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Question re public boards
Could someone please clarify for me what a non-member viewing the LHC can see?
For example:
Can one read Conventional Products and Accessories subforum?
Can one read the Henna and Herbal products subforum? Or just the Mane Board?
I understand that if you do not have an account here, you cannot post, nor can you read the blogs or swaps, or Friendship/Pets/Parental type subforums.
I am just a little confused as to what "the public boards" actually covers and can't seem to find it in a search.
Thank you
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Re: Question re public boards
The public forums are basically everything hair related. Products/Accessories or Henna/Herbal can be read of the whole Internet. The swap board is also considered on-topic so it is a public board and can be read without being logged in, as are informational parts like Site Happenings, Site Support or the test section.
Unregistered visitors are not able to post anywhere on the forum and they can't view the off topic areas, the meet board, blogs, albums or profiles.
I think the easiest way to see what is visible for unregistered people is to log out, but you can find an excessive list ahem more information about what which usergroups can or can not do/see in the updated version of the User Permissions and Post count.
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Re: Question re public boards
Reviving this as I'm pretty averse to creating new threads and my remark is a bit of a follow-up on OP's question.
I don't really understand or agree with the reasoning behind the Swap Board being public. I have seen people share their e-mail addresses in threads on the swap board when buying/selling as it is sometimes unpractical to discuss a purchase by PM; and when I participate in a seasonal swap I'm always a bit uncomfortable with all the personal information and photos I share being accessible to anyone that comes accross the LHC.
I feel like the Swap Board should be a member-only area of the forum, and I don't see how it's relevant to unregistered visitors coming to the forum for hair-related information. Could someone enlighten me? Might it be an idea to change this board's settings?
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Re: Question re public boards
The swap board is open? That's so odd.
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Re: Question re public boards
Yep, I double checked it from a device on which I haven't logged in and can confirm that the swap board is public, Lapushka.
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Re: Question re public boards
Hmm, maybe there's a good reason for that? IDK.
I sometimes am so surprised. I often have to watch what I say, esp. when newbies who don't have access to other parts yet start health related issues on the mane forum... and they can get intense *fast*!
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Re: Question re public boards
See, I actually like that there are some health+hair related threads on the Mane forum because for people searching for answers to specific hair problems that are health-related, it's so comforting to stumble across this kind of info and find others have gone through it - and sometimes these kinds of problems they may not even realise are related to health issues. I mean, yes there is general info out there beyond LHC about certain deficiencies or medications affecting hair, even the odd bit of info on condition-specific sites, but I really do feel that here there's a much more comprehensive wealth of knowledge and experience that goes beyond 'my hair was too thin so I had to chop' or 'I couldn't handle my hair because of my illness so I had to chop'*. If every health-related thread gets banished to the private areas, then no unregistered but struggling person is going to stumble across the kind of info that could save them unnecessary problems. (This is one reason I was so pleased to see the Disabled and Longhaired thread in the Mane forum before, though I never got round to engaging with it.)
*Edit: those are of course perfectly valid choices, but so often outside of LHC they are presented as the default, the expected course, with no knowledge or awareness that there are alternatives that could also be considered before deciding. /Edit
I agree sometimes the threads get very personal, and I understand there are things people don't want to publicly share - and that's their right. I myself use privacy settings on sites so that coworkers and pupils can't normally see what I post, and hopefully keep things anonymous enough here so that Google-savvy schoolkids can't easily find that it's me. But ultimately the rule for using the internet is to assume everything is permanent and everything is potentially public, so don't write stuff you categorically don't want other people to see. Hopefully there will never be a security breach on LHC, and I'm sure the security is robust enough that it's not likely, but we just never know what the future holds or what might happen. We trust that ordinarily it does the job and would withstand security attacks, but it's not a cast-iron guarantee that it absolutely 100% will *never ever* at any point be visible on the wider web for even a second.
