Undoing our Damages Support Group

[Greenfire]

Rules of Damaged Hair Club:


Do not do anything to your hair without researching it yourself, AND looking at multiple sources of information before testing.
Do not try more than one thing at a time.
Do not try a new thing too quickly after the old, see rule number one for why.
Test new things you do to your hair to a small section of your hair before you do the whole head. Section off a small part and pin it away from the rest, if it survives and looks better, try the rest of the hair, but tread carefully.
Do not ask for advice from people who are in the club with you until you have gone through rule number 1, AND they are graduates of the club.






Hi, my name is Thea and I used to have beautiful hair, silky and soft and strong. Then I had a chemical tragedy with a new hairdresser and my highlights and lowlights started turning orange... EEK!

We thought we'd fix it by taking all the orange out and putting colour back in after, so first we went platinum. It was really pretty! It was also still soft but not as silky and not as strong. We tried to tone it to another colour because it was just soooo blonde and I'm a little more natural than high maintenance, sooooo....

First toner was an ash blonde. It just didn't darken the platinum at all, but left a violet undertone that lasted for a couple weeks.

Next toner was a natural blonde in a darker tone, it didn't take or last either. We waited 2-3 weeks between toning.

Next was still a natural blonde but again a darker tone, this time a 6!!! But again, it still didn't take! My roots were at this point about an inch long... At least you couldn't call me platinum, but the colour is kinda weird by now.

Two weeks later I asked her about using just lowlights to at least try to match up the roots, my idea being that maybe I could just keep adding lowlights until I had taken most of the colour and turned it back to natural. So she changed from a semi to a demi permanent, (which a friend said she should have been using all along) and put in lowlights. When she was taking the foils out, she said she was just going to run a toner through, I think maybe the lowlights were too dark against the blonde and looked funny.... sooo..... she put toner in for just a couple minutes and lo and behold, it darkened the blonde but hid the lowlights.

My hair was left feeling super dry, but gummy whenever it would get wet. It would just fall apart in my hands in bits like it was melted cheese in parts. I had a piece fall off at where the virgin hair was, just fall off, thankfully it's in among my bangs and my hair grows fast enough that it will hide within a month, but wow... at this point I got really really scared to do anything else to my hair, but started looking at how to care for it and learned about no 'poo.

I went into the no 'poo and after the first wash, very gentle, learned that baking soda is just too much, so left it and went closer to water only.... using different teas and ACV as rinses only for conditioning. I've gone pretty far with just this method, and was looking at SO, but my hair just can't take the preening involved. I can use a bbb on some parts of it, but I just can't on all of it.

My canopy is the most damaged part of my hair, and while it hasn't fallen apart more, it has changed a lot. Where the toner was put on virgin hair, it's faded and left a one inch orange stripe at the top of the blonde on the rest of my hair. On water only/rinses my hair has changed to closer to a 2b or c from it's normal 1c/2a which I have had all my life. I don't know if I attribute this to the extra sebum in my hair, or to the sheer amount of damage done to it accounting for extra kinkyness.

Here's a picture that shows my roots and the orange stripe pretty well with the blonde hair under that I now want to grow out. I just can't bear to cut it to pixie length, I always get asked if I'm a boy if I have short hair if I don't colour it, and at this point I want to go virgin.

So, I want to grow it and do as little as I can. I have good haircutting scissors and will be cutting off 1/4" every 3-4 weeks, as long as my hair continues to grow as fast as I'm used to... I also am using snowymoon's massage technique to see if it helps it along, but scalp only.


http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/13/64/99/00/211.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=64&u=13649900)

[spookyghost]

Hey girl! Im the first poster-yeahhh:D

I see what you mean by the orange stripes but your hair doesnt look as bad as you think it does. But trust me, I so understand. Thats why I really need my hubby to get my pic in here. Because Im hoping my hair doesnt look as bad as I think it does although I am prepared if it really does!:p

There is a memember on here, Just Green or justy, who has beautiful hair. I mean its platinum blonde and gorgous! So healthy too. And she has talked extensively on her hair care but I cant find it! I would love to read up on how she keeps her hair so healthy while using bleach. Now Im going natural and wont be using bleach anymore but who cares right? Whatever she is doing to her hair may just bring my hair back from the dead!:) Well if she uses protein I may just be s$$t out of luck!

[Amber_Maiden]

I think you might get more responses if you had posted on the mane board.

[Greenfire]

I think you might get more responses if you had posted on the mane board.


I wanted to post on the support board, but couldn't find it!

[SerinaDaith]

Look into coconut oil, it has done wonders for my hair. Also you may want to look up the curly girl method for overall hair care.

[spookyghost]

Look into coconut oil, it has done wonders for my hair. Also you may want to look up the curly girl method for overall hair care.

I'll check into the curly girl method. I have heard other posters mention it but its usually been to posters with curly hair. I never checked into it because I thought maybe it was for curlies only.:p Unfortunately my hair hates coconut oil. I couldnt wait to try it when I first joined LHC because so many people swear by it. My hair looked blah.:cry: Dry and just yucky.

[spookyghost]

Greenfire-have you thought about cassia? Its something else we can look into. Its suppose to help damage and splits. I now have some reading up to do on catnip and cassia. Im not really going to try anything new until I figure out what is going on with this build up damage thing I got going on but I can try it in the near future!;) You know I have been thinking. What if my hd is wrong? What if my hair is just plain old damaged and thats it? Thats all it looks like to me is damage. I cant see any build up. My hair care is going to be the death of me I swear!

[Panth]

Greenfire-have you thought about cassia? Its something else we can look into. Its suppose to help damage and splits. I now have some reading up to do on catnip and cassia. Im not really going to try anything new until I figure out what is going on with this build up damage thing I got going on but I can try it in the near future!;) You know I have been thinking. What if my hd is wrong? What if my hair is just plain old damaged and thats it? Thats all it looks like to me is damage. I cant see any build up. My hair care is going to be the death of me I swear!

If it's build-up, it should wash out with a clarifying shampoo (that is if it is product build-up). If it is a mineral build-up (e.g. from hard water or from swimming in the sea or in chlorinated pools) then chelation is the answer. Both clarifying and chelation can be drying so likely will need to be followed up with a moisturising treatment of some sort.

If you clarify and chelate and there is no improvement then it is quite possible that your hair is "just plain old damaged". If it is, yes, there is nothing you can do to repair it. However, there are measures you can take to prevent it from causing more damage and hassle (e.g. by causing tangles) rather than simply cutting the damage all off. Cones are a prime example of a treatment that mask the effects of damage and they can be protective in a way - e.g. if they prevent the tangles that your damage causes, resulting in you not having further damage from detangling.

[alexis917]

I had the bad bleaching incident too, and my hair is naturally the darkest brown color, so I felt your pain. The breakage! If I wore a black shirt, from a distance, it looked as if I rolled around in some corn chips or something. Glad that my dark days (or rather, light months) are behind me. I just dyed my hair black in February or so, and it's fading out. I have about five inches of natural, virgin growth. My hair will have to grow down to my upper thigh before I can cut off ALL of the past damage to have un-dyed, un-processed, fully happy hair at my goal: belly button. But that will most likely be this time next year...if not longer. Good luck to you! Also, I used Healing Macadamia oil no matter what color my hair was, and noticed signifigant growth. Nearly an inch of dark roots every month! Which was annoying at the time, but now, I am back to using the oil and hoping for similar growth!

[xnibn]

to alexis917 how do you use the Healing Macadamia oil ? I don't understand how it would affect growth?

[alexis917]

@xnibn: I would rub it between my palms, like a quarter sized amount, and run it from my scalp (originally to help with dry scalp from all the heat styling) to my ends (which were beyond the trimming point, they were so fried!). I also frequently used a boar bristle brush. Those were really the only "healthy" things I did for my hair, and when I began incorporating them into my routine, I noticed signifigantly more growth. Plus my hair felt like a normal person's, not like burnt straw, which was a serious relief for me...!

