Need some advice about very damaged hair?

[xoChesleyy]

Hi all! I would love some advice about good co-washing (and any other) recommendations for chemically processed damaged hair.


*Short version: My hair was badly bleach damaged back in March. I am experiencing breakage/splits as well as dryness. I CO-wash but sometimes my length still looks greasy afterwards, which makes me think it is either build-up or that I need to try using a different conditioner on my length. I would like some advice about CO-washing bleach damaged hair and what products I should be using.

Here's a bit of a backstory (I'll try keeping it as short as possible): I used to have very healthy, long hair. Back in March, I decided to be a bit too rebellious and dye my hair red. My hair was black so it required lightening. I used Color Oops on my hair then a few days later proceeded to bleach. I slathered my hair in coconut oil and applied the bleach. The instructions said to leave the bleach on for a minimum of 45 minutes. After about 25 minutes, I smelled a horrible burning smell and ran to the shower. While rinsing out the bleach, I noticed that my hair was snapping and it was now extremely damaged. I was devastated. I am pretty sure it was an old batch of bleach because I cannot see any other explanation as to why that happened and I wouldn't even want to know how much worse the damage would have been had I not used coconut oil! But it was so so bad...My hair was gummy and kept snapping while wet for around two weeks or so. :cry: What's worse is, the bleach didn't even lift the black in most spots, so I was never able to achieve the red I wanted since my hair hardly lightened (and I was NOT going to be touching any more chemicals after that).

Ever since, in hopes of eventually restoring my hair, I have been dying my hair with the Pravana violet semi-permanent dye, doing weekly overnight coconut oil treatments as a pre-wash, CO-washing, doing regular S&D trims, small trims every couple months, along with weekly/bi-weekly ACV rinses. I will also admit that I am bad about not detangling and wearing protective styles but I am unsure of how beneficial this would be to me anyway since most of my damage is chemical damage, rather than physical? Anyway, my hair has significantly improved since that entire fiasco, but it is still very damaged.

When I S&D, I always find lots of white dots and if I pull at the strand, the hair breaks off where the dot is (I always snip those off when I see them but there are so many). I also have quite a few split ends and DRYNESS. I have been doing a lot of research about co-washing bleach damaged hair and it's pretty overwhelming. I have read such mixed opinions-- Some people suggesting not to use cones because they will prevent the moisture from actually penetrating your hair and others saying to use cones to add slip and make hair appear healthy. In my current routine, I am using Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner on my scalp and length when it's dry before showering, I let it sit for about 15 minutes, get in the shower, wet my hair a little, work the conditioner into my scalp again while wet, and rinse. Then I put Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist on my length, let it sit for the remaining duration of my shower, and rinse. A problem I have been having with this is that sometimes when I get out of the shower, my length looks a bit greasy. The 3MM conditioner is really thick, so do I need to opt for something of a thinner consistency to put on my length or could this be caused by something else? Also, my hair will usually feel moisturized for a day or so, but then the ends start feeling very dry again...I have several questions below relating to all this. Sorry that there's so many! I am pretty overwhelmed. :(

Questions:

1. Do you think the greasiness after showering is build-up? If so, what kind of clarifying shampoo should I try using and how often?
2. A couple days after CO-washing, my hair (mostly my ends) gets dry again. Is this most likely from the bleach damage or should I try a different conditioner? Would coconut oil be beneficial to put on my ends daily or something else?
3. Are the cones used in Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner and Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist conditioner water soluble or can they cause build-up?
4. Having bleach damaged hair, should I use coney or cone-free conditioners? Do coney conditioners prevent hair from taking in the moisture?
5. Any CO-washing conditioner recommendations or other tips?

Any answers to any of these questions would be very much appreciated as well as any additional tips/recommendations. I have been super frustrated about my hair lately and I feel as though I am doing something wrong here in my current routine. I am always looking for improvement in my routine and I know it will take time, but I just want my hair to get healthy again. I know hair cannot "repair" itself so I am trying to be realistic while trying to get rid of the damage and improve my hair's health as much as possible.

Thank you all in advance! :blossom:

[lapushka]

First off, breaking and snapping hair needs protein. Get yourself a nice protein treatment and keep your "care" to a minimum otherwise.

If your hair is still oily after CO-washing, try a sulfate-free shampoo, then see how far you can go. Washing less is definitely better.

Don't pull the white dots! They can stay in the hair without breaking for a long time, as long as you take care of your hair properly. Then *gradually* snip them out (over months and months) or you'll get very thin hair.

