Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

Honey lightening, Sun-In, UV Oxidation and Oxygen bleach

Conventional peroxide is about 1000 stronger than the level of the peroxide most honeys produce. Yet there have been enough reports on these boards, let alone the Honey threads, to confirm that honey can lighten hair colour.

I was curious about why Sun-In works with heat and UV, when both of those things are known to deplete or help decompose hydrogen peroxide. I was asked why honey lightening does not bleach towels or clothing.

This is what I knew.

The exzyme in honey that produces peroxide, is heat and light sensitive. But what if the peroxide is already produced, by letting a treatment sit for 1 hour, in advance of application?

This is what I learned from researching the subjects.

Conventional peroxide has stabilizers added to it, so that it can withstand handling and storage. That would make it less susceptible to decomposition from heat and light.

Honey lightening recipes have no added stabilizers. While honey lightening recipe ingredients naturally contain chelants that protect hair and skin from oxygen free radicals, they are not the same as those required to stabilize conventional peroxide.

Hair needs to be kept very wet with honey lightening to yield the best results based on reports, even when a treatment has been left to sit in advance of application. That may have to do with honey still producing peroxide after 1 hour and the honey lightening boosters also requiring more time to yield their peroxide.

I successfully lightend some freckles on the backs of my hands last year, but I had to keep the skin covered and wet the whole time. I wore plastic gloves for the 1 hour at a time I did the experiments, and had not let the solution sit for 1 hour, in advance of application.

UV accelerates the formation of cell damaging hydroxyl radicals, in conventional peroxide reactions with substances, (UV is damaging to cells on its own. It is not something I recommend to lighten hair or darken skin).

Honey lightening chelants/antioxidants prevent the formation of free radicals, but honey lightening recipe peroxide would be susceptible to breakdown from UV radiation.

Honey lightening works through oxidation. Oxygen bleaches do not lighten clothing or most coloured fabrics. Oxygen bleaches are colour-safe.



“2. What factors contribute to the decomposition of H2O2?
The primary factors contributing to H2O2 decomposition include: increasing temperature …. increasing pH (especially at pH > 6-8); increasing contamination (especially transition metals such as copper, manganese or iron); …. to a lesser degree, exposure to ultraviolet light. ….

4. What are H2O2 stabilizers …. Most commercial grades of H2O2 contain chelants and sequestrants which minimize its decomposition under normal storage …. handling conditions. In some applications (e.g. .... cosmetic formulations) a high degree of stabilization is needed; …. types of stabilizers used in H2O2 …. Colloidal stannate and sodium pyrophosphate …. traditional mainstays …. Other additives may include nitrate …. phosphoric acid.
http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2

UV oxidation
“Exposure of hydrogen peroxide to UV light leads to …. scission of the hydrogen peroxide molecule into two hydroxyl radicals.”
http://www.trojanuv.com/en/business/ECTadditionalinfo.aspx

Hydroxyl radicals
“…. can damage virtually all types of macromolecules: carbohydrates, nucleic acids (mutations), lipids (lipid peroxidation) and amino acids (e.g. conversion of Phe to m-Tyrosine and o-Tyrosine). The only means to protect important cellular structures is the use of antioxidants ….”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl_radical

“Advantages of Powdered Oxygen Bleach
…. best advantage of an oxygen bleach is that you can get rid of stubborn dirt and organic stains without having to use toxic …. hazardous materials like chlorine bleach. Oxygen bleaches are …. color-safe and won't bleach dyed fabrics like chlorine bleach will.”
http://oxygenbleach.homestead.com/files/

“Some non-chlorine bleaches contain slightly weaker oxidizing agents, which will oxidize the colored molecules in many common stains, but not the robust pigments of commercial textile dyes. That's what makes them "color-safe."
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem99533.htm

[ktani]

Honey lightening on hennaed hair

Henna results vary with the individual. There is the water chosen (tap vs distilled), the recipe (whether or not lemon juice is used in the mix), the quality of the henna (dye content, sift, crop year and age (stale henna), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

Honey lightening has its variables too in terms of results. There is the water chosen, the honey (peroxide level), the recipe (lemon juice or Viamin C in an ingredient, heat, UV, and minerals deplete peroxide), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

However, honey lightening, using the new dilution, with a good peroxide producing honey, the right water (distilled or deionized), recipe, and method, has been reported to work on various types of henna, even baq henna.

