Questions that don't deserve their own thread

[Dark40]

Hey, this might be a stupid question as well: Can dyeing your hair cause it to straighten your texture a bit?

Because, I remember on my friend's hair she was dyeing it dark brown she told me that she naturally has curly hair, and everyday I saw her....her hair appeared or looked a little straighter to me.

[Begemot]

Hey, this might be a stupid question as well: Can dyeing your hair cause it to straighten your texture a bit?

Because, I remember on my friend's hair she was dyeing it dark brown she told me that she naturally has curly hair, and everyday I saw her....her hair appeared or looked a little straighter to me.

Yes, definitely. Permanent dyes open the cuticle layer causing damage and dryness, so natural texture might change because of that (waves and curls loosen up and can't the natural texture as well). I guess it's quite individual thing though and also depends on how drastic the color change is.

[MusicalSpoons]

Alright, so here's a stupid question: Are my roots a soft black now?

I have been watching my growth come in and am still not over how much darker it looks than what I had remembered.

I took a selfie today (new avatar) where the color seems true to life and I'm shocked at how blackish it looks in it.

On my screen I'd say a very very dark brown. I don't know where the line is between very dark brown and black though! :lol:

[jane_marie]

From my view (I’m on an iPhone if that makes a difference) it looks like your roots are a cool dark brown and the rest is a warm brown.

It’s kind of fun discovering natural color after only seeing dyed color for awhile! :eye:


On my screen I'd say a very very dark brown. I don't know where the line is between very dark brown and black though! :lol:

Okay, thanks!

It's super weird I could have swore my hair was a medium warm brown not a cool super dark brown. I wonder if maybe it photobleached a bit auburn and it hasn't had time to do that yet.

[zashin66]

Take a picture in sunlight. Might have pretty highlights. There was a hint of auburn there

[Chromis]

For headphones and bike helmets I find easiest way to take off and on a lot without making so much frizz is to wear a bandana, Buff, some kind of kerchief.

We have big muff-style headphones for chainsawing and tractor work and other loud power machinery (worksafe ones where you can listen to music) and have to pop them off and on or at least move an ear now and then if we want to hear each other between tasks. Keeps my hair cleaner too, fewer tree bits and less sawdust and dirt.

[Dark40]

Yes, definitely. Permanent dyes open the cuticle layer causing damage and dryness, so natural texture might change because of that (waves and curls loosen up and can't the natural texture as well). I guess it's quite individual thing though and also depends on how drastic the color change is.

OK, thank you for answering that question for me. I thought that could be the case. Wasn't sure. Yes, that is so very true that Permanent dyes open the cuticle layer causing damage and dryness. That's why if you're going to do such a thing to your hair you should always keep it well-moisturized, and it's always good to do protein treatments every once in a while. That is also very true that it's quite an individual thing and it also depends on how drastic the color change is. I was thinking more like permanently dyeing my hair reddish blonde or pale blonde without using bleach. I don't use bleach. Only the blonde shade. Like, Clairol Nice N Easy. Or, Loreal Preference. The only product from Clairol that has bleach it their bleaching kits and lighteners. But, the blonde shades doesn't contain any bleach in it.

[lapushka]

I wanted to check in and say that my flax seed gel, and molasses SMT worked wonderfully!



I'm done with dying so hopefully things are all uphill for here. :)

Glad it worked & awesome! :thumbsup:


Alright, so here's a stupid question: Are my roots a soft black now?

I have been watching my growth come in and am still not over how much darker it looks than what I had remembered.

I took a selfie today (new avatar) where the color seems true to life and I'm shocked at how blackish it looks in it.

I don't know; looks like a soft dark brown to me. Black (my dad's hair is black) is harsher, and more "ashy" somehow.

[Bri-Chan]

Alright, so here's a stupid question: Are my roots a soft black now?

I have been watching my growth come in and am still not over how much darker it looks than what I had remembered.

I took a selfie today (new avatar) where the color seems true to life and I'm shocked at how blackish it looks in it.

To me, in the avatar your hair seems dark brown but not like a soft black. I do have experience with both - dark brown hair is very common where I live, and I used to see a lot of asian hair at uni. Yes, a cool brown, as other says. I also think that the dark color you have can be more evident because of the contrast with the lighter color.

[Dark40]

Hey all,

Would you say if you relax your hair, and then use permanent dye afterwards the color will take better than it would if you didn't relax it? Or, would the color take better if you don't relax it?

[Ylva]

Hey all,

Would you say if you relax your hair, and then use permanent dye afterwards the color will take better than it would if you didn't relax it? Or, would the color take better if you don't relax it?

Chemically treated hair will always be more porous than natural hair, so while you might experience that the colour gets deposited more easily and initially looks richer, it will also come out more easily due to the increased porosity.

[jane_marie]

Hey all,

Would you say if you relax your hair, and then use permanent dye afterwards the color will take better than it would if you didn't relax it? Or, would the color take better if you don't relax it?

No, don't do that. It runs a high risk of damaging your hair.

[cestlavie]

Hey all,

Would you say if you relax your hair, and then use permanent dye afterwards the color will take better than it would if you didn't relax it? Or, would the color take better if you don't relax it?

I wouldn't combine these two. Chances are that you're going to damage your hair beyond repair. Porous hair takes up dye easily but it will fade quickly too.

[Dark40]

Chemically treated hair will always be more porous than natural hair, so while you might experience that the colour gets deposited more easily and initially looks richer, it will also come out more easily due to the increased porosity.

Ok..Yes, that's true that chemically treated hair will always be more porous than natural hair. I have just learned that as I am transitioning from relaxed to natural, and I've also learned that when I was both relaxing and coloring, the color did look richer, and came out more easily due to the increased porosity.


No, don't do that. It runs a high risk of damaging your hair.

Yes, you are so very right. I could damage it if I do it. I will just color instead of relaxing.


I wouldn't combine these two. Chances are that you're going to damage your hair beyond repair. Porous hair takes up dye easily but it will fade quickly too.

That's is so very true. I'm not going to combine those these two together. I will just color instead. Ok, thank you all for your responses! That's really good advice.

[Dark40]

Hey, I've got another question: If your hair sheds more than normal and your scalp itches on the 7th day. Or, after a week from a hair wash. Is it okay to wash your hair more frequently? Because, I've noticed that when I wash my hair 3 times a week. Or, everyday I have less shedding and itching.

[Jane99]

Everyone’s scalp is different! I think an itchy scalp is a good indicator that it’s time to wash. I could not go 7 days without washing, maybe some day but not now.

[Dark40]

Yes, you are very right! I agree that an itchy scalp is a good indicator that it's time to wash. I also couldn't go 7 days without washing either. Yeah, I know what you mean about maybe someday but not now.

[Bri-Chan]

How can I understand if I'm having just seasonal shedding or telogen effluvium?

[leayellena]

How can I understand if I'm having just seasonal shedding or telogen effluvium?

measure your ponytail circumference.
I measure my ponytail circ. in situations like:
- humidity: it makes my hair silky, fine and compressible
- summer: usually when my ponytail circ. can reach up to 9 cm.
- when your hair is freshly washed and dry

[Bri-Chan]

measure your ponytail circumference.
I measure my ponytail circ. in situations like:
- humidity: it makes my hair silky, fine and compressible
- summer: usually when my ponytail circ. can reach up to 9 cm.
- when your hair is freshly washed and dry

Oh, I'm doing it. I've lost ~0,4 inches in two months. But I don't know how much is too much.
Side note, I shed just few strands per day in normal conditions. Now it's like 3 times that. But I have a lot of new hair long 3 to 4 inches, which are too short to fit into a ponytail.

[Ylva]

How can I understand if I'm having just seasonal shedding or telogen effluvium?

I don't think there's a surefire way to know, but if you look 2-6 months into the past, is there something that could have triggered telogen effluvium, like a stressful event or a shock (physical or emotional)?

[Bri-Chan]

I don't think there's a surefire way to know, but if you look 2-6 months into the past, is there something that could have triggered telogen effluvium, like a stressful event or a shock (physical or emotional)?

Mh the only thing I had was an infection back in January, with 2 weeks of antibiotics. Other than that, stress basically. But I'm often stressed.

[Milynn]

As it is September, I would bet seasonal shedding.

I have also been wondering this as I have been shedding more lately - could be stress, yet still betting seasonal with my own case too.

If I remember correctly, TE is usually somewhat massive and as such more recognizable? And seasonal just "some" more? Meaning, I would suspect TE if my shedding would increase from 40 to 200 strands, and seasonal if the increase would be something like from 40 to 100 (percentage gap the main point here, not the actual numbers).

[Bri-Chan]

Milynn I hope is seasonal shedding obviously, but it's lasting since the end of July and it seems to be worst in the last month. I unfortunately have never counted the hair I used to shed before, so I cannot do a comparison. I just have my eyes. But I have a pic of it. I'll take with the shed I have now in the same conditions.

[Dark40]

Hi,

I have a question. Can you use shampoos and conditioners that has protein in it on a daily basis. Like, anything that says, "Repair&Protect?"

[Bri-Chan]

Hi,

I have a question. Can you use shampoos and conditioners that has protein in it on a daily basis. Like, anything that says, "Repair&Protect?"

I think this is something very subjective. And I think it depends also by the quantity of protein your products contain. You should just try for few washes and see what happens.


I definitely don't know how to deal with my hair from day 4. Because it looks frizzy, from roots to ends. Sometimes happens that my day 4 waves looks better than day 1 in terms of definition, but with this insane amount of frizz and some straight strand coming out. A mess. Also my usual side braid can't contain the frizz and I need to use tones of leave in conditioner and oil to make it looks not too bad.
Should I try some refresh method? There's something I can do to tame the frizz?

[Dark40]

I think this is something very subjective. And I think it depends also by the quantity of protein your products contain. You should just try for few washes and see what happens.


I definitely don't know how to deal with my hair from day 4. Because it looks frizzy, from roots to ends. Sometimes happens that my day 4 waves looks better than day 1 in terms of definition, but with this insane amount of frizz and some straight strand coming out. A mess. Also my usual side braid can't contain the frizz and I need to use tones of leave in conditioner and oil to make it looks not too bad.
Should I try some refresh method? There's something I can do to tame the frizz?

Ok, yeah I may just try for a few washes and see what happens. Because, I really don't like switching my products too often. I was thinking more like trying to use the Pantene Repair&Protect Shampoo and Conditioner everyday, and see what happens from there.

Awwwww yeah, I know what you mean about dealing with frizziness on day 4. I deal with it all of the time starting from day 1. The day I wash it! Yes, I would try a refreshing method like a hair milk or a hair cream. That's what helps to tame away my frizzies.

[ynne]

I definitely don't know how to deal with my hair from day 4. Because it looks frizzy, from roots to ends. Sometimes happens that my day 4 waves looks better than day 1 in terms of definition, but with this insane amount of frizz and some straight strand coming out. A mess. Also my usual side braid can't contain the frizz and I need to use tones of leave in conditioner and oil to make it looks not too bad.
Should I try some refresh method? There's something I can do to tame the frizz?

For me, the only way to "refresh" my hair in that stage is to basically wash it again, just water and a ton of conditioner; but some people have success with misting their hair with water & conditioner, have you tried that? Other than that, I'll be waiting for others to chime in because I'd love some solution as well!

[Dark40]

I agree with, ynne. Misting your hair with water & conditioner also helps me to take my frizz as well!

[Ylva]

Why do I use less conditioner washing my hair upside down than normally?

[lapis_lazuli]

Why do I use less conditioner washing my hair upside down than normally?

I don't know but I'm tempted to try that!

[Ylva]

I don't know but I'm tempted to try that!

I know a lot of people prefer that method but I can't recommend it myself! It's such a pain to rearrange the hair to sit normally again after you flip it back around. Even my virgin roots act tangled at that point! The wash process itself is a good workout for my buttocks, though, it seems. (How unfit must I be? :D)

[Bri-Chan]

For me, the only way to "refresh" my hair in that stage is to basically wash it again, just water and a ton of conditioner; but some people have success with misting their hair with water & conditioner, have you tried that? Other than that, I'll be waiting for others to chime in because I'd love some solution as well!


I agree with, ynne. Misting your hair with water & conditioner also helps me to take my frizz as well!
I haven't tried water and conditioner together. I tried conditioner, oil and coney serum. I'll try this next tie, hope it helps.


Why do I use less conditioner washing my hair upside down than normally?
I don't know but I am the same.

[jane_marie]

I have hard water and I have been noticing lately that my hair is tangling a lot, feels pretty dry on the ends, is a little tacky, and my scalp is mildly itchy. Is this likely mineral build up?

I stopped using sulfates about 6 months ago and this change started about a week or two ago.

If it is build up will an ACV rinse help?

[Ylva]

I have hard water and I have been noticing lately that my hair is tangling a lot, feels pretty dry on the ends, is a little tacky, and my scalp is mildly itchy. Is this likely mineral build up?

I stopped using sulfates about 6 months ago and this change started about a week or two ago.

If it is build up will an ACV rinse help?

Maybe chelate first and then try and maintain the results of that with ACV rinses?

[jane_marie]

Maybe chelate first and then try and maintain the results of that with ACV rinses?

hmmm... Is there sulfate free chelating shampoo?

ETA: I have picked up a couple sulfate free clarifying shampoos but have yet to find one that doesn't add more build up. :neutral:

[Ylva]

hmmm... Is there sulfate free chelating shampoo?

ETA: I have picked up a couple sulfate free clarifying shampoos but have yet to find one that doesn't add more build up. :neutral:

I think I recall seeing something with olefin sulfonate and an EDTA, but olefin sulfonate is super harsh despite not being a sulfate per se. I can't for the life of me remember what brand it was, though. Maybe this one sulfate wash would be worth it anyway?

[jane_marie]

I think I recall seeing something with olefin sulfonate and an EDTA, but olefin sulfonate is super harsh despite not being a sulfate per se. I can't for the life of me remember what brand it was, though. Maybe this one sulfate wash would be worth it anyway?

Yeah, maybe. Part of the issue is that I don't have a chelating shampoo around around and they seem to be a bit expensive... plus I have a soy allergy so figuring out products can be a bit hassle if I'm only going to use something once every 5 months.

Do you think it would be completely bonkers just to mix a bit of vitamin C powder into my shampoo? It looks like a lot of chelating shampoos use vitamin C.

[Ylva]

Yeah, maybe. Part of the issue is that I don't have a chelating shampoo around around and they seem to be a bit expensive... plus I have a soy allergy so figuring out products can be a bit hassle if I'm only going to use something once every 5 months.

Do you think it would be completely bonkers just to mix a bit of vitamin C powder into my shampoo? It looks like a lot of chelating shampoos use vitamin C.

My understanding is that EDTA is the only proper chelator. Also, when it comes to excess iron or metal in the body, I've never heard of using vitamin C to help with that. My guess is that it would only help with prevention. I did, however, find the following information:

"Numerous biomolecules exhibit the ability to dissolve certain metal cations. Thus, proteins, polysaccharides, and polynucleic acids are excellent polydentate ligands for many metal ions. Organic compounds such as the amino acids glutamic acid and histidine, organic diacids such as malate, and polypeptides such as phytochelatin are also typical chelators."

[jane_marie]

hmm... Well, I guess I'm not doing well looking for chelating shampoo. It's sort of odd the only place I have ever seen chelating shampoo was at the salon. I don't think it's a regular product here in the US. I see clarifying shampoo but never chelating.

I can get it from some beauty supply places but everything is over 50 USD... so.. I don't know. I have a feeling I'm not going to be able to afford a soy free version anyway. It seems like most soy-free beauty products are twice as much and I can't spend that much on shampoo.

ugh... and now I feel like I'm having a panic attack because I'm either going to completely dry my hair off and have little bits break off from using something too drying or I'm going to have to live with my hair feeling tacky and itchy for forever. What the heck is wrong with me?

[Ylva]

hmm... Well, I guess I'm not doing well looking for chelating shampoo. It's sort of odd the only place I have ever seen chelating shampoo was at the salon. I don't think it's a regular product here in the US. I see clarifying shampoo but never chelating.

I can get it from some beauty supply places but everything is over 50 USD... so.. I don't know. I have a feeling I'm not going to be able to afford a soy free version anyway. It seems like most soy-free beauty products are twice as much and I can't spend that much on shampoo.

ugh... and now I feel like I'm having a panic attack because I'm either going to completely dry my hair off and have little bits break off from using something too drying or I'm going to have to live with my hair feeling tacky and itchy for forever. What the heck is wrong with me?

My experience is that a lot of shampoos that function as chelating shampoos aren't advertised as such. For example, a lot of Herbal Essences shampoos contain EDTA. I have a few of them in my stash to be used as chelators. I don't know if they are exactly as efficient as a proper swimmer's shampoo, so it might take more than one wash, but I'm sure they do something at least!

[florenonite]

hmm... Well, I guess I'm not doing well looking for chelating shampoo. It's sort of odd the only place I have ever seen chelating shampoo was at the salon. I don't think it's a regular product here in the US. I see clarifying shampoo but never chelating.

