The Cassia Thread (see first post for link to FAQs)

[Rae~]

New site; new cassia obovata experiments! :D

I haven't done a cassia treatment for a while, actually, but I might this week. I think I'm out of amla, so it might be a 100% cassia gloop this time. It's worked well for me before.

Has anyone else experimented with more cassia mixes lately?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FAQs for the Cassia Thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=42754).

[kettle]

I haven't - but I'm thinking of doing a cassia treatment sometime this week too, and I've lost all my print-outs on it, so I have no idea how much to use, and in what proportions. So I would be very very grateful if anyone out there could give me a hint :o
I've only ever used cassia once, and all I remember is I mixed it with cammomile tea!
:flower:

[dorothea-brooke]

Me, too! I just ordered some cassia (never used it before), and while I'm waiting for it to arrive have been trying to do some research in the LHC archives.

Oh, Cassia Users, please come to our aid! :D

-- dorothea

[LaurelSpring]

Greetings,

I just ordered some Cassia also. Check out the hennaforhair site. There is alot of info there.

[Tina]

A couple of weeks ago I used "Light Mountain Natural" Neutral Henna (ingredients were cassia auriculata (a.k.a. Avaram Senna or Tanner's Cassia) and Lawsonia Inermis. Here's the link: http://www.light-mountain-hair-color.com/ingr/ingr187125.cfm

I put on two treatments in one week. I felt a difference. My hair was less "velcro-y". I have fine hair with normal volume (oh how I wish I had more of it!! but I won't go off on that tangent). My hair tends to tangle easily and attract lint fibres. After the cassia, I noticed it was a little less velcro-y.

I mixed it with warm water (I boiled then let it cool down). Not too thick, not runny; but spreadable. I left it on about an hour with my head wrapped in a towel, then just rinsed it out.

I live in Toronto and have ordered two boxes ($8.99 for 4 oz.) from The Big Carrot on Danforth Ave in Greek Town. If you live in the area and want some, call them (416.466.2129) and they'll order it!! Maybe we can get them to carry the "Neutral" all the time, not just the coloring hennas. The box comes with a bag to wrap your head in too. Very handy.

The Big Carrot also carries the Logona ($11.99 for 3.5 oz) and Colora brands ($4.99 for 2 oz).

I can't wait to do more applications. One box gives me two applications. This time I plan to leave it on a looong time. My hair is back to being velcro-y. If anyone else has this type of hair, what do you do? It can look so stringy!

[FrannyG]

The last couple of times I did cassia treatments, I've been doing it on dry hair. I use chamomile tea as the liquid and just the cassia.

I have to say that applying it on dry hair has left me with much better results than when I used to apply it on wet hair. I don't know that it would be that way for everyone, but it certainly works for me. :)

[FrannyG]

Oh! I just noticed that some of you have forgotten your mix. I can only tell you that I use 100g for my BSL length hair. I add the hot chamomile tea slowly in a glass bowl, and use enough to make it the consistency of cake batter. I cover the bowl with aluminum foil for about 20 minutes, apply it to my hair and leave it for an hour.

Hope that's at least a bit of help :flower:

[Ms Monnie]

I haven't done a cassia treatment for a while, actually, but I might this week. I think I'm out of amla, so it might be a 100% cassia gloop this time. It's worked well for me before.

I'd like to know your experiences with using amla and cassia together. I haven't tried my amla on my hair yet, only on my face. Do you mix it up half and half? What do you use to make a paste?

So far, I've been using this mix:

3 tbs of cassia
1 tbs fenugreek
1 tbs BAQ henna

Mix to a paste with strong chamomile tea, set aside in a warm place for dye release. Then add one (US) cup of SMT. Slop on to heavily misted hair and wear for as long as you have patience (my head could only cope with an hour or two).

I was trying to do that once a month but I lasped. I'm quite glad I did because I think the henna was depositing more colour than I wanted and it would have been even worse if it had built up. My hair is naturally red already, I wanted the strengthening properties and some highlights but I don't want to go too far from what comes from my head. I think it would be a great boosting mix for people who already henna.

Does anyone like using yoghurt with cassia?

[Rae~]

Hi Ms Monnie,

I haven't settled on a specific mix that I particularly favour over others yet, but IIRC I was using about three parts cassia, one part amla. I have only ever used warm water to make the mixes, never chamomile tea or others.

I really should experiment more. :)

[Gothic Lolita]

Can somebody help me with this question, please?

I henna gloss my hair every 4 to 8 weeks. Can I do a Cassia Treatment a few days after glossing or do I have to wait a certain amount of time?

[marajade]

Hi All!

I was thinking about using clear henna/cassia and I was wondering where everyone gets their supplies from? I don't want to spend a lot of money but I want quality product-- who does everyone buy from?

Does anyone have before and after of cassia?

Thanks in advance!!

[FrannyG]

Hi All!

I was thinking about using clear henna/cassia and I was wondering where everyone gets their supplies from? I don't want to spend a lot of money but I want quality product-- who does everyone buy from?

Does anyone have before and after of cassia?

Thanks in advance!!

Well, I purchase my cassia from hennasooq.com and I'm extremely happy with the product, the shipping time, and the customer service. I buy in bulk, so a cassia treatment for me is about $7.00 per treatment on my BSL length hair. There are a lot of vendors on hennaforhair.com who also sell cassia.

Make sure you buy pure cassia obovata. The drugstore brands of neutral henna are not pure cassia and may have metallic salts in them.

I do not have before and after photos. I can only tell you that cassia gives my hair a little bit of extra thickness, a smooth feeling and lots of shine. Whenever I'm feeling cranky about my hair feeling damaged, especially in the canopy area and at the ends, a cassia treatment fixes me right up.

I hope that helps.

[marajade]

Well, I purchase my cassia from hennasooq.com and I'm extremely happy with the product, the shipping time, and the customer service. I buy in bulk, so a cassia treatment for me is about $7.00 per treatment on my BSL length hair. There are a lot of vendors on hennaforhair.com who also sell cassia.

Make sure you buy pure cassia obovata. The drugstore brands of neutral henna are not pure cassia and may have metallic salts in them.

I do not have before and after photos. I can only tell you that cassia gives my hair a little bit of extra thickness, a smooth feeling and lots of shine. Whenever I'm feeling cranky about my hair feeling damaged, especially in the canopy area and at the ends, a cassia treatment fixes me right up.

I hope that helps.

Thank you so much!!!

[dorothea-brooke]

Oh! I just noticed that some of you have forgotten your mix. I can only tell you that I use 100g for my BSL length hair. I add the hot chamomile tea slowly in a glass bowl, and use enough to make it the consistency of cake batter. I cover the bowl with aluminum foil for about 20 minutes, apply it to my hair and leave it for an hour.

Hope that's at least a bit of help :flower:
Hi frannyg,

I just ordered some cassia from the mehandi site; they recommended 400 g for BSL hair! What have your results been with 100 g? That seems like a huge difference to me....

cheers,
dorothea

[marajade]

Hi again!

For those of you who have used cassia-- should I be clarifying prior to cassia? I was thinking of doing a light baking soda wash then cassia then SMT. Is this ok?

[khyricat]

a lot depends on how thick your mix is and how much hair you have.. for BSL hair they recommend a lot of Henna too, but I still use 33 grams...

Anyway- onto why I am here.. I have a cassia question.. the few days after I henna my hair is the nicest it is all month.. I use a cassia based poo bar, and it has always worked well, but lately I am wondering if using straight cassia would be a better option as a washing agent. Has anyone done this and what type of mix would you recommend?

Amie

[lynnala]

a lot depends on how thick your mix is and how much hair you have.. for BSL hair they recommend a lot of Henna too, but I still use 33 grams...

Anyway- onto why I am here.. I have a cassia question.. the few days after I henna my hair is the nicest it is all month.. I use a cassia based poo bar, and it has always worked well, but lately I am wondering if using straight cassia would be a better option as a washing agent. Has anyone done this and what type of mix would you recommend?

Amie I did try using a very watered down mix of cassia as a wash, and I didn't really like it as it didn't clean my hair like, say BS does. Plus cassia will add a slight golden tone if you have blonde or white hair, and I was told that it might start to yellow if I used too much. I didn't try mixing it with other ingredients for a wash though, I think it would be worth investigating, because the pure cassia conditioning treatment is wonderful.

[FrannyG]

Hi frannyg,

I just ordered some cassia from the mehandi site; they recommended 400 g for BSL hair! What have your results been with 100 g? That seems like a huge difference to me....

cheers,
dorothea

It is a huge difference, but honestly 100g makes more than enough for my hair. I remember asking around in the old Cassia Thread and a lot of people used less than what was suggested.

Don't forget though, that I have 1a/f/ii hair, so you may find it different, depending on your hairtype.

[sybarite]

Could someone give me simple directions on how to apply cassia?
-How long do I let it sit after mixing before I putting it in my hair?
-How long do I leave in on my hair?
-Do I shampoo after I rinse it out?

[Rae~]

sybarite, if it helps, here is what I do (whatever my mix is):

- mix with warm/hot water and let sit only as long as I need to get ready (making sure to test the temp before applying, to make sure it has cooled to a comfortable level). ETA: If you include any henna in your mix and you are trying to get colour, this prep may vary, of course.

- wet my hair, towel dry just enough to stop it running down my back

- separate my hair into about 8 sections, make small beebutt buns and secure with mini clips

- unwrap buns one at a time and apply cassia mix (aka 'gloop'!) to the length. Rewrap and re-secure. Also apply gloop to the scalp area (ie the hair that isn't wrapped inside the buns)

- after having done that to all sections, I spread any remaining/excess gloop all over, both scalp area and buns.

- cover in clingwrap if I can bear the giggles from flatmates etc. This is to stop it drying out, particularly if you plan on a long treatment. Plonk myself down with either a good book, or in front of the computer. I tend to leave it on for as long as possible, but it has ranged anywhere from about 30-40 min, through to 4-5 hours. ETA: I also have an old towel around my shoulders, and a box of tissues on hand in case I get drippies running down my neck, which I usually do at some point, to varying degrees.

...

- when you are ready to wash it out, if at all possible run a bath. If you are conserving water, it doesn't have to be deep - just enough so that when you lie down (ie on your back) you can get your head, up to about your ears, underwater. I do find that the more water, the better it rinses, though.

- unwrap buns. No detangling yet. Lie down and massage my scalp, paying particular attention to the hairline, where the gloop may have dried a little. I swish my hair around quite a bit, but this might not work for longer hair. The water will go a really dark green, it will feel like you are swimming in a swamp. ;)

- after at least a good 5+ minutes of that, and when I can't feel any hard clumps in my hair, I get up, drain the bath and turn on the shower. Rinse for another few minutes with plain water until the water is almost clear.

- Apply LOTS of conditioner. I have a relatively cheap one I buy in bulk, exactly for this purpose. Massage condish through. At this stage, I usually test with finger-combing to see how tangled it is, but I don't try and detangle yet. Rinse.

- Apply more conditioner, possibly another couple of times. Detangle starting with fingercombing, then moving on to a wide-toothed comb.

- Air dry hair as per usual.

I did have photos showing all this, but I can't access them as they were in my old photo journal, sorry.

[marajade]

sybarite, if it helps, here is what I do (whatever my mix is):

.....

I did have photos showing all this, but I can't access them as they were in my old photo journal, sorry.

Ok, you all have convinced me! I'm ordering 500g ( I have superthick nearing waist length hair and I'm hoping I'll get at least 3 treatments out of this). . Totalling 31 USD. DF said that he would split the cost with me as an experiment to see if I like it. He REALLY wants me to be a midnight black hair or red hair, and wants me to try henna. After all the work I have done to get my hair healthy I will never do "professional" or box dye again. So, we'll see if I like cassia!! I'm tre excited!!:D

[Rae~]

marajade, that's great - have fun! You are doing it purely for condition, not colour, right? One thing to note is that some people report it can take a few applications of cassia before they really see results, so don't be too disappointed if the result is fairly subtle after the first one. :) (Having said that, it has not been my experience - I love my hair after even just one application).

I highly recommend "practicing" applying gloop using cassia before you move on to henna anyway... seeing as there is little stain with cassia (although I still clean up drips fairly quickly just in case, especially in a white bathroom!). Henna is much less forgiving. It took me a couple of goes before I worked out how to apply the gloop without getting it EVERYWHERE. :D

[marajade]

Yep. . too scared to do any kind of "color" :)

[FrannyG]

Marijade, if you're doing it purely for conditioning, make sure that you only leave the cassia mix to develop for 20-30 minutes. Also, there is nothing to suggest that leaving cassia on for more than an hour is any more effective for conditioning than just leaving it on for 30-60 minutes.

I notice a conditioning benefit from the first treatment, but it does build up in time. And the good news is that you don't need to leave it on your head all day as you would with henna.

I know that most people apply the cassia to damp hair, but I honestly found that the conditioning was more apparent after applying it to dry hair. I've tested it, and there's no question that it's definitely more effective on me with dry hair.

Of course as with everything, results vary from person to person.

I can't wait to hear all about it! :flowers:

[FrannyG]

For anyone who's interested, this is grams converted into cups:

>> 1/8 cup= 15 grams
>>
>> 1/4 cup= 30 grams
>>
>> 1/3 cup= 40 grams
>>
>> 3/8 cup= 45 grams
>>
>> 1/2 cup= 60 grams
>>
>> 5/8 cup= 70 grams
>>
>> 2/3 cup= 75 grams
>>
>> 3/4 cup= 85 grams
>>
>> 7/8 cup= 100 grams
>>
>> 1 cup= 110 grams

I hope this is of use to someone. :)

[dorothea-brooke]

A quick question for those of you who use/have used cassia to colour grey hairs (and "perk up" blonde hair): Should I use more cassia than just for conditioning? Should I mix it with anything in particular (e.g., chamomile, lemon juice)? Should I let the mix develop longer than for conditioning? And, should I leave it on longer?

The mehandi site recommends a mix with lemon or orange juice, developing for 12 hours, and leaving on for (I think) 3-4. Anyone tried this?

thanks!
dorothea

[Silver & Gold]

I'm interested in cassia mixed with yogurt and also ways to use cassia without getting too much yellow since I have many silver hairs. I read about leaving it on for less time (20-30 minutes), is there anything else one can do to either prevent the yellow or use a tea that would tone the yellow?
I don't mind a bit of color as long as the tone isn't too yellow.

[jel]

I henna gloss my hair every 4 to 8 weeks. Can I do a Cassia Treatment a few days after glossing or do I have to wait a certain amount of time?

I can't see why you couldn't (i.e. I don't think there'd be anything wrong with that).

However, both henna and cassia strengthen (and thicken) hair by depositing colour on the shaft. You'd probably be better off if you do your henna glosses and cassia alternately every 2-4 weeks, to maintain the thickening/strenghtening benefits. I mean like henna ->(3 wks later) cassia ->(3 wks later) henna ->(3 wks later) cassia, and so on.

[Lexie]

I used cassia on virgin hair with a few grays 3 years ago when no one even knew that it had a light golden dye. My grays are sterling silver and didn't change after cassia which I did every week. For me, the conditioning wore off in that short a time which is why I preferred henna. It lasted much longer. Perhaps the longer you use cassia, the longer the conditioning lasts. I've noticed that with henna though I know they're two completely different plants so they may not work even nearly the same. I think the key is getting the cassia on and off before it releases its dye. All those who used it like I did on H4H had reported no color. They mixed, applied a.s.a.p., and only kept it on for 30 minutes. The general consensus in the old cassia thread here seemed to be that waiting for dye release for 3 hours gave the best results.

Also, I wouldn't say henna and cassia condition by depositing color. They can work without doing that. In fact, Prairiechild had reported destroying the lawsone in henna to use it for conditioning without getting color and said it worked the same.

[Silver & Gold]

Several of you have confirmed for me the bit about leaving cassia on for not more than 30 minutes if you don't want the yellow color.

I've also read that some people use a mixture with yogurt rather than water with the cassia. Does anyone know what yogurt imparts to the cassia as far as conditioning and if it affects the dye release in any way?

[lynnala]

A quick question for those of you who use/have used cassia to colour grey hairs (and "perk up" blonde hair): Should I use more cassia than just for conditioning? Should I mix it with anything in particular (e.g., chamomile, lemon juice)? Should I let the mix develop longer than for conditioning? And, should I leave it on longer?

The mehandi site recommends a mix with lemon or orange juice, developing for 12 hours, and leaving on for (I think) 3-4. Anyone tried this?

thanks!
dorothea
Hi dorothea;
I've used cassia twice now, (I have about 3/4 white hair), and the first time it really did turn my hair a beautiful golden color. I was in too much of a hurry though, and I didn't mix it with juice and let it sit 12 hours. And I only left it in my hair for 45 min. Still, it came out beautifully. So this week I am going to try it by the recipe on mehandi. I'll let you know how it turns out!

Which brings up another question: does anyone know why the orange or lemon juice is recommended? What does it add to the equation?

[jel]

Also, I wouldn't say henna and cassia condition by depositing color. They can work without doing that. In fact, Prairiechild had reported destroying the lawsone in henna to use it for conditioning without getting color and said it worked the same.

Fair enough, I didn't know about this experiment and have never tried to destroy the colour myself (on the contrary!). However, when *I* use henna and cassia, *something* is deposited on my hair that makes it thicker and stronger. :D

[Lexie]

It's all good. :) I did try to destroy lawsone, but it's a strong bugger.

[Gothic Lolita]

@jel: Thanls for your advice with then Hennaglossing/Cassia problem. I think I'll do that, my hair is very think anyway!

[Tina]

How do you destroy lawsone? How long does it take?

[khyricat]

my understanding was that someone had tried leaving henna mix in the sun for an entire weekend and was unable to completely destroy the lawsone.. I can't imagine being successful at that.

