Catnip for split ends?

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Originally Posted by Kazazi

Hi Ktani,

Many thanks for your reply.

My Lush shampoo is liquid, not a bar, and whilst I think it is fairly drying, I don't think it should cause build-up. I've used it for years and never had build-up issues, and even since joining LHC in March this year and starting to experiment, I get the the best results with this shampoo as far as the frizz goes. But I do think it may have contributed to my scalp issues (which, at the moment, are thankfully gone). Here is an ingredient list:

Water (Aqua) , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate , Cocamide MEA , Propylene Glycol , Perfume , Lemon Oil (Citrus limonum) , Fresh Papaya Juice (Carica papaya) , Fine Sea Salt , Carrageenan Extract (Chondrus crispus) , Orange Oil (Citrus Aurantium dulcis) , Fresh Pineapple Juice (Ananas sativus) , Fresh Kiwi Juice (Actinidia chinensis) , Fresh Mango Juice (Mangifera indica) , *Citral , *Limonene , Benzyl Alcohol , Methylparaben , Propylparaben

For the catnip, I have tried to follow your recommended dilution. I used a level teaspoon measure to about 275 ml. Having said that, I kind of feel that a level teaspoon measure is more than taking an actual teaspoon and filling that to level - which do you use?

Regarding conditioner, I have been doing a routine where I first coat my ends with a cheap conditioner, then shampoo, repeat (I only use a tiny amount of shampoo, but twice) and during the second shampoo, I squeeze the suds down the length. After rinsing all this, I apply the catnip, then applied conditioner on top (my favourite, Lush's Veganese) a couple of minutes later (without rinsing the catnip first) and then rinsed everything a few more minutes later.

This gives me more frizz halo than using the exact same routine minus the catnip. It gives me comparable frizz to using a plain old conditioner only wash and CV poo bar wash followed by an acid rinse and conditioner gives me even more frizz.

My routine before finding LHC was WWC with Lush liquid shampoos and conditioners, mostly the I love Juicy/ Veganese combo above, and my frizz halo was never anywhere near as bad.

So something in those alternative products seems to be aggravating the frizz. I have read that oils can cause frizz, but I cannot work out how or why, or how to avoid it.

My hair is oily btw; I normally wash every other day, and I don't have any splits yet. Also rarely tangles. I am only at shoulder length though.

Any more clues or tips?

Should I try a weaker catnip solution or maybe just apply it to my ends? Although this would then not help with protecting my scalp from possible bad effects of the sulfates.

What's a good, liquid non-sulfate shampoo? Is that what you use with your catnip routine?

Thanks again,

Kaz x

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Ok, let's break this down starting with your shampoo. I put the harsher ingredients in bold. It is a very strong shampoo, IMO.

"Water (Aqua) , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate , Cocamide MEA , Propylene Glycol , Perfume , Lemon Oil (Citrus limonum) , Fresh Papaya Juice (Carica papaya) , Fine Sea Salt , Carrageenan Extract (Chondrus crispus) , Orange Oil (Citrus Aurantium dulcis) , Fresh Pineapple Juice (Ananas sativus) , Fresh Kiwi Juice (Actinidia chinensis) , Fresh Mango Juice (Mangifera indica) , *Citral , *Limonene , Benzyl Alcohol , Methylparaben , Propylparaben"

For your conditioner, I put the waxy ingredients in bold and the resin, all of which IMO, can build-up.

Lush Veganese Conditioner ingredients
"Lavender Flower Infusion (Lavendula hybrida), Rosemary Infusion (Rosmarinus officinalis), Agar Infusion (Gelidium cartilagineum), Cetearyl Alcohol, Propylene Glycol, Cetearyl Alcohol and Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Cetrimonium Bromide, Lemon Oil (Citrus limonum), Benzoin Resinoid (Styrax benzoin), Fresh Lemon Juice (Citrus limonum), *Citral, *Limonene, Perfume. "
http://usa.lush.com/cgi-bin/lushdb/0...xpand=Haircare

Basically, you are conditioning twice, once to compensate for your shampoo, which if you used a milder one, would not be necessary IMO.

From what you describe as your various routines and resulting frizz, it is definitely the conditioners that are causing the problem, IMO because of too much coating, primarily wax, first with your cheap conditioner, then with the Veganese, which also contains resin (which can also build-up).

There are a number of cheap shampoos for normal hair out there. I suggest that you look for one with sodium laureth sulfate or ammonium laureth sulfate as the first cleansers.

I would switch from the Veganese or use it more sparingly, without using a pre conditioner before you shampoo. If you like, try a light pre oiling that is easier to wash out, on your length.

