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Thread: The Official NW/SO Thread

  1. #721
    Member SeppV's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    I'm wondering about SO and hair loss, what do you all think about that? That's what got me away from WO in the first place. Scary stories of hair loss. At the moment I am using sulfate shampoo and all, as my scalp has not seemed to like anything less. Not even milder sulfates. I need full on SLS and SLES. Just curious about scalp health and SO. I'm not here to tell you it's bad, I am genuinely curious, as one who has struggled with an angry scalp for years.

  2. #722

    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Happymaman View Post
    Emissary, some more anecdotal data for us. I took a tally of the first 50 pages of the archived thread. I tried to take people off if they eventually said SO wasn't working for them and they were out, but I may have missed some. I tried to only count individual users once. I counted responses twice if the person's user stats said they were between types (2c/3a would count as one for type 2 and one for type 3). This was the tally:

    Type 1: 39
    Type 2: 38
    Type 3: 16
    Type 4: 1

    F: 55
    M: 64
    C: 10

    i: 15
    ii: 68
    iii: 35

    I'd say the most common SOer is somewhere around 1c/2a/F/M/ii/iii, with the most common being 2a/M/ii/iii, but I think that there were WAY more F and particularly i respondents than I feel I've seen in other threads (could be confirmation bias at play, however), hence my initial impression of "Wow, this might actually work for my hair longterm." Granted, I think this site leans heavily European ancestry, but even so, I think this method works particularly well for the straight and wavy crowd, and seems to be a method that can prevent the damage of water and product on fine, thin hair like mine.
    This is amazing! and hilarious, because I am in this demographic and intrigued by this method too. Nice statistics!

  3. #723
    Member Happymaman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SeppV View Post
    I'm wondering about SO and hair loss, what do you all think about that? That's what got me away from WO in the first place. Scary stories of hair loss. At the moment I am using sulfate shampoo and all, as my scalp has not seemed to like anything less. Not even milder sulfates. I need full on SLS and SLES. Just curious about scalp health and SO. I'm not here to tell you it's bad, I am genuinely curious, as one who has struggled with an angry scalp for years.
    I'm not sure exactly how to answer this question except rhetorically. It would not make sense to me that the haircare we humans have had at our disposal for thousands of years (our own sebum, and occasional fresh water) would do anything to our bodies to create excess hair loss or poor scalp health. It does make sense to me that, coming from the modern haircare into this type of haircare, there would be a transition period, which may be rocky and seem to disrupt the previous balance. Sulfates may work better for your lifestyle and aesthetics, but I question why SO/WO just wouldn't work at all for the health of your head. What gives you that impression?

    Arcticfoxes, welcome! It is super intriguing.

    Also care for household: DH: 1c/C/iii, CBL; S: long-haired XL dog (6in winter coat!);
    H: 1c/M/ii, pixie; A: 4c/F/i pixie 3 months loc'd with 250 micro (interlocking); P: 1b/F/ii BSL

  4. #724

    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Thankyou i am very intrigued by SO, though i do wonder if I'd need to have longer hair first to spread the sebum thinner so it isn't as greasy. wonder if anyone here has experience with that.

  5. #725
    Member SeppV's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Happymaman View Post
    I'm not sure exactly how to answer this question except rhetorically. It would not make sense to me that the haircare we humans have had at our disposal for thousands of years (our own sebum, and occasional fresh water) would do anything to our bodies to create excess hair loss or poor scalp health. It does make sense to me that, coming from the modern haircare into this type of haircare, there would be a transition period, which may be rocky and seem to disrupt the previous balance. Sulfates may work better for your lifestyle and aesthetics, but I question why SO/WO just wouldn't work at all for the health of your head. What gives you that impression?