I can get it from some beauty supply places but everything is over 50 USD... so.. I don't know. I have a feeling I'm not going to be able to afford a soy free version anyway. It seems like most soy-free beauty products are twice as much and I can't spend that much on shampoo.

ugh... and now I feel like I'm having a panic attack because I'm either going to completely dry my hair off and have little bits break off from using something too drying or I'm going to have to live with my hair feeling tacky and itchy for forever. What the heck is wrong with me?

Can you find a swimmer's shampoo? Those tend to have chelating ingredients, though I don't know how to go about making sure it's soy-free.

For maintenance, I find Nightblooming's alluvial (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/600148600/alluvial-chelating-crystal-rinse-255g) works really well, but with really hard water I don't think it's enough to remove buildup.

[jane_marie]

My experience is that a lot of shampoos that function as chelating shampoos aren't advertised as such. For example, a lot of Herbal Essences shampoos contain EDTA.... [B]

I'll look to see if I can find something with EDTA that is a bit more within my price range. Also, thank you for mentioning swimmers shampoo. I have seen many of those over the years.

I feel better now. Thank you so much Ylva. :blossom:

edit:
Can you find a swimmer's shampoo? Those tend to have chelating ingredients, though I don't know how to go about making sure it's soy-free.

For maintenance, I find Nightblooming's alluvial (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/600148600/alluvial-chelating-crystal-rinse-255g) works really well, but with really hard water I don't think it's enough to remove buildup.


Sorry I didn't see your response! I'm looking into swimmer's shampoo now and think I might be able to find something... though I am allergic to a common fragrance additive as well which makes things silly. :lol:

[Ylva]

I'll look to see if I can find something with EDTA that is a bit more within my price range. Also, thank you for mentioning swimmers shampoo. I have seen many of those over the years.

I feel better now. Thank you so much Ylva. :blossom:

I'm glad! :) I'm sure you'll find something affordable. I saw that a lot of Pantene shampoos also contain EDTA. There should be plenty of options among drugstore products.

[knobbly]

Just use some citric acid powder as a rinse, if you have it around jane_marie. Make up a solution (I’m not sure off the top of my head what a proper one would be but you know how to use the internet. It’s not much, like a 1/4 teaspoon in a quart or more of water) and fully saturate clean hair a few times, perhaps using a bowl to catch the rinse water and then repouring it over your head, concentrating on ends. Leave it on for 10 minutes and then rinse with clean water and condition as usual.

[MusicalSpoons]

Science-y Hair Blog will have helpful pages about this. Citric acid and vinegar are chelating agents but I can't think of the science off the top of my head. You will have to check the pH though, and I think that's why EDTA is used in commercial products more than (or alongside) citric acid.

[knobbly]

Love Science-y Hair Blog. Wendy is a smarty pants.

[Chromis]

I find citric acid works well to remove mineral build up. Vinegar is better just at preventing it. When I lived in ultra hard water areas I prefer to combine the two and used this after every wash. Citric acid is pretty easy to find around here, but you can also order it on Amazon or the like to and it is cheapo.

[jane_marie]

I find citric acid works well to remove mineral build up. Vinegar is better just at preventing it. When I lived in ultra hard water areas I prefer to combine the two and used this after every wash. Citric acid is pretty easy to find around here, but you can also order it on Amazon or the like to and it is cheapo.


Science-y Hair Blog will have helpful pages about this. Citric acid and vinegar are chelating agents but I can't think of the science off the top of my head. You will have to check the pH though, and I think that's why EDTA is used in commercial products more than (or alongside) citric acid.


Just use some citric acid powder as a rinse, if you have it around jane_marie. Make up a solution (I’m not sure off the top of my head what a proper one would be but you know how to use the internet. It’s not much, like a 1/4 teaspoon in a quart or more of water) and fully saturate clean hair a few times, perhaps using a bowl to catch the rinse water and then repouring it over your head, concentrating on ends. Leave it on for 10 minutes and then rinse with clean water and condition as usual.

Oh my these answers are such a relief. I really didn't want to go through the trouble and research of finding myself a new commercial beauty product. It can be such a pain when you have allergies to things that are commonly used in beauty products.

Thanks to everyone that helped out!

[ynne]

For me, ACV rinse isn't enough so I only use them to maintain the effect, but a (just as dilluted!) ACV soak for, say, 15 minutes before washing does wonders. :) But I'd try short time & very small amount first, see if it feels any better, repeat as necessary.

I use a similar method as knobbly described! Except with ACV instead of citric acid. I find it very gentle on my hair, it feels significantly softer and lighter after. With citric acid I'd probably worry about it being drying, but perhaps if you dilute it enough, I don't know. But my hair is very dry naturally, so I have to be careful with that, while ACV is used instead of a conditioner by some people.

[lapushka]

I'll look to see if I can find something with EDTA that is a bit more within my price range. Also, thank you for mentioning swimmers shampoo. I have seen many of those over the years.

I feel better now. Thank you so much Ylva. :blossom:

I may be late (too late) to the party, but maybe check the ingredients on the Pantene volumizing shampoo, Aqua Light is *superb* but may be hard to come by (depending on the country). I used to have Herbal Essences Dazzling Shine and that was also a good one.

As long as it is for "oily" scalp and for "volumizing", it will come as close to a clarifier as you can get.

Now I haven't followed the entire discussion, so sorry if I'm off here, but EDTA usually means stripping, and those things really are!

[MusicalSpoons]

I forgot to say jane_marie I think your idea of adding to shampoo - measuring the pH, so add in slowly! - would be good to try.

[knobbly]

I forgot to say jane_marie I think your idea of adding to shampoo - measuring the pH, so add in slowly! - would be good to try.

The only caveat I’d give with this is that pH strips are meant for liquids, so if your shampoo is thicker than water (most are obviously) results might be skewed. Maybe dilute the shampoo and then add your acid, then test? I like to use diluted shampoo on dry hair, personally.

[Lainey]

Hi. I’ve been growing out from a pixie since April and now want to cut my mullet, probably almost up to the hair on the nape of my neck. So it gives more of a blunt bob effect to my multi layered hair. I think it will be tricky to do myself but I would definitely prefer to. Any tips for getting a nice neat line? My aim is to get it mostly one length and grow down from there. Currently it’s a bit tatty when I wear it down. Thanks.

[Dark40]

Hi,

I have a question about, "Inversion Method." How many days in the month do you massage your scalp? Because, I've read somewhere that someone does the "Inversion Mehod," on a daily basis. Would it be any harm in massaging the scalp with or without oil with the ball of your fingers everyday?

[Bri-Chan]

Hi,

I have a question about, "Inversion Method." How many days in the month do you massage your scalp? Because, I've read somewhere that someone does the "Inversion Mehod," on a daily basis. Would it be any harm in massaging the scalp with or without oil with the ball of your fingers everyday?

I did the Inversion Method in the past. The rules are: for a week (4 min a day), then 3 weeks of break. Another week of massages, 3 weeks of break, another week of massages and then a break of 3 months. It should be done with an oil (coconut oil usually), but also without oil is accepted.
Massaging everyday, change from people to people. I know people who massage everyday, but I think that should be too much unless you have an easy going scalp.

[Lady Stardust]

Hi. I’ve been growing out from a pixie since April and now want to cut my mullet, probably almost up to the hair on the nape of my neck. So it gives more of a blunt bob effect to my multi layered hair. I think it will be tricky to do myself but I would definitely prefer to. Any tips for getting a nice neat line? My aim is to get it mostly one length and grow down from there. Currently it’s a bit tatty when I wear it down. Thanks.

I think it would be worth starting a thread to ask about this, to ensure the question is seen by people with experience of doing self trims on shorter hair.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

[Dark40]

I did the Inversion Method in the past. The rules are: for a week (4 min a day), then 3 weeks of break. Another week of massages, 3 weeks of break, another week of massages and then a break of 3 months. It should be done with an oil (coconut oil usually), but also without oil is accepted.
Massaging everyday, change from people to people. I know people who massage everyday, but I think that should be too much unless you have an easy going scalp.

I thought those were the rules. I usually do it (5 min a day) for a week, then take a break for 3 weeks. Or, for the rest of the month with just brushing. Yes, I've also learned that it should be done with oil. Well, I usually do it with any type of oil I can get my hands on but I also love doing it with coconut oil as well. Yes, I've also learned that doing it without oil is accepted as well too.

Massaging everyday...that is very true it changes from people to people. Hmm, I've never known anyone to massage everyday just brush everyday. That's cool that you know people that massages everyday. I am going to try doing it everyday, and if it gets to the point where it's too much then I will stop doing it.

[Lainey]

I think it would be worth starting a thread to ask about this, to ensure the question is seen by people with experience of doing self trims on shorter hair.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!
Thanks Lady Stardust...will do!

[jane_marie]

I wanted to drop in and thank everyone that advised me on the chelating issue!

I ended up using my shampoo diluted half and half with water then adding enough citric acid to get a 4.5 pH.

I shampooed with the mix and left it on for 5 minutes. I did the rest of my routine as normal but added ACV to my rose water rinse to get the pH to around 5.

My hair is dried and feels so much better now! It feels softer and is no longer tacky at all. My hair is even less frizzy and my waves clumped in bigger more defined sections.

So, again, thanks to all of you lovely folks that helped me out with ideas. :blossom:

ETA: Whelp. It felt great and then I went to braid it and realized that it feels stickier than ever.

I think the problem is just too much flax seed gel.

[blackgothicdoll]

Can aloe Vera gel be used as a leave in under a styling gel? I feel like it gives my hair moisture but it does nothing as far as hold is concerned. I'm just not sure if it's considered as moisturizing as a typical water-based leave in...

[jane_marie]

I wanted to drop in and thank everyone that advised me on the chelating issue!

I ended up using my shampoo diluted half and half with water then adding enough citric acid to get a 4.5 pH.

I shampooed with the mix and left it on for 5 minutes. I did the rest of my routine as normal but added ACV to my rose water rinse to get the pH to around 5.

My hair is dried and feels so much better now! It feels softer and is no longer tacky at all. My hair is even less frizzy and my waves clumped in bigger more defined sections.

So, again, thanks to all of you lovely folks that helped me out with ideas. :blossom:

ETA: Whelp. It felt great and then I went to braid it and realized that it feels stickier than ever.

I think the problem is just too much flax seed gel.

Um... just checking back in after doing the chelating thing and an ACV rinse...

So, I was very happy with the results last night until I went to put my hair up and realized it was still tacky. I decided last night that the constant tackiness in my hair might be from using too much flax seed gel.

This morning I woke up to some chemical burns on my head. I'm curious if anyone can help me determine what I might have done wrong. I tested the pH of all of my solutions before putting them on my head. So, I'm a bit confused.

My gut instinct is that I my mistake was in leaving the ACV rinse (pH 5) in my hair. Is it possible that as any remaining moisture evaporated the ACV remained and that residue is what caused me issues? I don't think it was the vitamin C powder and diluted shampoo because I didn't apply that near my scalp at all and rinsed it very very thoroughly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[MusicalSpoons]

Um... just checking back in after doing the chelating thing and an ACV rinse...

So, I was very happy with the results last night until I went to put my hair up and realized it was still tacky. I decided last night that the constant tackiness in my hair might be from using too much flax seed gel.

This morning I woke up to some chemical burns on my head. I'm curious if anyone can help me determine what I might have done wrong. I tested the pH of all of my solutions before putting them on my head. So, I'm a bit confused.

My gut instinct is that I my mistake was in leaving the ACV rinse (pH 5) in my hair. Is it possible that as any remaining moisture evaporated the ACV remained and that residue is what caused me issues? I don't think it was the vitamin C powder and diluted shampoo because I didn't apply that near my scalp at all and rinsed it very very thoroughly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ouch, I'm sorry to hear that! pH 5 shouldn't burn your scalp because the pH if skin is around 5.5 anyway. I have no experience with ACV so I don't know either way about possible residue.

[ynne]

Could it be some reaction in the shampoo + powder? As for the last rinse, I do it as the last step and can't say I'd feel any residue in my hair after, but it's very, very dilluted and in plain water (I don't check the pH, unfortunately) and my scalp isn't sensitive to ACV. I hope you figure out the culprit! As for tackiness, I know that most styling products significantly change the feel of my hair (I think half the reason I like mousse is because my hair still feels soft after), I don't know how much flax seed gel builds up, though.

[jane_marie]

Ouch, I'm sorry to hear that! pH 5 shouldn't burn your scalp because the pH if skin is around 5.5 anyway. I have no experience with ACV so I don't know either way about possible residue.

No worries the burns are quite minor I just feel a bit stupid. I am moderately worried that the acidity might mess up my scalps microbiome though.


Could it be some reaction in the shampoo + powder? As for the last rinse, I do it as the last step and can't say I'd feel any residue in my hair after, but it's very, very dilluted and in plain water (I don't check the pH, unfortunately) and my scalp isn't sensitive to ACV. I hope you figure out the culprit! As for tackiness, I know that most styling products significantly change the feel of my hair (I think half the reason I like mousse is because my hair still feels soft after), I don't know how much flax seed gel builds up, though.

I don't think my scalp would be reacting to the shampoo powder because I started the application about 4 inches down from my scalp.

I really feel like the problem is that I didn't think about evaporation but I can't be sure.

I have also had the thought that maybe the litmus papers were faulty? I double checked them before usage though by testing things with known pH values (lemon juice, spit, tap water, distilled water, bleach etc).

[MusicalSpoons]

No worries the burns are quite minor I just feel a bit stupid. I am moderately worried that the acidity might mess up my scalps microbiome though.


I really feel like the problem is that I didn't think about evaporation but I can't be sure.

I have also had the thought that maybe the litmus papers were faulty? I double checked them before usage though by testing things with known pH values (lemon juice, spit, tap water, distilled water, bleach etc).

Normal skin should recover quite well and quite quickly from temporary disruptions of the pH, and liquids only have a pH while they're liquid so once a rinse has dried is no longer acidic. However with sensitive skin pH disruptions can be harder to recover from, which is why it can be such an important factor when trying to troubleshoot any problems.

I agree, if it did leave behind anything once evaporated it could plausibly be a reaction to that (but like I said, I don't know what exactly that could be either!).

Litmus paper is never very exact, not like a pH meter, but I've always found it to be adequate for things to be used on skin and hair.

[Dark40]

Can aloe Vera gel be used as a leave in under a styling gel? I feel like it gives my hair moisture but it does nothing as far as hold is concerned. I'm just not sure if it's considered as moisturizing as a typical water-based leave in...

Yes, I think it can. No, I've never heard of Aloe Vera gel giving hold to the hair only being moisturizing to it. I've heard some really good benefits for the hair of Aloe Vera gel...

[Dark40]

Hey, can anyone give me a list of names of some setting lotions that was dated from the early 1980's on up to the beginning of the 1990's? I mean a list of Salon quality setting lotions? And, where in the US or online can I get them? Thanks!

[Jane99]

Jane Marie, I’m so sorry to hear about your poor scalp and to hear that your attempt didn’t even work the way you wanted. Hopefully you heal over quickly and in a few days it’s back to normal again. I don’t know if leaving the vinegar contributed or not because I always rinse the vinegar out of my hair after a few minutes when I use a vinegar rinse but it’s always been for me because of the smell.

[knobbly]

Does scalp soreness always mean it’s time to wash for you? Or can it mean something else?

I usually wash on Sundays and my scalp is super sore today, but not oily or anything. Could it just be tension or overuse of the same style (I’ve been lazy and it’s been in a bun on the same place on my head since washday.)

[florenonite]

Does scalp soreness always mean it’s time to wash for you? Or can it mean something else?

I usually wash on Sundays and my scalp is super sore today, but not oily or anything. Could it just be tension or overuse of the same style (I’ve been lazy and it’s been in a bun on the same place on my head since washday.)

Mine can be tender because of build up, which I think is usually hard water as it gets sorted with an alluvial (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/600148600/alluvial-chelating-crystal-rinse-255g) rinse. It can also be tender because I've been manipulating the follicles in the "wrong" direction, like doing a Dutch crown or a topknot.

[cat11]

I remember there being a thread where someone would post a hair toy they no longer wanted/could use and someone could claim it for free. To claim it the next person had to offer something of theirs up, which another person could claim, and it continued in a chain like that. I cant find it- is it just me not being able to find it or is this not a thing anymore? I got and gave some cool hair toys this way.

[neko_kawaii]

A
I remember there being a thread where someone would post a hair toy they no longer wanted/could use and someone could claim it for free. To claim it the next person had to offer something of theirs up, which another person could claim, and it continued in a chain like that. I cant find it- is it just me not being able to find it or is this not a thing anymore? I got and gave some cool hair toys this way.

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=124506

[knobbly]

Mine can be tender because of build up, which I think is usually hard water as it gets sorted with an alluvial (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/600148600/alluvial-chelating-crystal-rinse-255g) rinse. It can also be tender because I've been manipulating the follicles in the "wrong" direction, like doing a Dutch crown or a topknot.

Yeah it was in a LWB on the top of my head but that’s where I usually place my buns, so it’s not super different from my norm. That’s the confusing part.

[MusicalSpoons]

Yeah it was in a LWB on the top of my head but that’s where I usually place my buns, so it’s not super different from my norm. That’s the confusing part.

