Quo vadis, LHC?

**maborosi** · February 9th, 2025, 10:28 AM

I think doing a proper backup of everything would require database access, so whoever's got access to the server right now could do it, and then it could be migrated over to a new install of the forum software. It may not be a perfect migration, but it'd be at least vBulletin to vBulletin, so that would be good!

But anyone without that access, well...I know some about archiving sites, and the best I could do probably would be to get a read-only copy of the entire (publicly viewable- so none of the login-only subforums or blogs) site- and maybe mirror it down the line so that at least we don't lose everything if the site goes down. There is some super valuable resources on here that would be awful to lose!

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I don't want to be alarmist but I do think it could be worth discussing concretely what needs to happen with the community if worst comes to worst. As I said I have some experience with this, I could probably get a replacement forum up and running- it would take some time, though, and I honestly would hate to do that if there is the possibility that the forum- in its current place, with the current domain- can be kept and maintained here. Splintering a community is awful, but worse is if a forum dies, it gets REALLY difficult to revive it if there isn't a plan in place to gather people in a new one somehow.

I think it might be a worthwhile conversation to have about what needs to happen if nobody hears anything from the admin in a certain timeframe. Resolving the SSL cert issue is really not a big deal, and it is a bit worrying that we've gone several months on an expired cert, since it's a quick and easy fix. :/

**Nightshade** · February 9th, 2025, 10:57 AM

Honestly I don't think that's alarmist at all. I could see what it would take to take a forum (even a backup one) tacked onto the stuff I already pay for?

But as you said, the real preference is to fix LHC as it stands. That just may not be possible without database access or finding someone who can contact Stephanie

**maborosi** · February 9th, 2025, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Honestly I don't think that's alarmist at all. I could see what it would take to take a forum (even a backup one) tacked onto the stuff I already pay for?

But as you said, the real preference is to fix LHC as it stands. That just may not be possible without database access or finding someone who can contact Stephanie

I think that's a really good idea!

It may also be good to look into what it would cost to host on a VPS- it doesn't look like it would be too bad with the kind of traffic the forum likely gets.
Maybe $10-15 a month- and even some of the options there may be overkill- I was erring on the side of overly cautious with bandwidth allocation. :P

I'm not sure what kind of hosting setup LHC has at the moment, whether it's shared, on a VPS, or on dedicated hardware (I doubt it because I think that's pretty expensive, but you never know!) just to get a better idea of what might be necessary for a potential replacement.

**neko_kawaii** · February 9th, 2025, 11:51 AM

I just spent some time looking through the forum admin control panel and the only backup I could find was backing up the forum settings. Keep in mind, Admins (Chromis, Gumball, and I) only have this much access, we do not have access to the server or the database.

Personally, I'm all for finding a way to backup as much as we can and recreating if necessary (looking like it might be).

**Sarahlabyrinth** · February 9th, 2025, 01:00 PM

I really hope it can be saved - or as a Plan B, recreated. I would hate to lose the LHC.

**Nightshade** · February 9th, 2025, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sarahlabyrinth

I really hope it can be saved - or as a Plan B, recreated. I would hate to lose the LHC.

Absolute worst case I'll make something new that if we can get the database we can move it over.

**maborosi** · February 9th, 2025, 01:05 PM

Thank you for chiming in, neko_kawaii. I really appreciate that. <3

I can go ahead and start archiving the forums ASAP.

The first tool basically creates an offline mirror of the forum- it preserves the structure of the boards and all of the HTML/CSS/hyperlinks, images in the posts, etc. It would be like browsing the boards normally as best as I can tell, but it will just not be searchable thru google.
*ETA: However, I can eventually implement a search functionality if I were to host the archive on a server so that people can look through it more easily. That will just take some time to do. Not a bad project by any means though. :P

If in the future we have to start a new forum from scratch, this could be enormously helpful in rebuilding some of the knowledge base.

It would take a while to create a robust archive- probably several weeks, since fast crawls would chew through a lot of bandwidth and I don't want to be a jerk. I think the site probably totals around 50GB-75GB? (Not counting anything hosted externally like images, etc) That's my best guess just based on forum statistics, but if y'all have better access to those metrics that would really help to get a better sense of the scale of this archiving.

