Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

With the new dilution, the 2 most common amounts of honey reported to be used are 1/8 cup and 1/4 cup.

1/8 cup honey = 2 tablespoons and requires 6 oz of distilled water or 3/4 cup US (1/2 cup Metric). In tablespoons this would be 2 tablespoons honey to 12 tablespoons distilled water

1/8 cup is approximately 40 ml, 40 ml honey would require between 170 to 180 ml of distilled water. Exact measurements to the ml are not important, IMO, just close enough.

*** For less to no drips, 1 tablespoon honey can be used to 6 tablespoons distilled water, on wet hair.
In tablespoons, it is 1 tablespoon honey to 6 tablespoons distilled water, 2 to 12, 3 to 18 etc. ***

1/4 cup honey = 4 tablespoons and requires 12 oz of distilled water or 1 1/2 cups US (1 cup Metric), or 4 tablespoons honey to 24 tablespoons distilled water.

The honey conversion link
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conve...surements.html

You need to convert the amount of honey by weight x 4 to get the correct amount of distilled water required. Converting honey to fluid oz gives you less distilled water than the amount required. Honey is heavier than water.
20 grams of honey needs 80 grams of distilled water, 10 grams of honey needs 40 grams of distilled water etc.

1/8 cup honey (2 tablespoons) = 1 fluid oz x 4 = 4 oz of distilled water required. This is not the correct amount for the new dilution. 1/8 cup honey weighs or = 1.5 oz x 4 = 6 oz of distilled water required. This is the correct amount for the new dilution.

It is very important to keep the hair very wet with the treatment before and while covered for the hour that it is on the hair. A swim cap is recommended to keep the hair very wet and securely covered.

[ktani]

Distilled water sources

In Canada - pharmacies and grocery stores

Where to buy distilled water in the US
http://www.hardforum.com/archive/ind...t-1121735.html

Where to find distilled water in the UK - check out battery top up water for additives
"Halfords or any other garage .... battery top up water."

".... off the shelf in Tesco- .... in the car accessory section. 1.50/litre."
"
"best option for UK .... de-ionised water meant for cars. I had a look at water for irons .... they are putting all sorts of rubbish into it."
http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/archive/...hp/t-3499.html

Where to buy distilled water in Europe - Location: er gaat niets boven groningen (Netherlands)
"at a drugstore. Any of them have distilled water .... about an euro per litre."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...threadid=63745

Where to buy distilled water in Russia
"$2 for 5 litres in auto parts shop."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...threadid=63745

I recommend distilled over deionized water but deionized water should work well too.

[ktani]

Choosing a honey for honey lightening

Here is the Successful Honeys List
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

Jarrah honey, from Australia, is known for its very high peroxide value and is a good choice for honey lightening. Information on Jarrah honey and current suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1266


Honey lightening boosters

Honey lightening boosters are; ground (powdered) cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil (EVOO).
Each one has a peroxide value that can contribute to the peroxide value of a recipe.

EVOO has a higher peroxide value than coconut oil. Suggested recipe amounts for the oils are 1 tablespoon or less in total, per treatment.

Each spice has a higher peroxide value than either oil. Both spices can be sensitizers. Patch test before using. Suggested recipe amounts for the spices are 1 - 2 tablespoons in total, per treatment.

Cardamom has a higher peroxide value than ground cinnamon and has been reported to wash out of the hair easier than ground cinnamon. There is a cinnamon caution. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2382

None of the boosters has a higher peroxide value than most honeys. (It depends on the honey though. Some honeys produce very little peroxide.)

[ktani]

Honey lightening, Sun-In, UV Oxidation and Oxygen bleach

Conventional peroxide is about 1000 stronger than the level of the peroxide most honeys produce. Yet there have been enough reports on these boards, let alone the Honey threads, to confirm that honey can lighten hair colour.

Conventional peroxide causes hair damage because of oxygen free radicals. Honey lightening has not been reported to cause hair damage, and the protectice flavonoids in honey and honey lightening recipe ingredients, prevent oxygen free radicals from forming.

I was curious about why Sun-In works with heat and UV, when both of those things are known to deplete or help decompose hydrogen peroxide. I was asked why honey lightening does not bleach towels or clothing.

This is what I knew.

The exzyme in honey that produces peroxide, is heat and light sensitive. But what if the peroxide is already produced, by letting a treatment sit for 1 hour, in advance of application?

This is what I learned from researching the subjects.

Conventional peroxide has stabilizers added to it, so that it can withstand handling and storage. That would make it less susceptible to decomposition from heat and light.

Honey lightening recipes have no added stabilizers. While honey lightening recipe ingredients naturally contain chelants that protect hair and skin from oxygen free radicals, they are not the same as those required to stabilize conventional peroxide.

