Hairfall, Co wash, scalp massage, name the culprit!

[goldloli]

Sorry if I'm making too many threads atm, I'm just desperate for length.


Anyway so I did a few new things over the past few days then experienced hairfall and need likely culprit identifying.

- First was wearing hair on a protective bun for 50 % of the time. After I took down the bun I brushed so I think any loose hairs wouldn't be from this... Idk I could be wrong :o

- Second was that I managed to stretch wash to 3 days. (btw boots pink curl crem is excellent for dry ends that cant handle stretching washes)

- Third was that I gave myself a scalp massage with only scalp oils last night and another light one today prior to bathing, again I detangled after.

- Fourth is that I tried a new cwc/co wash. Wet hair, condition and work in with tresemme naturals, use everpure als shampoo on roots letting suds run down, rinse and apply more conditioner. I thought this was a perfect compromise for max hydration without scalp negatives of co.

I finger combed and everything and there was just soo much hair. I dont get it, I did everything right, my hair feels amazing yet not limp or greasy. Diet and health are fine btw. I already shed from a ii/iii to a ii this year :'(

[brave]

A few members, myself included, have noticed extra shedding from using tresemme naturals. Once I switched away from it the shedding slowed. So that may well be your culprit.

That's really good to know about the boots curl creme though, I am planning on getting some when I visit england next year :)

[Lauram]

I don't know. Maybe the co wash though.i think what's causing it for me. I don't think my scalp likes conditioner rubbed into it...

Perhaps the scalp massage dislodge some hairs that were going to fall out soon anyway? Maybe try some additional oil when massaging so your fingers glide better?

I hear your frustration, I'm in the same boat. I can brush my hair with a tt before I hop in the shower and after I co I still lose 50ish hairs. From losing 5-10 before with s&c , seems like something's off..

[renia22]

I finger combed and everything and there was just soo much hair. I dont get it, I did everything right, my hair feels amazing yet not limp or greasy. Diet and health are fine btw. I already shed from a ii/iii to a ii this year :'(

Were you able to figure out what made it go from a iii to a ii this year? My own reasons for excessive shedding aren't due to co-washing or oils per se, but oiling/ massaging my scalp/ skipping shampooing all together certainly makes things worse in my case & I've heard a lot of other people say the same thing. Perhaps you developed some sort of sensitivity to the products you are using (providing there isn't anything medical/ hormonal going on)?

[katfemme89]

I've never understood how COing can be okay because I always heard that applying conditioner or oil to your scalp can disrupt the pH balance of your scalp and cause fallout. But then again I've never been a COer so that was just my n00b two cents... can someone explain to me if it does affect the pH or not??

[goldloli]

A few members, myself included, have noticed extra shedding from using tresemme naturals. Once I switched away from it the shedding slowed. So that may well be your culprit.

That's really good to know about the boots curl creme though, I am planning on getting some when I visit england next year :)
Interesting, this was my first ever use on it, I shall try applying only on length next time.
As for the curl cream, I was disappoint at first, I much prefer something like noodle head. It doesn't give slip, nor add definition/shine to my curls. After a scan of the ingredients I realised its laden with fatty alcohols and ph balancers... perfect for rehydrating and sealing cuticles on porous, second day hair. Been using it for 2 weeks like this and it's tha bomb!


I don't know. Maybe the co wash though.i think what's causing it for me. I don't think my scalp likes conditioner rubbed into it...

Perhaps the scalp massage dislodge some hairs that were going to fall out soon anyway? Maybe try some additional oil when massaging so your fingers glide better?

I hear your frustration, I'm in the same boat. I can brush my hair with a tt before I hop in the shower and after I co I still lose 50ish hairs. From losing 5-10 before with s&c , seems like something's off..
maybe it was the rubbing idk, the co was only rubbed in for 2 mins then shampooed out, i figured this would avoid classic co hairfall.

Were you able to figure out what made it go from a iii to a ii this year? My own reasons for excessive shedding aren't due to co-washing or oils per se, but oiling/ massaging my scalp/ skipping shampooing all together certainly makes things worse in my case & I've heard a lot of other people say the same thing. Perhaps you developed some sort of sensitivity to the products you are using (providing there isn't anything medical/ hormonal going on)?

I have seasonal sheds in spring. I also found out my beloved redken allsoft dish caused some of my hairfall. also when i wash younger i had trichotilomania so a lot of my hair has the same terminal length from pulling them all out at the same times, which restarts the growth cycle.


I've never understood how COing can be okay because I always heard that applying conditioner or oil to your scalp can disrupt the pH balance of your scalp and cause fallout. But then again I've never been a COer so that was just my n00b two cents... can someone explain to me if it does affect the pH or not??

When standard shampoo and conditioner, i apply the dish right to the roots with zero problems. I dont understand why this would change with 2 applications of conditioner.

[Rufflebutt]

Some people seem to experience a lot of hairfall when they switch to CO washing or even CWC washing. I'm not sure why conditioner acts that way to some people's scalps, but it's really odd.

[Madora]

I think the shedding is due to too much stuff on your head.

See the third paragraph from the bottom about products causing shedding:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=121

You may want to look into using mineral oil to help keep your hair hydrated longer. Plus it leaves your hair soft, shiny and supple and there's no after scent. Great detangler and helps tame the frizzies.

Use it sparingly...just a few drops.