[dorothea-brooke]

Hi dorothea;
I've used cassia twice now, (I have about 3/4 white hair), and the first time it really did turn my hair a beautiful golden color. I was in too much of a hurry though, and I didn't mix it with juice and let it sit 12 hours. And I only left it in my hair for 45 min. Still, it came out beautifully. So this week I am going to try it by the recipe on mehandi. I'll let you know how it turns out!

Thanks, lynnala! I'll look forward to your report. :)

cheers,
dorothea

[mk11]

I've been using Cassia since last summer, and I really love it. It makes my greys golden and the rest of my hair seems to look much richer.

I steep two chamomile tea bags in a large mug of boiling water for 15-20 minutes. Then I mix enough of it with Cassia to get the gloppy pudding consistency.

I then wash my hair, squeeze out the water, dump the rest of the tea on my hair... squeeze that out a bit and then glop on the Cassia mix.

I put it in a shower cap an put a towel on over that and leave it on for about 3 hours.

Then I get back in the shower, rinse my hair, shampoo with Aubrey Organics J.A.Y. shampoo and condition with Aubrey Organics GPB conditioner.

I add a tiny bit of organic coconut oil to my hair while it's still wet, and when it dries it is so soft and shiny. I just love the color now too. I still can't quite understand how it makes my light brown hair deeper and richer, but it also has great golden highlights in the sun. (Maybe those were gray hairs or something.)

I started off doing the Cassia/Chamomile treatment once a month... but lately I've been doing it every 2 or 3 weeks because I love it so much. And I agree that the effects do seem to be somewhat cumulative.

Oh, and I also use way less than the amount recommended at hennaforhair.com where I purchase the Cassia. I have bra strap length hair and I probably use 25 grams or less per application.

[Lexie]

Prairiechild mixes the henna then boils it. I assume she makes it extra thin to do so. I didn't have the best of luck trying this, but I did try mixing henna with a lot of citric acid then stirred in boiling water. I tested within 5 minutes, I think, and it was very much dead. I just didn't want to put that much citric acid on my hair. But it was interesting how quickly it died. When I boiled it, I didn't add any kind of acid. That was my problem. Even a little would have probably gone a long way. Maybe terping would have a similar effect to acid since it does facilitate faster dye release.

[lynnala]

Okay, today I did a full up cassia treatment. Last night I mixed the dried cassia with orange juice and let it sit all night, today warmed it up a bit in the microwave and applied it to my dry hair. Covered with plastic cap and left it on for 3 hours. Washed it out, conditioned the length, ACV rinse. Here's the results:http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee20/legendhouse/cassiacomparison.jpg
I can really see the difference in the thickness as well as the color! And for anyone who's going to say 'aw, I really like the white hair', don't worry. Nothing sticks in my hair ever. Not even commercial dye. In the 'before' picture I had done the cassia treatment only a month earlier, and it was almost all gone! I think it will probably last longer for others though. I really do it for the conditioning.

[FrannyG]

Wow, Lynnala, that looks great. I also love the extra weight that the cassia gives my hair. It really does feel so much fuller. I've never left it on for 3 hours though. I usually only leave it on for an hour, as I've heard that the conditioning benefits of Cassia work quickly.

[kate46]

Wow Lynnala thats a big difference and so pretty! I've used cassia three times now, I didn't want any colour so I oiled my hair for an hour first, mixed the cassia with just water for 15 minutes then added a couple of tablespoons of conditioner, washed some of the oil out of my hair with a mild shampoo then applied the mix for 30 minutes.
I've used the same method each time, the first two times there was no difference in the colour of my silvers but the third time they turned a pretty beige colour! I don't mind because the colour looked nice and only lasted a week or so anyway, but it does look like there is more affect colourwise with each application.

[Silver & Gold]

Okay, today I did a full up cassia treatment. Last night I mixed the dried cassia with orange juice and let it sit all night, today warmed it up a bit in the microwave and applied it to my dry hair. Covered with plastic cap and left it on for 3 hours. Washed it out, conditioned the length, ACV rinse. Here's the results:http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee20/legendhouse/cassiacomparison.jpg
I can really see the difference in the thickness as well as the color! And for anyone who's going to say 'aw, I really like the white hair', don't worry. Nothing sticks in my hair ever. Not even commercial dye. In the 'before' picture I had done the cassia treatment only a month earlier, and it was almost all gone! I think it will probably last longer for others though. I really do it for the conditioning.

You know I love your silver hair and yet I can see how having a non-permanent change in color would be nice as well, especially if it is conditioning. I'm wondering, how long does it take for the cassia color to fade back to silver again?

[dorothea-brooke]

Okay, today I did a full up cassia treatment.

Beautiful! I am completely inspired now. :D

-- dorothea

[lynnala]

You know I love your silver hair and yet I can see how having a non-permanent change in color would be nice as well, especially if it is conditioning. I'm wondering, how long does it take for the cassia color to fade back to silver again?It probably depends on how porous your hair is, like I said, nothing sticks to my hair. I'll take another pic in a couple of weeks and we can compare again. BTW, I love YOUR hair! You have the hair I always wanted! My hair never ever falls like that, it's always stringy at the bottom, blunt cut, layered cut, whatever!

[Silver & Gold]

It probably depends on how porous your hair is, like I said, nothing sticks to my hair. I'll take another pic in a couple of weeks and we can compare again. BTW, I love YOUR hair! You have the hair I always wanted! My hair never ever falls like that, it's always stringy at the bottom, blunt cut, layered cut, whatever!

I will be keeping my eyes peeled to see your progress. I find it amazing that you can get back to pure silver after the cassia does it's work. I have a lot of silver hair in the front and I would love to see my hair silver throughout like your but I suspect that I will have to wait a while for this as my hair doesn't seems to be sticking where it's at right now.

Thank-you for the compliment on my hair. I don't think it would fall quite like this without a bit of help. I scrunch it and run my fingers through it while it is drying.

I just did a cassia treatment on my hair yesterday. It made my blonder hairs more golden and my silver hairs picked up some color as well. But what I really love is the fluffy softness of my hair afterwards. It's wonderful to touch after a treatment.

[Lucy]

I have very dark hair almost black i use mint tea to rinse it, it cools my scalp nicely, but besides that i see no other effects.
My hair is VERY greasy, and when i wash it it cant last for a day and again it is like i soaked it in oil. Some advice here!!!

[dorothea-brooke]

lynnala, can I ask you how much cassia/OJ you used? I've ordered 400 g, which the mehandi website recommended for BSL hair, but that seems like it might be too much.

thanks!
dorothea

[lynnala]

lynnala, can I ask you how much cassia/OJ you used? I've ordered 400 g, which the mehandi website recommended for BSL hair, but that seems like it might be too much.

thanks!
dorotheaI found I don't need nearly as much as recommended, but my hair is very fine and thin, 100g is just enough for a full application for me. I too ordered 400g, and I'm glad, because now I have enough for a few more applications! I used fresh squeezed oranges from my tree, so can't tell you the exact amount, but I used two oranges, which was just about right, I added warm water to get it to the consistency I like, which I would describe as very thick split pea soup. Oh, and my routine is: I get naked and get in the bathtub with my pot of cassia, put it in my hair, wrap it up good with a plastic cap, then it's easy to wash off any drippings! I'm sure I look ridiculous, but I also make sure there's not going to be anyone around until I'm good and finished!

[lynnala]

I have very dark hair almost black i use mint tea to rinse it, it cools my scalp nicely, but besides that i see no other effects.
My hair is VERY greasy, and when i wash it it cant last for a day and again it is like i soaked it in oil. Some advice here!!!Hi Lucy, if I were you I'd look through the forum for threads that discuss the oily hair problem, I saw one recently.

[kissedbyfyre]

I'll be doing a cassia treatment tomorrow, assuming I can drag the boy away from his smash brothers brawl. I just don't know if I should buy 1 or 2 boxes for my butt length thick hair.

I plan to mix it with an herbal tea, possibly green tea and honey myself. It's basically what I have around, if I had the rest of my herbs on hand I'd play with those but I don't.

I've used cassia in the past but never really experimented with it. I'll no doubt post the results up in my blog and here later on. :) I kind of want to brighten up my hair but apparently that sounds mad to everyone I mention it to. :P

[Rae~]

It's nice to see you back on LHC, kbf. :)

Please do post your results with cassia. I've never had (or should I say, never noticed) any colour effect on my hair, but I'm guessing that's partly because it's fairly dark, and partly because I'm spectacularly unobservant. :D

[kissedbyfyre]

It's nice to see you back on LHC, kbf. :)

Please do post your results with cassia. I've never had (or should I say, never noticed) any colour effect on my hair, but I'm guessing that's partly because it's fairly dark, and partly because I'm spectacularly unobservant. :D

Thanks!!

I will. :) I've never seen any color effects on my hair either, but I guess red hair can't be seen as very light when compared to blond.

[marajade]

Hi Ladies, Just checking in! I'm waiting for my shipment, which I should get on Monday- I hope!

. . Can't wait to try the Cassia!

[Sissilonghair]

:)Hi everyone,I need some help...Last month I did a mix of "chestnut henna",and I had a good result on my gray hair ,but it released to much of the red colour which I don't like.So I decided to try cassia,because I like more the golden tones.After mixing cassia with the chamomille tea and let it rest,I was thinking to put in the mix some whole yougurt and applle cider vinegar and honey for consistency and maybe some essential oil .What do you girls think?Oh my hair is very porous too,so I really hope to cover some of the gray I have.:D

[Silver & Gold]

I found I don't need nearly as much as recommended, but my hair is very fine and thin, 100g is just enough for a full application for me. I too ordered 400g, and I'm glad, because now I have enough for a few more applications! I used fresh squeezed oranges from my tree, so can't tell you the exact amount, but I used two oranges, which was just about right, I added warm water to get it to the consistency I like, which I would describe as very thick split pea soup. Oh, and my routine is: I get naked and get in the bathtub with my pot of cassia, put it in my hair, wrap it up good with a plastic cap, then it's easy to wash off any drippings! I'm sure I look ridiculous, but I also make sure there's not going to be anyone around until I'm good and finished!

I'm still experimenting with my cassia to figure out the best way to use it for my hair. I'm curious as to why you use the orange juice in your mix? Can you explain what this does for hair or it it merely for the scent?

[Silver & Gold]

:)Hi everyone,I need some help...Last month I did a mix of "chestnut henna",and I had a good result on my gray hair ,but it released to much of the red colour which I don't like.So I decided to try cassia,because I like more the golden tones.After mixing cassia with the chamomille tea and let it rest,I was thinking to put in the mix some whole yougurt and applle cider vinegar and honey for consistency and maybe some essential oil .What do you girls think?Oh my hair is very porous too,so I really hope to cover some of the gray I have.:D

Hi there, I'm still experimenting with cassia so I'm kinda in the same boat you are. I think my virgin hair (of which I only have a few inches) is of medium porosity but most of my length is very porous from past use of semi-permanent coloring and one highlighting in December.
I'm very interested in what works for you since it may also work for me. I don't know the answer to your question but I would be terribly interested in hearing about your results.
You mention using ACV, honey and essential oil. Any particular reason you think these ingredients would be good to use in your cassia mix?

[Emme76]

Please, can you help me!!! I am new to all this..but would love to try Henna. I don´t want a color - then it is neutral Henna I should try, and this is the same as cassia??? How often should I use the neutral Henna....?

If you Henna gloss your hair - what is this?
As you notice I never done this before :)!!!!
/Emme

[Silver & Gold]

Please, can you help me!!! I am new to all this..but would love to try Henna. I don´t want a color - then it is neutral Henna I should try, and this is the same as cassia??? How often should I use the neutral Henna....?

If you Henna gloss your hair - what is this?
As you notice I never done this before :)!!!!
/Emme

I'm rather new to this as well. I can tell you that there is no such thing as neutral henna, it is a term used for cassia. Cassia can cause a golden shade to appear on very light or gray hair. The conditioning of cassia doesn't last as long as with henna so it needs to be repeated more often. I also understand the the effect is culmative so at first you might use cassia once every couple of weeks until you get to the place where you need to only do it once every four weeks or so. That's about all I can tell you but I'm sure you'll get other answers.

[Emme76]

Thank´s. I got a tip on another thread to read hennaforhair and it explained all about the cassia....it can be a bit comfusing for a newbie like me...:).
I did order cassia online today, can´t wait for it to get here.
So I guess I should do it every other week to start with..?!

Thank you for the help.....
/Emme

[khyricat]

Cassia is often called neutral henna. it is not the same, but does have some similar properties, though for some people, one or the other works better.. I keep saying I'm going to try cassia between hennas and haven't done it yet...

[Silver & Gold]

You could try every other week to start and see what you think. My belief is there is no hard and fast rule . . . every one has to kind of feel it out for themselves. I'm still working on discovering the best routine for my hair. I get a bit better all the time but there is still some tweaking to do here and there. The issue is complicated by the fact that much of my length has been processed.

I hope you discover what works for you. It helps to read what works for others and why it works and to compare hair types.

[Rae~]

Sissilonghair and Silver & Gold - I am reading with interest about your experiments with cassia to tint hairs golden. I'm afraid I don't have anything helpful to add myself, since with my darker coloured hair I rarely notice any colour difference with cassia alone. But long term, I hope to use cassia to warm up any greys, so I will be watching your results. :)

Emme76 - You probably found the answer elsewhere, but the term 'henna gloss' is often used to describe a treatment where you mix a little henna with conditioner. It doesn't impart anywhere near as much colour as a full henna gloop, but you can definitely still get a tint (as I found out!). I stopped doing them because even the slight tint was too noticeable for me on my old streaks, but gosh the conditioning from them was wonderful.

[Sissilonghair]

Well I did not try my mix yet,but I'll let you know soon.The reason why I would put acv in the batter is to give the hair more shine , e.o to give it a nice smell,honey so the batter results more thick.:)

[Emme76]

Thank´s!

So Rae - I can get the "regular red henna" and just take a bit of it and mix with my conditioner? Or is it the cassia? ....how much henna should I then use?

When I read about henna and cassia - I see pictures of powder - but in the store it is blocks of it. Is there a difference, or just how it is sold?(sorry, all these questions...:rolleyes:)

Sounds like something to try :)!!!!
/Emme

[Rae~]

Hey, don't worry - ask away - there are many knowledgeable people around here who can answer your questions! (I'm not one of them, heh - I know nothing... I'm just holding the fort until they get back. :) )

But yes, a henna gloss uses real, red, henna. I guess you could use cassia instead, but the real point of the gloss is to dilute henna enough with the conditioner to prevent a huge colour change - which isn't necessary with cassia, since the colour is much more subtle anyway. Perhaps someone with platinum white hair might try a cassia gloss.

I have only ever seen henna in powder form, but I have heard of a brand - I think it's Lush? - that sells blocks of premixed henna... maybe that is what you've seen? I don't really know how to use those, but I guess you sort of crumble it into a little water/chamomile tea/whatever you want to use, and mix it up into a paste...? Perhaps someone who has used them, will chime in.

Many people order henna (or cassia, or other herbs) in powder form and mix it themselves - it gives you the flexibility to try a few different combinations and ratios, to work out what suits your hair best. You should only order BAQ (Body Art Quality), as that is pure, high quality henna; some boxed henna sold (especially ones sold as "black henna") can contain dangerous chemicals, or minerals salts, which at the very least will do more harm than good, and at worst can be very dangerous. Be sure you know exactly what you are buying, and the best way to do that is to only purchase from a reputable seller.

ETA1: And as to your question about amounts.... err, I think I used to mix about a tablespoon per 100ml of conditioner.... but I was never really all that scientific with my amounts. I'll have a look around and see if I can find some ratios that others have used.

ETA2: This thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=30383) has some good info on henna glosses.

..

[Silver & Gold]

Today I ran another experiment with cassia. I started by making roughly 2 cups of tea using a large amount of sage and a smaller amount of horsetail and rosemary. The sage was for the color and the rosemary and horsetail because they are supposed to be conditioning and I had some on hand. I made this tea the night before and just let it sit and steep all night.
In the morning I warmed the tea back up and strained it. Then I took roughly 1/3 cup of cassia and mixed with it about 2 Tbls of black strap molasses and about 2-3 Tbls of red wine. Then I added enough of the strained tea to make the mixture like a runny pancake batter. I didn't wish to let the cassia mixture sit too long as I was not interested in obtaining a die release from the cassia.
I used the left over tea to wet my hair. I poured it over my head several times as if I were using the sage to color my hair and I really made certain to soak my hair good. I figured if I could get the sage really soaked in, it would prevent me from taking on too much yellow from the cassia.
After wringing out the excess liquid I detangled a bit and began applying the cassia, sectioning my hair as best as I was able considering how that cassia really grabs and matts the hair as I'm applying it. I smooshed it around a bit to make certain to have full coverage, applied a plastic shower cap over my head and topped that with a turbie. I looked absolutely irresistible and prayed that the UPS man wouldn't make a delivery for fear that he would become overwhelmed with desire by my presence at the door.
I then spent the next 1 1/2 to 2 hours making Masoor Dal and starting some Hing valli Brown Basmati to go with dinner tonight. Might as well get something useful done while I was waiting.
As I said, I'm not certain exactly how long the mixture had been sitting on my head but it was at least 1 1/2 and not more than 2 hours.
I then went to the shower and soaked and rinsed the bulk out of my hair before using conditioner to smooth and get the last bits out of my hair.
Then on the theory that cassia raised the cuticle a bit (I figured that's why the hair feels so thick and fluffy) I decided that this would be an excellent time to try and get some oil deeper into the hair shaft. So after toweldrying I applied EVOO to below the ear first and then smoothed the fragile hair around my temples with what little remained on my hands and ran my hair over the crown area as well.
I think I was right about the oil. My hair feels very strong and full. In the past I didn't use the oil and although my hair felt extremely soft, I also felt that it was a bit fragile. The oil was a good idea, at least for me.
As to the color. I didn't notice anything that one would consider coverage on the gray hair but it did seem to give my hair a nice tone that made the gray hair look more like highlights. In the past, using cassia and camomile recipe I found that it made my hair a rather undesirable yellow tone - not a gentle golden but bordering on clown yellow. The sage tea mixture and possibly the molasses helped cut down the brassy color and gave me a richer tone.
I don't know if a picture will help or not. It's not easy to get a good color read with the lighting in my room and the camera on my PC. But I took a photo nonetheless.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg46/veeless/Photo4-2.jpg

[kissedbyfyre]

Figured I'd update on the Cassia thread.