With bleach damage, it is better to use silicones on the hair!!! It will *so* limit the mechanical damage.

[Nightshade]

I will also admit that I am bad about not detangling and wearing protective styles but I am unsure of how beneficial this would be to me anyway since most of my damage is chemical damage, rather than physical? Anyway, my hair has significantly improved since that entire fiasco, but it is still very damaged.

This matters immensely. The origin of the damage doesn't matter because the repercussions from the damage are the same. The structure of your hair is fragile and weak. This makes it more susceptible to more damage from things that your hair encounters by wearing it down. Keeping it up or in another protective style will reduce further breakage, as well as keep moisture in your hair if you do things like damp bun.


Questions:

1. Do you think the greasiness after showering is build-up? If so, what kind of clarifying shampoo should I try using and how often?

It does sounds to me like you have some intense silicone buildup. I would recommend clarifying with a sulfate shampoo and either not use silcones, or only use water soluble ones.



2. A couple days after CO-washing, my hair (mostly my ends) gets dry again. Is this most likely from the bleach damage or should I try a different conditioner? Would coconut oil be beneficial to put on my ends daily or something else?

Because the cuticle of your hair is pretty ruined, you hair has lost its ability to keep moisture inside itself. Oils themselves do not moisturize, but they help keep moisture in. You could try a SMT or other deep moisture treatment like a long soak in silicone-free conditioner, and then follow up with coconut oil to help seal in the moisture. Wearing your hair up and protected will also help retard moisture loss.



3. Are the cones used in Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner and Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist conditioner water soluble or can they cause build-up?

I'm not sure which silicone are in the products you're using, but for general reference.

Silicone ingredients end with the suffixes -one, -onol, or -xane. Silicones that are most prone to buildup and that are best avoided if you are experiencing dry hair, poor dye uptake, or your hair feeling coated include:
• Amodimethicone
• Behenoxy Dimethicone Cetearyl methicone
• Bis-Amino PEG/PPG-41/3 Aminoethyl PG-Propyl Dimethicone
• Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone
• Bis-Cetearyl Amodimethicone
• Bis-Hydroxy/Methoxy Amodimethicone
• Bis-Phenylpropyl Dimethicone
• Cetearyl methicone
• Cetyl Dimethicone
• Cetyl PEG/PPG-15/15 Butyl Ether Dimethicone
• Cyclomethicone
• Cyclopentasiloxane
• Cyclopentasiloxane and C30-45 Alkyl Cetearyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer Cyclohexasiloxane
• Di-Isostearoyl Trimethylolpropane Siloxy Silicate
• Dimethicone
• Dimethicone Propyl PG-Betaine
• Dimethicone/Vinyldimethicone Crosspolymer
• Dimethiconol
• Diphenyl Dimethicone
• Disiloxane
• Divynildimethicone/Dimethicone Copolymer
• Hexamethyldisiloxane
• PCA Dimethicone
• Phenyl Trimethicone
• Phenylpropyldimethylsiloxysilicate
• Polysilicone-18 Cetyl Phosphate
• Silicone Quaternium-16
• Silicone Quaternium-18
• Silicone Quaternium-22
• Simethicone Stearoxy (or Stearyl) Dimethicone
• Stearoxy Dimethicone
• Stearyl Dimethicone
• Trimethyl Silylamodimethicone
• Trimethylsiloxyamodimethicone
• Trimethylsiloxysilicate
• Trimethylsiloxysilicate
• Trimethylsilylamodimethicone
• Trisiloxane

Waxes and non-natural oils that can cause buildup include:
• Bees wax
• Candelilla wax
• Mineral oil (paraffinum liquidum)
• Petrolatum

These ingredients are exceptions and are either water-soluble silicones (meaning they dissolve and rinse off with just water), look like silicones but are not, or are other ingredients that are safe to use with limited risk of buildup:
• Benzophenone-2, ( or 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
• DEA PG-Propyl PEG/PPG-18/21 Dimethicone
• Dimethicone Copolyol
• Dimethicone PEG-8 Phosphate
• Dimethicone-PG Diethylmonium Chloride
• Emulsifying Wax
• Hydrolyzed Silk PG-Propyl Methylsilanediol Crosspolymer
• Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
• Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol
• Hydrolyzed Wheat protein/hydroxypropyl polysiloxane and cystine/silicone co-polymers
• Lauryl methicone copolyol
• Lauryl PEG/PPG-18/18 Methicone
• Methychloroisothiazolinone
• Methylisothiazolinone
• Natural oils: Avocado oil, Olive oil, Coconut oil, etc.
• PEG/PPG-20/15 Dimethicone
• PEG-12 Dimethicone
• PEG-33 (and) PEG-8 Dimethicone (and) PEG-14
• PEG-40/PPG-8 Methylaminopropyl/Hydropropyl Dimethicone Copolymer
• PEG-7 Amodimethicone
• PEG-8 Disteramonium Chloride PG-Dimethicone
• PEG-Dimethicone
• PEG-Hydrogenated Castor Oil
• PPG-8 Methylaminopropyl, Hydroxypropyl Dimethicone Copolymer
• Silicone Quaternium-8
• Silicone Quaternium-17



