Curly hair - wet or dry detangle? Boar bristle brushing? Breakage management?

[Abacus]

Hey everyone, especially those of you with type 3 and 4 hair! I have fine (but dense) 3b/3c hair that is reaching an awkward length - it is not long enough to put into protective styles, but it is long enough to tangle and break if I'm not very gentle with it. This new length is making me confront a couple of questions with regards to what's best for long-term care when extreme length is the goal.

A lot of these questions stem from the fact that I've been watching a lot of Katherine Sewing's content on youtube. My hair is curlier than hers is, but I have found a lot of her haircare advice works really well for me. A few things she has brought up have given me pause and I would love other people's thoughts.

1.) Dry detangling -- she recommends dry finger detangling hair rather than detangling under running water with conditioner, which is the most often recommended way to detangle curly hair. In her thinking, the hair is weaker when it is wet, it probably IS breaking, we just can't tell because we can't feel it due to how soft and weak the hair is when it's wet, and all the broken pieces are getting washed away before we can see them. She recommends dry finger detangling with oil instead. We will feel every snap crackle and pop of the hair if we break it, but the breakage will ultimately be less. This feels so counter to everything I've ever learned, but she stands by it as something that helped her achieve massive length, when before she was stuck at shoulder length when doing more curly-girl-method type detangling. It's hard for me to psychologically get past the sensation of snapping a hair when I'm dry detangling, and I do see little broken pieces (even just running my hands over my hair with a little oil I end up seeing a few little broken pieces fall down into the sink, which I hate) but at the same time, if wet detangling is going to ultimately slow my progress toward super long hair I want to know now.

2.) Boar Bristle Brushing -- This is something she stands by for hair health, for being able to prolong washes, for cleansing the hair and moving sebum down the hair shaft and conditioning ends. Does anyone with curly hair do this? Does it help anyone? Do you experience breakage? I feel like I saw an increase in little broken pieces the few times I've tried it, but I'm drawn to it as a concept. I once saw someone with 4C hair on youtube using a very soft goat hair brush (made for babies) on her hair because she felt that boar bristles did mechanical damage. Wondering if anyone here has tried that as an option, or if brushing for hair health is just something we do not do.

For what it's worth, I don't really care about having defined curls. What I'm interested in is length retention, hair health, and what makes the most sense as a way to grow VERY long hair.

[foreveryours]

1) It doesn't matter what kind of hair you have, she's correct. I found it counterintuitive too years ago. Thought I'd end up with a crazy knot letting it all dry. But then I tried it. After a couple of times, it does take a bit of practive, I found it's WAY easier. I'm not exaggerating, but it completely changed my life. My hair's at least 18" longer for the practice.

2) Brushes are incompatible with really long hair. There's too much friction, pulling, with consequent breakage. Don't worry about trying to move stuff off your scalp down the length. Applying oil by hand from the ears down is good enough. Save your hair.

That's my $0.02 (courtesy of my Bank)

[Rainbouu]

I don't have curly hair and I'm sure that more knowledgeable curlies are on the way with more info. But...in my personal experience, I'd go with whatever method seems to be less damaging/difficult for your hair.

I dry detangle with a tangle teaser, and there are plenty of others (I notice the 1a, 1b, 1c types) with classic to knee hair who I see also use brushes or TTs. Evidently, this works for my hair type and similar ones. I personally do it this way because with a comb and especially when wet, I hear and feel rips and snaps, my hair looks more damaged after, and I can't even get my fairy knots out that way anyway.

Katherine Sewing has gorgeous hair, but if I followed most of her routine, I think I'd end up stuck at collarbone length lol...but again, that's entirely due to different hair types.

I think Lab Muffin Beauty has an interesting video about dry vs wet detangling for straight vs curly hair. I think she said straight hair is much weaker when wet but curly hair is actually stronger when wet. Try and look it up!

My point is, if wet detangling works better for you and feels better, there's nothing wrong with wet detangling. Many curlies with beautiful long hair do so.

Edit: mainly I commented because you indicate you're experiencing breakage by trying out the dry detangling and bbb. To me, that's just a sign that they don't work for your hair. I might be wrong but...more breakage won't turn into more length in the long run.

