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Thread: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

  1. #11

    Default Re: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

    Quote Originally Posted by lapushka View Post
    If you have a condition that requires the use of ketaconazole (fungus), I would stop oiling the scalp. Oil is what fungus thrives on, be it your own oil or oil you add.

    I have SD, and use Nizoral 2% (ketoconazole) shampoo when I have strong bouts of it, and I never ever use oil on my scalp!
    I don't understand, so what exactly does the shampoo do then? And why would my doctor prescribe the medicated oil with it?

  2. #12
    Lacemaking longhair MusicalSpoons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

    Quote Originally Posted by kmmkatey View Post
    I don't understand, so what exactly does the shampoo do then? And why would my doctor prescribe the medicated oil with it?
    This is very confusing. The National Eczema Society also has a section for sebhorreic dermatitis as a type of eczema, even though the causes of SD and plain ol' eczema are completely different I think you'd be best off asking your doctor exactly what they think is going on, and ask why exactly they prescribed what they did, what each is supposed to do (with an explanation linked to what they think the actual cause is). If they cannot tell you that, time to ask for either a second opinion or ideally referral to a specialist. Explain that the shampoo helps a bit, the oil doesn't, and why you don't want to use the shampoo every time you wash.
    The only reason I can think of why ketoconazole might help a primarily non-fungal issue is secondary: if the skin has broken and lets in a normal colony of malassezia, which then has opportunity to become a problem, it sorts that out ... ? I don't know, that's all I can think of - and it wouldn't help the primary non-fungal problem either, as far as I'm aware

    As a related question, what kinds of shampoos have you tried before? Have they all had similar cleansers? There are some very mild options out there which, if it is simply eczema ('simply', I know, if only! But I mean without being SD or something else), are less likely to make your skin react.

    There is also the option of pursuing natural cleansing methods such as different types of flours - it might be a lot of work to find your ideal mix but the potential payoff may be worth it for you. Unless it is actually SD in the guise of eczema, in which case ignore those last 2 paragraphs!

    Edit: the fact you've found some oils to help and the rest not to is fascinating - it must be something to do with the composition of the oils, which might help pinpoint what the underlying issue is. There must be some info about what exactly malassezia feeds on, which fatty acids, and that might hold the key to working it out. *Might* hold the key.
    Last edited by MusicalSpoons; December 8th, 2018 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Afterthought
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  3. #13

    Default Re: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicalSpoons View Post
    This is very confusing. The National Eczema Society also has a section for sebhorreic dermatitis as a type of eczema, even though the causes of SD and plain ol' eczema are completely different I think you'd be best off asking your doctor exactly what they think is going on, and ask why exactly they prescribed what they did, what each is supposed to do (with an explanation linked to what they think the actual cause is). If they cannot tell you that, time to ask for either a second opinion or ideally referral to a specialist. Explain that the shampoo helps a bit, the oil doesn't, and why you don't want to use the shampoo every time you wash.
    The only reason I can think of why ketoconazole might help a primarily non-fungal issue is secondary: if the skin has broken and lets in a normal colony of malassezia, which then has opportunity to become a problem, it sorts that out ... ? I don't know, that's all I can think of - and it wouldn't help the primary non-fungal problem either, as far as I'm aware

    As a related question, what kinds of shampoos have you tried before? Have they all had similar cleansers? There are some very mild options out there which, if it is simply eczema ('simply', I know, if only! But I mean without being SD or something else), are less likely to make your skin react.

    There is also the option of pursuing natural cleansing methods such as different types of flours - it might be a lot of work to find your ideal mix but the potential payoff may be worth it for you. Unless it is actually SD in the guise of eczema, in which case ignore those last 2 paragraphs!

    Edit: the fact you've found some oils to help and the rest not to is fascinating - it must be something to do with the composition of the oils, which might help pinpoint what the underlying issue is. There must be some info about what exactly malassezia feeds on, which fatty acids, and that might hold the key to working it out. *Might* hold the key.
    Yeah, I tend to pick pretty badly at my scalp and the skin is often broken and painful. That is probably why the shampoo was prescribed, to prevent malassezia as you say. If that is the case, I donít know why she wouldnít prescribe something else for the actual problem I will definitely need to ask why she has prescribed what she has and get more information.

    So far, I have tried head and shoulders, selsun blue, a gentle sulfate free tea tree oil shampoo, a sulfate free coconut oil shampoo, and then a mint and tea tree oil shampoo. I gave up on shampoo after those because the flare ups I got after any shampoo were so bad. I then tried head and shoulders almond conditioner but it really didnít do anything (not worse not better), and now I am using the argan oil cowash which helps a little.

