_Maiden]

I'm sorry, I don't want you to feel like that, really!! I'm sorry if I made you feel like that, :(. I know because I'm picky too and people don't understand so I would never want to make you feel like that, please forgive me. Also could you please tell me the name of the two companies you found that made pure products??

It's ok.

Basically Terressentials and Morrocco Method are the cleanest I've found. I found some other companies, but they look pretty green washed to me.

[Pazita!]

I know she probably meant well... I just feel a bit hurt that people would not understand/respect where I'm coming from. I respect what other people to to their hair- whatever makes them happy! :p

I think I might end up making my own shampoo, or ordering from Morrocco Method.

By the way Morrocco Method had a lawsuit for mislabeled organic products http://www.ceh.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=529

[Amber_Maiden]

By the way Morrocco Method had a lawsuit for mislabeled organic products http://www.ceh.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=529

Good to know, thank you.
I wasn't planning on buying their oil anyways. I like my avocado oil. :)

[Pazita!]

Good to know, thank you.
I wasn't planning on buying their oil anyways. I like my avocado oil. :)
The oil is just an example. "the products listed are just examples; CEH has identified multiple mislabeled products from the companies". I think you should go for the Terressentials Hair Wash, I hope it works for you, it didn't work out for me :(

[ktani]

I was refering to the brands I mentioned, those at least don't contain parabens, fragance, and similars. I know that there are a lot of brands that claim to be natural/organic but are the same as those considered "not natural".

I used those to simply make a point. Preservatives are necessary in cosmetics meant to have a shelf life and those that claim to have edible ones or what they (the manufacturers) want people consider to be clean are most likely not preserved well, in my opinion.

It gets complicated and I totally get the problems in finding what you and others are searching for for your lifestyle, problems and preferences.

[Kelikea]

I think it is going to be difficult (maybe impossible)to find a shampoo that has completly edible ingredients. I understand you, I also want the products I use to be totally clean and pure, but I think that not to put something on your skin that you would eat is a bit extreme, I mean you can't eat essential oils (even those considered safe) but on your skin they are not only safe but beneficial. You wouldn't eat soap (even a natural one like saponified olive oil) but soap isn't bad for your skin. There are a lot of natural ingredients that are ok for the skin but are not ok to eat, but that doesn't make them dangerous, or bad.
I have searched all over for the most natural shampoos and those that I gave you are the most clean and pure. Most shampoos will contain soap, and those that don't will contain a natural surfactant (like decyl polyglucose), and all of them will contain a emulsifier (like guar gum) or a preservative (like potassium sorbate) that you wouldn't eat.


Sadly the use of the word natural and organic isn't regulated :( so anyone can use it, that is why you should always read de labels or look for the usda organic seal (the best, other allow not so natural ingredients). Desert Essence contains:
Cocamidopropyl Betain: The biggest problem that cocamidopropyl betaine has is that its processing aids, amidoamine and 3-dimethylaminopropylamine, can remain in the product. These chemicals can cause contact dermatitis, eye irritation, and other allergic reactions. In fact, the rate of allergic reactions to these impurities is so high that the American Contact Dermatitis Society named cocamidopropyl betaine Allergen of the Year in 2004 (http://chemicaloftheday.squarespace.com/todays-chemical/2009/6/21/cocamidopropyl-betaine.html).
Sodium Coco-Sulfate you know sulfates aren't good for hair.
It contains Polyquaternium-7 which is a quaternary ammonium compounds, these compounds they are known to cause skin and respiratory irritation, some are endocrine disruptors, and are toxic to aquatic life.

Well, the desert essence organics coconut shampoo and conditioner I have do not contain cocamidopropyl betaine or plyquatrnium-7, but the shampoo does have the coco-sulfate (9th on the list). I wish it was cleaner, but I did just re-order another bottle of S&C. Maybe I'll look into terressentials next. At least Baking soda and ACV are clean and edible right? I can always use those til I find something else.

[Amber_Maiden]

Well, the desert essence organics coconut shampoo and conditioner I have do not contain cocamidopropyl betaine or plyquatrnium-7, but the shampoo does have the coco-sulfate (9th on the list). I wish it was cleaner, but I did just re-order another bottle of S&C. Maybe I'll look into terressentials next. At least Baking soda and ACV are clean and edible right? I can always use those til I find something else.

Definitely what I plan on doing if I can't find an alternative.

[Pazita!]

Well, the desert essence organics coconut shampoo and conditioner I have do not contain cocamidopropyl betaine or plyquatrnium-7, but the shampoo does have the coco-sulfate (9th on the list). I wish it was cleaner, but I did just re-order another bottle of S&C. Maybe I'll look into terressentials next. At least Baking soda and ACV are clean and edible right? I can always use those til I find something else.
Maybe Desert Essence change their formula and its better now, if you could give the the ingredients I could tell you how safe the new formula is. Baking Soda and ACV is a great option, but use it for a short period of time (only until you find a shampoo) you shouldn't use it for too long because your hair will be on a p.H roller coaster.
Terressentials has great ingredients, but I have read so many reviews and apparently only african american hair reacts well with it.
Other great optiones are Bubble and Bee, and Face Naturals (only if you have soft water) or Poofy Organics or Cheryls Herbs (both have the same ingredients only that Cheryl's Herbs isn't organic but it is waay cheaper).