[Greenfire]

Greenfire-have you thought about cassia? Its something else we can look into. Its suppose to help damage and splits. I now have some reading up to do on catnip and cassia. Im not really going to try anything new until I figure out what is going on with this build up damage thing I got going on but I can try it in the near future!;) You know I have been thinking. What if my hd is wrong? What if my hair is just plain old damaged and thats it? Thats all it looks like to me is damage. I cant see any build up. My hair care is going to be the death of me I swear!

I agree with Panth, if it was just build up, removing the build up should have helped. If you haven't already done something to remove it, then chelating it might be the answer after clarifying. (I think you use citric acid... but do a test swatch, not your whole head!!!)

I am considering a cassia treatment if after a month I'm still not happy with my hair. I do already use coconut oil in my hair, and I eat it too! I don't know what this community says about it good or bad, but I always would just put a teeeny bit in my fingers and smooth it on the ends when damp, and then use my fingers to fingercomb. It never bothered anything but kept the tangles at bay. I haven't had to put much on since I haven't been washing it, but my hair just doesn't feel good, and I don't feel good so I'm about at the end of the not washing limit. I'm thinking of putting a drop of my shampoo in a sink full of water and mermaid washing in it, and then putting a rinse on, I go between chamomile and ACV, but do plan to get some catnip to try. (I've also used jasmine just for the scent, it was wonderful, but more expensive than I like!)

I plan to post a pic up monthly in this thread, hopefully you guys will too! Oh yeah, I'm also going to measure hair growth from the roots to the colour! Probably the most accurate as I keep trimming!

[alexis917]

I'll post a monthly pic sometime, since I should be getting a better camera soon. My phone's camera is a dissapointment!

[spookyghost]

Hi everyone!

Panth and Greenfire-Chelating sounds like good advice. Since I already clarified, with no luck, a week before my hair dresser noticed the build-up and since I do have well water it only makes sense to at least give it a go!:) Oh and I will definately moisturize afterwards. Do any of you two know if macadamia repair mask is a moisture treatment?

Panth-I have no idea what kind of build-up I have. I would think either shampoo and product build-up or mineral build-up because I do have well water with iron it it!shudder: But my hair dresser said its a weird build-up and she cant figure out what it is. Nice huh? But the thing that bothers me is that I dont see this build-up at all! My hair is damaged and thats all I see is the damage. I dont see any type of coating and my hair doesnt feel coated either. She also said my hair has a smell. Great. She actually has one other client that has hair that smells just like mine and she has well water too. We dont live near each other. Same county but on opposite sides. So thats where I stand. I have a thread asking if build-up can look like damage and one poster said that she has heard that damage hair can have a smell and that nice smelling products may smell different in damaged hair. I guess the only thing I can do is chelate before I get my demi pem. color and see where that leaves me. I think what bothers me the most is my hd sees the build-up-I dont. Maybe there really isnt any build up at all! Sheesh!:p

Greenfire-citric acid for chelating. Is that like using lemon or lime? If so what would the measurements be and do I moisturize afterwards? I was thinking of just going to Sallys and buyin a chelating shampoo because Im scared of the citric acid not working for my hair and making my hair even worse. What do you think?

[Greenfire]

Okay, first rule of damaged hair club:

Do not do anything to your hair without researching it yourself, AND looking at multiple sources of information before testing.

Second rule of damaged hair club:

Do not try more than one thing at a time.

Third rule of damaged hair club:

Do not try a new thing too quickly after the old, see rule number one for why.

Fourth rule of damaged hair club:

Test new things you do to your hair to a small section of your hair before you do the whole head. Section off a small part and pin it away from the rest, if it survives and looks better, try the rest of the hair, but tread carefully.

Fifth rule of damaged hair club:

Do not ask for advice from people who are in the club with you until you have gone through rule number 1, AND they are graduates of the club.


THAT being said.... spookyghost, you broke rule number 5 asking me about chelating. I DID a little rule number 1 for you and found an archived post that talks about it, here's the link: http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=26643

The first page says that you need to clarify more than once. If you haven't done this, you are not ready to move to step 3 from step 2. This article links to another one, (link on page is broken but here it is: http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=12690&pp=15 ) It's by our beloved snowymoon, with her OWN problems and getting to the bottom of it.

To answer your question, all I can say is it appears that yes, you need to clarify a few times before you chelate, and THEN you can chelate, but they are recommending a chelating shampoo. As to the citric acid for chelating, I have seen it mentioned by one member on the board here, but before I'd recommend citric acid to you, I'd do a heck of a lot more darn research!! (think I'm going to edit the first post with the rules... heeheehee)


ETA, renamed group

[Greenfire]

Okay, most definitely read that second link. In the last post, Snowymoon says she has it figured out, but I can't find the archived link she specifies, but the second one she lists is here: http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=218102#post218102

I'm liking what I read a LOT from Heidi in that thread, and yes, I think you do need to try chelating, just because of you saying that you have minerals in your water to the point that it's altered the smell of your hair, kinda sounds like they may have bonded to your hair somehow, if you can break the bond and get them out, it's possible you may have a solution. But DON'T do a THING until we look at this further!

I'm thinking of looking up Heidi's mayo washes.... gotta research a little more, but I might try that before the catnip rinse... not decided yet, but they're both on my to do! So, current regimen: benign neglect.

[blondie9912]

You poor thing. I know EXACTLY what you're going through, this happened to me last year. I had highlights for about three years, and decided to grow them out. So Nov 2010 I got my last set of highlights, and was growing my hair out. By June 2011, I wanted to brighten up my hair, so I decided to use John Frieda Lightening Spray (why, why, why?!). Then, when that wasn't light enough, I bought a box dye for extra-light golden blonde hair. It turned out okay, but it was SO light! I used it twice to ge tthe 'desired shade'. Twice in one day, eek! Then four days later, I dyed my hair with a demi-permanent box dye in dirty blonde, which made it a weird murky orange-y colour. Then I went to the salon less than a week later, and my stylist TEASED my hair and THEN highlighted it with bleach, and applied brown demi-perm hair dye to the rest of my hair. Then, of course, the typical salon roughing ensued (ripping a brush through my hair, flatironing, etc). When that was over my hair was CRISPY like a potato chip, and breaking off left, right, and center. I thought I would have to shave my head, it was that bad.

My canopy, like yours, was the most damaged. So I decided to do the sensible thing, which was to shave off a portion of my hair, right at my hairline (basically just like bangs, but shaved right down). Great idea, huh? That section was awful before I got rid of it, it would get all mushy and gummy when wet, and I wouldn't be able to smoothly comb through it no matter how hard I tried.

Anyway, long story short, my hair has improved a TON since then. Trust me, there is a way for your hair to get better, and it WILL happen. What honestly saved my hair was coconut oil and Joico K-Pak Intense Hydrator. I know the feeling of being scared to brush your hair because little pieces are constantly falling out, and not wanting to brush it at all because you're afraid it will literally snap off. Coconut oil provided tons of lubrication for my hair, so I was able to gently comb it. But I had to use a generous amount of coconut oil, like maybe a dime sized amount for each half of my hair. Your hair will look oily, but it won't matter because you're going to wear it up all the time! I wore my hair in a coconut-oiled bun for about 3 months (with a fabric headband, it was pretty unflattering, lol) but it did the trick. Trim about half an inch every 3 months, or as you see fit. Until then, don't even think about colouring or styling your hair, just baby it!

I promise you, it will improve :) Best of luck to you!

[SerinaDaith]

I'll check into the curly girl method. I have heard other posters mention it but its usually been to posters with curly hair. I never checked into it because I thought maybe it was for curlies only.:p Unfortunately my hair hates coconut oil. I couldnt wait to try it when I first joined LHC because so many people swear by it. My hair looked blah.:cry: Dry and just yucky.

Curly girl hair method seems to be kinder and gentler overall which is why I recommend looking into it for damaged hair, I am a damaged curly/wavy and it has helped a lot!

[Humbug454]

Can't say I'm too much of a fan of having "rules" by which I must abide to outgrow my damaged hair.