Was it the same actual bun since washday, or did you redo it at all?

Though I do sometimes find if I redo a bun in the exact same spot - putting the fork through in exactly the same place and everything - that my scalp can start to complain. Even if the placement is in the usual spot, it can complain if a piece of hair has been caught up the 'wrong' way with the fork or the way I did the ponytail or whatever. And if I've just rewrapped it in exactly the same place rather than taking the whole thing down, shaking out and fully redoing it then it can end up exactly the same.

The other thing is what you've used to hold the bun, whether it's perhaps pressing somewhere.

[knobbly]

That’s the funny part as well— I used my new Quattro fork and it was super lightweight and comfy. I did redo the buns several times a day. I’m sleeping/napping a lot these days and I would definitely redo it after getting up every time.

Soreness is also not on my crown but at the back of my head. Curiouser and curiouser.

[cat11]

A

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=124506

Thank you!!

[Ylva]

I found out that the city water has a pH of 8.5–8.9. That's pretty alkaline, no? Is that problematically alkaline for water?

Is it necessary for me to do something about it, like start acid rinses? I really don't think I could bother with such. Is anyone else here frequently using water of similar pH and not doing anything particular about it?

ETA: The water is, however, soft (0.5 mmol/l, or 2.8 °dH).

[C_Bookworm]

I found out that the city water has a pH of 8.5–8.9. That's pretty alkaline, no? Is that problematically alkaline for water?

Is it necessary for me to do something about it, like start acid rinses? I really don't think I could bother with such. Is anyone else here frequently using water of similar pH and not doing anything particular about it?

ETA: The water is, however, soft (0.5 mmol/l, or 2.8 °dH).

Same here. I haven’t done anything about it (only recently found out), but based on the condition of my hair/scalp, it doesn’t seem to have made a difference.

[MusicalSpoons]

I found out that the city water has a pH of 8.5–8.9. That's pretty alkaline, no? Is that problematically alkaline for water?

Is it necessary for me to do something about it, like start acid rinses? I really don't think I could bother with such. Is anyone else here frequently using water of similar pH and not doing anything particular about it?

ETA: The water is, however, soft (0.5 mmol/l, or 2.8 °dH).

The pH made me think 'oh dear' but that softness probably means it's fine. AFAIK alkaline water for hair is usually only really a problem if it's causing increased mineral deposits, but there are barely any minerals in there at those levels :laugh:

If it were me, I'd just keep an eye on the hair and be on the lookout for any signs of damage just in case. It might be good to take notice of how your skin feels with it too.

[Ylva]

Same here. I haven’t done anything about it (only recently found out), but based on the condition of my hair/scalp, it doesn’t seem to have made a difference.

That's great! Thank you for chiming in.


The pH made me think 'oh dear' but that softness probably means it's fine. AFAIK alkaline water for hair is usually only really a problem if it's causing increased mineral deposits, but there are barely any minerals in there at those levels :laugh:

If it were me, I'd just keep an eye on the hair and be on the lookout for any signs of damage just in case. It might be good to take notice of how your skin feels with it too.

This is the water I've been primarily using for over a year now. I haven't noticed any special damage, but I do know that my hair prefers my mom's well water. It just feels softer. But I can't say my hair feels bad or problematic with this water, either. Just less ideal. My skin feels fine, too. :) Thank you!

[knobbly]

Water pH can also change over time depending on the water source, season, rain fall, etc. So maybe it isn’t always that alkaline? (It’s uncommon for water hardness to change over the year but fairly common for pH to change.)

[Chromis]

I find using an acidic rinse pretty essential with hard water, but I will say that not all hard water is the same. Some minerals build up faster than others and hard water can often be high in more than only calcium. If you notice that your hair behaves nicer in areas with softer water, I'd say that is a pretty good clue that a rinse might be helpful for you! They are cheap and easy anyhow.

[Ylva]

Water pH can also change over time depending on the water source, season, rain fall, etc. So maybe it isn’t always that alkaline? (It’s uncommon for water hardness to change over the year but fairly common for pH to change.)

I see, that's useful to know. Thanks! I just picked up the info from the communal water website.


I find using an acidic rinse pretty essential with hard water, but I will say that not all hard water is the same. Some minerals build up faster than others and hard water can often be high in more than only calcium. If you notice that your hair behaves nicer in areas with softer water, I'd say that is a pretty good clue that a rinse might be helpful for you! They are cheap and easy anyhow.

In case this reply was directed at me, all of the water I use is soft. I don't have any experience with hard water. It was just about the pH. :)

[knobbly]

I see, that's useful to know. Thanks! I just picked up the info from the communal water website.


Haha I know a ton about hard and soft water, and a bit about pH, because I cloth diapered my kid of all things. Now I know a bit more because of nerdy hair stuff! :lol:

[Milynn]

In case this reply was directed at me, all of the water I use is soft. I don't have any experience with hard water. It was just about the pH. :)

As I live in Finland's capital, we have a bit alkaline water here (8.0 – 8.5) - I purchased a water softener about half a year ago (such a version which lowers PH as well, to around 4.7–5.5). I have not really noticed difference with my hair, but I do notice difference with my skin, as I have zero dry spots now. I used to have few, nothing serious though. Those few completely disappeared. Timing fits with acquiring the "softener", though naturally I cannot be completely sure it is to "blame" :)

[lapushka]

Um... just checking back in after doing the chelating thing and an ACV rinse...

So, I was very happy with the results last night until I went to put my hair up and realized it was still tacky. I decided last night that the constant tackiness in my hair might be from using too much flax seed gel.

This morning I woke up to some chemical burns on my head. I'm curious if anyone can help me determine what I might have done wrong. I tested the pH of all of my solutions before putting them on my head. So, I'm a bit confused.

My gut instinct is that I my mistake was in leaving the ACV rinse (pH 5) in my hair. Is it possible that as any remaining moisture evaporated the ACV remained and that residue is what caused me issues? I don't think it was the vitamin C powder and diluted shampoo because I didn't apply that near my scalp at all and rinsed it very very thoroughly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Good gosh don't tell me you left vinegar on your head? :shocked:

[ynne]

Good gosh don't tell me you left vinegar on your head? :shocked:

I believe it's ok to leave it in as long as it's dilluted enough! I've read that it should be more dilluted than a rinse that's washed out after. (The pHs are listed here (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/ph-and-your-hair-little-redox-to-make.html).) I've also seen, in some of the ACV threads here, other people who don't rinse it out. :) But it seems to be a trial-and-error whether one's scalp and hair will be happy with rinsing/not rinsing!

[Bonsai]

Good gosh don't tell me you left vinegar on your head? :shocked:

I do it all the time... maybe secret is in proportion? I usually use 1 spoon vinegar to 0,5 l water.

[MusicalSpoons]

Good gosh don't tell me you left vinegar on your head? :shocked:

jane_marie did specify the rinse had a pH of 5; straight vinegar is about 2-3. Straight vinegar would be a tad more concerning than a rinse ;)

[clandestine]

Can you over use a heated bonnet? I finally bought one and I'm obsessed. It seems like it helps everything soak into my hair so much better but I'm curious to see if you can over do it.

[Ylva]

Haha I know a ton about hard and soft water, and a bit about pH, because I cloth diapered my kid of all things. Now I know a bit more because of nerdy hair stuff! :lol:

It's lovely when you can benefit from prior knowledge in hair care. :D


As I live in Finland's capital, we have a bit alkaline water here (8.0 – 8.5) - I purchased a water softener about half a year ago (such a version which lowers PH as well, to around 4.7–5.5). I have not really noticed difference with my hair, but I do notice difference with my skin, as I have zero dry spots now. I used to have few, nothing serious though. Those few completely disappeared. Timing fits with acquiring the "softener", though naturally I cannot be completely sure it is to "blame" :)

Ah, I didn't even know you could lower the pH with those things as well! Which store is yours from, if I may ask? Also, does it sting if the lower pH water gets in your eyes?

[Milynn]

Ah, I didn't even know you could lower the pH with those things as well! Which store is yours from, if I may ask? Also, does it sting if the lower pH water gets in your eyes?

Mine is from here https://www.aqva.fi/AQVA-Suihkusuodatin/ekauppa/pAQ004/
I actually have no idea about stinging, I have never noticed - either I have accidently been very careful or it does not sting :D I doubt it is able to lower PH enough for that. I think the actual effect might be quite minor, but so far there has only been positive issues.

This lowering PH method apparently bases on to adding minor amount of C-vitamin into the water. In some sense this is logical, as C-vitamin acts as an acid, but if someone knows more about this I would be delighted to hear about it :)

[ynne]

Can aloe Vera gel be used as a leave in under a styling gel? I feel like it gives my hair moisture but it does nothing as far as hold is concerned. I'm just not sure if it's considered as moisturizing as a typical water-based leave in...
I didn't mean to ignore this question, but I think it would really just depend on how your own hair responds to aloe? I find that product layering is highly individual. :) Did you get to experiment with this combination?

[Lucy McLucyFace]

I know there's a lot of threads about this already but I've been getting an ever increased number of those wiry thick and wavy hairs. A lot of them are new and so they don't lay down with the rest of my hair and instead spring up to form crazy flyways. They don't seem like just a new hair texture because they are so ridiculously thick and course and stiff.

I was wondering, are they a sign that those hair follicles will be producing grey hairs soon? I heard somewhere that it is but I don't know if that's true or not. My parents only got grey hairs after 35 so I'm still a long ways away but my aunt did get greys at 16 so who knows

[lapis_lazuli]

I know there's a lot of threads about this already but I've been getting an ever increased number of those wiry thick and wavy hairs. A lot of them are new and so they don't lay down with the rest of my hair and instead spring up to form crazy flyways. They don't seem like just a new hair texture because they are so ridiculously thick and course and stiff.

I was wondering, are they a sign that those hair follicles will be producing grey hairs soon? I heard somewhere that it is but I don't know if that's true or not. My parents only got grey hairs after 35 so I'm still a long ways away but my aunt did get greys at 16 so who knows

That's interesting, I haven't heard of that. I will say those hairs started popping up for me around age 13 and I don't have any greys yet. Though the reasons for them are still mysterious to me :hmm:

[Bri-Chan]

Yesterday in the evening I washed my hair. Since summer is over, I started using an hairdryer (I have a very sensitive throat) with a diffuser, medium speed and heat. I usually use it for about 20 minutes, the time I need to have my roots dry and my length damp. I let it airdry, it takes about 2 hours this way. Well, yesterday it takes a lot to getting damp. I actually stopped using the hairdryer after 50 minutes because I was tired (and I hate drying my hair). My lengths and ends were still wet. Not soaking wet, but wet. It was around 11 pm. I went to bed around 1 am, and it was in the same way. I let it drying while sleeping but when I woke up, 9 am, I still had some damp piece. Now, 10.30 am, it's dry but quite ugly, frizzier and less defined than usual. But the times it took to dry is insane. How was that possible? Also when I let my hair completely airdrying it takes less, about 6 hours.
I'll describe what I did.
I did a pre-poo with coconut oil (I did this for years), applied on damp hair. I had very dry lengths and ends to start with. I applied the oil at about 11 am and I shampooed at 9 pm. I use an harsh shampoo, and I did two shampoo (it was a week since my last wash, and I usually wash twice a week) but I shampooed the roots only. I applied my conditioner, a good amount, I detangled. As styling, I decided to use my favorite mousse so far. I usually used a little amount of product but, since it was the first time I used it with an hairdryer, I decided to use more mousse. Quite a lot more, it's a light mousse and I like to have some cast. I thought, that in the worst scenario I'd ended with a huge cast. This passage is the only one different from usual.
My hair now feel very soft (and it's the feeling I usually have with that mousse) but without my usual definition, but like ... it feels like naked "curls".

[Idjit]

Yesterday in the evening I washed my hair. Since summer is over, I started using an hairdryer (I have a very sensitive throat) with a diffuser, medium speed and heat. I usually use it for about 20 minutes, the time I need to have my roots dry and my length damp. I let it airdry, it takes about 2 hours this way. Well, yesterday it takes a lot to getting damp. I actually stopped using the hairdryer after 50 minutes because I was tired (and I hate drying my hair). My lengths and ends were still wet. Not soaking wet, but wet. It was around 11 pm. I went to bed around 1 am, and it was in the same way. I let it drying while sleeping but when I woke up, 9 am, I still had some damp piece. Now, 10.30 am, it's dry but quite ugly, frizzier and less defined than usual. But the times it took to dry is insane. How was that possible? Also when I let my hair completely airdrying it takes less, about 6 hours.
I'll describe what I did.
I did a pre-poo with coconut oil (I did this for years), applied on damp hair. I had very dry lengths and ends to start with. I applied the oil at about 11 am and I shampooed at 9 pm. I use an harsh shampoo, and I did two shampoo (it was a week since my last wash, and I usually wash twice a week) but I shampooed the roots only. I applied my conditioner, a good amount, I detangled. As styling, I decided to use my favorite mousse so far. I usually used a little amount of product but, since it was the first time I used it with an hairdryer, I decided to use more mousse. Quite a lot more, it's a light mousse and I like to have some cast. I thought, that in the worst scenario I'd ended with a huge cast. This passage is the only one different from usual.
My hair now feel very soft (and it's the feeling I usually have with that mousse) but without my usual definition, but like ... it feels like naked "curls".

In my experience hair takes a lot longer to dry with more product in and also dries much slower while sleeping. I can air dry in 3 hours but will still have wet hair after a full night's sleep (8hours) just out of the shower. Sounds like both of these factors combined for you.

[KokoroDragon]

Does ACV dry hair faster? I always use an ACV rinse after shampooing (I use a soap-based bar shampoo) but usually I rinse it out right away. Last week I let it sit for a few minutes, and when I went to rinse it was on the dry side of damp. It had only been 5-10 minutes since I poured the ACV rinse onto my hair, and usually it takes my hair several hours to dry.

[Begemot]

Can you over use a heated bonnet? I finally bought one and I'm obsessed. It seems like it helps everything soak into my hair so much better but I'm curious to see if you can over do it.

I have wondered this as well. It's not like using heat styling tools but heat is heat, or...?

[jane_marie]

Hey all. The weird tacky build up I had going onis back and I have figured out that it was the conditioner I was using.

I ended up buying Nexxus Hydra-Light instead. Has anyone used it for an SMT? It was sort of pricey on my current budget and I don't want to waste it if it doesn't work well for SMT.

ETA: Oh, in case anyone is curious my scalp is fine now. :)

[Bri-Chan]

In my experience hair takes a lot longer to dry with more product in and also dries much slower while sleeping. I can air dry in 3 hours but will still have wet hair after a full night's sleep (8hours) just out of the shower. Sounds like both of these factors combined for you.

I didn't expect this to take so much. Anyway, I thought could also be moisture overload. The way it looks seems like that.

[Dark40]

Hi all,

How often do you any of you do hot oil treatments around here? Especially, if you're using some type of grease with a mixture of anyone of your favorite oils. Or, doing it using Alberto VO5 Shower Works Hot Oil Treatment. I know that's a weekly treatment but I just curious...

[ynne]

Does anyone else do a disc bun/nautilus bun hybrid? Starting with one loop, but when you are done wrapping the tail around the base, you split the one loop into two and secure it as a disc bun. It looks more like a proper "8".

[MusicalSpoons]

Does anyone else do a disc bun/nautilus bun hybrid? Starting with one loop, but when you are done wrapping the tail around the base, you split the one loop into two and secure it as a disc bun. It looks more like a proper "8".

Oh yes, that sounds like a bun I used to do, although I didn't twist the loop, only wrapped it as at the start of a LWB. I really can't remember the name though :hmm:

[Carrie's hair]

Hi all,
How often do you any of you do hot oil treatments around here? Especially, if you're using some type of grease with a mixture of anyone of your favorite oils. Or, doing it using Alberto VO5 Shower Works Hot Oil Treatment. I know that's a weekly treatment but I just curious...
I don't do it now, but it used to be once or twice a week.

[ynne]

Oh yes, that sounds like a bun I used to do, although I didn't twist the loop, only wrapped it as at the start of a LWB. I really can't remember the name though :hmm:

Oh, I don't twist the base either, as my hair is too short for that and the loop becomes too small to hold it! If someone remembers, I'd like to know the name of this variety I accidentally did to make it faster. :)

[MusicalSpoons]

Oh, I don't twist the base either, as my hair is too short for that and the loop becomes too small to hold it! If someone remembers, I'd like to know the name of this variety I accidentally did to make it faster. :)

Ah, I thought twisting to create the loop because you mentioned the nautilus. In that case if you just make the loop then it's probably the same one I did. Haven't seen it for ages though, I'm not sure if it's even in the hairstyle thesaurus? If I find it again I shall certainly let you know!

[Dark40]

I don't do it now, but it used to be once or twice a week.

Ohhh, ok cool. That's great that you can do it once or twice a week. Like they say, "The more the marrier." That i mean, it will make your hair grow better, healthier, and shinier. I thank you so much for your response. Why don't you do it anymore?

[Carrie's hair]

I started using the oil because of my scalp problems, and not all of them fit my purpose. For example, after coconut I have dandruff. I stopped because I don't want to buy oil for now. I'm finishing what I have. And because of the pandemic. I have some cosmetics in another house.