I did this a few days back. Added warm water, honey and acv to 2 boxes of "neutral henna". Let that sit for 30 minutes, then took my time and made sure every last strand was coated. I wrapped this up in a plastic bag, and a towel and ended up letting it sit on my hair for an hour. The results were awesome. Amazing shine, super thick, lots of volume (which is impressive with how heavy my hair is). Anywho, here's a single photo of the results:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/laughingsatyr/hair/layers.jpg

[MeMyselfandI]

kissedbyfryer -- Very nice. What colour did you start with.

What does cassia dye release look like.

Does the cassia have to stay hot while release dye? Nothing looks different thenn when I added the water 102 F 6 hours ago.

[Silver & Gold]

Figured I'd update on the Cassia thread.

I did this a few days back. Added warm water, honey and acv to 2 boxes of "neutral henna". Let that sit for 30 minutes, then took my time and made sure every last strand was coated. I wrapped this up in a plastic bag, and a towel and ended up letting it sit on my hair for an hour. The results were awesome. Amazing shine, super thick, lots of volume (which is impressive with how heavy my hair is). Anywho, here's a single photo of the results:


Wow, very fine results! Thanks for sharing.

[kissedbyfyre]

kissedbyfryer -- Very nice. What colour did you start with.

What does cassia dye release look like.

Does the cassia have to stay hot while release dye? Nothing looks different thenn when I added the water 102 F 6 hours ago.

That's actually my natural color. :D

Cassia isn't intended to be something that will change anyones color drastically, from what I understand. People with lighter hair tend to report a color change, but anything outside of light blond it won't alter the color. It's intended for it's conditioning properties.

Thanks Silver & Gold!

[marajade]

Hi All, Checking in. . .

Got my shipment today. I think I will probably do my treament tonight or tomorrow.

Will report back with results.

[marajade]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/laughingsatyr/hair/layers.jpg

Mini Hijack!!

Is that an invader Zim shirt??

[marajade]

Ok. . so my hair is still pretty wet at the moment. I steeped 2 bags of chamomile tea and water and mixed it with two packets @ 100g each of cassia and let it sit for 30 minutes. Then I put it on my head mixed with honey for 1 hour. Boy was it heavy!! I'm a little confused though. It feels conditioned but not any more than usual, but it does feel smoother. I did notice my roots are a carmely brown now??!!??? I have a light cinnamon brunette color with blonde highlights and now my roots seem to be a carmely color?? I'm going to wait until my hair dries to pass judgment but I wasn't expecting such a color difference. I might just be imagining it. .

I'll report back tomorrow. .

[khyricat]

I think I'm going to go for it and try using cassia as a washing agent/short treatment this weekend.. I like the idea of the honey mixed with it.. now hopefully I will have the time I THINK I will on Sunday to do this, one of the benefits of my poo bar/tea rinse is how short my hair washing time actually is..

[Rae~]

Extract from my blog, since it's relevant here.

I did a herbal gloop a couple of days ago - approx 50% cassia, 50% amla, mixed with warm water. I made up about 350ml of mix, and it covered my hair fairly well, but not as completely as I would have liked - next time I will make a little more.

Since there's no bathtub in this house, I had to use a bucket to rinse most of the gloop out, which was a little awkward, but still far better than just relying on the shower. I let it airdry until just damp, then applied jojoba oil. It felt *great* after that, but I realised that I actually used a bit too much oil, so I washed it again just two days later (which was today).

It feels good - thicker and stronger - but it's still a little dry. I oiled again today, and bunned, so it should feel better by tomorrow. I thought the amla might have given me a brown tint, but I can't see any.

..

[Lexie]

Thought I'd add that a gloss is a dilution. Doesn't matter if it's in conditioner or something else. Some people gloss with cassia as their base, some with conditioner, some with gelled liquid, and some are even a bit more creative. After trying all three, I prefer the gelled liquid gloss because the consistency, application, and rinsing are just perfect for me.

[marajade]

So on the bottom half of my hair it just made it feel healthier. On the top half of my hair it made it healthier, but seems to have deposited a lot of color that I wasn't expecting. Does this color fade after washing, guys??

[kissedbyfyre]

Mini Hijack!!

Is that an invader Zim shirt??

Heh, no, I wish it was! It's some poorly fitting fire faery type shirt I picked up years ago.

[Rae~]

So on the bottom half of my hair it just made it feel healthier. On the top half of my hair it made it healthier, but seems to have deposited a lot of color that I wasn't expecting. Does this color fade after washing, guys??

I wouldn't have expected a colour change on your hair; interesting. But for those who have noticed a colour change, I've heard it has washed out fairly quickly (ie completely gone within a month).

You used only chamomile tea and cassia, right?

[marajade]

You used only chamomile tea and cassia, right?

Yep, and I'm expecting the color to fade out, so I'm less freaked out now.

[Emme76]

I hope to get my cassia tomorrow or monday.
I read the part about mixing it with honey.

Should I use chamomile tea, and honey??? As you notice...it is my first time...:rolleyes:!!!!!
If I have 1 box of cassia...how much honey and tea should I add?????? Please in tbl spoons since I am swedish :)...

What does it really do? Is it for color or for more shine???

Thank you.....:cheese:
/Emme

[Robinlyn]

I just did a cassia treatment! I usually do one every 6 weeks, but I haven't done one in a few months now! I love the softness and texture of my hair! I use chamomile tea & vo5 condish in the mix and leave it on for 1 hour. No color change on my colored blonde hair or my 3 inch virgin roots (med blonde)! It really makes my hair healthier each time!

[Meli]

I hope to get my cassia tomorrow or monday.
I read the part about mixing it with honey.

Should I use chamomile tea, and honey??? As you notice...it is my first time...:rolleyes:!!!!!
If I have 1 box of cassia...how much honey and tea should I add?????? Please in tbl spoons since I am swedish :)...

What does it really do? Is it for color or for more shine???

Thank you.....:cheese:
/Emme

I have not tried to mix cassia with chamomile tea yet, but I will probably try that next time. I have used water instead. Whatever you decide to use, mix it to a paste that is like yoghurt or pancake batter. I add the liquid a little bit at a time, and add more until I'm pleased with the consistence.

I don't measure how much honey I put in my mix, but I would estimate it is about 3-4 tablespoons to one box of cassia. If you don't want to risk lightening effects from the honey, microwave it for more than 10 seconds but less than a minute.

Cassia is for conditioning and strengthening hair. It shouldn't affect your hair colour. If you are worried about colour, you can collect hair from your brush/comb and make a test before you put the cassia in your hair. By the way, you probably don't need the entire box for your length.

ETA: I just read at another thread that someone used a 50% cassia/50 % honey mix. That was for lightening purpose, but this is much more honey than I used. Seems like there is no problem to mix a lot of honey to the cassia. I might try this!

[MeMyselfandI]

What does cassia (dye released) look like when done over henna or henna/cassia? Does it affect the previous treatments?

For some reason my hair does not feel as thick after the henna/cassia as it did with henna.

How do you know it is time for another treatment?

[khyricat]

I mixed up cassia and then tossed it- I think there is something wrong with what I did.. it seperated.. and didn't seem to mix no matter what I did.. I need to look at what I have better... and maybe buy more, I must have the wrong thing..

Amie

[Henna Sooq]

Hi Amie!

Long time :) So it seperated, that is really weird. I wonder what happened? Was it just cassia and water or what else did you put in? oils? Oils usually blend really well though right into herbal powders as far as I have seen and experienced.

[Tsevoth]

I finally found and bought Cassia yesterday, but it are just the crushed leaves, not the powder.
How can I easily make powder out of this?

[Rae~]

I guess you could crush it into a powder yourself - do you have a mortar and pestle? That would be the easiest way...

[MeMyselfandI]

I finally found and bought Cassia yesterday, but it are just the crushed leaves, not the powder.
How can I easily make powder out of this?

I use a small coffee grinder for making a fine powder of many herbs. If you do not have one, a rolling pin may work.


Where did you find the leaves?

[MeMyselfandI]

I guess you could crush it into a powder yourself - do you have a mortar and pestle? That would be the easiest way...

Rae,

We were posting at the same time. I did not even think of a mortar and pestle. I need to get myself a desent sized one.

[Rae~]

Heh - your coffee grinder idea sounds like less effort, though! :D

[Tsevoth]

I use a small coffee grinder for making a fine powder of many herbs. If you do not have one, a rolling pin may work.


Where did you find the leaves?

I found the leaves in a herb shop in Mechelen, Belgium called "Sophia".
The herbs are from BBK-bio (www.bbkbio.be (http://www.bbkbio.be)) under the dutch name "senne".
You can order it per 100 grams, but also in bulk.

[MeMyselfandI]

Heh - your coffee grinder idea sounds like less effort, though! :D

A royal pain to clean though. Can not use water, so a brush and scrub really hard.

I have never used it for non food related items.

[mk11]

Ok. . so my hair is still pretty wet at the moment. I steeped 2 bags of chamomile tea and water and mixed it with two packets @ 100g each of cassia and let it sit for 30 minutes. Then I put it on my head mixed with honey for 1 hour. Boy was it heavy!! I'm a little confused though. It feels conditioned but not any more than usual, but it does feel smoother. I did notice my roots are a carmely brown now??!!??? I have a light cinnamon brunette color with blonde highlights and now my roots seem to be a carmely color?? I'm going to wait until my hair dries to pass judgment but I wasn't expecting such a color difference. I might just be imagining it. .

I'll report back tomorrow. .

Marajade, did you take any pictures? I am really curious about your color change. Has it faded already?

I have been using Cassia and Chamomile treatments since last summer. (I leave it on for about 3 hours.) I wrote about this on the Cassia thread before the crash but nobody ever commented or seemed to have a similar result...

My hair was light golden brown color with some dark golden blonde highlights and a tiny bit of gray. The Cassia and Chamomile seems to make my grays golden so they are no longer noticeable (it also gets rid of the weird texture problem greys have.)

I still have some nice golden blonde highlights in the sun, but I swear the rest of my hair got slightly darker and the color looks much richer. I have been surprised because neither of those ingredients are supposed to do that. (I buy my Cassia from Hennaforhair.com.)

Even the white towel I use with my Cassia and Chamomile has been stained a rich, medium chocolate brown color. I thought that was odd. I would have expected more of a yellow color on my white towel, if anything. Or maybe the stain color is completely meaningless. I don't know.

Has anybody else noticed the same thing?

Can anyone tell me whether the stain on my white towel would be indicative of the color being deposited on my hair? Sorry if that's a dumb question.

TIA! :)

[khyricat]

Khadija. it was just the cassia and the water, but when I looked at the stuff it doesn't seem to be powdered, I don't remember where I got it but it was local, I'll order some cassia from one of the reliable online places now.. and I trashed that without using it..

Amie

[Tsevoth]

I powdered the dried leaves with a small coffee grinder and this worked really well!

I tried my first Cassia-treatment today, didn't noticed any color change and my hair feels stronger.
Now will just have to wait and see how it works after a couple of Cassia-treatments.

What are your benefits from Cassia and how many time do you leave between treatments?

[MeMyselfandI]

How long after a cassia/henna application can I wait to wash my hair again?

I used a 1:1 henna cassia ratio. I found that my chemically treated hair is not as dark and the hair strands are a lighter brown colour and not opaque. My virgin hair looks much lighter as well. The demarcation line between the chemically treated hair and non treated hair is not as noticiable with the straight henna. All in all, the cassia/henna mixture produced a much more natural looking colour on my hair.

I posted the results in the thread: What type of Henna do you like and why?

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=41630#post41630

[Rae~]

Tsevoth - I find that my hair feels stronger and softer after a few regular cassia treatments. This isn't always as obvious after just one application. I am not particularly regular with my applications at the moment, but previously I did them every month or so. This wasn't a consciously selected time frame, just how often I usually felt like doing them. I think do it as often as you feel like. :)

MeMyselfandI - I *usually* find that since my hair feels so nice after cassia, I tend to go an extra day or so longer than normal before washing again. That said, if I feel I don't get all the cassia out (which is what happens when I don't have a bathtub and have to use the shower and buckets), then I might wash again fairly soon. Last week, I only went two days before I washed again. I don't think there's anything to say that you *should* wait a certain time before washing...?

[Henna Sooq]

khyricat oh ok!!

So when the coffee grinder was used to make the leaves into powder, after mixing it and applying it onto the hair as a paste, was it easy to wash out? Because usually even the powder is sifted afterwards just to get rid of the little sticks and debris. Just wondering if it worked well :)

[Sissilonghair]

Today I ran another experiment with cassia. I started by making roughly 2 cups of tea using a large amount of sage and a smaller amount of horsetail and rosemary. The sage was for the color and the rosemary and horsetail because they are supposed to be conditioning and I had some on hand. I made this tea the night before and just let it sit and steep all night.
In the morning I warmed the tea back up and strained it. Then I took roughly 1/3 cup of cassia and mixed with it about 2 Tbls of black strap molasses and about 2-3 Tbls of red wine. Then I added enough of the strained tea to make the mixture like a runny pancake batter. I didn't wish to let the cassia mixture sit too long as I was not interested in obtaining a die release from the cassia.
I used the left over tea to wet my hair. I poured it over my head several times as if I were using the sage to color my hair and I really made certain to soak my hair good. I figured if I could get the sage really soaked in, it would prevent me from taking on too much yellow from the cassia.
After wringing out the excess liquid I detangled a bit and began applying the cassia, sectioning my hair as best as I was able considering how that cassia really grabs and matts the hair as I'm applying it. I smooshed it around a bit to make certain to have full coverage, applied a plastic shower cap over my head and topped that with a turbie. I looked absolutely irresistible and prayed that the UPS man wouldn't make a delivery for fear that he would become overwhelmed with desire by my presence at the door.
I then spent the next 1 1/2 to 2 hours making Masoor Dal and starting some Hing valli Brown Basmati to go with dinner tonight. Might as well get something useful done while I was waiting.
As I said, I'm not certain exactly how long the mixture had been sitting on my head but it was at least 1 1/2 and not more than 2 hours.
I then went to the shower and soaked and rinsed the bulk out of my hair before using conditioner to smooth and get the last bits out of my hair.
Then on the theory that cassia raised the cuticle a bit (I figured that's why the hair feels so thick and fluffy) I decided that this would be an excellent time to try and get some oil deeper into the hair shaft. So after toweldrying I applied EVOO to below the ear first and then smoothed the fragile hair around my temples with what little remained on my hands and ran my hair over the crown area as well.
I think I was right about the oil. My hair feels very strong and full. In the past I didn't use the oil and although my hair felt extremely soft, I also felt that it was a bit fragile. The oil was a good idea, at least for me.
As to the color. I didn't notice anything that one would consider coverage on the gray hair but it did seem to give my hair a nice tone that made the gray hair look more like highlights. In the past, using cassia and camomile recipe I found that it made my hair a rather undesirable yellow tone - not a gentle golden but bordering on clown yellow. The sage tea mixture and possibly the molasses helped cut down the brassy color and gave me a richer tone.
I don't know if a picture will help or not. It's not easy to get a good color read with the lighting in my room and the camera on my PC. But I took a photo nonetheless.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg46/veeless/Photo4-2.jpg
I'm very inerested on using sage in my cassia,do you use the fresh leaves or the dry ones?:confused:

[Silver & Gold]

I'm very inerested on using sage in my cassia,do you use the fresh leaves or the dry ones?:confused:

I used dried leaves, I don't have access to fresh ones.

[Henna Sooq]

I believe most used the dried powder (cassia obovata) and that works very well.

[Medievalhair]

Where should I get Cassia from? and How long do you wait in between Cassia treatments?

[ilovelonghair]

Where can I buy cassia in Australia (I prefer to buy in a store, not online)?

[Riot Crrl]

It's hard to find in a store. And if you do find it you have to be really careful about what is in it, which is sometimes impossible to find out. If it was there it would most likely be in an Indian import store or grocery of some sort. I can't find it at my local ones. Only some questionable henna, and "amla oil" which is mostly mineral oil.

Medievalhair, there's a bunch of places to order it from. I don't want to start linking but any place that is selling good hair henna often has cassia too. Once you have it, you can use it as much as you want. I've heard of people using it from every two months to every week. But it shouldn't be bad for you or anything, you can use it every day if you have the time and patience (and don't get any mechanical damage rinsing it).

[Ms Monnie]

I've got a slop of three parts cassia, two parts amla and one part fenugreek cooking on my head at the moment. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

I think the amla needed to have been sifted though...

