The Cassia Thread (see first post for link to FAQs)

[shellblue1]

Okay I am finally doing a cassia treatment, well it isn't really a full cassia treatment, but sort of a cassia gloss with a tiny bit of henna mixed in. Here is what I used:

2 cups of warm water (used wayyy too much of this!!!)
1 tbs of Light Mtn. Neutral Henna
1 tsp of Rainbow Persian Black Henna (thought it might add a little more conditioning)
1/3 cup Suave Coconut conditioner
5 drops jojoba oil

Way too liquid-y! I shouldn't have used so much water! Anyway, so since it was so watery, I figured I add some honey (like 2 tbs) to thicken it up a bit. Well that didn't help much. So yeah, next time I won't use so much water.

I tried to apply the liquid to my hair using my haircolor brush and that helped get to the roots, but then I just ended up dunking my sections of hair into my bowl. I squeezed excess water out and worked the mix into my hair a little bit, then twisted up the sections on my head, and finally covered with a plastic cap. I've had quite a bit of drips so hopefully this mix is okay to get on the skin!

So now I am waiting.... :)

[shellblue1]

Okay here are my results from the treatment:

Cassia was a little hard to get out of the hair when rinsing. I filled my tub with water and then swirled my hair in it. I then used my Desert Essence Italian Grape shampoo to lightly shampoo my hair and then used some conditioner to help get the rest of the tiny leafs out. It made my tub a bit of a mess but was somewhat easy to clean.

Combing through my hair was pretty easy and I didn't seem to lose very much hair. I let my hair dry naturally and then once it was dry I combed through it again. What I noticed: my hair was shiny, NO FRIZZ, and just felt thicker. So I guess I had some pretty good results! No stinky hay smell either. :)

How often do you guys do cassia treatments?

[chloeishere]

Oops, I did it again!

Actually, I did it yesterday (but I was feeling kind of meh, so I didn't post then)! It was 6 days between cassia treatments. Which is really too frequently, but no harm done.
I tried doing things differently this time.
I washed my hair first, using just shampoo (Ion Moisturizing shampoo), no conditioner, no oils. I stuck my hair in a towel, and then applied the cassia mixture in the bathtub:
1.5 cups warm chamomile tea
0.5 cup cassia (Senna alexandria) powder
3 tablespoons (1.5 ounces) fenugreek powder
3 tablespoons (1.5 ounces) ginger powder.

It still smelled like cooked spinach, though.
I think it's easier to apply (it sticks to hair more) when the hair is dry-- this time, I had to keep scraping off my hands, and applying the mud by smooshing it in with my fingers.
I brought an (OLD) toothbrush in with me to clean up, and it made it a lot easier.

I left it on for about an hour and 25 minutes-- it dripped down my neck a bit this time, probably because I applied on damp hair-- I used the old plastic bag and towel combo.

Then I rinsed-- this time, I did it in the bathroom sink, flipping my head, and dunking it, then working out the mixture. I filled up the sink twice, and got out the most mud that I could-- I had a lot of difficulty getting the mud out of the nape hairs, because I couldn't submerge them.
This method didn't work as well, but I also didn't end up with leaf debris all over my body, and in my ears. I'm not sure which method I'll use in the future.

Then I moved into the shower, with my hair still flipped over my face (I didn't want to move it until I had applied some conditioner to make it more moveable). I rinsed some more, and then applied conditioner.
This time, I used Trader Joe's nourish spa conditioner. It has a faint, herbal smell which isn't haunting me and making me nauseous like the strong, green apple scented conditioner did. It was much harder to squeeze massive amounts of conditioner out of the bottle, though.

I applied conditioner once all over, flipped the hair back the way it belonged, massaged, and rinsed. I then applied more conditioner to the areas where the mud had trouble getting out completely (side areas, mostly), and rinsed again. I washed with dairy whip, which worked great.
Then I applied a hefty amount of Giovanni 50:50 mixed with Trader Joe's nourish spa to condition, and rinsed with cold water.

I put on a larger amount than normal of camellia oil as a leave in-- about 3x as much as normal.

My hair is a bit drier this time-- I'd assume it's because I applied on freshly washed, not conditioned hair. It doesn't seem to me like the cassia performed any better because I applied like this, and it was more of a pain... so in the future, I'll stick with applying on dry hair that has been treated normally. It still isn't really dry or damaged though, just a bit of stiffness in the ends.
My hair still smells like hay, but since I'm not being strangled with the scent of green apples, it's not nearly as bad. I can definitely deal.

I'm still pleased with the results!
See my siggie for my newest result picture.
There's also this one, which I cropped at APL length-- it looks like I'm almost there!
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3809c1.jpg

[shellblue1]

Looks great, chloeishere! I ordered some of the senna from the site you recommended so hopefully I will have good results with that kind too.

[SweetPea88]

chloeishere, it looks great! Thanks for explaining the process so well, it really helps. I'm still trying to find out the best place to get some cassia so I can give it a try.

[shellblue1]

Here is my hair the second day after using cassia. I like the shine I got from it. Oh yeah and one more thing, my part is really funny in the pic, I promise I'm not going bald! :eek:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/DarkBeauty27/cassiaresult.jpg

[MermaidGirl]

... I washed with dairy whip, which worked great. ...

:confused:

Chloeishere, is "dairy whip" a name you gave a hair product you created yourself, or are you washing with real dairy whip? I am very intrigued ... seems to me like real diary whip would be very sticky! :o I'm sure I've probably missed your explanation of what dairy whip is, so please enlighten me!

BTW, I really like the color and texture of your hair, its very pretty!

[SpiralingWaves]

Wow, wonderful description of your process chloeishere. And your hair is looking marvelous!

Awesome shine shellblue1!

[lora410]

I did my cassia treatment last night

100g cassia by henna sooq
2 tblsp labella placenta condish
2 squirts of sweet almond oil
2 droppers of moonchasers sweet sucess oil
chammomile tea (until pancake batterlikeness achieved)

(can we say ill stinko; smells like rotten grass/hay)

Anyway I washed with baking soda before treatment, combed, and applied cassia. Wrapped with plastic wrap, shower cap and towel. Left on for an hour and rinsed, condish, rinse, shampoo, condish. My hair was so silky last night but feels hay like today, but with alot of shine.

Does the hay feeling wear off or do I need to CO?

[SweetPea88]

I'm looking to thicken my hair up a little, and I know that cassia can do that. Does the thickness wear off, though? Like, for example, if you don't do it regularly or only do it a few times will there be a permanent change in the thickness?

Thanks in advance :D

I was also wondering about this!

[shellblue1]

Wow, wonderful description of your process chloeishere. And your hair is looking marvelous!

Awesome shine shellblue1!

Thanks! :)


I received the senna today from Monterey Spice Co. Wow, they ship FAST! I haven't had a chance to try the items yet but ended up ordering: Burdock root powder - 1/4 Pound, Flax seed powder - 1/4 Pound, and Senna leaf powder - 1 Pound. The shipping was around $8.00, which made the grand total about $15.00. So cheap! :) I haven't had a chance to go through the box but I'm curious to see the sift of the senna powder. I also ordered some fenugreek powder from an ebay vendor but haven't received it yet.

[khyricat]

ooh- so muy leafy senna/cassia should work... hrm.. I think I may try this as a thickened tea with my other tea herbs and wash with it in a one step... (hibiscus/elderflower) soemtime this weekend... and see what happens.. if it works, my poo bars can be restricted to travel...

[chloeishere]

:confused:

Chloeishere, is "dairy whip" a name you gave a hair product you created yourself, or are you washing with real dairy whip? I am very intrigued ... seems to me like real diary whip would be very sticky! :o I'm sure I've probably missed your explanation of what dairy whip is, so please enlighten me!

BTW, I really like the color and texture of your hair, its very pretty!

Oops! Sorry, I sometimes forget to explain myself-- I can't possibly imagine using whipped cream to wash my hair!!! This is dairy whip (http://www.flowermoonsoaps.com/store/index.asp?CatID=28&image.x=15&image.y=3). Here's a post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=5731) I did on it, if you want more information.

Thank you to everyone who said nice things about my hair (shucks!) or my post. I try to be helpful, but worry that I go on too long (which sometimes I do, lets face it). I'm glad to know the post was helpful!

[Rae~]

I'm looking to thicken my hair up a little, and I know that cassia can do that. Does the thickness wear off, though? Like, for example, if you don't do it regularly or only do it a few times will there be a permanent change in the thickness?

Thanks in advance :D


I was also wondering about this!


It is in no way a permanent treatment, no - the effects do wear off. It seems to be cumulative, though - if you do treatments regularly, it sort of builds up and lasts a bit longer.

[hurricane_gia]

I cassia'd my hair today! Thanks to everyone who posted their advice and recipes. It really helped to reassure me and make me brave enough to start.

I used 200 grams of cassia (could have made it with 150), one tablespoon of fenugreek, and two tablespoons of ginger. I mixed it all with about three cups of camomile tea. (Then, later, when I realized my mix was too thick, I added another cup or two of water.) I mixed everything early this morning, before work. I only worked a half-day today, so I was able to start working on my hair right after lunch. Altogether, I think the mix sat for about four hours before I put it on my hair.

I started with dry hair, washed the afternoon before, and worn in a bun wrapped in a bandanna to keep it clean.

It didn't smell like rotting hay, but it had a bit of a "cut grass" smell. That's okay, I like the smell of cut grass.

When the instructions say "Pancake batter", they really mean it! When I first made my mix, I made it twice as thick as pancake batter, more like stiff icing, because I wanted to avoid drips. But applying it to my hair, I realized I wasn't getting it on all my hair, just the surface hair. So I added more water and it was much easier to spread.

I managed to get cassia-mud all over the shower walls, on the handles, and on the sides of the tub. This is just while applying it to my hair. I had a moment of dread-lock fear, but remembered what I had read here at LHC and relaxed! :)

I left it in my hair for an hour and a half. I wanted to go a full three hours, but my cousin called around 1 p.m. and the two of us made dinner plans . . . I figured that if I wanted my hair to be dry enough to braid before dinner, I should rinse my hair by 2, at the latest.

To rinse it, I did the recommended mermaid swish, then drained the tub and did it again. Then I switched on the shower, where I washed my hair with my favorite CO conditioner (White rain, diluted with distilled water, with a little citric acid mixed in). Then I poured coconut milk all over the hair, rinsed THAT out, and then CO-washed again. Then I put in some Design Line Olive Loi conditioner on the length, rinsed again.

I could tell while I was washing it that it was more slippery than usual, and it seemed to soak up a ton more conditioner than I'm used to using.

I squeezed it in a towel then let it air dry for a while. Once it was no longer dripping wet, I smoothed coconut oil all in the length.

It usually takes a long time for my hair to dry, but today it seemed to take twice as long. However, once it was dry, it really did feel soft and silky! I was expecting to have at least one day of crunchy hair, as other people have reported, but using the coconut milk and washing twice must have made the difference because already I can tell a difference in my hair. It doesn't feel any thicker, but it is really soft.

I wonder what it will feel like tomorrow.

P.S. The smell is not too bad. It does still smell like cut grass, but only if you get your nose right in it. Just wearing my hair, I don't smell it and people sitting next to me can't smell it either. But anyway, I'm a gardener, so the smell of freshly cut vegetation heated up in the mid-day sun is a NICE smell for me! Mmmmmm, I think I'll go and cook up some collard greens!

[MermaidGirl]

Oops! Sorry, I sometimes forget to explain myself-- I can't possibly imagine using whipped cream to wash my hair!!! This is dairy whip (http://www.flowermoonsoaps.com/store/index.asp?CatID=28&image.x=15&image.y=3). Here's a post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=5731) I did on it, if you want more information.

Thank you to everyone who said nice things about my hair (shucks!) or my post. I try to be helpful, but worry that I go on too long (which sometimes I do, lets face it). I'm glad to know the post was helpful!

Thanks Chloeishere, I appreciate the info! The Dairy Whip looks delightful, but if its anything like using a shampoo bar (and I think the ingredients are shampoo bar-like, but the product itself is not in bar form, obviously), then I have to opt out of using it that way as the ingredients in poo bars mixed with my hard, chlorinated, rusty, chemical-y Los Angeles water simply wreak havoc on my hair! I can, however, give it a go as a body wash, and I just might have to try that! The Honey Vanilla sounds lovely!

[Sissilonghair]

Hi...since I buy my cassia at the natural store in my country,I would like to know if there is a method to test the good quality of the cassia I buy.On the package it says cassia obovata.
Another thing ...I want to mix the cassia with lemon juice to intensify the golden tones,would it be to harsh for my hair??

[SweetPea88]

Edit: found answer!

[Jeni]

Hi...since I buy my cassia at the natural store in my country,I would like to know if there is a method to test the good quality of the cassia I buy.On the package it says cassia obovata.
Another thing ...I want to mix the cassia with lemon juice to intensify the golden tones,would it be to harsh for my hair??

You could do a strand test, make sure there isn't anything else mixed in with the cassia.

Does lemon add golden tones? I thought it just lightened, no idea though. What color is your hair? I have (dyed) light ash blond, but after 3 cassia treatments it is more of a light golden blond (I mix in water, coconut oil, EVOO, honey and enough conditioner to cut the smell down). I know lemon will dry your hair out so I wouldn't use much. Have you looked in the articles section, I believe there is a list of things that give more golden tones.

[Sissilonghair]

the reason why I want to mix cassia and lemon is because I want to lighten my hair a bit and cover some gray.So I should mix enough lemon juice and cassia let it rest for almost 12 hours,then add maybe yougurt or conditioner to avoid the dryness??:confused:

[Jeni]

I have no idea if that would work or not, I'm sure someone with way more experience will pipe up soon. I know honey is suppose to lighten your hair, try reading the honey thread. I haven't noticed any lightening from honey, but I haven't been trying for lightening so...

If you want color from cassia do you have to wait 12 hours? I only let the mix sit for as long as it takes to get ready (maybe 5 mins) and I notice color. I usually leave the mix on my head between 1.5-3 hours depending on how long I can deal with it. This last time the smell really got to me, so it was rinsed off after about and hour and 1/2.

Anyway, you could try it, if your hair is really dry do a SMT or something. I do one after cassia anyways, really helps with the after cassia dryness.

[khyricat]

I did the senna thing, and it definitely cleaned my hair at least as well as the cassia poo bar has been... and left it feeling wonderful... I only left it on for a few minutes, I was short on time, next time I plan on leaving it on longer.. but this means I can use it as a cleaning agent even short term... I will try cassia for a longer treatment eventually, but the priority has dropped in needing to do so now..

[Medievalhair]

Ok I did my first test with Cassia and Red tea. It turned out pretty good, considering I left be for 4 hours. The next will be with Cassia, Red tea and Paprika.

[freznow]

I got my cassia today! I was planning on using it with banana but the package came late and so I ate the last banana! Oh well. I'll still do it, as I have some fenugreek powder, but darn I shoulda saved that banana!

[kimki]

I got my cassia today! I was planning on using it with banana but the package came late and so I ate the last banana! Oh well. I'll still do it, as I have some fenugreek powder, but darn I shoulda saved that banana!

Haha I'm sorry but for some reason that really made me laugh!!

I've had that with yoguart before actually....:D

[buttons]

I'm planning on ordering some Cassia next month and want to give it a try this summer. If I like it, I think I'll make it a monthly thing.
Since joining LHC I've been ordering more stuff than ever.
Enablers...:p

[freznow]

So, did my first cassia the other day.

Only left it on for about 45 minutes because I'm impatient and ought to have been in bed even then.

No change in color. No apparent change in thickness. Strength... not really any way to tell a difference. Smell is tolerable. Feels a bit like straw...

