Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

Factors that influence changing an existing hair colour

"Eumelanin is brown/black in color .... most common type of melanin. .... gives color to hair shades from black to brown.

Phaeomelanin is red in color .... gives the yellow, ginger and red shades of hair .... color. Melanin .... found in the cortex.

Both eumelanin and phaeomelanin are present in the hair.

What determines the hue we see is the ratio of eumelanin to phaeomelanin.

and
a. .... thickness of the hair
b. .... total number and size of pigment granules
c. .... ratio of eumelanin to phaeomelamin

... when a colorist is changing .... existing hair color .... All three factors .... important.

The density of pigment granules and the size of the granules varies from one race to another.

Another important factor is the amount of cortex in coarse thick hair. The cortex is larger than in fine hair and .... has a higher density of pigment. Blonde hair has fewer and smaller pigment granules of phaeomelanin. .... makes blonde hair easier and quicker to lighten."
http://www.texascollaborative.org/hi...les/topic3.htm

So with added colour pigments, changing a hair colour depends not only on the density and size of the pigment granules in total, natural and synthetic, but the thickness of the hair shaft (the cortex of coarse hair naturally has and can hold (capacity for) more pigment) and the ratio of pigments too.

This explains to me why some people can get lighter hair faster than others with various methods used. It is not just the starting hair colour or the added colour. The older the hair is (like the ends), the greater the accumulation of added pigment, when it has been done repeatedly on all of the hair.

[ktani]

I have now "loaded" the first post of this thread, with posts in response to some of the most asked questions, and providing easy reference to those seeking specific information.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...61&postcount=1

[ktani]

Where to buy distilled water in the US
http://www.hardforum.com/archive/ind...t-1121735.html

Where to find distilled water in the UK - check out battery top up water for additives
"Halfords or any other garage .... battery top up water."

".... off the shelf in Tesco- .... in the car accessory section. 1.50/litre."
"
"best option for UK .... de-ionised water meant for cars. I had a look at water for irons .... they are putting all sorts of rubbish into it."
http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/archive/...hp/t-3499.html

Where to buy distilled water in Europe - Location: er gaat niets boven groningen (Netherlands)
"at a drugstore. Any of them have distilled water .... about an euro per litre."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...threadid=63745

Where to buy distilled water in Russia
"$2 for 5 litres in auto parts shop."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...threadid=63745

I recommend distilled over deionized water but deionized water should work well too.

[ktani]

Honey lightening can be done repeatedly with no worries about hair damage.

There been no reports of hair damage from honey lightening in all 5 Honey threads to date, including this one, no matter how long a treatment is left on the hair or how often it is done. The research that supports this is in my signature post, in this thread, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=10495 and the Honey Article. There have been no reports of honey damaging hair on these boards, when accidental lightening has occurred.

Honey residue can leave the hair dry and hair ends stiff. This result is temporary and can easily resolved by shampooing. There have been 0 lasting effects reported when this is done.

Not all honeys leave a discernable residue that reqires shampooing out. Both raw and pasteurized honeys, cheap and expensive ones, can leave a residue. The amount of residue depends on the honey but there is no one type or brand of honey that has been singled out to leave more residue than others.

It is important to rinse the hair well but honey residue is best removed by shampoo, based on reports.

[ktani]

Honey lightening is so much simpler now.

And the reported results have been so much better than with previous recipes.

Now it is just honey, distilled water (unless your tap water is mineral free and pH 7) and the choice of added peroxide boosters (ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil). Everything should be used at room temperature only, with no added heat (body heat is the exception to no heat). Here are pictures of just honey and water results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2043

The new dilution is the key to a successful recipe, IMO. 1/8 cup honey (2 tablespoons) needs 3/4 cup distilled water US, (1/2 cup Metric). 1/8 cup honey weighs 1.5 oz x 4 = 6 oz = 12 tablespoons distilled water needed, or x amount of honey to 4 times the amount of distilled water by weight. Here is a conversion link.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conve...surements.html

Here are pictures of results with the new dilution.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1906

A treatment can be left to sit for 1 hour in advance of application, to produce peroxide (recommended), or used right away if you are in a hurry and it will produce peroxide while on the hair.