Hair needs to be kept very wet with honey lightening to yield the best results based on reports, even when a treatment has been left to sit in advance of application. That may have to do with honey still producing peroxide after 1 hour and the honey lightening boosters also requiring more time to yield their peroxide.

I successfully lightend some freckles on the backs of my hands last year, but I had to keep the skin covered and wet the whole time. I wore plastic gloves for the 1 hour at a time I did the experiments, and had not let the solution sit for 1 hour, in advance of application.

UV accelerates the formation of cell damaging hydroxyl radicals, in conventional peroxide reactions with substances, (UV is damaging to cells on its own. It is not something I recommend to lighten hair or darken skin).

Honey lightening chelants/antioxidants prevent the formation of free radicals, but honey lightening recipe peroxide would be susceptible to breakdown from UV radiation.

Honey lightening works through oxidation. Oxygen bleaches do not lighten clothing or most coloured fabrics. Oxygen bleaches are colour-safe.



“2. What factors contribute to the decomposition of H2O2?
The primary factors contributing to H2O2 decomposition include: increasing temperature …. increasing pH (especially at pH > 6-8); increasing contamination (especially transition metals such as copper, manganese or iron); …. to a lesser degree, exposure to ultraviolet light. ….

4. What are H2O2 stabilizers …. Most commercial grades of H2O2 contain chelants and sequestrants which minimize its decomposition under normal storage …. handling conditions. In some applications (e.g. .... cosmetic formulations) a high degree of stabilization is needed; …. types of stabilizers used in H2O2 …. Colloidal stannate and sodium pyrophosphate …. traditional mainstays …. Other additives may include nitrate …. phosphoric acid.
http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2

UV oxidation
“Exposure of hydrogen peroxide to UV light leads to …. scission of the hydrogen peroxide molecule into two hydroxyl radicals.”
http://www.trojanuv.com/en/business/ECTadditionalinfo.aspx

Hydroxyl radicals
“…. can damage virtually all types of macromolecules: carbohydrates, nucleic acids (mutations), lipids (lipid peroxidation) and amino acids (e.g. conversion of Phe to m-Tyrosine and o-Tyrosine). The only means to protect important cellular structures is the use of antioxidants ….”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl_radical

“Advantages of Powdered Oxygen Bleach
…. best advantage of an oxygen bleach is that you can get rid of stubborn dirt and organic stains without having to use toxic …. hazardous materials like chlorine bleach. Oxygen bleaches are …. color-safe and won't bleach dyed fabrics like chlorine bleach will.”
http://oxygenbleach.homestead.com/files/

“Some non-chlorine bleaches contain slightly weaker oxidizing agents, which will oxidize the colored molecules in many common stains, but not the robust pigments of commercial textile dyes. That's what makes them "color-safe."
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem99533.htm

[ktani]

The optimal pH for honey to produce peroxide is 6. Most honeys on the market are more acidic than this and the spice boosters are too.

The peroxide in a honey lightening recipe can be depleted by; minerals, Vitamin C, heat and UV.

That is why distilled water (pH7), and the new dilution work so well, IMO. Together, they raise the pH level of the recipe and allow the honey to produce more peroxide than it can at lower concentrations (dilutions) and without extra minerals.

The exception to distilled or deionized water (both should work well), is tap water that has a pH of 7 and a very low to no mineral content.

[ktani]

Honey for just conditioning not lightening.

Honey slowly releases peroxide on dilution with fluids that constain water. This exempts oil. The operative word is slowly.

The time recommended for honey lightening with the new dilution, and distilled water, is 1 hour.

Using honey as a rinse and leaving it on the hair for 5 to 10 minutes, with tap water (which contains minerals in most cases and minerals deplete peroxide), should not cause any lightening of hair colour. If a rinse is left on the hair, as the hair dries, any peroxide production will cease.

Honey used undiluted as a leave-in on damp hair (the size of a pea is used for whole sections of hair) should not and has not been reported to lighten hair colour. There is not enough moisture in damp hair to dilute anything, much less honey.

Hair conditioners can contain ingredients that interfere with honey lightening, they have an acidic pH that will not contribute to more than gradual lightening at best in most cases, and have a water content from about 70 to 90%. Conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening but microwaving a honey/conditioner mix is recommended to eliminate the possibility of some lightening.

Using honey mixed with any Vitamin C containing ingredients, will deplete any peroxide produced. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C, and is depleted in the process. Mixing honey with aloe vera gel, which contains 3 x more Vitamin C than raw lemon juice, is one way to lessen the chance of hair lightening, but again microwaving the mix is the best choice.

Microwaving a honey mix will destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide. The microwaving time has been under some debate. I think the safest time is from 30 seconds to under 1 minute.