4. Having bleach damaged hair, should I use coney or cone-free conditioners? Do coney conditioners prevent hair from taking in the moisture?

Having had immensely chemically damaged hair, I did better without cones. My hair also didn't like oils. I hypothesize that this is because oils like to grab onto protein and damaged hair is short on that. I personally did much better with salves and butters than with straight oils, but there are many different experiences here. Some people swear by cones, other oils. You should try a few things, giving each one a couple weeks, and see how it goes.



5. Any CO-washing conditioner recommendations or other tips?

My favorite was always V05 Chamomile Tea.

I hope that helps!

[lora410]

I don't have any advice other then I feel for you. Was rebellious to get a perm and look where I ended up. My hair was a bob with stacking in the back. Good news is it will grow back if worse comes to worse and you have to cut like I did. My hair was breaking off by the handfuls.:flowers:

[animetor7]

I agree with lapushka and nightshade that you have a lot of build-up and that your hair needs protein, gummy hair is hair without enough protein, a common occurrence with damaged hair.

So first, you'll need to clarify any sulfate shampoo should work, ones specifically for clarifying might work faster but tend to be harsher which is not what you need on your hair right now. I'd stick with a regular sulfate containing shampoo and follow up with a protein and moisture treatment. I find cones to be helpful in protecting hair from damage, and also find that you can use water insoluble ones just fine as long as you clarify every now and then. So you can experiment both with them and without them and see what works best for you. For the time being I'd stay away from oils, especially coconut oil, because they can be kind of fiddly with already damaged hair. That is sometimes they'll help a lot, and sometimes they'll only make matters worse. Instead, I'd use aloe vera gel and conditioners that are specifically designed to be moisturizing (ones containing shea butter are often good). After clarifying, you can try doing CO again, but if your length still looks greasy, I'd switch to using a gentle, sulfate-free shampoo for non-clarifying washes. Shea Moisture is a good company that makes very gentle, sulfate-free shampoos.

Now, to help with preventing more damage. I would check all of the tools you use on your hair (combs, brushes, clips etc.) for seams or sharp edges, these can pull or rip the hair and cause more damage to your already damage hair. If you're not already using a wide-tooth comb or tangle teezer, I would also switch to one of those for detangling to help minimize further damage. And always detangle very gently!!! And as nightshade mentioned it's very important to keep damaged hair at least braided, but even better up. This is to prevent tangling and any more damage to your length. Updos are better because they keep fragile ends tucked away.

Finally, you might find microtrimming regularly along with S&D sessions will help your ends stay in better shape and will help you to slowly trim out damage while still gaining length.

I hope that helps!!! Please keep us updated on how your treatment goes or if anything just isn't working for you. We're happy to help troubleshoot!!! :) :flower:

[xoChesleyy]

Thanks for the response lapushka! Do you have any recommendations for a good protein treatment? Also, I actually feel as though my hair is more "waxy" rather than oily after being CO-washed...So it probably is build-up. As for the white dots, I don't pull at them unless I'm already S&Ding and then I will snip off the broken end. Good to know though! :)

Nightshade, thank you so much for the list! I just checked and the Aussie 3MM conditioner has cyclopentasiloxane and dimethicone. The Suave conditioner has dimethicone and amodimethicone. :( Looks like I'll have to find other options. I did not realize how much the physical damage could actually contribute! That does make sense though, seeing as my hair is already fragile. Are there any easy protective updos you recommend?

Thank you lora410! :) I am sorry that happened to you. It is good (while also unfortunate) knowing that others can relate to what I am currently dealing with. But good luck to you on your journey!

