Possible way to protect hair from conventional peroxide damage

[Nat242]

Thanks for this info, Ktani, and for those who have tested and reported their results

I've been trying to lighten for months using honey/cinnamon/cardamon, without much effect. I'm contemplating lightening my hair with 10vol prior to a henna treatment. If I take the plunge I'll definitely apply coconut oil for a few hours first, and I'll report my results.

[ktani]

Thanks for this info, Ktani, and for those who have tested and reported their results

I've been trying to lighten for months using honey/cinnamon/cardamon, without much effect. I'm contemplating lightening my hair with 10vol prior to a henna treatment. If I take the plunge I'll definitely apply coconut oil for a few hours first, and I'll report my results.

You are most welcome! Please do report. It helps others. Honey lightening on hennaed hair can be tricky. Finding a good peroxide producing honey can be a challenge.

The honeys I recommend with the best records are Jarrah honey, and fireweed honey. You have access to Jarrah honey. Have you tried it?

[ktani]

Coconut and argan oils, club soda, swimming and hair

My niece does a lot of swimming in pools as a lifeguard, both in swim classes and assisting swimmers. Swimming pool chemicals (chlorine) bleach hair, "The calcium hypochlorite or sodium dichloroisocyanurate used to disinfect swimming pools also bleaches hair ...." Online, applying product to hair before swimming is advised to help reduce chlorine and salt water damage to hair.

Finoriel made a valid argument againt that IMO, and I have to agree, that if the hair gets wet with any unabsorbed oil or product on it, a less than desireable swimming pool water is going to be the result.



Alternatives to the pre-treatment of hair with leave-in products, before swimming.

1. A proper swim cap, the right size, properly worn. This can be tricky because of sizes and long hair but it can be done and the hair kept dry.

2. Rinsing hair immediately after swimming, to neutralize chlorine and salt water. This one is the trickiest and the solution I found (See #'s 4 & 5), is the easiest of all the ideas I have seen.

While asorbic acid can neutralize chlorine, there is some question about the "cure" being worse than the problem. Chlorinated swimming pool water usually contains both copper and iron.

"… it appears both hydrogen peroxide and ascorbic acid are capable of forming .... free radicals in the presence of copper salts."

"Vitamin C may also act as a pro-oxidant in the presence of transitional metal ions, such as iron."

"We have previously shown that Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can trigger hydroxyl radical formation in copper contaminated household drinking water."

3. Where does that leave the problem? Fresh water to rinse the hair or a citric acid rinse. However, I am not happy with these as answers either.

".... never use vinegar or any other acid in an attempt to neutralize .... chlorine bleach. It will destroy the hypochlorite that is the active ingredient of chlorine bleach, but only by turning it into much more caustic and dangerous chemicals, including .... chlorine gas. .... amount of chlorine gas produced by a mild acid such as vinegar is small, but it won't do your fabric any good, and stronger acids can produce lethal amounts."



4. What did I find?

The safest, cheapest, easiest thing to buy and use to rinse the hair with just after swimming in a pool or salt water, that requires no mixing, guessing, or experimenting with for the best dilution, and is available pretty much everywhere, club soda.

“Club Soda ….distinguished from seltzer, sparkling water, or carbonated water by the addition of a small amount of mineral salt, such as sodium citrate, sodium bicarbonate, disodium phosphate, or similar.”

".... if you don't want to wear a cap, once you get out of the pool, rinse your hair with club soda."

"This hair care tip is from Garland Drake International, a company that manufactures hair extensions supplies .... They say that if you rinse your hair in club soda you will neutralize .... effects of chlorine and salt water on your hair."

See "Sun Savers" (click to enlarge text)

5. I suggest using club soda to rinse the hair, apply coconut and argan oils as a chelator/conditioning treatment for an hour or so, and then wash and condition the hair afterward.



Damage to the hair is going to be done in the pool or salt water, if the hair gets wet. Pre-treated hair can only stand up to so much salt water or chlorine. However, with the right after swim rinse and chelating out the mineral salts, further damage to the hair from swimming in chlorine pools or salt water, can be prevented.

This was not mentioned anywhere online but it is logical to me that if club soda removes chorine from hair, rubbing some on the skin after swimming, should remove the chorine smell that showering alone, may not.



Effect of chorine on hair

How Ultraswim removes chlorine from hair

"Salt is hygroscopic .... it absorbs water from the air. This water dissolves the salt .... the resulting salt water combines with the remaining salt, cementing the grains together into a solid mass."

".... unrefined sea salt contains many minerals that regular iodized table salt does not contain, such as magnesium, sulfate, calcium, and potassium."

[ktani]

"Fighting" the effects free radicals is the future for helping to prevent hair damage from conventional lightening chemicals but products are available to do that now too, based on other research and reports in this thread.

2009
".... scientists from Japan (the Kao Corporation’s Beauty Research Center in Tokyo) reported development of the world’s first “green” hair bleach, .... environmentally friendly preparation for lightening the color of hair. .... new hair bleach is derived from a forest soil fungus .... and could provide a natural alternative to the hydrogen peroxide. The new enzyme accomplishes the same bleaching task, but it’s gentler on the hair. .... enzyme still needs a bit of peroxide to do its job, but the quantities are far less than what is in most bleaches now. .... enzyme naturally degrades melanin. .... additional benefit of combating the effects of free radicals, produced by hydrogen peroxide, that are responsible for damaging effects in making hair brittle, dull, and difficult-to-manage. .... a consumer version of the stuff is still not available. Scientists need more tests to better understand just how the enzyme works – and make sure it’s safe. .... presented at the American Chemical Society meeting in Salt Lake City."

More details about the research can be found here.

