Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

Choosing a honey for honey lightening

Here is the Successful Honeys List
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, chestnut, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

Jarrah honey, from Australia, is known for its very high peroxide value and is a good choice for honey lightening. Information on Jarrah honey and current suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1266


Honey lightening boosters

Honey lightening boosters are; ground (powdered) cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil (EVOO).
Each one has a peroxide value that can contribute to the peroxide value of a recipe.

EVOO has a higher peroxide value than coconut oil. Suggested recipe amounts for the oils are 1 tablespoon or less in total, per treatment.

Each spice has a higher peroxide value than either oil. Both spices can be sensitizers. Patch test before using. Suggested recipe amounts for the spices are 1 - 2 tablespoons in total, per treatment.

Cardamom has a higher peroxide value than ground cinnamon and has been reported to wash out of the hair easier than ground cinnamon. There is a cinnamon caution. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2382

None of the boosters has a higher peroxide value than most honeys. (It depends on the honey though. Some honeys produce very little peroxide.)

[ktani]

Distilled water sources

In Canada - pharmacies and grocery stores

Where to buy distilled water in the US
http://www.hardforum.com/archive/ind...t-1121735.html

Where to find distilled water in the UK - check out battery top up water for additives
"Halfords or any other garage .... battery top up water."

".... off the shelf in Tesco- .... in the car accessory section. 1.50/litre."
"
"best option for UK .... de-ionised water meant for cars. I had a look at water for irons .... they are putting all sorts of rubbish into it."
http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/archive/...hp/t-3499.html

Where to buy distilled water in Europe - Location: er gaat niets boven groningen (Netherlands)
"at a drugstore. Any of them have distilled water .... about an euro per litre."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...threadid=63745

Where to buy distilled water in Russia
"$2 for 5 litres in auto parts shop."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...threadid=63745

I recommend distilled over deionized water but deionized water should work well too.

[ktani]

Notes on EVOO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) PV is short for Peroxide Value
"The PV is greatly reduced by the refining process used for most vegetable oils. Virgin olive oils are not exposed to such processes and the PVs permitted in these products are considerably higher. The IOOC and CAC standards permit extra-virgin olive oils to have PVs of up to 20 meq/kg, while pure olive oils, which by definition are blends of virgin and refined olive oils, must have PVs below 10 meq/kg."

In other words, the peroxide value of a pure evoo is going to be higher than that of a blend of evoo and olive oil, which would be about that of coconut oil.

Here is one source for cardamom essential oil and they sell samples, as well as provide information.

[ktani]

Outside of Finland, to duplicate Fethenwen's recipe, (Fethenwen, after 2 treatments, using cardamom essential oil , 1 tsp powdered cinnamon and distilled water, using the new dilution on 2 years of hennaed hair (the last 6 months, doing roots only)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3528, another picture of the new hair colour, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3553, recipe details http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3538, method details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3540), I suggest these options.

1. The best honey one can find for honey lightening. (Suggestions; Jarrah honey, Ambrosia Honey Co. honey, Naturally Preferred Fireweed honey available at Fred Meyer and Kroger stores). If a particular brand is unavailable, look for a dark coloured honey blend where you are, create your own blend, refer to this list, or try a honeydew honey. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, chestnut, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

2. The essential oil used was pure essential oil of cardamom, not an extract which is diluted and usually contains alcohol.

3. A pure evoo (it will have a higher peroxide value than a blend of evoo and refined olive oil)

4. Distilled water

5. powdered cinnamon

[ShaSha]

Ktani, I was wondering why the ratio of honey to water is 1/4?

Both times I had lighter hair I used more honey than that.

Basically because I have thin hair, and I was afraid that if I used too much water it would drip, drip and drip for the 1½ hours and all the honey would be in my shoulders... And since my hair is thin, and cannot keep much water the amount of honey at the 1/4 mixture would have been extremely minimal.

So... I decided to see what happens if I use a lot of honey and less water, and it did work.

I was just wondering if there is any harm in usin more honey than one part to four?

[ktani]

Ktani, I was wondering why the ratio of honey to water is 1/4?

Both times I had lighter hair I used more honey than that.

Basically because I have thin hair, and I was afraid that if I used too much water it would drip, drip and drip for the 1½ hours and all the honey would be in my shoulders... And since my hair is thin, and cannot keep much water the amount of honey at the 1/4 mixture would have been extremely minimal.

So... I decided to see what happens if I use a lot of honey and less water, and it did work.

I was just wondering if there is any harm in usin more honey than one part to four?

No, there is no harm at all but the results, in terms of possible colour change, depend on the honey used and the water. The ratio is based on this.

Later, I found out that the optimal pH for a honey to produce peroxide is pH 6. Most honeys on the market have a lower pH than that and using more water would raise that pH, depending of course on the water pH and its mineral content (minerals can deplete a honey lightening peroxide level).

If the SAM honey has a higher pH, less water would be needed to dilute it, to be at the optimal pH level to produce peroxide (honey can produce peroxide at a lower pH level but it would be less peroxide).

[ktani]

GlassEyes honey lightening on naturally black hair with the old recipe and dilution.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...6&postcount=10

GlassEyes recipe and method - 4 or 5 days a week for a month
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...6&postcount=12

GlassEyes on why the old recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...7&postcount=15

Honey lightening has progressed considerably since then.

I think his results would have been much faster and better with the new dilution, distilled water and new recipes but his method was perfect, IMO.

I added the honey the used to the Successful Honeys List here
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

[ShaSha]

Thans, Ktani.

When I came to LHC I just thought I'd like to grow my hair longer. Now I'm mixed up with pH's, effects of different herbs and so on...

But I'm not complaining, it's interesting.

[ktani]

Thans, Ktani.

When I came to LHC I just thought I'd like to grow my hair longer. Now I'm mixed up with pH's, effects of different herbs and so on...

But I'm not complaining, it's interesting.

You are most welcome! To help you out with the pH confusion, just keep doing what you are doing with honey lightening. You do not need to change anything with that, based on your results.

As for herbs/plants, most of those are acidic in any case, so you should be fine there too. If you are concerned about pH with plants, buy some pH papers, to test a herb/plant solution, to reassure yourself that what you are going to use is acidic. Hair and skin are healthier at an acidic pH, which is what the natural acid mantle of the body is, about pH 4.7.

This pH paper roll is similar to the one I have and measures pH from 4.5 to 7.5. The solution does not have to be 4.7 pH, just acidic and close to pH 5 if possible but if it is higher, like pH 5.5 to 6 or even 6.5, that is fine, IMO.

[ktani]

The optimal pH for honey to produce peroxide is 6. Most honeys on the market are more acidic than this and the spice boosters are too.

The peroxide in a honey lightening recipe can be depleted by; minerals, Vitamin C, heat and UV.

That is why distilled water (pH7), and the new dilution work so well, IMO. Together, they raise the pH level of the recipe and allow the honey to produce more peroxide than it can at lower concentrations (dilutions) and without minerals.

The exception to distilled or deionized water (both should work well), is tap water that has a pH of 7 and a very low to no mineral content.