Maybe a compromise once a thread starts taking too personal a turn could be to ask *the OP* if they want the thread moved, or offer a choice between moving it and starting a new one privately as a continuation - that way the info already shared publicly would still be available for non-members searching for help to see. Just a thought :shrug:
As for the swap board, I don't know ... Again I like that it's public because as an unregistered lurker I used to see whether it might be something useful for me if I were to join, and I also didn't know swap boards were a thing anyway before finding LHC - it was nice to see that I may not have to buy everything new to build a hairtoy collection! However the big swaps with personal info, yeah I get that those probably should be protected. A mini-subforum for those, maybe?
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Re: Question re public boards
Bumping this as there is a new swap running and I didn't get an answer to my question from mods in the summer.
I shared photos of my dog in this swap and tbh I'd much prefer this kind of relatively personal information/material to be in a member-only board. Can we revisit the matter of the swap board being public? See my arguments above.
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Re: Question re public boards
Wait --why is the swap board public?
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Re: Question re public boards
I agree that having the swap board public seems odd. After all, nobody is going to be able to participate in a swap without registering.
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Re: Question re public boards
The swap board has always been public. I have in the past asked if people would prefer the seasonal swaps to be in the meet up section, which is more restricted, but it was pointed out that would not have allowed some of the swappers to have participated and seemed to be a pretty unpopular opinion. I am still open to the idea personally. I feel it is a bit different than our normal buying and selling threads. We are discussing this in the modcave, but are interested to hear others chime in, especially if you actually have done one of these swaps yourself.
As to the rest of the swap board, it was explained to me when I asked in the past that we get quite a number of new members who join mostly because they would like to use the swap board and if we made that section private, we would likely find the friendship board suddenly getting a bunch of these posts from people who didn't know there was somewhere else they are supposed to use for that.
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Re: Question re public boards
I agree with swap board not being public, also. I'm not really sure if we want people joining only to be able to buy things, and I'm not sure if sellers would be comfortable doing a transaction with someone who just wandered in randomly from the internet and doesn't have an existing presence/reputation here?
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kat
I agree with swap board not being public, also. I'm not really sure if we want people joining only to be able to buy things, and I'm not sure if sellers would be comfortable doing a transaction with someone who just wandered in randomly from the internet and doesn't have an existing presence/reputation here?
That is up to the seller to decide. No one is obligated to sell to someone if they don't want to. All transactions on the swap board are at your own risk.
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Re: Question re public boards
I'm currently participating in my first swap so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I'm a bit on the fence about it. I can see why people would want to protect things like email addresses but I also think that maybe we could just use the LHC message system to send swap info. I also tend to think that people can be a bit over cautious about some data. I think there are a lot of people out there that think websites keep all of the meta data that comes with photos etc but in reality most sites scrub that information because extra data takes up space and more space costs money.
I think it would be reasonable to move the exchanges to the friendship board but I think the swaps should stay public. From what I'm reading that's not up for debate anyway. :shrug:
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chromis
That is up to the seller to decide. No one is obligated to sell to someone if they don't want to. All transactions on the swap board are at your own risk.
Right, but I would still think it would be annoying. I just don't see the harm in selling only to members. What is the reasoning for wanting to sell to the public and have them creating accounts and such?
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kat
Right, but I would still think it would be annoying. I just don't see the harm in selling only to members. What is the reasoning for wanting to sell to the public and have them creating accounts and such?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chromis
As to the rest of the swap board, it was explained to me when I asked in the past that we get quite a number of new members who join mostly because they would like to use the swap board and if we made that section private, we would likely find the friendship board suddenly getting a bunch of these posts from people who didn't know there was somewhere else they are supposed to use for that.
I think what Chromis means here is that the decision to make the swap board "public" was based on a history of "new members" posting about wanting to buy items to the Friendship Board because they didn't know that the Swap Board existed since it was invisible to them when only available to "members". Not everyone delves deep enough into the workings of LHC to come across the permissions list or read it carefully enough. We see this weekly with issues of "new members" complaining that they can't see their profile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jane_marie
I think it would be reasonable to move the exchanges to the friendship board but I think the swaps should stay public. From what I'm reading that's not up for debate anyway. :shrug:
We are quite interested in hearing what other people think!