Animetor7, thanks so much for the advice! I was using coconut oil on my ends for awhile and it seemed to help (or at least appear to help) with the dryness but it did make my ends look oily so I haven't been using it as much.
When using it as a pre-wash treatment, I haven't noticed as much of a difference after washing like I used to so it may not be helping as much as I thought. :-( Are there any DIY treatments that would work (i.e. raw honey)?
Also, how many times do you think I would need to use a sulfate shampoo before trying CO again, or would just one time be sufficient? How often is clarifying normally recommended?
I use the Mason Pearson detangling comb and I sometimes use metal-free hair elastics for tying off my hair when I braid it but as far as "tools" go that's the only things I use!
I will be sure to post an update tomorrow when I use the sulfate shampoo. Hopefully it helps!

[animetor7]

An SMT is a fantastic DIY treatment to add moisture, I'd do a protein treatment on your hair first though so it can "take" the moisture better. Here's a link to a thread about the SMT: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128

As for how many times you'll need to clarify, I'd start with one time and see how your hair feels. If it still looks limp and greasy even when freshly washed I'd try clarifying again. I'd also recommend picking up some claw clips or a hair stick or fork as they are an easy way to get all your hair up in a protective and comfortable way. I also forgot to ask if you have hard water. Sometimes minerals can build-up on hair when you live in an area with hard water, in which case you'll probably need to chelate as well as clarify. But first, try clarifying and if it works, no need to chelate. There are loads of options for protective hairstyles, the main idea is that they don't require too much manipulation and they get all of your hair up so it can't get damaged. Here are two videos to get you started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7JuC1_Q_F4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJTQEX3WnZ0

Good luck!!! :)

[202_bh_rider]

1. Do you think the greasiness after showering is build-up? If so, what kind of clarifying shampoo should I try using and how often?

possibly. if you're using cones, it's very likely. i have medium thickness overall straight hair, and i find the not your mothers clean freak shampoo works well (but that could be different for you!). i think anything with sulfate works though, but maybe try going without cones for a while? i don't have the greasiness problem and hence wash my hair once a week, but i use it everytime my hair starts feeling super gross. so whenever i switch shampoo/conditioner or i get coney buildup.

2. A couple days after CO-washing, my hair (mostly my ends) gets dry again. Is this most likely from the bleach damage or should I try a different conditioner? Would coconut oil be beneficial to put on my ends daily or something else?

My ombré is almost grown out, but i know what struggle it is with dry, damaged, bleached ends. for me, anything with cones dehydrated my hair, so i switched to the Shea Moisture line and it really helped, the thicker the better for my hair. it's probably the bleach. id continue with the coconut oil as a pre wash, but feel free to experiment with oils. for some people, coconut oil makes their hair feel crunchy. i've heard a lot of people like shea butter for the heavier side and almond oil as a lighter one.
3. Are the cones used in Suave Professionals Almond And Shea Butter conditioner and Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Moist conditioner water soluble or can they cause build-up?

can't give you any advice here, sorry! i stick to the shea moisture line :)

4. Having bleach damaged hair, should I use coney or cone-free conditioners? Do coney conditioners prevent hair from taking in the moisture?

in my experience, cone free is the best option. for me, i do think they prevent hair from taking in moisture. but remember all hair is different :)

5. Any CO-washing conditioner recommendations or other tips?

anything that has sulfates will really really clean you're hair, and the natural products will help with moisturizing. tre-semme vitamin E conditioner is what i use for the cleaning power, but i use shea moisture if i'm looking to moisturize. hope this helps a little!

[xoChesleyy]

Animetor7, I actually have been wanting to try doing an SMT for awhile now but wasn't sure about what kind of aloe to use! I have been searching for an aloe plant but cannot seem to find any in my area.
However, I did find a product sold by my local Wal-Mart that has these ingredients: Organic Aloe Vera Gel, Citric Acid, Sodium Benzoate, (A Food Preservative At 1/10 Of 1%). Would that work?

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if we have hard water or not. But I'll take your advice and try clarifying first. Thank you for the links, they were a huge help. I will definitely be wearing my hair in protective styles from now on!
I do have another question if that's okay! Basically, I feel as though since my hair is bleach damaged I will benefit more from cones especially because my hair tangles very easily and needs extra slip. If natural conditioners such as SheaMoisture help add moisture to hair, could I possibly try using a regular cheap conditioner on my scalp, SheaMoisture conditioner on my length, and then use a silicone serum after the shower when my hair dries and see how that works? Or would I be better off sticking with regular coney conditioners (assuming that CO-washing works better for me after clarifying)? I am trying to find coney conditioners without ingredients that cause build-up, as the two I am currently using have cyclopentasiloxane, dimethicone, and amodimethicone. :eek: I was considering buying a conditioner with water soluble cones but they seem to be difficult to come by...:-( Do you have any recommendations?