[Sissilonghair]

I used dried leaves, I don't have access to fresh ones.
I'm still waiting to do my cassia treatement because I still have some red colour on my hair from last month henna treatement:(.Next week I think I'm going to try it:rolleyes:.This time I would like to develope some golden tones,so I considered to do the mix with chamomille tea , then add honey and like you said sage but how much should I put in the mix:undecided?Are you sure that the colour would result more golden then yellow?who told you so?Have you ever tried some walnut husk?Why do you stir red wine in the mix ? Sorry for all the question:oops: but I'm very curious and I need to know more about this interesting matter:crazyq:

[Silver & Gold]

I'm still waiting to do my cassia treatement because I still have some red colour on my hair from last month henna treatement:(.Next week I think I'm going to try it:rolleyes:.This time I would like to develope some golden tones,so I considered to do the mix with chamomille tea , then add honey and like you said sage but how much should I put in the mix:undecided?Are you sure that the colour would result more golden then yellow?who told you so?Have you ever tried some walnut husk?Why do you stir red wine in the mix ? Sorry for all the question:oops: but I'm very curious and I need to know more about this interesting matter:crazyq:

I used the sage because I had it on hand and I had heard that a sage rinse is good for toning grays if you have brown hair. So I figured the sage would tone down the yellow in the cassia as opposed to using camomile which enhances gold tones. I haven't tried walnut husk yet, as I said, I used what I had on hand.
As far as amounts, I made a strong sage tea with roughly 1/4 cup of dried sage leaves to 2 cups of water. But this is only a rough estimate, I don't measure, I eyeball it.
I added the red wine because . . . ummmmm . . . well . . . for some reason it occurred to me to try it, I really have no idea. Sometimes I just try things. I think maybe it was because I heard of someone using ACV in their mix and I think I reasoned that red wine might have some of the same properties but with a richer color than yellow to it. Yes, I think this was my thought process at the time.

[Henna Sooq]

As for how often to do cassia treatments you can do it every 2-4 weeks, but if you wait 4 weeks or so that is fine, depending on how you can balance it out and how your hair takes to it without pushing it too much (like dryness etc if that is an issue).

[kimki]

Quick question, what's the benefit of the camomile tea? :)

[MeMyselfandI]

Chamomille tea lightens hair a bit or makes it appear to have a more golden colour. At least when I used it often as a rinse on virgin hair.

I would assume it would darken very light hair.

Chamomile tea can be a bit conditioning. I have never used henna without the chamomile tea. I like the fact that I used it instead of lemon juice. Leamon juice may give better colour results, but how dry would that leave my hair if I left in in my hair for 7 or so hours.

[kimki]

Ahh I thought Chamomile lightens. I don't really want to lighten my hair so maybe I better not use it.

Thank you :)

[Lexie]

I thought only German chamomile lightened. I tried to find some to buy for that reason and all I could seem to find was the seeds. Not planning to have a garden anytime too soon...so they would be useless to me.

[lil_irish_angel]

Ok I tried it and my god I swore I would never do it again it was pure hell getting it out of my hair. I did tried VO5 conditioner to try to get it out it made it even worse. I finally washed it with poo and conditioned it and had to use cones to get may hair untangled.

Well, I wore it up all week and washed this morning cause me hair was really oily. After it was wet it felt amazing and after using Tate's miracle shampoo( I had tried this poo before and hated it) it was even more weird. So for the hell of it I used the Tate's Miracle Conditioner(didn't like how it made my hair feel in the past ) and OMG my hair is perfect today, I thought neutral henna was to thicken hair but it didn't happen to mine. You would have thought my hair today was made pure silk..It lay straight and smooth and no tangles.

We went to the Local trade show today and men all over looked and looked at my hair and smiled at me. it was the weirdest thing in the world. I had other ladies smile at my hair too..

Maybe it was the way it flowed and shined and looked fabulous..

who knows..

Have anyone else had that experience before

[Riot Crrl]

Yep :)

It's generally kind of gnarly the first day or two after, with henna too. Even moreso when I mixed them with lemon juice, but to some degree with just water too.

Then I deep condition it and it's awesome.

[pariate]

Hi everyone

We have crazy snow here in the UK today! It's four inches deep on my balcony. We had blistering sun on Friday and everyone was walking around in shorts and t-shirts in my town. Bizarre...

Anyhoo, I'm posting because I did my second cassia treatment yesterday. I did the first one a few months ago before LHC went down and I'm afraid until it came back up again I lost a little motivation :rolleyes: Oh well, I'm back on track now!

I used about 125g on my post-BSL hair (I'm about an inch beyond BSL now :D ). I made a really strong sage and rosemary tea, and used that for the cassia instead of plain water. I left in my hair for an hour, rinsed a la mermaid in the bath then finished with a CO wash followed by a sage & rosemary tea rinse.

Rinsing in the bath made the whole thing MUCH easier and quicker. Last time I did cassia I rinsed in the shower and it took aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages. So, very pleased with that alteration to my method.

The sage and rosemary tea was fab! Those white hairs I have at the front are sooooo much less noticable. I'd heard about sage darkening hair and now I've witnessed it for myself! :agape: I'm really pleased with the result.

Next time I apply cassia I'll use the sage tea again. I think I'll add some other herbs to the water for softening, something like fenugreek or marshmallow root. I love the strengthening effect that cassia has on my hair, but it does feel a little coarse for a couple of days afterwards. I love the shine and wurly boost I get from cassia. I'm totally sold on this stuff now!

[Rae~]

Rinsing in the bath made the whole thing MUCH easier and quicker. Last time I did cassia I rinsed in the shower and it took aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages. So, very pleased with that alteration to my method.

I completely agree. I hate it when I can't use a bath to help get it out - ugh, it results in lots more tangles and is much less effective at getting all of the gloop out. I also find that washing it out under the shower means my hair looks and feels drier for a few days after (even with oil), whereas if I use a bath, it seems to be glossy pretty much the next day.



The sage and rosemary tea was fab! Those white hairs I have at the front are sooooo much less noticable. I'd heard about sage darkening hair and now I've witnessed it for myself! I'm really pleased with the result.This sounds good. Did you notice any colour change on your non-grey hairs? I might try this myself next time. Where did you buy the sage, and what form was it in - loose, crushed leaf tea?


.

[pariate]

This sounds good. Did you notice any colour change on your non-grey hairs? I might try this myself next time. Where did you buy the sage, and what form was it in - loose, crushed leaf tea?.

Yes, I think all my hair looks slightly darker. A deeper, richer brown :D. I keep preening myself. Must stop that, terribly vain :?

I used sage from my kitchen store cupboard! They were plain old loose leaves, in little bits, if that makes any sense?! I'm going to order some in bulk from Baldwins for next time.

[dorothea-brooke]

I did my first cassia treatment yesterday! I used 100 g (ordered from hennaforhair.com), mixed it with enough OJ to make a thick yogurt-like glop, and let it sit 12 hours since I wanted some dye release to cover grays. I had no trouble getting it out of my hair: I dunked in the tub first, and then showered and poo'ed. It's the next day, and here's my report: I'm very happy with the color; it seems richer and the grays are not so noticeable. My hair is medium blonde with some old highlighting on the ends, and the highlights are definitely darker and more blended in (which looks nice), and the color is deeper and more vibrant to my eye.

BUT: my hair is very dry and tangly! I did a big condition right after shampooing, with my usual Aveda Rosemary and Mint, plus an oiling of EVOO + avocado (two drops on the canopy and ends), and a big sluice of AO B5 gel, but I'm still quite dry. I've heard this can be a problem for a couple of days after cassia. Anyone else have this experience, and have some encouraging words? I'm feeling a bit bummed at the moment.... :eek:

thanks!
dorothea

[Rae~]

My hair always feels drier after cassia, to some extent. Usually, if I've managed to get it all out, that feeling only lasts for about a day or so, but I always oil afterwards anyway. I've now accepted that for me, cassia doesn't result in INSTANT great hair, but it does after a couple of days.

It's been a while since I was in the regular cassia groove, but when I was, I don't recall being distressed by dryness.... perhaps that effect lessened over time? Not sure. Either that, or I just got used to it and didn't notice any more. Over time, regular applications definitely made my hair softer and shinier.

Don't lose hope! :D Even despite the slight dryness, I still prefer my cassia-ed hair over my non-cassia-ed hair.... hopefully you will too. :)

ETA: You might want to try it without any OJ, using water or chamomile tea instead? I have never used it, but I've heard citrus can be drying as well, so that might exacerbate it?

[brok3nwings]

any blondes here applying cassia for colou?

[2BThinAgain]

How much do you think I should use for my pixie short hair...cassia and honey and or Chammoile tea. I have my natural hair white/grey that is showing 1/4 inch growth and the rest is medium brown. I'd love to lighten it too

TIA,
Deb

[Medvssa]

Argh the board logged me out when I hit reply :(

The recipe I have on right now:

1 tbs henna with enough lemon juice to make a paste (left about 10m)
1 tbs melted shea butter
1 tbs melted coconut oil
2 tbs hair mask
1 tbs light (CO) conditioner
3 drops patchouli EO
5 drops rosemary EO
50g cassia
enough strong camomile tea to make a paste

I put on some henna because I wouldn't mind a slightly warmer hue. The EO is there mostly for the smell :D shea and coconut are just the oils that work better for my hair. I made the paste a bit more liquid than commonly advised since I applied to dry hair and my hair absorbs water like a sponge. No drips so far.

My hair has always been very dry and frizzy, it was only nice, smooth and shiny when I used henna (see avatar [Edit: it's not there anymore]) Now I have grown out the henna (I got some white hairs that I wanted to keep white) but my hair is back to its terrible condition (although I try to take good care of it)
So I am trying cassia, if it doesn't work, I'll go back to henna...
I got a lot of cassia from mehandi and I hope it is enough for a good number of treatments.

I will come back to report, hopefully with pictures :D I forgot to take "before" pics, though...

Edit to add:

I always rinsed the henna from my hair first in a bucket of water, just plunging my head upside down into it, up to my ears, and shaking my hair into it. Most of the stuff dissolves into the water, and this made it a lot easier to rinse afterwards, and the hair ends up less tangly. It may be a solution for people that don't want to spend so much water or that do not have a bathtub.
I plan on doing this with the cassia too, of course.

[dorothea-brooke]

Don't lose hope! :D Even despite the slight dryness, I still prefer my cassia-ed hair over my non-cassia-ed hair.... hopefully you will too. :)

ETA: You might want to try it without any OJ, using water or chamomile tea instead? I have never used it, but I've heard citrus can be drying as well, so that might exacerbate it?

Thanks, Rae! :) Very good suggestion about the OJ -- I hadn't thought of that. I used it only because it was what the mehandi site recommended for dying gray hair. But I'm sure chamomile tea or even water would work for dye release if I let it sit for 12 hours? :confused:

cheers,
dorothea

[Rae~]

Actually, I would guess that 12 hours is probably too long, and actually perhaps only about 1hr, maybe 2hrs, would be needed? Then again, that's a bit of a guess since I never pay any attention to any potential colour result - I use it purely for a conditioning effect.

I hope someone else can answer that one for you. :)

[Henna Sooq]

2BThinAgain, not sure if someone answered but you should probably use 50 grams of cassia along with the same amount of honey. You may need some liquid if it's not a good consistency like too thick. so make a bit of chamomile tea,,hhmm how much...like maybe 1/4 cup of water with 2 chamomile bags or loose, strain well and add slowly. Because you don't want it too runny in the end.
I am giving this opinion, based on your avatar picture, and hope that is good!

[FrannyG]

I need some opinions. I usually do cassia treatments once a month to every 6 weeks. 2 weeks ago, I chemically lightened my hair with a one step hair dye and I've been spending the past 2 weeks babying my hair with oils, moisturizers and other deep treatments.

I would like to strengthen my hair with cassia once again. I did a treatment today, but I was wondering if I could get away with doing a cassia treatment once a week for 4 weeks or so.

Does anyone think that might just be too much, or could it be helpful in protecting my chemically treated hair?

[2BThinAgain]

Thanks for letting me know. I'll try it on my really short hair and let you know. Quite busy with filing taxes and moving etc.
Hugs,
Deb

[FrannyG]

Thanks, Rae! :) Very good suggestion about the OJ -- I hadn't thought of that. I used it only because it was what the mehandi site recommended for dying gray hair. But I'm sure chamomile tea or even water would work for dye release if I let it sit for 12 hours? :confused:

cheers,
dorothea

Honestly Dorothea, you don't need 12 hours for dye release with cassia. I find that it colours my white roots pale yellow even when I use it just 20 minutes after mixing, and having it on my head for an hour. I just use chamomile tea as my mix.

If you want serious dye release, I'm quite sure that 1 or 2 hours of dye release would be more than enough.

[brok3nwings]

has anyone experienced intense yellow colour with the cassia treatment? When we look at the experiences that was made by LHCs we see the yellow is really soft and pale but i think i´ve read somewhere people who avoided the cassia colour release because it could make a yellow colour (well pale yellow is not the same as yellow yellow ihih)

[Rae~]

brok3nwings, I have medium dark hair so I certainly don't notice any colour change. I have heard/read of those with very white or platinum blond hair noticing a distinct yellow tinge afterwards, but as for more of a bright yellow, I've not heard of that.

[brok3nwings]

Rae, that is good to hear! I would like to try cassia as it doesnt give any colour..but the only thing that makes me sad is that it lasts not for too long...and i would pay a lot for the shipping!

[pariate]

Rae, that is good to hear! I would like to try cassia as it doesnt give any colour..but the only thing that makes me sad is that it lasts not for too long...and i would pay a lot for the shipping!

Hi :waving:

How come the shipping costs you so much?

[brok3nwings]

pariate, hello ! Well i havent seen how much it would be but im sure it would be a bit more because i live in Portugal. Im not sure of it cause i havent ordered it yet!

[dorothea-brooke]

Honestly Dorothea, you don't need 12 hours for dye release with cassia. I find that it colours my white roots pale yellow even when I use it just 20 minutes after mixing, and having it on my head for an hour. I just use chamomile tea as my mix.

If you want serious dye release, I'm quite sure that 1 or 2 hours of dye release would be more than enough.
Thanks, frannyg! It did seem like an awfully long time to me. Next time I'll go with 2 hours and see what happens. Also, I think I'll experiment with adding some honey and even coconut oil to combat the dryness problem.

cheers,
dorothea

[pariate]

pariate, hello ! Well i havent seen how much it would be but im sure it would be a bit more because i live in Portugal. Im not sure of it cause i havent ordered it yet!

Ah. Have you had trouble finding a supplier? That's a shame. I guess I'm spoilt - very used to be able to find all sorts of herbs over here in the UK. If only I could find UK people that make hair toys as gorrrrrrrrrrrrrrgeous as the ones I see on US websites ;)

[cobblersmaid]

I use 300g. I probably should use more, but I can't afford it. Since it doesn't impart a great deal of colour, I don't have to worry about it being even. I mix it with "sleepytime" tea (mostly chamomile) and a nice glob of honey. It leaves my hair feeling strong, thick, and shiny gold. I can always tell when it wears off, and I can't wait until I can afford to do it again.

[chloeishere]

I've read through this thread over the past few days. What I'm wondering, is has anyone ever tried to grow cassia themselves? Seems like you could get seeds for cheap (assuming you can find them), and just harvest and dry the leaves yourself. It's an idea I've been toying with for a while. Is there any reason that wouldn't work? I know it would take a lot of dried leaves, but even so...

Also, apparently Cassia Obovata is the same as Senna Italica subspecies italica. Does anyone know why one plant would have two scientific names?

[Rae~]

I've read through this thread over the past few days. What I'm wondering, is has anyone ever tried to grow cassia themselves? Seems like you could get seeds for cheap (assuming you can find them), and just harvest and dry the leaves yourself. It's an idea I've been toying with for a while. Is there any reason that wouldn't work? I know it would take a lot of dried leaves, but even so...

I've considered growing henna, since I saw it at the nursery and because I know I would only use a tiny bit.... but if I wanted to grow cassia to produce enough for regular gloops, I think I'd need so many plants it would be... a major undertaking. :D


Also, apparently Cassia Obovata is the same as Senna Italica subspecies italica. Does anyone know why one plant would have two scientific names?

IIRC, I think it was mistakenly identified (separately) as two different plants, and the double-up perhaps wasn't discovered quickly enough, and both names had become commonly used? (This is going purely from memory though, which is likely less than reliable.)

[Jeni]

No idea bout cassia, but I know I was always told Henna only grows in dry hot places (India for example), so unless you lived in a dry hot area, I don't think it would work. (Or maybe you can grow the plant, but the dye isn't good?) Not sure about Cassia, where do the plants originate? If they are from he same area as Henna, you'd most likely run into the same problem. It would be interesting to see if it could be grown and if the final product worked (same conditioning and color). It would probably be way more trouble and money then it's worth to try and do it in someplace like my area.

Jeni

[lil_irish_angel]

Well, post a week since my first cass treatment and used 113 gm and left it one for about 45 min. I really was to impressed with it at first but my cats sure loved it lol. But my hair was dry on the ends and left it bun'd for 4 days and washed like I normally do and I have a color change...Which rocks. I had light blonde down towards my ends and now my hair is darker indeed, and you can see a slight red, from a pic I took from last night for giggles on a Fig 8 bun its changed alright..Im not complaining.

before
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/lil_irish_angel01/_DSC0001_.jpg



after

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/lil_irish_angel01/1st.jpg



Like Im saying Im not complaining

[chloeishere]

I've considered growing henna, since I saw it at the nursery and because I know I would only use a tiny bit.... but if I wanted to grow cassia to produce enough for regular gloops, I think I'd need so many plants it would be... a major undertaking. :D

That was actually what I was wondering about... I wonder how many (dried) leaves to a gram? I'm wondering if it would be practical on a small scale for one person. Like, if I had three mature cassia plants (or something like that, not a whole field full), if that would be enough to provide a fairly regular cassia treatment.
I suspect that the only way to really find out would be to try. But I'm not sure where I can get Cassia obovata seeds... I did a search, and didn't come up with much.
Thanks for the information on the dual names too-- that's probably why, it's just silly. :silly: The whole point of the latin names is that you know exactly what you are getting-- there aren't 20 different latin names like there can be 20 different "common" names!


