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Thread: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    Quote Originally Posted by CavyQueen View Post
    Wow! Thank you ktani and Norai for your research on organic chemistry. Now, how do I apply this to other oils? Do I look for oils with higher lauric acid versus capric acid?
    On my behalf you are most welcome! And undetermined is the answer, so far, lol. Still under discussion. I love this!

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    I posted this earlier.

    "One interesting thing is that stearic acid is a saturated fatty acid with no double bonds. However, it has a high molecular weight, (molecular weight being one of the points important an oil penetrating hair)." (my text)

    "Stearic acid .... is the highest molecular weight saturated fatty acid occurring abundantly in fats and oils."
    http://www.cyberlipid.org/fa/acid0001.htm

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    I think they just specifically mention lauric because they decided to use plain coconut oil in their study, and coconut oil is mostly lauric acid, which makes it a very relevant point to bring up. Capric and caprylic acid make up small percents of normal coconut oil (like 5-7% each), so not really worth mentioning in their abstract, unless they want to list the whole fatty acid profile in there. So what I'm wondering, is if fractionated is better, since the average molecule size is smaller than the average molecule size in coconut oil--they didn't do a study on fractionated, so I dunno. They should

    They are all very similar though, so I don't know if a couple carbons is really enough to make a difference between them.

    What makes a fatty acid a straight chain like that is lack of double bonds between the carbons - if it has no double bonds, it's saturated, one double bond it's monounsaturated and 2+ is polyunsaturated. The double bonds kink the chain - they pull much harder than a single bond, making it not straight. So basically when you look at the table fatty acid composition of coconut oil, everything that says saturated is straight, the only difference between them is the size.

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    Quote Originally Posted by Norai View Post
    I think they just specifically mention lauric because they decided to use plain coconut oil in their study, and coconut oil is mostly lauric acid, which makes it a very relevant point to bring up. Capric and caprylic acid make up small percents of normal coconut oil (like 5-7% each), so not really worth mentioning in their abstract, unless they want to list the whole fatty acid profile in there. So what I'm wondering, is if fractionated is better, since the average molecule size is smaller than the average molecule size in coconut oil--they didn't do a study on fractionated, so I dunno. They should

    They are all very similar though, so I don't know if a couple carbons is really enough to make a difference between them.

    What makes a fatty acid a straight chain like that is lack of double bonds between the carbons - if it has no double bonds, it's saturated, one double bond it's monounsaturated and 2+ is polyunsaturated. The double bonds kink the chain - they pull much harder than a single bond, making it not straight. So basically when you look at the table fatty acid composition of coconut oil, everything that says saturated is straight, the only difference between them is the size.
    And weight. Stearic acid, I do not believe and from reports on shea butter mixed with coconut oil interfering with dye uptake and lightening, can penetrate hair at all.

    If lauric acid is the main fatty acid (the research said main fatty acid too), then I do think it is key.

    Your results should indicate if that is true in terms of it being important for connecting to protein, I hope.

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    What is so confusing is that some oils such as olive and avocado oil have both oleic acid (single double bond) and linoleic acid (mutliple double bonds), and still penetrate the hair. So, what gives these oils (with double bonds) the ability to penetrate the hair shaft?

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    Quote Originally Posted by CavyQueen View Post
    What is so confusing is that some oils such as olive and avocado oil have both oleic acid (single double bond) and linoleic acid (mutliple double bonds), and still penetrate the hair. So, what gives these oils (with double bonds) the ability to penetrate the hair shaft?
    In my opinion, it is not that they can penetrate hair, it is about how much they can penetrate hair. The bonds, double, and multiple, restrict that.
    Last edited by ktani; August 3rd, 2009 at 06:41 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    Quote Originally Posted by ktani View Post
    And weight. Stearic acid, I do not believe and from reports on shea butter mixed with coconut oil interfering with dye uptake and lightening, can penetrate hair at all.
    I don't think I'm on the same page as you... stearic acid? What about it? It doesn't penetrate hair because of the weight?

    Is weight not a direct function of how many carbons are in the atom, thus size? Stearic is 18 carbons long, 'course it weighs more. Carbons always weigh the same, so when you add more carbons you add more weight. Could it not be that 18 carbons is just too big? o.O

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    Ooo DBF found me the link to the full text article, rather than just the abstract if anyone's interested:

    http://journal.scconline.org//pdf/cc...175-p00192.pdf

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    Quote Originally Posted by Norai View Post
    I don't think I'm on the same page as you... stearic acid? What about it? It doesn't penetrate hair because of the weight?

    Is weight not a direct function of how many carbons are in the atom, thus size? Stearic is 18 carbons long, 'course it weighs more. Carbons always weigh the same, so when you add more carbons you add more weight. Could it not be that 18 carbons is just too big? o.O
    Sorry, my point is, that although stearic acid is a straight chain saturated fatty acid, its molecular weight prevents it from being absorbed into hair.

    The coconut oil research, talks about it having a low molecular weight as one of the factors, in its penetration of hair fiber.

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    Default Re: Certain Oils Don't Penetrate???

    I think we're making the same point lol :P

    My point is that capric/caprylic aka fractionated coconut oil might be better than normal coconut oil because the molecules in it are smaller than lauric acid, but also straight, saturated, thus might penetrate even better~

    but I got nothin' because my fractionated is still in the mail and no one's done a study on it that I can find.

    anyone who actually uses it already, do you like it? >.>

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