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Thread: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

  1. #21
    Member paulownia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Quote Originally Posted by JasminxCat View Post
    That's interesting. Definitely update with results
    Certainly
    The main idea behind the method is that most lightening procedures involving bleach, peroxide or organic acids, like citric or lactic acid, are not dissolving henna and indigo, they only oxidise it ( that's why it just changes color, to orange or green in case of indigo). That's why came an idea to use non-organic acid that can actually dissolve henna and indigo.
    Using coconut oil would help penetrate hair and lift the dissolved colours so they can be washed off.
    Den som väntar på något gott väntar aldrig för länge.

  2. #22
    LHC FairyGodMum lapushka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Quote Originally Posted by JasminxCat View Post
    I was thinking about trying henna. Not after this thread. I had no idea it was THAT hard to remove

    Hopefully you are able to get enough of it out to be content, I'm sorry
    There used to be a good saying around here. You don't date henna, you marry it, and that is as true as it gets! It is very hard to remove, because it "stains" your hair.

    If you want to change it up quite a bit, use semi's or demi's (there is an official thread on those around if you want it).

    Yes it's chemical, but natural isn't always better.
    WCC method (washing) --- Rinse-out oil (MO) --- LOC/LCO method (styling)

  3. #23
    Member barnet_fair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    MotherofPhoenix, I took a look at your photo album, and your hair is beautiful. I know you feel like it doesn't suit your complexion, but you really do look great, so please don't stress or lose confidence over this. It may be that you can wear different colours for a while, or experiment with other aspects of your appearance, during this "henna phase" of your life, and look back on it in the future when your hair is all natural again. These are all better options than hurting your hair or scalp with over-zealous bleaching, or losing progress by trying to even out a partial removal with dark dye!

    For those curious about cassia, here's the thread:

    https://forums.longhaircommunity.com...read.php?t=406

    There are lots of other threads about henna, henna/cassia, and henna removal in the Recipes, Henna, and Herbal Haircare section of the forum.

    I've been tempted by henna a couple of times (for strengthening, mainly) but decided against it because while my hair is very dark, it's not pitch black as akurah says, so there would be some unpredictable colour change. Cassia is a fun way to gratify that urge to apply herbs to your hair for a lasting hair health improvement.
    Last edited by barnet_fair; January 18th, 2021 at 06:39 AM. Reason: typo
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  4. #24
    Member akurah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Quote Originally Posted by barnet_fair View Post
    I've been tempted by henna a couple of times (for strengthening, mainly) but decided against it because while my hair is very dark, it's not pitch black as akurah says, so there would be some unpredictable colour change. Cassia is a fun way to gratify that urge to apply herbs to your hair for a lasting hair health improvement.
    I dyed my hair with henna for something like... I want to say 5 to 7 years? I was one of those people, at the time of picking it up, had used red box dyes for the majority of my life.

    Problem is my natural hair is ashy brown, and the regrowth sucked. Looked greyish green. Also in order to get the shade of red I wanted, I needed multiple applications on regrowth. And because my length, despite being dark enough to look nice, was not as dark as I wanted, I was regularly doing full head applications, which was killing my neck (knee length hair and all). So I just decided to quit.

    If I could get the henna shade I wanted without the affiliated neck pain, and if I could darken the regrowth from neon orange (in darker lightening) to darker (neon orange in the sun being acceptable though) quicker than what I could back when I did it? I might still be doing it. But I just got so fed up I quit. If I ever go back to and maintain shorter hair (like APL or shorter) as a long-term commitment, I might pick it up again, but until then it's a solid no-go for me. As it is now, I've been bouncing from waist to knee for awhile because I can't be bothered to cut my hair and knee is apparently the tolerance I have for long hair.
    Lady Nemetona of the Blessed Circle in the Order of the Long Haired Knights

  5. #25
    Henna Seeress Nightshade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Quote Originally Posted by paulownia View Post
    Certainly
    The main idea behind the method is that most lightening procedures involving bleach, peroxide or organic acids, like citric or lactic acid, are not dissolving henna and indigo, they only oxidise it ( that's why it just changes color, to orange or green in case of indigo). That's why came an idea to use non-organic acid that can actually dissolve henna and indigo.
    Using coconut oil would help penetrate hair and lift the dissolved colours so they can be washed off.
    This is totally untrue.

    Lawsone binds to the hair via Michael Additon, it is a VERY stable chemical bond and not something coconut oil 'dissolves'. At best, you'll dissolve the plant wax coating that henna leaves behind, but that doesn't have any color in it anyway. This is why almost all attempts are removing henna fail, that sort of chemical bond is not coming undone.



    More generally, for what it's worth
    - hot oil may work a little if there is any lawsone residue tied up in the plant wax (this would have faded over time anyway)
    - yougurt doesn't work
    - amla doesn't work
    - Honey doesn't touch my henna and it's just a weaker version of peroxide.

    https://nightblooming.com/2020/01/13...ginger-copper/
    ^ This talks about what I did, but keep in mind, my goal was not to remove henna, so much as get copper-orange back, so YMMV with if it's a viable path for you.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
    This is totally untrue.

