Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

This information is right on the mark in terms of cassia cinnamon, cosmetics containing coumarin and this thread.

"The Federal Institute for Risk Assessment recommends reducing total intake

natural .... coumarin, can cause liver damage in highly sensitive individuals. .... the effect can be reversed once coumarin intake is halted. This plant ingredient is found in woodruff and sweet clover and there are higher levels in cassia cinnamon, too. ... synthetically produced coumarin is added as a fragrance to cosmetics and can reach the body through the skin. The Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BfR) has evaluated the analytical results .... in order to assess the scale on which cosmetics contribute to consumer exposure to coumarin. The result: consumers could already exceed the tolerable daily intake ... of coumarin just by using cosmetics with high coumarin levels."
http://www.bfr.bund.de/cd/10569

[ktani]

How to tell cassia cinnamon and true cinnamon apart

This link has pictures and details. The link that they ask people to click on does not say that Germany banned imports of cassia cinnamon. It may have at one time. However, the other information as far as I can determine is both very helpful and accurate.

I think that I could now tell the 2 apart if I were to see the products in stick form. In powder form, that would be more difficult. I really like this link.
From previous research, true cinnamon oil has the same constituent that cassia cinnamon oil does and it is considered to be an irritant too.

The coumarin content amounts are significantly different.
http://www.ceylon-cinnamon.com/Identify-Cinnamon.htm

[firebird]

That's really interesting about cinnamon and coumarin. I never knew about coumarins in cosmetics, it's good to know. Thanks again ktani for all your research! It seems like cardamon could be a safer alternative, although I guess if you are careful about not getting cinnamon on your skin, it would be fine too.

Since doing the cassia/honey treatment, I have done two honey treatments. Cassia has definitely made my hair darker, but to me that's not really a problem, as my main issue was to blend my new growth and dyed hair, so darkening the length actually did help in that. In pictures with flash, it does look redder.

Anyway, the first honey treatment was 1 part honey and 2 parts conditioner, a 1:3 ratio, but I figured it would dilute more on the hair, as I applied it to soaking wet hair? I left it for two hours, it's hard for me to tell if affected the colour, as in the pictures I took, the lighting is darker for some reason.

In the second treatment, I decided to try tea. I found DH had some herbal tea which included cinnamon, ginger, camomile, catnip and peppermint, so I mixed 1 part honey to 3 parts tea, with a tablespoon of EVOO and cinnamon. After I washed it out, my hair felt very different from previous honey treatments - I wouldn't really call it fried, but if I made a ponytail with my hand and squeezed it, it made an audible 'crunch'. When I ran my hand over it, it felt rough, not smooth or soft like before. Maybe my hair actually did need the conditioner in the mixture? I don't think it is residue, as I shampooed it thoroughly, actually twice to get the cinnamon out. I since oiled it with EVOO and washed again, and it's fine. Again, the pictures I took came out very dark, so I'm not sure what effect it had.

I want to try Mellie's mix and cardamon, but I haven't been out much to get ingredients as DH hurt his back, meaning much time at the VA

[ktani]

That's really interesting about cinnamon and coumarin. I never knew about coumarins in cosmetics, it's good to know. Thanks again ktani for all your research! It seems like cardamon could be a safer alternative, although I guess if you are careful about not getting cinnamon on your skin, it would be fine too.

Since doing the cassia/honey treatment, I have done two honey treatments. Cassia has definitely made my hair darker, but to me that's not really a problem, as my main issue was to blend my new growth and dyed hair, so darkening the length actually did help in that. In pictures with flash, it does look redder.

Anyway, the first honey treatment was 1 part honey and 2 parts conditioner, a 1:3 ratio, but I figured it would dilute more on the hair, as I applied it to soaking wet hair? I left it for two hours, it's hard for me to tell if affected the colour, as in the pictures I took, the lighting is darker for some reason.

In the second treatment, I decided to try tea. I found DH had some herbal tea which included cinnamon, ginger, camomile, catnip and peppermint, so I mixed 1 part honey to 3 parts tea, with a tablespoon of EVOO and cinnamon. After I washed it out, my hair felt very different from previous honey treatments - I wouldn't really call it fried, but if I made a ponytail with my hand and squeezed it, it made an audible 'crunch'. When I ran my hand over it, it felt rough, not smooth or soft like before. Maybe my hair actually did need the conditioner in the mixture? I don't think it is residue, as I shampooed it thoroughly, actually twice to get the cinnamon out. I since oiled it with EVOO and washed again, and it's fine. Again, the pictures I took came out very dark, so I'm not sure what effect it had.

I want to try Mellie's mix and cardamon, but I haven't been out much to get ingredients as DH hurt his back, meaning much time at the VA

firebird

I am sorry to read about your DH hurting his back. I hope that he recovers soon.

Thank you for your feedback, new recipes and results.

I am glad that you found the research helpful.

The 4 to 1 liquid to honey ratio is done before the treatment is applied - doing a 3 to 1 ratio will not dilute that much more on wet hair IMO, although I understand your reasoning.

The 1 part honey to 3 parts tea with EVOO and cinnamon sounds conditioning but obviously was not.

Some herbal teas are just tea with added herbs - that can make a difference in results as well.

In Mellie's Mix, the mullein contains some mucilage, which would help with smoothness.

nayver got a bit of dryness on her ends but shampooing and a vinegar rinse helped her with that.

Honey residue can be issue and so can oil residue - the 2 may have combined in your case.

I am also glad to read that your hair recovered fairly quickly.

You may find that you do not need to do both a shampoo and a vinegar rinse following Mellie's Mix.

I suggest trying it without the lemon juice for sure and without the cardamom, first.