No idea bout cassia, but I know I was always told Henna only grows in dry hot places (India for example), so unless you lived in a dry hot area, I don't think it would work. (Or maybe you can grow the plant, but the dye isn't good?) Not sure about Cassia, where do the plants originate? If they are from he same area as Henna, you'd most likely run into the same problem. It would be interesting to see if it could be grown and if the final product worked (same conditioning and color). It would probably be way more trouble and money then it's worth to try and do it in someplace like my area.

Jeni

I did a bit of reading on the plant, and it looks like it grows in one of the little eastern coastal states. It's found in Africa and temperate Asia, so since I live in a temperate area, I suspect it could be grown. I'm not sure if the chemical that conditions the hair requires certain conditions to be produced in a good quantity, though. That's an excellent point.
According to wikipedia (maybe not a prestigious reference, but accurate more often than not!), the conditioning part is something called chrysophanic acid.

Another senna, Senna italica ssp. italica (= Cassia obovata), often called "neutral henna", is used as a hair treatment with effects similar to henna but without the red color. The active component is an anthraquinone derivative called chrysophanic acid, which is also found in higher concentrations in rhubarb root. It adds a slight yellow color.


Hmmm. Anyone ever put rhubarb on your hair? :D

Oh, and your hair is looking really nice, lil_irish_angel!

[lil_irish_angel]

Thanks so much "chloeishere" was the Cassa supposed to change color

[Jeni]

Huh, well it would be a cool experiment! I'd try, but I kill plants. It's a guarantee, if it's green and I touch it, it will die :(

Jeni

[Sissilonghair]

So ,I did the cassia treatement,using chamomille tea lemon and honey and e. o. for scent,I still have red shades on my hair :mad:any help ?? I would like to intensify golden tones,should I use more lemon or honey??:confused:

[pariate]

Has anyone other than Dorothea tried mixing oil in with their cassia mix? I'm doing a cassia treatment today and I think I'll give it a go. Goodness knows how much I'll need to add... Time for experiments!

I'd be really interested to hear from anyone who's already tried this please. I'll post back with my results.


:flower:

[Isilme]

I tried to put rhubarb in my hair, smelled awful and didn't do a thing to my colour (I tried to push my henna red more golden)

[emeraldjoy]

I am not sure I can tell a color change lil irish angel. Perhaps it is because of the lighting. I have hair that is similar in color to yours in the "after" pic. I don't think I want darker hair, but I do want strength. I did some serious S&D today and I realized that I need to change something about my haircare.

[Medvssa]

Has anyone other than Dorothea tried mixing oil in with their cassia mix?


I did :) my mix is a few posts behind. I used to put it in my henna mix too because my hair is very dry and henna was pretty drying for me, not so with the oils. After the cassia my hair wasn't particularly dry.

Link to the post: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=53924&postcount=124

[pariate]

I did :)

Thanks Medvssa.

I added about 1tbsp jojoba oil and 1tsp avocado to my 250g cassia (way too much - forgot I only use about half that amount!) but didn't notice a huge difference when I was rinsing. When it was dry it felt amazing... but that might be because I used a different conditioner for CO. I know, I know - I shouldn't try more than one new thing at once because then I don't know which one benefits my hair most! :rolleyes: I'm dreadful with things like that. Such a wally sometimes.

[dorothea-brooke]

Has anyone other than Dorothea tried mixing oil in with their cassia mix? I'm doing a cassia treatment today and I think I'll give it a go. Goodness knows how much I'll need to add... Time for experiments!

Hi, pariate! I haven't actually tried this yet, just wondering if it would work myself. It seems like the best result might be to do the cassia, rinse and shampoo, and then do my usual hot-oil deep treatment. But this would take all day! And I'm too lazy. So I want to experiment with putting some of the hot-oil stuff right in the cassia goo -- I usually use one T. honey and one T. coconut oil, warmed in the microwave. Of course that's only enough for my ends, so if I add some to the cassia mix I might have to up the amounts...?

Anyway, I'm not due for another cassia treatment for a couple of weeks, at which point I'll definitely post my results! :flower:

dorothea

[Rae~]

I'm curious to hear more about this oil-in-cassia-gloop idea, so I look forward to hearing about further experiments! I think I might try it myself next time I do a gloop.

[Jeni]

Ok so I did my first ever cassia yesterday...it was....interesting. Here's what I did.

I used 100gram for my APL 1a i/ii (2.5 pony tail) hair. To it I added warm water, some EVOO, some melted coconut oil and a squirt of Aussie 3MM (it was there so i figured why not). Let me just say now-it stunk. Smelled like rotting hay. I don't mind the smell of henna (I do my hands and feet), or even the smell of hay, but this was just bad. Anyway, I let it sit for 20 mins, no reason really, just worked out like that.

I decided to put it on dry hair (I was too lazy to wet it and frannyg, I believe, said dry worked well fro her). My mother was nice enough to help out, no clue how I would of done it by myself. We sat outside to contain the mess (my neighbors think we are insane now, mom said it looked like she was spreading baby poop on my head). I ended up just holding my hair above my head and slowly dropping chunks down for mom to cover. It didt take very long to do (thanks to mom). I wrapped it up in a plastic bag and a towel and let it sit for about 1 and 1/2 hours. My hair is a light/med blond, wasn't really looking for any color, but wouldn't be upset if I got color.

Rinsing sucked, a lot. I don't have a tub so i kept dunking my head in the sink, mom poured water over my head. ( I had kind of a panic attack was going to have to shave my head, it was that tangled) 1/2 hour later when most of the green was gone (but my hair still felt really gritty) I started adding some cheap suave conditioner and slowly my hair stopped looking like one big dread lock. I used like 1/2 a big bottle. Eventually I got tired to bending over the sink so i loaded the suave on and headed for the shower. I gave up trying to de-tangle and just let the water rinse my hair, once it was pretty clean feeling, but still tangled, i went back to conditioner. I used my normal cone conditioner which worked very well.

I had read cassia can make your hair kind of dry for a day or 2 so I decided to SMT (Aussie 3MM, coconut oil, honey and aloe). I left it on my head for like 3 hours. After rinsing my hair felt great, no tangles and the ends were wonderful. After all the conditioning my hair was a little limp, but today was wash day so I didn't care.

Results- when I washed today I found that I didnt need as much conditioner as normal and I only put my leave in on the very ends (normally I use it all over). When it was dry it was so shiny and soft! I got a lot of compliments at school today. I will definitely be doing it again.

[Gilly]

I need some opinions. I usually do cassia treatments once a month to every 6 weeks. 2 weeks ago, I chemically lightened my hair with a one step hair dye and I've been spending the past 2 weeks babying my hair with oils, moisturizers and other deep treatments.

I would like to strengthen my hair with cassia once again. I did a treatment today, but I was wondering if I could get away with doing a cassia treatment once a week for 4 weeks or so.

Does anyone think that might just be too much, or could it be helpful in protecting my chemically treated hair?

I did Cassia once a week for about 6 weeks and it really helped my hair, I just used a straight Cassia, chamomile tea mix, slopped on and left for 2 hours each time, when I rinsed it out it felt really thick and I did not have to wash it the next day which was a huge bonus for me!
The only time I had problems with it was when I put some oil in it,I found it just did not feel as good and I don't think the conditioning effect was as good, I don't know if the oil blocked it from penetrating the hair shaft or something!! :shrug:
I think I am going to mix some up and slap it on now!!

[pariate]

Ok so I did my first ever cassia yesterday...it was....interesting. ...snip... When it was dry it was so shiny and soft! I got a lot of compliments at school today. I will definitely be doing it again.

Hi Jeni

:lol: Thanks for sharing all this. It's good to hear an account that covers ALL the downsides to cassia (the mess, so much rinsing, how matted it can feel before it's been conditioned) but still ends on a positive "I'll definitely do it again" note :) I'm glad you're so happy with your results.

I can't stand the smell of the stuff either but I love love love the way it makes my hair shine :agree: My hair is very happy right now. I clarified last week, then did a cassia treatment and did an egg and SMT treatment last night. My hair is like silk today!

[Jeni]

Hi Jeni

:lol: Thanks for sharing all this. It's good to hear an account that covers ALL the downsides to cassia (the mess, so much rinsing, how matted it can feel before it's been conditioned) but still ends on a positive "I'll definitely do it again" note :) I'm glad you're so happy with your results.

I can't stand the smell of the stuff either but I love love love the way it makes my hair shine :agree: My hair is very happy right now. I clarified last week, then did a cassia treatment and did an egg and SMT treatment last night. My hair is like silk today!

Your welcome! I like to hear all the good and bad before I do something. I'm glad I read the whole thread and knew rinsing cassia is tough and your hair will be one big mat/dreadlock in the beginning. That kept me from panicking too much. If I hadn't of expected it I would of flipped out and probably cried.

I definitely will be doing this again, and I will follow with an SMT, I would rather have slightly oily hair then dry tangles hair!

Oh i meant to write about the color. I wasn't looking for color, but if I got color that would OK too. After I rinsed I noticed my ends seemed darker, the rest of may hair may of been slightly darker, couldn't really tell. I don't mind the color, it made my ends match the rest of my hair. So then yesterday I was looking at my hair and it seemed very golden blond (It was light/med ash blond before cassia). I know henna color changes after you do it, but I haven't heard of cassia doing that.

Has anyone with blond hair, who left cassia on long enough to color change, notice your hair changing color a day or 2 after you did cassia??

[firebird]

I'm curious to hear more about this oil-in-cassia-gloop idea, so I look forward to hearing about further experiments!

I posted about this in the honey thread, but hope it's ok to jump in and post here too since it's relevant. I've used oil in cassia several times, and much prefer it to straight cassia. Today I did a mix of about 25g cassia, mixed in enough orange juice to make a thick paste, then after leaving it for an hour I added about 3 generous tablespoons of EVOO and 3 of honey. It doesn't seem like much cassia, but with the other ingredients it covers my hair pretty well and still has effect. I left if on for two hours. To rinse, I just stand under the shower and let it run off, the shampoo twice with cheapo White Rain. It's super easy to rinse out and doesn't tangle at all (I don't use conditioner as my hair doesn't like it). Afterwards, my hair feels thick, smooth and soft, and I have hardly any of the dryness I had when I used cassia alone. I'm sure it's the EVOO (and honey?) which make it so easy to rinse and stops the dryness. I had thought that much EVOO would make my hair oily, as it's prone to oiliness, but it doesn't at all. For me, there is no reduction in the conditioning effects of cassia. I have blonde hair and it is maybe slightly darker now, there are pictures in the honey thread if anyone is interested.

[MermaidGirl]

I'm very interested in using cassia to thicken up my fine hair. However, I just paid an ungodly amount of money for highlights and a trim, so I am definitely NOT looking to change the color! Right now with the highlights, my hair is a darkish, carmel-y blonde.

Anyone have any suggestions for a mixture for me that would not change my hair color (I don't want to go darker, lighter might be OK, but I don't want red or too much yellow)? My hair is about BSL and probably a (i) in thickness. Thanks in advance! :love:

[Riot Crrl]

MermaidGirl I think that you should strand test a sample of cassia. If you can, preferably on some of your lightest hair.

When I embarked on the plant based hair dye ride, my hair was a medium dyed blonde. It sounds like a lighter color than your hair is now.

I never got any color out of cassia. And I tried! I since read that it can take multiple applications to build up. I would have tried that if I had known while I was still a blonde. Too late now LOL HENNA.

If you find you like the treatment on your strand and don't see any color change, you may want to subject your strand to repeated cassi-ings, so you know what to expect with more applications.

[MermaidGirl]

Great advice, Riot Crrrl, thank you so much for responding! I will give that a try and see how it works out! :)

[dorothea-brooke]

Hi everyone! I just posted a new pic of my post-cassia hair on the main board (I actually did the treatment a few weeks ago, and the pic was taken right after), and realized that I never posted it here! :o So here it is:

Post-Cassia (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/maggie-tulliver/post-cassia.jpg)

I posted my actual experience/results upthread, but thought you might like to see the results!

cheers
dorothea

[Jeni]

OOO! I like your hair color!

OK so I have a question for all of you who have done cassia treatments. I did one the other day, my hair felt and feels amazing, but I have noticed a few things.

I have always had oily roots, but for the past few months I have been washing 3-4 times a week, my roots still look greasy, but they aren't as bad as they use to be. The length usually looks OK for 2-3 days after I wash it. Since doing cassia, however, the whole length of my hair looks greasy the day after I wash it. I'm using the same stuff (CWC with cones). If anything I'm using less conditioner and less leave in.

I usually try and do a deep overnight coconut oiling the night before I wash my hair. I usually coat my hair in oil and braid it, i have never had an issue getting the oil out of my hair. I did my first over night oiling since cassia, when i went to wash my hair, it felt coated. First I tried to use my reg shampoo, but it didnt even suds, and hair still felt coated. SO then I used some clarifying shampoo, that helped somewhat. I just used a little bit of conditioner and only left it on my hair for a minute before resting. My still felt coated and kind of "grabby". I just put it up and ignored it for the day. It felt better after I washed it again.

So have any of y'all had this happen? Does cassia "coat" the hair? That might explain why my hair get oilier fast and doesn't "suck up" the oil. I still love cassia and will keep doing it, just wondering if this is normal, guess I'll have to change my routine.

[Riot Crrl]

I never had any issue uptaking any sort of moisture after either cassia or henna, but I tend to judge more off of how moisturized the hair looks and feels, rather than what it didn't uptake and is left over on the outside of it.

Rather than the cassia causing imperviousness, I would find it more likely that it created less of a need for moisture and oil, so the hair just didn't drink as much as it normally did.

The shampoo not sudsing sounds like just a result of oil being on there, to me. Like not enough Dawn on a greasy pan.

Also, after cassia or henna, my hair seems to be kind of beat up for a day or two. It always bounces back, and the ultimate result is always well worth it, but I can't deny that my hair seems annoyed after hours of mud and 30 minutes of strenuous rinsing. After resting and moisture, it is always better than it ever was.

[Jeni]

I never had any issue uptaking any sort of moisture after either cassia or henna, but I tend to judge more off of how moisturized the hair looks and feels, rather than what it didn't uptake and is left over on the outside of it.

Rather than the cassia causing imperviousness, I would find it more likely that it created less of a need for moisture and oil, so the hair just didn't drink as much as it normally did.

The shampoo not sudsing sounds like just a result of oil being on there, to me. Like not enough Dawn on a greasy pan.

Also, after cassia or henna, my hair seems to be kind of beat up for a day or two. It always bounces back, and the ultimate result is always well worth it, but I can't deny that my hair seems annoyed after hours of mud and 30 minutes of strenuous rinsing. After resting and moisture, it is always better than it ever was.

I was hoping it is simply my hair doesn't need as much moister anymore. It definitely feels healthier, and the ends are soft. My hair wasn't really mad at me after cassia. I had heard about how your hair can feel dry sometimes after cassia, so I SMTed. No dryness at all. My hair has felt great from day one.

Can you over do cassia? I wouldn't think so, but figured I'd ask.

[Riot Crrl]

Good job on the SMT lol, I usually have to do something like that right after either cassia or henna. Curls can be sort of a built in gauge for these things. I never got permanent curl relaxing, but the day after mud I sure did. Came right back with enough moisture, though.

I've hennaed twice in a 24 hour stretch before, and another time left it on 18 hours. I think as long as you and your hair and scalp are not annoyed with the feeling, smell, color, or anything else, there is no real "too much." And, not leaving the same application on so long that something like mildew would become a risk, lol. Anything under a day should be all right.

[Jeni]

Yea, I was definitely glad I SMTed (and it came out well, the first time did not). I was thinking about doing another cassia this weekend (I did one about a week ago), for a few reasons. 1 being, Im bored, when Im bored I tend to do stuff to my hair. In the past that would be dye it some odd color, cut it, curl it, etc. I figured cassia wont be harmful, and it will give me something to do (Im putting off final studying and research paper writing). 2- My hair felt great after the first cassia, I would think it would feel even better after the second. And 3, Im heading to NC for a few weeks, I want my hair to look fantastic so my grandmother will have less negative things to say about my hair (she thinks anything past shoulders is looooooong and looks bad).

[Medievalhair]

Has anyone tried using red tea with Cassia?

I'm planning on buying some soon. I want to bring out my red tones.

[Jeni]

Do a strand test. I used organic black chai tea and that gave me a red (think henna colored) color.

[Medievalhair]

Do a strand test. I used organic black chai tea and that gave me a red (think henna colored) color.

Ok I'll do that first, before do anything else.

[Jeni]

Yea it depends on how red you want, you could add some henna. I was thinking of adding just a tiny amount of henna to my cassia, like a tbl to 100g. I would like a slight strawberry blond, but I'm scared to go too red. I know henna is strong, so I will have to do some strand tests before I try it on my head.

Jeni

Hi in N. VA!!!!! Yea, I'm a dork.

[Medievalhair]

Yea it depends on how red you want, you could add some henna. I was thinking of adding just a tiny amount of henna to my cassia, like a tbl to 100g. I would like a slight strawberry blond, but I'm scared to go too red. I know henna is strong, so I will have to do some strand tests before I try it on my head.

Jeni

Hi in N. VA!!!!! Yea, I'm a dork.

Yea I already have red tints that show on certain occasions, but I don't want to use henna.
I have medium to dark brown hair.