[Abacus]

1) It doesn't matter what kind of hair you have, she's correct. I found it counterintuitive too years ago. Thought I'd end up with a crazy knot letting it all dry. But then I tried it. After a couple of times, it does take a bit of practive, I found it's WAY easier. I'm not exaggerating, but it completely changed my life. My hair's at least 18" longer for the practice.

2) Brushes are incompatible with really long hair. There's too much friction, pulling, with consequent breakage. Don't worry about trying to move stuff off your scalp down the length. Applying oil by hand from the ears down is good enough. Save your hair.

That's my $0.02 (courtesy of my Bank)

Thanks for your 2 cents! That's interesting that you've found dry detangling to work better for you. Is your preferred mode of detangling finger detangling?

I don't have curly hair and I'm sure that more knowledgeable curlies are on the way with more info. But...in my personal experience, I'd go with whatever method seems to be less damaging/difficult for your hair.

I dry detangle with a tangle teaser, and there are plenty of others (I notice the 1a, 1b, 1c types) with classic to knee hair who I see also use brushes or TTs. Evidently, this works for my hair type and similar ones. I personally do it this way because with a comb and especially when wet, I hear and feel rips and snaps, my hair looks more damaged after, and I can't even get my fairy knots out that way anyway.

Katherine Sewing has gorgeous hair, but if I followed most of her routine, I think I'd end up stuck at collarbone length lol...but again, that's entirely due to different hair types.

I think Lab Muffin Beauty has an interesting video about dry vs wet detangling for straight vs curly hair. I think she said straight hair is much weaker when wet but curly hair is actually stronger when wet. Try and look it up!

My point is, if wet detangling works better for you and feels better, there's nothing wrong with wet detangling. Many curlies with beautiful long hair do so.

Edit: mainly I commented because you indicate you're experiencing breakage by trying out the dry detangling and bbb. To me, that's just a sign that they don't work for your hair. I might be wrong but...more breakage won't turn into more length in the long run.

Yeah I wasn't sure if I'm experiencing more breakage with dry detangling or if I'm just able to SEE the breakage with dry detangling. But you're right, I should probably go with the path of least resistance. I feel like I'm not totally done experimenting with dry detangling, but I do feel like when I wet detangle the knots are more likely to just slip away without me having to do a whole lot. I'm also realizing how incredibly important protective styling will be for me in making sure it doesn't become tangled in the first place!

Oh and I found the video you were talking about! It makes sense. She's basically saying that although it is true for both straight and curly hair that the hair strands are more fragile when wet, for curly hair there is also this factor where the curls and kinks relax when they are wet, and it makes it less likely for them to snag onto one another in that state, and this basically overcompensates for the fragility. I feel like this fits with my experience.

[foreveryours]

Thanks for your 2 cents! That's interesting that you've found dry detangling to work better for you. Is your preferred mode of detangling finger detangling?

Sort of. An old gossamer video waas my original inspiration for dry hair detangling. Although she braided her air to dry it, I let mine hang loose over the end of my bed overnight to dry. To detaingle, I do use my hands initially but not like "finger combs". Starting from the scalp, I pull sections apart out to each side, initially big sections and then smaller and smaller sections from the top down. Then I use a wide tooth comb from the bottom up. And then a wet brush dry of course. It takes me about 20 minutes. But in winter it's only 1X every few weeks so not too bad

[Hairy-Fairy]

I don't know that curly hair is stronger wet. I think, objectively, any wet hair will break with less stress on the strand. (A caveat here that when i say dry, I still mean moisturized. At least with my coily hair, the longer it goes without moisture, the dryer and more brittle it becomes. So a wet strand may actually be stronger than a dry that has not seen water in way too long, especially if that strand has been conditioned.)

However, with curly hair, wet hair is more pliable so detangling puts LESS STRESS on the strands when they're more pliable vs when they're less malleable. And that layer of slippery conditioner means that the hairs are more likely to slip past each other and whatever you're using to detangle instead of sticking together and snapping when you apply pressure. So even though the dry strand may be able to withstand more stress before snapping, wet and slippery detangling theoretically applies less stress to begin with. What works in theory however, doesn't work for everyone in practice. I personally think that's why many curlies have more success detangling wet. But not all.