The recipes can be applied with a tint, blush or pastry brush, and/or a spray or squirt bottle, then the hair needs to be securely covered with plastic (wearing a swim cap is recommended) and the treatment left on the hair for about an hour. The hair must be completely wet with the treatment both before being covered and during the time that a treatment is on the hair.

With a good peroxide producing honey, the right dilution and method, that is all there is to it. Here is The Successful Honeys List.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

[Honigwein]

Same text twice, sorry;

[Honigwein]

Now I understand why my hair is getting lighter... without knowing it I started to use olive oil with honey and coconut milk in my hair because I read it would be good to keep its length(since it´s curled)looking better. My hair is shinny and much softer and I confess I´m not very pleased with its lightening because I didn´t want it. Anyway it looks a natural color as you can notice. Thanks for your thread!

[ktani]

Now I understand why my hair is getting lighter... without knowing it I started to use olive oil with honey and coconut milk in my hair because I read it would be good to keep its length(since it´s curled)looking better. My hair is shinny and much softer and I confess I´m not very pleased with its lightening because I didn´t want it. Anyway it looks a natural color as you can notice. Thanks for your thread!

You are most welcome.

Your hair does look natural and the recipe that you are using would give you gradual lightening, that would take time to be noticeable.

Try mocrowaving the honey for 30 seconds to under one minute for future use. You should not get much lightening from the coconut milk and olive oil on their own. Coconut milk has an acidic pH, and contains minerals and some contains Vitamin C which would deplete its peroxide value. Olive oil needs to be diluted to lighten. With the mix you have been using, you have not been getting the maximum lightening you could with honey and the olive oil, but that is not what you wanted in any case.

[ktani]

Honey lightening on hennaed hair

Henna results vary with the individual. There is the water chosen (tap vs distilled), the recipe (whether or not lemon juice is used in the mix), the quality of the henna (dye content, sift, crop year and age (stale henna), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

Honey lightening has its variables too in terms of results. There is the water chosen, the honey (peroxide level), the recipe (lemon juice or Viamin C in an ingredient, heat, UV, and minerals deplete peroxide), the method used, the frequency with which it is applied, and the hair of the individual.

However, honey lightening, using the new dilution, with a good peroxide producing honey, the right water (distilled or deionized), recipe, and method, has been reported to work on various types of henna, recipes and methods used, even on baq henna.

Pictures of honey lightening on hennaed hair

kimki - on hennaed hair - after 2 treatments, 1 with ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=958

kimki's recipe - This was before the new dilution, which has been reported to yield better results. Chamomile tea is no longer recommended for honey lightening. It can add gold tones to hair.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=960

kimki - on the condition of he hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=822

My response to kimki's questions
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=824

soleluna - on hennaed hair (baq Egyptian henna) - the new dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1375

soleluna - recipe details and the condition of her hair following honey lightening Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1377

LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 4 treatments - with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following 4 honey lightening treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1651

[ktani]

Honey lightening and red tones

Regarding red tones and honey lightening, it depends on the starting hair colour (honey lightening has not been reported to add colour of its own to hair, even with ground cinnamon) but here are 2 results on virgin, mid brown hair, that went from brown to blonde, bypassing red altogether. The tap water used in the 2nd result IMO, had the right pH and a low mineral content.

Jan in ID - on mid-brown virgin hair - with distilled water - after 2 treatments - with ground cinnamon and booster oils - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1299

Jan in ID - on mid-brown virgin hair - with the new dilution and distilled water - after 3 more treatments - with ground cinnamon and only 1/2 tblsp EVOO, no conditioner and the condition of her hair, after 5 treaments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1721

HalcyonDays - on dark mid-brown virgin hair - with the new dilution using tap water - after 1 treatment - left on the hair for 2 hours - just water and honey. The lighting is dark in the before picture, so I requested a replacement picture.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1633

HalcyonDays - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening and a replacement before picture
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1635


Honey lightening with ground cinnamon, has been reported to reduce brassiness and lighten unwanted red/gold tones, on blonde hair, even before the new dilution. With the new dilution, the recipe used by firebird, would require 12 tablespoons of distilled water, not 8.

firebird - honey lightening on a cassia treatment that had darkened her previously dyed hair, adding a red/gold tone - she used ground cinnamon and EVOO, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=489