I'm taking it as it comes, trimming away the damage is the only way to get rid of it in the end, whether you choose a big chop or lots of smaller ones.

Good luck trimming off your damage though.

[alexis917]

I'm hoping to grow it to my goal with a few minor trims in between. Right now I've only been dusting, and when I inspect my hair my ends look healthy. I haven't actually trimmed since... about March? How often do you all trim your ends, and do you trim them yourself? I have been trimming by myself because when I go to a salon, they don't ask if I want a trim, they just cut two inches off.

[Panth]

I agree with Panth, if it was just build up, removing the build up should have helped. If you haven't already done something to remove it, then chelating it might be the answer after clarifying. (I think you use citric acid... but do a test swatch, not your whole head!!!)



Hi everyone!

Panth and Greenfire-Chelating sounds like good advice. Since I already clarified, with no luck, a week before my hair dresser noticed the build-up and since I do have well water it only makes sense to at least give it a go!:) Oh and I will definately moisturize afterwards. Do any of you two know if macadamia repair mask is a moisture treatment?

Panth-I have no idea what kind of build-up I have. I would think either shampoo and product build-up or mineral build-up because I do have well water with iron it it!shudder: But my hair dresser said its a weird build-up and she cant figure out what it is. Nice huh? But the thing that bothers me is that I dont see this build-up at all! My hair is damaged and thats all I see is the damage. I dont see any type of coating and my hair doesnt feel coated either. She also said my hair has a smell. Great. She actually has one other client that has hair that smells just like mine and she has well water too. We dont live near each other. Same county but on opposite sides. So thats where I stand. I have a thread asking if build-up can look like damage and one poster said that she has heard that damage hair can have a smell and that nice smelling products may smell different in damaged hair. I guess the only thing I can do is chelate before I get my demi pem. color and see where that leaves me. I think what bothers me the most is my hd sees the build-up-I dont. Maybe there really isnt any build up at all! Sheesh!:p

Greenfire-citric acid for chelating. Is that like using lemon or lime? If so what would the measurements be and do I moisturize afterwards? I was thinking of just going to Sallys and buyin a chelating shampoo because Im scared of the citric acid not working for my hair and making my hair even worse. What do you think?

To determine what the build-up is you can either guess based on your routine or guess based on attempting to remove it. E.g. if you use lots of oil, or hairspray, or serum, or certain herbal treatments, or protein, or wax, or cones, etc., etc. it is likely to be a product-based build up and require clarifying. If you have hard water or well water or you swim it is likely to be mineral-based and require chelation. Or, the opposite way around - if clarifying does nothing it wasn't product-based, if chelating does nothing it wasn't mineral-based.

As far as build-up goes, you probably won't see it. In fact, in small amounts it can be harmless or even beneficial (think - any treatment (e.g. oil, conditioner, etc.) which takes a few treatments to work must be building up on your hair). Rather, build-up is something you feel the effects of, and only then when it has got too much. The signs may be, among other things, extra tangles, dryness, frizz, loss of shine, feeling "like doll hair", static, etc. Rarely, it may alter colour (e.g. iron build-up due to certain well water on blonde, grey or white hair can result in brassy tones).

I've never heard about damage altering smell, personally.

As far as chelating, a common recommendation here is a club soda rinse (you can search for that - there are plenty of threads). An alternative is to buy a shampoo that is advertised as 'chelating' (ones advertised as 'for swimmers' may also work) - a key tell-tale ingredient is EDTA (and reasonably high on the ingredients list - small amounts are in many shampoos as a preservative). Citric acid may work on mineral deposits (I think you buy it at the chemists - and yes, it is the same acid as in lemons and limes, though I don't know if a lemon juice rinse would work ok - it's possible it could bleach your hair somewhat).

Another option (though supposedly less effective than club soda) is a simple vinegar rinse. I just did this the other day and it made masses of difference to both tangles and lack of shine. I took about 3-4 tablespoons vinegar to 1/2 pint warm water and let it sit on my hair for about 5 mins before rinsing out. I did it between the shampoo and the conditioner. This is quite strong for a vinegar rinse and I only plan to use it as a chelation treatment. For a rinse to maintain my hair mineral deposit-free, I plan to use 1 teaspoon per 1/2 pint water after my conditioner. As far as what vinegar goes - I used malt vinegar in desperation as there was nothing else in the house but that's not recommended for white, grey, blonde or red hair. Apple cider vinegar is often recommended but has been reported here to darken blonde hair. White wine vinegar or just plain cheap white vinegar (as is used for cleaning) works fine and is safe for all colours.

Apologies - I appear to have wittered on far too much!

[Greenfire]

Can't say I'm too much of a fan of having "rules" by which I must abide to outgrow my damaged hair.

I'm taking it as it comes, trimming away the damage is the only way to get rid of it in the end, whether you choose a big chop or lots of smaller ones.

Good luck trimming off your damage though.

Oh, you haven't signed anything have you? ;) The rules are there to protect ourselves from trying bad advice, or just the next thing without jumping in too quick and too fast. I know I want to do something super fast to fix it, but really the real fix will be it growing out. With that in mind, I don't want the existing damage to threaten any virgin undamaged hair, so I'll take my rules tyvm!

I cut off close to 6 inches, more in some spots because I layered it. Wish I had found this place first and learned about micro trims and dusting, I think I might have gotten away with keeping the damage away from the undamaged part a little longer, because I didn't know how important it was to use a super sharp pair!


I'm hoping to grow it to my goal with a few minor trims in between. Right now I've only been dusting, and when I inspect my hair my ends look healthy. I haven't actually trimmed since... about March? How often do you all trim your ends, and do you trim them yourself? I have been trimming by myself because when I go to a salon, they don't ask if I want a trim, they just cut two inches off.


There's a couple methods on here for trimming hair, look up dusting and microtrims, and there's feye's method which seems very straightforward for cutting longer hair. I normally just pull my hair forward and hold the ends between my fingers and trim off a very little amount every month or two. I'll also twist it into a long rope and trim the shorter pieces that stick out, as they're the really damaged ones that have broken, some are very short.

But get a good pair of scissors!!! They had some on sale at Sally's near me for 7.99, but I'm a sucker for good looks and bought a more expensive pair, but at least they LOOK like special scissors so no one will be tempted to use them for something else! (not to mention they're in my sewing box and the scissors in there are already off limits)

Blondie!!!!! OMG, THANKYOU for you post! It really does help to find other people to commiserate with! I can't believe you SHAVED it!!!! Totally Britney! Wow! So, how's your hair holding up now??

[alexis917]

I bought some for thirty dollars or so at Ulta a few months ago, they seem to be holding up well. I don't have any better shears to compare them with or anything, but I was known to cut my hair with safety scissors when I was about ten. Glad to say these are a huge improvement..haha!

[AnnaB]

I am in exactly same position and my hair is blonde with orange stripes and roots too. I am tempted to chop it off but dont think I can pull off a pixie.

As to rules, I am always stuck on 1 because I am scared of trying anything without doing lots and lots of research.

good luck to ALL of us :)

[alexis917]

@AnnaB: I was there once too! I dyed my hair back to a dark color so I wouldn't have to touch up the roots and I'm finally growing out the dyed portion. The color didn't fade enough for my roots to be visible, and I have like five inches of entirely virgin hair. I cut most of the blonde-orange off thanks to tons of trimming sessions...the remaining hair isn't signifigantly damaged, so I'm hoping babying my hair will keep it in decent condition 'til I reach my goal! Thanks for the luck though, I need it!

[Arakazi]

I definitely belong in this club!

My hair got fried by bleach and and dyes. I was really rough with a brush (if I brushed at all) And developed a huge dread like birds nest which took hours to get out and that was mainly through aggressive brushing and condishoner. My ends get very coarse and dry and they break often. Have white dot's of death (sometimes clusters of them on the same strand :() and a huge amount to split ends (I found a hair that had split into 5 a few months ago).

About 4 months ago I cut 3 inches off. It brought my hair back a little above waist. Now its almost at hip again and am in need of another 3inch chop soon. I have started using coconut oil and I only wash it once a week. I really want some argon oil I think that would do wonder's for my hair.