Pictures of honey lightening on hennaed hair

kimki - on hennaed hair - after 2 treatments, 1 with ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=958

kimki's recipe - This was before the new dilution, which has been reported to yield better results. Chamomile tea is no longer recommended for honey lightening. It can add gold tones to hair.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=960

kimki - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=822

My response to kimki's questions
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=824

soleluna - on hennaed hair (baq Egyptian henna) - the new dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1375

soleluna - recipe details and the condition of her hair following honey lightening Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1377

LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 4 treatments - with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following 4 honey lightening treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1651

[ktani]

Storing honey lightening ingredients

Honey
"Store honey at room temperature with .... lid on tightly."
http://www.honeybeecentre.com/qs/page/4992/4983/57

Ground spices
"Ground spices will keep .... 1 year .... Spices should be kept away from the heat, light and humidity .... prevent flavor and color loss." http://clark.wsu.edu/family/General-food-safety/CleaningOutKitchenCupboard.pdf

Coconut oil
"Coconut oil's fatty acid profile .... about 92% saturated fat, making it very stable and safe to store at room temperature."
http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=247

"To ideally safeguard the nutritive value and longevity of your oils, keep them in a cool (40° F to 72° F), dark cupboard until opening .... then store them in your refrigerator. Storage under these conditions provides .... shelf life of 10-14 months for unrefined oils, and 14-20 months for refined oils."
http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=16


Extra Virgin Olive Oil
"Olive oil connoisseurs recommend storing .... extra-virgin olive oils at room temperature."
http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/how-olive-oil-works3.htm

Water
Store .... water .... in a cool, dark place.
Replace water every six months."
http://www.ci.annapolis.md.us/info.asp?page=2839

Opened water
"To minimize exposure to bacteria, open a container just before use and then refrigerate it .... If no refrigeration .... available, keep the container up high, away from children and pets.
Direct heat and light .... slowly damage plastic containers resulting in eventual leakage .... they should be stored in a dark, cool and dry place.
Water can also be stored in a freezer."
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/SS439

[ljkforu]

I'm having good results removing soft black Natural Instincts brand hair color from my bottom 8 inches.

I know it is the wrong proportions but since it worked for me I stuck with it.

I measured the honey to water volume on my bottle and it was 1 oz by volume fireweed honey to 3 oz by volume tap water (soft new pipes). 1 T. Freshly ground Cardamom seeds and 1 T freshly ground papery Cinnamon.

I put this on the black ends and slept with it on my hair overnight with a plastic shower cap and towel underneath.

I got decent results but very crunchy ends. It actually scared me a little because they looked like my cat had tried to digest them. Fortunately Ktani told me to shampoo really well, condition and use my acid rinse (1/8 t vit C in 20 oz water) which I was out of that prior week.

Hair is all back to normal with no damage it appears that it really was just honey buildup and not fry damage.

The top picture is after and the bottom 2 are before

[ktani]

I'm having good results removing soft black Natural Instincts brand hair color from my bottom 8 inches.

I know it is the wrong proportions but since it worked for me I stuck with it.

I measured the honey to water volume on my bottle and it was 1 oz by volume fireweed honey to 3 oz by volume tap water (soft new pipes). 1 T. Freshly ground Cardamom seeds and 1 T freshly ground papery Cinnamon.

I put this on the black ends and slept with it on my hair overnight with a plastic shower cap and towel underneath.

I got decent results but very crunchy ends. It actually scared me a little because they looked like my cat had tried to digest them. Fortunately Ktani told me to shampoo really well and use my acid rinse which I was out of that week.

Hair is all back to normal with no damage it appears that it really was just honey buildup and not fry damage.

Just to be clear, your recipe is not the new dilution but it is the right dilution for your honey and water, based on your results.

Most honeys on the market are between pH 3.2 and 4.5. However, there are honeys with a pH at or closer to 6, which is the optimal pH for a honey to produce peroxide. With the right water, either distilled or tap water with a pH close to or at 7 and very few minerals, a lower dilution or concentration should work very well.

[ljkforu]

Just to be clear, your recipe is not the new dilution but it is the right dilution for your honey and water, based on your results.