I have several big ol' harddrives laying around that could hold a local copy of the site, no problem. Space won't be the issue. I just want to be considerate and not eat up bandwidth like a madman while trying to get things backed up. :P

The other thing to consider is that this would not scrape anything behind a login wall. If people think it's worthwhile to archive things like blogs, or the forums that are hidden from the public, then maybe people can archive individual things manually, but I'm prioritizing trying to grab anything that is public-facing, if that makes sense.

Nightblooming- I saw you replied while I was, lol!
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to start looking into what it might take to get a forum up. <3

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If we can't get database access then this will probably be the next best thing to make sure we don't lose everything. I want to try my best to make sure as much of the forum is preserved if it goes down.

**Shorty89** · February 9th, 2025, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I'm not to shy to say I was one of them, though I didn't know that there were others. My hope was that since I have to pay for web hosting and stuff anyway, Stephanie would let me take that over and my only hope would be to move LHC to a stable server, upgrade the Vbulletin software, and renew the security certificate.

It was probably about a year ago, maybe more, that I tried emailing Stephanie about it, but nothing ever came of it. I'm not sure if she didn't receive it, or if she chose not to respond.

To be honest, I don't remember who the others were.

I just remember two people a couple of years ago saying that they'd be willing to.

Originally Posted by Sarahlabyrinth

I really hope it can be saved - or as a Plan B, recreated. I would hate to lose the LHC.

I would too. It's such a great resource and a great community.

Originally Posted by maborosi

Thank you for chiming in, neko_kawaii. I really appreciate that. <3

I can go ahead and start archiving the forums ASAP.

The first tool basically creates an offline mirror of the forum- it preserves the structure of the boards and all of the HTML/CSS/hyperlinks, images in the posts, etc. It would be like browsing the boards normally as best as I can tell, but it will just not be searchable thru google.
*ETA: However, I can eventually implement a search functionality if I were to host the archive on a server so that people can look through it more easily. That will just take some time to do. Not a bad project by any means though. :P

If in the future we have to start a new forum from scratch, this could be enormously helpful in rebuilding some of the knowledge base.

It would take a while to create a robust archive- probably several weeks, since fast crawls would chew through a lot of bandwidth and I don't want to be a jerk. I think the site probably totals around 50GB-75GB? (Not counting anything hosted externally like images, etc) That's my best guess just based on forum statistics, but if y'all have better access to those metrics that would really help to get a better sense of the scale of this archiving.

I have several big ol' harddrives laying around that could hold a local copy of the site, no problem. Space won't be the issue. I just want to be considerate and not eat up bandwidth like a madman while trying to get things backed up. :P

The other thing to consider is that this would not scrape anything behind a login wall. If people think it's worthwhile to archive things like blogs, or the forums that are hidden from the public, then maybe people can archive individual things manually, but I'm prioritizing trying to grab anything that is public-facing, if that makes sense.

Nightblooming- I saw you replied while I was, lol!
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to start looking into what it might take to get a forum up. <3

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If we can't get database access then this will probably be the next best thing to make sure we don't lose everything. I want to try my best to make sure as much of the forum is preserved if it goes down.

I'm glad you're so knowledgeable about this stuff. I'm not at all.

**physicschick** · February 9th, 2025, 04:31 PM

Good news--Stephanie has offered to transfer ownership of LHC to me! She knows how special it is and wants to make sure it continues as a valuable resource and community for us.

I and the mod team appreciate everyone who has brainstormed ideas here and offered to help. We'll probably be asking some of you for help in the not too distant future. However, please be patient with me. I don't have the relevant technical skills, nor do I have a lot of time right now. (My dad is terminally ill, so I've been balancing extra family time with my other responsibilities.) We will move in a forward direction and get this stuff figured out, but it might not be the most rapid progress. We'll keep you updated as things happen.

**maborosi** · February 9th, 2025, 04:35 PM

That is awesome news! I am so glad to hear that, and I totally understand that this is going to be a process.
Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help out <3 I am so sorry to hear about your dad, please take the time you need to be with your family!