Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[kimki]

I have been washing it out with a shampoo bar. With the cinnamon I found that using a CO wash it helped to get some of it out.

I will let you know how I get on with the Cardamon later.

[ktani]

kimki

I look forward to your report.

[ktani]

This is not specific to honey lightening but it is by the same authors on the specific flavonoids that are also found in honey, the spices and EVOO.

"Experimental evidence suggests .... most herbs and spices possess .... wide range of biological and pharmacological activities .... may protect tissues against H2O2-induced damage."
http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/bjon/abstract.00002375-200702000-00014.htm;jsessionid=L6WWwPxnshRrQYgF4TVjfl2VF9kJm Vn1nmky7LLhGhfGJJ8NJFTY!-1539859368!181195628!8091!-1

It looks like my theory is not only not original - it is being researched vigorously from a different approach. The plants in this study do not produce hydrogen peroxide except in minimal amounts.


Various herbal teas and their hydrogen peroxide production are discussed here.

"Herbal teas .... popular because .... antioxidative activity. .... antioxidative activity comes mainly from polyphenols, Levels of H2O2 in the teas .... examined, since the production of H2O2 in beverages such as coffee and green tea, has been reported. Only a small amount of H2O2 was detected in the herbal teas ... after their preparation with hot water. .... H2O2 was gradually produced during incubation at 25 °C after extraction with hot water .... when the teas were incubated in phosphate buffer at pH 7.4."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...f918eccbe01105

[LadyPolaris]

The recent discoveries you have been making are SO interesting, scientist ktani!! So that is why it is not damaging, even though it involves peroxide - the antioxidants present in these natural ingredients combat the free radicals that are responsible for the damage. Very interesting.

On the other hand, vitamin C - even though it is an antioxidant - is not recommended, as it kills the peroxide.

Cardamom has a higher vitamin C content than cinnamon, but also a higher peroxide value, and washes out more easily.

So my next steps should be:
- replace cinnamon with cardamom
- find a dark, mixed source honey with low content of ascorbid acid

In a nutshell, is that it? My memory is failing me nowadays - too much studying. (I have to know thousands of pages of law by heart until June).

[ktani]

The recent discoveries you have been making are SO interesting, scientist ktani!! So that is why it is not damaging, even though it involves peroxide - the antioxidants present in these natural ingredients combat the free radicals that are responsible for the damage. Very interesting.

On the other hand, vitamin C - even though it is an antioxidant - is not recommended, as it kills the peroxide.

Cardamom has a higher vitamin C content than cinnamon, but also a higher peroxide value, and washes out more easily.

So my next steps should be:
- replace cinnamon with cardamom
- find a dark, mixed source honey with low content of ascorbid acid

In a nutshell, is that it? My memory is failing me nowadays - too much studying. (I have to know thousands of pages of law by heart until June).

LadyPolaris

You are too kind. I am not a scientist.

And as I have said, iris first realized the Vitamin C connection, which I completely forgot about and had not absorbed at the time. I read about it again in a link I found and this time I understood the implications.

Cardamom does have a very small Vitamin C content but its peroide value is higher than that of cinnamon.

Cinnamon has no Vitamin C content.

Here is the list of Vitamin C contents for ingredients that are now, have been included in honey lightening recipes previously or are just interesting, IMO.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=429

It is not just that the phenolic acids and flavonoids combat the free radicals - some of them chelate the free iron which produces the oxygen free radicals. It is more complicated than I am capable of understanding completely.

You should be just fine trying a dark coloured honey blend and using cardamom - which has been reported to wash out of the hair easier - after patch testing it first.

You can add a small amount of EVOO to your - I recommend chamomile - Roman (Anthemis nobilis) 1 cup of tea to 1/4 cup of honey.

[LadyPolaris]

Thank you for the clarification and the reminders - and that's a very interesting list of vitamin C content for all our natural ingredients!

So cinammon doesn't have vitamin C at all, which is good. But I cannot wait to patch test whatever ground cardamom I can find, I'm not sure I like the minty tingle on my scalp which is attributed to cinnamon. (I'm afraid the tingle will get worse with time, as allergic reactions sometimes do.) I'm hoping cardamom won't act this way on my skin, so here's to a successful patch test!

I should do my 3rd treatment this week, it's not certain though, I'm having to study harder now, exam closing in... but I will follow your new recipe to a T, provided I can find ground cardamom in time.

Thank you again And keep up the great research! I don't mind that you're not really a scientist - you do a scientist's work around here and that's as good as being a scientist, in my book.

[ktani]

LadyPolaris

Good luck with the exams!

And thank you again for being so sweet, appreciative and complimentary.

It is all of you who are field testing my theories and recommendations.

You can use whatever chamomile tea you like - the Roman is my pick - chamomile tea has been reported at least once to help counter spice irritation

[ktani]

Going back to the original research on honey

“…. harmful effects of hydrogen peroxide …. reduced because honey sequesters and inactivates the free iron which catalyses the formation of oxygen free radicals produced by hydrogen peroxide .... and its antioxidant components help to mop up oxygen free radicals ....”
http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2001/november/Molan/honey-as-topical-agent.html



The flavonoids and a phenolic compound shown to protect cells from hydrogen peroxide damage, and present in honey, the spices and the oils used in honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=974


“Protection by the Flavonoids Myricetin, Quercetin, and Rutin Against Hydrogen Peroxide-Induced DNA Damage …. "
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/con...5829746~db=all

“In the Ames test, gallic acid esters showed protective effects against H2O2-induced cytotoxicity …."
http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/ind...s&therow=25033



are also iron chelators and antioxidants.

“The ability of the phenolic compounds which chelate iron …. gallic acid ….”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...f753f331eb3464

“The protective ability of quercetin and rutin …. related to their iron-chelating activity”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...a250497efbe110

“These results suggested that the protective effects of myricetin …. attributed to the myricetin-suppressed iron toxicity.”
http://www.neuroreport.com/pt/re/neu...195628!8091!-1

[DolphinPrincess]

Funny thing happened today, when I went to get my camera to try to take pics, it wasn't there. I would assume that my SO was using it and didn't put it back (a very common thing) or my 3yo monster, I mean little boy, hid it for me.

[ktani]

DolphinPrincess

Please do not keep me in suspence.

I will accept a verbal description in lieu of a picture until you can find the camera.

Not everyone includes pictures, although they are always welcome.

How did your hair turn out after this cornstarch experiment?