Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

Body heat does not affect the peroxide in honey, based on the research on wound healing and reported results.

However, other sources of heat can affect peroxide.

"Hydrogen peroxide .... contact with heat .... usually decompose into water and oxygen ...."
http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistr...oxide/home.htm

“What factors contribute to the decomposition of H2O2?
.... primary factors contributing to H2O2 decomposition …. increasing temperature …. increasing contamination …. metals …. copper, manganese or iron) …. "
http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2

This is consistant with other information I have read on heat negatively affecting the peroxide level of honey.

And why I recommend that no external heat be used with honey lightening treatments.

[ktani]

I am making another new recommendation.

Because it has not been reported to be irritating so far, and because of its very high peroxide level (compared to other spices), I now recomend using cardamom instead of cinnamon.

I am trying to eliminate potential problems with honey lightening.

Conditioners were the first problem, with possible ingredients that could interfere with lightening and now with their water content.

Eliminating conditioners from the recipes solves both problems. They no longer serve a purpose in the recipes with the new dilution, IMO.

Cinnamon irritation has been mentioned in reports frequently. Thankfully, the problem has been temporary but to me, it is troubling.

Replacing cinnamon with cardamom makes sense to me at this time.

DolphinPrincess has used cardamom a few times now in her mixes, even in the 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilutions, with no reported problems, to date.

She had major irritation previously from using cinnamon, that cleared up quickly but was alarming.

Cardamom may even take honey lightening to the next level.

Please do not use too much cardamom until you know how well you can tolerate it and of course, patch test it first.

Cardamom has traditionally been used to whiten teeth and freshen breath (chewing the seeds) and has been used to treat redness on skin.

POV - Peroxide value of spices. Cardamom has the highest peroxide level listed here - its small Vitamin C content IMO, should be compensated for by its POV. The other spices listed with high POV's can be irritants.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8...Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

An encore of my new recommendation.

[GlennaGirl]

I don't want to mess with the works here... but so far my cardamom experience has not been very positive.

First off, I have had no irritating effects from cinnamon.

But I read about the cardamom so I went to the grocery store to pick some up. FOURTEEN dollars. But I got it anyway. First off, the smell. Oh sweet Jesus the smell. I'm not sensitive about smells but this one honestly made me nauseated. I smell like the Bad Kids in high school who used the heaviest possible Eastern fragrance oils to cover up the smell of pot. I'm sorry...I'm not even trying to be funny, that is the first thing that came to mind.

I can still smell it even now that it's washed out twice and covered with vanilla conditioner and it is making me really sick.

Second...the irritation. I'm sorry, kitani. I know you said nobody else has reported irritation. This burned and itched the entire application area from the very second I put it on. I was a trooper and left it in for two hours anyway. All rinsed out now and my scalp still hurts horribly and I'm hoping desperately that I haven't harmed my scalp.

I don't know about any color change yet because it's still wet. If there is a color change, I'll be thrilled, but I will not be using cardamom again.

[ktani]

GlennaGirl

I am so sorry that this happened to you.

I have said to patch test cardamom but that does not help you right now.

There is a warning in one of the links about making sure that what you buy is cardamom but that is no help to you at this point either.

I had recommeded to DolphinPrincess to use the cardamom in chamomile tea and not to use too much.

What did you use in in and how much did you use?

I am not trying to change your mind - I want to know for others.

In the future - if something irritates from the start - wash if off - there is no point suffering for beauty - a concept I disagree with.

For you - cinnamon is obviously a better choice - however - as I have said before - caution with spices is advised.

The 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution has allowed less spice to be used with better results than previously.

You are and haved not messed up the works as you put it.

I do not think that you have harmed your scalp.

I have had bad reactions to flax preparations and others - it took a while for my scalp to recover but there were no long term repercussions.

My worst reaction was from a condtioner ingredient - it was horrible - no long term damage though.

I do sympathize - it is a hard thing to deal with - very uncomfortable. - it will pass though, IMO.

You might try aloe gel on your scalp - that may help.

Cardamom is not for you - that is the way it is.

I still recomend it in place of cinnamon - with patch testing first.

[GlennaGirl]

ktani, I used about a tablespoon and a half of the cardamom. I use much more of the cinnamon but I did see where you advised using less at first to see if there's a reaction.

The cardamom I used is "Spice Islands Ground Cardamom". It says it is distributed by Spice Islands Trading Co., a division of ACH Food Companies, Inc., San Francisco, CA, www.spiceislands.com.

[ktani]

GlennaGirl

Thank you for getting back to me with the amount you used.

From that link - it looks like real cardamom.

I do not know how other varieties might be different on skin.

I understand your enthusiasm and that of others for wanting to try these things in a hurry.

I probably would have done the same thing.

Patch testing is an important part of trying anything new IMO.

I have ignored that in the past myself - and paid the price.

[ktani]

While anyone can react to anything - I want to take a closer look at possible different cardamom brands.

Nothing replaces patch testing though.

DolphinPrincess - what brand of cardamom did you use please?

I have posted this before - I will post it again - I recommend using cardamom in a base of chamomile tea because it can help to counter irritation.


This is from a previous post that I encored tonight.
Cardamom safety
See "Safety"
"No toxicity ... reported for cardamom ... care needs to be taken that the plant being used is cardamom ... not a substitute."
http://www.plantcultures.org/plants/..._medicine.html

[ktani]

I do not think that this applies to GlennaGirl's cardamom but it it worth taking note of, IMO.

"Cardamom Elettaria cardamomum
Cardamom .... is often adulterated .... many inferior substitutes from cardamom-related plants, such as Siam cardamom, Nepal cardamom, winged Java cardamom, and bastard cardamom."
http://www.pajebynight.net/spice.html

[Gabriel]

My honey treatment came out really good... not much lightening just a little bit near the lower part of my hair that I am guessing is more porus cause it's older hair, and a bit of kind of a toning effect overall... nothing earth shattering, because my hair is very dark, just a touch more golden and less red.

It left it very shiney and healthy feeling.

I will try this again following the recipe more exactly for actual lightening next time.
Oh and the cinnamon didn't bother me at all. I also kept my hair covered while it sat in my hair for about an hour and a half.

I really liked this. Thanks for all the recipes and information!

[ktani]

From the research - as I posted - cardamom can be both an irritant and a sensitizer but it does not appear to be as common a problem in terms of the number of reactions - as cinnamon.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=877

It is not something that should be used again IMO, if you get a reaction like GlennaGirl's - that is why patch testing is recommended.

Do I patch test absolutely everything? - No.

I am guilty of hypocracy on that.

But I am the only one to pay the price of it.

I feel a sense of responsibility to all of you and recommnd only the best of what I believe in - even though I may fall short of living it myself.