    Arcticfoxes, welcome! It is super intriguing.
    To answer your question, I would love quitting sulfates (and even shampoo!) if I could, but I really need the "medication" in the shampoo I am using to keep my scalp from flaring up. I have eczema, even inside my ears, where I don't use any kind of products. What is interesting though is that vinegar helped cure my ear canal eczema, perhaps vinegar on my scalp would be an idea... but that's not for this thread. To get to the point, when my hair starts getting greasy (which is a few days without washing, I don't have oily skin, I have dry skin) my scalp starts getting painful. Not just itchy, but kind of... sore, if that makes sense? But perhaps this is all due to never going long enough without anything?
    I think it would be interesting to experiment with no water for perhaps a month or so, just to see what happens. But I am scared about the whole hair loss thing. It's not something I've made up, but I've read it both on medical sites and other science based articles. I even read somewhere that it's bad for your scalp to go even a week without shampoo, but that sounds fishy to me! It's something completely modern to be washing your hair several times a week. My scalp isn't happy though, so I would like to do something to "fix" it, if possible. It's always water that makes my ears act up.

    I thought SO was unatural because you NEVER touched your hair with water, literally. Perphaps I have misunderstood the whole thing? Do you let water touch your scalp, just very rarely...? Because I imagine people have used some sort of water on their scalp throughout history. Sorry for taking up space asking. Perhaps I should just google, but I like hearing people's experiences more. Also, if someone in here has experience with SO and eczema, please do share :-)

  6. #726

    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SeppV View Post
    To answer your question, I would love quitting sulfates (and even shampoo!) if I could, but I really need the "medication" in the shampoo I am using to keep my scalp from flaring up. I have eczema, even inside my ears, where I don't use any kind of products. What is interesting though is that vinegar helped cure my ear canal eczema, perhaps vinegar on my scalp would be an idea... but that's not for this thread. To get to the point, when my hair starts getting greasy (which is a few days without washing, I don't have oily skin, I have dry skin) my scalp starts getting painful. Not just itchy, but kind of... sore, if that makes sense? But perhaps this is all due to never going long enough without anything?
    I think it would be interesting to experiment with no water for perhaps a month or so, just to see what happens. But I am scared about the whole hair loss thing. It's not something I've made up, but I've read it both on medical sites and other science based articles. I even read somewhere that it's bad for your scalp to go even a week without shampoo, but that sounds fishy to me! It's something completely modern to be washing your hair several times a week. My scalp isn't happy though, so I would like to do something to "fix" it, if possible. It's always water that makes my ears act up.

    I thought SO was unatural because you NEVER touched your hair with water, literally. Perphaps I have misunderstood the whole thing? Do you let water touch your scalp, just very rarely...? Because I imagine people have used some sort of water on their scalp throughout history. Sorry for taking up space asking. Perhaps I should just google, but I like hearing people's experiences more. Also, if someone in here has experience with SO and eczema, please do share :-)
    Hi, my impression was that SO says you dont specifically wash your hair with water, but much like in nature when it rains or if you go for a swim, it can get wet. Just not specifically washing it on purpose.

    I think the difference with SO and just not washing your hair at all is the scritch and preening. There is still hair and scalp maintenance going on in SO, whereas say someone who is depressed and neglecting their hair completely may be bad for the scalp as there is no maintenance at all and hair loss occurs.

    That said i think we just have to experiment for ourselves, everyone is too different to give a rule. sounds like you could benefit from ACV rinses if vinegar helped in your ears in the past! would be interesting to hear about that.

    sorry i dont have any experience, just thoughts.

  7. #727
    Member Happymaman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Ah, SeppV, I see where you're coming from. Although I've been WO for about 8 years and have just starting SO, I have never convinced my husband to switch from regular castille soap wash and condition because of his eczema, which does include his scalp and rough plaques behind his ears. He has been unwilling to try it at all, so I can definitely understand the hesitancy and think some skepticism is absolutely natural if you have preexisting scalp or hair issues that have been problematic over time. I definitely would still encourage you to give it a good try. You might find that the SMP method helps your scalp health over the course of some months. If I were in your shoes, I would be curious enough to give it a good go of about 6 months to see the effects (as I myself am currently doing, albeit without serious scalp issues), but I can't say whether you in your body feel the same about the idea of giving the old college try. And maybe vinegar rinses every month or so would be a part of what that care would look like in your case.