For the catnip, I use a measuring spoon for 1 tsp.

Thanks Ktani, I'll have a play with reducing/changing conditioners and shampoos and shall report back once the results are in!

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Originally Posted by Kazazi

Thanks Ktani, I'll have a play with reducing/changing conditioners and shampoos and shall report back once the results are in!

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You are most welcome. Good luck.

I do not think that you have to give up the Veganese, just cut back its use, at first. It will depend on how well it washes out, between use.

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Originally Posted by Kazazi

Thanks Ktani, I'll have a play with reducing/changing conditioners and shampoos and shall report back once the results are in!

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I highly recommend Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose shampoo and conditioner. The scent is a little strong for me, but I've never had a conditioner that worked so well. Very moisturizing without causing a lot of build up, it tames my flyaway hair. The shampoo is soap-based so it's much gentler than the LUSH shampoo you are using now.

I called Aubrey about their aloe vera gel, a while back (the gel was bad, it had gone off) and asked what is the of pH their shampoos. I was told that they are pH 10, which I think is too high for a shampoo. Some conventional hair colours are pH 10. They were very nice and helpful though, and I got a complete refund for the gel at the store with no fuss. Aubrey has a great return policy, if their products are not satisfactory, as in my case.

Huh. Anything soap-based will have a higher pH, but I was under the impression that they added acid to the shampoo to bring down the pH a little. My hair feels less "roughed up" in the shower with the AO shampoo than when I was using shampoo bars. At least it does with the honeysuckle rose variety. I recently picked up the jojoba/aloe/yucca shampoo and am not as happy with it. Now I'm considering adding a little lemon juice or ACV to it...

I'm sensitive to sulphates so my scalp is much happier with soap based cleansers. Do you know of any that actually do have a lower pH?

I tried catnip for the first time this morning and I must say that I am very pleased! I had been using cones for a while, so I did a clarifying wash and then soaked my length and scalp hair in my catnip infusion (1 heaping tea spoon in 450mL water). I bunned it while doing other showerly things and kept soaking the bun and my scalp with the remaining infusion. It sat on there for about 15 minutes, then I rinsed and applied a small about of Suave conditioner and did my coconut oil leave in. My hair is now shiny, curlier than normal and my ends are quite a bit softer than they were this morning.

So, all in all a good first attempt! I'm planning on using it every wash (3x a week) so we'll see how it is in a couple of weeks!

Thanks so much for all of the info you have provided on this thread ktani!!

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Originally Posted by detritus

Huh. Anything soap-based will have a higher pH, but I was under the impression that they added acid to the shampoo to bring down the pH a little. My hair feels less "roughed up" in the shower with the AO shampoo than when I was using shampoo bars. At least it does with the honeysuckle rose variety. I recently picked up the jojoba/aloe/yucca shampoo and am not as happy with it. Now I'm considering adding a little lemon juice or ACV to it...

I'm sensitive to sulphates so my scalp is much happier with soap based cleansers. Do you know of any that actually do have a lower pH?

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I was surprsed by the Aubrey information too. As I recall, I think that their Swimmer's Shampoo has a lower pH. I do not remember what it is though.

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Originally Posted by maskedrose

I tried catnip for the first time this morning and I must say that I am very pleased! I had been using cones for a while, so I did a clarifying wash and then soaked my length and scalp hair in my catnip infusion (1 heaping tea spoon in 450mL water). I bunned it while doing other showerly things and kept soaking the bun and my scalp with the remaining infusion. It sat on there for about 15 minutes, then I rinsed and applied a small about of Suave conditioner and did my coconut oil leave in. My hair is now shiny, curlier than normal and my ends are quite a bit softer than they were this morning.

So, all in all a good first attempt! I'm planning on using it every wash (3x a week) so we'll see how it is in a couple of weeks!

Thanks so much for all of the info you have provided on this thread ktani!!

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You are most welcome.

There is more than one method and dilution to enjoy the benefits of catnip.

I am happy for you that you found one that works for you.

My hair was so oily from yesterdays catnip that I diluted my non SLS shampoo and washed my scalp only once and then my from hairline area a 2nd time since this is the area that gets the oilyist ( I think from my face)
I let the suds run down the length and thats it no catnip rinse and no conditioner and my hair was amazing. I twisted it while wet into an updo for a meeting this morning and then when I got home ( I work from home mostly) I took it down to dry it had no tangles and was so soft. When it dried it looked shiney and not oily at all. I then braided it and left it for the rest of the day. Just before bed the left tassle felt a little rough so I dipped it in the catnip ditlution left over from yesterday and it feels soft again I am now in bed with my trusty laptop. still loving catnip:)