[Amber_Maiden]

Maybe Desert Essence change their formula and its better now, if you could give the the ingredients I could tell you how safe the new formula is. Baking Soda and ACV is a great option, but use it for a short period of time (only until you find a shampoo) you shouldn't use it for too long because your hair will be on a p.H roller coaster.
Terressentials has great ingredients, but I have read so many reviews and apparently only african american hair reacts well with it.
Other great optiones are Bubble and Bee, and Face Naturals (only if you have soft water) or Poofy Organics or Cheryls Herbs (both have the same ingredients only that Cheryl's Herbs isn't organic but it is waay cheaper).

That's also what I read about Terressentials, though there were a few people who had great results with it and were different hair types. I found one woman who used it for a year before she started getting dandruff and changed to Morrocco Method, which she's now used for two years and loves. She's a raw vegan.

[Kelikea]

I used bs and acv all summer. In winter, I just need extra moisture, but organic coconut oil or avacado oil can help with that. I don't consider it a pH roller coaster since the vinegar balances the pH of your scalp immediately after you use the bs. If you were using a shampoo with a pH other than 5, you would be changing the pH of your scalp anyway, but how would you balance it? Normally skin has a 5 pH level, but most shampoos are around 8, leading to many scalp problems.

Amber, I hope you find something you like:)

[Pazita!]

I used bs and acv all summer. In winter, I just need extra moisture, but organic coconut oil or avacado oil can help with that. I don't consider it a pH roller coaster since the vinegar balances the pH of your scalp immediately after you use the bs. If you were using a shampoo with a pH other than 5, you would be changing the pH of your scalp anyway, but how would you balance it? Normally skin has a 5 pH level, but most shampoos are around 8, leading to many scalp problems.

Amber, I hope you find something you like:)

This lady explains the use of baking soda and vinegar and she doesn't think it is good for hair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAjZjecFPFg
I lot of people say (in this forum) that baking soda it too harsh on hair, and it isn't bad if used for short periods but it is bad if you use it for a long time. I think this is true because at first it was great but after a few months my hair was dryer and with a lot of split ends =/.
Also the Unscented Shampoo from Poofy Organics has a p.H of 5.5, and the shampoo with the highest p.H has a a p.H of 6. I think that is pretty good.

[Amber_Maiden]

I used bs and acv all summer. In winter, I just need extra moisture, but organic coconut oil or avacado oil can help with that. I don't consider it a pH roller coaster since the vinegar balances the pH of your scalp immediately after you use the bs. If you were using a shampoo with a pH other than 5, you would be changing the pH of your scalp anyway, but how would you balance it? Normally skin has a 5 pH level, but most shampoos are around 8, leading to many scalp problems.

Amber, I hope you find something you like:)

Thanks Kelikea! I hope I find something that works as well! In the meantime I have WO, and I'll probably use ACV for awhile or tea rinses... I only use Baking Soda to clarify really- my hair has dryness issues. :( Ah well!

[Pazita!]

That's also what I read about Terressentials, though there were a few people who had great results with it and were different hair types. I found one woman who used it for a year before she started getting dandruff and changed to Morrocco Method, which she's now used for two years and loves. She's a raw vegan.
Isn't she Kristen Raw?? Well my hair is fine/medium and Terressentials didn't work out for me, like I said if left some residue that wouldn't wash out and made my hair really oily, it also weighted down my hair, and chage it to a darker shade :S, after I stopped using it my hair went back to normal. I wanted to try Morrocco Method but after the lawsuit I don't want anymore, plus I don't like that they list ingredients like "100% natural foaming" or "Blood of the Dragon—Rare Proteins" I think it is to vague and so many companies use this kind of strategy when they are not as pure as the seem.

[Amber_Maiden]

Isn't she Kristen Raw?? Well my hair is fine/medium and Terressentials didn't work out for me, like I said if left some residue that wouldn't wash out and made my hair really oily, it also weighted down my hair, and chage it to a darker shade :S, after I stopped using it my hair went back to normal. I wanted to try Morrocco Method but after the lawsuit I don't want anymore, plus I don't like that they list ingredients like "100% natural foaming" or "Blood of the Dragon—Rare Proteins" I think it is to vague and so many companies use this kind of strategy when they are not as pure as the seem.

Yep, that's her.
The oil/lawsuit thing is a bit weird... As is their not naming certain ingredients... I also don't like how small the sizes are for the price, but then again, it's almost the same price I was using before for organic products.
I'm going to try to unearth more info on them. I do know they only buy their herbs, etc from other companies that don't test on animals, and I think that's pretty neat and compassionate. I also like how dedicated the owner is, and how they use raw, vegan ingredients.

[bouclée]

There is an interesting egg thread here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=82169). Have you tried/considered washing your hair with eggs? (I'm not sure you eat eggs though, so sorry if it's not an option for you.).

[Amber_Maiden]

There is an interesting egg thread here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=82169). Have you tried/considered washing your hair with eggs? (I'm not sure you eat eggs though, so sorry if it's not an option for you.).