Subbing this thread. :D

[Arakazi]

Oh and I forgot to say. That I have heard that henna can help a lot of the damage that I mentioned above, So I hennaed my hair last night and will figure it out myself if it works :)

[spookyghost]

Greenfire-Trust me, I dont do anything to my hair before researching and then Im usually still too scared to try many things!:p I figured a quick question, before I actually looked it up myself, would just give me a little insight on the subject. I have no problems doing my own research and I will from now on.;)

SerinaDaith-Thank you so much for giving me a quick explanation of the curly girl method. I have to read up on that because it sounds like my damage hair might like it!

Alexis917-Right now I have no idea how much and how often Im getting my ends trimmed! Big help I am-huh? I used to get my ends trimmed about every two months. My hair is damaged so I might get more hair trimmed more often, not worrying about the length too much, but the health of it. But I want that growth so bad so Im on the fence about what Im doing right now.

Panth-Thank you for all your advice and info.! Greenfire gave some excellent links to snowy moon and heidi w that I need to read up on too. It sounds like I need to clarify a couple more times before I think about chelating. I have to read up on it more and check into if its going to fade my demi-permanent color. Which I cant see how it wont fade it. The actual ash color stays for about 11 days and gradually fades till I get it again in 6 weeks.

[alexis917]

@spookyghost: You were pretty helpful, everyone's hair is a bit different but I need to get on a general schedule!

@Arakazi: Your hair is so long in comparison to mine, but I wish you luck eliminating the damage! Tell me how the henna works. I am so curious about it, and wanted to use it myself. But- I've never used it before, and have heard it is incredibly messy...plus, my hair is currently it's natural color, though some of it is dyed. I can only tell how much of it is "virgin" by the feel and the slight difference in color. I'm worried to henna my hair and have half of it come out an entirely different shade of red than the rest!

[palaeoqueen]

Well I definitely belong here, thanks for starting this thread!

My story:

Years of bleach highlights with the occasional dark box dye on top when I got bored then resuming with the bleach highlights when I got bored of that. Add to this daily washing, blow drying and straightening. My hair was probably damaged for years but I didn't notice and never questioned why I couldn't seem to grow it very long (very regular trims obviously didn't help this).

A couple of years ago I decided to quit the bleach and colour my hair with Manic Panic etc instead. I had about six months of pink/purple/red hair before getting bored and deciding to go back to blonde. Unfortunately the red dyes stained my hair very badly, even the virgin roots, so I ended up having it stripped then dark ash blonde dye put over the top. The dark ash blonde dye turned out warm light brown which looked dreadful on me so I put a semi on over the top, which didn't do anything to the colour, then went to another salon and got bleach highlights again. Over the next few months I went more and more blonde at this salon. I had actually asked them for a mid ash blonde but what they gave me was a very light bright yellow blonde (you know the colour I mean, the colour that it seems like every other woman in her 20s and 30s gets done). I hated it, realised my hair was turning to candy floss and this is when I decided to stop dying my hair (July 2011).

I did put another box dye over it in August 2011 to try to hide the demarcation line then in December 2011 I had it coloured at a salon back to my natural colour. The stylist did a good job, the only problem was that she assured me that the demi she used couldn't possibly affect my virgin roots. Unfortunately it did and after it fading I now have three toned hair.

Despite the latest set back I'm fairly happy now and (im)patiently growing it out. My natural colour is a dark ash blonde and I'm really happy to see it coming back, it's so much nicer against my skin tone than the harsh yellow bleach.

The damage all this has done has been terrible, it really went downhill when I had the red stripped out and then continued to bleach. My ends have been snapping clean off, even inches up the hair shaft, splits galore and my hair felt like straw. I have finally worked out a routine that seems to be keeping my hair happy for now. I also figured out a few things that don't work.

Nice Routine:

Wash and condition hair with Organix Moroccan Argan Oil spoo/condish. Use tonnes of condish and comb through in the shower.
Every other wash use Organix Macadamia deep conditioner. Leave on covered with a shower cap fro an hour if possible.
Every morning and evening apply a tiny amount of Argan Oil (the pure stuff) through ends. This is the best oil I've tried so far, it's really turned around the condition of my hair.
Braid every night and braid/bun during the day.
S&D thoroughly whenever I get the chance.
Microtrim 1/4-1/2 inch every two months.

My Hair Hates:

Protein!!! All of it, in any form. I was using Organix Coconut Milk spoo/condish and my ends literally exploded. I had more splits and white dots than I knew what to do with and the texture was worse than straw. It was absolutely awful, frizzy, unmanagable, I couldn't get a comb through it to save my life. That all went away very quickly when I switched to a non-protein spoo/condish (and came back when I tried it again as an experiment).

This also goes for coconut oil, which doesn't contain protein but does prevent protein loss. I love it for my body but I no longer put it on my hair.

So... just because you have damaged and/or bleached hair doesn't necessarily mean you need protein so as always, tread cautiously when trying out new things. I still can't believe I managed to make my hair worse while trying to treat it better!

This got quite long but thanks for reading and I hope it will be helpful to someone. I'll keep posting updates and pictures at some point.

[alexis917]

@palaeoqueen: I find that protein makes my hair feel gross. I researched a few DIY hairmasks and for "damaged hair that needs moisture", an egg was suggested. I tried it and my hair felt gross! Stiff and brittle. We have a pretty similar routine too, since we both use Organix! However, I feel that braiding my hair during the day makes it worse. It probably improves it but since the hairband is an inch or two away from my ends, I'm scared it will cause breakage there...

[Greenfire]

Okay, I have a curling iron and a hairdryer, and I am going to do my best to not use them from now on. Sometimes you just have to, like you're running late and can't have wet hair, or you have a job interview... but yeah, gonna do my best to leave it alone.

On that note, when my hair is longer I'll be trying sock bun curls, they don't look damaging at all!

I don't know how to do anything but a french braid on my hair, so am experimenting a little with different ways of braiding. I've read that damp bunning is good for the hair, mine's not long enough yet, but I'm planning on learning so much about hair care that I never make a mistake!

I read one of the threads yesterday about growing out colour, and there was a henna accident, and after reading what Heidi had to say about henna, and the fact that cassia turns hair yellowish, I'm a little worried about looking at them right now, I know catnip colours hair, but at least that washes out!

My natural is extra fine, so I've always liked what colour and highlights did to my hair to thicken it, but now, learning what it DOES to make it thicker I'm a little freaked to do it again in future. My hair just won't take a colour now, it barely took the level 7 I put on it in a demi, you can see from my pic just how little it took, it turned it very light blonde from white.

Just so you can see how white it went: http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/13/64/99/00/42653810.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=65&u=13649900) was me on Feb 28. I had tried several attempts to tone it at this point, and it was badly damaged, so this was when I cut off 6 inches.

This is what it looked like just a few months before that, BEFORE I had to leave my hairdresser of 22 years: http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/13/64/99/00/28703_10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=66&u=13649900)

So, yeah, a big cut... My hair grows fast I think, I know the average growth is about a whole hand length per year from fingertip to wrist, but I think it grows a little faster. I know it grows uneven, one side grows quite a bit longer than the other between cuts. After a couple months I know it's time for a cut because it looks like someone cut the back really uneven. I'm hoping that means I can just keep my hair at shoulder length for a while until it is cut all out. If I can get it in a little better shape then the damage shouldn't migrate into the new growth.

I have no idea how dark my hair is anymore. I had really light hair as a kid, but the roots are growing in so dark! I know my hair always got lighter in the summer and darker in the winter... so I'm hoping to still have some natural highlighting as it grows out, but no more hitting the bottle for me!

I'm going to wait until I wash my hair to take a picture of my roots, and I'm going to measure them too, so that I can track just how fast it grows.