ONE thing though. I let my hair dry a bit before putting it in a banded pony and going to bed. Then I had it in an equilibrium bun all day today. WOAH amazing bun curls (or waves now that I've combed them out). Seriously I never get bun waves, just some light braid waves. I have no idea if it's because of the cassia or because I bunned it while it was moist (but not damp), or what. But WOW.

[ilovelonghair]

How can you tell if something is real cassia? I found this stuff you can buy in the healthfood store and they call it 'clear henna'. I assume that must be cassia then? But they didn't know, they never heard of the word cassia (everywhere I ask, no one seems to know what cassia is) So I asked if I could smell the stuff since someone said cassia is used in cooking instead of cinnamon, I asumed it must smell like cinnamon. But it didn't, it smelled just like henna.
What do you think, could this 'clear henna' be cassia, or is it something else? How does cassia actually smell?

[chloeishere]

Cassia is cinnamon, but the cassia we use on our hair is NOT cinnamon! It's just a bad naming thing. If you do a wikipedia search for Cassia, it'll come up with the cinnamon page. But on the top, it says that cassia is also a group of different plants in a different family-- they aren't related to cinnamon at all, though I'd love it if cassia smelled like cinnamon! The naming of cassia is so very confusing.

Probably, your health store's "clear henna" is cassia. Cassia smells like tea or catnip to me. It probably smells very similar to henna, I would suspect.

Freznow-- cassia really brought out the wave in my hair, but I don't think that's all that common of an effect. Enoy it!
I think my ponytail got slightly fuller, but it didn't increase in circumference enough that it was outside of my normal ranges. I have fine hair, and individual hair strands did appear a bit thicker. I didn't notice a color change, but I immediately noticed an increase in strength and shine. Maybe give it a few days, since it still feels dry, and see if you start to notice any difference.

[Tapioca]

I've done a few cassia treatments, using the Light Mountain stuff from Whole Foods. However, I think I'm going to go for ordering the senna from Monterey Bay Spice. Those of you who have used it, do you reccomend it?
And as long as I'm paying shipping, I'm tempted to get a few more things to add to the mix. I usually add a tablespoon or two of henna to get a strawberry blonde look. Anything else work great? I'm happy with the color I'm getting out of my current mix, but more conditioning would be nice.

[Ms Monnie]

I would try teaspoons first considering your hair is so light Tapioca (although your hair is so thick it might not be that much in ratio terms to the rest of your mix :shrug:). You can always try more later but you can never try less and henna is infamously difficult to remove.

I think strawberry blonde would look really nice!

[Tapioca]

The strawberry is nice. (Must find camera. Must find camera.) I've been adding the henna for the last few treatments. What I was wondering about was the quality of the Senna from Monterey Spice. And possibly what other things I could add to increase the conditioning.

[Ms Monnie]

Doh. Sorry I didn't read that properly whatsoever :rolleyes:. I like fenugreek for conditioning and some SMT.

[chloeishere]

I think I might be the only one who's used the senna from Monterey Spice Co. :o Or maybe I'm just the first person to actually link to them. I think that the senna I got from them is GREAT quality-- it may not be the finest sift, but it obviously has a lot of the chrysophanic acid, and it's worked really well for me everytime, with immediately better results. It seems really fresh and green, too. I haven't had any extra difficulty in getting it out, either.

I got some chamomile from there too, which seems nice-- but I'd recommend getting the whole flowers, not the powder (if you are intending to make tea with it, at least)! The powder is really fine and goes through my tea strainer with ease. It might not be an issue if you got a muslin tea bag instead of a metal ball strainger, like I did.
Oh look! They also carry fenugreek (http://herbco.com/p-597-fenugreek-seed-powder.aspx) seed powder and it's REALLY cheap! It's actually cheaper than at the Indian grocer for me (though you'd have to add shipping costs, of course).

I like using fenugreek in my cassia, but I don't know what other conditioning herbs to recommend (assuming you already use chamomile tea in your mix). If you need any packaging (metal tins and the like) check out the herbal supplies section. You can also get various tea strainers, if you don't already have one that you like. They have some gorgeous tea pots too!

Hope that helps, Tapioca!

[Gilly]

The strawberry is nice. (Must find camera. Must find camera.) I've been adding the henna for the last few treatments. What I was wondering about was the quality of the Senna from Monterey Spice. And possibly what other things I could add to increase the conditioning.
What ratio is your mixture of cassia and henna?

[khyricat]

I tried senna but mine I already had from mountain rose herbs for something else.. I MAY switch companies with that link though, but they don't have all the items I need, so it will depend on what needs restocking and who has the best price at the time

[Tapioca]

What ratio is your mixture of cassia and henna?

I use about 2 tablespoons of henna mixed with chamomile tea and allowed to dye release. Then I add about a cup of cassia and more chamomile tea until it's the right consistency. Sometimes I'll add some non-cone conditioner if I'm in the mood.

[chloeishere]

I'm planning on using cassia again soon, if my neck starts feeling better (I seem to have strained it, and I don't want to put a bunch of heavy mud on my head unless it feels normal again). It's been two weeks.

I'm thinking of adding a bit of conditioner to my next mud to see if it eases removal a lot and/or helps reduce the scent. Plus I love experimenting! I'm not sure if I will yet, or not.

I am wondering... I've been following the "how to reduce henna smell" thread, and was thinking about using coffee in my next cassia. Is there any reason NOT to do this? Is cassia affected negatively by acid? Is it really damaging to the hair? I'm not worried about color change (I know coffee can darken) because it would be temporary.
I also might try cinnamon instead. I'm just worried about it being irritating to thes scalp.

I am thinking that it may be the combination of the fenugreek smell (sweet, maple) with the cassia smell (barfo) that makes it smell so awful. I am fine with the smell of fenugreek on its own, but they seem to combine to make a whole new beast.

I'm also thinking about brewing ginger tea (with the powder I already have) instead of chamomile to mix, and see if that has more effect on the smell.

[Jeni]

Wouldn't coffee just add to the horrendous funk of cassia? I dislike coffee though...I know I have read others talking about adding coffee to cassia/henna...

I have found that if I had 2 plastic bags and then wrap my head in a towel I don't smell the cassia much. It also helps to have some air moving (fan).

Try adding conditioner, not only did it seem to help rinse the stuff out easier but it cut the smell down a lot. It doesn't get rid of the smell completely, but it does help (at least for me).

So I have a new idea about what cassia smells like. Anyone here brew their own beer (or know someone who does)? My dad does and I remember a few years ago I went to his house to visit him and when I opened the door, I was met with this awful funk of...something. Apparently it was the hops and he was doing something to them (cooking them?). All I know is I walked in and instantly got that "mouth water" you get when your going to be sick, I had to walk right back outside to keep from hurling. Cassia reminds me of that smell, only not as bad because I'm not cooking the cassia and it doesn't spread all over the house.

Just felt like sharing (I'm putting off working on my US gov paper).

[julya]

I found some senna at the health food store across the street, it was only $.50 an ounce, so I got about $1 worth of it. It was leafy, so I mixed it with some water and put it in the blender. I got some fenugreek seeds too, $.66 an ounce.

I put two spoonfuls of the senna, and one of the fenugreek seeds, and about a cup or so of water and blended it for a few minutes. It's soaking into my hair right now, covered with a plastic bag. This is fun! I'll post about my results later.

[chloeishere]

Thanks for the reply, Jeni!

I rather like the smell of coffee, which is why I asked. But on the other hand, I really don't want to ADD any more smells to it (they all seem to change and morph and become gross)... I wish there was a way to just neutralize or reduce the smell, instead of masking it. *sigh*

The smell isn't too bad when it's on my head, because it's covered by a bag and normally, at worse, I just get whiffs of it. But the before applying can sometimes make me feel a bit gaggy, because I have to stir in the liquid, and it's all like, Ewwww, I'm putting this on my HEAD?
Really, I'm being a baby though. It's not THAT bad.

I'm going to try adding conditioner, I think... but the thing is, all my not-too-strongly scented conditioners have protein in them, and as my hair doesn't seem to like deep protein treatments since I cassia'ed, I'm worried about the effects of leaving it in for an hour or two. The only protein free ones I have are Suave Green Apple (NEVER AGAIN WITH CASSIA) or VO5 pomegranate-grapeseed (strongly scented, I don't think I want to do that again. I'm too sensitive to smells).
I might try it with a protein-y conditioner and just hope for the best. If it doesn't work, well, I'll know for next time!

[Riot Crrl]

Jeni, yeah that is hops! :)

I'm kind of surprised that folks are having such problem with the cassia smell, to me it was like fresh grass or fresh parsley. Whereas henna is more like... not really rotten, but maybe cooked grass or cooked parsley.

[khyricat]

I don't have a problem with either scent.. and btw julya- I wouldn't have bothered with the blender.. senna is something I'm going to order as whole leaf next time, it doesn't seem to be catching in the strainer and I don't get the feeling that the leafy bits are doing much in my wash method..

[ilovelonghair]

chloeishere, thanks for explaining, I'll buy some and do some tests on my boyfriends shed hair. He needs it for covering grey and I need it for my henna.

[julya]

I thought that the cassia/fenugreek scent was nice. I left it on for about an hour, and rinsed in the shower for a long time. It took a good 15 minutes to rinse, but it was really easy to detangle after. I also used a catnip tea rinse. I think it was a success, but my hair is left a bit greasy in the back. I'm in the middle of trying out WO right now, that's what the grease is from.

Khyricat, how do you apply the senna? Do you make a tea? I needed to use the blender to grind up the fenugreek seeds anyhow, they came as whole seeds.

[Jeni]

Riot Crrl-see henna smells like grass to me, I like the smell of henna. Now if I could only have the skin tone for henna I'd be set. Unhappily I think I'm too "warm", not to mention my family flips out if I go to another color that isn't blond. They would crook if I went henna red/orange.

chloeishere, not sure what to tell you about the protein thing. my hair doesn't seem to care about protein. I've never done a major protein DT though (I should try it, but what to try....?).

I use Aussie 3MM, about a squirt and a few pumps of Dove Daily Moisture. Between the slight coconut smell of the 3MM and the slight perfume smell of the Dove it cuts the smell down a lot. Not sure if you hair likes cones, mine use to love them. Since I have started henna my hair is kind of indifferent to them. If I use them "Yay great hair", if not, "yay great hair". I still use them because all the conditioners I like have cones, I figure if it doesn't make my hair do strange things, why stop? Anyway. I could see using something with an intense smell could be counter productive. Try using a conditioner that has a more neutral smell. Does Suave or V05 make a neutral "conditioner smelling" conditioner?

Mixing the stuff is always the worst, I always second guess myself as I mix. DO I really want to put this stuff on my head?!?! Then I remember how shiny it makes my hair.

[khyricat]

I used it in a tea, along with my hibiscus and elderflower and then strained (but the senna powdered leaves stayed in it) and then poured it over my head, massaged, poured more, worked it through again, and rinsed... the first time I added some cornstarch to thicken it, but I decided I really don't need that with this and when I tried it without it worked fine..

[stinastina]

Okay, today I did a full up cassia treatment. Last night I mixed the dried cassia with orange juice and let it sit all night, today warmed it up a bit in the microwave and applied it to my dry hair. Covered with plastic cap and left it on for 3 hours. Washed it out, conditioned the length, ACV rinse. Here's the results:http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee20/legendhouse/cassiacomparison.jpg
I can really see the difference in the thickness as well as the color! And for anyone who's going to say 'aw, I really like the white hair', don't worry. Nothing sticks in my hair ever. Not even commercial dye. In the 'before' picture I had done the cassia treatment only a month earlier, and it was almost all gone! I think it will probably last longer for others though. I really do it for the conditioning.

Wow, very lovely ! Your hair looks thicker and shinier !

[julya]

Thanks Khyricat. I'll try it as a tea next time as I found those little leafy bits to be a hassle to rinse out.

[khyricat]

that was my issue, but remember I do it more to clean and not for the same long term stuff these guys do... so not sure how the tea would work for that.. I find for my needs (I henna every 3-4 weeks for the other and for color), it works perfectly...

[Ms Monnie]

I want to know if someone from here wrote this review (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=134553) :p.

[Jeni]

what review? It just takes me to the reply page.

[julya]

I'm interested in the cleaning aspect of senna/cassia too. And herbal cleaning in general. I tried a mixture of cassia, catnip and fenugreek as a tea. I used about 1 T of each herb with 2 cups of water. I think that I need to make the cleansing power a bit higher though, I was still a bit greasy feeling after it dried. I'm thinking less fenugreek next time, and more cassia.

I also tried cinnamon mixed in water and rinsed out as a cleaning agent with some mixed success, it gave me a bit of a rash where it got on my skin in the shower. It worked better as a scalp wash rinsed out in the sink. I'm worried a bit about the lightening effect of cinnamon though.

[Ms Monnie]

what review? It just takes me to the reply page.
Can you see this? http://www.baldwins.co.uk/perl/go.pl/shop/readreview.html?uid=8923;category_uid=407

[Jeni]

Ok that takes you to the review.

[1MegMeg]

Yay! I am currently sitting here with cassia...umm...glop marinating on my head. :)

Chloe - I was inspired by your cassia success so I copied your recipe. I am excited to see how it turns out. There is a wonderful herb store in town so I was able to pick up Senna alexandrina and fenugreek locally.

[chloeishere]

Yay 1MegMeg! Hopefully you like it as much as I do!

So, I haven't been keeping up well with my posting in this thread (I have been keeping up to date in my blog, so I copy-pasted some of this). To get up to date...
On June 3rd, I did a cassia treatment.
Recipe:

2 teaspoons ginger root powder, 1 teaspoon chamomile powder in tea strainer ball (a close call, almost didn't fit). Ball closed and placed in about 1.5 cups hot water (warm tap water microwaved for 2 minutes)-- left until cold (accidentally). Did nothing to help the smell-- ginger tea doesn't work!
1/3 cup cassia (reduced for the hell of it, from 1/2 cup)
1 tablespoon fenugreek (reduced amount, as increasing the amount does not increase the amount of slip provided)
~1 cup of tea mixture was used
about a teaspoon of cinnamon-- initially helped the smell, but it still stunk once I mixed in the cinnamon. I may use more next time-- it helped more than the ginger, in my opinion.
4 tablespoons (approx 2 ounces) Trader Joe's Citrus Refresh conditioner

The conditioner helped a LOT with the smell-- brought it down to a more manageable level, though it still smelled like cooked spinach. Added a nice citrusy note, too.
It also helped a lot with the "dreadlock" effect-- I could still move hair apart while I was massaging it in, to get to the scalp or whatever. Ease of rinsing was increased a lot.

You were right, Jeni! The conditioner didn't eliminate the smell, but it certainly reduced it to a bearable level.

I left it on for a bit over an hour, and the results were good, but nothing remarkable. Hair seemed more tangly afterwards, and I suspected it was because of the conditioner, which contained protein. It also was not nearly as wavy as I'm used to after a cassia treatment, I'm not sure why.

So then, on the 7th, I decided to do another senna/cassia treatment. This one was amazing, and I'll be tweaking this recipe from now on!


10 tablespoons cassia
1 tablespoon (approx) fenugreek
1/2 tablespoon cinnamon
chamomile tea, as before (1/2 tea ball, in warm water, reheated once by one minute, because by the time I'd gotten to it, it was stone cold. I don't want cold goop on my head again)
-- to a sort of "brownie batter" texture
Still smelled a bit , but there was definite hints of cinnamon once it was fully stirred, which decreased the nauseating impact of the scent. Cinnamon seems to go well with the cassia smell, and makes it bearable. I think I'll keep it in the recipe.