Thank you for your response as well 202_bh_rider! Before going entirely CO, I used to use the SheaMoisture Fruit Complex shampoo and conditioner. SheaMoisture's products smell wonderful and it's a plus that they're all natural.
Their lotions and body washes are great as well. :) As for sulfates-- I don't think my hair likes them very much. When I used them previously they seemed to be too drying for me!

[animetor7]

Animetor7, I actually have been wanting to try doing an SMT for awhile now but wasn't sure about what kind of aloe to use! I have been searching for an aloe plant but cannot seem to find any in my area.
However, I did find a product sold by my local Wal-Mart that has these ingredients: Organic Aloe Vera Gel, Citric Acid, Sodium Benzoate, (A Food Preservative At 1/10 Of 1%). Would that work?

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if we have hard water or not. But I'll take your advice and try clarifying first. Thank you for the links, they were a huge help. I will definitely be wearing my hair in protective styles from now on!
I do have another question if that's okay! Basically, I feel as though since my hair is bleach damaged I will benefit more from cones especially because my hair tangles very easily and needs extra slip. If natural conditioners such as SheaMoisture help add moisture to hair, could I possibly try using a regular cheap conditioner on my scalp, SheaMoisture conditioner on my length, and then use a silicone serum after the shower when my hair dries and see how that works? Or would I be better off sticking with regular coney conditioners (assuming that CO-washing works better for me after clarifying)? I am trying to find coney conditioners without ingredients that cause build-up, as the two I am currently using have cyclopentasiloxane, dimethicone, and amodimethicone. :eek: I was considering buying a conditioner with water soluble cones but they seem to be difficult to come by...:-( Do you have any recommendations?



Yup, that aloe vera gel sounds fine to me. I usually just buy the whatever clear aloe vera gel is cheapest at my grocery store. Just make sure you do a protein treatment before doing an SMT, if you have hair that's losing moisture really quickly and snaps easily you'll need a protein treatment before the SMT will be able to help much. You'll have to either look around the forum or ask one of our other lovely members how they go about doing protein treatments though because my hair has never needed one, so I don't know how to go about making or buying one.

As for water soluble cones, I don't really worry about making sure all the cones I use are water soluble, so I never check and I'm sure there are plenty of water insoluble cones in my conditioners and such. I've never had any problems using these cones provided I clarify regularly, how regularly will depend on your hair, how often you use cones and how much and lots of other factors. For example I wash my hair once a week and therefore only use cones once a week, and clarify anywhere from once a month to once every 3 months depending on how my hair feels. You may need to clarify more or less often depending on your specific hair and circumstances. :)

Good luck!! And let us know if the clarifying helped at all!! :)

[Kat-Rinnè Naido]

I have read here that some members use gelatine ( I have not found it yet so have not tried) you can get it in the baking aisle at your grocer or the Joico K Pac as a protein treatment. They are said to work wonders.
I have not seen the above, therefore I have used mayonnaise mixed with oils on my strands as a DT and I use Dove hair therapy daily treatment conditioner in a tube. This works as a leave-in for my hair. But I cannot say for sure how it shall work on your hair. Hope this helps a bit

[lapushka]

Thanks for the response lapushka! Do you have any recommendations for a good protein treatment? Also, I actually feel as though my hair is more "waxy" rather than oily after being CO-washed...So it probably is build-up. As for the white dots, I don't pull at them unless I'm already S&Ding and then I will snip off the broken end. Good to know though! :)

You can try gelatin packs, they are a nice cost effective DIY. I hope meteor jumps on in. She has lots of info on this. If you don't want to go there, Joico does good protein treatments, as does Redken (anti snap).

[pailin]

Meteor also has a recipe where she sort of combines the DIY gelatin with something SMT-like, if I remember correctly.

[Kajzh]

This sounds kooky, but what's your water quality like? Soft, hard, in between?

[xoChesleyy]

I'm really curious and would like to know more about this gelatin treatment you guys are talking about!

animetor7, thank you! I suppose I'll start worrying less about the type of cones, try out different products and use whatever my hair likes, and clarify when I feel my hair needs it.
I think that was the big issue, as I rarely clarified before.. Also the lack of protein.

Kajzh, I have no idea about my water quality. How is this typically checked? :confused: Love the locks, by the way. They look amazing!