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neko_kawaii
We are quite interested in hearing what other people think!
I know that. Please don't misunderstand. I only meant that it seems like most people are comfortable with the buy/sell being public and so that isn't likely to change.
Personally, I think it's great that people looking to start into using hair toys can turn up results for LHC. I mean, different people come here for different reasons. Some people (like me) get results for LHC while researching henna, other people probably find it because they are looking for styles and some... I assume might type "hair fork" into google. If you want to keep a community alive you need a stream of new people. So, it makes sense that buy/sell is visible... just my opinion of course. :)
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neko_kawaii
I think what Chromis means here is that the decision to make the swap board "public" was based on a history of "new members" posting about wanting to buy items to the Friendship Board because they didn't know that the Swap Board existed since it was invisible to them when only available to "members". Not everyone delves deep enough into the workings of LHC to come across the
permissions list or read it carefully enough. We see this weekly with issues of "new members" complaining that they can't see their profile.
We are quite interested in hearing what other people think!
Yes, this! Also we get inquiries and such from vendors frequently and having the swap board open allows them to actually see our vendor guidelines much more easily in the case of legit shops who then know better than to try spamming the board. (We get plenty of spam-spam to fight and I doubt any rules will change that, we do our best to keep them from slipping in, although having to manually approve new registrations is certainly a large task for us!)
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Re: Question re public boards
I participated in a few swaps (bought from people every time), and had no clue the swap board was public at the time. I had no problem, since the sellers, I think, asked to be PM'd but I'm unsure now if I did respond in the thread as well.
I am for making this private, just because... I mean, there's no point doing this public if people have to register, and to have people register just to buy something, if their post count is 0? Then there's the issue of what seller would accept that or it might even give them issues should they accept and trust too much (but that's on them, I know). Still, it's a bit odd to say the least. So for those reasons, I would love to see it private. :)
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neko_kawaii
I think what Chromis means here is that the decision to make the swap board "public" was based on a history of "new members" posting about wanting to buy items to the Friendship Board because they didn't know that the Swap Board existed since it was invisible to them when only available to "members". Not everyone delves deep enough into the workings of LHC to come across the
permissions list or read it carefully enough. We see this weekly with issues of "new members" complaining that they can't see their profile.
We are quite interested in hearing what other people think!
Yes, but why can't the new members then be told the same thing they're told when they want to see/post pictures, etc.-- "when you have X number of posts, you will have access to this feature of the site"? It's not like they never get access... they do, eventually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lapushka
I am for making this private, just because... I mean, there's no point doing this public if people have to register, and to have people register just to buy something, if their post count is 0?
That was my thinking. Anyone could register just to buy things, which will then give them access to the parts of the site we keep non-public for the very reason that we don't want just anyone seeing them.
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kat
That was my thinking. Anyone could register just to buy things, which will then give them access to the parts of the site we keep non-public for the very reason that we don't want just anyone seeing them.
They still have to have 25 decent posts to see the blogs, albums and social groups and 100+ posts over 60+days to see what is arguably the most sensitive part of the site, the community meets. And anyway, if someone buys off the swap board, how likely are they to be the kind of creeper we don't want?! If they never post they won't get access to the parts creepers want to see anyway :shrug:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jane_marie
I know that. Please don't misunderstand. I only meant that it seems like most people are comfortable with the buy/sell being public and so that isn't likely to change.
Personally, I think it's great that people looking to start into using hair toys can turn up results for LHC. I mean, different people come here for different reasons. Some people (like me) get results for LHC while researching henna, other people probably find it because they are looking for styles and some... I assume might type "hair fork" into google. If you want to keep a community alive you need a stream of new people. So, it makes sense that buy/sell is visible... just my opinion of course. :)
THANK you.