[Dark40]

I started using the oil because of my scalp problems, and not all of them fit my purpose. For example, after coconut I have dandruff. I stopped because I don't want to buy oil for now. I'm finishing what I have. And because of the pandemic. I have some cosmetics in another house.

Ohhh, ok I see. I'm so sorry to hear of your scalp problems, and it all not fitting your purpose. Wow, coconut caused you dandruff? That's weird, and I thought that it was very moisturizing for the hair. Well, I've always known that it does cause a lot of people some problems. Yeah, I can understand the reason for the pandemic. Oh, ok you have some cosmetics in another house. Yeah, I'm the same way. I had a HUGE hair product stash. I still believe that I have a HUGE hair product stash in the last house I lived in 10 years ago. I really wish that I can go back to it, and get some more stuff that I've missed over the years.

[Carrie's hair]

Oils do not moisturize. It's fats. They can keep you hydrated. Coconut is my favorite hair-length oil, that's right! I love him. I read that in case of problems with the scalp, it can irritate the scalp because it has oleic acid (it nourishes Malassezia fungi). There are 4 such oils: coconut, shea, olive oil and castor oil.

Oh, the worst part is losing cosmetics that have already been discontinued, so if there are any left in your old house then I feel sorry.

[florenonite]

Does anyone else do a disc bun/nautilus bun hybrid? Starting with one loop, but when you are done wrapping the tail around the base, you split the one loop into two and secure it as a disc bun. It looks more like a proper "8".

It sounds like a split bun. I had a thread about that a million years ago but I can't for the life of me find it now.

[ynne]

It sounds like a split bun. I had a thread about that a million years ago but I can't for the life of me find it now.

Ah, that's it, thanks so much!! I found this tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-K9CidKTfA), which... curiously, compares it to a hypno bun instead. But I guess that just goes to show how similar all these variants are! I suppose they could all be called a variant of one bun. :)

[Dark40]

Oils do not moisturize. It's fats. They can keep you hydrated. Coconut is my favorite hair-length oil, that's right! I love him. I read that in case of problems with the scalp, it can irritate the scalp because it has oleic acid (it nourishes Malassezia fungi). There are 4 such oils: coconut, shea, olive oil and castor oil.

Oh, the worst part is losing cosmetics that have already been discontinued, so if there are any left in your old house then I feel sorry.

Yes, that's true. That's a better word I was looking for that oils keep you hydrated instead of moisturizing. Yes, coconut is also my favorite hair-length oil too! Oh, I didn't know that it is oleic acid. Oh, ok that's good to know that it nourishes Malassezia fungi. Oh, I love those 4 oils.

Yes, that is very true that is worse when losing cosmetics if they have already been discontinued but the good part about it is the majority of the products like:
Pantene Pro-V, Giovanni, and Paul Mitchele's products are still on the market today. I had Paul Mitchele's Skinny Shampoo and Conditioner I think it was called, Giovanni Direct Leave-in Conditioner, 50/50 Balance Conditioner, and one of his shampoos. I also had a total of 16 bottles of shampoo and conditioners for Color-Treated and Damaged hair. I had 8 bottles of Infusium23 Shampoo for Dry/Damaged Hair, and 8 bottles of Conditioner for Dry/Damaged Hair, 8 bottles of Infusium23 Shampoo for Color-Treated Hair, and 8 bottles of Conditioner for Color-Treated Hair. I also had Redken products as well like: Redken Color Extend Shampoo and Conditioner, and it is still on the market today. So, for the majority of the products I was using back then I still use today, and they are still on the market. So, I don't feel bad at all since there are not discontinued.

Oh yeah, I wanted yo make a correction about oils do moisturized the hair. Yes, they do moisturize the hair. When you said the hydrate it that means the same thing as moisturize. Here is the link to the article on it that explains it all:


https://www.carolsdaughter.com/blog/hair/natural-hairstyles/best-hair-oils-for-coily-hair.html#:~:text=Do%20oils%20moisturize%20hair%3F ,purpose%20of%20sealing%20in%20moisture.

[florenonite]

Yes, that's true. That's a better word I was looking for that oils keep you hydrated instead of moisturizing. Yes, coconut is also my favorite hair-length oil too! Oh, I didn't know that it is oleic acid. Oh, ok that's good to know that it nourishes Malassezia fungi. Oh, I love those 4 oils.

Yes, that is very true that is worse when losing cosmetics if they have already been discontinued but the good part about it is the majority of the products like:
Pantene Pro-V, Giovanni, and Paul Mitchele's products are still on the market today. I had Paul Mitchele's Skinny Shampoo and Conditioner I think it was called, Giovanni Direct Leave-in Conditioner, 50/50 Balance Conditioner, and one of his shampoos. I also had a total of 16 bottles of shampoo and conditioners for Color-Treated and Damaged hair. I had 8 bottles of Infusium23 Shampoo for Dry/Damaged Hair, and 8 bottles of Conditioner for Dry/Damaged Hair, 8 bottles of Infusium23 Shampoo for Color-Treated Hair, and 8 bottles of Conditioner for Color-Treated Hair. I also had Redken products as well like: Redken Color Extend Shampoo and Conditioner, and it is still on the market today. So, for the majority of the products I was using back then I still use today, and they are still on the market. So, I don't feel bad at all since there are not discontinued.

Oh yeah, I wanted yo make a correction about oils do moisturized the hair. Yes, they do moisturize the hair. When you said the hydrate it that means the same thing as moisturize. Here is the link to the article on it that explains it all:


https://www.carolsdaughter.com/blog/hair/natural-hairstyles/best-hair-oils-for-coily-hair.html#:~:text=Do%20oils%20moisturize%20hair%3F ,purpose%20of%20sealing%20in%20moisture.

That's inaccurate. Carrie's hair is correct that oils can KEEP hair hydrated/moisturised, but they cannot IMPART moisture, because moisture is water, and oil and water do not mix. So applying oil to damp hair, for instance, can seal in the moisture in the strands, but oil itself does not moisturise. It doesn't matter whether or not it penetrates the hair; an oil cannot moisturise hair because an oil does not contain moisture.

I think this is best explained on Science-y Hair blog (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/07/moisturizing-low-porosity-hair.html):


Moisture is water. Not conditioner, not oil. You don't drink oil when you're thirsty.

This post (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html) also gives a better explanation of the benefits of penetrating versus non-penetrating oils.

[Carrie's hair]

I also recently found out about the oleic acid in these oils Dark 40. I knew coconut was bad for my scalp, but I didn't know why. If you have a healthy scalp, you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, it is worth observing how the skin reacts.
Thank you very much for the link :joy:. I was just about to write to see if you have any source that oils moisturize. I start reading.

[Carrie's hair]

florenonit thank you for the links <3.

[Dark40]

That's inaccurate. Carrie's hair is correct that oils can KEEP hair hydrated/moisturised, but they cannot IMPART moisture, because moisture is water, and oil and water do not mix. So applying oil to damp hair, for instance, can seal in the moisture in the strands, but oil itself does not moisturise. It doesn't matter whether or not it penetrates the hair; an oil cannot moisturise hair because an oil does not contain moisture.

I think this is best explained on Science-y Hair blog (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/07/moisturizing-low-porosity-hair.html):



This post (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html) also gives a better explanation of the benefits of penetrating versus non-penetrating oils.

Yeah but oils on dry hair is suppose to keep your hair from being dry, isn't it? What's the point in apply oil to the hair if it doesn't IMPART moisture? I also knew that oil and water don't mix. But I wasn't talking about applying oil to wet or damp hair. I never do that.

The kind of oils I'm referring to is like, carrot oil, olive oil, tea-tree oil, Indian oils, jojoba oil, and broccoli seed oil to apply on dry hair not wet or damp hair.

[Dark40]

I also recently found out about the oleic acid in these oils Dark 40. I knew coconut was bad for my scalp, but I didn't know why. If you have a healthy scalp, you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, it is worth observing how the skin reacts.
Thank you very much for the link :joy:. I was just about to write to see if you have any source that oils moisturize. I start reading.

Oh, ok Carrie's hair. I didn't know that you recently found out that those oils have oleic acid in them. I bet you didn't know why the coconut was bad for your scalp, I bet that was a big disappointment. The only problem I have with my scalp is dandruff/flakes. Or, dryness. That's why I follow up with hot oil treatments and deep moisturizing treatments once or twice a week.

You're welcome for the link :joy:

[Carrie's hair]

The point is that if you put on, for example, aloe vera gel and your favorite oil on it, you'll hydrate your hair. The oil will keep the hydration from aloe vera. It won't evaporate that easily. If you only use oil, you will keep the hydration that is already in hair, but you won't add any more.

Edit: I mean, this is my thinking. I will have to read more about it.

[MusicalSpoons]

The point is that if you put on, for example, aloe vera gel and your favorite oil on it, you'll hydrate your hair. The oil will keep the hydration from aloe vera. It won't evaporate that easily. If you only use oil, you will keep the hydration that is already in hair, but you won't add any more.

Edit: I mean, this is my thinking. I will have to read more about it.

That's exactly it.

Moisture/hydration = WATER. Oils can help give flexibility, 'nourishment', shine, etc. But if you only use oil and don't ever HYDRATE your hair with water, you will end up with dry and brittle hair.

I went through a phase of using oils/oil-based lip balm on my lips but I didn't hydrate them properly, so I had horrible dry, chapped, bleeding lips. When I started using lotion on them (with water as the first ingredient of the lotion, just like conditioner) to moisturise and then putting oil on afterwards, they started healing. They needed moisture, not just oil.

The links from Science-y Hair Blog do explain it all.

[florenonite]

Yeah but oils on dry hair is suppose to keep your hair from being dry, isn't it? What's the point in apply oil to the hair if it doesn't IMPART moisture? I also knew that oil and water don't mix. But I wasn't talking about applying oil to wet or damp hair. I never do that.

The kind of oils I'm referring to is like, carrot oil, olive oil, tea-tree oil, Indian oils, jojoba oil, and broccoli seed oil to apply on dry hair not wet or damp hair.

From the Science-y Hair Blog article (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html) I linked above:


Hair with oils applied to it lines up better with neighboring hairs thanks to the lubricating properties of oils (slip). Oils generally increase glossiness. When water is able to get inside the hair easily, it swells on the inside. But the cuticle layer on the outside cannot expand, so the cuticle scales are forced to stand up - a position in which the cuticles are easily broken and the hair is more porous. Oils which penetrate into hair make the hair proteins more hydrophobic (water-repelling). Healthy, strong hair is naturally hydrophobic. Normal and lower porosity hair is somewhat hydrophobic. Hydrophobicity (water-repelling) is a matter of balance. What we don't want is for our hair to take on too much water, too quickly. That's the problem. Hair gets dehydrated. Re-hydrating hair is a good thing. But when hair is porous, it takes on more water than is good for it, too quickly and that's when the swelling occurs.

Applying oil to dry hair has benefits, but none of those benefits are to do with adding moisture to hair.

[Ada-banana]

I think oil can seal the hair from moisture, that you indeed need to moisture it and then you can put oil on it as extra protection.

This being said, I'm going to put my own question here.

Amapola helped me in the swapped board with my ficarre problem. No matter what I do, my ficarre's always seem to pull. Now Amapola tried to describe exactly how to put in a ficarre. I didn't manage it, when I start walking around it's starts sliding and pulling again. Now I'm wearing my ficarre in a weird french twist, which is going OKish.
Questions:
Do you know what Im doing wrong? I have waist length iii hair (but only just, with 11 cm, i think my hair has greatly thinned due to stress, I remember it much fuller)
Could you describe me exactly how you put your ficarre in your hair?
And can you put a ficarre on a hypnobun?

Thanks in advance!

[TatsuOni]

I think oil can seal the hair from moisture, that you indeed need to moisture it and then you can put oil on it as extra protection.

This being said, I'm going to put my own question here.

Amapola helped me in the swapped board with my ficarre problem. No matter what I do, my ficarre's always seem to pull. Now Amapola tried to describe exactly how to put in a ficarre. I didn't manage it, when I start walking around it's starts sliding and pulling again. Now I'm wearing my ficarre in a weird french twist, which is going OKish.
Questions:
Do you know what Im doing wrong? I have waist length iii hair (but only just, with 11 cm, i think my hair has greatly thinned due to stress, I remember it much fuller)
Could you describe me exactly how you put your ficarre in your hair?
And can you put a ficarre on a hypnobun?

Thanks in advance!

Have you tried it in others styles? Like a log roll or a french twist?

[Ada-banana]

Yes, now I'm wearing it in a French twist, and this seems to be reasonably comfortable.

[TatsuOni]

Yes, now I'm wearing it in a French twist, and this seems to be reasonably comfortable.

I like to add a few U-pins to the twist to take some weight off the ficcare.

[Dark40]

From the Science-y Hair Blog article (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html) I linked above:



Applying oil to dry hair has benefits, but none of those benefits are to do with adding moisture to hair.

I totally understand what you are saying, and I also understand the article you sent above as well I thank you for the link but in my opinion oils are moisturizing for the hair. Now, I have a link for you to know and understand how oils are moisturizing to the hair as well. I've been doing my hair ever since I was 10 years old. I know a lot of what is moisturizing what is not.

https://www.lusterspink.com/about-luster.php

https://www.lusterspink.com/pink-original-oil-moisturizer-lotion.php

Now, these are the links that tells all about this type of oil and lotion that moisturizes the hair.

[Dark40]

Now, before I apply oil to moisturize my hair after every wash I do condition it.

[MusicalSpoons]

I totally understand what you are saying, and I also understand the article you sent above as well I thank you for the link but in my opinion oils are moisturizing for the hair. Now, I have a link for you to know and understand how oils are moisturizing to the hair as well.

https://www.lusterspink.com/about-luster.php

https://www.lusterspink.com/pink-original-oil-moisturizer-lotion.php

Now, these are the links that tells all about this type of oil and lotion that moisturizes the hair.

That second one is a lotion, which means it contains water, so yes it probably is moisturising. It's not actually backing up your opinion because it's not straight oil, it's a lotion.

You can have your opinion that facts are wrong, but it doesn't actually change those facts. Facts are facts, and our opinion does not change or affect them in any way. Science-y Hair Blog is a neutral, trustworthy source - the author is a scientist and tells the science how it is, her only agenda is to give accurate information.

[DropStitches]

I totally understand what you are saying, and I also understand the article you sent above as well I thank you for the link but in my opinion oils are moisturizing for the hair. Now, I have a link for you to know and understand how oils are moisturizing to the hair as well. I've been doing my hair ever since I was 10 years old. I know a lot of what is moisturizing what is not.

https://www.lusterspink.com/about-luster.php

https://www.lusterspink.com/pink-original-oil-moisturizer-lotion.php

Now, these are the links that tells all about this type of oil and lotion that moisturizes the hair.

Interesting! I hadn’t come across this product before (maybe we don’t have it in the U.K.?), and had a look at its ingredients (which I found here: https://shop.naturallycurly.com/lusters-pink-oil-moisturizer-hair-lotion-32-oz/) - it looks like it’s a blend of humectants (a word I had not heard before I started frequenting these boards!) and oils to seal the moisture in.

I think actually that’s been one of the most useful thing I’ve learned from here, is that oils lock moisture in but do not add their own moisture (sorry if I’m expressing that wrongly). I’ve started using a little bit of oil on damp hair after washing, which seems to have made a big difference to the condition of my hair.

I do occasionally use olive oil as a pre-poo scalp massage, but now that I’m writing this, I realise I’m not clear why exactly I do this, other than it feels nice to have a bit of a massage?! I presume it’s not *moisturizing*? I like to use oil as part of a double cleanse for my face skin, so I guess I thought it might work for my head skin too!

[Ada-banana]

I will try that one. Maybe Ill invest also in spin pins. Thank you.

[florenonite]

I totally understand what you are saying, and I also understand the article you sent above as well I thank you for the link but in my opinion oils are moisturizing for the hair. Now, I have a link for you to know and understand how oils are moisturizing to the hair as well. I've been doing my hair ever since I was 10 years old. I know a lot of what is moisturizing what is not.

https://www.lusterspink.com/about-luster.php

https://www.lusterspink.com/pink-original-oil-moisturizer-lotion.php

Now, these are the links that tells all about this type of oil and lotion that moisturizes the hair.

Lotion and oil are not the same thing. Lotions can moisturise as they contain water, and it is water that is moisturising because moisture is literally water.

A company calling their product an "oil moisturizer lotion" doesn't mean that oil moisturises hair; it just means that customers will buy a product with that name.


Interesting! I hadn’t come across this product before (maybe we don’t have it in the U.K.?), and had a look at its ingredients (which I found here: https://shop.naturallycurly.com/lusters-pink-oil-moisturizer-hair-lotion-32-oz/) - it looks like it’s a blend of humectants (a word I had not heard before I started frequenting these boards!) and oils to seal the moisture in.

I think actually that’s been one of the most useful thing I’ve learned from here, is that oils lock moisture in but do not add their own moisture (sorry if I’m expressing that wrongly). I’ve started using a little bit of oil on damp hair after washing, which seems to have made a big difference to the condition of my hair.

