Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

Success! I tried the currently recommended recipe tonight and got definite results!

I'd tried the old way with conditioner a few times (a while back), and never got a noticeable result. My hair is hennaed, with lighter, previously chemically dyed ends. I've decided to grow out the henna (because it's flattening my curls) and was/am hoping to make my med.brown roots, my too-raspberry-toned (another reason I'm quitting henna) henna-over-virgin hair, and my lighter, warmer, henna-over-dye ends.....BLEND!

Well, I'm pretty sure the raspberry tone is GONE (praise be) and replaced by a warm auburn, but I'll need to wait for daytime (that tone shows most in indirect sunlight) to be sure. But it's definitely warmer, and lighter. And my brown roots are lighter and a wee bit orangey-reddish, which is what I wanted. My ends were already lighter than I wanted, so I coated them with a cone-filled leave-in before the treatment, so the honey wouldn't work on them. Seems to have worked, they look the same.

I used 2 tblsp. of honey, stirred into a measuring cup containing 3/4 c. distilled water. Poured in spray bottle, and applied about 2/3rds of the liquid immediately (because I intended to leave in at least 2 hrs.) to freshly shampooed, slightly damp hair (with aforementioned leave-in on ends). Covered with a disposable shower cap, and a towel turban to catch drips.

After about an hour, I took of the coverings and re-wet my hair with the remaining liquid, then covered again. I'm glad I did this, because the hair was no longer soaking wet when I unwrapped, just very damp. I planned to rinse after another hour, but got into a movie and left it on another 2. So, 3 hrs. all together.

I rinsed, ACV rinsed, and CO'ed all but my scalp (CO and my scalp don't mix). My hair's now soft, very curly, and shiny.


Sorry this was so long, I'm just so into this now that it worked!

Thank you for the report. No worries about its length.

I am really pleased for you that you got the lightening you wanted, so far, as you can determine from the lighting.

I was confused by the rewetting until you explained that your hair was just damp after 1 hour.

I think that you should alter your method to include a swim cap, to keep the hair very wet for the whole time that a treatment is on your hair or try a plastic bag or saran that fits securely.

You should then only need 1 hour to get the lightening you want and it should be more convenient. By doing this your results should not only be faster but more even too, although covering the ends the way you did sounds perfect to get what you wanted. Shower caps seem to be a problem in being securable and keeping the hair very wet.

However, if you are pleased with your method, and it works for you, it is up to you.

I look forward to hearing how your hair looks in daylight and the condition of your hair.

For hennaed hair, I recommend adding 1 or 2 of the honey lightening boosters, also to help speed results.

After patch testing, powdered cardamom or ground cinnamon are popular choices, along with 1/2 to 1 tablespoon of evoo or coconut oil.

For the amount of your recipe, you should only need 1 tablespoon or less (1/2) tablespoon of a spice.

[ktani]

Methods of application and covering a honey lightening treatment

The hair needs to be very wet both before being covered and while a treatment is on the hair for the recommended 1 hour.

A treatment can be applied with; a pastry, basting, tint, or blush brush, spray, or applicator bottle. The brushes allow more control, the bottles faster application. When spices are used, a bottle needs a wider opening.

I have recommended that extra treatment be withheld, until the end of application (especially when doing roots only), to make sure that any hair that has dried during the process, gets rewet, beore covering.

Covering a treatment can be with a secure plastic bag (I use freezer bags and stretch the opening, for my catnip treatments), a secured shower cap (this has been reported to be problematic), plastic wrap, (combinations can also be done) or a swim cap, which IMO, is the best choice. Also recommened, is to use saran wrap under a lycra swim cap. It does not squeeze out too much water and the treatment does not drip as much with this method.

Here is some information on swim caps.

A dry towel or any absorbant material, is not recommended for covering the hair, because it will absorb the needed moisture from a treatment, drying the hair and making the treatment useless in those areas, most likely the very top layers of the hair. If a honey lightening treatment dries on the hair, lightenig will stop or not happen at all. A wet towel has been reported to be used successfully to help stop drips, while not helping to dry hair.

Misting can also be done with the hair uncovered but the hair needs constant misting IMO, to stay very wet.

The hair once covered, should not need rewetting, but if the hair starts to dry because the plastic has slipped, or a shower cap is not secured, it will need to be done. Ideally, with the right covering secured, rewetting will not be necessary.

While 1 hour is the recommended time that a treatment needs to left on the hair, it can be left on the hair longer than that with no worries.