    Lawsone binds to the hair via Michael Additon, it is a VERY stable chemical bond and not something coconut oil 'dissolves'. At best, you'll dissolve the plant wax coating that henna leaves behind, but that doesn't have any color in it anyway. This is why almost all attempts are removing henna fail, that sort of chemical bond is not coming undone.



    More generally, for what it's worth
    - hot oil may work a little if there is any lawsone residue tied up in the plant wax (this would have faded over time anyway)
    - yougurt doesn't work
    - amla doesn't work
    - Honey doesn't touch my henna and it's just a weaker version of peroxide.

    https://nightblooming.com/2020/01/13...ginger-copper/
    ^ This talks about what I did, but keep in mind, my goal was not to remove henna, so much as get copper-orange back, so YMMV with if it's a viable path for you.
    I'm sorry to bother you but, out of pure curiosity what do you think the main contributing factor to my henna lifting so much might have been? Do you think it might be because I bleached my hair prior to applying the henna, that the henna I used was subpar (henna color lab), heavy oiling, heavy oiling using butter (), persistence, leaving on SMTs for a week or more at a time, or something else entirely?

    I'm often a bit confused as to how my henna managed to fade so much when it doesn't budge at all on others.

  7. #27
    Member Obsidian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    I would guess its due to your hair being bleached. I know when I used henna on bleached hair, it faded quite a lot. It took 4 or 5 applications before it stopped.
    When I had virgin hair, henna stuck to it like no ones business.
    Letting the sparkles grow

  8. #28
    Henna Seeress Nightshade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Quote Originally Posted by jane_marie View Post
    I'm sorry to bother you but, out of pure curiosity what do you think the main contributing factor to my henna lifting so much might have been? Do you think it might be because I bleached my hair prior to applying the henna, that the henna I used was subpar (henna color lab), heavy oiling, heavy oiling using butter (), persistence, leaving on SMTs for a week or more at a time, or something else entirely?

    I'm often a bit confused as to how my henna managed to fade so much when it doesn't budge at all on others.
    You're no bother at all

    I think it's probably a few factors.

    - The prior bleaching: when henna binds to the hair, it's binding to the protein molecules. If you had previously bleached your hair, it's going to tend to be protein deficient and might not have as many good undamaged ends on those protein molecules for the henna to grab onto. I suspect (but have no scientific proof) that a lot of fading in cases like this comes from a combination of a lot of the dye getting bound up in the henna wax (because it has little to bind to) and then fading and / or the damaged hair continuing to break off in tiny amounts (so if you picture the scales that make up the outside of a hair, those shed and break off over time).

    - I've not used Henna Color Lab so I can't speak to their quality directly, but quality does matter when it comes to getting henna and indigo to stick.

    - I do think deep oils prior to henna can prevent the water-based dye from penetrating deep into the hair. As far as heavy oilings after, I think this mostly gets the stuff bound up in the wax portion of the henna, and any residue generally left on the hair.

    And some people are just magical unicorns that way. I've only encountered a few, but NotApooka (former member here) was one of those--no matter what she did, henna just would. not. stick. to her hair. I wish I knew why!

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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
    You're no bother at all

    I think it's probably a few factors.

    - The prior bleaching: when henna binds to the hair, it's binding to the protein molecules. If you had previously bleached your hair, it's going to tend to be protein deficient and might not have as many good undamaged ends on those protein molecules for the henna to grab onto. I suspect (but have no scientific proof) that a lot of fading in cases like this comes from a combination of a lot of the dye getting bound up in the henna wax (because it has little to bind to) and then fading and / or the damaged hair continuing to break off in tiny amounts (so if you picture the scales that make up the outside of a hair, those shed and break off over time).

    - I've not used Henna Color Lab so I can't speak to their quality directly, but quality does matter when it comes to getting henna and indigo to stick.

    - I do think deep oils prior to henna can prevent the water-based dye from penetrating deep into the hair. As far as heavy oilings after, I think this mostly gets the stuff bound up in the wax portion of the henna, and any residue generally left on the hair.

    And some people are just magical unicorns that way. I've only encountered a few, but NotApooka (former member here) was one of those--no matter what she did, henna just would. not. stick. to her hair. I wish I knew why!
    Thanks so much for the explanation. I really appreciate you taking the time. I think henna is really fascinating.

  10. #30
    Dreamer Rini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Henna dread: trying to remove henna

    Just want to quickly chime in with my personal experience (as a former copper red henna head):

    I tried ALL the methods, and ended up getting a hairdresser to do a bleach bath on my hair. Of course it went BRIGHT napalm orange and then she coloured over it with a green based toner and we ended up with a fairly neutral blonde which I then grew out gradually (I'm naturally blonde/silver so it wasn't that annoying!).

    Henna sticks with you and can be your BFF, but if you've fallen out of love with it, it can be a tough break up. Best of luck!!

    LHC member for 15 years and ALWAYS learning!.....♥ Can I get to hip by my 50th birthday?

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