I do occasionally use olive oil as a pre-poo scalp massage, but now that I’m writing this, I realise I’m not clear why exactly I do this, other than it feels nice to have a bit of a massage?! I presume it’s not *moisturizing*? I like to use oil as part of a double cleanse for my face skin, so I guess I thought it might work for my head skin too!

It's not moisturising, but it can help porous hair from getting damaged by soaking up too much water and lifting the cuticle as the cortex swells with water. So it can definitely be helpful, particularly with damaged hair, even though it's not moisturising. And if it helps your scalp, then that's definitely a benefit as well!

[Dark40]

Interesting! I hadn’t come across this product before (maybe we don’t have it in the U.K.?), and had a look at its ingredients (which I found here: https://shop.naturallycurly.com/lusters-pink-oil-moisturizer-hair-lotion-32-oz/) - it looks like it’s a blend of humectants (a word I had not heard before I started frequenting these boards!) and oils to seal the moisture in.

I think actually that’s been one of the most useful thing I’ve learned from here, is that oils lock moisture in but do not add their own moisture (sorry if I’m expressing that wrongly). I’ve started using a little bit of oil on damp hair after washing, which seems to have made a big difference to the condition of my hair.

I do occasionally use olive oil as a pre-poo scalp massage, but now that I’m writing this, I realise I’m not clear why exactly I do this, other than it feels nice to have a bit of a massage?! I presume it’s not *moisturizing*? I like to use oil as part of a double cleanse for my face skin, so I guess I thought it might work for my head skin too! You are quite welcome for all of the information about this wonderful product! Thank you for the link you've sent me as well! You are doing right to use oils as for moisturizing and massaging. Yes, I bet it isn't available in the U.K. That's because it is sold in the USA, and it is very moisturizing to the hair and scalp!


Lotion and oil are not the same thing. Lotions can moisturise as they contain water, and it is water that is moisturising because moisture is literally water.

A company calling their product an "oil moisturizer lotion" doesn't mean that oil moisturises hair; it just means that customers will buy a product with that name.



It's not moisturising, but it can help porous hair from getting damaged by soaking up too much water and lifting the cuticle as the cortex swells with water. So it can definitely be helpful, particularly with damaged hair, even though it's not moisturising. And if it helps your scalp, then that's definitely a benefit as well!

I know that oil and lotion are not the same thing, and I never said that they were. But this product is a pink oil in lotion form. It contains mineral oil and water. This company would not lie about their product moisturizing the hair so that customers can buy to just make money. I've been using it since I was 13 years old, and it kept my hair well-moisturized.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. I know that you're gonna have your opinions about oils not moisturizing the hair and scalp, and I'm gonna have mine, and a lot of African-American people use it and they have told me that it's moisturizing.

[DropStitches]

It's not moisturising, but it can help porous hair from getting damaged by soaking up too much water and lifting the cuticle as the cortex swells with water. So it can definitely be helpful, particularly with damaged hair, even though it's not moisturising. And if it helps your scalp, then that's definitely a benefit as well!

That’s really helpful and informative, thank you! What a mine of information these boards are!

[Dark40]

That’s really helpful and informative, thank you! What a mine of information these boards are!

Don't believe that. It is moisturizing! That's why they call it, "Pink Oil Moisturizing Lotion!"

[Bonsai]

Don't believe that. It is moisturizing! That's why they call it, "Pink Oil Moisturizing Lotion!"

You're wrong, you should believe...

https://oureverydaylife.com/active-ingredients-in-pink-lotion-12364129.html

Special that is interesting:
"Like most hair products, the main ingredient found in pink lotion is water. Water is the base of the product and allows the product to maintain its liquid form. Due to the water in the product, shaking is required before use to ensure the product is well mixed."


Oil doesn't help without water. You need BOTH.

[florenonite]

You are quite welcome for all of the information about this wonderful product! Thank you for the link you've sent me as well! You are doing right to use oils as for moisturizing and massaging. Yes, I bet it isn't available in the U.K. That's because it is sold in the USA, and it is very moisturizing to the hair and scalp!



I know that oil and lotion are not the same thing, and I never said that they were. But this product is a pink oil in lotion form. It contains mineral oil and water. This company would not lie about their product moisturizing the hair so that customers can buy to just make money. I've been using it since I was 13 years old, and it kept my hair well-moisturized.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. I know that you're gonna have your opinions about oils not moisturizing the hair and scalp, and I'm gonna have mine, and a lot of African-American people use it and they have told me that it's moisturizing.

It's not about opinions; it's about scientific fact. Water is the only thing that can moisturise, because moisture IS WATER. Oil is not water, therefore it cannot moisturise. A product that contains oil and water can be moisturising, but a pure oil cannot, because it does not contain water. Oil is hydrophobic, meaning it REPELS water, which is why it can be useful for sealing in moisture, but it cannot provide water for the hair.

[DropStitches]

Don't believe that. It is moisturizing! That's why they call it, "Pink Oil Moisturizing Lotion!"


You're wrong, you should believe...

https://oureverydaylife.com/active-ingredients-in-pink-lotion-12364129.html

Special that is interesting:
"Like most hair products, the main ingredient found in pink lotion is water. Water is the base of the product and allows the product to maintain its liquid form. Due to the water in the product, shaking is required before use to ensure the product is well mixed."


Oil doesn't help without water. You need BOTH.

Dark40, that’s awesome that you’ve found a product that works for you - and how cool that you’ve been using it for such a long time! It seems like this ‘Pink Oil Moisturizing Lotion’ *is* moisturizing but not *just* because it has oil in it - if I’ve understood the science correctly, the oil locks in the humectants (ingredients that pull in moisture like the Panthenol in the Pink Oil Moisturizing Lotion). I can see why it’s a bit confusing because it’s got ‘oil’ and ‘moisturizing’ right next to each other in the name, but the oil is helping those other ingredients to do the moisturizing, rather than doing the moisturizing itself, just like Bonsai said. It sounds lovely, at any rate, and I’ll be sure to try it if I get the chance!

ETA: floreronite maybe said this much more clearly than me - hope I haven’t furthered confused this issue!

[MusicalSpoons]

I know that oil and lotion are not the same thing, and I never said that they were. But this product is a pink oil in lotion form. It contains mineral oil and water. This company would not lie about their product moisturizing the hair so that customers can buy to just make money. I've been using it since I was 13 years old, and it kept my hair well-moisturized.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. I know that you're gonna have your opinions about oils not moisturizing the hair and scalp, and I'm gonna have mine, and a lot of African-American people use it and they have told me that it's moisturizing.

This product is LOTION so it contains WATER which is why it can be accurately described as MOISTURISING.

This product is NOT OIL BY ITSELF. Oil by itself is very beneficial for hair and skin but does NOT add moisture.


What do you drink when you're thirsty? Oil, or water?

[Carrie's hair]

Gee, what a discussion. I think it must be corrected that when we write oil, we mean pure oil. No silicone blends, no oil products, no mineral oils, just a product that has only oil or a few oils in INCI. It was this issue that interested me. That's what I wrote earlier.

[Dark40]

Dark40, that’s awesome that you’ve found a product that works for you - and how cool that you’ve been using it for such a long time! It seems like this ‘Pink Oil Moisturizing Lotion’ *is* moisturizing but not *just* because it has oil in it - if I’ve understood the science correctly, the oil locks in the humectants (ingredients that pull in moisture like the Panthenol in the Pink Oil Moisturizing Lotion). I can see why it’s a bit confusing because it’s got ‘oil’ and ‘moisturizing’ right next to each other in the name, but the oil is helping those other ingredients to do the moisturizing, rather than doing the moisturizing itself, just like Bonsai said. It sounds lovely, at any rate, and I’ll be sure to try it if I get the chance!

ETA: floreronite maybe said this much more clearly than me - hope I haven’t furthered confused this issue!

DropStitches, Thank you for your kind words! Yes, I'm glad I've found something that works for me too, and I have been using it for many years! Yes, it not only moisturizing from the oils in it. It's the water, humectants, and beeswax in it too. Yes, you understood the science correctly. Yes, you must give it a try! I think you will love it! :)

[MusicalSpoons]

Gee, what a discussion. I think it must be corrected that when we write oil, we mean pure oil. No silicone blends, no oil products, no mineral oils, just a product that has only oil or a few oils in INCI. It was this issue that interested me. That's what I wrote earlier.

Just checked your join date, so maybe you've not encountered this kind of discussion/denial of facts with the same member before. I usually try not to get drawn in but sometimes I fail :oops: especially when other people are involved who do want to learn.

But basically yes, as you've seen by now, you're correct :thumbsup:

[DropStitches]

Just checked your join date, so maybe you've not encountered this kind of discussion/denial of facts with the same member before. I usually try not to get drawn in but sometimes I fail :oops: especially when other people are involved who do want to learn.

But basically yes, as you've seen by now, you're correct :thumbsup:

Thanks, MusicalSpoons, for helping to disseminate information (despite the frustrating counterfactual narrative going on in the background!) - I find all this hair science stuff really interesting, and I value those with expertise sharing it.

[Dark40]

Gees, all I was just talking about pure oil instead of this product, and it is a scientific fact that pure oil IS moisturizing to the hair and scalp. As long as I've been doing hair for the last 42 years I've always knew that pure oil IS moisturizing to the hair and scalp. What's the sense in doing hot oil treatments then if pure oil isn't moisturizing? The reason why you do hot oil treatments IS to add moisture to the hair and scalp, don't you? Oil may not moisturize your hair texture or type but it moisturizes mine.

[ynne]

Some disagreement might stem from the division of "moisturizing products" and "hydrating products" in skin care terminology? (link (https://www.dermstore.com/blog/hydrating-vs-moisturizing/), link (https://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/skin-care/a33983114/do-oils-hydrate-or-moisturize-skin/), link (https://beniceessentials.com/moisture-vs-hydration-which-does-my-hair-need/)) In that context, "moisturizing" can stand for "helping retain moisture". It doesn't change the fact that oil can't be used in place of water, but I thought it's relevant here. :)

[MusicalSpoons]

Some disagreement might stem from the division of "moisturizing products" and "hydrating products" in skin care terminology? (link (https://www.dermstore.com/blog/hydrating-vs-moisturizing/), link (https://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/skin-care/a33983114/do-oils-hydrate-or-moisturize-skin/), link (https://beniceessentials.com/moisture-vs-hydration-which-does-my-hair-need/)) In that context, "moisturizing" can stand for "helping retain moisture". It doesn't change the fact that oil can't be used in place of water, but I thought it's relevant here. :)

Good links, thanks for those. The semantics probably don't ultimately matter as long as we understand the fundamental concepts. Most of us appear to have understood :)


This is my last attempt at trying to break it down:

Oil alone does not transform dry hair into moisturised hair, but they do usually play a part in retaining moisture.

Oil on the scalp can rightly be described as nourishing it, because skin is alive and the fatty acids can help with the health and condition of the scalp - although dehydrated skin needs hydration (water) just like dry hair does, with oil helping to keep it in after it's been hydrated. It can also help condition the hair shaft, with fatty acids plating a role and the oil giving the hair lubrication and flexibility and shine. (Which I feel like I'm almost parroting from SHB but there we are.)

Lotions and creams can rightly be classed as moisturising because they are designed to both hydrate and help to keep that hydration in; the same with conditioner.

Oils have a place in a moisturising routine, but if used alone on dry/dehydrated skin and hair, they're more likely to trap moisture out so they definitely won't be moisturising in that context, in any sense of the word.

[Carrie's hair]

Just checked your join date, so maybe you've not encountered this kind of discussion/denial of facts with the same member before. I usually try not to get drawn in but sometimes I fail :oops: especially when other people are involved who do want to learn.

But basically yes, as you've seen by now, you're correct :thumbsup:
I just usually see people talking very softly here. In the Fb groups I'm in, if I showed my hair most of them would write what's wrong with my hair and what to fix. Nobody criticizes here. Everyone praises. They are looking for pluses. That's why I was a little scared that I had caused an unnecessary war.

[GordonMurphella]

Gees, all I was just talking about pure oil instead of this product, and it is a scientific fact that pure oil IS moisturizing to the hair and scalp. As long as I've been doing hair for the last 42 years I've always knew that pure oil IS moisturizing to the hair and scalp. What's the sense in doing hot oil treatments then if pure oil isn't moisturizing? The reason why you do hot oil treatments IS to add moisture to the hair and scalp, don't you? Oil may not moisturize your hair texture or type but it moisturizes mine.

Source for this "scientific fact" seems to be lacking. But I guess you do you.

[GordonMurphella]

Good links, thanks for those. The semantics probably don't ultimately matter as long as we understand the fundamental concepts. Most of us appear to have understood :)


This is my last attempt at trying to break it down:

Oil alone does not transform dry hair into moisturised hair, but they do usually play a part in retaining moisture.

Oil on the scalp can rightly be described as nourishing it, because skin is alive and the fatty acids can help with the health and condition of the scalp - although dehydrated skin needs hydration (water) just like dry hair does, with oil helping to keep it in after it's been hydrated. It can also help condition the hair shaft, with fatty acids plating a role and the oil giving the hair lubrication and flexibility and shine. (Which I feel like I'm almost parroting from SHB but there we are.)

Lotions and creams can rightly be classed as moisturising because they are designed to both hydrate and help to keep that hydration in; the same with conditioner.

Oils have a place in a moisturising routine, but if used alone on dry/dehydrated skin and hair, they're more likely to trap moisture out so they definitely won't be moisturising in that context, in any sense of the word.

Excellent, excellent post.

[Jane99]

It’s like when you have salad dressing in a bottle and all the oil floats to the top and all the water is underneath it, the oil seals the water into the bottom of the bottle. That’s like what oil does to hair, it keeps the water sealed inside the hair and doesn’t let it get out as easy. That’s why it’s used to help keep hair moisturized. Oil on it’s own helps to keep hair lubricated like engine oil keeps the parts from sticking to each other and wearing out. So still beneficial.

[florenonite]

Some disagreement might stem from the division of "moisturizing products" and "hydrating products" in skin care terminology? (link (https://www.dermstore.com/blog/hydrating-vs-moisturizing/), link (https://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/skin-care/a33983114/do-oils-hydrate-or-moisturize-skin/), link (https://beniceessentials.com/moisture-vs-hydration-which-does-my-hair-need/)) In that context, "moisturizing" can stand for "helping retain moisture". It doesn't change the fact that oil can't be used in place of water, but I thought it's relevant here. :)

Oh, that's interesting - and also very confusing, because as those links explain a "moisturising" product seals in moisture without necessarily adding any moisture!


I just usually see people talking very softly here. In the Fb groups I'm in, if I showed my hair most of them would write what's wrong with my hair and what to fix. Nobody criticizes here. Everyone praises. They are looking for pluses. That's why I was a little scared that I had caused an unnecessary war.

Don't worry about it! It's good to clear things up and make sure people understand the science :)

[enting]

Random question: Do we have a thread for what color hairtoys look good on certain hair colors?

I was thinking that I don't really know what colors look good against my hair and it would be useful to browse pictures of people with similarly colored hair to mine wearing hairtoys of various colors.

[TatsuOni]

Random question: Do we have a thread for what color hairtoys look good on certain hair colors?

I was thinking that I don't really know what colors look good against my hair and it would be useful to browse pictures of people with similarly colored hair to mine wearing hairtoys of various colors.

I have no memory of seeing such a thread...

[AmaryllisRed]

Random question: Do we have a thread for what color hairtoys look good on certain hair colors?

I was thinking that I don't really know what colors look good against my hair and it would be useful to browse pictures of people with similarly colored hair to mine wearing hairtoys of various colors.

I had this question a while back and what I ended up doing is just finding people whose hair was similar to mine and going to their albums and observing what I thought looked best on them.

[cat11]

I had this question a while back and what I ended up doing is just finding people whose hair was similar to mine and going to their albums and observing what I thought looked best on them.

Yes it helps to find a hair twin (or triplet or quadruplet if you can!), I second this!

Looking through the various hair toy makers threads can help you find a lot of pics of different colors too.

[Carrie's hair]

enting I think brown hair has a lot of choice. In principle, everything should fit. Greens, browns, beige, subdued pink...

[lapushka]

Oh gosh, I just have bought hair accessories willy nilly so far. If *I* like the color, my hair just has to deal with it. Hahahaha! :lol:

[ynne]

Oh, that's interesting - and also very confusing, because as those links explain a "moisturising" product seals in moisture without necessarily adding any moisture!
It is confusing for sure! I wouldn't know what to expect from these products, based on their names alone. But it could explain why the "moisturizing" term gets used in articles about oils, outside of LHC. And since they don't add the definition each time or explain its use, it might be giving people unrealistic expectations / misunderstanding of how to use them in their haircare. :/


Random question: Do we have a thread for what color hairtoys look good on certain hair colors?

I was thinking that I don't really know what colors look good against my hair and it would be useful to browse pictures of people with similarly colored hair to mine wearing hairtoys of various colors.
That would be a fun photo thread! Maybe just encouraging people to post their favorite color combinations. :)

[neko_kawaii]

Random question: Do we have a thread for what color hairtoys look good on certain hair colors?