Most honeys on the market are between pH 3.2 and 4.5. However, there are honeys with a pH at or closer to 6, which is the optimal pH for a honey to produce peroxide. With the right water, either distilled or tap water with a pH close to or at 7 and very few minerals, a lower dilution or concentration should work very well.

I figure don't fix it if it isn't broken. If I make it somewhere else I'll follow the recipe correctly.

[ktani]

I figure don't fix it if it isn't broken. If I make it somewhere else I'll follow the recipe correctly.

I forgot to mention that I am glad that the honey residue was removed and that you are happy with the condition of your hair.

Your recipe is great with that honey and water. If you change honey brands or type, you may have different results. I recommend that you stay with the one you have, regardless of where you make the recipe.

[ktani]

I'm having good results removing soft black Natural Instincts brand hair color from my bottom 8 inches.

I know it is the wrong proportions but since it worked for me I stuck with it.

I measured the honey to water volume on my bottle and it was 1 oz by volume fireweed honey to 3 oz by volume tap water (soft new pipes). 1 T. Freshly ground Cardamom seeds and 1 T freshly ground papery Cinnamon.

I put this on the black ends and slept with it on my hair overnight with a plastic shower cap and towel underneath.

I got decent results but very crunchy ends. It actually scared me a little because they looked like my cat had tried to digest them. Fortunately Ktani told me to shampoo really well, condition and use my acid rinse (1/8 t vit C in 20 oz water) which I was out of that prior week.

Hair is all back to normal with no damage it appears that it really was just honey buildup and not fry damage.

The top picture is after and the bottom 2 are before

I see that yo got the pictures up. Thank you so much for posting them. Now I can see why you are so pleased with honey lightening.

[ktani]

Honey lightening on dark, dyed hair


Alley Cat - on chemically dyed, almost black, previously hennaed hair (which shows as red) - 4 to 1 dilution - after 9 treatments - 8 with no conditioner - 3 with ground cinnamon - the last 5 with just water and honey, the 3 most recent with distilled water and the new dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1492

Aley Cat - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1495

Alley Cat - more on the condition of her hair following her 9th honey lightening treatment - which was with Jarrah honey, which has a very high peroxide value
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1596

gallows gallery - dyed black hair over henna on the condition of her hair after 6 honey lightening treatments, the new dilution and Jarrah honey
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2637

gallows gallery earlier pics, dyed black hair over henna, the new dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2638

gallows gallery new pics, dyed black hair over henna, the new dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2780

nayver pictures on dark dyed hair, with the new dilution, after 1 treatment, with distilled water
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2868

nayver pictures, after 2 treatments, with the new dilution, using distilled water
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2878

nayver - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening this time (she had done it previously)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2861

ljkforu - on previously black dyed ends, hennaed hair, with tap water, ground cinnamon and ground cardamom, and the condition of her hair.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3335

ljkforu - more information on her honey lightening recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3270

ljkforu - feedback from those around her, in real life
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3282

lundmir, after 1 treatment, of honey, distilled water and ground cinnamon, on previously dyed and henned hair
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3989, method and washing out details, - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=3991

[ktani]

Honey lightening on hennaed hair

Henna results vary with the individual. There is the water chosen (tap vs distilled), the recipe (whether or not lemon juice is used in the mix), the quality of the henna (dye content, sift, crop year and age (stale henna), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

Honey lightening has its variables too in terms of results. There is the water chosen, the honey (peroxide level), the recipe (lemon juice or Viamin C in an ingredient, heat, UV, and minerals deplete peroxide), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

However, honey lightening, using the new dilution, with a good peroxide producing honey, the right water (distilled or deionized), recipe, and method, has been reported to work on various types of henna, even baq henna.

Pictures of honey lightening on hennaed hair

kimki - on hennaed hair - after 2 treatments, 1 with ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=958

kimki's recipe - This was before the new dilution, which has been reported to yield better results. Chamomile tea is no longer recommended for honey lightening. It can add gold tones to hair.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=960

kimki - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=822

My response to kimki's questions
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=824

soleluna - on hennaed hair (baq Egyptian henna) - the new dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1375

soleluna - recipe details and the condition of her hair following honey lightening Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1377

LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 4 treatments - with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following 4 honey lightening treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1651