[alexis917]

@Greenfire: Good luck on your heatless hairstyling! And as for all those sock bun things, Loepsie has a bunch of tutorials on YouTube for other fun heatless styles too. Unfortunately, I am incapable of the simplest French braid. My hairstyles are either down up or half up, really. But if you have more braiding skills than I do, I would try them out! Also, I thought I was the only one who's hair grew unevenly. If I divide my hair into two equal sections over each shoulder, my left side is always about half an inch longer than the right side. And damaged or not, blonde hair really suits your skintone!

[Greenfire]

Aw thanks Alexis!:o (blushes):blossom:

I just finished reading all the links that I was given by spindance in my Hello thread. Her advice to read and reread again and again, along with the do one thing at a time really influenced the rules here. LAST thing I want in here is for one of us to say, oh so and so said to do this and LOOK AT MY HAIR! (I know we're all smarter than that, I mean, look at what we already DID to our hair!! heeheehee)

Okay, this is the quote with all the links I was directed to read:


Here are some articles that you might find helpful:

Start here - Ursula's beginner advice (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=39)

More beginner's advice (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=65)

Diagnosing your hair
(http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44)

About damage
(http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79)

Dry vs Damage (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=221)

Build up & Clarifying (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=194)

More on Clarifying (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=224)

About Cones
(http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=13)

More About 'Cones (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=151)

Preventing splits/damage (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=8)

I suggest reading these, as well as whatever other hair care articles seem interesting, think about it then re-read them in a few weeks. Check back in a few months. I was surprised at how much more I picked up the 2nd and 3rd time through some of them, even though I had thought I understood them well the first time. There is so much information here. It takes time to sort through it, and much longer to find out which things do and don't work for you. Don't be discouraged if something that is wonderful for one person doesn't work for you at all. That's pretty normal. Each of us is unique, so we must learn and accept what does and doesn't work for us.

Best of luck!

There are some specifically that deal with buildup and clarifying and chelating. I plan to pm Heidi and ask her about her mayo thing, if she's still using it and if she thinks it will help me, but think that's going to be the first thing I try. If it doesn't work and the protein is too much, then I at least know what to do to get it out now!!!

So, I haven't washed my hair, like really washed it, in over a month now. Just some rinses, and water, and most recently just the sebum only method. I really hate the sebummy feel in the hair, so not thinking it's gonna be a go for me, but not sure what to do to wash it out without going overboard. I think I'll just take a bucket and put some poo in it, and mermaid soak my hair for a bit in it and try to get as much out of it that way, then rinse it really well and rinse again with chamomile. Then maybe a little coconut oil on the ends and see what it gets me. If I do this today, I'll post pics up of my roots later. (also need to see if the tutorial on putting up pics here is any good, if not I'll make a new one.)

[Greenfire]

I made a simple tutorial on how to post pictures in here, I hope you enjoy!http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=2254146#post2254146

[Humbug454]

Oh, you haven't signed anything have you? ;) The rules are there to protect ourselves from trying bad advice, or just the next thing without jumping in too quick and too fast. I know I want to do something super fast to fix it, but really the real fix will be it growing out. With that in mind, I don't want the existing damage to threaten any virgin undamaged hair, so I'll take my rules tyvm

I can only suggest find something that works for you and stick with it if you don't want to take the leap and trim all the damaged hair in one go.

Something that works for someone else might not work for you. So even the "tried and tested" rule doesn't necessarily confirm it will work for you! For example some peoples hair loves cones, others doesn't.

Rude replies won't get you anywhere.

[Greenfire]

Rude replies won't get you anywhere.


I'm sorry, I wasn't intending to be rude, but only to point out to you that no one was holding anyone to the rules, because you seemed to be offended by them. Now you seem to be offended by me pointing that out and calling me names. I had absolutely no intention of upsetting you, and once again I am sorry for the unintended outcome of my posting on a public forum. Please do not take things I say on here personally, because with the exception of this post, and the one that I told you not to follow the rules if you didn't want to, I was not meaning to be personal. I had no idea you would take offence, and you totally got the wrong meaning from what I said.

[CorinaS]

I have a question, if anyone here knows the answer: how can too much protein hurt the hair? I used wheat germ protein and coconut oil and it hasn't been great at all for my hair. Do you the "scientific explaination" for this?

[blondie9912]

Blondie!!!!! OMG, THANKYOU for you post! It really does help to find other people to commiserate with! I can't believe you SHAVED it!!!! Totally Britney! Wow! So, how's your hair holding up now??


Glad to help! The shaved section is at the bridge of my nose, and I evened it out some time ago to make it look like bangs growing out (because when I shaved it, it was mostly on one side of my head. Like half the size of bangs, if that make sense). My hair has improved a lot since I joined, I'm really happy with everything I've learned here :) One important thing to remember is how susceptible fine, chemically treated hair is to mechanical damage, so the less you fuss with your hair, the better.

[Greenfire]

I can't find any science to back up that protein hurts the hair, but from reading people's complaints about it, I think it's more an imbalance thing, that if you're using protein, you also need to be moisturizing or your hair can feel dry and crunchy. I think that magical balance is what a lot of us are looking for, so when our hair feels dry, we reach for hydration, when it feels weak, we look at protein.

I do know that anything you put on your hair, protein included, there is such a thing as too much, because it can all cause build up. If you're not using some means to remove that buildup, then it can leave hair less than desireable.

I've found two tests online to check for different kinds of damage, and they're very interesting, short of putting our hair under a microscope, it's good practice to know what's wrong with your hair using other means. We can see split ends and white spots, so that's easy enough, but there's a stretch test and a porosity test that I plan to do and you might want to as well.

For the porosity test, you take a glass of water and put a strand or two of your hair on top of it. If after a minute it is still floating it is called hydrophobic and may be suffering a buildup, so treatments be they colour, conditioning or perms, may not take well in your hair, and it also may be lank and not shiny, depends on the nature of the buildup. You may wish to look at clarifying it if that is the case. If after a minute it is half floating half sinking, it is healthy and normal, but if it's at the bottom of the glass, it's porous and needs hydration and protein both.

The second test is a wet stretch test.

You take a small section of your hair and wet (maybe ten strands) and then hold it with two hands. You stretch both sections apart, healthy hair should spring back. (It should stretch about 30% of it's length)

If it stretches a little more than that, and then breaks, it is weak and needs protein, same if it just stretches and stretches and stretches and doesn't break.

If it feels limp, weak or gummy it needs protein...

If it doesn't stretch but just breaks, it needs moisture

Hair that has too much protein will lack elasticity so it will easily before you get to the 30% stretch even, hair like this can look very damaged as it is very brittle and break prone. If this is your hair the recommendation is to clarify it to get rid of the buildup of protein, and then to deep deep deep condition. Too much moisture on the other hand will show the mushy over elastic hair that just stretches and stretches and stretches long past the 30%

So... balance, as in all things, may our lives and our hair all find it together.

I'm going to go do my hair and these tests now, hope to post a pic up later.

[CorinaS]

I can't find any science to back up that protein hurts the hair, but from reading people's complaints about it, I think it's more an imbalance thing, that if you're using protein, you also need to be moisturizing or your hair can feel dry and crunchy. I think that magical balance is what a lot of us are looking for, so when our hair feels dry, we reach for hydration, when it feels weak, we look at protein.

I do know that anything you put on your hair, protein included, there is such a thing as too much, because it can all cause build up. If you're not using some means to remove that buildup, then it can leave hair less than desireable.

I've found two tests online to check for different kinds of damage, and they're very interesting, short of putting our hair under a microscope, it's good practice to know what's wrong with your hair using other means. We can see split ends and white spots, so that's easy enough, but there's a stretch test and a porosity test that I plan to do and you might want to as well.

For the porosity test, you take a glass of water and put a strand or two of your hair on top of it. If after a minute it is still floating it is called hydrophobic and may be suffering a buildup, so treatments be they colour, conditioning or perms, may not take well in your hair, and it also may be lank and not shiny, depends on the nature of the buildup. You may wish to look at clarifying it if that is the case. If after a minute it is half floating half sinking, it is healthy and normal, but if it's at the bottom of the glass, it's porous and needs hydration and protein both.

The second test is a wet stretch test.