So for the update: Yesterday I went to the store and purchased some different conditioners to try out. I have never tried VO5 before but have read lots of good things about it for CO-washing so I picked up a bottle of VO5's Extra Body.
I also found a conditioner just released by Suave called "Coconut Oil Infusion Damage Repair" and it smells heavenly! It had lots of good reviews from others with damaged hair so I'm hoping it'll work for me. :)
I tried finding Joico K Pak for a protein treatment, but had no luck (anyone have any ideas on where to purchase this)?

However, I did end up finding a deep conditioning packet called Hask Keratin.
The ingredients are: Water/Eau (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Lanolin, Quaternium-18, Cetyl Alcohol, Keratin Amino Acids, Cocoyl Hydrolyzed Keratin, Cocoyl Hydrolyzed Collagen, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Sesamum Indicum (Sesame) Seed Oil, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Starch, Hydroxypropyltrimonium Hydrolyzed Rice Protein/Siloxysilicate, Oryza Sative (Rice) Extract, Panthenyl Hydroxypropyl Steardimonium Chloride, Isopropyl Palmitate, Glycerin, Citric Acid, Isostearic Acid, Lanolin Alcohol, Lecithin, Oleoyl Sarcosine, Sorbitan Oleate, Butyl Stearate, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, DMDM Hydantoin, Caprylyl Glycol, Phenoxyethanol, Hexylene Glycol, Fragrance/Parfum.

Lots of hydrolyzed stuff in there so I figured it would be great for a protein treatment!

When I got home, I washed my entire head with a "color safe" sulfate shampoo. (Kind of ironic how the shampoo I used is marketed as color safe when I had never seen so much of my semi-permanent dye bleeding before. :bigeyes:)
I got a bit skeptical at first because my hair felt extremely dry after using the sulfate shampoo..
I proceeded to apply the protein treatment. The recommended leave on time was 10 minutes but I let it sit for 15.
I rinsed this out then made an SMT. I forgot to pick up aloe gel while at the store so I substituted the aloe with a bit of coconut oil. I mixed 4 parts Aussie 3MM, 1 part coconut oil, 1 part raw honey, then applied it to my hair.
I put on a shower cap and slept with it overnight. HOLY COW! When I rinsed it out this morning, I was surprised at how soft my hair felt. I could actually run my fingers through my hair without tangles and it was so much more manageable. My hair hasn't felt this soft in a long time. I know my hair is still damaged and it will take time to get rid of the damage, but I am pleased with the results from this treatment nonetheless and I can't wait to try it out with aloe!

Also, I was wondering.. How often can I do protein treatments as well as SMTs? Anyone have any good recommendations for a leave-in? I'm willing to experiment with different things to find what my hair likes but there's so many options. I've heard of some people using their regular conditioner as a leave-in, does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks again so much for everyone's help! :)

[animetor7]

I'm not the best at remembering to do SMT's so I just kind of do them or something like them whenever my hair feels dry or like it needs some extra help. I'd start with once a week for them, and then up the amount if your hair still feels dry. For protein treatments someone else will have to chime in. I do know that it's quite possible to overload your hair with protein, so maybe be a bit more careful with them. But like I said, I've never used them before so hopefully someone who has can help. For a leave-in, I've liked all of the leave-ins by Organix. I also like to use the Neutrogena Triple Moisture Deep Recovery Hair mask as a leave in sometimes just a very tiny bit on the ends. But my favorite leave-in is a very coney serum called biosilk silk therapy that I order on Amazon. I like it because all the cones help lock in the moisture from washing, and as I only wash my hair once a week, this is important. I do dampen and oil my ends a couple of times throughout the week and that can help, but I find the less moisture I lose at the beginning of the week and have to replace, the better. This way I can protect my hair as much as possible from hydral fatigue, which isn't very severe for a once a week washing, but damage is damage, and the more you can minimize the healthier your hair will be.

Sorry for rambling a bit. I'm so glad this worked for you!!! Just think if your hair feels soft even badly damaged with gentle care, how nice it will be once the damage is all grown out! :)

[Robot Ninja]

Gelatin protein treatment. (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/p/recipes-and-projects.html) I'm not sure how often you can use it; I did the blow-dry method once, it de-mushified my hair, and now I just dissolve a spoonful of gelatin in water and mix it with conditioner every time I co-wash (I use Tresemme Perfectly Undone, which is pretty thick so it needs to be watered down to use as a co-wash conditioner anyway.) Also, Pravana semi-permanents contain protein; after leaving that stuff on all day I had the softest, shiniest hair ever.

