Removing henna?

[jane_marie]

What about the Sun-In method?

I guess I'm slightly confused about your desired end goal, OP. You originally wanted auburn, lightened to try to get the henna to show a bit, but it was too orange. But you do not want to do more applications of henna to push it darker, right? Is it your original dark-brown color you want to go back to, or a box auburn? You do not want to simply dye over the henna? Why? I would think dyeing over it, if it's dark-brown or auburn you want, should work okay without the henna needing to be removed first?

I'd like to go back to my deep brown but I don't really want to have to use a demi shade because I don't want to have to do it once every four weeks. Now, I could have swore that several people have told me you can't dye over henna with permanent dye... is that not correct? From my understanding the metals and developer in the dye can react harshly with henna.

[Nightshade]

I'd like to go back to my deep brown but I don't really want to have to use a demi shade because I don't want to have to do it once every four weeks. Now, I could have swore that several people have told me you can't dye over henna with permanent dye... is that not correct? From my understanding the metals and developer in the dye can react harshly with henna.

That's not true at all IF the henna you used was pure and doesn't have any chemical impurities in it. You should be able to dye over it, but you're going to have that telltale orange glow no matter what you do. It will help a lot, though.

Overall, I'd say try to remove as much of the henna as you can, then mix up a little permanant dye and try it just to be safe, then dye over everything with permanent dye if your strand test goes well.



I do think the plan of multiple goes at Color B4 is your best bet. I wrote on removing henna and indigo, and in my testing and experience I think these two methods are the best bet

[jane_marie]

That's not true at all IF the henna you used was pure and doesn't have any chemical impurities in it. You should be able to dye over it, but you're going to have that telltale orange glow no matter what you do. It will help a lot, though.

Overall, I'd say try to remove as much of the henna as you can, then mix up a little permanant dye and try it just to be safe, then dye over everything with permanent dye if your strand test goes well.



I do think the plan of multiple goes at Color B4 is your best bet. I wrote on removing henna and indigo, and in my testing and experience I think these two methods are the best bet
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Thank you so much for this! In the text you state that the vitamin C method is most effective. With that in mind, why would you suggest the color B4 instead? Which one would you say is least harsh?

[Nightshade]

Thank you so much for this! In the text you state that the vitamin C method is most effective. With that in mind, why would you suggest the color B4 instead? Which one would you say is least harsh?

I say that Vitamin C is the most effective for Indigo Color B4 is best for henna, and I did several rounds of it myself back in the day (without any resulting damage). I do think there is some value in alternating the two methods for henna, though, or following up the Color B4 method with the Vitamin C.

The main thing with the Color B4 is to rinse like mad because it will shrink some of the dye molecules and help them out of the hair. The Vitamin C method has, for some people, further helped pull the shrunken dye molecule out of the hair, but every time you do this keep in mind that you're going to be taking baby steps.

Color B4 and Vitamin C un-oxidize henna which can make it seem like you got out more of it than you did (your hair is going to seem a lighter, brighter orange), but you'll know your final color and how much you got out after a few days when what's left re-oxidizes.

You mentioned breaking up the lawsone molecule--that's way, way harder than with standard dye because the lawsone molecule binds directly to the protein in the hair through Michael Addition, which is very strong, and VERY stable. This is also the reason a lot of removing henna attempts are futile or why a lot of people wind up destroying their hair trying to get it out--most methods like bleaching are going to destroy the henna and the hair in equal measure.

[jane_marie]

First off Nightshade, thank you so much for helping me with this. I'm afraid I have a million annoying questions for you now that I know you are so knowledgeable. Hopefully you don't mind too much.

I say that Vitamin C is the most effective for Indigo

The second time I dyed I did use a mixture with indigo. It's my personal belief that most of that indigo has released due to oiling. I don;t know if that's a valid thought... I oiled a week after the treatment and when I rinsed my tub ended up a ruddy brown and my color is much less deep now. Do you think it's at all likely that any, most or all of my henna released?