Let sit for a few minutes, then added approx. 1.5 tablespoons Generic Value Products Biolage Conditioning Balm (Sally's knock-off brand), and 1.5 tablespoons Suave Refreshing Tangerine Conditioner (both protein- and cone-free), stirred in.

I left it on for a bit over an hour, then rinsed it out mostly in the sink, moved to the shower, and did CO to get the rest out (diluted trader joe's nourish spa to wash and GVP conditioning balm as the second conditioner). Dabur Vatika oil left in, after towel drying.
Great results. I went to bed with it still wet, and it felt and looked so good in the morning.
Here's a picture:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3980c.jpg
Tweaks I'm planning on: using more cassia overall, there was barely enough gloop for all my hair because I applied generously (I will have to increase the amount of conditioner and tea, I think, to keep the texture consistent). More cinnamon to see if it helps the scent more.

Otherwise? I couldn't be happier with the result, and the ease of removal. This is the recipe I'm sticking with!

[Jeni]

YAY! Glad the conditioner helped with the smell and rinsing. I also add oil to my mix so I wondered if it was that or the conditioner that made it easier to rinse. I should really play around with my cassia mixes...I'm planing on ordering some med cassia, since it is so cheap I think I will do more "playing" with the cassia.

So I swear we have talked about this but, does the fenugreek help condition the hair? What other herbs do people add to cassia? I am such a herb noob.

[MermaidGirl]

Yesterday I ordered a whole bunch of stuff from Mehandi.com, including samples of cassia and amla, chamomile, fenugreek, ginger root powder, lavendar and rosemary (all to help with the smell), a henna flower lotion bar (just to try it out!), etc. I've harvested a good sized wad of hair from my hair brushes and am going to test different cassia mixes out to see if they in any way alter the color of my hair. Hopefully it won't make it any darker and I can order enough cassia to do a full treatment on my entire noggin! :D

Here's a question for you ladies - would amla change the color of medium to dark blonde hair?

[hurricane_gia]

I've been writing about my Cassia experience in my blog but never posted an update here. So, I should do that, huh?

I washed my hair again two days after Cassia, and after it dried the color seemed to settle down a bit. I had previously written that immediately after Cassia, my lighter-blond bits seemed dark blond, and my light-brown bits seemed dark blond, so all together my hair was very very dark blond. But, after the second wash, the lighter-blond bits returned to a light blond, but healthier looking and not as frizzy. My light-brown bits continued to look dark blond. Or perhaps a golden brown that could be mistaken for blond in the right lighting.

So, there *was* a noticeable color-change, but it became less noticeable after the first wash. Perhaps what I was seeing was not the Cassia at all, but the chamomile.

Other people have said that Cassia's effects last two weeks to a month. I didn't know if this is because of time passing or because of how often certain people wash their hair. I only wash once or twice a week, and I've been counting the washes: I've only washed three times (in two and half weeks) since the Cassia and so far the effects are lasting. I'd like to take a survey or a poll to find out how long people's cassia last with a cross-reference to how many times they washed their hair before the effects wore off.

I really do look blonder now. I don't know why, as my shed hairs are the same color they've always been, but I do in fact look blonder.

[hurricane_gia]

I am really happy with the after-effects of my first Cassia-ing. I just have a few questions:

1. Does Cassia build-up (with repeated applications) for more and more conditioning, or is what you get just what you get?

2. I've heard that Cassia lasts two weeks to one month, but since I wash my hair a lot less often than most people would mine last longer? If you count in "washings" instead of "days", how long does your Cassia last? Does it last longer for people who CO?

3. Could someone consolidate the Cassia thread into an article? I have the feeling I could find the answers to my questions if I just read the whole thread again, but I don't have the time . . . .

[1MegMeg]

I did my first cassia treatment last night, following Chloe's recipe (minus the cinnamon).

10 tablespoons senna
1 tablespoon fenugreek
~ 2 cups cammomile tea


I brewed the tea and mixed everything together in a medium bowl until it had batter consistency. I let it cool a little, but not much as I was impatient to get the swamp glop on my head. :) I found it relatively easy to put on - I applied it in sections, it didn't drip, and I put a plastic grocery bag on my head afterwards.

I let it sit for about 1 hour before I rinsed it out. I've read lots about rinsing in the tub and was going to go that route, but frankly, I was too lazy because I knew I'd have to get in the shower anyhow. So I rinsed in the shower and while it didn't rinse out as smoothly as say, conditioner, it wasn't nearly as difficult to get out as I thought. I then COed with Suave Juicy Green Apple and that was it.

When it was on my hair and afterwards while my hair was still drying the scent of the senna was quite strong - cooked spinach. Once my hair dried it smelled faintly of maple (the fenugreek).

Here are some before and after pictures. I know it's hard to tell in the pictures, but my hair feels a lot stronger is much smoother and not as frizzy, and is shinier. In both photos my waves are brushed out.

Before
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=1223&pictureid=14470

After
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=1223&pictureid=14478

[chloeishere]

I'm glad it worked so well for you, 1MegMeg! Your hair looks beautiful! That strong hair feeling is addictive!


I am really happy with the after-effects of my first Cassia-ing. I just have a few questions:

1. Does Cassia build-up (with repeated applications) for more and more conditioning, or is what you get just what you get?
I think it does build up for sure. I've done 4 cassia treatments (in a bit over a month, I believe :o-- this is a side effect of getting a ton of cheap cassia-- if I'd paid a lot for it, I'd probably conserve it better), and I definitely think the effects are lasting longer, and that my hair feels and looks better overall.
I've also noticed an increase in my pony circumference. It decreased from 3" to some smaller amount, (for some reason... I think unusually heavy shedding over this winter)-- 2.5-2.75", mostly (which I was very sad about). After my first cassia, the difference wasn't that much-- It measured around 2.75", which was within the range of measurements I was getting. Now I'm back up to 3", which I'm very happy about. And that's with hair pulled nice and tight! Yay!


2. I've heard that Cassia lasts two weeks to one month, but since I wash my hair a lot less often than most people would mine last longer? If you count in "washings" instead of "days", how long does your Cassia last? Does it last longer for people who CO?
I'm not much help with this question, as I tend to wash every other day. Although I noticed I've been able to stretch out washes more with cassia. My hair doesn't look oily as fast, I think my hair *likes* my natural sebum more with cassia (it gets smooth and silky, not piecy and oily and heavy, if I skip washes for a few days). That said, my scalp still likes being clean, so I can't push washes out too much. I've done them as frequently as 3 days apart (not even enough time for the smell to fade), and as far apart as 2 weeks apart. However, I'm just getting started, I may eventually drop down to once a month or so.

Hopefully someone who washes less frequently will duck in and answer this one for you.


3. Could someone consolidate the Cassia thread into an article? I have the feeling I could find the answers to my questions if I just read the whole thread again, but I don't have the time . . . .
I'm sure someone could, but I'm not going to volunteer, sorry! I haven't read the whole cassia thread on the archived LHC (it was before I had considered cassia), so I really don't feel like an expert.

[chloeishere]

I started thinking about it, and decided to see if I could find some bun pictures (same bun) to illustrate the volume increase. Unfortunately, different hairtoys. I have more recent photos, but I tried to stick to the first picture after cassia, just because I feel like my hair has grown a lot this month, and I'm trying to keep it to the closest length possible so that the increase is purely from volume.
Before cassia (April 26th):
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3546c.jpg
After cassia (May 14th):
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_3751c2.jpg

And that's only after the first treatment, my hair has gotten thicker since then!

[hurricane_gia]

I'm glad it worked so well for you, 1MegMeg! Your hair looks beautiful! That strong hair feeling is addictive!


Thanks for answering my questions, chloeishere!

[khyricat]

can't answer on the washing/treatment thing, I wash with SENNA Alexandria.. it works, no leave in, mild wipe down the tub time (I mix it in my hair tea, but the senna solids pass through the sieve).. and I'm done.. I leave it in while I wash my body, so that is only a few minutes unless I decide to soak in the tub a bit.. but I find it works well for me. I use it every wash, which is turning into twice a week for me.

[Patrycja]

ok.I did my first Cassia treatment and absolutely no bells and whistles.I had no extra shine but I did gain the tiniest bit of thickness.Was it worth all that trouble? Nope.I followed the directions that Rae posted,but I added a ACV rinse after my last condition.Everything I did was recorded in my blog and I really don't feel like repeating myself on here.In short,I was disappointed.Has anyone been disappointed in Cassia before or is it just me and my chemically dyed hair.

Oh and what stinks the most is that I lost alot of my prized red.Look at my new siggy.My hair looks like it did before I dyed it the last time.Its time for me to redo my roots but I'm going to do a whole head application to get that vibrant red back.
what did I do wrong?? :confused:

[julya]

I am feeling addicted to cassia too. I went to a different herb store to look for powdered senna, they had it so I just had to mix up a batch and glop it on my hair. I made a cup of catnip tea with fenugreek, then strained that and added a couple of spoonfuls of the senna.

To apply it, I put my hair into pigtail braids and dunk them into the cup until they are fully saturated, and squeeze out the excess. Then I pour the rest over my scalp while leaning over the sink. I cover it up with a plastic bag, then my turbie twist. I leave it on for as long as I feel like, up to overnight. Then I just rinse with water.

I can tell that my hair thickness has increased, which I am happy about. I can't really say how it builds up over time, or washes out as I haven't used any shampoo or conditioner since I started using cassia.

[khyricat]

patrycja: I haven't seen color change, etc, but I o short sessions, btu if you are after red- maybe henna instead of cassia?

[Siava]

I just wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I just ordered some cassia and this thread has been VERY informative. Thank you so much. :)

[Patrycja]

patrycja: I haven't seen color change, etc, but I o short sessions, btu if you are after red- maybe henna instead of cassia?


henna scares me,no lie.I really really don't want to end up with that bright orange hair.I have read the henna thread over and over again and did extensive research and still-I'm terrified to do it :(

[julya]

My hair is a little more yellow blonde than before. I didn't notice right away, but my family pointed it out. It might even look a bit golden/reddish, but very subtle. I'm surprised as my hair is a very dark blonde usually and I didn't think it was light enough to show a change in color. I also used a bit of shampoo when rinsing it out, and I haven't used any in a couple of months. Maybe that contributed to the color change.

I used the powdered senna for a few hours before rinsing it out. My hair is very shiny and nice looking, I'm happy with the results.

[SweetPea88]

Sigh...I still can't make up my mind on whether or not I should try cassia. I think I've gone back and forth on the issue a million times.

I really want the thickening and strengthening properties of cassia but I'm really scared to try it. My hair is pretty healthy overall and I'm just worried that I might sort of mess it up. I think this mostly has to do with the rinsing out process, I just don't want a whole head of tangles and lots of shedding. Any advice?

[Jeni]

Well I add EVOO and coconut oil, plus squirts of Aussie 3MM and some Dove conditioner (both have cones). This seems to help with the rinsing. Also swishing your hair around in water (tub/sink/bucket) seems to help. Then pile on the conditioner, don't comb it through but just slop it on and rinse it off, do this a few times. I do this until your hair looks more like hair and less like a dread lock and is mostly clean. I use a lot of conditioner (buy some cheap stuff).

I still don't try and comb through it at this point. At this point I SMT (with cones), leaving it on for 1-2 hours. Then i hope in the shower and rinse, at this point I comb it all out.

I do notice more shedding then normal washing, but I don't loose chunks of hair.

HTH

Do a test strip if your worried about it.

[jojo]

I just did my first cassia treatment, I mixed 100g with 3 tablespoons of honey and a large squirt of lemon juice and some boiled water and left for 1 hour. Mine looked like mud and smelt like hay which I didn't mind. I left mine on for 2.5 hours.

Ive only just washed it off, which I found really easy I just sat in an empty bath and rinsed with the shower head. I then shampooed with a neutral henna shampoo and conditioned with Aussie deep conditioner. My hair is still wet at the moment and feel conditioned not at all dry, I cannot smell the cassia, only the conditioner.

I will report back after once it has dried, with results.

[SweetPea88]

Thank you for your help Jeni, I think I may give it a try.

Does anyone know if powdered senna can be found at healthstores like Whole Foods?

[Jeni]

Your welcome. No idea about finding it in a health food store, do you just not want to order it? If your looking for something cheaper then H4H people here have used medicinal cassia with good results.

Forgot to add I also add honey (not real sure what it does or why I add it...)

[chloeishere]

Sigh...I still can't make up my mind on whether or not I should try cassia. I think I've gone back and forth on the issue a million times.

I really want the thickening and strengthening properties of cassia but I'm really scared to try it. My hair is pretty healthy overall and I'm just worried that I might sort of mess it up. I think this mostly has to do with the rinsing out process, I just don't want a whole head of tangles and lots of shedding. Any advice?

Okay, I was really worried about it at first, too. The rinsing was nowhere NEAR as bad as I was expecting from the stories I had read. I comb my hair before, and apply on "dirtyish" (maybe second day) hair, and I've never had bad tangles at all; if I have any tangles during the "dread" stage, they slip out easily once I put in some conditioner. I've had heavy shedding once... I'd say I lost 100-150 hairs. I figure they were probably loose anyway, and this way, I lose them all in one go instead of finding 150 shed hairs on my pillow and shirts for the next several days. The other times I've done it, I've lost from less than a normal "wash" shed-- maybe 10 hairs? To a bit more than a normal wash shed-- maybe 50-60 hairs. The shedding is generally a non-issue for me.

I also like adding a cone-and-protein free conditioner to my mix, just a few tablespoons-- it makes rinsing super easy, because there's so much slip. It also reduces the "dread" feel. You could probably use any conditioner you like though... I'm cone-free, and figure cones might mitigate some of the conditioning benefits of cassia, so that's how I decided.

My hair was pretty healthy before cassia too-- I'm generally not very good at blowdrying and flatironing and dying regularly and all that crap-- it's so much work! But my hair before cassia now is nowhere near as nice as my hair after cassia. It was amazing for me.

My recipe:
10 tablespoons medicinal cassia/ senna
1 tablespoon fenugreek (slip)
1/2 tablespoon cinnamon (smell only)
chamomile tea to cake batter texture
2 tablespoons cone-free/ protein-free conditioner-- I use generic biolage conditioning balm.

Mix and apply. 1-1.5 hours on, under plastic bag. Rinse in sink, then CO in shower.

[SweetPea88]

Well, I was planning on ordering medicinal cassia from herbco.com, but I wasn't sure if it would be worth ordering just that. I think I still might just go this route and maybe add some fenugreek powder to my shopping cart :). Are there any other good herbs that I could maybe add to this mix?

[SweetPea88]

Oh thank you so much Chloe for your post!! :D

I usually don't shed that much in the shower (<5 hairs) but mostly when my hair is drying/loose.

Can you recommend a good cone and protein free conditioner? Right now I don't have ANY, just my CV poo bars and ACV!

Edit: oops, I just saw which condish you use...

[jojo]

Well, 4 hours after and the front of my hair has dried, the back is still damp. I can now smell the cassia, I don't find it unpleasant but it does smell of hay, in a fresh way. My hair is a lot shinier and the wave is more pronounced, there is slight change in my colour but only where my blonder bits are. I don't feel any extra thickness, but this may change when the back dries.

Would i use it again? Hell yes! the softness, shine and condition look better, my hair is naturally shiny anyway but the cassia has just polished it up even more.

Will put some photos up, when my camera has charged.