[firebird]

Hi ktani, thanks for your post and reminding me about the mullein, that definitely sounds like it would help. I'll try the 1:4 honey in future too. The tea I used was just herbs not tea, the ingredients are listed as: eleuthero, peppermint, cinnamon, ginger, chamomile, West Indian lemongrass, licorice, catnip, tilia flowers, natural lemon with other natural flavors (contains soy lecithin), hops, and Vitamins B6 and B12 (celestial seasonings 'tension tamer'). Maybe it was something in the tea? I have just tried it as a rinse to see how my hair likes it otherwise. I'll get the ingredients for Mellie's mix soon, thanks for the good wishes for my DH.

[ktani]

firebird

You are most welcome.

I had no idea what eleuthero was - a new name for Siberian ginseng - fancy that! - as if there wasn't enough confusion sometimes with plant names, lol.
See "Uses"
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...uthero,00.html

Tilia flowers are linden flowers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilia

I have used linden flower tea on my hair - it was darker than light blonde like catnip - I used way too much of it - it built-up - that is another story - it has mucilage in it - different plants have differents amount of it - most plants contain some.

Soy lecithin can have an effect too.

Natural lemon was no help in a honey lightening recipe - that is for sure.

There are too many ingredients to pinpoint just one as a cause of your results - bottom line - you hair did not feel good afterward, with this tea blend in the recipe.

Individually, certain herbs no doubt will react differently on your hair.

[firebird]

ktani, thank you! I just did a rinse with the tea and left it on, and my hair feels really soft with no problems. Maybe it was honey/oil residue like you thought. I really just used the tea as an experiment, since I hadn't been able to get the other ingredients and was looking for something to dilute the honey with. Even though I had this problem with my latest honey treatment, 2 days later it feels fine and I've never had an long-lasting ill-effects from experimenting. It is actually in better condition than before I started honey treatments.

[ktani]

firebird

Thank you for the current details.

I am so glad that your hair is once again soft.

Excellent news that the tea worked nicely as a rinse.

That tea though does contain natural lemon - not a good idea for a honey lightening recipe - the Vitamin C content - even if it is a small amount.

I am especially pleased for you that your hair is in such good condition since starting honey lightening and that you think that it is in even better condition, than before honey lightening.

[ktani]

The Vitamin C content of selected ingredients, as well as the mineral and protein content.

Aloe vera gel, about 350 mg per 8 oz or 240 ml or 1 cup (which is about 3 x the Vitamin C content of raw lemom juice)

Black Pepper, 1.3 mg in 1 tbsp or 6 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c203E.html

Cardamom, ground, 1.2 mg - in 1 tbsp or 6 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c202q.html

Chamomile tea, brewed, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c212q.html

Cinnamon, ground (cassia), .3 mg in 1tbsp or 8 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c202u.html

Coconut cream, canned sweetened, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oC.html

Coconut cream, raw, 6.7 mg in 1 cup or 240 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oB.html

Coconut meat, dried, creamed, 0.4 mg or in 1 ounce or 28 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oo.html

Coconut milk, canned, 2.3 mg in 1 cup or 226 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oE.html

Coconut milk, raw, 6.7 mg in 1 cup or 240 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oD.html

Coconut oil - 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c208C.html

Extra virgin olive oil, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.edenfoods.com/store/nlea....ucts_id=104340

Lemon juice, canned or bottled, 60.5 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VH.html

Lemon juice, frozen unsweetened, single strength, 76.9 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VI.html

Lemon juice, raw, 112 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VG.html

Nutmeg, ground, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c2039.html

Orange juice, canned, unsweetened, 85.7 mg in 1 cup or 249 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vo.html

Orange juice, chilled, includes from concentrate, 81.9 mg in 1 cup or 249 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vp.html

Orange juice, frozen concentrate, unsweetened, diluted with 3 volume water, 96.9 mg in 1 cup or 249 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vr.html

Orange juice, frozen concentrate, unsweetened, undiluted, 393 mg in 1 cup or 284 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vq.html

Orange juice, raw, 124 mg in 1 cup or 248 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vn.html

Tomato juice, canned with salt added, 44.5 mg in 1 cup or 243 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20hM.html

Tomato juice, canned without salt added, 44.5 mg in 1 cup or 243 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20li.html

Tomato paste, with salt added, 28.7 mg in 1/2 cup or 131 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20lj.html

Tomato paste, without salt added, 57.4 mg in 1 cup or 262 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20hN.html

Tomato sauce, canned, 17.2 mg in 1 cup or 245 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20hQ.html

Tomatoes, canned, crushed, 2.6 mg in 1 ounce or 28 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20ik.html

Turmeric, ground, 1.7 mg in 1 tbsp or 7 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c203Q.html

Nutrition facts per serving - Vitamin C content - these are American statistics - these numbers may help explain certain results apart from the natural peroxide level of the honey used in a lightening recipe.

Minerals can decompose hydrogen peroxide - in the links from Nutrition Facts, you will also find the mineral content for each item. The primary metals that can affect peroxide are iron, manganese, copper, nickel and chromium.

[lynnala]

Hi all, sorry I've been absent from the honey/darkening discussion, I've had some family issues to resolve, and now I have a heck of a cold! I've been PM'ing with ktani about doing some hairball color tests, which I haven't gotten around to doing yet. But, here's a new angle: because of time constraints, I haven't used any rinse at all the last couple of washes, and my hair is still getting darker! I wash with a CV Babassu Olive bar (ingredients: saponified oils of olive, babassu, unrefined shea butter, and castor bean; and vitamin E oil) only, nothing else, no conditioner, no rinse. The mysterious thing is, my hair seems to be darkening from the roots too, which are over a month virgin from cassia treatment. It's really weird. I'm now wondering if it has something to do with menopause? Can white hair actually get darker from hormone changes?