[Tapioca]

So, after good results with a weak 50/50 cassia and conditioner run, I went for a full cassia-ing this weekend. 4 oz of cassia from Whole Foods, mixed with chamomile tea. I added a 2 oz pack of henna and placenta to help me rinse it out easier, and a dropperful of violet oil for the smell. Made a hideous mess of the shower applying it all and kept thinking "at least it's not henna". Put on a plastic baggie, a ski cap, and a towel, and sat. No drips.
I did a mermaid soak in the tub to loosen it all up, and had to laugh when I sat up in the tub. The water'd gone all green and looked like something out of Swamp Thing. About half a bottle of conditioner later, it was all rinsed out. I left it down and hopped in the car for an hour or two drive to IKEA. (I love that place. I wish there were one closer.) By the time I got there, it was mostly dry and ... icky. Straw-like, dry and grabby. Just as I'd been warned. So I tossed it into a twist and went about my business. Gave it a serious oiling with coconut oil when I got home and put it up into a braided bun. Saturday and Sunday, still icky. Today, it's wonderful. Soft, shiny, silky. Everything I wanted. In certain light, it looks like there's been a color change, but not in others. It also seems to have pulled some of my wavies out. It's much straighter. Overall, I'm very happy. Now I'm tempted to put a teaspoon of henna in my next mix. Have to start saving hairballs for a strand test.

[Treecrown]

Just wanted to mention that a teaspoon of henna might be safe but a tablespoon of henna is A LOT if you have medium to light-colored hair....

[Jeni]

More cassia and oil, in case anyone cares.

So I did a second cassia. This time I added a stick (~tsp) of honey (cause why not?), maybe 2 or 3 tbl of EVOO, and something like 4 tbl of coconut oil (solid, mounded up, so it was probably more like 5 or 6), a squirt of 3MM and a few squirts of some Dove daily moister conditioner(it helped cut the rotting hay smell, a lot). I added enough warm water to make it like loose cake batter. It didnt run off the spoon like liquid, but it was a lot runnier then last time (think set pudding, last time). I left it on for 2 hours, covered with a plastic bag and a towel. Making it looser made applying much easier and I didnt need as much.

Rinsing it was a lot easier. It still was no pick nick, but it didnt take nearly as much conditioner or water, to turn it from matted dreadlock to hair. Once rinsed it felt dry, but not nearly as dry as the last time. I still SMT'ed ( I think my hair doesn't love honey, I added 2 sticks this time, my hair didnt feel as moisturized as the last time with 1, anyway).

After it was all said and done, my hair feels really nice, my hair isn't nearly as tangled as normal, and the shine is fantastic. Now I was told cassia makes hair nicer each time you use it, so maybe this has more to do with the multiple applications and not the extra oil, don't know. What I do know is the extra oil made rinsing easier, so I think I'll keep it up! Maybe if I can ever find other oils I will try them. Where do you find avocado/shea/etc oil?

Jeni

Oh and I don't think I noticed any color change. I took a picture of my hair before I did it, so I will have to compare. It may be slightly darker, but maybe not. I'd kind of welcome a darker more honey color....

[blackfrostqueen]

I'm just wondering, I've been debating to try cassia for a while now - read what I can on it, but a question came to mind to day with everyone saying that cassia helps achieve silky, shiny and smooth hair...does cassia help get rid of fly-aways or a fuzzy appearance to hair?
With summer approaching I'm starting to dread the dry fuzzy (almost static like) look that I normal get with the summer heat, and I was wondering if cassia would help.

[prosperina]

I just did my second full head (or as close to full head as I can get) cassia treatment. Last time, I automatically oiled immediately after getting out of the shower, not on purpose just as a sort of a conditioned reflex. My hair was nicer that time. This time, it's not bad, just funny....The ends were super dry, so I had to jojoba oil them, but my hair felt rougher. And my thin already damaged whispy ends looked yucko. What's interesting is the hair that doesn't have bleach under its henna, looks and feels much nicer than the more chemical dye frazzled ends. It's odd.

I think parts of my hair do look lighter though. I'm gonna put oil in the next cassia; I think that may help. I also washed it out with the strongest, most cloying sweet conditioner I own, and that helps with the lingering smell.

Now, a question. Why in the world does cassia make hair fuller? I don't think it's the appearance of fuller hair, because I measured mine and it is noticeably fuller. (Usually 4-4.25 pony circumference, now around 4.75) I couldn't get anything in it today but my large maxima ficcare, and even without toys I couldn't properly wrap my bun. I'm not bragging or anything, because honestly I find it annoying. I wonder if cassia doesn't rough up the hair cuticle a bit....and I wonder how good that is? Still plan on using it, but my hair *almost* looked like a hay stack. Mostly pretty and full, but dangerously close to not.

ETA: I added honey and chamomile tea

[Tangles]

A couple questions:

Is cassia okay for hair that isn't long yet? In other words, will it help growth?

Where do you buy cassia? I don't really feel like ordering online.

Does cassia stain hands/bathroom surfaces, is it messy like henna?

[blackfrostqueen]

Does cassia stain hands/bathroom surfaces, is it messy like henna?

I've read that cassia can stain white surfaces, but anything darker I don't think so. Sorry I don't know too much about cassia to help with the rest of your questions.

[Jeni]

Is cassia okay for hair that isn't long yet? In other words, will it help growth? I'm not sure if it will help it grow faster. I have only done it twice. I may make your ends nicer, meaning you wouldn't have to trim as much....it does for me at least.

Where do you buy cassia? I don't really feel like ordering online. Cant help you there, I order mine from H4H, sorry

Does cassia stain hands/bathroom surfaces, is it messy like henna? I get my mother to goo me outside, so we don't worry about slopping it on the bathroom floor. So far it hasn't stained my towels, we use old ones just in case one day it does. I don't get any staining or anything when washing it out. Yes its messy. I don't henna my hair, but I do henna my hands and feet and it's about the same consistency of henna, looks a lot like it too, smells worse though. It doesn't stain (or stain anywhere near as badly) as henna so in that aspect its less messy.

[chloeishere]

I've heard that you can buy cassia from places like Whole Foods and Indian stores. I haven't actually gotten any myself, though-- sorry!

Speaking of this, I've done more searching for cassia obovata seeds, and I haven't had ANY luck. So I'm giving up for now.
I did find a store near work (it's not just an Indian store, it's a "global food" store). I'm going to check it out soon-- either after work or school. I don't know if they carry henna or cassia, but I figure it's worth a look. All the other Indian stores are really far away!
What I'm wondering is, what are reputable brands? I don't want to order online because I don't want to pay shipping.
I did a search on amazon-- has anyone used these with good results?
I've heard mixed things about Rainbow (http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Research-Henna-Persian-Neutral/dp/B000F8HZQE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1209860204&sr=8-1)-- but as henna, not as cassia. I believe it's because they claim to be "henna," but come in different colors-- so it obviously isn't pure henna.
Surya (http://www.amazon.com/Surya-Henna-Neutral-Powder-Grams/dp/B000BIZSTY/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1209860204&sr=8-2) comes in tiny 50 gram packages-- but does say it doesn't contain metals, etc.
Light Mountain (http://www.amazon.com/Hair-Color-Henna-Neutral-oz-Powder/dp/B00028LUT0/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1209860204&sr=8-3) seems to be a likely find, but I don't know if anyone has used it.
Hennalucent-- in powder (http://www.amazon.com/Hennalucent-Hair-Color-Neutral/dp/B000142LDE/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1209860204&sr=8-5) and I think this is a different form (http://www.amazon.com/Hennalucent-Neutral/dp/B000A408IA/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1209860204&sr=8-4), but I'm not sure. I wouldn't get anything that wasn't a powder, depends on what the box says.
I found another one, Logana-- but it included an ingredients list which was decidely not pure, and warned that it could turn blonde hair green, due to the high amounts of chlorophyll! :confused: No thanks!

Has anyone used any of these, or see any red flags that indicate they shouldn't be tried? I don't know if I'll find any of them at the global grocer, but I may go to Whole Foods eventually if I can't find anything, and I'm pretty sure they carry Rainbow and Light Mountain.


ETA: since I'm still the last post. I went to the global food market today, and while they did have one type of henna ($1.69 for 100 grams) they had no cassia at all. And I checked several times. I did buy some Vatika oil, and some fenugreek powder, though! The Dabur Amla and other hair oils, besides vatika, contained mineral oils, so I didn't get those. I think I might resort to amazon... I am getting more and more interested in cassia! And Whole Foods is really far away.

[Tapioca]

I've used Light Mountain and Hennalucent. Light Mountain was found at Whole Foods, and it worked just like I expected. A few days of dry, tangly mess, then wonderfulness. I found Hennalucent at a beauty supply place and tried it last night with a tablespoon of henna. It mixed up into a gooey mix, somewhat like what I think the gelled henna is like. Much less messy to work with and rinse out, but I don't feel the dry tangles, which makes me think that it just didn't work.
Cassia is a horrible mess, but I apply it in the shower and rinse myself and the shower off right away. And it doesn't stain surfaces, but some drips did stain my towel greenish.

[chloeishere]

Thank you, Tapioca! So Light Mountain is probably okay-- the store I'm checking out first appears to be busy (the riverfront times called it a tourist attraction, oddly enough), so their supplies are probably pretty fresh-- which I know is a concern with store-bought henna-type things. Hennalucent sounds a bit like Henna 'n' Placenta, which I think is very gelly-ish. Did it have other ingredients listed on the box? Did you notice?
Let me know if you change your mind on the hennalucent!

[chloeishere]

I have a question-- I ordered some light mountain cassia off Amazon (I couldn't resist free shipping), which should arrive in a few months. (Just kidding-- I'm impatient, and the shipping estimate isn't until the 12th, argh!)
I'm planning on mixing some of the fenugreek powder that I got at the store with the cassia, when I apply the mud. I did a search, but the only person who actually mentions using fenugreek in their mix (Ms Monnie) never updated again to say how well the mix worked. I know fenugreek is supposed to be conditioning and add slip, but I don't know any other traits, off the top of my head.
Has anyone used fenugreek in their cassia mix? Did it work well? What ratios did you use?

Thanks! :flowers:

[Ms Monnie]

Oops, my bad chloeishere!

I really like using fenugreek for the slip and conditioning. I would look in the Indian herbs thread and the article for properties of methi as it's the same thing and more informative than I am! :D

ETA: Ratio... oof. I use anything from 1/5 to 1/3 in a mix, 1/3 would be for a general Indian mud mix not a cassia though.

[chloeishere]

Thank you for the update, Ms Monnie! I hope that didn't sound rude, I just did a name search and never saw anything come up after the "I'm muddy" post. :D
I'll definitely give the indian herbs thread a look over (I did generally, after I got the fenugreek... is it weird that I think it smells like maple syrup AND a bit like curry?)
I was thinking of a 2 to 1 ratio of cassia to fenugreek, so it sounds like maybe less fenugreek than that would be a good idea. But I'll do more research. Thank you again!

[Velouria]

I did a search on amazon-- has anyone used these with good results?
I've heard mixed things about Rainbow (http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Research-Henna-Persian-Neutral/dp/B000F8HZQE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1209860204&sr=8-1)-- but as henna, not as cassia. I believe it's because they claim to be "henna," but come in different colors-- so it obviously isn't pure henna.

Light Mountain (http://www.amazon.com/Hair-Color-Henna-Neutral-oz-Powder/dp/B00028LUT0/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1209860204&sr=8-3) seems to be a likely find, but I don't know if anyone has used it.


I use Rainbow Marigold Blonde with good results, its ingredients are just "neutral henna" (looks, smells like cassia) calendula, and chammomile. It does seem to add more golden tones than the straight cassia I used to get from Mehandi, but it's not as finely sifted. It definitely couldn't actually dye anyone's hair blonde unless they had white hair. I imagine the plain neutral from Rainbow is fine, also.

I've never used Light Mtn. Neutral, but I used their reds years ago, they were fine, a bit better sifted than Rainbow(but not like BAQ). They do list their ingredients by the correct botanical names, are all herbal, and don't claim any of their colors are pure henna, besides the red and bright red. I'm sure their cassia (neutral henna on the box, cassia on the ingredients list) is fairly good.

Another, way cheaper option is to buy the bulk herb powder, usually sold as senna, which is sold for medicinal purposes, usually as a laxative. Cassia angustifolia, cassia obovata, cassia auriculata are all commonly sold as senna or senna alexandrina. They all have almost entirely the same constituents, and the chrysophanic acid that gives the laxative effect is also the coloring molecule. This stuff has the worst sift of all though, as it's intended to be put in capsules or brewed as tea. That's why I quit using it except when I want to do cassia with coconut milk...that makes it easier to apply and rinse. Other than the relatively coarse grind, it works great.

[Velouria]

I've used fenugreek in henna and cassia mixes...I love it, it exudes this mucilage that really helps turn the muds into something more gel-like; if you let it sit after mixing for a bit you get the most of this effect. Very conditioning, and it's reputed to add some gold tones...I can't really comment on that, as I've always used it combined with other gold-dying plant matter it's hard to know which of them is having that effect.
It's mucilage also makes a small amount of cassia (or henna) go a looong way, and it makes the muds actually greatly swell in size! The 1st time I used way too much, and my henna overflowed its bowl! I went down to a 12-1 ratio of other herbs to fenugreek, and it still does its thing at that tiny amount.

[shellblue1]

I just bought some Light Mountain Neutral Henna (cassia) from Whole Foods. It was around $6.50. I'll try to update after use.

[freznow]

Anybody know if the morroco method neutral henna is just cassia?

[chloeishere]

Oh wow, this thread has been hopping! This is wonderful!
The, er, "filler" on my amazon order that I used to get free shipping (I'd normally get a book or two, but I have about 12 library books right now, so I'm not in the mood to browse) is a mortar and pestle set-- since I've never owned one, and I've often thought it would be useful.
If the light mountain is a bit "coarse," could I use the mortar and pestle to grind it more finely? It's made of porcelain.
I wonder if that would also be possible with the rough ground "senna" powder. I did see tea made of senna listed on ebay when I was still looking for cassia seeds-- but I wasn't sure if it would work for conditioning purposes. This is fantastic information, thank you Velouria!!
Thank you so much for the added info on fenugreek too-- I looked it up on the indian washing thread, but didn't get too much info on ratios. I'll try it at about a 1 to 5 ratio to start, I think. I was already planning on letting it sit a bit (I don't necessarily want the coloring, but I don't mind it, either), so this gives me more reason to do it.

I'm excited to hear about your results, shellblue1! Especially since it looks like it'll be at least a week till I get to cassia, myself.

Can't help with the morocco method stuff, freznow. But since I had a little blurb for everyone else, it didn't seem fair to leave you out. So hi! :waving::wethree:

[SpiralingWaves]

I've never used cassia before and have been reading this thread with great interest. I was wondering of those of you who use it with amla if you've noticed a boost in waves/curls as well as body (though I know cassia is supposed to make hair thicker thus giving more body as a result)? And do you use heat with this?

[Velouria]

I use Rainbow Marigold Blonde with good results, its ingredients are just "neutral henna" (looks, smells like cassia) calendula, and chammomile. It does seem to add more golden tones than the straight cassia I used to get from Mehandi, but it's not as finely sifted. It definitely couldn't actually dye anyone's hair blonde unless they had white hair. I imagine the plain neutral from Rainbow is fine, also.

I've never used Light Mtn. Neutral, but I used their reds years ago, they were fine, a bit better sifted than Rainbow(but not like BAQ). They do list their ingredients by the correct botanical names, are all herbal, and don't claim any of their colors are pure henna, besides the red and bright red. I'm sure their cassia (neutral henna on the box, cassia on the ingredients list) is fairly good.

Another, way cheaper option is to buy the bulk herb powder, usually sold as senna, which is sold for medicinal purposes, usually as a laxative. Cassia angustifolia, cassia obovata, cassia auriculata are all commonly sold as senna or senna alexandrina. They all have almost entirely the same constituents, and the chrysophanic acid that gives the laxative effect is also the coloring molecule. This stuff has the worst sift of all though, as it's intended to be put in capsules or brewed as tea. That's why I quit using it except when I want to do cassia with coconut milk...that makes it easier to apply and rinse. Other than the relatively coarse grind, it works great.

Quoting myself here because I want to take back my recommendation of Rainbow Marigold Blonde. I did a mud-pack today to correct the slightly too-cool red my henna is giving me, and realized during rinsing that the Rainbow is full of sand. I could see and feel it in the sink after the water drained...just like when you've been to the beach. I'd used it before, but only a smaller amount mixed with henna, and I didn't notice the sand then.

Now, I know that cassia is grown in countries that tend to have sandstorms, but the cassia from Mehandi and even the cheap, unsifted, laxative cassia do not contain any sand. In fact, even though the Rainbow is ground finer than the medicinal cassia, it's more unpleasant to apply and rinse because of the sand. It also seems as though running sand through your hair is likely to be damaging.

I think maybe Rainbow gets a deal on the cassia that is too sandy to be sold as a medicinal herb. In any case, I'm not about to pay Mehandi's prices again, so it looks like it'll be the laxative grade for me henceforth!

[Velouria]

If the light mountain is a bit "coarse," could I use the mortar and pestle to grind it more finely? It's made of porcelain.
I wonder if that would also be possible with the rough ground "senna" powder. I did see tea made of senna listed on ebay when I was still looking for cassia seeds-- but I wasn't sure if it would work for conditioning purposes. This is fantastic information, thank you Velouria!!



I tried powdering senna finer in my mortar and pestle; it didn't seem to make any difference. I think that any of the herb powders sold are already ground finer than they could be ground by a mortar & pestle. I'm planning on trying to sift out the coarser bits with a flour sifter soon. I'll post back with a verdict. Oh, and I don't think you'll have a real problem with the Light Mtn. It's ground pretty fine.

[Rae~]

I've never used cassia before and have been reading this thread with great interest. I was wondering of those of you who use it with amla if you've noticed a boost in waves/curls as well as body (though I know cassia is supposed to make hair thicker thus giving more body as a result)? And do you use heat with this?

My experiments are far from exhaustive, but I have added amla to cassia quite a few times. I'd read the same reports you probably have, and thought it worth a try, but I can't say I saw any significant increase in curl/wave. It did tame the frizz a little, perhaps?

I do tend to leave my hair more untouched for a couple of days after a gloop, so it is slightly more wavy than "normal" (seeing as I normally damp bun / comb out the waves as much as possible)... but I don't know how much if any to attribute to amla.