[chloeishere]

SweetPea88-- I really like the faux-Biolage stuff, but you can also use Suave or Vo5-- they have several cone-free protein-free varieties. The Suave I used in my mix last time (I did half faux-biolage and half-Suave) was Suave Refreshing Tangerine. I know VO5 Pomegranate Grapeseed and Sun Kissed Raspberry are also cone/ protein- free. So is Suave Juicy Green Apple, but the scent is VERY STRONG, so it depends on whether you can stand strong apple scented hay on your head for an hour.

The faux-Biolage stuff (Generic Value Products brand) is very nice, and much much cheaper than the real Matrix Biolage (which is $22 for an 8 ounce bottle!), but it's still more expensive ($5.99 for 16 oz bottle) than a cheapie Suave or VO5, if it's just something you'd like to use in your cassia mix. I'd recommend Suave over VO5, because it's thicker.

Protein isn't innately bad, but I found it made my hair feel rougher/ tanglier when using with my cassia treatment. That may just be me-- my hair doesn't seem to be very fond of protein after using cassia, so I'v adjusted my routine to protein-free conditioners, and my hair is much happier.

About Herbco-- You could also get Chamomile flowers (I'd recommend whole flowers over powder), if you don't already have them, for tea. It's very conditioning, but may enhance the yellow color after cassia. It should only take one wash to get it out, though. If you want to use Fenugreek in your mix, you could get it too. A quarter pound should last a long time-- I'd recommend the powder. If you need any spices (for the kitchen), they have a lot of stuff at very reasonable prices. I wish I had gotten some cinnamon then, because I'm going through a lot of it. They also have a lot of tea (and cheap tea strainers!)

Hope that helps! :D

[Siava]

I just did a Cassia treatment and I must say...I'm not impressed. :( I also shedded big time after I rinsed it out. I think I'll just stick to SMT.

ETA I feel like a MORON! I didn't shampoo after rinsing the Cassia. I just rinsed it out and used conditioner. No wonder my hair still feels so sticky/oily.

/forehead smack

OK. So maybe I don't hate Cassia after all. I'll give it another try in a month.

[blackfrostqueen]

A friend of mine asked me the other day if you could Cassia over chemically dyed hair (I've been trying to get her off of that)...but I didn't know the answer so I figured I'd ask you all what you thought???

[Jeni]

I have only recently stopped chemically lightning my hair (March) and I use cassia. Never had a problem. I don't know if there would be an issue using it soon after dying though. Maybe wait 2 weeks and do a strand test

[hurricane_gia]

2. I've heard that Cassia lasts two weeks to one month, but since I wash my hair a lot less often than most people would mine last longer? If you count in "washings" instead of "days", how long does your Cassia last? Does it last longer for people who CO?

Well, now I can sort of answer my own question:

After about three weeks, my hair was still very silky but was starting to loose some of the brightness/shine. So, either it was beginning to wash out (tho I only washed five times, with C-COW-C or CO), or my hair was ABSORBING it.

Could that be it? Could my hair have absorbed the Cassia? I have really thirsty hair, generally.

Anyhoo . . . I did another Cassia Treatment on Tuesday (June 17) with the leftovers of my last mix. This was a more diluted treatment: rather than add another 100 grams of powder to the 2 cups (50 grams of cassia plus mixing agents) I had leftover from the first treatment, I just added a lot of conditioner to it until I had a quantity of goo that looked like it would cover all my hair. Left it on about thirty minutes, then rinsed. It was much easier to rinse this time (probably because of the conditioner) and seems to have the same results. We'll see how it does after another three weeks . . .

[freznow]

I just did my second cassia. I used banana this time, and I'm FOREVER picking little bits of it out of my hair. Either that or it's the fenugreek, but I used that last time and didn't get this.

I left it on for an hour this time. I love pretending that I'm a swamp monster in the bath tub :silly:

My hair is shiny and for the first time in a long time it's loving oil. Hmmm. Oh well, fine by me, I like when it's thirsty, it makes me feel like I'm helping it by adding oil. :lol:

[Siava]

Update! I washed my hair last night and this time I used shampoo. I'm feelin' a bit bashful now 'cause not using shampoo the first time was the problem. Now my hair feels great: soft, silky, and full.

[blackfrostqueen]

Thanks Jeni[ for your reply. I'll let me friend know and we will likely do a strand test just to make sure. She is just afraid of ending up with green hair.

[jojo]

I did a second cassia yesterday and my hair is yellow, will this wash out? It don't look too bad but I like my natural colour.

[Silver & Gold]

I did a second cassia yesterday and my hair is yellow, will this wash out? It don't look too bad but I like my natural colour.

I've had the same experience. My hair doesn't look bad, in fact I've gotten a few compliments, but I prefer my natural hair color.

For me the yellow is taking forever to come out. It has faded some but it's still quite golden. What I have discovered is that the yellow clings more to my processed and to my gray hairs. So I have come to believe that these hairs were more porous to begin with. Do you think that your hair is the same in this aspect?

[khyricat]

I think this is why I use Senna the way I do, I don't get any color change, while I'd love to keep my oxidized henna color, I'm nervous of what cassia might do to it.. that and I like being able to do short sessions as wash and still get some of the extra benefits..

[jojo]

I've had the same experience. My hair doesn't look bad, in fact I've gotten a few compliments, but I prefer my natural hair color.

For me the yellow is taking forever to come out. It has faded some but it's still quite golden. What I have discovered is that the yellow clings more to my processed and to my gray hairs. So I have come to believe that these hairs were more porous to begin with. Do you think that your hair is the same in this aspect?

I wouldnt say my hair is at all porous to be honest, my hair is very healthy. I think its just due to the colour, my hair is dark blond but I do have some very light natural highlights so the cassia I think has just bonded round these. It does look quite nice and feels fluffy, at least we get the chance to change our hair colour and doing it some good at the same time, kinda cool eh?

My greys have just gone a beige colour, Co washed it before and the water was yellow so im guessing its not permanent!

[chloeishere]

It isn't a permanent change for me. My last cassia (June 18th-- I posted the recipe here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=12556)), I accidentally left it on for two hours (I was playing a game).

Nothing bad happened, but my hair was noticably darker afterwards. It still is a bit darker now (I washed to get out the cassia stuff, and have washed once since), but it's not too bad. I think another wash or two and it will be gone completely. I do tend to retain blonder highlights than normal for a few weeks. It doesn't bother me, though.

[Jeni]

Thanks Jeni[ for your reply. I'll let me friend know and we will likely do a strand test just to make sure. She is just afraid of ending up with green hair.

Your welcome. I don't think she will end up with green hair unless the cassia has metallic salts in it (but I'm not sure on this so don't quote me). Tell her to order the sample of cassia from H4H and try it on some hair from her brush.

[julya]

So I already did another cassia treatment, I really am hooked! I think I've been using it about once a week.

This most recent time I mixed up about 5 or 6 tablespoons of powdered senna with a bunch of conditioner, VO5 of some type. I used up about half of the bottle. I didn't add any fenugreek to the mix, and I think it was better for me. I had been having a bit of trouble with build up. Either that, or the conditioner helped with the rinsing. Then I followed with a catnip tea rinse. My hair is feeling great. I can hardly believe how soft my ends are feeling these days!

[jojo]

I was having major problems with my ends, so i am so glad I tried the cassia it really does make a difference to not only the ends but overall softness and condition.

Im in love!

[betsala]

i've been keeping up with this thread daily and last week i finally used cassia for the first time. i used 100 g of cassia from the henna for hair website, 2.5 cups of tea (one chamomille bag and one orange and spice), 1 tsp ginger. i prepared it per the general instructions on this thread and left it on for 45 minutes. i then cwc ed and left my hair alone. when it dried all sticky and strawlike i didn't panic (it pays to read the whole thread :) ). after a couple of days of this i did my favorite smt, a couple of days after that a heavy oiling. it's been seven days and my hair is still dry and strawlike. it tangles easily and i haven't noticed any improvement in shine, if anything i feel likemy hair is duller and less nuanced than it was before. i'm afraid that my hair just might not like cassia, since i feel like i did everything that i was "supposed" to do. i originally really wanted to try henna, but i was afraid of changing my color too much. i am a natural redhead and though i would love to boost my shine and color, i really don't want to darken my hair for fear of it seeming browner somehow (if that makes any sense). i hoped that cassia would give me the benefits of henna (shine, thickness, strength) without the darkening, if anything i had hoped that it might highlight some of my natural highlights :) . anyway, i have some more cassia that i ordered and i am thinking of trying again in a month just to see if my results might be different then. i also wondered if it might be more effective for me if i mixed the cassia with a lesser amount of henna so that i could get some of the benefits of the henna without all of the color change. i love all of the pictures of the cassia and henna success stories, i'm just not sure of how i can make it work for my hair (or maybe i'm just scared to take a chance without a second opinion). i am sorry that this post is so long, but i know that this is the place to go for informed advice!

[Jeni]

betsala- You could try a henna gloss (henna and conditioner), I wouldn't think henna would cause you to look more brown. You could try a 50/50 mix of henna and cassia. Do some stand test, remember to wait a few days for oxidation. Head to the henna thread though for more info.

You could try adding stuff to your cassia mix (since you seem to be willing to try again). I add EVOO and coconut oil, plus some cone conditioner to my mix which seems to help with the dryness. There are also herbs you could add, Fenugreek (? or however you spell it) adds moister, I believe. I'm going to order some and try it myself.

I'm sure someone else will come on and have some ideas soon. I admire your willingness to try again! Hope it goes better the next time, if not maybe your hair just doesn't like cassia.

good luck

[betsala]

betsala- You could try a henna gloss (henna and conditioner), I wouldn't think henna would cause you to look more brown. You could try a 50/50 mix of henna and cassia. Do some stand test, remember to wait a few days for oxidation. Head to the henna thread though for more info.

You could try adding stuff to your cassia mix (since you seem to be willing to try again). I add EVOO and coconut oil, plus some cone conditioner to my mix which seems to help with the dryness. There are also herbs you could add, Fenugreek (? or however you spell it) adds moister, I believe. I'm going to order some and try it myself.

I'm sure someone else will come on and have some ideas soon. I admire your willingness to try again! Hope it goes better the next time, if not maybe your hair just doesn't like cassia.

good luck

thanks for your response jeni! i will go see what's going on over at the henna thread before i plan my next move.

[Jeni]

your welcome.

You know it's odd, did my 4th cassia yesterday, my hair is NOT happy. I don't think I added as much conditioner as I normally do. I also didnt SMT (just oiled it heavily). It feels slightly better today after I shampooed and conditioned, but it still seems rather dry at the ends. I think I will have to break down and do a SMT tonight or tomorrow.

[MermaidGirl]

... order the sample of cassia from H4H and try it on some hair from her brush.

Hi, Jeni, I know your suggestion was originally given to blackfrostqueen, but since you mentioned H4H samples, I have a question for you (or anyone else that is willing to chime in!).

I purchased samples of cassia (~ 3 g.), amla (~ 3 g.), fenugreek [for slip?] (~ 25 g.), ginger root powder [for fragrance] (~ 25 g.), chamomile [to mix with hot water to make a tea to mix with the cassia] and lavendar buds [for fragrance] (tiny amount in each sample bag, no idea how much), and some citric acid among other things from H4H and have also collected quite the wad of hair from my brush and shed hairs that come out during my CWC. My question is this: do you have any idea about the amount of cassia and other ingredients I should mix together to apply to my hair samples that would more or less approximate the mixture I will eventually put on my head should I like the results of the mix on the samples? I'm very confused by this and am hoping you or one of the other ladies might be able to give me an idea ... :pray:

TIA! :flower:

Oh, and totally OT, but what is the story behind your avatar? Its simply adorable! A winking owl! Is s/he your pet?

[Jeni]

Quite honestly I didnt worry about how much cassia/water/tea/stuff since I just wanted to make sure the cassia didnt dye my hair some odd color. I cant remember how many teaspoon the samples gave me (2?). You could probably come up with some sort of ratio. I'm bad at math but something like 2 teaspoons of cassia to 1/4th teaspoon of fenugreek/ginger. Then figure out how to translate that into a larger batch? Maybe?

What are you worried about? The color? I have not tried fenugreek/ginger/chamomile tea/lavender in my mix, do any of them give color? If not I don't know if I would worry too much with the ratio, just put your cassia, some fenugreek and ginger in a bowl and mix with enough tea and or water to get the right consistency.

I make my cassia mix like I cook, I just add what I want and how much I want. The thing I was/am worried about is any odd color something could give me so if it may color my hair I will test that. It's your hair so be as scientific as you want, but I would just mix some together and call it a day.

I actually have some lavender samples, never used them since I'm not quite sure what to do with them (let me know what you do and if you like it). Where you planning on using the citric acid in your mix? I'm not sure what it would do but I don't think you need it. I have some but it's for the henna I put on my hands and feet (helps with stringiness)

Hopefully someone will come by with more helpful advice for you.

The owl- His name is Tigger (orange, black stripes, yea I'm inventive...) and he is a red phased screech owl. No he isn't a pet, my mom rehabs and he was an animal we got in. He isn't actually winking, he had a little run in with parked car... It was spring= breeding season, you know how crazy guys can get when they think they will get to breed. He flew into a stopped car breaking the car's grill in the process. He was OK, he is blind in that eye, luckily screech owls can hunt with one eye. We released him a few months ago. He was a cute little guy, probably my favorite owl we have gotten in this year.

[Silver & Gold]

Yesterday I did a cassia treatment that turned out especially nice. My hair is so shiny, more than it ever has been and very, very smooth.
Here is what I did this time:

Boil 2 cups of water in saucepan.
Grind 1 TBL flaxseed
Add 1 TBL powdered fenugreek
Add to boiling water. Use a stick blender to make it all smooth. Let that cook for a while into a gruel. Then let the mixture cool down a bit but leave it still fairly warm. Add to the gruel:
1 TBL honey
1TBL coconut oil
Then I slowly added enough cassia to make something between a pancake batter and thick gravy consistency. I estimate that it was a little better than 1/4 cup of cassia.
I also added several drops of lavender EO (for fragrance only) and a drop or two of blood. I'm pretty certain the blood is optional. I didn't intend it at all but I pricked my finger on a stupid staple that went in wonky when I was trying to staple the package with the remaining cassia closed. (Hey, it was early Sunday morning. I popped out of bed inspired but sluggish in the thinking/reacting department.)
I applied it all to dry hair, leaning over the bathroom sink. I parted my hair a bit to get the slurry at the root area first then swirled my ends in the wide-mouthed measuring cup to soak up the rest of the mix. I covered with a plastic shower cap and let the mixture sit for about 30 minutes.
I stepped in the shower and rinsed well and then did two latherings with a CV soap bar. I followed this with a vinegar rinse using somewhere between 1-2 TBL of vinegar to 1 cup of water applied with a squirt bottle to the entire scalp, letting the mix run down to the ends of my hair. I squished vinegar rinse in my ends a bit then added a tiny bit of conditioner to the ends and let this all sit for a minute or two with the vinegar rinse before rinsing all of it out.

My hair is like silk but I did get a citation when I went out for blinding a few people with my hair. I now have to wear a scarf when I go out in the sun so that I won't be a hazard. Fortunately moonlight does not pose the same hazard so I can leave my hair uncovered at night.
My hair is also quite golden and my silver hair can't decide whether it is silver or gold, it depends on the light. So this was my best cassia treatment to date - well except for the finger prick, which still hurts a little. Next time I'll have to make note to be more careful when removing wonky staples.

[Elettaria]

Has anyone tried rosemary powder with cassia, and if so does it improve the smell? Come to that, has anyone used rosemary powder generally? I've only ever used the EO, and years ago an infusion of the dried herb in final rinses.