You can absolutely try using your regular conditioner as a leave-in. I scrunch it in in the shower, which works really well. Applying it to towel-dried hair doesn't work for me at all, it just makes my hair gunky, but YMMV.

Incidentally, I also have chemically treated hair--not as badly damaged as yours, but just because you can't see the damage doesn't mean it's not there--and I found that coconut oil didn't do anything for it. I've had much better luck with baby oil and avacado oil. So you should try different oils before writing them off entirely.

Good luck.

[Kat-Rinnè Naido]

So happy for you that your hair is feeling better. You can use the same conditioner or your deep conditioner as a leave-in since your hair loves it. But monitor it's feel after each use. I only do my protein treatment once a month even though my hair loves protein I am too scared of what could happen from an overload. For this reason I do it once.
Be careful of sleeping with conditioner overnight as I think conditioner treatment should not be left for longer than 30min.
Hopefully Lapushka or anyone else can elaborate and chime in.

[lapushka]

I'd be careful with too much protein, even though your hair may need it. You'll have to feel it from the state of your hair (too brittle = too much protein; too mushy = too much moisture). Once a week might be too much, might be better every 2 weeks, and see from there. Might even be good once a month, it depends on the damage and the person, and the hair (as always).

The Hask treatments are fabulous (there's a thread about those).

I would not sleep with an SMT, but if you've gotten good results with it, then that's what your hair wants and needs.

Good luck babying your hair, looks like you're off to a good start. :D

[Lize]

I have bleached hair (not extremely damaged though). I use Tresemme perfectly undone conditioner for CO washing. It's cone free and I don't get build up problems from it but it gives a lot of slip and my hair feels very healthy when I use it. My favorite CO conditioner so far.

[xoChesleyy]

I agree, animetor7! And I didn't know Organix had leave-ins.. Will certainly be checking this out along with the Biosilk!
Earlier I applied some VO5 to damp ends as a leave-in which my hair seemed to like, although I will probably just continue using this temporarily until I experiment with actual leave-ins to see if there's something I end up liking more.
You didn't "ramble" at all, as I appreciate all of the advice/recommendations given! :)

Robot Ninja, thanks for the link! I didn't know the Pravana semi-permanents contained protein but those are what I use, so good to hear!
I will have to try out more oils and see which ones work best for me; the only oil I have ever tried on my hair is coconut oil.
Do you normally dampen hair prior to applying oils or apply them to dry hair? (I've heard of people doing both but have also read that oils help lock in moisture so if that's the case, wouldn't damp be the better option?)

Thank you for the input Kat-Rinnè Naido! I think I'll try doing a protein treatment once every 3-4 weeks. I know that my deep conditioner (Aussie 3MM) contains protein but I will only be using it once a week so hopefully those small amounts of protein in between treatments won't be too much.. I certainly wouldn't want a protein overload either. :p

lapushka, are there any negative effects from leaving conditioner on overnight for SMTs? Aussie 3MM does contain protein, but if it is just a matter of protein, I could use a different protein-free conditioner for my SMTs.
I did have really good results this time but if leaving the conditioner on overnight could be damaging later on, I would rather opt for leaving it in only a couple hours rather than overnight!

Lize, I've actually never tried out Tresemme products (maybe forever ago when I was younger and just used whatever was in the shower :p). Glad to hear that it works well for you. I may try it out in the future!

I'm glad I'm on a good start to recovery now. At least now I know how my hair is when its got build-up and needs to be clarified, what to use for extra moisture, protein treatments, etc.

Yesterday I did a very extensive S&D with my hair divided into several sections and now it is feeling even better.
I will also be doing a small trim, because my ends do look slightly thinner from all the snipping (as lapushka said they would).

Next will be finding out what kind of leave-in/oils my hair likes and gradually trimming off the damage..

Big lesson learned and one thing is for certain-- I will never touch permanent dye/bleach again. :rolleyes:

[xoChesleyy]

Hey everyone! I just wanted to post one more update that I'm super happy about! :) I just dyed my hair with Pravana Vivids Violet (semi-permanent) and I am liking the results I got. My hair looks shiny and feels really soft.

I will be using only Pravana Violet from now on!

Here's a picture:
http://i68.tinypic.com/30caro9.jpg

My apologies for the messy updo and camera angle! I had to take a quick picture before bed. :)

[Mya]

Hello! Just wanted to add my opinion. Your hair looks great btw, I'm glad you found a dye that makes you happy.


1. Do you think the greasiness after showering is build-up? If so, what kind of clarifying shampoo should I try using and how often?