If a treatment is left to sit for 1 hour at room temperature, to produce peroxide, 1 hour should be more than enough time on the hair per treatment. It has also been reported, that using a treatment without letting it sit out in advance of application, and only leaving it on the hair for 1 hour, is sufficient to get the results wanted.

[ktani]

I have redone the "Covering a honey lightening treatment" link in the first post, and replaced it with the post above this.

[ktani]

Adding "extras" like thickeners or conventional peroxide to a honey lightening recipe is not recommended.

I researched thickeners. All of the the ones I looked into, from cornstarch to gums, to gelatin to flax seed, to cellulose, are not compatible with the unstabilized hydrogen peroxide (as opposed to the stabilized conventional kind) of a honey lightening recipe and can deplete the peroxide levels.

If conventional peroxide is added to a recipe, there would not be protection from hair damage, because the protective flavonoids in a honey lightening treatment need to be used as a pre treatment before conventional peroxide is used, and the peroxide applied over them, or they need to be formulated into the peroxide itself. In honey lightening, the flavonoids are already in the ingredients that produce peroxide.

Here is a thread about that, on helping to protect hair from damage from conventional peroxide/bleach in hair colour. An explanation of how the elements found in honey lightening recipes protect hair from damage and the research that supports this, is also in the thread. There are reports on how coconut oil, (which contains a protective chelator (the flavonoids are chelators), has been effective against hair damage, used as a pre treatment, with a higher level peroxide, conventional hair colour, applied over it.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=10495

[Velouria]

I forgot to mention what type of honey I used: Aunt Sue's Raw-Wild Natural. It doesn't say what the plant source is, but I would imagine that wild honey would always be an unknown blend.

Looking at my hair in the lighting conditions where the raspberryishness had previously been the most evident, I can still see it. There was a definite lifting/warming of it, though. I think a few more treatments should get all of it out.

I think I will try adding cinnamon next time. The oils are out because I try to minimizing shampooing, and as I have to shampoo before the treatment, adding a mixture containing oils to my root area would necessitate another shampoo, which my hair-type can't take.

I'll try a bag next time, maybe with a shower cap on top. I don't have the skill to properly wrap my head in saran, as I learned from hennaing. A swim cap would, I'm sure, be best, but I can't afford any inessential purchases right now.

[ktani]

I forgot to mention what type of honey I used: Aunt Sue's Raw-Wild Natural. It doesn't say what the plant source is, but I would imagine that wild honey would always be an unknown blend.

Looking at my hair in the lighting conditions where the raspberryishness had previously been the most evident, I can still see it. There was a definite lifting/warming of it, though. I think a few more treatments should get all of it out.

I think I will try adding cinnamon next time. The oils are out because I try to minimizing shampooing, and as I have to shampoo before the treatment, adding a mixture containing oils to my root area would necessitate another shampoo, which my hair-type can't take.

I'll try a bag next time, maybe with a shower cap on top. I don't have the skill to properly wrap my head in saran, as I learned from hennaing. A swim cap would, I'm sure, be best, but I can't afford any inessential purchases right now.

Thank you for the name of the honey. I just added it to the Successful Honeys List.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

Both ground cinnamon and ground cardamom would be fine.

You do not have to wash your hair before a honey lightening treatment. If your do not have any leave-in like aloe gel or conditioner or other product build-up on your hair, you can do a treatment on unwashed hair.

A treatment does not have to be washed out of the hair with shampoo. You can CO it out or just rinse.

A bag and shower cap sounds fine, as long as the plastic is secure.

I am glad to read that the colour has slightly lifted, in daylight.

How is the condition of your hair?

[ktani]

A breakdown of the newest honey lightening recommendations, which have been reported to be working out very well. This is all in the recommendations post in my signature.

Patch test any of the ingredients not previously used on scalp or skin.

1. Choose a honey - the Successful Honeys List
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source.

Jarrah honey - highly recommended - it has a very high peroxide value. More information and suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1266

Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

2. Use distilled water only. It contains no minerals. Minerals can deplete the recipe peroxide (so can Vitamin C, see #5). Conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening. Its pH, ingredients and per centage of water can interfere with results. The same applies to coconut cream and milk (they also contain minerals and Vitamin C, as well as not enough water to properly dilute honey).