I've got medium brown hair, and so far I've done a henna gloss, which resulted in coppery tones, and then a hendigo gloss, which came out a bit too dark, ashy and burgundy for my taste. I washed some of the indigo out the next day, which helped a bit, but I'm planning to do a cardamon treatment to try to lighten it back to my orignal depth of colour (can't use honey as I'm vegan, and cinnamon irritates my skin). Anyway, once that's sorted, I'd like to do cassia gloss treatments to deep condition and warm my hair colour a bit (golden and coppery tones). I'm thinking of this as a base:

50g cassia or thereabouts, made up in advance for dye release
1 tsp henna, NOT made up in advance to minimise dye release
1 tbsp fenugreek
chamomile and marigold decoction (i.e. brewed up strong; I can use the leftovers for a final rinse)
conditioner (may be seen at http://www.houseofmistry.com/shop/ginseng-herbal-conditioner-p-9.html, and is truly fabulous)

Would rosemary powder (say 1 tbsp) be a good addition? I've still got seborrhoeic eczema on my scalp, and as I recall rosemary is great for that sort of thing. I'm also toying with the idea of adding brahmi, amla, coconut powder, a bit of rhubarb root (maybe not the first time in case the colour's too strong), or molasses, that sort of thing. Opinions? What would these do to the colour, condition and smell? I don't want to go any darker, and I won't die if my hair smells a bit odd for a day or two (though obviously I'd *prefer* to smell like a goddess rather than a wet dog whoh's been rolling in mouldy spinach). Has anyone tried throwing in EOs to improve the smell, and if so, which ones worked best?

[kwaniesiam]

I just did my first cassia treatment, it's sitting in my hair as I type. I mixed up chamomile tea and 1/4" cup cassia powder. I probably should have used more, its a bit sparse, but we'll see how I like it. I'm a former henna head growing out the red color. Once I rinse and dry, I'll post back with results :)

btw my natural color is brownish with the rest henna red, so I don't expect much change and don't really care if I get any.

[julya]

I tried using the cassia (senna) powder I have as a washing agent for a scalp wash, and it worked so well! I mixed up a few spoonfuls of cassia with about 1/2 c of water. I divided my into two sections like I usually do, and applied the cassia to dry hair from the roots down to about chin length. I left it on about 10 or 20 minutes and rinsed it out in the shower, holding my length out of the way of the water.

I didn't use any conditioner or leave in, just wrapped it up with a couple of towels. My hair was somewhat tangled after it finally dried, but I think that has more to do with the drying method. I left my hair down for longer than usual, and I needed to be outside. Then I decided to braid the ends of my hair, leaving it loose until about waist length.

After it was all detangled, my hair felt great. Not too dry, not greasy or oily. I'm very pleased with the results. I also think that I didn't get any color change this time.

[Medievalhair]

I would like try a cassia gloss, though I don't know what I need.

[maja04]

Hi, i've been trying to read the whole thread but I'm only on page 17 so far and i'm planning to make a Cassia treatment this afternoon so i'll jump in and ask you guys anyway hope that is ok :oops:.

Should I have newly washed hair when I put in the Cassia? Last time I only rinsed my hair, let it dry, and then added the Cassia but it was fairly clean from products then. Today my hair is quite dirty and yesterday i had some shea butter and conditioner in it, do you think it's ok to put the cassia directly on that or should i do a CO-wash before? :rolleyes:

[Tapioca]

I usually wash my hair before I cassia, then apply the mud to towel-damp hair. I'm afraid that any oils that are on there may block the absorption.

[Vainjane]

I have used cassie in the past to add color. I had bleached ends and med to dark blonde new growth. Using Cassia, ACV, and camomile tea; I was surprised how much color was added. My husband even noticed. I plan to use cassia again for condition & shine. It looks like most recomend no longer then 30 min to prevent color release.

[julya]

maja04, I don't wash my hair before applying the cassia mud. I just slop it on my hair, greasy and all. It seems to penetrate through the oils fine.

[pariate]

Can you see this? http://www.baldwins.co.uk/perl/go.pl/shop/readreview.html?uid=8923;category_uid=407

Oh my word! That was me! LOL. I've just been reading through the cassia thread again because I quite fancy a cassia session this week and stumble upon this! What a coincidence :D

[Paradise Lost]

Hi everyone!

I really don't know much about cassia, so my question is probably a silly one. :shrug:

I've read that you can't use chemical dyes after a henna treatment, is it true with cassia too? I haven't used chemical dyes for about 3 months and I would like to do a cassia treatment. But I also plan to dye my hair black again around september (with chemicals, I tried henna+indigo once, but the result was not black enough for me). I'm a bit afraid that the black won't show because of the cassia treatment... What do you think?

[mellie]

Whew, I've just read through all 37 pages of this thread! :-)

OK, I am interested in trying cassia to impart some color on my grays. I've been using henndigo but I hate the red of henna, and indigo makes me itchy, and one or both give me a blinding headache as well. I'm hoping cassia might be different!

So I think I've got some recipes from this thread, but I just want to make sure of one thing: should I shampoo directly after applying? Or will I lose color that way?

Thank you!

[maja04]

So I think I've got some recipes from this thread, but I just want to make sure of one thing: should I shampoo directly after applying? Or will I lose color that way?



I think that you can shampoo directly although i don't use shampoo so I might not be the best one to answer :p.

I myself have a question; I have started to shed lots of hair after my last Cassia treatment. I don't know if it's just a coincidence or if Cassia can do that to your hair. I didn't notice it the days after (i did the treament last wednesday) but i think it started this week-end and it just keeps coming out. :(

Do you think it's the Cassia, I haven't changed anything else in my routine.

[Catladyintown]

Hi Mellie I would just rinse the Cassia out. I have done Henna and Indigo and never shampoo or conditioner out, just rinse out. Also I now do Cassia every two weeks or so and I just rinse. But the key is to rinse very good, than I just put a small amount of Camellia oil on the tips of hair. After 4 or 5 days than I conditioner wash. HTH

[Jeni]

I don't shampoo after a cassia treatment, I do pile on the conditioner though. I cant get the stuff out without using a ton and then I usually follow with a SMT to combat dryness. This leaves my hair kind of limp but I cwc the next day so it doesn't matter.

Try not using shampoo, if you don't like it use shampoo. I wouldn't think it would pull much color out.

[mellie]

OK, thanks!

[ladystar]

I was using henna a couple of times and found that it straightens out my waves. I liked it at first but then my hair felt to thin. I have never used Cassia and was wondering if anyone has had the same experience with cassia that I had with henna?

[detritus]

My hair has gotten wavier during the time I've been using cassia. But I also started doing a lot of other new things to keep it moisturized during that time. So I can't say the cassia encouraged waves, but it hasn't seemed to hurt. I know others disagree with me, but if you are using cassia mostly for strengthening (since your hair is dark I'm assuming you don't care about color change) I recommend using just a couple tablespoons in a deep treatment. I use mine in the caramel treatment. The pure cassia mud mixed with just water or tea always made my hair super dry, which discourages waves. Plus it's a lot easier to get in and out of hair with the added slip from some conditioner or oils.

[maja04]

I've noticed that my hair has become more curly after using Cassia (2 times), my curls become more defined and I love it :). I think you should try it as it has the same properties as henna, or make a 50/50 mix of the 2.

I really would like to try Henna but beeing blonde I'm a bit afraid of the result, I'm not ready to commit to permanent red hair... yet. ;)

[ladystar]

Sound good. I think I might give it a try! Praying to god my hair doesn't become straighter. Thank you for your replies.

[detritus]

I really would like to try Henna but beeing blonde I'm a bit afraid of the result, I'm not ready to commit to permanent red hair... yet. ;)

Don't do it! :eek: The upkeep with blonde hair is horrible...I had to redo my henna every couple weeks or it looked like I was balding. I also think since henna builds up on your natural color instead of replacing your hair pigment (like chemical dyes) it ends up looking weird on anyone with light to medium blonde hair. Darker blondes look okay with it. My hair always seemed to have this weird yellow/orange glow that drove me crazy. When I used indigo to darken it up a bit, it developed a greenish hue in some lights. Not attractive. Plus it is exceedingly permanent and there's no way to disguise the difference between henna red and blond if you decide it doesn't look good. I've noticed that there are a lot of brunettes that are very happy with henna for years but the blondes always seem fall off the wagon pretty quickly.

[Jeni]

I have heard alma helps keep hair curly, or am I mistaken? I have straight hair and haven't used alma (have ordered some to play with, it's suppose to have other uses), but you might do a search, maybe adding it it cassia or henna would help you keep the curls? Again i could be totally wrong...

I'm a blond (naturally my hair is med/dark blond) and would love to have henna red hair, but I think it would look bad. I love the look people get that have darker hair, but after strand tests I have come to the conclusion that I would turn I Love Lucy red/orange (even after oxidation) and just can not pull that color off. I am now experimenting with adding a tiny bit of henna to my cassia mix which gives me a honey blond I like. I have also ordered a sample of buxus from H4H and will play with that, its suppose to make henna "cooler".

Try mixing henna/cassia/other, maybe you can get a slight red that you like without the going too red. The permanence is still there but it's not as scary and I have noticed since my last app of the cassia/henna mix, the red has faded some. Just a thought.

[pariate]

Cassia definitely gave my wurls a boost! I loved it.

[ladystar]

Thank you all:D. I will be ordering cassia this Friday and post my results. I have tried henna and amla mixed that's when it got straighter. I have been using Amla alone for 2 weeks now, it brought my waves back a little but mostly still pretty straight at my ends. Hopefully a couple more times and I will have it back to normal.:cheese:

[mellie]

When I tried amla by itself, it totally flattened my natural waves out, I was so disappointed!

[maja04]

Don't do it! :eek: The upkeep with blonde hair is horrible...I had to redo my henna every couple weeks or it looked like I was balding. I also think since henna builds up on your natural color instead of replacing your hair pigment (like chemical dyes) it ends up looking weird on anyone with light to medium blonde hair. Darker blondes look okay with it. My hair always seemed to have this weird yellow/orange glow that drove me crazy. When I used indigo to darken it up a bit, it developed a greenish hue in some lights. Not attractive. Plus it is exceedingly permanent and there's no way to disguise the difference between henna red and blond if you decide it doesn't look good. I've noticed that there are a lot of brunettes that are very happy with henna for years but the blondes always seem fall off the wagon pretty quickly.

Oh, ok that sounds a bit scary. I remember when I was growing out my coloured hair a couple of years ago, that was horrible, just like you said it looked like I was going bald. I acctually thought of henna and indigo to get a nice dark colour but now I think not! Thank you! :)

I think I will stick to Cassia, and now I've also bought shikakai powder and Amla powder. I tried it today and my hair is so soft and curly, I was afraid that it would get dry but not at all, maybe because I pre-oiled with coconut oil ON (although my fingertips looked like raisins after the application).

[detritus]

Oh, ok that sounds a bit scary. I remember when I was growing out my coloured hair a couple of years ago, that was horrible, just like you said it looked like I was going bald. I acctually thought of henna and indigo to get a nice dark colour but now I think not! Thank you! :)


Whew! Crisis averted! ;) If you wanted a strawberry blonde color like Jeni I'd say, ok but proceed with caution. But since your wanted to shoot for a darker red I'm glad I changed your mind. I know myself and ShermieGirl (and probably more people that I'm forgetting) were trying to get auburn over blonde hair and ended up very unhappy with henna.

[Ranee]

I have a question for all the long-term cassia users (people that have been using it for more than a year or so.) Do you find that your hair eventually becomes dryer/velcro like?
I would like to know because the way I figure it, is that cassia forms a layer around the hairstrand that could block out the moisture.

[detritus]

I've been using cassia for about 7 or 8 months I think. I haven't noticed any dryness problems from it, aside from the initial dryness after doing a cassia/water mud treatment. That's why I now just mix a couple tablespoons into my deep conditioning treatment instead of doing a pure mud treatment. I think the layer that cassia imparts is temporary so it doesn't build up over the long term.

[Jeni]

I haven't been using cassia for very long so I cant give you my opinion on the long term effects. But, I was told cassia is not permanent, like henna. At least for me it seems to wear away after about a month.

For the 4-5 months I have been using it my hair has only gotten better. I would think if cassia coated the hair, blocking moister, it would be noticeable pretty quickly right?

[Ranee]

I thought it was permanent, like henna! So do you do the treatment monthly then when it wears of? Does the hair get thicker? Shinier?
Ps: sorry for all the questions! I'm just having an inner struggle, to cassia or not to cassia. :D

[Paradise Lost]

Is that possible to use chemical dyes over cassia-ed hair? Or is it just like with henna and the chemical color won't show?

[Katja]

I did my first cassia treatment on Monday. I used Light Mountain neutral. I mixed the cassia with catnip tea, in which I had dissolved a big dollup of honey. In my attempt to combat the icky smell, I mixed in many drops of lavender EO, but cassia vanquished the lavender entirely. Maybe I'll add more EO next time . . .

I separated my hair into 6 sections, held with plastic jaw clips. I applied the cassia glop to dry hair. I found the amount to be somewhat excessive (I used the whole box), but not too bad. I left it on for about an hour and a half, then did a mermaid rinse. I rinsed for a long time under the shower -- the initial rinse was surprisingly yellow. As others noted, my hair felt a bit velcro-like.

Once the water ran clear, I applied SMT, and left it on throughout the rest of my shower. This helped ALOT with the velcro texture. When I rinsed out the SMT, my hair felt soft, but a bit different, bigger somehow. :) As my hair airdried, I could tell it had much more body. I had hoped that the cassia + catnip would help to stain my scattered silver hairs, but I don't notice any color change there. :(

I ordered lots of cassia from Monterey Bay Spice Co. (herbco.com), so I think that I will experiment some more, possibly weekly, to help strengthen and give body.

[Jasmine19]

Guess that Cassia gives an Auburn/Brown color to the hair!!? I want to color my hair in that one!! After how many applications do you get color??

What are the benefits of Cassia?

[wintersun99]

Guess that Cassia gives an Auburn/Brown color to the hair!!? I want to color my hair in that one!! After how many applications do you get color?? What are the benefits of Cassia?

Have you read through his whole thread? It seems that there are some misunderstandings... Cassia doesn't color hair. If prepared for dye release, it may give a pale blonde color to gray. More often then not, it is for condition and shine. Also read about it here: www.hennaforhair.com (http://www.hennaforhair.com)

[wintersun99]

Is that possible to use chemical dyes over cassia-ed hair? Or is it just like with henna and the chemical color won't show?

You can chemical color over both Cassia and BAQ Henna and vice versus. If there is any question as to whether what you used was adultered in any way, do a strand test first. :)

[Paradise Lost]

Thank you for you answer. I'll do a strand test then. :)

[Bene]

is there such thing as a cassia gloss?

[Jeni]

I think you could do a gloss with cassia but unless you have very light hair/white hair I'm not sure why you would do it. I believe people do henna glosses to keep the dye light, cassia barely has a dye...

But yes I do think you could do it, but I'm not sure how much of the cassia benefits you will get.

I'm sure someone else will pipe in soon.

[detritus]

is there such thing as a cassia gloss?
This is all I ever do anymore. Pure cassia mud (cassia plus water) was just too drying and would give me more yellow color than I wanted on my blond roots. I started mixing in just couple tablespoons of powder into my caramel treatment mix and am very happy with that. It seems like the cassia is still able to do its job through all the oils and stuff in the treatment and it's a lot easier to apply and wash out. Plus it saves a lot of money cause cassia isn't cheap.

[Bene]

thank you :)

[littlemiss]

Can anyone who lives in Australia tell me where I can buy some cassia????

[maja04]

I've already asked this but don't think I got an answer so I ask again (hope that's ok): Has anyone experienced hairloss after using Cassia?

