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Thread: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

  1. #3051
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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Happy Holidays Everyone!

  2. #3052
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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Honey lightening, Sun-In, UV Oxidation and Oxygen bleach

    Conventional peroxide is about 1000 stronger than the level of the peroxide most honeys produce. Yet there have been enough reports on these boards, as well as in the Honey threads, past and current (this one), to confirm that honey can lighten hair colour.

    I was curious about why Sun-In works with heat and UV, when both of those things are known to deplete or help decompose hydrogen peroxide. I was asked why honey lightening does not bleach towels or clothing.

    This is what I knew.

    The exzyme in honey that produces peroxide, is heat and light sensitive. But what if the peroxide is already produced, by letting a treatment sit for 1 hour, in advance of application?

    This is what I learned from researching the subjects.

    Conventional peroxide has stabilizers added to it, so that it can withstand handling and storage. That would make it less susceptible to decomposition from heat and light.

    Honey lightening recipes have no added stabilizers. While honey lightening recipe ingredients naturally contain chelants that protect hair and skin from oxygen free radicals, they are not the same as those required to stabilize conventional peroxide.

    Hair needs to be kept very wet with honey lightening to yield the best results based on reports, even when a treatment has been left to sit in advance of application. That may have to do with honey still producing peroxide after 1 hour and the honey lightening boosters also requiring more time to yield their peroxide.

    I successfully lightend some freckles on the backs of my hands last year, but I had to keep the skin covered and wet the whole time. I wore plastic gloves for the 1 hour at a time I did the experiments, and had not let the solution sit for 1 hour, in advance of application.

    UV accelerates the formation of cell damaging hydroxyl radicals, in conventional peroxide reactions with substances, (UV is damaging to cells on its own. It is not something I recommend to lighten hair or darken skin).

    Honey lightening chelants/antioxidants prevent the formation of free radicals, but honey lightening recipe peroxide would be susceptible to breakdown from UV radiation.

    Honey lightening works through oxidation. Oxygen bleaches do not lighten clothing or most coloured fabrics. Oxygen bleaches are colour-safe.



    “2. What factors contribute to the decomposition of H2O2?
    The primary factors contributing to H2O2 decomposition include: increasing temperature …. increasing pH (especially at pH > 6-8); increasing contamination (especially transition metals such as copper, manganese or iron); …. to a lesser degree, exposure to ultraviolet light. ….

    4. What are H2O2 stabilizers …. Most commercial grades of H2O2 contain chelants and sequestrants which minimize its decomposition under normal storage …. handling conditions. In some applications (e.g. .... cosmetic formulations) a high degree of stabilization is needed; …. types of stabilizers used in H2O2 …. Colloidal stannate and sodium pyrophosphate …. traditional mainstays …. Other additives may include nitrate …. phosphoric acid.
    http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2

    UV oxidation
    “Exposure of hydrogen peroxide to UV light leads to …. scission of the hydrogen peroxide molecule into two hydroxyl radicals.”
    http://www.trojanuv.com/en/business/ECTadditionalinfo.aspx

    Hydroxyl radicals
    “…. can damage virtually all types of macromolecules: carbohydrates, nucleic acids (mutations), lipids (lipid peroxidation) and amino acids (e.g. conversion of Phe to m-Tyrosine and o-Tyrosine). The only means to protect important cellular structures is the use of antioxidants ….”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl_radical

    “Advantages of Powdered Oxygen Bleach
    Oxygen bleaches are also color-safe and won't bleach dyed fabrics like chlorine bleach will.”
    http://oxygenbleach.homestead.com/files/

    “Some non-chlorine bleaches contain slightly weaker oxidizing agents, which will oxidize the colored molecules in many common stains, but not the robust pigments of commercial textile dyes. That's what makes them "color-safe."
    http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem99533.htm
    Last edited by ktani; September 9th, 2010 at 05:34 AM. Reason: adjust text

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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Does that mean the honey lightening liquid should stay in a dark place while the peroxide is forming?

    Soft hair that is nice to sit on - now I'm bragging!

