Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

**ktani** · September 24th, 2008, 06:11 AM

Ground cardomom, although I have not tested it, I believe has an acidic pH below 6 as well as ground cinnamon, (it contains a small amount of Vitamin C but has the higer peroxide value than cinnamon, and is the only exception to using something with Vitamin C, that I recommend for a honey lightening treatment).

A honey lightening recipe with ground cardamom, has been reported to work well, with the new dilution and distilled water.

All things considered, with most honeys being acidic with a pH of less than 6 (6 being the optimal pH for a honey to produce peroxide) and probably both spice boosters as well, the new dilution with distilled water (pH 7and no minerals to deplete peroxide), which has been reported to work well with a large variety of honeys and all boosters, is IMO, the best option, in terms of a honey to water concentration.

**ktani** · September 24th, 2008, 09:29 AM

A recent result of a honey lightning treatment with ground cardamom, at the new dilution, using distilled water.

melikai - on previously hi-lighted hair - the new dilution, with distilled water and 1 tablespoon ground cardamom, after 2 treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2055

melikai - recipe and the condition of her hair after 2 treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2060

**ktani** · September 25th, 2008, 07:01 AM

3 things remain consistent in all of the reports on honey lightening, no matter how much lightening is achieved.

1. No hair damage has been reported; weak, gummy, split or broken hair, no matter how long or how often a treatment has been applied.

2. Even though the new dilution requires more distilled water than previous dilutions, the condition of the hair following a treatment has been reported as soft, smooth and shiny (some people have left a treatment on longer than 1 hour, just for extra conditioning).

3. Honey residue, which can leave the hair feeling dry and the ends stiff, has been reported to be easily removed with shampoo and when that is done, the hair returns to a soft, smooth feeling and is shiny.

**ktani** · September 25th, 2008, 07:09 AM

Honey lightening is so much simpler now.

And the reported results have been so much better than with previous recipes.

Now it is just honey, distilled water (unless your tap water is mineral free and pH 7) and the choice of added peroxide boosters (ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil). Everything should be used at room temperature only, with no added heat (body heat is the exception to no heat). Here are pictures of just honey and water results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2043

The new dilution is the key to a successful recipe, IMO. 1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup distilled water US, (1/2 cup Metric). 1/8 cup honey (2 tablespoons) weighs 1.5 oz x 4 = 6 oz = 12 tablespoons distilled water needed, or x amount of honey to 4 times the amount of distilled water by weight. Here is a conversion link.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conve...surements.html

Here are pictures of results with the new dilution.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1906

A treatment can be left to sit for 1 hour in advance of application, to produce peroxide (recommended), or used right away if you are in a hurry and it will produce peroxide while on the hair.

The recipes can be applied with a tint, blush or pastry brush, and/or a spray or squirt bottle, then the hair needs to be securely covered with plastic (wearing a swim cap is recommended) and the treatment left on the hair for about an hour. The hair must be completely wet with the treatment both before being covered and during the time that a treatment is on the hair.

With a good peroxide producing honey, the right dilution and method, that is all there is to it. Here is The Successful Honeys List.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin

**ktani** · September 25th, 2008, 07:51 AM

Honey residue

Different honeys leave different amounts of residue on hair. Some honeys leave no discernable residue and require no extra shampooing.

Both raw and pasteurized honey can leave a residue, that can leave the hair feeling dry and stiff.

However, shampoo has been reported to easily remove this residue but may require more than 1 shampooing to do so.

A vinegar rinse has been reported to help as well to remove honey residue, but is not as effective as shampoo alone, from reports.

**ktani** · September 25th, 2008, 08:20 AM

Adding "extras" like thickeners or conventional peroxide to a honey lightening recipe is not recommended.

I researched thickeners. All of the the ones I looked into, from cornstarch to gums, to gelatin to flax seed, to cellulose, are not compatible with strong oxidizers like hydrogen peroxide and can deplete or negatively interact, with the peroxide levels of honey lightening recipes, IMO.

If conventional peroxide is added to a recipe, there would not be enough protection from hair damage, because the protective flavonoids in a honey lightening treatment need to be used as a pretreatment before conventional peroxide (which is much stronger than honey lightening peroxide) is used, and the peroxide applied over them (coconut or coconut and argan oils are the best choices for that) or they need to be formulated into the peroxide itself. In honey lightening, the flavonoids are already in the ingredients that produce natural peroxide.

Here is a thread about helping to protect hair from damage from conventional peroxide/bleach and hair colour. An explanation of how the elements found in honey lightening recipes protect hair from damage and the research that supports this, is also in the thread. There are reports on how coconut and argan oils (which contain protective chelators (the flavonoids are chelators), has been effective against hair damage, used as a pretreatment, with a higher level peroxide, conventional hair colour, applied over it.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=10495

**wintersun99** · September 25th, 2008, 05:15 PM

Dropping in for an update...

As you may remember, I recently cut the bottom (maybe 3-4") of my hair (damage) which was also the most concentrated, darkest deposits of indigo in my hair. Since then, I've continued to use the honey mix once a week, primarily for the condition. I have also let my roots grow enough such that I can begin to see what my natural color is going to be... the roots are about 1/2" at present and appear to be of a similar color to what I've been able to lighten the rest of my indio'd hair to... so, I am quite pleased. I will not be actively using the honey mix for lightening anymore, but will still use it for a deep conditioning ingredient (will probably go back to mixing it with conditioner.)

Good luck to you all, have patience!

**ktani** · September 25th, 2008, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by wintersun99

Dropping in for an update...

As you may remember, I recently cut the bottom (maybe 3-4") of my hair (damage) which was also the most concentrated, darkest deposits of indigo in my hair. Since then, I've continued to use the honey mix once a week, primarily for the condition. I have also let my roots grow enough such that I can begin to see what my natural color is going to be... the roots are about 1/2" at present and appear to be of a similar color to what I've been able to lighten the rest of my indio'd hair to... so, I am quite pleased. I will not be actively using the honey mix for lightening anymore, but will still use it for a deep conditioning ingredient (will probably go back to mixing it with conditioner.)

Good luck to you all, have patience!

Great news and thank you for posting the update.

If you do not need to lighten further to match your roots, I take it that there is no obvious line of demarcation.

Excellent!!!!

You do have options, the new dilution for lightening, which still conditions well, and honey mixed with conditioner, for straight conditioning. You may still get some lightening from the honey conditioner mix but it can be very gradual. If you want ensure no possibility of lightenig from a honey conditioner mix, I suggest 2 things.

1. Microwave the honey separately for under 1 minute.

2. Try using honey with Aussie Cleanse and Mend Conditioner (1 part honey to 2 parts conditioner), which has been reported to condition well with honey, but not lighten hair.

**wintersun99** · September 25th, 2008, 05:45 PM

I think there will be a line of demarcation, partially do to the fact that my natural color is an ash-brown, with no red tones AND the most noticeable difference is that there are some gray hairs in the new growth that are not a part of the length (which also has some red tones.) So, the overall shade is very close, but the tone is off... however, the blending should be just fine and dandy.

**ktani** · September 25th, 2008, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by wintersun99

I think there will be a line of demarcation, partially do to the fact that my natural color is an ash-brown, with no red tones AND the most noticeable difference is that there are some gray hairs in the new growth that are not a part of the length (which also has some red tones.) So, the overall shade is very close, but the tone is off... however, the blending should be just fine and dandy.

Right, my error, you were continuing to use henna and lately katam, which you said did not darken for you, I forgot.