List of Products Containing Ceramides and/or 18-MEA

**Firefox7275** · February 21st, 2014, 01:56 PM

Loads of new entries, almost done all the checking I can. It's notable how similar many of the high and low end L'Oreal conditioners are, compare before purchasing.

**Wildcat Diva** · February 21st, 2014, 09:08 PM

I started comparing the loreal products in the store on Thursday and got too overwhelmed.

**Firefox7275** · February 22nd, 2014, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Wildcat Diva

I started comparing the loreal products in the store on Thursday and got too overwhelmed.

They really are incredibly similar from high end to low end. There seems to be two or three 'base' conditioners, one which has palm oil and cetyl alcohol (a fatty not drying alcohol) high up the list, and one which has hydroxypropyl starch phosphate and quaternium 87 high up. The former is similar to the old Triple Nutrition if you rated that, the latter is lighter unless a lot of waxes or oils are added.

Other key differences are presence of glycerin (potent humectant, water attracting, may be a problem in very low dews), and cetyl esters (rich and waxy, may build up if leaving in and co-washing). Also how high they are in the ingredients list. You may or may not have an issue with either of these.

Most of the proteins are the same modified form of hydrolysed wheat protein which is highly substantive (very 'sticky') - 'hydroxypropyltrimonium'. By far the most common silicone is amodimethicone which resists building up, it is frequently found with the wheat protein and/ or ceramides so I suspect a common 'base'.

HTH, let me know if I can clarify anything better. I know formulation is a 'foreign language' to most people.

**meteor** · February 22nd, 2014, 01:37 PM

You are so right, the ingredients do look really similar, so I'm a bit confused why different L'Oreal Professionnel products work so radically differently for me. For example, Absolut Repair works nicely, but Lumino Contrast is drying and stripping.
Sometimes, ingredients look almost identical but work differently - it makes shopping for hair products so complicated.

Are there any guidelines to follow? E.g. something like hydrolysed proteins in top 7, oils in top 10, cones below top 10 won't build up, nothing below perfume is of any added value, etc?

**Firefox7275** · February 22nd, 2014, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by meteor

You are so right, the ingredients do look really similar, so I'm a bit confused why different L'Oreal Professionnel products work so radically differently for me. For example, Absolut Repair works nicely, but Lumino Contrast is drying and stripping.
Sometimes, ingredients look almost identical but work differently - it makes shopping for hair products so complicated.

Are there any guidelines to follow? E.g. something like hydrolysed proteins in top 7, oils in top 10, cones below top 10 won't build up, nothing below perfume is of any added value, etc?

pH is relevant, sometimes I'm sure the seemingly minor differences in ingredients is key. Cheaper products may have more water so we need more product/ longer treatment time. Those small differences can sometimes help you understand your hair. I can use waxy cetyl esters in a leave in if they are low down the ingredients.

What is the difference between the Absolu Repair and Lumino Contrast? Often colour care products have chelators to stop deposits dulling the dye job. I never found a shampoo that was specialist for dyed red hair that wasn't incredibly stripping.

ETA I just found an ingredients list for Lumino Contrast mask with magnesium sulphate: that is Epsom salts which are often used for curl boosting much like those sea salt sprays. They are hygroscopic so can be drying to hair and possibly damaging if overused. Possible culprit? Also difference in placing of glycerin and presence of waxy occlusives - Absolut Repair mask has two waxes above glycerin. Only looked at the mask because that line is a PITA to find ingredients for.

I probably have a list of criteria in my subconscious that dictate my gut instincts but I'm not sure I could list most of them!! It varies depending how many ingredients there are, some are loaded with plant extracts that act as a smoke screen.

Supposedly the top five ingredients are the main body of the product so I do focus on that first: if ingredients that are often low down/ not major emollients (eg fatty alcohols, cationic surfactants) make an appearance I take note. I'm thinking of butters (could be heavy/ build up/ useless for co-washing), glycerin (potent humectant, usually at 2-5%, can be a problem in very low and very high dews) or hydrolysed proteins say (minor especially if modified, could build up if used as a leave in).

I absolutely look where the fragrances and preservatives are, as you say - those again are minor, so if expensive oils or aloe vera are lower down they are just there for 'show'. Triple Nutrition was an example, palm oil was around third so highly relevant, the five other pricier oils advertised on the bottle were way down.

Ingredients like ceramides may well be useful in very tiny amounts: L'Oreal's version is their own so of course there is a lack of unbiased research to refer to. That is part of why I try to use a range of actives on my colour damaged hair: basics like hydrolysed protein and panthen as well as experimenting with 18-MEA and ceramides. Since I am also using amodimethicone after three years silicone free its tough to be sure what the beneficial ingredient is.

Reading ingredients gets you so far, trial and error is the rest. I think of haircare as a mix of science and witchcraft!

**Wildcat Diva** · February 22nd, 2014, 07:29 PM

Thanks for your help Firefox. I already have this one on hand, seems to work well:
Garnier Fructis Fall Fight conditioner (ceramides, protein free, silicone free)

I was also looking into choosing also to try the L'Oreal Everstrong Anti-Breakage product, because it is one of a few that have the 18-MEA. I think that's the ingredient I'd need more to address sun damage (am I correct?), which is my main concern. My ends are not too bad, the last few inches only have some old flat-iron damage plus sun damage I am sure. I'll be cutting that off over the next few years, but I'm not in any hurry. I'll use those ends (which are not horrible) to make better updos to keep my hair protected to be able to grow my hair longer and healthier than if I wore it down all the time.