You take a small section of your hair and wet (maybe ten strands) and then hold it with two hands. You stretch both sections apart, healthy hair should spring back. (It should stretch about 30% of it's length)

If it stretches a little more than that, and then breaks, it is weak and needs protein, same if it just stretches and stretches and stretches and doesn't break.

If it feels limp, weak or gummy it needs protein...

If it doesn't stretch but just breaks, it needs moisture

Hair that has too much protein will lack elasticity so it will easily before you get to the 30% stretch even, hair like this can look very damaged as it is very brittle and break prone. If this is your hair the recommendation is to clarify it to get rid of the buildup of protein, and then to deep deep deep condition. Too much moisture on the other hand will show the mushy over elastic hair that just stretches and stretches and stretches long past the 30%

So... balance, as in all things, may our lives and our hair all find it together.

I'm going to go do my hair and these tests now, hope to post a pic up later.

Thank you very much! I can wait to try these test myself!

[spookyghost]

I plan on doing the tests too over the weekend! Its 5:00am and I have to leave for work in a few, I just wanted to check in real quick!

Greenfire-You look nice in both pics-the one with your hair longer and the one with it shorter. You can wear both long and short hair. If you saw me with short hair you would wander if I was male or female! Ha.

Blondie9912-I also cant believe you shaved your hair. You talk about brave! I really wish I could do that. To have all my damage gone in minutes! Maybe if I didnt work and maybe if I was single!:lol: My hubby loves long hair-loves it. He'd rather see my hair damaged and long than short and healthy. And Im not even talking about real short. Short to my husband is shoulder length! It doesnt bother me he feels that way because I feel the same way. Now if I loved short hair and wanted short hair we would have issues!;)

Oh Greenfire-thanks for all the help with pics. I have to check into that and look on the sites that you mentioned. Between work and everything else I havent had too much time to read up on much. Hopefully this weekend!

[alexis917]

I heard of the stretch test but was too worried about snapping or hurting hair I used some from my brush. I hope that doesn't alter my results. My hair stretched about 30 percent, then snapped. I think that means it's okay. I hope so, anyway, because I am not in the mood to trim or anything.

[spookyghost]

I heard of the stretch test but was too worried about snapping or hurting hair I used some from my brush. I hope that doesn't alter my results. My hair stretched about 30 percent, then snapped. I think that means it's okay. I hope so, anyway, because I am not in the mood to trim or anything.

I have done the stretch test before and I did it today also. I think my hair just snaps. I dont think it stretches at all. I dont feel any stretch just a snap so I guess Im going with that. Thats why I have always felt like I need moisture and my new hd says that I dont need moisture that I need protein. Im beginning to think she is wrong! I think she thinks that because of my bleach highlights and damaged hair. I just ditched my protein S&C and got a moisturizing one and my hair seems to be liking the moisture!:)

[palaeoqueen]

I could never figure out the stretch test, obviously I know what to do but I could never decide how much it had stretched etc. I go by how my hair feels, at the moment it's obviously dry and I know it hates protein because I never change more than one product at a time so I know that the nasty splitting and breakage coincides with when I've been using a lot of protein loaded products.

Spookyghost - I don't claim to be an expert but your "symptoms" positively scream protein overload to me. I'm glad to hear the extra moisture seems to be helping so far.

On a positive note from me my mum hasn't seen me in over a month and yesterday told me (unprompted) that my hair is looking so much better and healthier. I was so happy that the difference is obvious to other people too.

[earthnut]

For the porosity test, you take a glass of water and put a strand or two of your hair on top of it. If after a minute it is still floating it is called hydrophobic and may be suffering a buildup, so treatments be they colour, conditioning or perms, may not take well in your hair, and it also may be lank and not shiny, depends on the nature of the buildup. You may wish to look at clarifying it if that is the case. If after a minute it is half floating half sinking, it is healthy and normal, but if it's at the bottom of the glass, it's porous and needs hydration and protein both.

This is a poor and unreliable test. Hair will float on water for all kinds of reasons unrelated to porosity. See: http://scienceyhairblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/hair-porosity-how-to-measure-sort-of.html

[Greenfire]

I did both tests and my hair just stretched and stretched and stretched until it finally broke, it was crazy! It had to have doubled at least!

I did the water test and my hair floated, but I thought it was because of the sebum making it waterproof, because I think my hair is probably porous without anything on it.

In any case, I also talked to Heidi W about her mayo treatment, and after my test figured I needed a protein treatment too, so I made one with an egg yolk, honey and olive oil, put it on and let it sit for 20 minutes, rinsed it out and followed it with mayo, straight up. I'm pretty sure all the sebum came out in the mermaid rinse, and my hair felt fine after that, but boy did it ever feel dry after the protein rinse and even after the mayo, even with all that oil! It was all fuzzed up into bitty little tangles, even though I was really careful to detangle first, so I'm sitting here waiting for it to dry so I can detangle and see if I need to put in any coconut oil. When it dries I'll do a pic and measure, got busy yesterday.

I also want to repeat that porosity test when I'm feeling confident in its strength to wash it and not condition it. Just for curiosity sake, even if it's hard to determine anything from it!

One other thing I've learned from reading here, is that some of the big chops don't really protect your hair, they just put the end of the hair closer to the shorter hair. So if your hair is damaged, a huge chop might not be the smartest thing to do. I feel like I should just chop it all off, but that leaves undamaged hair near the end, and it's that point that suffers the most. So keeping it longer, even damaged, will allow the virgin part to grow out faster, and I won't have to cut into it at all until I'm good and ready! (though I do admire the girls who shave their heads, I've been there and done that, and it's just not me anymore!)

[spookyghost]

Palaeoqueen-Im actually feeling pretty happy about my protein overload! Kinda funny huh? It really is starting to all make a little sense now. I felt in my heart that my hair needed moisture but I just didnt trust my insticts. Now that I feel like my hair has too much protein I now know the direction I need to go in to get my hair going healthier.:)

Earthnut-I read that link and I really like it. Very informative!

Greenfire-Let us know how your hair dries!

[Greenfire]

Okay, wet, my hair felt totally fried... really really fried, it was sticking together and I couldn't even consider trying to get my fingers through it. Dry?

It's incredible! Whole other story, it feels soft, it feels silky... my roots feel really gross and look greasy, so they obviously didn't need the protein and moisture but wow!!! It really does feel great! I'm kinda bothered to take pictures of the roots, there was obviously too much oil in the mix for them to be happy, but wow, the rest of the hair really really loved it!

If I can get over the greasies, I'll still take pictures, it kinda looks like my hair grew overnight too, so I'm really interested in measuring it! If I'm heading into a growth period, yay!

I plan to try doing another mermaid rinse in a few days if I can stand the oilies, at least I know some tricks from the sebum only girls on how to work that... but I also want to do a SMT, but just need some ingredients first.

Again, wow on how my hair feels dry!

[Greenfire]

http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/13/64/99/00/dscn0910.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=70&u=13649900)

Here you can kinda see the roots, but you can definitely see how shiny they are from the extra oil! You can also see the orangey spot where the toner had coloured my roots previously, should have just left them... I'd be several more months along.

I measured my hair, and it's 19" from forehead down to the tip, if I'm understanding the instructions how to measure correctly... The roots are 3/4" long. I plan to measure them every month, so this is a marker....


http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/13/64/99/00/dscn0911.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=71&u=13649900)

In this second photo you get a better picture of the darkness of the roots currently with the oil, cause in the first, they appeared to be blending in better. You can also see just how smooth my hair is!!!! I didn't brush it at all, just a wide tooth comb! This is more like my hair normally acts, the waviness I've had lately is exaggerated grossly by the damage....

[spookyghost]

Greenfire-I think your hair looks really good. It doesnt look dry or damaged. It looks way better than mine!:p What did you say is your natural color? Is it ash or blondette? Your roots look like my color-ash. But its hard to tell with just a little bit or roots to go by.

