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spookyghost
August 4th, 2012, 11:26 AM
My new hair dresser says that I have build up on my hair that she cant quite figure out. She thought I was using too much oils and asked me if I would stop using them for a month and only use my S&C. Which I did. When I went back in last week she was surprised that I did what she asked and only used S&C because my hair hasnt gotten any better. Oh before I forget to mention I did clarify my hair a week before my hd noticed this build up-which was on my first visit with her.

To me my hair looks damaged and only damaged. It doesnt look oil or limp at all. It looks dry, split, and damaged. I told her that I only see damaged hair that needs to get healthy. And she said that was the build up making my hair look like that. She does agree with me that my hair is damaged but the build up is making it look far more damaged than it is.

O.k. question-is that even possible? Can build up make your hair look damaged? I have been upset and worried about my hair lately. I cant deny that my hair has seen better days and my shedding has increased. I just bought garlic supplements as I heard that it helps decrease hair shedding. I dont know if its true but garlic has many health benefits so it wont hurt taking them.

Oh I also forgot to mention that I have well water and a water softener to get out iron. We have lived at this house for 15 years and besides the normal issues well water may cause I have had no other problems with my hair. She keeps on wondering if clay is getting into our well. We have no problems with health or anything else. Nothing. I dont even see build up, I see damage.

Im sorry this is turning out longer than I wanted it to. I dont want to bore anyone. But just in case it matters I should let you know that I have fine hair longest layer almost bsl. I am growing bleached highlights out and wanted my hair colored back to its normal color-ash blonde. I figured this will help with the dermification. I told my old hd I wanted ash. I got strawberry blonde with the orangish roots:eek: So now I have been getting demi-permanent color in every 6 weeks to cover up the orange. Im also at a cross roads as to what to do about the color. Keep getting demi permanent color every six weeks for 45.00 for the next six years while the awful color grows out or just get a pemanent color and be over with it. My hd doesnt want to use a permenant color. I have stopped using the straightener in Jan. and blow dry on warm. I have to blow dry. I have tried stopping and I feel so completely ugly when it air dries that I have to use it. At least its not on hot and I dont put it up close to my head. I have gotten four inches cut off a year ago and just the ends trimmed since except for last month I had an inch taken off. I cant get my hair cut short. Thats not an option. I look like a man with short hair. I dont have the right facial features for short hair. Besideds even if I were to cut it its going to look the same, damage wise and all, just shorter. I just added all that just in case it was important to know!:)

So I hope I didnt just ramble too much. Do you all think that I may have some build up making my hair look more damaged than it really is? If so what the heck do I do about it. I have clarified already. I have never done the baking soda thing because if the wrong amount is used my hair can get even more damaged. Plus I think you have to do a acv rince afterwards and the smell gags me. Literally gags me.

akilina
August 4th, 2012, 11:35 AM
Do you think this damage could be from previous bleaching or highlights?
I am sort of confused as well.
Could it be too much protein? Are you using any shampoo/conditioner/ DTs that have a ton of protein?
Usually I find build up to look greasy, or waxy.
Hair with too much moisture could appear really strung out and stretchy. That hair would need protein, but yours is not like that.
The only thing that makes sense to me is too much protein causing hair to be brittle and break off.

ravenreed
August 4th, 2012, 11:49 AM
I have had build up that takes a few tries to get rid of. If it is your S&C causing the problem, clarifying won't do much good if you immediately use the same products. Have you tried switching products? Also, you can add just a 1/4 of a teaspoon of BS to your shampoo, and instead of rinsing with vinegar, try rinsing with lemon juice mixed in water. The ACV or lemon juice are to counteract the base in baking soda. Hair likes to be slightly acidic.

Out of curiosity, is there protein in your shampoo or conditioner? It goes by many sneaky names, but protein can cause all sorts of trouble for some of us. It makes my hair snap off and makes it feel coated and icky.

Curly Crone
August 4th, 2012, 12:05 PM
What kind of shampoo and conditioner do you use? I was CO'ing with Suave Coconut conditioner for over 6 weeks with good results and then all of a sudden my hair was stiff and crunchy and felt weird. I didn't realize that "Silk Amino Acid" was protein and eventually my hair got enough and rebelled. I still use the conditioner but limit it and my hair is now back to feeling better.

jeanniet
August 4th, 2012, 12:12 PM
A water softener won't remove iron unless it has a combined iron filter--softeners remove calcium (causes the hardness). We don't have a softener, but do have an iron filter, although it doesn't remove 100% of the iron. It might be worthwhile to do a chelating shampoo (Joico makes one) to see if that makes a difference.

spookyghost
August 4th, 2012, 12:19 PM
Well my hd thinks my hair needs protein. I thought it needed moisture but she has alot more knowledge about hair then me! I have tried doing the hair strand test to see what my hair needs but its hard to tell. I think it snaps and needs moisture but my hair has color over bleach highlights which does sound like it would need protein.