[Heidi_234]

Again of the slightly off-topic note -
I got the long hair swim cap, so I wanted to see how well seals the hair and prevents leaking. I tried it two times already, and both times it leaked. Not as much as before, but my hair was damp with chlorine pool water, and I had to do club soda rinse and then a "CO" (I just soften my hair with conditioner, not a real CO).
The thing is - I hennaed last time April 24th, almost a month ago. I washed my hair enough times already. But these two times when I let the chlorine damp my dry hair and then soaked it with club soda to cancel the chlorine, the soda turned slightly orange - the henna bled/ came off/faded. It never did it month after hennaing before.
I asked at H4H, if regular pool swimmers who henna experience fading, they say that with the right mix (that is, acidic one) henna never fades, not even when going regularly to the pool. Last time I added lemon juice to my mix. I think my henna faded yet again (I'm going to take pictures to make sure), and I start to suspect the combination of chlorine soaking and club soda rinse have something to do with it. Or else the chlorine has something to do with it.

[ktani]

I do not think that it is the club soda but I do think it is the result of the pool chemicals.

"The calcium hypochlorite or sodium dichloroisocyanurate used to disinfect swimming pools also bleaches hair, although (contrary to popular belief) it does not turn the hair green. It bleaches the hair, allowing the green copper sulfate in the water to show in the hair. The copper sulfate comes from the reaction of the copper pipes in the plumbing to the sulfuric acid used to neutralize the alkalies in the chlorination chemicals."
http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/bleach.html

[Heidi_234]

I do not think that it is the club soda but I do think it is the result of the pool chemicals.

"The calcium hypochlorite or sodium dichloroisocyanurate used to disinfect swimming pools also bleaches hair, although (contrary to popular belief) it does not turn the hair green. It bleaches the hair, allowing the green copper sulfate in the water to show in the hair. The copper sulfate comes from the reaction of the copper pipes in the plumbing to the sulfuric acid used to neutralize the alkalies in the chlorination chemicals."
http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/bleach.html

Well, when you bleach hennaed hair, the henna doesn't become loose and wash out. Also other hennaheads did say to that they swim regularly and their color doesn't fade. I'm puzzled.

[ktani]

Well, when you bleach hennaed hair, the henna doesn't become loose and wash out. Also other hennaheads did say to that they swim regularly and their color doesn't fade. I'm puzzled.

I have read of hennaed hair "bleeding" with just conditioner not too long after being done from unbound henna being released.

Try rinsing your hair with club soda the same time after application, when not swimmiing in between or on strand tests if you have them, that you know have not been exposed to swimming pool chemicals.

Club soda is acidic and it is recommeded to remove product build-up and chlorine but I have not read of it helping to remove henna. It is recommended as a stain remover online. Henna though binds to hair so I do not know if this is the cause of your problem.

[Heidi_234]

I have read of hennaed hair "bleeding" with just conditioner not too long after being done from unbound henna being released.

Try rinsing your hair with club soda the same time after application, when not swimmiing in between or on strand tests if you have them, that you know have not been exposed to swimming pool chemicals.

Club soda is acidic and it is recommeded to remove product build-up and chlorine but I have not read of it helping to remove henna. It is recommended as a stain remover online. Henna though binds to hair so I do not know if this is the cause of your problem.

I'm not sure that I'll have a chance to wait a month without swimming and then soak my hair in club soda. But I have another experiment that could help determine if club soda assists the bleeding or not. After swimming, dip one half of hair in plain water and another one in club soda. If the tap water turns orange just like the club soda, then it's the pool to blame, not the club soda. If it doesn't, then it's the club soda (maybe with the help of the chlorine), if neither turns slightly orange then we know no more than before.
I wonder if the bleaching of the chlorine is good for me in terms of my hair color, as it lightens my hair like I wished to do, and does it on regular basis without extra effort. Or maybe it's just fades the henna (I'm going to find a camera and take pictures this weekend to make sure it fades). In any case, I'd much prefer that my swim cap wouldn't leak at all, so I won't need to worry about all this (and it will be so much healthier for my hair!). I thought of mixing Special Effects dye in my henna to boost the red, but as long as I subject my hair with constant chlorine exposure, I doubt it will be a good idea.
Anyway, I'll be back to report on the experiment as soon as.

[ktani]

I'm not sure that I'll have a chance to wait a month without swimming and then soak my hair in club soda. But I have another experiment that could help determine if club soda assists the bleeding or not. After swimming, dip one half of hair in plain water and another one in club soda. If the tap water turns orange just like the club soda, then it's the pool to blame, not the club soda. If it doesn't, then it's the club soda (maybe with the help of the chlorine), if neither turns slightly orange then we know no more than before.
I wonder if the bleaching of the chlorine is good for me in terms of my hair color, as it lightens my hair like I wished to do, and does it on regular basis without extra effort. Or maybe it's just fades the henna (I'm going to find a camera and take pictures this weekend to make sure it fades). In any case, I'd much prefer that my swim cap wouldn't leak at all, so I won't need to worry about all this (and it will be so much healthier for my hair!). I thought of mixing Special Effects dye in my henna to boost the red, but as long as I subject my hair with constant chlorine exposure, I doubt it will be a good idea.
Anyway, I'll be back to report on the experiment as soon as.

Great idea for your experiment. I never made this clear but you can rinse your hair with plain water first after swimming and then rinse with club soda. Whether that will make any difference for you, your experiment should indicate.

Regardless of hair colour, chlorine is not good for hair. It is the concentration of it in water and other factors like pH that makes the difference in terms of degrees of damage.

Effect of chorine on hair, from my Article on swimming and hair.

Another link on the subject.

The effect of chlorine on wool

More detail on chlorine and wool fiber damage

The effect of chlorine and salt water on hair