I was thinking that I don't really know what colors look good against my hair and it would be useful to browse pictures of people with similarly colored hair to mine wearing hairtoys of various colors.

Short of finding a hair twin as suggested, a good resource for seeing a wide number of hairtoys in a variety of hair colors, the WEO thread (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=22367) should be useful.

[Jane99]

This question *might* deserve it’s own thread but I’ll post here anyways.
I noticed a shed hair today with the root intact that looked like it had two hairs coming out of it- one baby hair maybe 2 inches long and a regular long hair. Has anyone else noticed anything like this? And it this just a mutant hair or something that happens regularly?

[GoddesJourney]

This question *might* deserve it’s own thread but I’ll post here anyways.
I noticed a shed hair today with the root intact that looked like it had two hairs coming out of it- one baby hair maybe 2 inches long and a regular long hair. Has anyone else noticed anything like this? And it this just a mutant hair or something that happens regularly?

When we did the close up of hair density thread, it became apparent that two or three hairs in a follicle is pretty normal for a lot of people. People get this in other regions as well, not just the head.

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=151821

[Lady Stardust]

Random question: Do we have a thread for what color hairtoys look good on certain hair colors?

I was thinking that I don't really know what colors look good against my hair and it would be useful to browse pictures of people with similarly colored hair to mine wearing hairtoys of various colors.

I remember this being discussed somewhere once, and the suggestion was made to use colouring pencils as a cheap way of finding out what looks good :)

Do you have any idea whether you have warm or cool colouring? There is a lot of information around about colour palettes (not necessarily on this site but on the internet). It depends whether you want colours to blend or stand out. Blendy colours are next to each other on the colour wheel, and contrasting colours are opposite.

[Dark40]

Like you've said, oil may sit on top of your hair but it doesn't sit on top of mine. Because, I know for a fact when I apply just pure oil and brush it through my hair and scalp I can see that my hair and scalp is moisturized, and it has lots of shine to it. That means it is moisturized. That's the point. Now, I have proof that oils are moisturizing by this video of this African-American person:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8t_CFhN7Gw

Like I've said before above, *Your hair type may not accept pure oil as a moisturizer,* but my hair type does. I have naturally wavy/curly hair. That kind of hair takes pure oil well better than fine/thin hair.

[florenonite]

Like you've said, oil may sit on top of your hair but it doesn't sit on top of mine. Because, I know for a fact when I apply just pure oil and brush it through my hair and scalp I can see that my hair and scalp is moisturized, and it has lots of shine to it. That means it is moisturized. That's the point. Now, I have proof that oils are moisturizing by this video of this African-American person:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8t_CFhN7Gw

Like I've said before above, *Your hair type may not accept pure oil as a moisturizer,* but my hair type does. I have naturally wavy/curly hair. That kind of hair takes pure oil well better than fine/thin hair.

It has nothing to do with hair type. It has to do with basic science. Oil CANNOT moisturise because oil DOES NOT CONTAIN moisture. Yes, it can be absorbed into the hair shaft and yes, it can make hair supple and soft, but it absolutely, one hundred per cent, cannot put water in your hair because it does not contain any water.

Nightshade has a great article (https://nightblooming.com/2016/03/16/faq-which-of-your-oils-is-the-most-moisturizing/) about this that explains it:


There’s a myth out there that oils are moisturizing, when in reality they aren’t in the most true sense of the word. What they do is impart important lipids and fatty acids, which add softness and flexibility to the hair shaft. Oils are also emollients, more specifically, occlusives, which form a thin, moisture-locking barrier atop the skin and hair cells that reduces the evaporation of moisture. If your hair is very dry oiling might help a bit by replenishing critical fatty acids and by helping it keep whatever small amount of moisture it has inside of it, but it cannot actually moisturize the hair on its own.

[Carrie's hair]

Like you've said, oil may sit on top of your hair but it doesn't sit on top of mine. Because, I know for a fact when I apply just pure oil and brush it through my hair and scalp I can see that my hair and scalp is moisturized, and it has lots of shine to it. That means it is moisturized. That's the point. Now, I have proof that oils are moisturizing by this video of this African-American person:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8t_CFhN7Gw

Like I've said before above, *Your hair type may not accept pure oil as a moisturizer,* but my hair type does. I have naturally wavy/curly hair. That kind of hair takes pure oil well better than fine/thin hair.
I'm sorry, but anyone can make a video like this. This girl is no authority on science. It is based on what the manufacturer wrote on the packaging. It's like the information that the shampoo will help you grow beautiful hair. No. Shampoo won't do that. It is too short on the head and often there are no ingredients to aid growth.
Soooo, the oil helps to KEEP your hair hydrated. :eyebrows:

[Jane99]

When we did the close up of hair density thread, it became apparent that two or three hairs in a follicle is pretty normal for a lot of people. People get this in other regions as well, not just the head.

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=151821

Interesting! For sure, I have noticed multiple hairs coming out of a, say, arm or leg hair follicle but hadn’t thought it would happen on my head too. Thanks for sharing :)

[GordonMurphella]

I'm sorry, but anyone can make a video like this. This girl is no authority on science. It is based on what the manufacturer wrote on the packaging. It's like the information that the shampoo will help you grow beautiful hair. No. Shampoo won't do that. It is too short on the head and often there are no ingredients to aid growth.
Soooo, the oil helps to KEEP your hair hydrated. :eyebrows:

So. Much. This. I'm sorry, but all I can think of is that older tv commercial "I'm a french model"

Anyone can make a video. Anyone can claim anything.

Anyway, I think it's time for me to take a deep breath, and learn to nod and smile.

[Dark40]

I'm sorry, but anyone can make a video like this. This girl is no authority on science. It is based on what the manufacturer wrote on the packaging. It's like the information that the shampoo will help you grow beautiful hair. No. Shampoo won't do that. It is too short on the head and often there are no ingredients to aid growth.
Soooo, the oil helps to KEEP your hair hydrated. :eyebrows:

I'm sorry anyone can post misleading information on the web as well. No isn't no authority on science, and this video isn't about any shampoo. It's about 2 oils that is moisturizing to her skin. She never talked about any growth shampoo whatsoever. I don't never believe what it posted on the internet on google either. All the girl in the video was saying that the jojoba oil is what makes her hair grow not no growth shampoo, and her hair was not short on her head. She had a BIG bun on top of her head. So, her hair was not short, and you can say oils "*hydrate* you hair but let me inform you.....*hydrating* and "*moisturizing* is the same thing. This is what I've said in a earlier post. You don't just moisturize your hair with just plain water. That's not the only thing that moisturizes the hair. I know what makes my hair look and feel moisturized. Even conditioner moisturizes the hair as well.

[florenonite]

I'm sorry anyone can post misleading information on the web as well. No isn't no authority on science, and this video isn't about any shampoo. It's about 2 oils that is moisturizing to her skin. She never talked about any growth shampoo whatsoever. I don't never believe what it posted on the internet on google either. All the girl in the video was saying that the jojoba oil is what makes her hair grow not no growth shampoo, and her hair was not short on her head. She had a BIG bun on top of her head. So, her hair was not short, and you can say oils "*hydrate* you hair but let me inform you.....*hydrating* and "*moisturizing* is the same thing. This is what I've said in a earlier post. You don't just moisturize your hair with just plain water. That's not the only thing that moisturizes the hair. I know what makes my hair look and feel moisturized. Even conditioner moisturizes the hair as well.

Conditioner moisturises the hair because conditioner CONTAINS WATER. Oil does not. Even solid conditioner is used on wet hair and is dampened by the shower stream.

And, yes, hydrating and moisturising ARE the same thing. Carrie's hair didn't say otherwise, just that oil can KEEP moisture in hair (or keep hair hydrated) but it does not ADD that. Shine and growth are irrelevant. I can take a photo of my hair with my camera flash on and it's shinier, but did the light make my hair more moisturised? Of course not. Hair growth is a product of a lot of different things, including genetics, diet, environment, overall health, and, yes, what you put on your hair, which includes but is not limited to products that moisturise.

No one's saying that oils don't have benefits. No one's saying it cannot help MAINTAIN moisture levels in your hair. But it does not ADD moisture because it is hydrophobic, meaning it literally repels water, down at the molecular level. How can something that repels water ADD water? It can't.

[Nightshade]

Shine is simply a result of how your hair reflects light. It has much more to do with how tight your cuticle is than anything else--the tighter the cuticle, the better light reflects off it because it's closer to a mirror-finish.

Oils, to the surprise of nobody, create shine, not because of moisture, but because of the way light reflects off of it. Oiling your hair can make it lay more uniform and can fill in the tiny imperfections in the cuticle, which creates a better surface for light to reflect from.

[Amenahh]

Does anyone have recommendations for buns that don't lay very flat? :flower:
I want some volume from the side. My hair is waist length.

[enting]

Does anyone have recommendations for buns that don't lay very flat? :flower:
I want some volume from the side. My hair is waist length.

Bee butt buns are good for standing out. I personally usually try for buns that *do* lay very flat so I'm trying to think of what I avoid. Nautilus buns done around slightly fewer fingers than usual and winding the length more times around the "stem" of the bun. Fan buns have a lot of volume but I usually see them done high up on the head, I don't know if that's something that appeals to you or if it would work placed farther down. If I think of anything else I'll come back and post again.

[Amenahh]

Thanks enting! :)

[Bri-Chan]

Does someone sleep with a bun? Which one is more comfortable?

[Bonsai]

I do it - for me it's the most comfortable, but...I have silk cup on my bun (like extra protection). If I had cup on my all head I always woke up without it, so I keep it only on bun.

Usually I made quick cinnamon bun

[florenonite]

Does someone sleep with a bun? Which one is more comfortable?

I'll do a bun or a braid. I sleep with it loose sometimes, too, but that's just laziness and usually comes back to bite me when my cat starts walking over it in the night :p

Mostly which one I choose is down to laziness. If I wore a braid during the day, I'll leave it in at night, though between about waist and hip it starts to get too long and gets pinned when I roll over in bed. Buns are definitely more comfortable (I do a kind of weird hybrid of LWB and Gibraltar bun high on the crown of my head and hold it with some solid pins) and faster to do if my hair isn't already in a braid.

[Siv]

Does someone sleep with a bun? Which one is more comfortable?


I do it - for me it's the most comfortable, but...I have silk cup on my bun (like extra protection). If I had cup on my all head I always woke up without it, so I keep it only on bun.

Usually I made quick cinnamon bun


I'll do a bun or a braid. I sleep with it loose sometimes, too, but that's just laziness and usually comes back to bite me when my cat starts walking over it in the night :p

I bun; a braid or loose will either strangle me during the night or get eaten by my pup. I have a silk cap that I have tried to get to stay on for years but have thus far been unsuccessful, unfortunately. I use a weird fork-/claw-clip thingy for a cinnabun.

[Dark40]

Does someone sleep with a bun? Which one is more comfortable?

I wear a bun to sleep all of the time but it's mostly a loose or a half-bun in a scrunchie. I also do sleep on a satin pillowcase.

[MusicalSpoons]

Does someone sleep with a bun? Which one is more comfortable?

Yes, always unless my hair is drying. I sleep on my side so most of them are equally comfortable, but held vertically is best for me. The Nessa bun is designed to be held vertically, but I find almost any bun can be rotated to work that way. I personally prefer using a short, wide fork to secure the bun just because it's less likely to be worked loose overnight.

[I do also sleep on a satin pillowcase, with a loose satin cap. You'd think my hair would be in pristine condition with all that :lol: but alas not.]

[Bri-Chan]

Thank you all for the answers! How do you secure the bun?

[Siv]

I bun; a braid or loose will either strangle me during the night or get eaten by my pup. I have a silk cap that I have tried to get to stay on for years but have thus far been unsuccessful, unfortunately. I use a weird fork-/claw-clip thingy for a cinnabun.


Thank you all for the answers! How do you secure the bun?

Hah, coincidentally I actually took a pic of it just recently for the WEO challenge

https://i.imgur.com/08YGowNm.jpg

[cat11]

Piping in on the buns with claw clips thing, you can also do it with 1 on each side (I actually am wearing my hair like that now.) Or you can do a twist, hold it straight up, clip the twist (like a peacock twist.) and then twist or braid the remaining hair and wrap it around the clip. You might need to use another small pin for the ends if you do it the latter way.

[knobbly]

Does someone sleep with a bun? Which one is more comfortable?

I do a LWB topknot held with a Quattro fork at night, under a satin-lined beanie. Full disclosure, I do usually have to remake it in the middle of the night. In the summer I use spin pins and no beanie, since they hold better (but take longer when I'm tired.)

[Bri-Chan]

Hah, coincidentally I actually took a pic of it just recently for the WEO challenge

https://i.imgur.com/08YGowNm.jpg


Piping in on the buns with claw clips thing, you can also do it with 1 on each side (I actually am wearing my hair like that now.) Or you can do a twist, hold it straight up, clip the twist (like a peacock twist.) and then twist or braid the remaining hair and wrap it around the clip. You might need to use another small pin for the ends if you do it the latter way.
I'll definitely try with caw clips!

I do a LWB topknot held with a Quattro fork at night, under a satin-lined beanie. Full disclosure, I do usually have to remake it in the middle of the night. In the summer I use spin pins and no beanie, since they hold better (but take longer when I'm tired.)
The satin beanie seems more popular than I thought.. I should buy one.

[Zesty]

Does someone sleep with a bun? Which one is more comfortable?

I sometimes do, I just do a cinnamon bun blob right on top of my head/slightly towards my front hairline with two smallish claw clips (I sleep on my back and both sides so it has to be completely out of the way). I use a satin pillowcase always.

[HaMalka]

For people who use sugar scrubs to exfoliate their scalp:

Do you do it before or after or instead of shampooing?

Do you ever end up with sticky hair?

[blackgothicdoll]

For people who use sugar scrubs to exfoliate their scalp:

Do you do it before or after or instead of shampooing?

Do you ever end up with sticky hair?

Before shampooing. Never had sticky hair after washing.

[Siv]

This one is mostly for Americans, I think:

What does "natural hair" mean in English?

I see a lot of times it seems to mean kinky or curly hair being worn kinky or curly and NOT straight. Mostly African American hair, but some curlies from other ethnicities too. That's my understanding, at least? Over here in Sweden "natural hair" mostly refers to organic haircare, I think, so I'm a bit confused on what natural hair means in an international context. Organic is a regulated term as well, so "natural" hair can mean less chemical, more nature-friendly etc. without necessarily being organic. What do you call "natural" "not-quite-organic" haircare if natural haircare mostly refers to curly hair??

So confused haha :confused:

[Totohoy]

This one is mostly for Americans, I think:

What does "natural hair" mean in English?

I see a lot of times it seems to mean kinky or curly hair being worn kinky or curly and NOT straight. Mostly African American hair, but some curlies from other ethnicities too. That's my understanding, at least? Over here in Sweden "natural hair" mostly refers to organic haircare, I think, so I'm a bit confused on what natural hair means in an international context. Organic is a regulated term as well, so "natural" hair can mean less chemical, more nature-friendly etc. without necessarily being organic. What do you call "natural" "not-quite-organic" haircare if natural haircare mostly refers to curly hair??

So confused haha :confused:

To my understanding (as another Swede, mind you) "natural hair" most often refers to hair that has not been chemically relaxed, meaning straight-permed :-) Though I'm sure that wearing your hair "natural" may very well entail more than just that, so don't take my word for it.

"Natural ingredients" haircare may yield better search results?

[Ylva]

This one is mostly for Americans, I think:

What does "natural hair" mean in English?

I see a lot of times it seems to mean kinky or curly hair being worn kinky or curly and NOT straight. Mostly African American hair, but some curlies from other ethnicities too. That's my understanding, at least? Over here in Sweden "natural hair" mostly refers to organic haircare, I think, so I'm a bit confused on what natural hair means in an international context. Organic is a regulated term as well, so "natural" hair can mean less chemical, more nature-friendly etc. without necessarily being organic. What do you call "natural" "not-quite-organic" haircare if natural haircare mostly refers to curly hair??

So confused haha :confused:

Indeed, it's confusing. To me, the primary meaning of "natural hair" is virgin hair, but indeed, I'd feel wary about using the term about myself in the US because of the exact reason that you wrote. I would, however, prefer to say natural hair instead of virgin hair, as 'natural' sounds like a much more neutral expression to me, and I think it's also the most accurate description. When I first used the term "virgin hair" in the presence of my partner, he didn't understand what I meant with it.

A question to people with type 4 hair: If you hear a person with hair type other than curly/coily talking about natural hair in reference to themselves, do you feel offended or do you simply assume they talk about their own hair in its natural, unprocessed form? I would imagine that LHC people would assume the latter, at least, but what do you think the general opinion might be?

[Bri-Chan]

This one is mostly for Americans, I think:

What does "natural hair" mean in English?

I see a lot of times it seems to mean kinky or curly hair being worn kinky or curly and NOT straight. Mostly African American hair, but some curlies from other ethnicities too. That's my understanding, at least? Over here in Sweden "natural hair" mostly refers to organic haircare, I think, so I'm a bit confused on what natural hair means in an international context. Organic is a regulated term as well, so "natural" hair can mean less chemical, more nature-friendly etc. without necessarily being organic. What do you call "natural" "not-quite-organic" haircare if natural haircare mostly refers to curly hair??