[brok3nwings]

ktani this last research you did is really intersting as i had questioned myself why did heat should not be aplied in honey lightening as it is used with convensional peroxide.
I want to start again with this honey method, yesterday i did my mix with 1 part honey to 6 parts distilled water and half soap spoon ? (sorry i dont know the name) of cinnamon... the difference for what i used to do ( for my problem i told you in PM of dripping) is that i applied it with a tint brush on dry hair until my hair was wet but not dripping maddly.
i used to wet my hair too much and it was really annoying... i am thinking of trying next time to put the mix in a spray bottle. The brush is ok but i took about 15 min to wet all of my hair..the good thing is i can keep putting the mix during the one hour to my roots (thats the area i want to lighten more).
My honey is organic honey i bought from a health store but it doesnt tell what is the honey sourse...i believe that could leave me into a honey that has not enough peroxide values. I chose the darkest one i could find. i would like to use one that i knew it was good for this but here in Portugal most of the honey i find are from Portugal so the list wont help me with this.
i did not see any lightening but i believe that this is something that i will have to do for some time...
Being blonde makes my hair look dark and light during the day and it is a bit difficult for me to see it as it really changes with the light. I mean, it really changes!! but when i see a significant difference i will report it. Honey has helped me to take away some brassiness before so in some way it lightened my hair...

[ktani]

ktani this last research you did is really intersting as i had questioned myself why did heat should not be aplied in honey lightening as it is used with convensional peroxide.
I want to start again with this honey method, yesterday i did my mix with 1 part honey to 6 parts distilled water and half soap spoon ? (sorry i dont know the name) of cinnamon... the difference for what i used to do ( for my problem i told you in PM of dripping) is that i applied it with a tint brush on dry hair until my hair was wet but not dripping maddly.
i used to wet my hair too much and it was really annoying... i am thinking of trying next time to put the mix in a spray bottle. The brush is ok but i took about 15 min to wet all of my hair..the good thing is i can keep putting the mix during the one hour to my roots (thats the area i want to lighten more).
My honey is organic honey i bought from a health store but it doesnt tell what is the honey sourse...i believe that could leave me into a honey that has not enough peroxide values. I chose the darkest one i could find. i would like to use one that i knew it was good for this but here in Portugal most of the honey i find are from Portugal so the list wont help me with this.
i did not see any lightening but i believe that this is something that i will have to do for some time...
Being blonde makes my hair look dark and light during the day and it is a bit difficult for me to see it as it really changes with the light. I mean, it really changes!! but when i see a significant difference i will report it. Honey has helped me to take away some brassiness before so in some way it lightened my hair...

Your recipe sounds fine. You could use the 2 tablespoons honey to 12 tablspoons distilled water and add more cinnamon or ground cardamom, if you patch tested it and simply not use it all at once but over 2 days, if you wish.

Here is the roots only method for honey lightening.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2371

The last time we were in contact, you were thinking of ordering Jarrah honey. It has a high peroxide value. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1266

The other thing to consider is buying or using a swim cap for your honey lightening treatments. IMO, a swim cap is the best choice to keep a honey lightening treatment wet and secured while covered.

[brok3nwings]

ktani is there swimming caps with other material then rubber? i havent used any for ages and i used to hate it cause it ripped my hair because they were made of rubber...
wet hair doesnt mean it has to be dripping like when you get out of the shower right? I made a bun and as it was only one hour it didnt dry or anything, i think it was wet when i went to the shower..
About the honey yes i want to do order so madly but i dont have my credit card yet, and when i do (about one month from now) i will have to register first at the Paypal and then wait for the order to come... so until then i only have the portuguese honey

[plainjanegirl]

ktani this last research you did is really intersting as i had questioned myself why did heat should not be aplied in honey lightening as it is used with convensional peroxide.
I want to start again with this honey method, yesterday i did my mix with 1 part honey to 6 parts distilled water and half soap spoon ? (sorry i dont know the name) of cinnamon... the difference for what i used to do ( for my problem i told you in PM of dripping) is that i applied it with a tint brush on dry hair until my hair was wet but not dripping maddly.
i used to wet my hair too much and it was really annoying... i am thinking of trying next time to put the mix in a spray bottle. The brush is ok but i took about 15 min to wet all of my hair..the good thing is i can keep putting the mix during the one hour to my roots (thats the area i want to lighten more).
My honey is organic honey i bought from a health store but it doesnt tell what is the honey sourse...i believe that could leave me into a honey that has not enough peroxide values. I chose the darkest one i could find. i would like to use one that i knew it was good for this but here in Portugal most of the honey i find are from Portugal so the list wont help me with this.
i did not see any lightening but i believe that this is something that i will have to do for some time...
Being blonde makes my hair look dark and light during the day and it is a bit difficult for me to see it as it really changes with the light. I mean, it really changes!! but when i see a significant difference i will report it. Honey has helped me to take away some brassiness before so in some way it lightened my hair...

Let us all know how the honey lightening is going for you.
I would like to know how the spray method works if you try it next time.