She suggested I buy a protein S&C that they sell at the salon. Which I bought and I would tell you which one it is but I dont know if this is the brand that I have heard people say test on animals and if it is I dont want to upset anyone and have them lecture me on that subject. But she noticed this build up before I used the protein S&C. Before that I was using jason organic biotin shampoo and condish and experimenting with cwc.

Im pretty confused right now. When I found this site all I wanted was to grow my hair to waist and get healthy hair. But I havent found a hair regimen that works for me and my hair is a train wreck right now. If I only knew what my hair needs and loves I wouldnt mind it taking long to get healthy. The wait wouldnt be that bad if I knew as long as I did xyz it would get there eventually.

I can try another S&C and see if she thinks its better next time I go. It still can be the s&c. I never thought my hair needed protein but right now I have no idea what my hair needs. My hair did not like Maine and Tail and I think that has some protein in it. It dried out my hair. My hair doesnt like coconut oil either. And about 5 months ago I tried a protein pack from Sallys and my hair looked awful after that. I cant remember the name but its a popular one that I think someone on the boards said has the consistency of eggs.

Its a mystery! Oh I almost forgot. She said my hair has a smell. She has one other client that has issues with her hair and her hair smells just like mine! Great. Thats nice. She also has well water. But lives on the other side of the county. When I smelled my hair I smelled hair thats been in the hot sun. Do you know what I mean? I sat outside for lunch at work in the sun for 40 minutes and it was about 90 degrees and my hair just had that outside hot smell to it. I dont know if we were smelling the same thing. Weird huh?

spookyghost
August 4th, 2012, 12:25 PM
A water softener won't remove iron unless it has a combined iron filter--softeners remove calcium (causes the hardness). We don't have a softener, but do have an iron filter, although it doesn't remove 100% of the iron. It might be worthwhile to do a chelating shampoo (Joico makes one) to see if that makes a difference.

Wow. Have I been buyin iron out water softener salt and its not even helping? Great. I dont think our water softener has a filter. Wouldnt that be a hoot if it does and we are too stupid to figure it out! So if you dont have a softener but you have an iron filter where does the filter go? Is this expensive?

palaeoqueen
August 4th, 2012, 12:29 PM
I agree with those who think you might have protein overload. I would try ditching anything containing protein and use some good moisturising shampoo and condish and see where that leaves you.

Curly Crone
August 4th, 2012, 12:32 PM
My hair hates protein and also coconut oil too. Was your hair as bad before you started using the shampoo/conditioner from the salon?

spookyghost
August 4th, 2012, 01:04 PM
My hair hates protein and also coconut oil too. Was your hair as bad before you started using the shampoo/conditioner from the salon?

Yes. I cant tell if it got any worse but I can tell you it hasnt gotten any better. I know as far as damage goes that has to grow out but it is possible to at least make it lay better or at least look a little softer, etc. My hair does not look any better at all.

spookyghost
August 4th, 2012, 01:09 PM
I agree with those who think you might have protein overload. I would try ditching anything containing protein and use some good moisturising shampoo and condish and see where that leaves you.

Im thinking of doing this. It would be nice to try a moisturizing shampoo and condish without my hd knowing it and seeing if she notices a change for the good. I have no idea if I should use sulfates and cones. My hair is damaged so using them might disquise some of that which I am all for. Maybe I should use them so I dont get any xtra build up.

Its a little depressing that since I have started taking care of my hair and striving to get it healthy it has never looked worse! The irony.

Amber_Maiden
August 4th, 2012, 01:13 PM
Well, buildup sometimes makes my ends look pretty bad.... but that's about it.

lilliemer
August 4th, 2012, 02:02 PM
I kind of wonder if your hairdresser is trying to sell you lots of the salon products.

Maybe just go super simple, clarify with neutrogena or joico or some other simple drugstore brand then do an smt with cheap silicone free conditioner. See if that helps. I have read many times that if you can't tell if you need moisture or protein, start with moisture. Then you won't risk damaging already over protein'ed hair with more protein.