[SpiralingWaves]

My experiments are far from exhaustive, but I have added amla to cassia quite a few times. I'd read the same reports you probably have, and thought it worth a try, but I can't say I saw any significant increase in curl/wave. It did tame the frizz a little, perhaps?

I do tend to leave my hair more untouched for a couple of days after a gloop, so it is slightly more wavy than "normal" (seeing as I normally damp bun / comb out the waves as much as possible)... but I don't know how much if any to attribute to amla.

Well hrmph. Then perhaps it will be worth doing just because amla is a conditioning herb. It can't hurt, and then I can see what it does. Thanks for your reply Rae! You have beautiful hair and waves. :-)

[SpiralingWaves]

Quoting myself here because I want to take back my recommendation of Rainbow Marigold Blonde. I did a mud-pack today to correct the slightly too-cool red my henna is giving me, and realized during rinsing that the Rainbow is full of sand. I could see and feel it in the sink after the water drained...just like when you've been to the beach. I'd used it before, but only a smaller amount mixed with henna, and I didn't notice the sand then.

Now, I know that cassia is grown in countries that tend to have sandstorms, but the cassia from Mehandi and even the cheap, unsifted, laxative cassia do not contain any sand. In fact, even though the Rainbow is ground finer than the medicinal cassia, it's more unpleasant to apply and rinse because of the sand. It also seems as though running sand through your hair is likely to be damaging.

I think maybe Rainbow gets a deal on the cassia that is too sandy to be sold as a medicinal herb. In any case, I'm not about to pay Mehandi's prices again, so it looks like it'll be the laxative grade for me henceforth!

Eek .. I just picked up the Blond Rainbow Henna, which is supposed to be cassia and chamomile. I was hoping to do a treatment with it to tone down any purple coloring I was getting from henna. I wonder if Light Mountain cassia is any better?

ETA: Oops, didn't see this post earlier. So, I think it should be worth a try? Otherwise, I will order the more expensive cassia from Catherine.
I tried powdering senna finer in my mortar and pestle; it didn't seem to make any difference. I think that any of the herb powders sold are already ground finer than they could be ground by a mortar & pestle. I'm planning on trying to sift out the coarser bits with a flour sifter soon. I'll post back with a verdict. Oh, and I don't think you'll have a real problem with the Light Mtn. It's ground pretty fine.

[chloeishere]

Great information, Velouria!
I, er, actually ended up buying a lot (er... 5 pounds) of the medicinal stuff, and cancelled the Light Mountain order and got some kitchen stuff instead. I do have a mortar and pestle coming, though, so I may try it anyway. Just for the heck of it.

Good to know about the Rainbow! Sand?! Well, silica is supposed to be good for the hair. When taken orally, though!

I figure that the medicinal senna has to be pretty pure-- I mean, if it's going into the body, they can't exactly add fillers and metallic salts, right? So there is that. I still find it kind of odd that there's a big enough market in the US for a strong, herbal laxative, but go figure!
Estimated time of arrival on the senna is May 13th... I'm really impatient to try it out!

I'm totally going to measure my ponytail circumference before and after the treatment. Thicker hair would be a huge bonus!

[Velouria]

[quote=SpiralingWaves;102344]Eek .. I just picked up the Blond Rainbow Henna, which is supposed to be cassia and chamomile. I was hoping to do a treatment with it to tone down any purple coloring I was getting from henna. I wonder if Light Mountain cassia is any better?
**************************************************
I hope you can get your money back for the Rainbow. I feel irresponsible now for having recommended it before I'd used it full strength.

When I said the Light Mtn. shouldn't be a problem, I was addressing chloeishere's concern about the herb being too coarsely ground...which it appears to be more finely ground than Rainbow. But thinking of it now, I don't know from experience that it doesn't also have sand in it.

The Rainbow did do a great job of correcting the burgundy tints my hair had developed in places. My hennaed hair is now the color I've been aiming for. But I don't think I want to risk sand-damage again. Maybe I can make rinses (strained, of course) with the rest of it.

[Velouria]

[quote=chloeishere;102379]

I figure that the medicinal senna has to be pretty pure-- I mean, if it's going into the body, they can't exactly add fillers and metallic salts, right? So there is that.
[quote]

Exactly, that was my thinking when I decided to try it out. And the stuff I have seems primo in every way...freshness, scent, dye content, conditioning...except of course the grind. There's no chaff of any kind in it. Also, despite the coarse grind, the powder is pretty soft. I mean, it doesn't feel gritty when you apply it, it feels mealy. I don't think it could be damaging. If you mix a bit of your fenugreek into it, the mud should go on pretty smooth.

[SpiralingWaves]

I hope you can get your money back for the Rainbow. I feel irresponsible now for having recommended it before I'd used it full strength.

When I said the Light Mtn. shouldn't be a problem, I was addressing chloeishere's concern about the herb being too coarsely ground...which it appears to be more finely ground than Rainbow. But thinking of it now, I don't know from experience that it doesn't also have sand in it.

The Rainbow did do a great job of correcting the burgundy tints my hair had developed in places. My hennaed hair is now the color I've been aiming for. But I don't think I want to risk sand-damage again. Maybe I can make rinses (strained, of course) with the rest of it.

Oh, no worries Velouria! I bought it at my own risk. :) I like you're idea of doing rinses with it, or perhaps I can work it in with my BAQ henna in small doses or something like that ... maybe even a cassia gloss of some sort. My hair is pretty resilient. I'm not fretting about it in the least. I think I will just buy from H4H, just so I know I am purchasing quality product. That way I won't have to think about it too much. I've been so tired the last few days, my brain might explode if I ponder too much about it, lol. But I'm glad to know that it worked on correcting the burgundy, that's what I'm looking to do. Thank you for mentioning that. I may purchase some chamomile powder and mix that in with straight 'no sand' cassia. ;)

[Treecrown]

This discussion of "medicinal senna" is making me wonder: I have some herbal tea called something like "Get Regular" whose main ingredient is senna (it tastes dreadful, as it happens). I wonder how it would work if I rinsed my hair with a strong concoction of the tea? Or would I need to gel it and leave it on my hair for a while, like the gelled henna recipes? Has anyone ever tried a senna tea rinse?

[Velouria]

I also bought whole senna leaves when I bought the powdered; I've used them in rinses, and they work well. Cassia is full of tannins (that's why it can be drying) though, so I make the rinse pretty weak on the senna and add other more moisturizing herbs if I'm going to leave the rinse in my hair. I've also made it stronger, and with straight senna, left in awhile and then rinsed. Done like this, it has an effect similar to a full mudpack, but is of course less messy and more convenient. So yeah, you could use your tea as a rinse, depending on whether the other herbs in it are hair-beneficial, or at least neutral.

[Treecrown]

Good to know! I'll have to try it. Will it have the slight coloring effect too, or just the conditioning? (Either one would be good.)

[Medievalhair]

I have the samples ordered.
They are Cassia-2
Paprika-1
Disposeable gloves-1
I can't wait til they get here.
I will right cassia recipe of which ever one I like better.

[Velouria]

Good to know! I'll have to try it. Will it have the slight coloring effect too, or just the conditioning? (Either one would be good.)

The constituent that is the dye molecule (chyrsophanic acid) is also what's responsible for the laxative effect. I think that often there is actually *no* botanical difference between the senna sold medicinally and the cassia sold for hair. I read up on it, and this whole senna sub-species of cassia includes the plants cassia obovata, c. angustifolia, c. auriculata, and some others that I can't remember offhand. They are all nearly identical in every way, so that they are often mislabeled, and also often sold mixed together but labeled as one or another. Any of these or a combination of these are sold as "senna alexandrina", a name that doesn't have much botanical significance, but does include cassia obovata. Some of the botanical profiles I read for the cassia senna species as a whole mentioned its hair use, but none of them said which sub-species was the best for this purpose. The only sites that specified cassia obovata in particular as being for hair were the sites selling it. Go figure.

[chloeishere]

I got the senna today! :happydance:
And it's on my head right now (do we have a smiley called smellydance?).

My recipe:
~1.5 cups chamomile tea (2 cups hot water + 2.5 teaspoon chamomile powder in tea strainer)
100 grams cassia (Senna alexandria)-- 20 half-tablespoons
1 tablespoon fenugreek
1/2 tablespoon ginger (I originally did 1 teaspoon, then I added the chamomile tea, smelled it, and added another half teaspoon).

I guess I can see the cut grass/ rotten hay comparison... but to me, it smells like cooked spinach. YUCK.

I let the tea cool until it was warmish, then added it to the pre-mixed powders. I think I used about a cup and a half of tea. I let the mixture sit for about 10 minutes while I finished getting things together, then got in the tub to apply. I brought a mirror and a ketylo stick-- I didn't need either of those! My hair is like one giant dreadlock right now, it stays where I put it.
I think I could have made the mixture even thinner-- I used all the mix, and probably would have even used more if I'd had it. My hair is about an inch or so from APL. I applied on dry hair (washed yesterday, I have more details in my blog), and maybe it would have gone farther on wet hair. I do feel like it's well coated, though!
I washed the mud off my hands (put a plastic bag on my hair after my hands were clean), then washed the bowl (I could have used a scrub brush instead of a mirror! And two ponytail holders to secure the bag and the towel) and rinsed the drips out of the tub. The bowl's a little yellow, but I think it'll wash out fine with more soap and a scrub brush. This was a very old bowl.
The water in the bowl when I was washing was definitely yellow! I think the chrysophanic acid is present and accounted for! After I was finished washing everything that required bending over, I put an old towel over the bag.
It was fun glopping around the mud, I must admit. Nice and warm and squishy, even if the smell wasn't too fabu.

I have some pictures, because I am incorrigable that way.
The senna powder still in the bag:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3704c.jpg
Texture of the cassia (I mounded a spoonful onto a paper napkin). The powder was thin enough to poof into dust when I added the tea, but I don't know if it's as fine-textured as the stuff sold specifically for hair.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3708c.jpg
The components together (before mixing):
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3714c.jpg
Mud texture (color was darker in real life, this is with flash):
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3721c.jpg

I'll post my results after my hair is de-mudded and dry. I did take a hair picture right before I applied, to check for a color change! I think I got out of the bathroom (cleaning took a while) at about 7-- I plan to leave on until about 9, then mermaid soak out what I can, and use conditioner to remove the rest. Wish me luck!

[blackfrostqueen]

*hi-jacks* I just love the green color henna and cassia makes...it's just so...yuck! And quite amusing, given the colors it makes on you head. *end hi-jack*

chloeishere, can't wait to hear about your results!

[Jeni]

Cant wait to hear about your results! Your cassia does look grainier then the cassia I got from H4H, but that may just be the picture.

Good luck!

[shellblue1]

Chloeishere, where did you purchase your medicinal senna? Thanks! :)

[chloeishere]

shellblue1-- I got it here (http://www.herbco.com/p-646-senna-leaf-powder.aspx) (link direct to senna page, but they have a lot of herbs and stuff).

Blackfrostqueen-- the cassia blend was even more "gorgeous" in person-- darker green, but that lovely shade. And the water when I was mermaid rinsing my hair turned a very dark brown. It was pretty gnarly. On a side note, since I rinsed in the tub first, I ended up cleaning my ears with a q-tip, and found a bunch of cassia debris in my ears! The things you don't think of.

Jeni-- I think it may be grainer (just based on pictures-- I think Nightshade's henna comparison pictures are what I'm thinking of?). However... I think I got really good conditioning from it anyway-- it obviously released a lot of the chyrsophanic acid (why it went from dark green to dark brown, I figure) and it really was not hard to rinse out at all. Well, I obviously should have done my scalp better, but my hair feels fabulous, and it was not nearly the ordeal that I was expecting. I'm pleased with my results.

Anyway, my hair is pretty much dry now... and I'm THRILLED with the results! Even comparing a shed hair from after the cassia to one from before-- you can feel that the hair is thicker and smoother, and much less fragile! Wow!
However, I didn't clean off my scalp well enough. It's kind of itchy, and I get leaf powder when I scratch-- so I will need to wash again soon.

Before and after:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3726c.jpghttp://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3744c.jpg
From the same region of hair:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3723c.jpghttp://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3740c.jpg

It really brought out my waves! I had my old corkscrew spiral in the front! Haven't seen that guy in a while. I took a damp picture, but it faded into a wave when I was fingercombing.
This isn't a perfect comparison, as the first picture is 2nd day hair (although I haven't actually washed my hair today, just cassia'ed and applied lots of conditioner... so I guess it is a pretty fair comparison).

But I'm really really pleased with the results! Even though my hair smells like hay and apples. Well, horses will love me! :p

[Jeni]

Your hair looks great! Glad it worked out so well.

So I'm still kind of confused, the stuff you bought is the same stuff you get from H4H, only called something different? If it isn't, I wonder if the dye is the same. It's cheaper to get the stuff you did......OK so according to google there a alittle over 450grams to a pound, so I could get ~4 applications a pound, at $3/lb I could cassia my little heart out!

[Velouria]

A lovely result! Your hair looks shiny, thick & voluminous, and the color more vibrant. I'm glad, too, that someone else has used the laxative grade; I was starting to feel like a crackpot!

Jeni, all of those questions are answered in the last several pages of this thread.......but to reiterate, yes, the herbs (various sub-species of cassia) sold as senna do have the same dying and conditioning properties as the herbs (also various sub-species of cassia) sold as cassia for hair.

[kimki]

Your hair looks great! Beautiful result. I'm just curious, what was the ginger for?

[Jeni]

Velouria- thanks, not sure how I missed it. Well that's good news, I think I'm going to have to try the laxative quality.

[chloeishere]

Thank you for the nice comments! I am really happy with how my hair feels... I think this might be a weird thing to do, but every now and then, I'll take a shed hair, and pull on it to see how easily it breaks. (Yeah, I now some people on the mane forum would probably be flinching right now, but it's a shed, who cares?). I tried it with a shed hair after cassia, and it's at least 2 or 3 times stronger than it used to be. I'm amazed! I think I'm going to apply again in 2 weeks, then maybe go to the month interval. The cost isn't an issue, but it is kind of a pain-- it gets heavy if you are sitting up, and the smell is none-too-great!

Jeni- As Velouria said, it has the same active compound (chyrsophanic acid) that acts as a conditioning agent for the hair; it's also the same ingredient that causes the laxative effect. The medical grade is slightly less finely sifted, but still works very well, is very fresh (I would say, from the look of the powder), has to be pure, and is MUCH cheaper than pure cassia from one of the specialty hair henna sites. That's why I decided to try it! That said, the particular site I linked to does add a $5 handling charge to orders under $20-- so unless you wanted to get other things up to $20 total (they have many spices and lots of nice looking tea), it may not be the best place to get it. I had no problem getting up to $20, though.

Velouria-- I want to thank you again for even letting me know that the senna sold medicinally was the same as the cassia (or, though slightly different species of plants, WORKED the same as the cassia obovota)! I owe you! I had no idea if it would work, and the cassia that most people get on here is not affordable for me right now. I LOVE the results, and I didn't have any trouble from the "coarser" grade-- it's still a very fine powder, and I really didn't have a hard time getting it out, at all! So yes, thank you again! :D :D :D

kimki-- the ginger was supposed to keep the "henna" smell from lingering in my hair. My hair smells right now, but honestly, it smells mostly like apples (from the conditioner that I used). The ginger itself smells really nice, but the actual cassia mixture smelled not-too-pleasant-- kind of like cooked spinach. I think next time I'll try a whole tablespoon of the ginger root powder in 100 grams of cassia. I do still have a slight undertone of the cassia smell left in my hair-- but the combo of the apple smell with the cassia smell is giving me a bit of a headache-- I'm very sensitive to strong scents, unfortunately. I'll be washing my hair within a few hours to hopefully get out the last of the scent, and get the rest of the cassia powder off my scalp-- though I think I got most of it with scritching with my fingernails last night.

[Indigo Girl]

I think this might be a weird thing to do, but every now and then, I'll take a shed hair, and pull on it to see how easily it breaks. (Yeah, I now some people on the mane forum would probably be flinching right now, but it's a shed, who cares?). I tried it with a shed hair after cassia, and it's at least 2 or 3 times stronger than it used to be. I'm amazed!

I will do that with shed hairs too :smirk:

Your results are great! Healthy, full, and shiny - looks fantastic! :)

[Ms Monnie]

I'm so glad that it's finally been established that you can use other senna strains! I have loads of cassia angustifolia that I thought I bought mistakenly that I can use now :D. I still have plenty of obovata left though.

[lora410]

:DI just ordered my first cassia

[Medievalhair]

My samples came today I will be testing them soon.

[Velouria]

Velouria-- I want to thank you again for even letting me know that the senna sold medicinally was the same as the cassia (or, though slightly different species of plants, WORKED the same as the cassia obovota)! I owe you! I had no idea if it would work, and the cassia that most people get on here is not affordable for me right now. I LOVE the results, and I didn't have any trouble from the "coarser" grade-- it's still a very fine powder, and I really didn't have a hard time getting it out, at all! So yes, thank you again! :D :D :D



My pleasure; I'm glad it worked so well for you, and I'm happy to have convinced someone else to try it. I've posted about it before, on the old forum as well, but you're the 1st person that I know of (other than myself) to give it a try.

Your senna looks just like mine and I agree that it is a pretty fine powder, and soft-textured also, so it's really not hard to apply and rinse (esp. w/ the use of fenugreek, or oil, or honey, etc)...but, having used Mehandi's cassia there *is* a pretty big difference (that stuff is practically silky, and I've heard Henna Sooq's is too) so I thought I should mention the relatively coarse grind, as so many here have already used those triple-sifted cassias.