I noticed an increase in hairloss after using Cassia the third time. I then think there was a drop in the shedding after a couple of weeks and now I did a 4th Cassia treatment a week ago and I'm losing so much hair that it scares me.

I'm on vacation now, but as soon as I get home I'm going to go to the doctor to see if she can help me, but I wanted to know if maybe others had experienced the same thing.

[detritus]

I've already asked this but don't think I got an answer so I ask again (hope that's ok): Has anyone experienced hairloss after using Cassia?

I noticed an increase in hairloss after using Cassia the third time. I then think there was a drop in the shedding after a couple of weeks and now I did a 4th Cassia treatment a week ago and I'm losing so much hair that it scares me.

I'm on vacation now, but as soon as I get home I'm going to go to the doctor to see if she can help me, but I wanted to know if maybe others had experienced the same thing.

I haven't. Are you using just cassia mixed with liquid? It could be that the friction of the mud is pulling loose hairs from your scalp. Maybe you should try mixing it in with conditioner or something else with slip to prevent that kind of mechanical damage. I really like mine mixed in the caramel treatment.

[curls2grow]

Over several days, I have read through all 40 pages of this thread. ::cheese:

I am approximately 40&#37; gray at this point; some days it looks closer to 50%. I still have about 6" of permanent color growing out along the length in various places. Much of my hair is natural from root to end. Last time I had permanent color applied to full head of hair was 4/07. Stopped "low-lighting"/weaving with foils (to break up the color line) in 1/08. My gray, at this point, is not very pretty. Sort of white, or dull gray. My real hair color appears to be dark brunette, almost black. I want to do something to increase shine and reduce frizz. Cassia was suggested to me on another forum.

So here's my slew of questions. Some of them may seem a bit redundant, but please help me anyway. :o


Will my gray hair turn beige or pale blonde?
If I add conditioner to the mixture, will that cut the effectiveness of the Cassia for gloss/shine?
I see people mention using plastic garbage bags or plastic wrap. Can I use a plastic processing cap (the disposable clear showercap looking things they sell at beauty supply stores)?
When mixing with water, can this be regular tap water from the sink, or bottled water, or boiled water?
Has anyone tried adding Cassia to a Suave (or similar) conditioner, and not using any water? Does the Cassia not "activate" if I were to do that? I'm thinking that will help minimize tangles.
Do you use gloves when you apply the Cassia? I have latex disposable gloves; are plastic ones better?
How much Cassia should I order if I am really going to do this goopy mess? I was thinking 300-400g, since the site says that 300g is for shoulder length straight hair. My hair details are below.


I am thinking of starting with samples from H4H, but would that be enough to do a strand test and maybe one real application for hair? My hair is currently APL when wet, shoulder length when dry. It's 3b/3c. I am really nervous about trying Cassia, worried that it will yellow my gray hair and dry out my hair.

I appreciate any help/advice.

[Jeni]

Will my gray hair turn beige or pale blond? I don't know, I don't have any greys, I think that is a possibility though.
If I add conditioner to the mixture, will that cut the effectiveness of the Cassia for gloss/shine? I use to add conditioner to my mix, I still got shine and I think it helped with rinsing. I no longer add conditioner because I now use feungreek (sp?) and I think it works much better.
I see people mention using plastic garbage bags or plastic wrap. Can I use a plastic processing cap (the disposable clear shower cap looking things they sell at beauty supply stores)? I don't see why not. You just need something to cover your head to contain mess/keep it from drying out. You could even use one of those clear rain-caps I see older women wear, anything plastic-y should work.
When mixing with water, can this be regular tap water from the sink, or bottled water, or boiled water? I just use hot tap water. I know boiling water isn't suppose to be good for henna (it can kill it), not sure about cassia.
Has anyone tried adding Cassia to a Suave (or similar) conditioner, and not using any water? Does the Cassia not "activate" if I were to do that? I'm thinking that will help minimize tangles. I haven't the foggiest if you need water to "activate", or even if it needs to be activated. The only worry I would have about using only conditioner is the mix not being runny enough. Maybe if you use loose/liquidy conditioner (you want it loose, but not runny)? I think at that point your doing a cassia gloss which I have no experience with.
Do you use gloves when you apply the Cassia? I have latex disposable gloves; are plastic ones better? I think some people do, some don't. I get my mother to apply my mix (I tried once and it did not end well) and she wears gloves, but I have started adding henna to my mix...Just cassia shouldn't stain your hands (maybe your nails would turn slightly yellow?) but if your worried, wear gloves. I would think any gloves would work.
How much Cassia should I order if I am really going to do this goopy mess? I was thinking 300-400g, since the site says that 300g is for shoulder length straight hair. My hair details are below. That's a hard question to answer as I have APL 1a/f/ii hair. I use 100g of cassia and always have leftovers. Most people seem to agree that H4H way over estimates the amount you need. The good news is that the paste can be frozen for next time. Maybe someone closer to your hair type will have a recommendation on the amount you need.If your worried about coloring your greys I would definitely do a stand test. Maybe on a few greys that are hidden under your hair? People who don't want color from cassia mix it up and apply it immediately and only leave it on for like 30-40mins. I have never tried not to get color so again, no experience with this.

You would have to order a lot of samples for a full application, I couldn't even guess how many bags you would need to order. The sample bags are really just for stand tests, I think you get ~ a tablespoon in each bag. I would recommend ordering a sample bag or 2 and do a strand test, then if you like the results order enough to do your whole head.

Hope that helped.

Oh and if you do end up liking cassia you might consider the cassia from herbco.com, its cheaper then the stuff from H4H but it works (at least for me and a few other people who have tried it) just as well.

[curls2grow]

Thank you for your helpful reply, Jeni. :)

[Jeni]

Your welcome! Hopefully it will help.

I forgot to add that if cassia adds any/too much yellow to your hair H4H has this new stuff called Zizyphus Spina Christi http://www.mehandi.com/shop/zizyphus/. It seems to give the benefits of henna/cassia but with no color at all. I have ordered some to try but have yet to get around to trying it so I cant say whether it works or not. Just thought I would let you know about it (in case you didnt already).

[curls2grow]

No, I have never heard of Zizyphus Spina Christi before, but I only just started paying attention to Cassia information in the last week or so. :o Thank you for mentioning it. I might try this if the Cassia doesn't work out on the strand test.

Since I don't brush or comb my hair, do you think it would be OK to gather my hair sample from shed hairs?

[detritus]

Your welcome! Hopefully it will help.

I forgot to add that if cassia adds any/too much yellow to your hair H4H has this new stuff called Zizyphus Spina Christi http://www.mehandi.com/shop/zizyphus/. It seems to give the benefits of henna/cassia but with no color at all. I have ordered some to try but have yet to get around to trying it so I cant say whether it works or not. Just thought I would let you know about it (in case you didnt already).

Hmm. I might have to try this out later. I just wanted to stop by to give my two cents on the whole color change issue. I didn't think cassia was causing any substantial (or permanent) change in color to my blond hair, but since it's grown I can see that the repeated cassia treatments actually did build up and cause some brassiness on the ends. No idea if this change will turn out to be permanent (I hope not). So if you don't want any color change, definitely leave the mix on for less than 30 minutes and possible consider not using it at all. I'm going to stop using cassia for a while to see if the color fades or I notice any change in texture. Honestly, I love the caramel treatment (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=454) so much I may just stick with those from now on.

[Jeni]

yes, shed hair would work just fine.

[GoldenRed]

I am exploring possibilities for natural color and enhancement. I used to be a henna head. I may try to mix up a new brew!

[JessTheMess]

Has anyone done a Cassia treatment with rosemary tea?

[FrannyG]

Your welcome! Hopefully it will help.

I forgot to add that if cassia adds any/too much yellow to your hair H4H has this new stuff called Zizyphus Spina Christi http://www.mehandi.com/shop/zizyphus/. It seems to give the benefits of henna/cassia but with no color at all. I have ordered some to try but have yet to get around to trying it so I cant say whether it works or not. Just thought I would let you know about it (in case you didnt already).

This is good information. When my hair was darker, the Cassia colour wasn't noticeable, but with the shade of blonde I have now, it is. Thank you, Jeni.

[Jeni]

Welcome. I still have some sitting in my bathroom drawer, haven't gotten around to trying it. Let us know how it all turns out

[FrannyG]

It's been a while since I've done a cassia treatment. When I did them before, I always let the cassia sit for about a half hour or so before application. Since my hair is now a light blonde shade, the last time I did it, my hair just went too gold.

What's the least amount of time necessary for cassia to sit after mixing with water so as to avoid dye release?

[Henna Sooq]

To avoid any dye release, which can be a little tricky as it can come anyway possibly, but I would say a least amount of time would 20-30 mins and use right away and only leave on the hair for 30-60 mins for the least amount of color, but for the other benefits :)

[FrannyG]

To avoid any dye release, which can be a little tricky as it can come anyway possibly, but I would say a least amount of time would 20-30 mins and use right away and only leave on the hair for 30-60 mins for the least amount of color, but for the other benefits :)

Thank you very much! :)

[Henna Sooq]

welcome :)

[maryva]

FrannieG -- I just checked out your hairsite and loved it...your braids are so beautiful! Do you somehow do them yourself??? I'd love to learn how to braid my hair...I especially loved the 5-strand french and dutch braids. Sorry this is a little off topic. I tried my first cassia last night and am liking it so far...hope you have a great day!

[Jeni]

Off Topic: Franny G- your my hair twin so figured I'd ask you. What size ficcare do you use?

I never let my cassia sit before applying, just mix and slap on my head. Of course then I leave it on for hours at a time.

[Neysa]

Forgive the newbie question, but I think it hits the mark here: I have only heard good things about what henna does for your hair in terms of softness, strength, manageability, and I believe I read that it can help with growth and thickness? Only one problem: I'm blonde. I'd like to stay that way. How does one accomplish the former, without sacrificing the latter? Is THAT where cassia will come in, and if that's the case, how much does one need for natural waist length?

[Jeni]

Yes, if you have blond hair and want the benefits of henna without the red, try cassia. Cassia can add a slight golden tone to hair so if you are worried about that do a strand test.

For me cassia's benefits are temporary (~month), but I find it worth it. It makes my hair shinier, feels stronger, slightly thicker (maybe), and helps keep my ends looking good. I don't think it helps your hair grow faster but it has allowed me to spread out the trims.

[maryva]

Hey Jeni , Mellie, and all,

Sorry I haven't been able to post pictures from my cassia treatment last night -- I was going to try to have someone at work take some, but it got too busy and didn't have a chance. I need to get a digital camera...I have enjoyed getting to see photos of all of you all's hair. I really love this board and am learning so much!

I do think the cassia has given my hair a little more body and smoothness; it does look slightly more golden colored than before, but I also used catnip tea and molasses and cinnamon with my cassia mix, so those could be the cause too I suppose. I'm not sure I got the full benefits of the cassia because I was not able to grind the leaves very well. Would one week be too soon to try another treatment with cassia powder? Thanks for any suggestions.

[Jeni]

You could do it again in a week.

Cant wait to see a pic

[mellie]

Yes, can't wait to see!

Do you have a friend that has a coffee grinder?

[FrannyG]

FrannieG -- I just checked out your hairsite and loved it...your braids are so beautiful! Do you somehow do them yourself??? I'd love to learn how to braid my hair...I especially loved the 5-strand french and dutch braids. Sorry this is a little off topic. I tried my first cassia last night and am liking it so far...hope you have a great day!

Thank you so much, Maryva! :blossom: Yes, I do my own braids. When I joined LHC, I couldn't even make a simple French braid, or use a hair stick. Everything I've learned, I've learned at LHC. :)

Off Topic: Franny G- your my hair twin so figured I'd ask you. What size ficcare do you use?

I never let my cassia sit before applying, just mix and slap on my head. Of course then I leave it on for hours at a time.

I use medium Ficarres pretty much across the board, whichever style of clip they are.

I have a few large maximas, and they're fine as well.

I think one of the things that may have made the colour so golden the last time I used cassia was that I used chamomile tea instead of water in the mix.

I'll skip that this time, and maybe let the cassia set for only about 5 minutes or so.

Thanks for the advice! :)

[FrannyG]

Forgive the newbie question, but I think it hits the mark here: I have only heard good things about what henna does for your hair in terms of softness, strength, manageability, and I believe I read that it can help with growth and thickness? Only one problem: I'm blonde. I'd like to stay that way. How does one accomplish the former, without sacrificing the latter? Is THAT where cassia will come in, and if that's the case, how much does one need for natural waist length?

Please, never apologize for any question around here. :)

Yes, this is exactly where cassia fits in. It gives the conditioning without sacrificing your natural hair colour.

As far as measurments, it's different for everyone, because of hair thickness and so on. I tend to use far less than the amounts specifed on the websites that sell cassia.

When my hair was at almost natural waistlength, I only used about 100g per treatment, and that completely saturated my hair.

However, my hair is fine and my ponytail circumference is about 3 inches. You may need more or less depending on your thickness.

I hope some others will answer as well as to how much they use.

[chloeishere]

I use about 3/4 of a cup of cassia (I think 100 grams is slightly less than half a cup), and about 1.5 cups liquid (plus a few tablespoons conditioner, a tablespoon of cinnamon, and a tablespoon of fenugreek). I think maybe my mix is thicker than most though-- it's about the consistency of thickish brownie batter. Also, I use cheap medicinal cassia, so I don't worry about using less-- I tend to conserve less than most, I think, as a result. I like to KNOW all my hair is saturated. :D
My pony circumference ranges between 2.75 and 3 inches, and my hair is about 23 inches, dry and wavy. I'm between APL and BSL, if that's clearer to you.

I think most people here use less cassia then the "hair websites" say you'll need... I'd guess with my hair, I would need about a cup/ cup and a half (200-300 grams) at waist, but I won't know until I get there, eh? And my estimates are more generous than most.

[Jeni]

I agree with what others above me said, I use much less then H4H recommended for my hair, maybe 1 cup of cassia. I cant really recommend an amount sorry. I would recommend you err on the side of caution though. Freeze any leftovers, that's what I do and it works fine.

I use about 3/4 of a cup of cassia (I think 100 grams is slightly less than half a cup)

I thought 110g was about 1 cup, but maybe I'm wrong. Someone posted the conversion a few pages back I believe.


I use medium Ficarres pretty much across the board, whichever style of clip they are.

I have a few large maximas, and they're fine as well.

I think one of the things that may have made the colour so golden the last time I used cassia was that I used chamomile tea instead of water in the mix.

I'll skip that this time, and maybe let the cassia set for only about 5 minutes or so.

Thanks for the advice!

Thanks. Figured I'd ask you instead of starting another thread. I have never used chamomile tea in my mix (had a bad tea experience). Your welcome.

[FrannyG]

Well, I did my latest cassia treatment, and while my hair feels great, there is definitely an unwanted golden cast to my hair about which I'm not entirely happy. I used plain water, mixed it up really well, and put it straight on my head. I left it on for an hour.

The slight colour deposit was never an issue in the past, when my hair was a darker blonde or brown, but it is now. It especially grabbed the more highly processed length, not surprisingly. Yet that's the area that needs the cassia protection.

Is there anything I can use in place of cassia? I'm sure I read that there is another plant that has similar properties, but leaves no stain at all. I've searched and searched and I'll be darned if I can find it.