I've said it before, I totally understand that people might want the seasonal swaps to be private with all the personal info shared there. I still do not think the entire swap board needs to be.
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Re: Question re public boards
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Originally Posted by
MusicalSpoons
I've said it before, I totally understand that people might want the seasonal swaps to be private with all the personal info shared there. I still do not think the entire swap board needs to be.
Yeah, different people use forums differently and I don't know that we should... discriminate against that. Sure having the swap board open means that newer members can buy things but I really don't see what the harm is in that. People buy and sell a lot of things online these days without knowing the buyer/seller. Some people aren't comfortable posting and I think that's fine... that doesn't mean that they should be shunned from buying things.
Not that it's related but I also tend to think that humans should purchase more used items it's a small way we can decrease out impact. Having the swap board opens means increasing sustainability. In that more global sense I think it does a lot more harm than good to make the entire swap board difficult to access. These days online buying and selling is pretty safe and anonymous IMHO.
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Re: Question re public boards
There are two separate issues here and each have their own complexities.
1. The group gift swaps are in the Swap Board and are thus public. People may not be aware of that and post more personal information than they otherwise would on a more restricted part of the board.a. I don't personally see this as an issue. I don't post personally identifiable information (PII) anywhere on LHC. My device cameras are not allowed access to location data. People don't need PII to select good gifts for each other. If there is something someone is uncomfortable posting on a public board, they can instead post in their blog and link to on the swap thread.
b. People may not be aware of that and post more personal information than they otherwise would on a more restricted part of the board. I have no problem with moving the group gift swaps to the Meets Forum or looking into creating a sub-forum in the Swap Board that has higher permissions (I think that is technically possible).
2. The Swap Board is public.a. New members may discover LHC via search results that point to the Swap Board. "New members" interested in their own hair is good.
b. Most people use the LHC PM system to exchange information for payment. (I rarely post about what I'm buying on the Swap Board, that is all through PM with the seller.)
c. The Swap Board is use at your own risk. Sellers can decide not to sell to "new members" and buyers may not wish to buy from "new members" judging the risk too high to interact with someone with no reputation on the forums.
d. "New members" can't PM until they reach 25 posts and sometimes do post their email on the Swap Board in order to purchase items.
e. Mods are already overwhelmed by "why can't I access xyz" complaints via email and threads.
f. The Swap Rules need to be public so that vendors who wish to become members can see them (and not get auto banned for spam) and those are located in the Swap Board. Having the same information in multiple locations gets confusing as changes have to then be made in multiple locations and that rarely happens correctly.
g. Sellers can edit their sales posts to their hearts content (like the blogs and unlike the rest of the forum where editing is restricted to spelling/grammar and ETAs). People can and do remove the complete contents of their sales posts after the items are sold.
Some of 2.a-g supports the Swap Board remaining "public", some is against, and some could go either way.
Discuss!
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Re: Question re public boards
I think 2d is still not a problem that can only be solved by making the board private - people can choose to post their e-mail addresses in the "name [at] email . com" format, or make a new address specifically for the buying/selling, or as a last resort ask the mods to remove their address once they've made contact (not ideal, but only as a last resort and people don't *often* post their e-mail addresses anyway). Ideally a warning/reminder not to post personal e-mail addresses would be good but I don't know if that's even possible - people don't always read the stickies anyway, so unless there's some alternative techie way to trigger the warning if an e-mail address is detected or something? I don't know. It just seems one single 'against' out of a multitude of 'fors' as far as I can see, and isn't a Huge Issue as it doesn't seem to happen very often :shrug:
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Re: Question re public boards
Thanks all for taking the time to respond, I now better understand the reasoning behind the swap board being public. 2a, 2e and 2f convinced me that this is advantageous enough to outweigh the issue of e-mail addresses and buyer info potentially being accessible to the general public.