[Greenfire]

Hahaha, well, the roots in that pic are kinda greasy from the mix I put on, so a little darker than normal, I actually woke in the night to one of my dogs licking my crown, so, um yeah... didn't rinse well enough ya think???

My hair colour, well, I think it might be kinda ashy, but it always highlighted kinda golden honeyish naturally, but I haven't seen it in over 20 years so I really can't say, I'll be just as surprised as you! It looks like it's coming out a 6 or 7 level, but as to cool warm or neutral.... that'll take a little time to tell.

But yes, it still felt great this morning, and my husband said he could totally feel the difference too! I even got so excited that I chopped a bunch more layers into the last few inches of it, so it's not blunt anymore, it gives it that, I meant to do this hairstyle kinda look now I think.

But yeah, gotta wash again, and worried I'll take out too much of the good stuff just to clean the excess from the roots... and then just be back where I started. Next time mayo only goes on the ends, but really hoping it lasts through the next wash.

[Arakazi]

The end's of my hair are very damaged. I got a pair of good scissors yesterday and have been SnDing instead of doing the 3inch chop I thought I had to do. I also did a clarify last night and left an SMT in my hair over night. My hair feels really nice today :D :D :D

Other damage is from bleach and dying my hair over the years. I have hennaed my hair and will continue to do so from now on. I get a lot of frizzyness too :shrug:

My usual routine is no cones or SLS washing once per week and I think this is going OK. But I have been wondering if CO would work better.

Great thread. I have subbed and wish everyone luck on their hair recovery!!:grouphug:

[Greenfire]

I made a pact with someone in another thread the other day to not CUT till Christmas. We'll both S&D anything that NEEDS it, but no cutting. I am sooo glad, because yesterday I had a terrible hair day. So bad last night that I know I would have chopped again, and it keeps losing a couple inches every time I do. Mind you, I may have left it to just the bangs, but I can't guarantee that either, so this pact is a saving grace for me.

Anyone else want to join? That's 4 months of growth, so an extra two inches for those who have an average hair growth. (here's hoping a lot of us get more) That two inches will put me with the ability to hide the hair in a lot more styles on really bad hair days. Right now, I can braid the bangs into the hair and ponytail it at the nape of my neck, but that's about the limit. I really wish I hadn't cut so much off already, and really don't want to chop more.

So, last night... the ends are frazzled again, poofyish, like they got pulled and stretched out. The mask treatment I did has not lasted very long, so I will need to repeat it. I am looking forward to fall, as hats will be my friend, and winter, as toques will be then, but for now, I am trying to do nothing as much as possible.

How are you guys hiding the damage on the really bad days? Anyone use silicone? (I really am a snob about it, but am considering trying the argan oil that Sally's has, it's been highly recommended to me by a few people on pms and I really need to get over that natural only bias I have. I mean, I DID bleach my hair, how natural is that??) So, yeah, even thinking about silicone, but mixed reviews on it and my natural skepticism are still holding me at benign neglect for the most part. And now, the no cutting pact. I am thankful that the hair I have at this point isn't continually breaking, but it still looks funny, and last night, yeah... have to figure out how to not let that happen again.

[palaeoqueen]

I would join you in the no-cutting but my hair is still breaking off and microtrims are doing a lot to improve the overall condition. I'm only microtrimming every other month and will go for longer if I can but I think no more this year might be pushing my luck.

I do use silicones but only really because I only change one thing at a time. And a good thing too, something at the moment is giving me terrible acne and after thinking it was my new face cream I've suddenly realised that it coincides with when I started using my deep conditioner. I really hope that's the culprit identified now, we'll see if the acne goes now I'm discontinuing use. I do have nice silicone-free conditioner waiting to be used but, like I said, one thing at a time!

[alexis917]

@Greenfire: I don't use cones. I do use macadamia oil to hide any frizz and soften up any tangles or dry areas. I'm also incapable of any fancy hairstyles. Cage braids...even French braids, are put of my reach. I always get confused! But I start a twist up on the right side of my fringeand gather up hair until the twist contains about 3/4 of my head. When I reach the left side I use the twist as a section in a three section side braid. It hides any ugly ends. Sorry for any typos, I did this on my phone., and the keyboard is not always cooperative.

[RedheadMistress]

- I have crazy damaged hair from bleaching and dying and now for the first time it feels like healthy hair ! I just modified SMT and wow, it is shiny and soft and manageable and it just feels like healthy hair !!

I'll write the ingredients(mix in microwaveable bowl):
Enough conditioner to cover your hair (I used Head and shoulders conditioner that I found, full bottle)
half a tbs of coconut oil
couple of tbs of mineral oil (i use johnsons baby oil)
a tbs of honey

Microwave it for an hour, wet my hair in the shower, mix this in while it's still warm (not hot!), scrub my body for 10 minutes, then wash it out.
I did a light lemon+water mix rinse too.

So I didn't follow one of the rules here, only doing one new thing at a time, but idk if it's the Head and shoulders conditioner, or the lemon rinse or just All of this at once, but WOW my hair feels and looks way different !
Gonna keep doing this and this Only until the day my hair starts hating it heeh . .

[RedheadMistress]

I made a pact with someone in another thread the other day to not CUT till Christmas. We'll both S&D anything that NEEDS it, but no cutting. I am sooo glad, because yesterday I had a terrible hair day. So bad last night that I know I would have chopped again, and it keeps losing a couple inches every time I do. Mind you, I may have left it to just the bangs, but I can't guarantee that either, so this pact is a saving grace for me.

Anyone else want to join? That's 4 months of growth, so an extra two inches for those who have an average hair growth. (here's hoping a lot of us get more) That two inches will put me with the ability to hide the hair in a lot more styles on really bad hair days. Right now, I can braid the bangs into the hair and ponytail it at the nape of my neck, but that's about the limit. I really wish I hadn't cut so much off already, and really don't want to chop more.

So, last night... the ends are frazzled again, poofyish, like they got pulled and stretched out. The mask treatment I did has not lasted very long, so I will need to repeat it. I am looking forward to fall, as hats will be my friend, and winter, as toques will be then, but for now, I am trying to do nothing as much as possible.

How are you guys hiding the damage on the really bad days? Anyone use silicone? (I really am a snob about it, but am considering trying the argan oil that Sally's has, it's been highly recommended to me by a few people on pms and I really need to get over that natural only bias I have. I mean, I DID bleach my hair, how natural is that??) So, yeah, even thinking about silicone, but mixed reviews on it and my natural skepticism are still holding me at benign neglect for the most part. And now, the no cutting pact. I am thankful that the hair I have at this point isn't continually breaking, but it still looks funny, and last night, yeah... have to figure out how to not let that happen again.


- I definitely want to join the pact ! I keep looking at pics of my old chop from BSL to pixie and if I hadn't done that and just found out about SMT's I would have had near waist hair now !
I've definitely stopped cutting, instead of cutting ends that feel weird and velcroy I just mist them with my mix of an Aveda conditioner and water and then cover the ends in Mineral Oil which makes them feel a million times better and keeps me from wanting to chop them off !
I use silicone, my curls love it. Silicone conditioner and also sometimes I add pure silicone lube when it's wet which my hair loves ! Bad hairdays I just do braids or keep it up in a random messy bun . . after misting it and covering in oil (at least if my hair feels bad it will look shiny and nice)!

This reminds me of a pact I tried making with a friend and housamate of mine, when we feel **** we both do something dramatic with our hairs, like bleach all of it and dye it green, blue, whatever, and I've been sort of sticking to it, before I let myself Dye it, but don't cut it, I can live with damaged lengths instead of No length but she's been worse at stopping herself.. but yeah already been in a half no-cutting-club ! I do a tiny bit of S&D, a couple of hairs every time I notice split ends.

[alexis917]

I would love to join a no-cut pact! I definitely can't lose anymore length if I want to reach my goal- waist by the end of April. I'm really short, so right now I'm at BSL (17 inches) and my waist is about 24 inches. My goal for this time next year is at least bellybutton length (30 inches). I have been S&Ding. So far so good...I'm hoping I won't be tempted to cut off an inch or two!