So confused haha :confused:

I'm not American but I do follow several curly American influencers. As I have understood, "natural hair" refers to hair in its natural state, especially curly, because curly people has/had the tendency, because of society pressures, to straight their hair, with heat or permanent treatments. It has nothing to do with organic hair care, it's more about wearing your textured hair as it is.

In my own language "natural hair" means virgin hair more or less. Maybe also in its own state, without any styling tool.

[florenonite]

This one is mostly for Americans, I think:

What does "natural hair" mean in English?

I see a lot of times it seems to mean kinky or curly hair being worn kinky or curly and NOT straight. Mostly African American hair, but some curlies from other ethnicities too. That's my understanding, at least? Over here in Sweden "natural hair" mostly refers to organic haircare, I think, so I'm a bit confused on what natural hair means in an international context. Organic is a regulated term as well, so "natural" hair can mean less chemical, more nature-friendly etc. without necessarily being organic. What do you call "natural" "not-quite-organic" haircare if natural haircare mostly refers to curly hair??

So confused haha :confused:

In English, American English in particular, "natural hair" often refers to curly hair in its natural state, particularly for Black folk who have historically faced pressures to straighten/relax their hair and make it behave more like typical European hair. So natural hair is often contrasted with chemically relaxed hair.

I would use the phrase "natural haircare" to refer to, say, products with essential oils instead of fragrance oils.

[blackgothicdoll]

This one is mostly for Americans, I think:

What does "natural hair" mean in English?

I see a lot of times it seems to mean kinky or curly hair being worn kinky or curly and NOT straight. Mostly African American hair, but some curlies from other ethnicities too. That's my understanding, at least? Over here in Sweden "natural hair" mostly refers to organic haircare, I think, so I'm a bit confused on what natural hair means in an international context. Organic is a regulated term as well, so "natural" hair can mean less chemical, more nature-friendly etc. without necessarily being organic. What do you call "natural" "not-quite-organic" haircare if natural haircare mostly refers to curly hair??

So confused haha :confused:

I think the term 'natural hair' tending to mean curly/kinky is a result of the rather viral 'natural hair movement' - once again associating this term with wearing curly hair in its natural state, without heat, relaxers, extensions, etc. I personally never used the term 'natural hair' outside of referring to black hair that has not been altered, but I think other places use the term 'natural hair care' to refer to just that - organic(ish) products. So in summary, they can be used interchangeably, but there is a lot of confusion (at least for me) when it's done that way - still, I can typically pick up on context clues and figure out which one someone is talking about.

[blackgothicdoll]

A question to people with type 4 hair: If you hear a person with hair type other than curly/coily talking about natural hair in reference to themselves, do you feel offended or do you simply assume they talk about their own hair in its natural, unprocessed form? I would imagine that LHC people would assume the latter, at least, but what do you think the general opinion might be?

I imagine they're just talking about their hair as virgin, or unprocessed. Doesn't give me any sort of emotional reaction whatsoever.

[Jane99]

Definitely, it depends on context, and the terms can be used interchangeably. I believe my signature says something about natural haircare but I have type 1 hair and outside of an unwanted salon visit have never straightened my hair in my life or felt the need to but that would be totally irrelevant to someone who is working with their curly hair. I just have distrust for the consumer market that seems to try to put some type of poison in everything.

[knobbly]

This one is mostly for Americans, I think:

What does "natural hair" mean in English?

I see a lot of times it seems to mean kinky or curly hair being worn kinky or curly and NOT straight. Mostly African American hair, but some curlies from other ethnicities too. That's my understanding, at least? Over here in Sweden "natural hair" mostly refers to organic haircare, I think, so I'm a bit confused on what natural hair means in an international context. Organic is a regulated term as well, so "natural" hair can mean less chemical, more nature-friendly etc. without necessarily being organic. What do you call "natural" "not-quite-organic" haircare if natural haircare mostly refers to curly hair??

So confused haha :confused:

“Natural hair” is term that originated in the Black community. Even curly folks who are non-Black honestly shouldn’t use it as it’s cultural appropriation.

It means curly, coily, or kinky hair that hasn’t been chemically relaxed.

“Natural haircare” is a more neutral term that can be used by anyone and usually refers to organic products, sulfate and silicone free, etc.

[knobbly]

Double post, sorry!

[Ylva]

I imagine they're just talking about their hair as virgin, or unprocessed. Doesn't give me any sort of emotional reaction whatsoever.

Thank you for your reply!


“Natural hair” is term that originated in the Black community. Even curly folks who are non-Black honestly shouldn’t use it as it’s cultural appropriation.

It's sometimes difficult to read sarcasm, so I will ask for clarity. Was this a serious statement?

[Bonsai]

“Natural hair” is term that originated in the Black community. Even curly folks who are non-Black honestly shouldn’t use it as it’s cultural appropriation.

It means curly, coily, or kinky hair that hasn’t been chemically relaxed.

“Natural haircare” is a more neutral term that can be used by anyone and usually refers to organic products, sulfate and silicone free, etc.

I'm sorry, but... no

I'm from definitely white country (in my country I meet only one black family) and we use "natural hair" if we speak... well.. about natural, virgin hair. If black people say something it's not always mean only they can say that. Before I came here I never heard about "virgin hair".

I'm really surprise with all this conversation - earlier I never thought anyone can have problem with something what I use almost 40 years. Sometimes political correctness can go too far ... and that's wrong too

[knobbly]

Thank you for your reply!



It's sometimes difficult to read sarcasm, so I will ask for clarity. Was this a serious statement?

Yep, 100% serious

[Ylva]

I'm all for expressing identity through language, but as a linguist, I have a big issue with dubbing a neutral, commonly used word cultural appropriation as it interferes with clarity of language. Not everything needs to be political.

The definition of 'natural' is "existing in or derived from nature; not made or caused by humankind". Therefore, I think the absolute primary meaning of natural hair is "hair that's not been permanently altered". In my opinion, a neutral and perfectly descriptive expression like this cannot be cultural appropriation.

Like I mentioned above, my partner had no idea what "virgin hair" meant when I used that expression with him. The most important thing is to speak in a way that people understand easily. And, if anything, the word 'virgin' carries connotations that I wouldn't necessarily want to associate with my hair or myself as a whole as I find the idea behind it rather obsolete.

[knobbly]

Well regardless of your feelings about it, it’s a thing and I didn’t make it up.

Here are some resources if you are interested in reading more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hair_movement

https://www.glamour.com/story/black-hair-offensive-timeline

http://www.afrostateofmind.com/sarah-your-natural-hair-aint-like-mine-and-thats-ok/

[Ylva]

Well regardless of your feelings about it, it’s a thing and I didn’t make it up.

Here are some resources if you are interested in reading more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hair_movement

https://www.glamour.com/story/black-hair-offensive-timeline

http://www.afrostateofmind.com/sarah-your-natural-hair-aint-like-mine-and-thats-ok/

The cause of my disagreeing with you is not that I don't understand the movement or know of its existence, but the sound reasons provided in my previous post.

[Lucy McLucyFace]

I've had this confusion myself some years ago when I got into hair care. Because most internet content is in English I looked up things related to "natural hair" and all I got were tips for people with kinky hair which made me very confused :confused:

At the time I even believed that only African-Americans care about hair care in the US. Only later did I learn that it's both a cultural thing in the US to call unaltered kinky hair "natural hair" and other types of hair get called "virgin hair" (where I'm from we use both terms) and also African-Americans pay a special type of attention to hair care because products in the west are not formulated for kinky hair so they need a lot of home remedies and techniques to give their hair what it needs.

[MusicalSpoons]

“Natural hair” is term that originated in the Black community. Even curly folks who are non-Black honestly shouldn’t use it as it’s cultural appropriation.

It means curly, coily, or kinky hair that hasn’t been chemically relaxed.

“Natural haircare” is a more neutral term that can be used by anyone and usually refers to organic products, sulfate and silicone free, etc.

Did it, though? The movement certainly did and I would absolutely hate to accidentally appropriate anything, but the simple term 'natural hair' without any other context could have any number of different meanings. E.g. natural vs fake/synthetic hair used as extensions, natural texture vs styled (regardless of heat used or not), chemically processed vs unprocessed (including colour, not just texture).

If the context is very clearly referring to Black people and the natural hair movement - e.g. when discussing discrimination, or transitioning between relaxed and natural kinky or coily hair - then fair enough. But to say only Black people are allowed to use that particular phrase seems somewhat OTT. As far as I know it's not like a group of people reclaiming a slur, or that the phrase started off neutral then evolved to mean something specific. It still carries different connotations based on the context, although the fundamental meaning of 'in its natural state' is of course unchanged.

Then again I'm not American, and I also had never come across the phrase 'virgin hair' before. If in America the phrase 'natural hair' really has come to mean only 'natural type 3 or 4 hair on a Black person' then I'll be happy to stand corrected, but that still wouldn't automatically change the meaning of the phrase in English outside of America.

[SleepyTangles]

In the Italian longhair community "capelli naturali" (Natural hair/virgin hair) was used as our equivalent of "virgin hair" even before 2009, before the social media's big boom made us acquainted with American beauty terminology.

Now I hear many young youtubers and bloggers referring to untreated, unaltered hair as "capello vergine", but it's a bit of a stretch within Italian language.

[baanoo]

I’m an American and in my experience natural hair refers to non-chemically straightened or permed curly/coily hair and natural haircare refers to all the organic/organic-ish products and methods.

[cat11]

I’m an American and in my experience natural hair refers to non-chemically straightened or permed curly/coily hair and natural haircare refers to all the organic/organic-ish products and methods.

Yes. In American stores saying "for natural hair" has become the politically correct way to say product is designed for Black hair. It annoys me because as a shopper who buys a lot of this products I know what it means, buts its misleading, and the products are often good for anyone with dry or curly hair that likes moisture.

[blackgothicdoll]

I think there is conflation between two terms; Natural Hair Movement and 'natural hair'. I also don't believe that using the term is cultural appropriation, and it does bother me a bit when people say that white people with curly hair can't participate in the natural hair movement. It is a bit of a loaded topic which can easily go off the rails, so I'd rather not get too far into that, but my general point here, for the specific question; re: Can I call my hair natural if it's virgin but not afro-textured, yes, if that's how you qualify that trait.

It can/will cause misunderstandings - but that's just how language is, it's funny that way.

Politically correct is another term that's grossly misused, but again, that's another discussion for another day. I'm sorry if it frustrates people that looking for hair products that are 'natural' results in finding hair products for kinky hair, but that's mainly because it has been difficult if not impossible in the past for people with my type of hair to find products that are actually good for our hair, or not intended to straighten or 'tame' it in some way for another. It made something that was intuitive for other hair types a little easier for people who wanted to step away from relaxers or extensions.

In summary, 'natural' is vague enough of a word that it can be applied differently in multiple different contexts. No one is doing anyone injustice by using it, in my humble opinion.

[Bri-Chan]

In the Italian longhair community "capelli naturali" (Natural hair/virgin hair) was used as our equivalent of "virgin hair" even before 2009, before the social media's big boom made us acquainted with American beauty terminology.

Now I hear many young youtubers and bloggers referring to untreated, unaltered hair as "capello vergine", but it's a bit of a stretch within Italian language.

I think "virgin hair" but I say "capelli naturali" because "capelli vergini" sounds so weird.

[Bri-Chan]

To everyone that suggested me a cinnamon bun: it's super comfortable! I'm securing it with an invisibubble, can it be damaging or can I keep using it that way?

[SleepyTangles]

To everyone that suggested me a cinnamon bun: it's super comfortable! I'm securing it with an invisibubble, can it be damaging or can I keep using it that way?

On me it's not damaging at all! Still, if you can switch the placement every few days it helps the weight getting distributed more evenly. My hair is currently too short for very high or very low buns, so I don't have much choice.

[Siv]

Thanks to everyone who pitched in on the "natural hair"-question and sorry for taking awhile to reply :flower:

[Carrie's hair]

Is there any possibility to financially support this forum? Can I put money somewhere to maintain servers etc.?

[Siv]

Is there any possibility to financially support this forum? Can I put money somewhere to maintain servers etc.?

On the desktop website there's a "Donate" button right above the search bar / right below the log in / logout button :)

[Carrie's hair]

Ooh, thank you so much for your help.

[Siv]

No problem :)

[Bri-Chan]

On me it's not damaging at all! Still, if you can switch the placement every few days it helps the weight getting distributed more evenly. My hair is currently too short for very high or very low buns, so I don't have much choice.

Oh it's a good idea!

[Dark40]

Hi all!

I'm in really need for support here. This morning as I was going to take my shower as wash my hair every morning or every time I get ready to wash my hair my mom always has this disgusted look and tone of voice saying, "Oh my goodness." "You're washing that hair again." She said this morning since we are at home quarantining I don't need to wash it everyday but I feel that I really need to. Because, I work out 3 times a week, and I've learned that it I wait 5 days or longer to wash my hair starts to shed in big clumps! I loose more hair than I do if I was washing in on a daily basis, and she also said, "I don't ever remember you washing your hair that often when you were going to school and work," and I told her, "Well, I did." I would get in the shower and wash my hair every single day when I was both working, in high school, and in college.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Hi all!

I'm in really need for support here. This morning as I was going to take my shower as wash my hair every morning or every time I get ready to wash my hair my mom always has this disgusted look and tone of voice saying, "Oh my goodness." "You're washing that hair again." She said this morning since we are at home quarantining I don't need to wash it everyday but I feel that I really need to. Because, I work out 3 times a week, and I've learned that it I wait 5 days or longer to wash my hair starts to shed in big clumps! I loose more hair than I do if I was washing in on a daily basis, and she also said, "I don't ever remember you washing your hair that often when you were going to school and work," and I told her, "Well, I did." I would get in the shower and wash my hair every single day when I was both working, in high school, and in college.

Why not just wash it on the days you work out?

[cat11]

Dark40 how often you wash your hair is a really personal kind of thing. To me I would also be alarmed because washing my hair everyday would really dry it out- it would look bad and not be good for it with all the extra handling (breakage), hydral fatigue, ect. My hair takes almost the whole day to dry so Id be constantly drying my hair... Also a lot of people with your hair type cant wash that much. Maybe that's why your mother is shocked.

But everyone is different. There are also a lot of people who have to wash daily or almost daily because of their scalp! If your hair falls out in clumps when you go 5 days of longer, this might be you!! Listen to your hair and scalp and how they react. But maybe you could do something in between, like wash every 2-3 days. Its all about what works for you with washing, I think.

edit: I like Sarahlabyrinths suggestion!!

[MusicalSpoons]

Hi all!

I'm in really need for support here. This morning as I was going to take my shower as wash my hair every morning or every time I get ready to wash my hair my mom always has this disgusted look and tone of voice saying, "Oh my goodness." "You're washing that hair again." She said this morning since we are at home quarantining I don't need to wash it everyday but I feel that I really need to. Because, I work out 3 times a week, and I've learned that it I wait 5 days or longer to wash my hair starts to shed in big clumps! I loose more hair than I do if I was washing in on a daily basis, and she also said, "I don't ever remember you washing your hair that often when you were going to school and work," and I told her, "Well, I did." I would get in the shower and wash my hair every single day when I was both working, in high school, and in college.

There's a big difference between washing every day and waiting for 5 days or more. You can wash every 2 days, every 3 days, every 4 days; those are all options without needing to wait 5 days.

You also said on another thread you wash "3 times a week, or every day" - which is it?

If you need to wash your hair after working out, you could just wash it after you've worked out, 3 times a week.

Of course it's not disgusting to wash every day, but it seems excessive if your scalp doesn't really need it. If you can wash less often (and if I remember correctly, you blow dry your hair too?) then doing less to your hair might mean it can retain length a bit better too :)

[Dark40]

Why not just wash it on the days you work out?

Yes, I'm washing it on days I'm working out now! Thank you for that suggestion!

[Dark40]

Dark40 how often you wash your hair is a really personal kind of thing. To me I would also be alarmed because washing my hair everyday would really dry it out- it would look bad and not be good for it with all the extra handling (breakage), hydral fatigue, ect. My hair takes almost the whole day to dry so Id be constantly drying my hair... Also a lot of people with your hair type cant wash that much. Maybe that's why your mother is shocked.

But everyone is different. There are also a lot of people who have to wash daily or almost daily because of their scalp! If your hair falls out in clumps when you go 5 days of longer, this might be you!! Listen to your hair and scalp and how they react. But maybe you could do something in between, like wash every 2-3 days. Its all about what works for you with washing, I think.

edit: I like Sarahlabyrinths suggestion!!

Well, I do wash more often because of the oily hair and scalp, and the products I apply on there. Well, my mother has always been shocked for years ever since high school when I first started washing my hair more frequently, and it never dried my hair out nor cause any breakage. I've been washing my have 3 times a week or everyday off and on for many years ever since high school, and my mom knew about it too, and my hair was still grow fast back then and everything too. I know she didn't like it but I just couldn't handle being a total grease ball back then, and I can't handle being one now, and what I did to keep my hair from breaking off or causing any damage was doing weekly hot oil treatments and weekly deep moisturizing conditioning treatments


There's a big difference between washing every day and waiting for 5 days or more. You can wash every 2 days, every 3 days, every 4 days; those are all options without needing to wait 5 days.