[mellie]

FrannyG, I think you are looking for Sedr:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=12995

[FrannyG]

Thank you, Mellie. I believe that was what I was looking for. :)

[curls2grow]

Well, I did my latest cassia treatment, and while my hair feels great, there is definitely an unwanted golden cast to my hair about which I'm not entirely happy. I used plain water, mixed it up really well, and put it straight on my head. I left it on for an hour.
Yikes, that's exactly what I was planning to do with my hairball and some of my 25g bag of Cassia, for the strand test. I have a lot of gray/white hair and I don't want it to be yellow at all. I will try it on the hairball in the next week or so. Then I may just have to settle for the Zephyr stuff if I want any form of gloss/shine from a natural source.

[FrannyG]

Well, I'm not overly concerned about my results, because I know from past experience that the colour change is not permanent.

Again, I must state that most of the length of my hair is damaged from over processing. It was dyed from blond to brown, and then back to blond again. It's not surprising that it grabbed the colour so much from the cassia. The first few inches from my roots did not take on that gold tone.

Do that strand test. Chances are good that you'll be just fine.

[wintersun99]

New site; new cassia obovata experiments! :D

Has anyone else experimented with more cassia mixes lately?

I'm trying Cassia for the first time! :disco:

Last night, I applied a full Cassia (that had been prepared about 2 hours early) and left on for approx. 5 hours (fell asleep) when rinsed, my hair felt pretty stiff (very similar to the way it feels after a henna) but after it dried it felt great.

I had some leftover and left it to sit out all night, I presume that it would have dye released by then AND because my hair is in dire need of a protein treatment, I decided to mix the leftover with some olive oil and some mayo all currently on my head... I don't have any expectations, just playing...

p.s. my mix:
100g of cassia
warm distilled water
approx. 1/8 cup of ACV

[wintersun99]

Update:

I just rinsed the second mixture out of my hair, I did have to use conditioner to do so, but now that my hair is dry I AM IN LOVE with the condition! It feels wonderful. I notice no color change, but then I didn't really think that I would as I have both henna/indigo in my hair... but it will be great to see what happens when I have new roots with some gray, come in. I believe I'm a cassia convert! :)

[mellie]

Wintersun99, how does the smell compare to henna/indigo?

[wintersun99]

hmm, I didn't really notice - which means it must be significantly better :)

Actually, I think there was a smell during the process, but nothing that I noticed after I rinsed, no lingering "hay-like" smell as with henna.

[mellie]

Ah, sounds great!! :-)

[ljkforu]

Cassia is great! I just did my son's long hair with split ends. I'm trying to help him groom and save his length. His hair his dark brown. I used 3g of Cassia Obovata mixed with Herbal Essence Rose and did a gloss pack for 2 hours. His hair looks great, I'm only going to have to trim an inch of his probably 28 inches of hair to make him tidy.

[ljkforu]

Ah, sounds great!! :-)
Smelled fine. I mixed it with Rose conditioner and it locked the scent into his hair. An improvement I promise :)

[Elainehali]

Does cassia give the same amount of shine as henna?

[ljkforu]

Does cassia give the same amount of shine as henna?
It does seem to on my son's virgin hair as compared to my henna treated hair.

[SaveTheTapirs]

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I'm a little confused. My friend gave me a box of Henne Natur "neutral henna," and the ingredients are Cassia Obovata and Lawsonia Inermis. If I'm not mistaken, that last one is henna. It says the mixture is non-coloring, but what about that henna? Wouldn't that color your hair? I'm scared to try it until I get to the bottom of this. Thanks!

[ljkforu]

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I'm a little confused. My friend gave me a box of Henne Natur "neutral henna," and the ingredients are Cassia Obovata and Lawsonia Inermis. If I'm not mistaken, that last one is henna. It says the mixture is non-coloring, but what about that henna? Wouldn't that color your hair? I'm scared to try it until I get to the bottom of this. Thanks!
I have gotten a lot of color out of neutal henna before and none from cassia. I highly recommend Cassia Obovata from H4H to be safe.

[Isa-belle]

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I'm a little confused. My friend gave me a box of Henne Natur "neutral henna," and the ingredients are Cassia Obovata and Lawsonia Inermis. If I'm not mistaken, that last one is henna. It says the mixture is non-coloring, but what about that henna? Wouldn't that color your hair? I'm scared to try it until I get to the bottom of this. Thanks!
I am very familiar with this brand, as it is the most common in France.
If you have brown hair, the little lawsonia there is in this "neutral henna" won't show.
If you have fair hair, yes, it will show., especially if you let it sit for a long time and if you do this several times. Blonde friends who's used this have developed a slightly warmer, darker tone - what we call Venitian Blonde here.

Bottom line: yes, it will colour your hair if you have a light colour to start with.
I think Henne Natur's reasoning is that
1. Lawsonia definitely adds to the hair care (I've found personally that Lawsonia had a much greater effect than cassia on my hair).
2. most women using this in France are dark-haired to start with (They will come from Northern Africa, India, or the Middle East - not many women of French descent use henna), so they will never notice any colour change. :)

[SaveTheTapirs]

Thank you so much ladies. That is exactly what I needed to know! My hair is medium brown, so maybe I'll do a strand test and see how I like the result. I probably wouldn't leave it on for more than 20 minutes anyway.

[Isa-belle]

Doing a strand test is the safest way to go - but with your hair colour I'm pretty certain you won't get any colour change, especially if you leave the mixture on for only 20 minutes :)

[Tapioca]

It could also be older Lawsonia that is "past it's prime". It would still impart conditioning, but the coloring would be less.

[crazy me]

Can you use cassia as a way of putting in highlights without the harsh chemicals? My hair naturally lightens on the expose part when I'm in the sunlight for periods of time while the rest of my hair stays a darker blond/ brown color. I kind of like the different shades in my hair and would like to add hightlights to my hair but I don't want to use chemicals.

Is this possible? Has anyone ever tried it? Are there any tips for a successful application as such?

[Isa-belle]

Wouldn't honey be more efficient than cassia for this?
Cassia with camomille and rhubarb does lighten blonde hair; but yours may be a bit too dark for this to work?
At any rate, it wouldn't hurt to try. At the worst, you wouldn't have hightlights, but your hair would have gotten a wonderful treatment :)
My sister's hair seems to be the same colour as yours, and lightens up in the sun; I am planning on giving her a "blond henna" treatment soon and see whether it helps giving her highlights.

[Jeni]

I started out with light ash blond (1st pic in sig) using only cassia. Cassia never made my hair lighter, it did add a slight golden tone which made it look slightly darker. In my opinion cassia does not lighten your hair, you need something with peroxide or bleach to do that. If you want to go the non chem route try honey, people seem to have some luck with that. The mix seems like it would be runny, so you may have problems getting it only on certain areas, I have never tried it so I could be wrong.

[mellie]

Crazy_me, I think what you are trying for might be possible with rhubarb. If you are curious, you can see a little sample on my dark hair in my blog - look for "Rhubarb"!

[MandaMom2Three]

Well, I'm going to the health store this weekend, I'm going to look for some cassia. I'm actually entertaining the idea of henna, but I'm not sure I "ready for a commitment right now" :p so I'll stick to cassia for a while :D

[crazy me]

Thank you guys so much. When I can get to a store that carries it (I don't read Italian well enough to find any here) then I think I will have to try it. I will try to post pictures of before and after for those of you who have the same colored hair as me and are wondering how it would look.

[Kitara]

This may have already been addressed, but what is the general opinion on Rainbow clear? I am doing some strand tests of henna and cassia mixed and was wondering if I needed to place another order with H4H or if this is an option.

[Tapioca]

I get my stuff at www.herbco.com. Really good prices, they ship fast, and they always toss in some tea samples.

[Bianca]

I tried cassia a couple times. Here's my mix:

2 tablespoons cassia
Honey
Olive oil
1 banana

I know it's not a lot of cassia, but it made my hair softer than ever. I didn't measure it, just a little of this, and a little of that sorta thing :disco:

[SeaPhoenix]

I've see the posts on rhubarb and cassia for a temporary dye... I'm curious on another one. I've read calendula(marigold) yields a slight reddish color... has anyone tried a mix of cassia and calendula yet?
I did notice some listings saying rainbow henna marigold blond is a mix of that. Has anyone used it by itself and noticed any shift in tone? More golden?

[Cate]

I get my stuff at www.herbco.com. Really good prices, they ship fast, and they always toss in some tea samples.
I looked on Herbco for cassia and can't find it. Is it under another name?

Thanks much!

[Jeni]

look under Senna, you want the powder

Heres the link http://www.herbco.com/p-646-senna-leaf-powder.aspx

[Velouria]

Has anyone found cassia to have a hair-straightening effect?


I've decided to give up henna because it's become clear that it's pulling out my curls. I was planning to still use cassia.


But the thing is, I've always used both cassia and henna in combination, so I can't be sure that cassia isn't also lessening my curl....since it has some of the same effects as henna, it occurred to me as a possibility.


Any experience or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Sighridh]

I did a cassia/henna mix over my lightened hair that had been dyed just the week before and was a medium blonde. The result was very very orange and not at all flattering with my complexion. It looked better after the henna oxidized over the next week and wasn't a bad color, but still too orange for my skin.

The mix was 200 grams Cassia to 50 grams BAQ henna.

[ljkforu]

I did a cassia/henna mix over my lightened hair that had been dyed just the week before and was a medium blonde. The result was very very orange and not at all flattering with my complexion. It looked better after the henna oxidized over the next week and wasn't a bad color, but still too orange for my skin.

The mix was 200 grams Cassia to 50 grams BAQ henna.
What would you like to do to your hair, if anything?

[Sighridh]

Well the following weekend I did a henna/indigo mix(I think it was 1/4-1/3 of the mix as indigo) which worked really well. I decided to go for a tone that would make it easy to blend my roots as they grow out and I go to a straight henna or cassia/henna mix.

I'm not sure how many grays I have hiding in there, so don't know how orange they could be with a henna/cassia mix or if I'll have to go straight henna to wind up with a somewhat deeper color...
I do plan to continue with cassia on my length for the extra conditioning.

[pariate]

Has anyone found cassia to have a hair-straightening effect?


I've decided to give up henna because it's become clear that it's pulling out my curls. I was planning to still use cassia.

Hi Velouria

I found that cassia seemed to accentuate my wurls and curls! I've never used henna, so I can't make any comparison with that, but I think you'll probably be okay with it. The water in my old town was hard as anything and sometimes it took quite a lot to coax my wurls into making an appearance. Anytime I used cassia I had increased volume and wurl. Loved it! :) Good luck, hope it works out.

:flower:

[Velouria]

Thanks pariate, I'm glad to hear that.

[Fantak]

I've been reading through the thread (thank you for all the valuable info everyone!) and wanted to check the following:

Will I get the full results (shininess and some colour) from cassia if I put it on one day old hair that has a small amount of coconut oil rubbed in? or does it need to be freshly 'pooed and clarified? :S

Thanks!

EDT: I went ahead and cassia-ed anyway! Turned out great :D

[littlemiss]

I read this thread in bits and pieces it was great!! and did my first cassia treatment messy but with great results!!! Im hooked!!! how long does the lush feel and look last??

[Roseate]

All right, you've got me. I'm sitting here with a lovely head full of cassia slop- we'll see how it goes! My mix, for the curious:

2T cassia
enough chamomile tea w/a dash of ACV to make a batter-like goo

I let it sit 20 min then added:

dash of honey
dash of Hollywood "Olive Oil"(which is really a blend of oils)
6T conditioner (Giovanni Smooth as Silk)

Sectioned hair in 6 buns, slopped it on one section at a time (spraying each with water first until damp), now it's up in a showercap, looking very fetching indeed. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Jeni]

Good luck! Hope you like the results

[Themyst]

I've decided to go for it! Would an experienced member here please look at my plan to see if it sounds right?

I want to use Cassia to strengthen and gloss my hair. My current hair color is:

http://themysteriouslady.com/hairtexture.jpg

So I don't expect the Cassia to have any coloring effect. However, I would like to go a little darker, so I thought I'd add some alma. I also read that if I add sage and cider vinegar it would tone down any kind of brassiness that may occur. I'm trying to avoid lemon because I don't want to risk any drying. Also, I might add some ginger to cut down on the smell.
Does this sound right?

I was looking to order my supplies at hennaforhair.com but that website is not very user friendly and it jumps to different websites (mehandi.com/paypal.com). I don't like that - are there other merchants that sell quality cassia that anyone could recommend? I have no health food stores near me.

One other question - has anyone noticed hair is easier to comb out several days after a cassia treatment? Just curious about any detangling effects it may have.

Thank you for any advice! I've been reading up on this for a couple of weeks now. I am so excited about trying this.:)

[Roseate]

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Success! The showercap and all the conditioner kept the mix moist, so it was no problem to rinse out. I don't mind the herbal smell that's still lurking around my head.

And my hair is very soft, in a completely different way than I've gotten from other conditioners- I have coarse wavy hair, and it almost feels like the strands themselves are softer, not just slipperier. The wave pattern seems to be enhanced. Perhaps a very slight golden tone, but I have dark blonde hair anyway, so I could be imagining that.

I'm glad I've got enough for a few more treatments! :heart:

[Jeni]

I've decided to go for it! Would an experienced member here please look at my plan to see if it sounds right?

I want to use Cassia to strengthen and gloss my hair. My current hair color is:

http://www.thecrazylanes.com/hairtexture.jpg

So I don't expect the Cassia to have any coloring effect. However, I would like to go a little darker, so I thought I'd add some alma. I also read that if I add sage and cider vinegar it would tone down any kind of brassiness that may occur. I'm trying to avoid lemon because I don't want to risk any drying. Also, I might add some ginger to cut down on the smell.
Does this sound right?

I was looking to order my supplies at hennaforhair.com but that website is not very user friendly and it jumps to different websites (mehandi.com/paypal.com). I don't like that - are there other merchants that sell quality cassia that anyone could recommend? I have no health food stores near me.

One other question - has anyone noticed hair is easier to comb out several days after a cassia treatment? Just curious about any detangling effects it may have.

Thank you for any advice! I've been reading up on this for a couple of weeks now. I am so excited about trying this.:)

I cant give an opinion on the alma darkening (I have added alma to my mix, didnt notice any darkening) or sage/vinegar reducing brassiness (never heard of this but that doesn't mean it isnt true). I have never added any lemon to my mix (100% cassia or henna/cassia), I don't see the purpose. I don't add ginger either (I hate the smell) but I know other people have and I believe it helped with the rotten hay/grass/spinach/hops smell.

I order my cassia from herbco.com. Go to "bulk spices" and look for "senna". It is not exactly the same stuff as on H4H, its a slightly different plant, but it works the same (it was talked about earlier on the thread). I have used both and find the stuff from herbco.com to work the same. Its also cheaper (~$3/lb, though shipping is kind of high so if you need any teas/spices/oils get them). The only thing I have found that is different witht he stuff from herbco is that it is not as finely ground but that does not effect anything.

I have found my hair seems to be generally easier to deal with a few days after I do a mud. My hair tangles if you even think about looking at it but cassia (even better now that I have added henna) does seem to lesson the tangles and make my hair feel stronger so detangling is easier.

Good luck, hope it works out for you. I find my hair feels pretty funky when I rinse, SMT/deep conditioner seems to help. I also have added EVOO, coconut oil, honey, conditioner and fenugreek (also from herbco), to help with moisturizing and ease of rinsing, seems to help.

[Jeni]

Roseate glad you like the results!

[Themyst]

I cant give an opinion on the alma darkening (I have added alma to my mix, didnt notice any darkening) or sage/vinegar reducing brassiness (never heard of this but that doesn't mean it isnt true). I have never added any lemon to my mix (100% cassia or henna/cassia), I don't see the purpose. I don't add ginger either (I hate the smell) but I know other people have and I believe it helped with the rotten hay/grass/spinach/hops smell.