It kind of sounds like just in case there is still indigo there I should probably start with the vitamin C and them move on to the Color B4.

You mentioned breaking up the lawsone molecule--that's way, way harder than with standard dye because the lawsone molecule binds directly to the protein in the hair through Michael Addition, which is very strong, and VERY stable.

Oh, I see. Well, clearly I'm too tenacious for my own good. Which should come as no surprise to me at all.

So, here's my natural shade on the right (Virgin hair in March) and my current shade on the left. Given that I just pull the indigo the rest of the way out do you think I could achieve something close to my natural shade by dying over the henna that is still there?



edit- your henna document is fascinating and extremely informative! Thank you.

[BerrySara]

For what it's worth I think your current shade of henna is absolutely stunning.

I can't imagine wanting to put my hair through the ringer to end up with potentially alot of damage when it looks so lovely.

[Nightshade]

First off Nightshade, thank you so much for helping me with this. I'm afraid I have a million annoying questions for you now that I know you are so knowledgeable. Hopefully you don't mind too much.

I don't mind at all ^_^ In your two pictures, is the brown one on the left your natural color and you're now the red color on the right and you want to dye it back to brown? I just want to make sure I understand right

The second time I dyed I did use a mixture with indigo. It's my personal belief that most of that indigo has released due to oiling. I don;t know if that's a valid thought... I oiled a week after the treatment and when I rinsed my tub ended up a ruddy brown and my color is much less deep now. Do you think it's at all likely that any, most or all of my henna released?

Generally when you get color washout with henna it's because of not rinsing it all out, not because it's coming out of the hair, but it's possible. Oil doesn't really do anything meaningful in terms of pulling henna.

It kind of sounds like just in case there is still indigo there I should probably start with the vitamin C and them move on to the Color B4.

I think I'd do it the other way, honestly. The Vitamin C treatment is used to lift direct dyes from the hair, which is why it works with indigo, but it might also help remove more of the ColorB4-shrunken henna molecules. I don't think there's harm in doingi it either way, though. Just rinse a LOT and use hot water (not scalding) and a strong shampoo.

edit- your henna document is fascinating and extremely informative! Thank you.

You're so welcome! I think you mean the article in my siggy? The pages I posted are from a book, but regardless I'm glad you found the information helpful!

[jane_marie]

In your two pictures, is the brown one on the left your natural color and you're now the red color on the right and you want to dye it back to brown? I just want to make sure I understand right

Sorry. I switch words on occasion and did so multiple times during this line of questioning. Yes, the color on the left is my virgin hair and the color on the right is where my henna is at right now. I would like to go back to that dark brown (or something like it).

Generally when you get color washout with henna it's because of not rinsing it all out, not because it's coming out of the hair, but it's possible. Oil doesn't really do anything meaningful in terms of pulling henna.

Another word replacement issue here. I meant to say I think I released the indigo while oiling not the henna. I was attempting to ask if you think it's possible I released most of my indigo while oiling

You're so welcome! I think you mean the article in my siggy? The pages I posted are from a book, but regardless I'm glad you found the information helpful!

Yes! The article in your signature! I loved it.

[jane_marie]

For what it's worth I think your current shade of henna is absolutely stunning.

I can't imagine wanting to put my hair through the ringer to end up with potentially alot of damage when it looks so lovely.

That's so sweet of you to say! I do think it's a pretty shade. I just don't like it at all on me for a variety or reasons that are too numerous to list. I'm really hoping I can get it to lighten without using a destructive method. In truth I'm starting to hope I can lighten once or twice do a strand test and then do an all over espresso that is close to my natural shade.

[Melkharesa]

I have a question about lightening henna. My hair has lots of different shades in it - darker underneath, lighter on top from exposure to sun and I also used some blonding spray recently. It's currently a lovely orange shade of henna and I'd like to lighten it a bit - maybe one shade? - before trying some semi permanent dye. I want a more crimson red colour. Rather than using the blonding spray, can I use a lightening kit to lighten all of my hair just one shade? What volume would I get and how long would I leave it in? Thanks 😊