Not an option. Been a strict vegan for almost 8 years now.

[morrigan*]

What about Ikove (http://www.ikove.com/) ? Their chocolate co is veary heavy, so it might suit you.
Eta: Ingredients of chocolate conditioner: aqua, aloe, babacu seed oil, acai fruit extract, cocoa butter, mate leaf extract, cetyl alcohol, wheat protein, sorbitan olivate, cetearyl olivate, sugacane vinegar, vitamin e, sweet orange oil, cocoa liqour, potassium sorbate, sodium benzonate.
Okay, probably not what you're looking for.

I think that you should really look into indian herbs, as they seem most organic way to wash hair, apart from wo and eggs.

[LissaJane]

I don't know if you get it outside of South Africa, but I use shapoos from The Victorian Garden. It's all natural (I don't know about vegan, it doesn't state so on the bottle, but it does have a "beauty without cruelty" logo with a picture of a bunny and none of the ingredients have any animally sounding origins.)

my hair LOVES this stuff.

[morrigan*]

Also I don't think mud is something you would eat, but it doesn't make it bad for hair right?

Just to be clear a lot of people eat clay for health reasons, sure it's more expensive than one for cosmetic use only.:)

[Amber_Maiden]

Just to be clear a lot of people eat clay for health reasons, sure it's more expensive than one for cosmetic use only.:)

Exactly what I pointed out :)

[Pazita!]

Just to be clear a lot of people eat clay for health reasons, sure it's more expensive than one for cosmetic use only.:)
Thank you, Amber said it too, I didn't know it, but know I do =)

[Pazita!]

Have you already found a conditioner?? For me it has been really difficult to find a natural/organic conditioner... Currently I use argan oil as a leave in conditioner.
I recently found this Hair Conditioning Cream, I haven't used it yet but the ingredients look pretty good: http://www.etsy.com/listing/77597869/happy-hair-conditioning-cream-with (Reading the reviews I think that a 4oz size would last a looong time).

[Amber_Maiden]

Have you already found a conditioner?? For me it has been really difficult to find a natural/organic conditioner... Currently I use argan oil as a leave in conditioner.
I recently found this Hair Conditioning Cream, I haven't used it yet but the ingredients look pretty good: http://www.etsy.com/listing/77597869/happy-hair-conditioning-cream-with (Reading the reviews I think that a 4oz size would last a looong time).

Nope haven't found a conditioner yet. That does look pretty good!

[Pazita!]

Nope haven't found a conditioner yet. That does look pretty good!
Glad you like it =). By the way I send you a private message =)

[Amber_Maiden]

Glad you like it =). By the way I send you a private message =)

Answer message is coming your way!:)

[Kamir0]

This lady explains the use of baking soda and vinegar and she doesn't think it is good for hair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAjZjecFPFg <snip>


Thank you so much for this link!
I have been watching a few videos on her channel, and plan on getting pH-balanced vegan products (actually conditioner, as I'd really like to Co-wash).
It seems Avalon Organics might just do the trick. :D

It makes so much sense...
I have had extreme scalp/skin sensitivity for over 10 years and it could all boil down to pH imbalance. :rolleyes:

[owlathena]

I love my shampoo bars! I have the argan and soapnut ones from hennasooq. They're gentle and (as far as I know) natural. And a lot of the time I don't feel the need to use conditioner with them.

[Pazita!]

Thank you so much for this link!
I have been watching a few videos on her channel, and plan on getting pH-balanced vegan products (actually conditioner, as I'd really like to Co-wash).
It seems Avalon Organics might just do the trick. :D

It makes so much sense...
I have had extreme scalp/skin sensitivity for over 10 years and it could all boil down to pH imbalance. :rolleyes:

Avalon Organics isn't truly natural/organic =(.
I was recently using the baking soda and vinegar method, my hair was truly clean BUT it had a lot of tangles, it felt dry, a lot of split ends, and recently my scalp started itching and flaking =(. I switched to Poofy Organics, it is natural and organic (not all the ingredients are organic because not every ingredient has and organic version), it is vegan and ph balanced (ph of 5.5). My hair is so clean, soft, and I don't even have to use a detangler anymore!, plus the itching and flaking went away!. It is really mild, I have to shampoo twice or it won't clean my hair, but besides that everything else is great!!

[Kamir0]

Avalon Organics isn't truly natural/organic =(.
I was recently using the baking soda and vinegar method, my hair was truly clean BUT it had a lot of tangles, it felt dry, a lot of split ends, and recently my scalp started itching and flaking =(. I switched to Poofy Organics, it is natural and organic (not all the ingredients are organic because not every ingredient has and organic version), it is vegan and ph balanced (ph of 5.5). My hair is so clean, soft, and I don't even have to use a detangler anymore!, plus the itching and flaking went away!. It is really mild, I have to shampoo twice or it won't clean my hair, but besides that everything else is great!!

Thanks Pazita! :flowers:

[Pazita!]

Thanks Pazita! :flowers:
Sure =). If you ever try Poofy Organics let me how it goes! ;)