In my experience, damaged hair is more sensitive to conditioning products. Meaning that it can be weighed down more easily: more damaged = more porous = substances slip in (and out). So you should maybe use a lighter conditioner. Shampoo doesn't make a lot of difference in my experience.


2. A couple days after CO-washing, my hair (mostly my ends) gets dry again. Is this most likely from the bleach damage or should I try a different conditioner? Would coconut oil be beneficial to put on my ends daily or something else?

It is from the damage. Since hair became more porous/damaged, it can hardly retain moisture, especially the ends. Conditioning products and oils can help a bit, but cannot undo that. In my experience, damaged hair will easily look greasy with the tiniest bit of coconut oil.


4. Having bleach damaged hair, should I use coney or cone-free conditioners? Do coney conditioners prevent hair from taking in the moisture?

In my experience, cones give better results on damaged hair than on healthy hair, so it's worth to try them if you have damage. When my hair was bleach damaged, I used those post-wash professional hair masks bought at hairdressing supplies shops, it really made a difference. You might want to try that.

Also "liquid crystals" serums helped a lot. Just be careful not to get those with "Alcohol Denat" (denaturated) in the ingredients. Alcohol denat is used in leave-in products to speed up their drying process, but it will make your hair dry in the end.


I have a couple other tips:

- In my opinion, it might be Color Oops that made things go downhill. I have never used it myself, but I read the thread about it here on the forum and some details you told (the smell, the damage) remind me of that. You might want to read it.

- If you ever try bleach again in your life, please never apply it to your scalp. It might make your hair thinner due to scalp damage. Bleach chemicals cause tissue necrosis (here is an article (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3664529/)). Some people might not get that damage (or rather not get it right away), but it's not a gamble you would want to take.

[lapushka]

lapushka, are there any negative effects from leaving conditioner on overnight for SMTs? Aussie 3MM does contain protein, but if it is just a matter of protein, I could use a different protein-free conditioner for my SMTs.
I did have really good results this time but if leaving the conditioner on overnight could be damaging later on, I would rather opt for leaving it in only a couple hours rather than overnight!

Over a couple of hours an SMT already has done its thing, so there's really no need to keep it in overnight. But YMMV. Everyone is different. You could try leaving it on for 30min. to an H and seeing if it still has that effect. You'd need to do the exact same thing that you did when you left it in overnight (same routine). I'd try and compare it yourself, then seeing which is best. I would never leave anything on my scalp in particular on my head overnight, but that's just me. If you do take it to the scalp area!

Maybe hygral fatigue plays into this as wel. I'm not sure. But leaving it wet for so long can't be good...

[Acid]

so glad your hairs feeling a bit better and the purple looks absolutely stunning :)

i swear by Aphogee 2 minute keratin reconstructor for my platinum bleached hair, it says 5 mins on the bottle but i leave mine in overnight and condition it in the morning - as everyones hair is different id check on it every 15 minutes until you think your hairs done with it so you start to know your hairs tolerance without over proteining it. for conditioning i usually use a cheapy conditioner with argan oil or coconut oil in it.

did you use 40 vol developer by any chance? my friend used that on her virgin hair and it completely destroyed it similar to yours

[xoChesleyy]

Thanks for your response Mya! While I have never really been the type to bleach (with the exception of this past March and about 6 years ago), that whole thing about tissue necrosis is pretty terrifying. I never knew about that! Luckily though, I have certainly learned my lesson and won't be bleaching/dying again ever unless it's a semi-permanent. Hmm, maybe Color Oops was part of the culprit...? I have read such mixed things about Color Oops-- Some said it badly damaged their hair and caused dryness, whereas others have reported they didn't notice any visible damage. I still find it odd how healthy hair was affected that much so quickly when the bleach was left on barely over half the recommended time, unless it was a bad batch of bleach but there's no telling...:-(

Lapushka, thank you for that information! That's a good idea I'll try out when I do my next SMT. I'm hoping that I get the same results as last time, because I really can't stand sleeping with a shower cap on. The crinkling noises drive me nuts! Lol :p

Acid, the developer I had used was volume 30 Salon Care brand with one of those bleaching packets the Sally's employee recommended. Also, thank you very much! :-)

[Robot Ninja]

My personal experience with Color Oops: Didn't cause any noticeable damage, but also didn't work and made my whole apartment smell like egg farts for three days.

The purple looks great. I do find that Pravana is the best semi I've used as far as the "OMG my hair is so soft and shiny!" factor. Actually, the only downside is that it ain't cheap; otherwise I'd say it's the best semi I've used overall.