    I donít really understand the oil situation and why argan has been the only one that is okay. I checked out that site Lapushka included and argan has about the same amount of lipids as the ones I donít tolerate well so itís not that. I didnít find anything about argan oil and triglycerides though. Coconut oil is high on that and it effects me the most. Maybe it is the triglycerides? I have no idea.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

    I've found any medicated shampoos are too harsh for my scalp so I'm surprised that the doctor recommended it. If it's not really moisturizing, I wouldn't use it. In my experience, ketaconazole is for SD and is a harsher shampoo.
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  5. #15

    Default Re: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty89 View Post
    I've found any medicated shampoos are too harsh for my scalp so I'm surprised that the doctor recommended it. If it's not really moisturizing, I wouldn't use it. In my experience, ketaconazole is for SD and is a harsher shampoo.
    I agree, I think itís only made things worse for me in all actuality. It made the soreness feel better after I overly scratched, but I think the whole reason itís still been so itchy is because the shampoo is harsh. I didnít use it yesterday and my head doesnít feel quite as bad. Iím going to just throw the shampoo away.

  6. #16
    Member lapushka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

    Quote Originally Posted by kmmkatey View Post
    I agree, I think it’s only made things worse for me in all actuality. It made the soreness feel better after I overly scratched, but I think the whole reason it’s still been so itchy is because the shampoo is harsh. I didn’t use it yesterday and my head doesn’t feel quite as bad. I’m going to just throw the shampoo away.
    I have SD. And trust me, Nizoral 2% is not a mild shampoo but to go out of your way and say it is *harsh* is a little much, IMMHO. Especially because there is someone who is in the midst of getting treatment.

    Take it from me, and I'm 46 I have struggled with this for *years* and learned a lesson or two (or 3), before you start experimenting with a slew of products that might exacerbate it rather than make it better, I would go back to the doctor, and if she prescribes something for you, then *trust* that and do what she wants you to do and keep it up until it clears. That's my only advice.

    It might not work RIGHT NOW, but need time, that was one of my mistakes as well. I tried the shampoo once, and it didn't clear it up fully and so I thought it wasn't doing anything. WRONG. It takes time. And Nizoral 2% you need to let sit on your head for 5 to 10 min. so you do need to follow the directions to a T!

    Anyway, good luck and I hope you find something that works.

    But I'd go back to the doctor asap, and before you can mess it up further, and do what she tells you to do. Even if you have your own opinions, even if you think it's wrong or harsh or not suited for you, even though you think she's wrong because Google told you so... BTDT, brought me nothing but trouble.

    In the end, I listened and I'm SD-free now mostly until I get a bout of it.
    WCC method (washing) --- Rinse-out oil (MO) --- LOC/LCO method (styling)

  7. #17

    Default Re: Protein free cowash/conditioner recommendations? (argan or jojoba oil preferred)

    Quote Originally Posted by lapushka View Post
    I have SD. And trust me, Nizoral 2% is not a mild shampoo but to go out of your way and say it is *harsh* is a little much, IMMHO. Especially because there is someone who is in the midst of getting treatment.

    Take it from me, and I'm 46 I have struggled with this for *years* and learned a lesson or two (or 3), before you start experimenting with a slew of products that might exacerbate it rather than make it better, I would go back to the doctor, and if she prescribes something for you, then *trust* that and do what she wants you to do and keep it up until it clears. That's my only advice.

    It might not work RIGHT NOW, but need time, that was one of my mistakes as well. I tried the shampoo once, and it didn't clear it up fully and so I thought it wasn't doing anything. WRONG. It takes time. And Nizoral 2% you need to let sit on your head for 5 to 10 min. so you do need to follow the directions to a T!

    Anyway, good luck and I hope you find something that works.

    But I'd go back to the doctor asap, and before you can mess it up further, and do what she tells you to do. Even if you have your own opinions, even if you think it's wrong or harsh or not suited for you, even though you think she's wrong because Google told you so... BTDT, brought me nothing but trouble.

    In the end, I listened and I'm SD-free now mostly until I get a bout of it.
    Yeah, but right now I do not have the money to visit her again or an actual dermatologist. I have been using the shampoo for about two months now as directed (10 minutes left on before washing), and as I said, it helps with the pain from scratching my scalp but I am pretty positive it has overall made the situation worse. I completely cut out shampoos because of the reactions I was having. Growing up, shampoo has always been awful for me so I would avoid using it until my hair and scalp felt disgusting from grease. Despite deciding to stop shampoo altogether, I allowed this one because it was medicated. I think that was a bad choice for me honestly so I do not want to use shampoo again.

    Cowash seems to be the best option for me. I think my doctor is just struggling to help me with the situation, I did write her yesterday and she replied this morning telling me I need to go to the dermatologist and gave me a referral. I would normally just go anyway and pay off the bill at a better time, but I have already done that and do not want to stack up expenses. This is something I need to try to solve on my own for now at least. It isn't just about opinion though, I have noticed that the shampoo is not suited for me personally so although it may have been recommended, that does not mean it is guaranteed to work.

    I appreciate the advice though.

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