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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Honey lightening on hennaed hair
    Updated with Heidi 234's pictures

    Henna results vary with the individual. There is the water chosen (tap vs distilled), the recipe (whether or not lemon juice is used in the mix), the quality of the henna (dye content, sift, crop year and age (stale henna), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

    Honey lightening has its variables too in terms of results. There is the water chosen, the honey (peroxide level), the recipe (lemon juice or Viamin C in an ingredient, heat, UV, and minerals deplete peroxide), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

    However, honey lightening, using the new dilution, with a good peroxide producing honey, the right water (distilled or deionized), recipe, and method, has been reported to work on various types of henna, even baq henna.

    Pictures of honey lightening on hennaed hair

    kimki - on hennaed hair - after 2 treatments, 1 with ground cinnamon - no conditioner
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=958

    kimki's recipe - This was before the new dilution, which has been reported to yield better results. Chamomile tea is no longer recommended for honey lightening. It can add gold tones to hair.
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=960

    kimki - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=822

    My response to kimki's questions
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=824

    soleluna - on hennaed hair (baq Egyptian henna) - the new dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1375

    soleluna - recipe details and the condition of her hair following honey lightening Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1377

    LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 4 treatments - with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following 4 honey lightening treatments
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1651

    Heidi 234 after 2 treatments and the condition of her hair, the new dilution
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2963
    Last edited by ktani; December 24th, 2008 at 02:41 PM. Reason: adjust text

  5. #3055
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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Lighting can be tricky with honey lighting pictures.

    nayver -on the condition of her hair following honey lightening this time (she had done it previously)
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=347982&postcount=2861

    nayver pictutes on dark dyed hair, with the new dilution, after 1 treatment
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=348680&postcount=2868

    More nayver pictures, after 2 treatments, with the new dilution
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=349878&postcount=2878
    Last edited by ktani; December 24th, 2008 at 03:06 PM. Reason: clarification

  6. #3056
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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    I had stopped recording pictures although I knew where everything was, lol.

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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Heidi_234 View Post
    Does that mean the honey lightening liquid should stay in a dark place while the peroxide is forming?
    I missed this, sorry.

    A honey lightening recipe shoud be kept out of bright light when sitting to release peroxide, yes. It does not have to be kept in the dark, IMO.

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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Quote Originally Posted by ktani View Post
    I missed this, sorry.

    A honey lightening recipe shoud be kept out of bright light when sitting to release peroxide, yes. It does not have to be kept in the dark.
    okay then. I just thought I might have killed some peroxide last time by letting it sit in the bathroom, the most lightened up room in my house.
    Hey I made it to the honey lightening hall of fame at times like this I wish I gave more thought to my username, instead of typing 234 mindlessly

    Soft hair that is nice to sit on - now I'm bragging!

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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Heidi_234 View Post
    okay then. I just thought I might have killed some peroxide last time by letting it sit in the bathroom, the most lightened up room in my house.
    Hey I made it to the honey lightening hall of fame at times like this I wish I gave more thought to my username, instead of typing 234 mindlessly
    It depends on where the light is coming from in your bathroom. If it is coming from a window and strong daylight, that is not a good idea, IMO.

    Sorry about taking so long to include your pictures in the list but if someone is not sure about their results, I hesitate now.

    I have posted pictures, only to have people change their minds abour their results later, even though the pictures show clear lightening to me.

    And I like your online name, lol.

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    Default Re: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

    Quote Originally Posted by ktani View Post
    It depends on where the light is coming from in your bathroom. If it is coming from a window and strong daylight, that is not a good idea, IMO.

    Sorry about taking so long to include your pictures in the list but if someone is not sure about their results, I hesitate now.

    I have posted pictures, only to have people change their minds abour their results later, even though the pictures show clear lightening to me.

    And I like your online name, lol.
    I keep that in mind. I plan to do one or two more honey lightening before my PP henna.
    It's understandable. Well it is hard to know if it worked, because the change is subtle and it's hard to notice unless compared to what it used to be, and photos are not reliable due to light and settings differences. Every photo, especially if done on the auto mode on your camera, is taken with different settings. Even color correction in Photoshop will only contribute to it's unreliability.
    Huh, thanks cheers

    Soft hair that is nice to sit on - now I'm bragging!

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