I actually have more success finger detangling dry with oil. Because I have very high shrinkage levels and my hair is recurling and shrinking and tangling as I'm trying to detangle it in the shower. If I do it dry, it still shrinks and tangles but at a much slower rate and i can keep it stretched while i work. Plus, if I'm going to spend hours removing tangles and shed hair, I would rather do it dry and cozy while I'm watching a show.

I also detangle my daughter's 3b/c hair dry with oil. Her hair sticks together when it's wet, no matter how much conditioner I use. It's always been like this. But for whatever reason, it slips past itself much easier dry with a little oil.

ETA: I didn't see you had already commented basically dating what i said lol sorry. Also, I should mention I finger detangle my own hair but i finger detangle and then brush my daughter's hair.

[Lady Stardust]

I’ve just been thinking about this thread while washing my hair! My hair is only slightly wavy so I’m sorry I can’t give a curly haired perspective.

Is there some protection in the hair staying in clumps, in a strength in numbers kind of way? If there is, wet detangling with a load of conditioner, or detangling before a wash with a lot of oil, would make sense I think?

The reduced friction when the curls are elongated makes sense to me. I have a feeling I saw a video about this recently, I’ll come back and post it if I can remember where it was.

A lot of people love boar bristle brushes, but a lot of people see breakage with them. I think their purpose is supposed to be to spread sebum down the hair shaft. I completely agree with foreveryours (and his interest payment ) that oiling the length and staying away from brushes makes a huge difference. I don’t know how easy it is to finger detangle with curls. A wide tooth comb might be another option.

ETA: I found the video. It’s Sarah Ingle, referencing a text book, about 3 minutes in and referring to a chart about the force applied. For curly hair, she says detangling wet is best.
https://youtu.be/8bxRUP1pwQY

[Rainbouu]

ETA: I found the video. It’s Sarah Ingle, referencing a text book, about 3 minutes in and referring to a chart about the force applied. For curly hair, she says detangling wet is best.
https://youtu.be/8bxRUP1pwQY

Ahhh that makes a lot more sense, thanks for finding it! I'm definitely a big subscriber to Sarah Ingles ideas because she cites similar textbooks to what I would read in school. <3

Anyway, I suppose it is hard to say if the force applied while wet vs dry is due to the changed state of the hair, or due to our perception of our hair, one way or the other causing us to be more gentle. It's more about the pros and cons for the respective user. Overbrushing/over manipulating is bad for hair, so whatever one can do to avoid that is best.

[Abacus]

I’ve just been thinking about this thread while washing my hair! My hair is only slightly wavy so I’m sorry I can’t give a curly haired perspective.

Is there some protection in the hair staying in clumps, in a strength in numbers kind of way? If there is, wet detangling with a load of conditioner, or detangling before a wash with a lot of oil, would make sense I think?

The reduced friction when the curls are elongated makes sense to me. I have a feeling I saw a video about this recently, I’ll come back and post it if I can remember where it was.

A lot of people love boar bristle brushes, but a lot of people see breakage with them. I think their purpose is supposed to be to spread sebum down the hair shaft. I completely agree with foreveryours (and his interest payment ) that oiling the length and staying away from brushes makes a huge difference. I don’t know how easy it is to finger detangle with curls. A wide tooth comb might be another option.

ETA: I found the video. It’s Sarah Ingle, referencing a text book, about 3 minutes in and referring to a chart about the force applied. For curly hair, she says detangling wet is best.
https://youtu.be/8bxRUP1pwQY

This is a great video! I've watched a few of her videos before, they all seem well-researched. But I didn't want to listen to her when she said DIY hair products and homemade deep conditioners don't work because the molecules aren't small enough to benefit your hair haha. My wallet didn't want to hear that! I'm such a DIYer with hair products, I just chose to ignore that piece of advice.

[shayna]

This is a great video! I've watched a few of her videos before, they all seem well-researched. But I didn't want to listen to her when she said DIY hair products and homemade deep conditioners don't work because the molecules aren't small enough to benefit your hair haha. My wallet didn't want to hear that! I'm such a DIYer with hair products, I just chose to ignore that piece of advice.

Ha, ha! Me, too! I thought "Aw, you big spoilsport, that's really mean!". It might be true, but that's going to really upset an awful lot of people who have homemade things they swear by. Tricky.