You also said on another thread you wash "3 times a week, or every day" - which is it?

If you need to wash your hair after working out, you could just wash it after you've worked out, 3 times a week.

Of course it's not disgusting to wash every day, but it seems excessive if your scalp doesn't really need it. If you can wash less often (and if I remember correctly, you blow dry your hair too?) then doing less to your hair might mean it can retain length a bit better too :)

Look, I know that there is a big difference between washing your hair every day and waiting 5 days or more. Yeah, I've heard of others washing their hair 2 days, every 3 days, or every 4 days too. But me, I can't wait that long. My hair and scalp gets too greasy or oily too fast! And, that causes me a lot of hair fall or shedding. Look, I know I 've said on another thread that I wash my hair 3 times a week. That's what I'm doing right now. Now, some months I'll wash it on other extra days but mainly right now I do wash it 3 times a week, and yes you do remember correctly that I do blow dry BUT before or prior to blow drying i let my hair air dry for several hours or until it's 100% dry. THEN I blow dry it with a little heat for only 5 minutes. Let me be honest with you, there isn't anything wrong with blowing drying your hair or using a little heat when you're trying to grow your hair out or trying to retain length. There's this lady named, "JJJlonghair," and she is on youtube. She also has her own hair care website as well, and she mentions in her hair care routine that there were times when she blow dries her hair from time to time. Or, if I remember correctly she said in her routine that she blow dried her hair every time she washed her hair, and she only washed it once a week if I can remember, and when me and her first met through her website her hair length was mid thigh length!! And, I told her my long-term goal was floor length!! And she said, "I don't know if my hair can even grow that long," "Or, I don't know if I can handle my hair being at that length!" And either back in the early 2000s or back in 2005 she was able to reach or grow to the floor!! Her hair was dragging the floor!! Even with the same hair care routine that she was following she was able to grow to the floor!! So, she is a good prime example of a rapunzel :) I feel that if she can do it so can I.

[AmaryllisRed]

I work out six days a week and my hair is now past mid-thigh. No way am I washing it six days a week! I'm probably washing twice a week. Just whenever it gets to look, smell, or feel gross. But everyone is different. I used to wash every day. I don't think washing daily is necessarily bad. Also I think for a lot of people, washing and conditioning and doing nice things to their hair is calming and comforting.
(Personally the less I have to deal with it the better but I know some people like doing stuff to their hair.)

[Feral_]

Mine’s MBL and I’m with AmaryllisRed the fewer washes the better for me. Because I’ve things I’d rather do in my day and that take up my time. I also workout several times a week and I either rinse the underneath if it’s really sweaty, or wait til it’s dry and brush it out. My hair doesn’t smell and my scalp is good. I’m washing every 7-10 days (WO), but last week I went just over two weeks without issue. Everyone is different!

[Primrose14]

Does protein overload make Olaplex less effective? Does the excess protein make it harder for Olaplex to penetrate your hair somehow?

[Dark40]

I really truly wish that I can stretch out my washes but I can't. Yes, everybody is different.

[MusicalSpoons]

Look, I know that there is a big difference between washing your hair every day and waiting 5 days or more. Yeah, I've heard of others washing their hair 2 days, every 3 days, or every 4 days too. But me, I can't wait that long. My hair and scalp gets too greasy or oily too fast! And, that causes me a lot of hair fall or shedding. Look, I know I 've said on another thread that I wash my hair 3 times a week. That's what I'm doing right now. Now, some months I'll wash it on other extra days but mainly right now I do wash it 3 times a week, and yes you do remember correctly that I do blow dry BUT before or prior to blow drying i let my hair air dry for several hours or until it's 100% dry. THEN I blow dry it with a little heat for only 5 minutes. Let me be honest with you, there isn't anything wrong with blowing drying your hair or using a little heat when you're trying to grow your hair out or trying to retain length. There's this lady named, "JJJlonghair," and she is on youtube. She also has her own hair care website as well, and she mentions in her hair care routine that there were times when she blow dries her hair from time to time. Or, if I remember correctly she said in her routine that she blow dried her hair every time she washed her hair, and she only washed it once a week if I can remember, and when me and her first met through her website her hair length was mid thigh length!! And, I told her my long-term goal was floor length!! And she said, "I don't know if my hair can even grow that long," "Or, I don't know if I can handle my hair being at that length!" And either back in the early 2000s or back in 2005 she was able to reach or grow to the floor!! Her hair was dragging the floor!! Even with the same hair care routine that she was following she was able to grow to the floor!! So, she is a good prime example of a rapunzel :) I feel that if she can do it so can I.

I didn't say blow-drying was bad, several people here blow-dry on warm or cool and they do it carefully and it's fine. My point was simply that doing less to your hair, if you can, might help it retain length better. Washing and blow-drying 3 days a week is better for most people's hair than every day.

Yes I've seen JJJ's amazing hair; she's on here too but doesn't post very often at the moment. Her hair is the colour I always used to wish mine was :crush:

[Jane99]

Dark40 I’m sorry to hear that you are feeling unsupported by your mom. I have read other posts on here too about disagreements you and your mom have about hair. What you do with your hair is a personal choice and I’m sorry you feel like you have to defend yourself to your mom.
My scalp also gets greasy fast and so before LHC I thought it was weird that anyone would NOT wash their hair daily. I think the daily washing did dry out and cause mechanical damage to my hair. So I’ve been able to stretch full washings down to twice a week and I’ll rinse my scalp only with water daily. It’s helped me a lot, maybe it could help you. I notice more sheds this way but probably because they accumulate over more days between washing.

[Dark40]

I didn't say blow-drying was bad, several people here blow-dry on warm or cool and they do it carefully and it's fine. My point was simply that doing less to your hair, if you can, might help it retain length better. Washing and blow-drying 3 days a week is better for most people's hair than every day.

Yes I've seen JJJ's amazing hair; she's on here too but doesn't post very often at the moment. Her hair is the colour I always used to wish mine was :crush:

Ok then! Yes, I agree that doing less to your hair, if you can, might help it retain length better. Yes, and there are times out of one of those 3 days I wash my hair I'll skip the blow drying all together. Yes, you're right. For some people blow drying 3 days a week is better for most people other than every day.

Oh, ok! I didn't realize that JJJ was on here! And, you're right she doesn't post on here that often at the moment. But yes, her hair is amazing! I also love her hair colour too! And, I've also always wished that mine was that colour and like hers too! :crush:


Dark40 I’m sorry to hear that you are feeling unsupported by your mom. I have read other posts on here too about disagreements you and your mom have about hair. What you do with your hair is a personal choice and I’m sorry you feel like you have to defend yourself to your mom.
My scalp also gets greasy fast and so before LHC I thought it was weird that anyone would NOT wash their hair daily. I think the daily washing did dry out and cause mechanical damage to my hair. So I’ve been able to stretch full washings down to twice a week and I’ll rinse my scalp only with water daily. It’s helped me a lot, maybe it could help you. I notice more sheds this way but probably because they accumulate over more days between washing.

Yes, I know! It's sad that my mom is not supporting me with anything about hair. I think the reason is because she's just jealous hers can't grow as long as mine can. Oh my, you've read some of the posts of the disagreements me and my mom have about hair? Yes, it's so sad that she doesn't think my hair will grow pass BSL or MBL. She always tells me, "Your hair will never grow to your butt or pass it," and I know that is not true. I will prove her wrong one of these days. Yes, you are so very right! What I do to my hair is a personal choice, and at my age I shouldn't have to defend myself to my mom on anything about what I do to my hair. You are so lucky to be able to stretch your washes to twice a week and rinse your scalp only with water daily. That is a good idea though. I may try that for a couple of weeks, and see how it works. I had tried washing my hair twice a week one time, and that didn't work. Yeah, I bet you did noticed more sheds this way probably because they accumulate over more days between washing. I just noticed since I wash 3 times a week I have less hair shed or less hair falling. But, thank you for the suggestion about trying washing twice a week and rinsing scalp only with water daily though.

[Dark40]

I didn't say blow-drying was bad, several people here blow-dry on warm or cool and they do it carefully and it's fine. My point was simply that doing less to your hair, if you can, might help it retain length better. Washing and blow-drying 3 days a week is better for most people's hair than every day.

Yes I've seen JJJ's amazing hair; she's on here too but doesn't post very often at the moment. Her hair is the colour I always used to wish mine was :crush:

Hey, I forgot to mention to you on yesterday's post that thinking about how amazing JJJ's amazing long hair is I remember when I was a teenager, and as me and my girlfriend went to the mall out to where I live, and I saw or witnessed a lady with ankle length blonde hair! I can't remember correctly if it was the same shade of blonde as JJJ's blonde hair but it was blonde! And, she also had a fringe or bangs too. It was so gorgeous! Before LHC that's what made me want to have that long, and also remembering how long my friend's hair that I grew up in church with. Her hair was also ankle length as well! And, it was relaxed when she was little like 13 years old, and when she reached 17 years old that's when she started dyeing it a bright red! And, it was still very healthy to her ankles. But as soon as she went to college she went through the big chop, and cut it shorter up to TBL, and then a month later she really cut it a lot shorter up to APL.

[Bri-Chan]

Lately my dry dandruff is becoming worse. All my hair and scalp are drier, I suppose for the colder climate.
I was wondering, would be a good idea trying washing more frequently? Now my hair gets dirty if I go 4 or 5 days without washing, but I have this dandruff all the time. I'm at the point where I don't understand if I'm washing too much or not enough. I went 6 days without washing some on one of the last wash days and I think it was too oily for my standards.

[MusicalSpoons]

It could be dehydrated skin from drier air, especially if heating is on indoors without a humidifier. I don't know what's usually suggested though if that is the case.

[baanoo]

It could be dehydrated skin from drier air, especially if heating is on indoors without a humidifier. I don't know what's usually suggested though if that is the case.

I'm in the same boat and honestly I've just been washing every 3 days with Nizoral. Not ideal, but better than the alternative, I suppose.

[Bri-Chan]

It could be dehydrated skin from drier air, especially if heating is on indoors without a humidifier. I don't know what's usually suggested though if that is the case.

No, no heating because isn't *that* cold yet. And my house tends to be humid more than dry. So, I don't now. Not being summer anymore I sweat less, so my scalp is less oily...
baanoo I didn't know this product, so I googled. But don't you need your doctor's prescription for something like this? Or at least, your doctort's suggestion.

[enting]

Skin could also be flaky and dehydrated just from being cold. There could be less circulation to the extremeties and surfaces including the scalp while trying to keep one's insides warm enough.

[Bonsai]

baanoo I didn't know this product, so I googled. But don't you need your doctor's prescription for something like this? Or at least, your doctort's suggestion.

I'm not baanoo, but... in my country everyone can buy it without problems. In all my life only once I heard about doctor's suggestion - for my friend with skin problem. Suggestion was "You should buy nizoral shampoo and use it like shower gel".

[Siv]

I'm not baanoo, but... in my country everyone can buy it without problems. In all my life only once I heard about doctor's suggestion - for my friend with skin problem. Suggestion was "You should buy nizoral shampoo and use it like shower gel".

Nizoral has ketoconazole as the active ingredient so you could go on a hunt for another ketoconazole dandruff shampoo if that's easier :)

[SleepyTangles]

Hi all!

I'm in really need for support here. This morning as I was going to take my shower as wash my hair every morning or every time I get ready to wash my hair my mom always has this disgusted look and tone of voice saying, "Oh my goodness." "You're washing that hair again." She said this morning since we are at home quarantining I don't need to wash it everyday but I feel that I really need to. Because, I work out 3 times a week, and I've learned that it I wait 5 days or longer to wash my hair starts to shed in big clumps! I loose more hair than I do if I was washing in on a daily basis, and she also said, "I don't ever remember you washing your hair that often when you were going to school and work," and I told her, "Well, I did." I would get in the shower and wash my hair every single day when I was both working, in high school, and in college.

Sorry for your mom unsupportiveness! My family is terrified of me going in the bathroom, but because I'm known to take possession of the shower for veeeery long periods of time :grnbiggri:bluebiggr:grnbiggri:bluebiggr
It's like laying siege to a fortress.
I don't even know why I take so long, probably I'm just too relaxed and I zone out.
Maybe for your mom it has more to do with the bathroom than your hair? Just an idea ;).

As everyone said, each person is a bit different. My ideal period of wash is every two days, or three when the weather is drier.
I know that once my scalp gets a certain amount of oil, my hair will shed much more than usual. But I also feel than washing less stimulates my scalp in producing less sebum.

[baanoo]

No, no heating because isn't *that* cold yet. And my house tends to be humid more than dry. So, I don't now. Not being summer anymore I sweat less, so my scalp is less oily...
baanoo I didn't know this product, so I googled. But don't you need your doctor's prescription for something like this? Or at least, your doctort's suggestion.
Bri, here it’s sold everywhere, next to the “head and shoulders” anti-dandruff shampoo. I prefer this one because it doesn’t tingle my head so much and seems to work better at keeping the situation under control.

[Lucy McLucyFace]

I realize this has been asked before even in independent threads but how on earth do LHCers with hair past classic wash it? How does one wash knee length hair? And calf length and floor length? I've read many wash separately from the normal shower but I'm starting to feel some serious weight when I wash my hair with the head upside down over the bathtub and I'm only barely reaching hip shudder:

[SleepyTangles]

Lately my dry dandruff is becoming worse. All my hair and scalp are drier, I suppose for the colder climate.
I was wondering, would be a good idea trying washing more frequently? Now my hair gets dirty if I go 4 or 5 days without washing, but I have this dandruff all the time. I'm at the point where I don't understand if I'm washing too much or not enough. I went 6 days without washing some on one of the last wash days and I think it was too oily for my standards.

My dandruff is triggered more by my scalp sensitivity to harsh chemicals, stress and sudden weather changes than anything else.
As such, I don't find much relief in medicated products, most of the time a warm oil treatment and a massage is enough to shed the flakey skin and start over with a clean scalp.

[Chromis]

I realize this has been asked before even in independent threads but how on earth do LHCers with hair past classic wash it? How does one wash knee length hair? And calf length and floor length? I've read many wash separately from the normal shower but I'm starting to feel some serious weight when I wash my hair with the head upside down over the bathtub and I'm only barely reaching hip shudder:

I don't wash upside down. That sounds like tangle city to me!

[MusicalSpoons]

I realize this has been asked before even in independent threads but how on earth do LHCers with hair past classic wash it? How does one wash knee length hair? And calf length and floor length? I've read many wash separately from the normal shower but I'm starting to feel some serious weight when I wash my hair with the head upside down over the bathtub and I'm only barely reaching hip shudder:

I wash the right way up, and it's ... well I was going to say fine, but actually it makes my neck and shoulders ache, but I think that's a feeble body thing rather than a hair length thing!

Upside down causes tangles and my hair doesn't like being combed the first few days after a wash, so it works best for me to comb during the wash, right way up, and then leave it alone for a few days afterwards.

I have noticed that the water flow from the shower makes a difference. We were on holiday with a faster shower (I can't think of the word for it, but more water came out at once than our own shower - maybe higher water pressure or faster flow or something, I don't know). It took me by surprise and definitely felt heavier! But we have a power shower and decent water pressure at home and it's not normally a real problem.

[cat11]

I just wash my hair standing up like I always have and it isn't an issue. But I am at fingertip, not knee or floor or something.

[neko_kawaii]

I'm a bit past knee and I wash both ways depending on whether I can't wait until I shower to wash my hair or not. No issues, but then my hair is not very thick so I don't have the weight issues some experience.

[knobbly]

I realize this has been asked before even in independent threads but how on earth do LHCers with hair past classic wash it? How does one wash knee length hair? And calf length and floor length? I've read many wash separately from the normal shower but I'm starting to feel some serious weight when I wash my hair with the head upside down over the bathtub and I'm only barely reaching hip shudder:

I actually started a whole thread about this and my conclusion was to do my whole shower standing straight up with no hair flips. In my case it’s to avoid tangles since I prefer not to use silicone-y in shower products (it’s just a texture thing; slick floors and back after rinsing shudder:) but maybe you don’t need to bend over at all?

As for washing hair without taking a shower, I don’t know. I have tried bending over the tub but it murders my back. Kitchen sink is a bit better but the faucet in our sink isn’t ideal and it’s hard to keep my length from going down the drain. I just wash my hair in the shower these days.

[cat11]

I often take showers without washing my hair and just put it in a cap, but I dont think I've ever had a reason to avoid taking a shower even though I wanted to wash my hair. It seems a lot easier to just take the shower since it doesnt take long to dry my body.

I think if I had to wash my hair without taking a shower I would get in the tub and pour water over my head using a bowl. Or use a big basin or plastic tub so there was no drain to get hair stuck in, lean over that sideways I guess or as straight up and down as you can when leaning over a bucket and pour water from a bowl. It sounds really difficult to me compared to getting in the bath or shower, but I can see how someone with a disability perhaps might need or want to avoid the shower.