Sulfate free/mild shampoo with silicones?

[lapushka]

I remember reading that sodium c14-16 olefin sulfonate, or anionic non sulfate surfectants in general, are comparable to sles in terms of harshness.

Do you remember where, because I was under the impression that is much milder.

[stardust lady]

I'm sure there's not a huge difference in harshness between them all, but I've seen folks at Chemist Corner talk about SLES being slightly milder (https://chemistscorner.com/cosmetics...fin-sulfonate/). And certainly it's milder than SLS. I can't even look at an SLS shampoo without my scalp burning. Here, under "Anionic Surfactants", they state that SLS is suited more for oily scalp, and SLES better for normal to dry.

And another cosmetic chemist opinion on the matter (Scroll down to "Lower cost cleansers that are more likely to irritate") - they said, of Alpha Olefin Sulfonates, "One of the most commonly used surfactants in the world (not just in shampoos) because they’re low priced, high foaming, all purpose surfactants. In terms of mildness they about the same as the ether sulfates."

And lastly here is one disagreeing with what I originally said, stating that "Sulfonic acid surfactants are generally more mild than sulfates. They include Taurates (derived from taurine), Isethionates (derived from isethionic acid), Olefin sulfonates, and Sulfosuccinates. The reason they are not used more often is that they are more expensive to produce and do not provide a significant enough benefit over Sulfates."

Lot of different opinions, even from the people that make the shampoos. I think they're all probably capable of being equally irritating depending on the formula. I've been interested in trying the Aveeno shampoos with colloidal oatmeal to see if that does anything for me. The As I Am shampoo is still the best I've tried, and the Garnier SLES one I'm using now is marketed for "dry scalp" and I did end up getting a bit of irritation from it, but not horrible.


Also I just want to complain a little bit that I feel like I'm having to get a dang degree in chemistry just to figure out how to have a happy scalp. Lol. Not that I truly understand any of this with any depth, but it's not for a lack of trying... :P

[Finda]

Do you remember where, because I was under the impression that is much milder.

Sciencemeetscosmetics over on instagram I think. She is a chemist.

[stardust lady]

I follow her as well. Here you go Lapushka: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLHeZW2n...on_share_sheet

[stardust lady]

Just a little shampoo update: having success with Dove DermaCare Scalp Dryness & Itch Relief Anti-Dandruff Shampoo. After conditioning I do a final rinse with very diluted ACV, and I think it makes scalp happier after high pH hard water from shower. The clear Garnier shampoo ("Pure Moisture") was a BIG no. The creamy dandruff shampoos seem to work well - I'm guessing H&S has similar formula. And the price is good!

[lapushka]

Just a little shampoo update: having success with Dove DermaCare Scalp Dryness & Itch Relief Anti-Dandruff Shampoo. After conditioning I do a final rinse with very diluted ACV, and I think it makes scalp happier after high pH hard water from shower. The clear Garnier shampoo ("Pure Moisture") was a BIG no. The creamy dandruff shampoos seem to work well - I'm guessing H&S has similar formula. And the price is good!

I hear a lot of good reviews about the Dove one. Of course it appears that zinc pyrithione has been banned in the EU. I still have anti-dandruff shampoo containing it (major stash), but I really need to check out the drugstore on this... right now.

[stardust lady]

I hear a lot of good reviews about the Dove one. Of course it appears that zinc pyrithione has been banned in the EU. I still have anti-dandruff shampoo containing it (major stash), but I really need to check out the drugstore on this... right now.

That's strange. It was safe up to 1% as a rinse off... and in rat studies no reproductive toxicity observed from topical applications up to max concentrations allowed. Weird that they'd suddenly ban it. I wonder if new evidence?

Looks like H&S in EU is using Piroctone Olamine now.

"In a controlled clinical trial, the results showed that Piroctone Olamine is superior to ketoconazole and zinc pyrithione, and Piroctone Olamine can reduce oil secretion. Piroctone Olamine is the only anti-dandruff and antipruritic agent in the world that can be used as a Wash-Free product." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tic...one-in-shampoo (warning: not sure about the reliability of this source)

Study comparing these ingredients: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21272039/

As someone who is having some reproductive-related issues, my ears did perk up regarding the EU ban, though I would like to see some updated evidence to justify the ban if anyone can find it.

Anyways, I've tried other zinc purithione shampoos that didn't work for me, so I think it's the addition of the conditioners and probably combination of surfactants that make this Dove shampoo non-irritating. I'd be interested in trying similar formulation with Piroctone Olamine.