3. Use the new dilution (4 x the amount of water to honey by weight) - e.g. 1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup US (1/2 cup Metric) or 12 tablespoons distilled water. 50 g honey needs 200 g distilled water etc. Here is a conversion link.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conve...surements.html

4. Do not apply heat to any of the recipe ingredients at any time. Peroxide containing boosters are ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil. Suggested amounts per recipe are; 1-2 tablespoons for the spices, 1 tablespoon or less for the oils.

5. Do not add lemon juice, or any other ingredient that contains Vitamin C to a recipe, like tomato products, which are no longer recommended. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C, and is depleted in doing so.

6. Mix the treatment at room temperature and let it sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to allow the honey to produce peroxide in advance of application or use it right away and the honey will produce peroxide while on the hair.

7. Apply the treatment to wet or dry hair if there is no aloe gel on it - aloe gel contains Vitamin C, or a leave-in treatment with Vitamin C, heavy residue, or a large amount of oil on the hair (a large amount of oil will act as a barrier to the water). If there is, wash or rinse the hair first. The treatment can be applied with a tint, blush, pastry brush and/or a spray or squirt bottle.

8. Pin up, then cover the hair securely with plastic (wearing a swim cap is recommended), to keep it out of the way, competely wet (the hair needs to be very wet with the treatment, both before and while covered) and contain drips. Leave the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour.

[SeaPhoenix]

Hey! I just wanted to add a little something. I think after all this time, maybe the honey recipes did work a bit after all. I just compared the henna'd ends of my hair to an old photo of the color I used to keep my henna'd hair up until the time I decided to stop coloring.. Wow - what a difference in color! Though I think some of this might have been due to natural fading - I don't think it would have faded so dramatically over this past year without the frequent attempts with honey lightening. Here's my forum post about it, if you're interested:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=14695

[ktani]

Hey! I just wanted to add a little something. I think after all this time, maybe the honey recipes did work a bit after all. I just compared the henna'd ends of my hair to an old photo of the color I used to keep my henna'd hair up until the time I decided to stop coloring.. Wow - what a difference in color! Though I think some of this might have been due to natural fading - I don't think it would have faded so dramatically over this past year without the frequent attempts with honey lightening. Here's my forum post about it, if you're interested:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=14695

Henna has been known to fade but I agree with you. I do not think it would have faded anywhere near this much on its own with the amount of henna that you had on your hair.

You are not the first to not be able to see honey lightening results gradual lightening, until pictures were compared.

Different recipes work differently too. The new dilution recipes have been reported to work much better than previous dilutions and recipes.

Your hair looks great, IMO.

I am pleased for you that you are pleased with your hair.

[Velouria]

Thank you for the name of the honey. I just added it to the Successful Honeys List.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

Both ground cinnamon and ground cardamom would be fine.

You do not have to wash your hair before a honey lightening treatment. If your do not have any leave-in like aloe gel or conditioner or other product build-up on your hair, you can do a treatment on unwashed hair.

A treatment does not have to be washed out of the hair with shampoo. You can CO it out or just rinse.

A bag and shower cap sounds fine, as long as the plastic is secure.

I am glad to read that the colour has slightly lifted, in daylight.

How is the condition of your hair?

I almost always have leave-in, oil, and gel (either homemade flaxseed or aloe) in my hair. All 3 at once! It's necessary for frizz-control, especially on my damaged ends. So, I think I should shampoo before one of these treatments.

I used conditioner (and a vinegar rinse) to wash out my treatment, but what I meant was that if I added one of the oils to the treatment, I'd need to shampoo afterwards, as I do get oily in the root area; I oil normally, but only from the ears down. I can't do a full CO-type wash, as conditioner on my scalp makes me shed. I alternate WO- type washes except with conditioner from the ears down, with shampoo bars, and an occasional shampoo with a mild SMS (sodium myreth sulfate) product. This last is what I used before the honey treatment, as the shampoo bars leave a coating that I thought might interfere.

The condition of my hair right now is wonderful; soft, shiny, and hydrated. Except for the last few inches of dye damage, that's wretched, but perhaps less so than usual.

I'm planning on doing another treatment tonight, but I'm combining it into a yogurt DT. I know you won't approve, ktani;and I do fully realize that the honey won't work optimally like this, but I've been meaning to use the yogurt anyway, and adding honey to it might lighten a bit more, and seems beneficial to my hair anyway.

I'm going to mix yogurt, honey, ev olive oil, and a bit of cinnamon.
I won't shampoo before it, as, for once, I have nothing in my hair but a little oil on the ends. I expect to be greasy afterwards (I'm using full-fat yogurt), so I'll wash it out with a shampoo bar.