I order my cassia from herbco.com. Go to "bulk spices" and look for "senna". It is not exactly the same stuff as on H4H, its a slightly different plant, but it works the same (it was talked about earlier on the thread). I have used both and find the stuff from herbco.com to work the same. Its also cheaper (~$3/lb, though shipping is kind of high so if you need any teas/spices/oils get them). The only thing I have found that is different witht he stuff from herbco is that it is not as finely ground but that does not effect anything.

I have found my hair seems to be generally easier to deal with a few days after I do a mud. My hair tangles if you even think about looking at it but cassia (even better now that I have added henna) does seem to lesson the tangles and make my hair feel stronger so detangling is easier.

Good luck, hope it works out for you. I find my hair feels pretty funky when I rinse, SMT/deep conditioner seems to help. I also have added EVOO, coconut oil, honey, conditioner and fenugreek (also from herbco), to help with moisturizing and ease of rinsing, seems to help.

May I ask how much alma you added to your cassia when you tried it? I know you said there was no color change, I'm wondering if it was because of the amount used or because your hair is much lighter than mine anyway.

[ljkforu]

I've decided to go for it! Would an experienced member here please look at my plan to see if it sounds right?

I want to use Cassia to strengthen and gloss my hair. My current hair color is:

http://www.thecrazylanes.com/hairtexture.jpg

So I don't expect the Cassia to have any coloring effect. However, I would like to go a little darker, so I thought I'd add some alma. I also read that if I add sage and cider vinegar it would tone down any kind of brassiness that may occur. I'm trying to avoid lemon because I don't want to risk any drying. Also, I might add some ginger to cut down on the smell.
Does this sound right?

I was looking to order my supplies at hennaforhair.com but that website is not very user friendly and it jumps to different websites (mehandi.com/paypal.com). I don't like that - are there other merchants that sell quality cassia that anyone could recommend? I have no health food stores near me.

One other question - has anyone noticed hair is easier to comb out several days after a cassia treatment? Just curious about any detangling effects it may have.

Thank you for any advice! I've been reading up on this for a couple of weeks now. I am so excited about trying this.:)
Just FYI -- I've never had any problems with ordering or getting my order from Henna for Hair. For some reason the site is broken up into usages because she sells so many products. Mehndi is for skin, Henna for hair, Indigo for skin, etc...

Paypal is just the safe 2nd party payment option that many websites use, it is so the vendor never actually sees your credit card.

[Themyst]

Just FYI -- I've never had any problems with ordering or getting my order from Henna for Hair. For some reason the site is broken up into usages because she sells so many products. Mehndi is for skin, Henna for hair, Indigo for skin, etc...

Paypal is just the safe 2nd party payment option that many websites use, it is so the vendor never actually sees your credit card.

Thanks for the reassurance. Ordinarily I would probably go through with it, but just a few months ago my brother convinced me to purchase something for him on a site (that wasn't very web 2.0) he usually ordered from. I did, and someone got my info through that company. I know this because everything they ordered with my CC was my CC number and address, but with my brother's name. Super sleuth, here!:eyebrows:

Now I am just so much more careful. It's probably unwarranted in this case, but I would feel so foolish going to my bank and explaining that it happened to me ... again.:(

[Themyst]

Has anyone from the USA ordered from Henna Sooq? I know her admin is located in Canada, but she claims to have a USA based store also.

So I cannot figure out if I am an international customer or not. I'm in Maine. Would she ship USA orders from her USA satellite office? Do international shipping charges apply to me? :confused:

I read her shipping terms and maybe I'm just really tired or something but I don't get it. I'm just trying to get this order finished tonight and I'm just assuming she doesn't answer business emails on a Saturday night.

[Jeni]

Themyst I don't remember how much I added, I have a tendency to just kind of dump stuff in. It wasn't a ton, maybe 1-2tb to a cup of cassia? If alma does darken I would think not a ton since it would have been noticeable on my blond hair (I'd think). If you did like 2pt cassia to 1 pt alma that might affect color. I honestly haven't a clue though, couldn't hurt to try it right? Alma is suppose to be good for the hair.

As for H4H, I have never had an issue with them (I use paypal a TON), I order from herbco because it is much cheaper (never had an issue with them either).

[Jeni]

Isn't she a member here? You could try and PM her maybe she would check it?? What is the check out like. Could you put stuff in the basket and then go through checkout and see what shipping it gives you? You should be able to see the shipping amount before you hit the final "send payment" button. Sorry cant help more, I have never ordered from them.

[Themyst]

Isn't she a member here? You could try and PM her maybe she would check it?? What is the check out like. Could you put stuff in the basket and then go through checkout and see what shipping it gives you? You should be able to see the shipping amount before you hit the final "send payment" button. Sorry cant help more, I have never ordered from them.

Thanks - apparently, she is a member but she is not currently online.

This is what is on her site:

"All international customers must add their international shipping rates to their order before completing the transaction. (We incur additional fees for every paypal transaction which we would like to avoid). You can do this by either contacting us beforehand and getting your invoice, or you can use the following information to adjust your shipping rate."

So it doesn't look automatic to me. I can't figure out if I'm an international customer or not. She states she has a business over here in the USA but I don't know where she ships from.

Oh well. Thanks for your help on the additives anyway. If I ever get this done, I'll be sure to post before & after pictures. :)

EDIT: No, I was not charged an international shipping rate!

[Jeni]

Hum, well sorry I cant help you. Try starting a thread asking about the shipping. You should get more feed back that way.

[Curlsgirl]

I am so tired of highlighting and chemical coloring trying to cover my grays. I really don't have that many I don't think but mostly in the top of my hair. What kind of cassia mix should I use to color my grays a pretty golden color? I have mostly light brown hair with highlights in the length (starting about 2 inches from the roots). I have read much of this thread. I am just confused as to what to try first. :confused:

I do not want red in my hair is why I am not doing henna and I do not want it any darker than I have to have it. I do not look good in darker or reddish hair. Gold tones are fine for me. I would ideally like something just to color the grays and leave the rest alone (or lighten it not darken if possible)

I would appreciate any help anyone can give me!!! TIA!!!!

[Curlsgirl]

Anybody???

Anyway, I just ordered some cassia, just 300 mg. of it for one application. I wasn't sure how much it would take since I have 30 inch thick hair.

[Themyst]

I'm no expert here as a matter-of-fact, I'm just a newbie at this.

I haven't used cassia yet but want to and so I've read up extensively about it.

If your hair is as light as it looks in your avatar, I'm thinking that you might see a color difference in your entire hair, not just your grays.

That's what I think I remember reading - that the cassia will usually only affect those with gray or white/light blond hair.

Since your hair is so light, I bet if you posted your before/after results on here it would prove to be a valuable resource to others who are wondering what cassia exactly does for lighter hair. :)

Edit: I just re-read your post and you say you have light brown hair. It must be different than your avatar pic then. Everything I've read seems to indicate that cassia will not affect brown hair (light or dark) but you may see some yellowing of your greys.

[Roseate]

I do not want red in my hair is why I am not doing henna and I do not want it any darker than I have to have it. I do not look good in darker or reddish hair. Gold tones are fine for me. I would ideally like something just to color the grays and leave the rest alone (or lighten it not darken if possible)

Your hair does look very light in your avatar photo- if that's accurate I agree with TheMyst , you might see an overall color change. Did you see the swatch of strand tests (http://www.mehandi.com/shop/cassiaobovatabuy.html) on Mehandi.com? It's towards the bottom of that page. My hair definitely did pick up a gold cast, but it is much darker than yours so I can't say about the darkening.

I'd do a strand test yourself to make sure the gold's not too dark/too warm for you before taking the plunge.

[Curlsgirl]

What you see in my avatar is my old highlights (and it definitely is not as light as it appears there either now). My natural color (and all underneath) is a light/medium brown with grays mixed in. I am wanting to put a gold cast to the grays. That is really all I want to do, not really change the brown or blonde parts. I am hoping I can get away from chemical color this way. I really don't have too much gray except right on top. I will absolutely do a strand test on the brown parts not sure if I can get a strand test on the grays. I will post before/after also.

Anyone know what a good recipe would be for me for what I want to do? Should I Just mix it with chamomile tea or add something else along with it?

[Themyst]

I think chamomile tea is used for a little 'brightening'.

I hope you can do a strand test on any blond highlights you might have left - that's the area I'd worry about a color change in most, minimal as it may be. At least it wouldn't be permanent.

I left a message with some ordering questions for a cassia merchant this morning but haven't heard back yet. I wish I could just order some and be done with it. Then I'd at least have some experience in this matter.

[Demetrue]

I made catnip tea and used that to mix the cassia and some chamomile together. At this point, my grays definitely looks golden. I am waiting to let more of the gray grow out to see if I can use the catnip/cassia mix to keep a golden color.

[Curlsgirl]

I made catnip tea and used that to mix the cassia and some chamomile together. At this point, my grays definitely looks golden. I am waiting to let more of the gray grow out to see if I can use the catnip/cassia mix to keep a golden color.What color is your hair besides the gray?

[MandaMom2Three]

I have some cassia mixed up right now :) I'm doing sort of a cross between cassia and an SMT, I got the idea from a post a few pages back now. I mixed 2 T of cassia with some chamomile tea, it's sitting right now. I also mixed about 3 tbsp cone free conditioner, 1 1/2 tbsp jojoba oil and 2 drops rosemary oil. in 20 minutes I'll combine the two and apply. I'll leave it on probably an hour then rinse, as I'm not waiting for any colour (especially with my henna my hair's quite dark). I'm excited to see the results. I clarified today and my hair always needs a deep conditioning after shampooing.

[Jeni]

Mixes- There is a lot of stuff people put into their cassia mixes. I have never used any kind of teas but I know many do use chamomile and like it. I'm weary of tea ever since I did a test with some organic black tea which turned red...That and I don't have any chamomile. For your first cassia I would suggest you do a pretty plain mix. Just add some water or tea and apply. Your hair may like this just fine. If you want to play around more I have added: conditioner (both cone and non-cone), EVOO, coconut oil, honey and fenugreek. All of these were added in an attempt to combat the drying effects of cassia and make rinsing easier. Fenugreek seems to help the most (also stretches the mix).

[MandaMom2Three]

WOW am I ever glad I tried henna before trying cassia!!!! If this had been my first experience I think I would have run screaming!!! I expected with all the conditioner and oil I added it would be real smooth applying it, HA! Instead I find myself applying what seemed to be a combination of mud and sandpaper!! I hope I got it all in there, it matted up like nobodies business!!! I WAS planning on just rinsing in the sink, I figured with all the additives it would rinse out easier, HA! No way is that going to work, I'll be swimmin' like a mermaid in a little while :D . Even though the cassia seemed as fine as the henna it's so gritty!!! And it doesn't hold liquid at all, I had to remix the goop several times because it kept separating! I had NO trouble with dribbles when I hennaed, but I have to keep a towel TIGHT around my neck and wipe up dribbles almost every 30 seconds!!! Wow, I'd better be blown away by the results :p . I'll rinse out and then do an SMT right away. I'll keep the saga posted as events unfold LOL

[Jeni]

uh, yea, the first rinsing sucks. I had a mini panic attack the first time I tried to rinse out cassia. My hair was a giant dread lock covered in gritty mud, I was sure I was going to have to shave it all off! Some people like the mermaid soaks, I'm not one of them (I hate sitting in the bath, something about my butt touching the tub? Yes, I am a freak). I just stand in the shower with the spray setting turned onto like "power wash" and slowly rinse it out. I go through a ton of conditioner (the cone-y er the better). I have shampoo my scalp to get all the mud off and then condition again. From start to finish (including regular shower duties and letting the conditioner sit in the hair) takes about 20-25 mins. Not bad considering my normal shower takes 15min.

Hopefully you will like the results, give it a few days my hair, especially the ends, are a little funky for awhile.

Wonder why you had a lot of drips? Did you apply it to wet hair? I have never had an issue but I apply to dry hair and the fenugreek seems to help it stay pretty firm.

[Demetrue]

What color is your hair besides the gray?
Well, I have not seen it in 30 years, but from the color of the roots, it looks like it has darkened to very dark blonde - hair-colored-hair, kind of non-color - gunmetal gray. I'll find out in about 2 weeks. I'm not looking forward to that line of demarcation, but I figure that after a while, people will begin to realize it's deliberate and not because I'm too lazy to color my roots.

[MandaMom2Three]

I applied it to wet hair, that's probably why. Actually, as much as I dreaded it, rinsing out was easier than henna!! I guess the conditioner and oil helped after all! I did a mermaid soak, but it didn't take long to feel like it was already mostly out! I rinsed in the slower and COed as usual (only doing it twice to be sure) and it feels like it's completely out! I have a modified version of an SMT on my head right now (I was out of AVG and my hair doesn't like honey so it's 3MM and jojoba oil) and I'll rinse that out in a few minutes.

[Roseate]

What you see in my avatar is my old highlights (and it definitely is not as light as it appears there either now). My natural color (and all underneath) is a light/medium brown with grays mixed in.

Light/medium brown would probably go great with cassia. I'm on the dark blonde side, and it worked well.


Anyone know what a good recipe would be for me for what I want to do? Should I Just mix it with chamomile tea or add something else along with it?


I think, if you're trying to dye the grays, you have to be sure to add a little acid to release the dye, and let the cassia sit with the acid for a few hours for the same reason.

I sort of fudged it a bit on my mix; I used a splash of ACV with the tea for a little dye release but I really didn't let it sit very long, and it still did give a definite gold highlight to the lightest parts of my hair. I think gray hair is supposed to be more stubborn to accept dye though, it might need more concerted effort.

[MandaMom2Three]

WOAH! Ok this is cool. I did NOT expect any colour change at all but now the little whispies at the sides of my face are strawberry blonde!!!!! How cute!

[Curlsgirl]

WOAH! Ok this is cool. I did NOT expect any colour change at all but now the little whispies at the sides of my face are strawberry blonde!!!!! How cute!Awwwwww! How long did you leave it on?

[MandaMom2Three]

Only half an hour! But my hair seems to stuck in a rift in the time space continuum. My hair seems to respond to things much quicker than normal. I don't think it's the average to see that much change in that short a time.

[Tapioca]

What helps me with the drippies is to do a quick towel-dry before applying. Shampoo, rinse, squeeze water out, squeeze with a towel, then pile on the mud. I like applying to clean, clarified hair, but I don't want it too wet.

[Curlsgirl]

I am excited about the cassia that I ordered. I think I will wait for about a half inch of gray/brown to come in and then do it.

Anyone think I will need more than 300 grams? That's what I ordered.

[Henna Sooq]

I hope you like the casia obovata, Curlsgirl!

Is your avatar pic of you the most recent pic? If so, I think it's great you ordered a bit extra just in case. Cassia obovata can be frozen if any paste is leftover and used next time. So there is no wastage there.

I think depending on your thickness, but from your avatar pic it looks like you may use about 200 grams of cassia for your application. This is according to a medium/average thickness of hair, in my opinion.

[Themyst]

I also ordered some cassia, 400 grams. I read that for my length, this is recommended, but most users say they use MUCH LESS than what is recommended. I plan on mixing it with some buxus (for a little darker color), amla, and fenugreek. Maybe chamomile tea.

I'll be trying it on my 8 year old DD but minus the buxus and amla (she has waist length blonde hair - I don't want to mess with her color).

I am also excited!

[Henna Sooq]

I've also done the cassia on my daughter. It gave her blond tones a really nice bounce. But the color in general is growing out and becoming darker every year.

Yes you see it depends on which site/supplier you are at, as they may have varying recommendations on what you should use. and you are right the general population doesn't even use as much. Well at least we all know we can freeze it and still use it all up in the end.