    It seems from reading through this thread and the previous archives that what Arcticfoxes says about NW/SO is true for most people. Some are more picky about the circumstances under which their head might get wet, but for most it seems like wetness happens (getting caught in the rain, going for a swim, or more ritualistic bathing practices such as only getting your hair wet once a season on the solstices/equinoxes, for example). The distinction being that most people using this method don't actively or often use water (or products that would necessitate using water) to try to cleanse their hair, at least not often and not to the extent that it would set them back months or years by stripping all sebum from their hair.

    And absolutely Arcticfoxes, the distinction between the neglect one might associate with severe depression or a blatant disregard for hygiene and the process of scritching and preening is super important. It seems from looking through what everyone has to say in these threads that no one can 'get away with' not doing SMP for more than a couple days at a time, even if their SMP care is pretty quick and easy beyond the first year or two.

    Hope that might help. I'm still just learning about this, too.

    Also care for household: DH: 1c/C/iii, CBL; S: long-haired XL dog (6in winter coat!);
    H: 1c/M/ii, pixie; A: 4c/F/i pixie 3 months loc'd with 250 micro (interlocking); P: 1b/F/ii BSL

  8. #728

    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Abacus View Post
    SO for me means doing the detangling and cleansing while dry and letting the sebum on my hair exist as much as I can, and just giving it a quick douse when I want to wear my hair out.
    You gotta figure it out for YOU. I am curious about this, though: do you scritch and massage your scalp? I'm asking because that might increase the amount of sebum available to use while you're detangling/preening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happymaman View Post
    May I ask what the particulars are for you? What do you notice re: your sebum?
    Sure! My scalp produces noticeably more sebum a day or so after eating fast food. It's very oily. I'm not tuned in enough to know how/if the odor changes in correlation with that; it has for some people. My hair feels heavier, lankier, and I better not skimp on SMPing. I eat a decent amount of clean/whole foods, but I also still eat some bread, breakfast sausage (although a good one with basic, simple ingredients), and the occasional burger or pizza. Ha - we got some frozen pork egg rolls in a food box recently and I've been eating at least one a day with lunch. My hair will probably reflect that.

  9. #729
    Member thatsideoflife's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emissary2ornj View Post
    Sure! My scalp produces noticeably more sebum a day or so after eating fast food. It's very oily. I'm not tuned in enough to know how/if the odor changes in correlation with that; it has for some people. My hair feels heavier, lankier, and I better not skimp on SMPing. I eat a decent amount of clean/whole foods, but I also still eat some bread, breakfast sausage (although a good one with basic, simple ingredients), and the occasional burger or pizza. Ha - we got some frozen pork egg rolls in a food box recently and I've been eating at least one a day with lunch. My hair will probably reflect that.
    Wow, yes, it's amazing what signs our bodies give us that we completely ignore! I just realized with my 8 month old that my armpits were giving off the smell of placenta to comfort him, not just super stinky! If I had known earlier, I wouldn't have been so self-conscious about it. And now there is sebum smell to consider! What does extra thick and gunky sebum mean?

  10. #730
    Member Abacus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official NW/SO Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emissary2ornj View Post
    You gotta figure it out for YOU. I am curious about this, though: do you scritch and massage your scalp? I'm asking because that might increase the amount of sebum available to use while you're detangling/preening.
    Yeah I do scritch and massage! I do that when I have my detangling sessions/ all the time throughout the day. My scalp doesn't produce much sebum on it's own, and I take oil supplements to help it. Do others here find that massaging really helps in sebum production? I don't know that it really has for me, but it does feel good!
    twa -- shoulder -- collarbone -- ARMPIT -- mid back -- waist -- hip -- tailbone -- classic -- mid thigh -- knee

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