[goldloli]

Okay so it's probably the CO or the tresemme naturals.

Yes, maybe I was messing around with the ph of my scalp to much and it loosened up some hairs.

I shall skip the scalp massage, revert to every 2 day washing, and only apply the first co on the length. I might try the tresemme as the follow up conditioner too, then i can see if that is causing hairfall.

for what it's worth my ends feel softer than they have in forever. i found this cute article in soe old thread about seasonal growth http://sbrjournal.net/currentissue/articles/Hair/Hairgrowth.htm

[silverthread]

Sorry if I'm making too many threads atm, I'm just desperate for length.


Anyway so I did a few new things over the past few days then experienced hairfall and need likely culprit identifying.

- First was wearing hair on a protective bun for 50 % of the time. After I took down the bun I brushed so I think any loose hairs wouldn't be from this... Idk I could be wrong :o

- Second was that I managed to stretch wash to 3 days. (btw boots pink curl crem is excellent for dry ends that cant handle stretching washes)

- Third was that I gave myself a scalp massage with only scalp oils last night and another light one today prior to bathing, again I detangled after.

- Fourth is that I tried a new cwc/co wash. Wet hair, condition and work in with tresemme naturals, use everpure als shampoo on roots letting suds run down, rinse and apply more conditioner. I thought this was a perfect compromise for max hydration without scalp negatives of co.

I finger combed and everything and there was just soo much hair. I dont get it, I did everything right, my hair feels amazing yet not limp or greasy. Diet and health are fine btw. I already shed from a ii/iii to a ii this year :'(

Perhaps your scalp doesn't like that particular conditioner. The only conditioner I've found so far that doesn't make my hair shed like crazy is VO5 pomegranate. When I CO wash, I use Tresemme naturals only on the ends of my hair and VO5 for the scalp. I would also encourage you to keep scalp massaging as it helped my previous shedding problem greatly.

ETA: I always dilute my conditioners, usually 7 oz. of water to 1 oz. of conditioner. For leave-in, I'll dilute the VO5 by as much as to 20 to 1.

[Theobroma]

I don't know anything about the specific products you used, but I'm one of those people for whom conditioner (any kind I've ever tried) applied to the scalp causes massive, epic shedding. Scalp massage/manipulation has nothing to do with it; I can massage to my heart's content with hair soap and still shed only about 25% of what I shed with CO. Conversely, scalp oiling is also a shedding disaster for me even if I barely massage the oil in at all.

On the flip side, even when I'm using products that don't make me shed, I'll see more hair coming out in the wash if I go longer between washes. This seems to be normal. If you wash every day and shed 20 hairs, you'll shed 100 if you only wash every five days. Works out to the same number of hairs over the same period, though.

[goldloli]

Perhaps your scalp doesn't like that particular conditioner. The only conditioner I've found so far that doesn't make my hair shed like crazy is VO5 pomegranate. When I CO wash, I use Tresemme naturals only on the ends of my hair and VO5 for the scalp. I would also encourage you to keep scalp massaging as it helped my previous shedding problem greatly.

ETA: I always dilute my conditioners, usually 7 oz. of water to 1 oz. of conditioner. For leave-in, I'll dilute the VO5 by as much as to 20 to 1.


I don't know anything about the specific products you used, but I'm one of those people for whom conditioner (any kind I've ever tried) applied to the scalp causes massive, epic shedding. Scalp massage/manipulation has nothing to do with it; I can massage to my heart's content with hair soap and still shed only about 25% of what I shed with CO. Conversely, scalp oiling is also a shedding disaster for me even if I barely massage the oil in at all.

On the flip side, even when I'm using products that don't make me shed, I'll see more hair coming out in the wash if I go longer between washes. This seems to be normal. If you wash every day and shed 20 hairs, you'll shed 100 if you only wash every five days. Works out to the same number of hairs over the same period, though.

Seriously, thanks lhc. I'm pretty convinced now that either my scalp doesn't like tresemme or it doesn't like the rubbing of the products. Maybe it's the ph or the excessive motion loosening up too many hairs. Castor oil scalp massages also made my hair fall pretty bad.

I just noticed with an ingredients check to identify possible irritants, that every conditioner I've used in which hairfall occurred, contained avocado oil. It's far down on the list so I don't know how much was actually in these products but I shall be keeping in mind.

Tonight I'm washing again, erring on side of caution I've taken out all the variables. I will be doing a standard cwc, the first dish (tresseme) will only be on the length. The only thing I will be doing is a scalp massage with own sebum. Then I can see If I was simply loosening up hairs. Then next wash I will try not doing scalp massage and applying tresemme all the way to the scalp etc.

Sounds laborious but its keeping my focus away from trimming :rolleyes: Despite the hairfall, this method/product did result in about 50% reduction in porosity.

If any of you are interested, madora left me a wonderful info thing about mineral oil on my visitor msgs. Ima try sealing my ends with it then report back in some other thread :)

[SilverMcFly17]

Just my 2 cents. Garnier makes a new shampoo and conditioner called Fall fight. I've been mighty happy with it for the 3 or so weeks I've been using it. I'm not shedding as much in general and when I brush it's not a huge pile. The smell is awesome and it makes my hair SO shiny and soft.

I have also recently given up combing my hair at all when it's wet. That's been a life long habit to break but it has served me very well.