My memory had failed me when it came to Rainbow...I used the reds years ago, but forgot how sharply gritty they were; it was all I knew of henna at the time, so I thought nothing of it. Then when I recently tried the Rainbow Marigold full-strength I realized it had sand in it, and was therefore actually much worse to apply & rinse than the medicinal senna, though it's finer grind had visually deceived me into thinking it would be better. The Light Mtn. I also used years ago, but also don't remember much about the texture except that it was much worse than Mehandi's, and it had smaller grains of powder than the medicinal (both of which I of course only tried yrs. later). But its apparently finer sift may be misleading, as with Rainbow, as well. I've decided to stick with the laxative grade from now on.

[kimki]

kimki-- the ginger was supposed to keep the "henna" smell from lingering in my hair. My hair smells right now, but honestly, it smells mostly like apples (from the conditioner that I used). The ginger itself smells really nice, but the actual cassia mixture smelled not-too-pleasant-- kind of like cooked spinach. I think next time I'll try a whole tablespoon of the ginger root powder in 100 grams of cassia. I do still have a slight undertone of the cassia smell left in my hair-- but the combo of the apple smell with the cassia smell is giving me a bit of a headache-- I'm very sensitive to strong scents, unfortunately. I'll be washing my hair within a few hours to hopefully get out the last of the scent, and get the rest of the cassia powder off my scalp-- though I think I got most of it with scritching with my fingernails last night.


Ahh that makes sense. I'm sensitive to strong smells like that too I might give the ginger a try. Thank you. :)

[chloeishere]

I'm having an interesting experience with the smell-- it changes and morphs!
After I washed it yesterday, my hair still smelled. I think it was much stronger from reusing the turbie that I had dried my hair in right after the cassia treatment, though. It wasn't as strong as it was right afterwards, but it was still really strong-- enough to be noticable every time my hair moved around my face.

Even my boyfriend noticed it-- I was complaining about the smell, and he smelled my hair, and said... "Huh, that is kind of weird." He said it smelled like pine. Which actually, at that stage of the drying process, it did! Once it got completely dry, it no longer smelled like hay/wood/whatever at all, but it DID smell faintly of maple syrup. I'm pretty sure that's the fenugreek. I had no idea it would still be conditioning the hair after 2 washes!
I like the smell of maple syrup, but it was kind of a weird scent to smell in my hair, without any stickyness at all (don't tell, but I've gotten maple syrup in my hair before-- it's rather unpleasantly sticky and hard, but it does smell nice!).
Then I went to work today, had my hair up, and my hair got a little damp because it was warm and humid, and was raining. The smell came back again, but not as strongly. It's mostly gone now.
I'm definitely upping the ginger for the next cassia application-- I'm going to try and neutralize the "spinach" smell as much as possible before I apply, while keeping the ginger to a non-irritating level.
I think the chyrsophanic acid dyed my fingernails a bit yellow, as well. They are finally returning to their natural color today. It's not a gross, dark yellow, just a bit more yellow than they are normally.

Glad to help kimki! The smell of ginger is very nice (and ginger tea is delicious, very settling to the stomach), so hopefully once I find the right ratio, I won't mind the smell after-cassia. I don't mind it for a few hours, or even till the next wash, but it is a bit distracting. I think the next wash should see me rid of it, though!

*Off to wash my hair turban*

[kimki]

Thats interesting actually. I use the CV Cafe Monero (or however its spelt) and I have found after an ACV rinse the smell seems odd. Then once my hair dries its ok, but it does seem to come back when my hair gets damp. I was doing Pilates last night and all of a sudden started to sniff the CV bar/ACV aroma and felt a bit self conscious.

I wonder if others (who don't sniff out hair on purpose) can smell it?

[Tapioca]

I'll be within a few miles of a Whole Foods market tonight (usually, it's a 45 minute drive), so I'm picking up a few more boxes of Light Mountain cassia. The henna, I can find locally. (I add 1 tbsp henna to a cup of cassia to cut the golden tones a bit.)

[chloeishere]

Thats interesting actually. I use the CV Cafe Monero (or however its spelt) and I have found after an ACV rinse the smell seems odd. Then once my hair dries its ok, but it does seem to come back when my hair gets damp. I was doing Pilates last night and all of a sudden started to sniff the CV bar/ACV aroma and felt a bit self conscious.

I wonder if others (who don't sniff out hair on purpose) can smell it?

I had that same problem when I was using a vinegar rinse with CV bars. Everyone said, "Oh, once your hair dries, the smell goes away!" (Well, I go out with wet hair all the time anyway, so that didn't really help matters). But if I got slightly damp hair, the smell would instantly be back, and it made me really self conscious. Eventually, I switched to a citric acid rinse, which worked really well for me. And had no smell (well, a faint citrusy smell when I was using the rinse, but no smell afterwards)! But right now, I'm not using shampoo bars much, so no acid rinse of any kind.

Maybe my hair really holds onto smells well? You're the first person beside me who I've heard of having the trouble of the vinegar smell coming back when their hair got damp. I rather like it when my hair gets damp and I can smell the shampoo bar, though. :o
I decided to do a heavy oiling with vatika oil last night, and my hair is still in an oily bun. I'm going to run to the post office (with my buff on!), and then take a shower. No cassia smell can be detected, and the vatika oil smell is gone too-- I guess it absorbed or evaporated overnight?

[kimki]

Does that make us special? :D

I hope the smell disappears soon!

Quick question off topic. Did you notice any difference between doing an ACV rinse to JUST using citric acid?

[Gilly]

Did my cassia last night, i used 100g cassia and a tbs of hemp seed oil, I did it on dry har as i got in such a mess when I did it on wet hair!
It rinsed out ok and I put conditioner through it after, it feels ok today but tomorrow will be better, it usually is!

[Silver & Gold]

I don't know if anyone has tried this combination but I'm sitting here with this recipe on my head.

1 T Fenugreek (powdered)
1 C water (perhaps less)
Scant 1/4 C Cassia
1/2 Banana
2 or 3 T Honey

All amounts are approximate, I don't measure. My hair is just barely shoulder length and this is just about right to coat and saturate my hair.
I began by boiling the water with the fenugreek powder in it. When that came to a boil I mixed it in with the cassia. I then added 1/2 large banana (it was all I had on hand, at the other half yesterday) and the honey. I used a stick blender to get it all smooth. To give you a more exact idea of the amounts, the consistency was about the same as cake batter.
I applied it to dry hair after putting a bit of caster oil on the very bottom ends of my hair.
The mixture felt nice and slick rather than dry and gritty like it can when you apply cassia and tea. I'm going for conditioning only, I really don't want the color so I plan to leave it on for about 30 - 45 minutes.
Also the banana and honey gives it a more pleasant smell. Although I've never found the smell of cassia all that offensive to begin with.
I'll let you know how it goes.

[Silver & Gold]

OK, FYI . . . just as I suspected, the fenugreek & banana gave the cassia more slip. Not only was it easier to rinse but the effects were far less drying. I rinsed my hair quite easily and then did a very light CO. My hair is soft and full without being too dry.
I'm definitely keeping the idea of using fenugreek, banana or linseed to provide slip to my cassia mixture. Also, I'm beginning to believe that the cassia itself was not coloring my hair all that much but rather the teas I was using. So no more tea in my cassia mix since my objective is not to color my hair.
Also I believe pre-oiling my ends was a good idea. I used castor oil because it was right at my fingertips but I think I will experiment with other oils such as coconut, jojoba or olive oil.
One other thing. Not only did this cassia treatment NOT color my hair a bright yellow, I believe it actually helped fade the color from the previous cassia treatment which was still quite golden. Perhaps due to the action of fluffing the cuticles that cassia seems to do. I wonder if this in combination with the honey helped to release some of the previous color.
Thats all - love my hair after cassia!

[shellblue1]

So adding oil to the treatment isn't detrimental? Does it keep the cassia's drying effect to a minimum?

[Silver & Gold]

So adding oil to the treatment isn't detrimental? Does it keep the cassia's drying effect to a minimum?

I'm not certain about this. My instinct tells me that adding oil to the treatment will interfere with the ability of the cassia to do it's job. This is why I chose to only lightly oil the dry ends (talking about the bottom 2 inches or so) of my length just to keep them from getting too dried out and tangly. I may have prevented the cassia from penetrating into the ends as much but the rest of my hair got the full benefit I'm thinking.

Adding things to make the cassia more slimy, something that produces mucilage such as fenugreek, banana or linseed I'm thinking helps keep it from being quite so drying and/or difficult to remove. It also seems that it would interfere less with the cassia than an oil would. But I'm experimenting without benefit of a microscope, only my feeling to tell me if I'm onto something.

[Sassenach]

Thanks for all the great information, everyone! I was thinking about hennaing, but perhaps will ease my way in by trying cassia first.

[hurricane_gia]

Has anyone ever tried mixing the cassia with Coconut Milk?

[chloeishere]

Does that make us special? :D

I hope the smell disappears soon!

Quick question off topic. Did you notice any difference between doing an ACV rinse to JUST using citric acid?

I can't entirely tell what you mean here-- sorry, could you clarify?
Do you mean using a citric acid rinse without shampoo bars? I did that all the time with CO, and it helped make my hair feel cleaner and less "sticky" when wet. Though CO doesn't work very well for me, my hair felt great but my scalp felt terrible. Do you mean cleaning with citric acid? I've never tried, but I doubt strongly it would work-- it's not cleansing in that way.
Citric acid and vinegar rinses worked very similarly for me, if that's what you mean. Both instantly provided a lot of slip, and removed shampoo bar build-up.
Sorry for the delay, I've been away from the computer! Let me know what you mean if I haven't answered your question.

The smell continues to fade, and doesn't bother me any more. But it's still hovering a bit when my hair is wet. Ah well!

[Riot Crrl]

Thanks for all the great information, everyone! I was thinking about hennaing, but perhaps will ease my way in by trying cassia first.

LOL, cassia is a gateway drug! I'm living proof.

[shellblue1]

I can't entirely tell what you mean here-- sorry, could you clarify?
Do you mean using a citric acid rinse without shampoo bars? I did that all the time with CO, and it helped make my hair feel cleaner and less "sticky" when wet. Though CO doesn't work very well for me, my hair felt great but my scalp felt terrible. Do you mean cleaning with citric acid? I've never tried, but I doubt strongly it would work-- it's not cleansing in that way.
Citric acid and vinegar rinses worked very similarly for me, if that's what you mean. Both instantly provided a lot of slip, and removed shampoo bar build-up.
Sorry for the delay, I've been away from the computer! Let me know what you mean if I haven't answered your question.

The smell continues to fade, and doesn't bother me any more. But it's still hovering a bit when my hair is wet. Ah well!

I saw in your blog that you said your hair smells like hay. Do you think this is particularly from the fenugreek? Since the fenugreek is 'Greek hay'? Or is it the cassia that also smells like hay? I've never used either before.

Silver & Gold, are there any other ingredients that would cause more mucilage besides fenugreek, banana (don't have one around), or linseed? Does honey aid in this way or is it simply to moisturize?

[shellblue1]

Also, one more question. Since cassia opens or fluffs the cuticle, can this be damaging to the hair at all?

[Riot Crrl]

Also, one more question. Since cassia opens or fluffs the cuticle, can this be damaging to the hair at all?

It's temporary. With both cassia and henna, I need to moisturize my hair afterward and/or do a vinegar rinse. Otherwise my hair is a little hard at first until I get enough moisture back in it. They are both strengthening but not really moisturizing. Once I get it moisturized again, it's better than it was to start out with. But don't be alarmed if you're rinsing and thinking "Hmm a little rough..."

[freznow]

I saw in your blog that you said your hair smells like hay. Do you think this is particularly from the fenugreek? Since the fenugreek is 'Greek hay'? Or is it the cassia that also smells like hay? I've never used either before.


I've read a couple of times that fenugreek smells like maple. It's the cassia that smells like hay. (Or at least this is what I have 'heard', as I haven't used it [yet] myself)

[detritus]

For the past couple months I've been mixing a couple tablespoons of cassia in with my caramel treatment mix (basically oils, banana, honey and ACV) in lieu of doing regular cassia treatments. I'm so much happier doing it this way, much easier to get in and out of my hair, without the drying effects of straight cassia. I don't think the oil interferes with cassia's action--the effects don't last as long when I use my cassia that way, but I think that's just because I'm using so much less of it per treatment. (which is another bonus in my view, I spend a lot less money on cassia this way). My hair also feels great the day after these treatments, it doesn't take a couple days for it get back to normal. Just my :twocents:

[chloeishere]

I saw in your blog that you said your hair smells like hay. Do you think this is particularly from the fenugreek? Since the fenugreek is 'Greek hay'? Or is it the cassia that also smells like hay? I've never used either before.



I've read a couple of times that fenugreek smells like maple. It's the cassia that smells like hay. (Or at least this is what I have 'heard', as I haven't used it [yet] myself)

Yep! Fenugreek smells a bit like spicy maple syrup. It's what accounts for the maple syrup smell in my hair. It's faint, and definitely not unpleasant.
In my opinion, the cassia mud smelled like cooked spinach. The smell changed when I washed it out-- I describe it as hay, but it's a bit of a musky, woodsy scent. The smell comes from the cassia, and I was aware that it would have a scent before I tried it... I just thought that I would LIKE the scent! Unfortunately, I don't. It's too strong (induces headaches for me) and not especially pleasant, in my opinion. That just means more experiments with ginger! I've also heard people describe cassia as smelling like fresh cut grass. Er, okay.

And I don't think the cassia is damaging, even though it isn't moisturizing-- so long as you aren't tearing at your hair, trying to get it out. My hair felt more voluminous and thicker after the treatment, but it wasn't rough feeling at all. Of course, I used fenugreek and got it out with a whole bunch of conditioner, so I haven't had the "pure cassia" experience.

For what it's worth, the fenugreek I got was really cheap-- $1.49 for 7 ounces at a global food store. If you went anywhere with an international or Indian section, you could probably find it. The store I was at was more expensive than the "typical" Indian store I've heard mentioned on here, and it was still really inexpensive to pick it up. And I'm very glad I did!

[buttons]

I'm looking to thicken my hair up a little, and I know that cassia can do that. Does the thickness wear off, though? Like, for example, if you don't do it regularly or only do it a few times will there be a permanent change in the thickness?

Thanks in advance :D

[shellblue1]

Thanks everyone for your answers! :) I will be purchasing some fenugreek to mix in. I might try a tiny bit of olive oil in the mix too to help keep the cassia from drying my hair out.

[SweetPea88]

Ok, I've been looking through this thread for the past hour or so and I'm interested in trying cassia. It seems like a great way to treat and thicken my hair without changing the black color. There seems to be mixed reviews concerning Rainbow brand and some others...is there a way to purchase safe and good cassia from a store rather than the internet?

Thanks in advance!

[Riot Crrl]

Ok, I've been looking through this thread for the past hour or so and I'm interested in trying cassia. It seems like a great way to treat and thicken my hair without changing the black color. There seems to be mixed reviews concerning Rainbow brand and some others...is there a way to purchase safe and good cassia from a store rather than the internet?

Thanks in advance!

Possibly, if you have a local Indian grocery or similar who carries it. Mine doesn't, all they have is henna. I hope that you have better luck. If yours doesn't carry it, perhaps you could ask them to order it for you.

[SweetPea88]

Possibly, if you have a local Indian grocery or similar who carries it. Mine doesn't, all they have is henna. I hope that you have better luck. If yours doesn't carry it, perhaps you could ask them to order it for you.

Thanks. I think there may be a few Indian grocers nearby, I'll definitely need to check it out!

[Silver & Gold]

I saw in your blog that you said your hair smells like hay. Do you think this is particularly from the fenugreek? Since the fenugreek is 'Greek hay'? Or is it the cassia that also smells like hay? I've never used either before.

Silver & Gold, are there any other ingredients that would cause more mucilage besides fenugreek, banana (don't have one around), or linseed? Does honey aid in this way or is it simply to moisturize?

I will restate what a few others have already said concerning the smells of fenugreek and cassia. To me fenugreek smells a great deal like maple syrup. Cassia to me smells like frozen peas. The two together have an earthy smell that is not at all unpleasant to me but then, I love earthy smells. I am a Taurean woman after all.

I'm not familiar with too many other plants that are high in mucilage besides things even more obscure (as far as items most people keep in their kitchen) such as slippery elm bark and marshmallow root. I think the least expensive and most environmentally responsible choices would be flax seed (aka linseed), fenugreek and banana. Or perhaps okra which when boiled is kinda like . . . well . . . do you know the difference between snot and boiled okra?




Wait for it . . .





Wait for it . . . .






Wait for it . . .






A four year old won't eat boiled okra. :couch:

[kimki]

. . . do you know the difference between snot and boiled okra?




Wait for it . . .





Wait for it . . . .






Wait for it . . .






A four year old won't eat boiled okra. :couch:


Hahaha and ewww!! :p:D

[kimki]

I can't entirely tell what you mean here-- sorry, could you clarify?
Do you mean using a citric acid rinse without shampoo bars? I did that all the time with CO, and it helped make my hair feel cleaner and less "sticky" when wet. Though CO doesn't work very well for me, my hair felt great but my scalp felt terrible. Do you mean cleaning with citric acid? I've never tried, but I doubt strongly it would work-- it's not cleansing in that way.
Citric acid and vinegar rinses worked very similarly for me, if that's what you mean. Both instantly provided a lot of slip, and removed shampoo bar build-up.
Sorry for the delay, I've been away from the computer! Let me know what you mean if I haven't answered your question.

The smell continues to fade, and doesn't bother me any more. But it's still hovering a bit when my hair is wet. Ah well!

I'm sorry. Your right I wasn't very clear. :o I was asking when you used shampoo bars did you notice a difference between rinsing with Citric acid and rinsing Apple Cinder Vinegar.

You answered my question in your post. Thank you. :)