Glycerin, it's touch and go on that. I used to use that a lot, but I'm not so sure about it anymore, as I live in a very hot and humid environment. (I'm right on the Gulf of Mexico Texas Coast)

I'm sure I'll always have a bit of sun damage. Very bright sunlight overhead for much of the year plus a fairly active lifestyle means that if I'm not perfect in head covering, I'll have some sun lightening of the ends. I do make an effort, but I'm not always able to cover up.

ETA: Is there a thought on how best to use these conditioners with these ingredients? Like should I be looking at it as a leave in so that it stays on my hair as opposed to washing out? I CO with the fall fight and cheaper Suave or VO5 as well. I have been using Kinky Curly Knot Today as a leave in...

**Wildcat Diva** · February 22nd, 2014, 07:30 PM

double post

ETA: Interesting. I was looking at dew point, which is related to relative humidity, but is not the same thing.

Where I live, yearly average temperature is 69.5 F, and 80.4% humidity (Brazoria County, TX) (summers are brutally hot)
http://www.usa.com/brazoria-county-tx-weather.htm

Dew point temp is on average 63.21 F
according to this:

http://www.decatur.de/javascript/dew/

I'm not a scientist, so maybe I'm not understanding this correctly.

**Firefox7275** · February 23rd, 2014, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Wildcat Diva

Thanks for your help Firefox. I already have this one on hand, seems to work well:
Garnier Fructis Fall Fight conditioner (ceramides, protein free, silicone free)

I was also looking into choosing also to try the L'Oreal Everstrong Anti-Breakage product, because it is one of a few that have the 18-MEA. I think that's the ingredient I'd need more to address sun damage (am I correct?), which is my main concern. My ends are not too bad, the last few inches only have some old flat-iron damage plus sun damage I am sure. I'll be cutting that off over the next few years, but I'm not in any hurry. I'll use those ends (which are not horrible) to make better updos to keep my hair protected to be able to grow my hair longer and healthier than if I wore it down all the time.

Glycerin, it's touch and go on that. I used to use that a lot, but I'm not so sure about it anymore, as I live in a very hot and humid environment. (I'm right on the Gulf of Mexico Texas Coast)

I'm sure I'll always have a bit of sun damage. Very bright sunlight overhead for much of the year plus a fairly active lifestyle means that if I'm not perfect in head covering, I'll have some sun lightening of the ends. I do make an effort, but I'm not always able to cover up.

ETA: Is there a thought on how best to use these conditioners with these ingredients? Like should I be looking at it as a leave in so that it stays on my hair as opposed to washing out? I CO with the fall fight and cheaper Suave or VO5 as well. I have been using Kinky Curly Knot Today as a leave in...

Ceramides and 18-MEA are both lipids (fats), L'Oreal ceramides are supposed to be bioidentical (same as human) whereas the 18-MEA is quaternised (modified to be substantive/ able to attracted to the cuticle).

Ceramides have been tested in wash out product and they 'stuck' to damaged/ chemical treated hair but were washed away from healthy/ virgin hair. JC on the Natural Haven blog thinks leave in is the best bet and I agree: being small molecule lipids they should slowly diffuse into a damaged cuticle.

The 18-MEA should achieve maximal bonding in longer conditionings, but I don't see any reason not to use it in a leave in product as an alternative. You do then need to consider other ingredients and your cleansing method. A product loaded with say silicones may compete for binding sites, loaded with waxes may just build up and weigh down the hair.

Yes 18-MEA for UV damage, bleach damage and older ends on long hair even if virgin. Once the water resistant 18-MEA rich f-layer is gone the cuticle slowly begins to erode ('weathering' or daily damage). Thus ceramides and hydrolysed protein may also be of use for consolidating and strengthening the cuticle.

I'm trying various products as leave ins, so will post comments at a later date if that is helpful?

**meteor** · February 23rd, 2014, 02:19 PM

Thank you so very much, Firefox!

Your informative reply is a lot more comprehensive and helpful than I could ever hope for!

Just wanted to add that this is a great thread and should be stickied for all those who would like to understand lists of ingredients better.

**meteor** · February 23rd, 2014, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Wildcat Diva

I was also looking into choosing also to try the L'Oreal Everstrong Anti-Breakage product, because it is one of a few that have the 18-MEA. I think that's the ingredient I'd need more to address sun damage (am I correct?), which is my main concern. My ends are not too bad, the last few inches only have some old flat-iron damage plus sun damage I am sure. I'll be cutting that off over the next few years, but I'm not in any hurry. I'll use those ends (which are not horrible) to make better updos to keep my hair protected to be able to grow my hair longer and healthier than if I wore it down all the time.

Glycerin, it's touch and go on that. I used to use that a lot, but I'm not so sure about it anymore, as I live in a very hot and humid environment. (I'm right on the Gulf of Mexico Texas Coast)

I know Firefox gave you excellent information on ceramides and 18-MEA.
I just wanted to add: how is your hair doing with a bit of hydrolyzed protein? The reason I'm asking is that you mention flat-iron and sunbleach damage, and hydrolyzed proteins definitely help temporarily patch-repair, add some structural resilience, as well as hold on to more water. And they work as mild humectants, since you were thinking of ditching glycerin, which is a more powerful humectant. Amino acids in formulations might help, too, but they wash out too easily with water as they are so small.
I like a bit of protein in shampoo (adds volume, helps hold onto water) and leave-ins (since hydrolyzed proteins wash out with water easily).
The best protein conditioner I've ever tried is probably Mega-Tek with proteins as the first ingredient after water, and it made my hair feel really full, thick and strong. Ingredients: Deionized water, hydrolyzed keratin protein, stearalkonium chloride, glyceryl stearate, peg 100 stearate, marine protein, peg 40, panthenal, dimethicone copolyol, magnesium citrate, allantoin, amino acids, methylparaben, mucopoly-saccharides, propylparaben, imidazolidinyl urea, fragrance.