I do still think group gift swaps are a separate type of thread and deserve different privacy settings. They have rules that make them member-only, and only allow active, committed members to participate, and they contain a lot more more private information and pictures as people share details about themselves (I know this is a choice and one can restrict what one shares as much as one wants, but that sort of goes against the spirit of the activity).
Having read neko's post above, I think 1b would be a good solution to the issue I have with the group gift swaps being public. I would personally be in favour of creating a private sub-section for group gift swaps.
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neko_kawaii
b. People may not be aware of that and post more personal information than they otherwise would on a more restricted part of the board. I have no problem with moving the group gift swaps to the Meets Forum or looking into creating a sub-forum in the Swap Board that has higher permissions (I think that is technically possible).[/INDENT]
I think that is a really good idea! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neko_kawaii
e. Mods are already overwhelmed by "why can't I access xyz" complaints via email and threads.
Back when I joined... I actually can't remember if I got an e-mail or not, but would it be an idea to put something clarifying that in the welcome e-mail?
Hmmm... See... Now I'm unsure again. I still think swapping is something that's done among more established members, and often things are shared that might be more personal, so. I mean, what's the reason not to make it private. It's not like it has to be public for a reason. :shrug:
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lapushka
Hmmm... See... Now I'm unsure again. I still think swapping is something that's done among more established members, and often things are shared that might be more personal, so. I mean, what's the reason not to make it private. It's not like it has to be public for a reason. :shrug:
Like what? Nobody has to post any personal info :confused:
Edit: I also agree with 1b as a solution :)
Edit 2: I am really liking the yellow announcement box thing :cheer: I hope it resolves a lot of the questions about permissions and makes the mods' load a little lighter :D
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MusicalSpoons
Like what? Nobody has to post any personal info :confused:
Edit: I also agree with 1b as a solution :)
Edit 2: I am really liking the yellow announcement box thing :cheer: I hope it resolves a lot of the questions about permissions and makes the mods' load a little lighter :D
Oh! I’m playing around with that, but I can only see it when I’m logged out. It should appear to new members and prospective members (not logged in). Where you logged in when you saw it?
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neko_kawaii
Oh! I’m playing around with that, but I can only see it when I’m logged out. It should appear to new members and prospective members (not logged in). Where you logged in when you saw it?
I can see it when logged in. :)
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Re: Question re public boards
Yup, logged in (always :p) :)
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Re: Question re public boards
I can see it when logged in, too. :)
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Re: Question re public boards
Yeah, I can see it, too. I thought I must have been accidentally logged out but then I could post just fine.
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Re: Question re public boards
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Re: Question re public boards
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Re: Question re public boards
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Re: Question re public boards
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Re: Question re public boards
My original thought was for it to be visible to visitors and new members only, otherwise it is just more visual noise for everyone, but I'm happy to listen to suggestions if you think it is of use to members too.
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Re: Question re public boards
Well ... I don't mind it. I think it should at least be visible up to 100 posts, if that's possible? We sometimes get new members frantically posting in desperation who clearly haven't explored the forum at all, and hit 25 posts very quickly, so it would disappear while they still need it - I hope that doesn't sound too patronising; it's not meant be, only an observation.
(It's much preferable to ads, that's for sure! :rollin:)
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MusicalSpoons
Well ... I don't mind it. I think it should at least be visible up to 100 posts, if that's possible? We sometimes get new members frantically posting in desperation who clearly haven't explored the forum at all, and hit 25 posts very quickly, so it would disappear while they still need it - I hope that doesn't sound too patronising; it's not meant be, only an observation.
(It's much preferable to ads, that's for sure! :rollin:)
True. 100 could be done for sure.
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Re: Question re public boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MusicalSpoons
Like what? Nobody has to post any personal info :confused:
Sometimes things just slip out especially with transactions between people. It's almost inevitable.
I also have this when newbies post health threads in the mane forum and things like that. Often you just see the title and are "blissfully" unaware that it is on a public forum they posted. Mistakes are often faster made than you think!