Lush hair care?

[MusicalSpoons]

SLS is used in some products at a very low concentration as an emulsifier; this page says 0.9% as an emulsifier in aqueous creams (used by people with moderate to very severe skin conditions; interesting to note that such creams do still cause irritation for some people! I suspect the manufacturers keep it in there just because it's cheap and reliable ) and quotes shampoos as having up to 10%. I just looked on the Lush website UK for American Cream conditioner ingredients, and no way is that a proper INCI (unless there really are chunks of whole, fresh strawberries in there?!?!) so I don't know what to think.

Actually, the US website has a more INCI-looking list than the UK site but why they say specifically fresh oranges and fresh strawberries - how does that even work? Which part of the fruits are they using? So many questions!

The Cetearyl Alcohol & SLS has this explanation:

Cetearyl alcohol and sodium lauryl sulphate make an emulsifying wax. We use this wax in our conditioners and hair moisturisers. In our quantitative ingredients list, if ingredients are listed with an ampersand, it means they are combined together to make one material.

Description
The wax softens and coats the hair, making it controllable.

It thickens a product, making it easy to apply, which means the other natural ingredients can be massaged into the scalp and through the hair itself. We use the wax in our hair care range for these reasons.

https://uk.lush.com/ingredients/cete...lauryl-sulfate

I mean, could they not have given this explanation when asked directly? And what is this resulting wax product actually called? Again with the baffling lack of clarity!

EDIT: Actually rereading the page about aqueous creams has answered one of my own questions (reread for about the 5th time, gotta love that brainfog )

SLS, a component of emulsifying wax, which is an ingredient of AC. SLS is produced from coconut or palm oil and in low concentration acts as an emulsifier (keeps oil dissolved in water) and at higher levels is a detergent (foams up and removes grease and oil) and antiseptic.
...
AC labels and information leaflets should contain a warning of potential local skin reactions and SLS should be listed separately as an ingredient.

So that's probably why it's listed with the cetearyl alcohol, not just listed as 'emulsifying wax'.
Also renia22 this might be interesting:

Some researchers have used concentrations of 2% SLS to test for skin sensitivity

... but no actual sources, and only the generic 'yes it causes irritation, generally more likely on the face'. That's still a heck of a lot lower concentration (for SLS by itself) than seen in the harshest shampoos (up to 10%, quoted on that page).

[leafygreens18]

I'm pretty familiar with cetearyl alcohol as an emulsifier as there's a few articles about it for curly girls. It seems to be a product I can't really avoid. It seems to be in pretty much everything that works for my hair, though I do avoid it on my face.

[lapushka]

I have seen sulfates way down on the list in "some" conditioners (don't ask me which ones because it's a general observation from a long time ago when I was picking my ingredients apart) but they never caused me problems and I figured it was a different usage than being a detergent due to it being so low-down on the list.

[MusicalSpoons]

I'm pretty familiar with cetearyl alcohol as an emulsifier as there's a few articles about it for curly girls. It seems to be a product I can't really avoid. It seems to be in pretty much everything that works for my hair, though I do avoid it on my face.

If this is in response to my comment, I was focusing on the SLS part of the emulsifying wax, not cetearyl alcohol - unless cetearyl alcohol *is* the emulsifying wax? In which case I didn't know that (and makes the point that their ingredients list is not clear). I just thought it was in the family of common conditioning fatty alcohols

[renia22]

^Thank you for the info, MusicalSpoons. They do seem to sneak it into products. I try to avoid it in facial washes because it can cause acne. Liquid shampoos I seem to do okay with. I do like Lush’s daddyO shampoo. I wonder what the concentration is for the shampoo bars? Not sure if LHC member MitzuKitty is still around, but there was a thread a while back where she posted photos of shredded SLS, which Lush basically shapes into a hockey puck and throws in a few other ingredients for their shampoo bars. Those shampoo bars do scary things to my hair .

Paula Begoun mentions SLS being used as an emulsifier here also, but she gives this ingredient a “poor” rating:

https://www.paulaschoice.com/ingredi...l-sulfate.html

[MusicalSpoons]

You're welcome I don't always agree with Paula Begoun but I do avoid SLS; my scalp, skin and gums feel so much better without it (and without sulphates generally, though for SLES use on my face and body I can compensate if need be by slathering on moisturiser - I prefer not to, though!).

[leafygreens18]

If this is in response to my comment, I was focusing on the SLS part of the emulsifying wax, not cetearyl alcohol - unless cetearyl alcohol *is* the emulsifying wax? In which case I didn't know that (and makes the point that their ingredients list is not clear). I just thought it was in the family of common conditioning fatty alcohols

Oh yeah no worries! I was just adding to the discussion as I see these emollients in my conditioner all the time and I've yet to come across one that also needed SLS in addition.

These larger alcohols are typically derived from natural sources, and have 12 or more carbons per molecule (typically 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20). This higher amount of carbon content makes these molecules oilier (also referred to as ‘fatty’). For this reason, they are often used as an emollient in skin and haircare products. They give a smooth, soft feeling to the hair shaft by helping the cuticle to lie flat on the surface of the hair. However, if used in excess, fatty alcohols can combine with the natural sebum found on the scalp and form a sticky substance that makes the hair look greasy.

That's from an article from Naturally Curly by Tonya McKay Becker. https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlr...about-alcohols

[LillyBlossom]

Wow, its seems you either love them or hate them. I had no idea there was such controversy around these products. I have to say though, my hair has never looked better. I keep getting comments on it as well, even from strangers. I love the treatments, especially the 'roots' and 'jasmine and henna fluff ease'.

I can understand how the smell could bother some people, they are strong, but I love the way they make my hair smell.

I always had lanky not pretty hair if I CO washed, but if I CO wash with lush veganesse I don't have that problem, maybe its the SLS in the products. I guess everyone's hair is different, but I'm really glad I tried these products, I went and purchased full size bottles yesterday. It is expensive but not really any more expensive than the salon products I used to use.

I'm definitely a fan!

[Jillxoag]

I dont like lush hair products. They dont make my hair feel as nice as I would expect at their price point. I wanted to like it because the shampoo bars are less wasteful but i couldn't tolerate it.
I do enjoy their soaps, bath bombs etc.

[Suortuva]

I used Coconut oil as a ROO under my American Cream conditioner with good results, it didn't rip my hair this time. I'm very pleased, because now I can use it as a conditioner. I was disappointed after my first use, but coconut oil seems to do the trick.