[spookyghost]

I would join the pact but my damaged hair gets worse-way worse-if I dont trim. I went four months without a trim once only because I was scared to death to go to the hair dresser and my hair paid for it big time! Good luck to everyone whose doing it though!

[Greenfire]

Okay, guys, the no cutting doesn't mean you can't trim off badly damaged pieces, because you have to do that if they look bad, it just means not making big cuts. I swear, I have cut over 8 inches off my hair, and had I known that I could just cut little microtrims while I tried to keep it protected I could wear it a lot more ways. Most recently I cut off another couple of inches, and added layers. I can't help myself, it's so awful. For me, not touching it, other than BARELY, for 4 months, is really going to save me. Redheadmistress, I totally feel your pain about cutting off because it is damaged.

I know my hair is damaged, I do plan on cutting off the damaged areas when they grow out, but that's the thing, they have to grow out first. If I can keep them in decent condition, and protect all the new hair, then I guess I can live with something between shoulder and apl until that happens, but as it is now, a shorter layered bob that just sits on the shoulder, it's difficult, and I am reminded of the issue every time I try to style it. I'm heading to bed, but today, I went to a funeral, and had to do something with it. I put it in rollers and did a kindof retro do, complete with victory roll in the front, I'll post a pic of it tomorrow, so you can see just how much my recent cut took off.

[alexis917]

Do any of you take vitamins to assist hair growth? I need to find out if I can have protein supplements added into my diet, since I eat mainly fish and am trying to transfer into pescetarianism. My doctor already has me taking calcium supplements because I'm really not into dairy, and I'd already hopped on the biotin bandwagon. However, I saw no results, and I took two caplets of biotin daily for about four months.

I am considering Phytophanere Dietary Supplements. Based off the reviews, many people reported faster growth, and nail growth as well, though my nails aren't really important to me.

I'm skeptical after my disappointment with biotin, so I found the ingredients list on Sephora's website.

-Vitamin E (Wheat Germ Oil): Acts as a powerful antioxidant.
-Omegas 3 and 6 (Borage Seed Oil): Increase shine.
-Vitamins B and C and Cystine: Promote healthy hair and nail growth.
-Pro-Vitamin A (Carrot Oil): Helps boost skin's radiance.

Envelope:
Gelatin, Carrot Oil In Sunflower Oil With Rosmary Extract, Acerola Extract Enriched With Vitamin C.
Strengthening:
Glycerin, Borage Seed Oil At 20% GLA, Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Fish Oil, Rice Bran Oil, D,L-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Yeast, Wheat Germ Oil, Calcium Pantothenate.

Emulgator:
Soybean Lecithin (Gluten), Orizanol, Pyridoxine Chlorhydrate, Riboflavine, Biotin, Colors: E 171,E 172, Cereal Flavor.

The only ingredient that I know assists hair growth/condition is the borage seed oil. I couldn't help but notice it contained biotin....I wonder if that really works or it's just a placebo effect thing.

Also...how is "cereal flavor" important? Did they really have to include that?

[loveisdivine]

I'm joining this thread. Heat damage! Everything above the bottom say the bottom 3 inches of my hair is in great condition. Shiny, soft and healthy. Bottom 3 inches however are pretty gross. White dots and splits are the main culprits. I've not flat ironed in 2 months and I've not used the hair dryer in 3 weeks.

I was tempted to chop the bottom 3in off, but then I decided that was crazy, and just to microtrim and S&D. I chopeed about a half inch off instead.

I want to be at least waist be September 2013, for my wedding. Im currently at bottom BSL which is about 26 inches on me. Waist is about another 3 inches for the longest lengths. My shortest layers are only at shoulder so its gonna be ages before they reach waist. I should have a very solid waist (apart from the layers round my face) at 4 inches.

[alexis917]

@loveisdivine: You should definitely reach your goal by your wedding! Good luck. And congratulations on your engagement as well as your heat-styler boycott!

[Greenfire]

Love is Divine, you need to take those ends into very very small sections and twist them, hopefully, the most broken pieces will stick out and you can cut them off. Your ends will end up looking like fairytale ends if the damage is really bad, but it will create a better end for those hairs that are the most damaged.

There is so much mechanically that we do to our hair to hurt it, that we forget what to do to make it strong. Making hair grow faster or not, taking supplements to get what may be missing from your diet is a good idea, it should not only help your hair, but also your skin, nails, and every other cell in your body. Hormones can create interesting hair growth issues, when pregnant, we shed less, so our hair becomes very thick, but then we get a massive shed after, and feel like we're thinning.

Sickness and stress can do it too, and those are both internally, except in the instances of stress making us pull on our hair, or do other mechanical damage to it. Trichotillomania is just one extreme, but even just twirling our hair can hurt it. I am a firm believer in putting good stuff in, and on our bodies, and in our homes and on our planet.

I know that the B vitamins help with stress, so it makes sense that they will also help with hair and nail growth, as the body will rob from one area to feed another, and those of us in today's society are often lacking the right amount of vitamins, so add stress in, and our hair suffers. Omega fatty acids as well, they are very needed for the brain and healthy organs including skin, but hair and nails will be the first place to steal from when we are deprived. I also love to take oils like coconut oil internally, it's not just for oiling your hair! Olive oil, even butter, lol, in small amounts we need some fat in our diet! So IF dieting, be careful not to go too far too fast! (I have a background in healthcare and DO counsel patients with regards to diet, so feel comfortable giving some advice about this, but am NOT an expert, and I do NOT know specifically the micro-physiology of hair growth.)

I WILL say this with regards to monistat. I know that some of the ingredients in it are the same as some of the ingredients in Rogaine. However, these are carriers, so while you may see some increased hair growth from applying it, it is likely due to the added moisture and massage that you are doing stimulating growth, nothing inherently magical in it, so it may not work for you. Acne medication for example, when the medication is removed from the carrier in some subjects, they still found quite a lot of resolution over those using nothing, because it was the moisture allowing the skin to act healthfully and overcome the problem. Not a placebo effect, but not a medicinal effect either. Don't feel bad if it doesn't work for you, it just means you were already healthful before, I would recommend you consider other ways to add the moisturizers to the scalp and include the massage, snowy moon's massage for hair growth is likely to be as beneficial with no stinging and irritation, and safer as well.

[Greenfire]

Okay, here is the pic with my layers added in, it's had rollers put in, so it's really a little longer, but it is still too short to do a lot with, so I really want to take that 4 month break.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/59/88/36/dscn0910.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=6&u=13598836)

[alexis917]

^Your hair actually looks quite healthy! And I love the style. Thank goodness I don't have any curlers/rollers because I know I'd want to try this out.

[Greenfire]

Oh, hahaha, I use socks for rollers!!! Shhh don't tell!

[alexis917]

I tried that a few days ago and just ended up tangling my hair. Sigh... I think I should give it another shot when my layers are closer to my longest length! Anything for no heat styles. Anyways, speaking of length, I'm like half an inch past BSL! :magic: Finally, I thought I was going to be stuck in the bra-strap desert for another month or two! Unfortunately, I noticed this when my hair was wet, and straighter than usual...so it'll probably take another inch or two until "past BSL" actually looks like "past BSL"....

[Greenfire]

What do you guys do when you get your hair tangled really bad? I tend to finger comb mostly, because even though I bought what was a good comb, it has seams on it, and I haven't sanded them off. Earlier I had a couple pieces that were really badly knotted and actually broke off some hair trying to detangle it...

My hair is back to the sticky yucky stage.

[alexis917]

I finger comb like no tomorrow! I feel like combs make it worse.

[rtree721]

When my hair gets really tangled and I can tell that trying to detangle will just rip the hairs out, I get in the shower and put conditioner on it and work at the knots with my fingers very gently. Then I leave it alone until it is dry so I don't do more damage.

[StephanieP3]

I'm trying my best to leave my hair natural, no more dying! i've been dying it on and off since I was about 15 and I'm ready to let it be natural! I haven't dyed it at all in almost 2 years, I'm really proud.

[palaeoqueen]

Yep, fingercomb!