If the deep moisture treatment doesnt help maybe you can do a really gentle protein treatment like diluted yoghurt or low fat coconut milk. Things with lots of ingredients are probably not your friend as you try to diagnose what's going on with your hair an what to do about it.

palaeoqueen
August 4th, 2012, 02:19 PM
Im thinking of doing this. It would be nice to try a moisturizing shampoo and condish without my hd knowing it and seeing if she notices a change for the good. I have no idea if I should use sulfates and cones. My hair is damaged so using them might disquise some of that which I am all for. Maybe I should use them so I dont get any xtra build up.

Its a little depressing that since I have started taking care of my hair and striving to get it healthy it has never looked worse! The irony.

I had the exact same protein (though without a stylist's input). I was being so much kinder to my hair yet the condition was getting worse and worse. It turned out I was using spoo/condish that were loaded with protein plus coconut oil. I switched to a moisturising spoo/condish and argan oil and the difference is incredible.

Greenfire
August 4th, 2012, 03:24 PM
I have no answers for you, just wanted to commiserate with you. I overprocessed my hair with a few too many semi permanents after stripping all the colour out before my hd decided to finally use a demi, which finally took. It's close to what my hair looked like when I was getting it highlighted, but not at all what my roots look like coming in and I'm super scared to do anything to it, for fear I'll have to cut it all off. So I'm doing nothing. I started with no 'poo, and am partway now between water only and no water/sebum only for hopes that using no processes or chemicals on my hair it just might coat it enough to keep me from having to cut it. At the very least, it can't get worse than it is now.

I plan to grow out my colour, not do a darn thing to it in the meantime. Though I'm scared of the handling you need to do to the hair to keep it clean in the NW/SO way, I still think for me it's worth a shot. I'm going to lurk on what you're up to though, considering that maybe you'll come up with something that works better, that sounds good to me! I don't like the idea of masking damage under silicones though, as hair often gets worse without you knowing it soon enough to stop what you're doing before it's too late. I also don't like the idea of not really washing my hair, but if it lets me keep it without cutting it, I'll try.

spookyghost
August 4th, 2012, 05:18 PM
lilliemer-I did notice all the hair dresssers at this salon pushing the hair products. I do understand that they are just doing what they are told and I would have just passed on the products but when she kept on saying how she thinks my hair needs protein and not moisture and that it has this build up on it, I figured that I can always try it and maybe it would work and help my hair. Plus I bought this protein deep treatment from the salon that I was using 1-2 times a week. Im pretty sure she is really trying to help me. I dont have complete trust yet though. One reason is because whenver I talk about some of the wonderful advice on this site she kinda blows it off. She's not interested in anything I have to say about this site. Like its hoakie or something. But she at least got my color right so she's all I got so far.

Amber maiden-I wish it was only my ends that look bad! Your probably like-what?! Haha. My hair is nice from my part to about three inches down. Then its nasty as all get out!

Palaequeen-I might as well go for the new poo and condish experiment! I mean what do I have to lose? Well my hair is shedding way too much for me for me to asking that sarcastic question!:p Not that there is ever a good time for hair to shed too much but what bad timing for this to happen now. Only because it could be related to my build up and it can also be a coincidence. Im pretty sure the increase shedding started before my hd brought up my build up situation. But who knows.

Greenfire-We can definately commiserate together!:) My hair really did look so much better before I started taking care of it. I mean what the heck!:( Beside this mystery build up thing I got going on the messed up hair color I got just made my hair lay down and say uncle. It just made everything I had been doing good for my hair go right out the door. I know I made the decision to color my hair which I know isnt good for it. But I knew I couldnt grow out my bleach highlights without it because of how bad the dermification would look. So I figured that getting my hair colored back to my natural color, ash blonde, would be a good idea because it would be my last color. If I didnt go back to my natural color then I would be getting it highlighted all the time so one more color seemed like the lesser of two evils. So when I saw strawberry blonde and an orangish color from my part to three inches down I almost died. Not only because of how bad it looked. But at that instant I knew that was not going to be my last color because it wasnt even close to ash blonde. But my hd doesnt want to do a permanent color on me. I asked her if it is because it would damage my hair way too bad and that basically wasnt it. She kept on saying that the color would never match up perfectly and I would still have to keep getting my roots done. But the color difference might not be that bad right? At least its ash on ash and not orange on ash! But lets think of where I stand right now. I am paying 45-50.00 every time I get a demi done. About every 5-6 weeks. My longest layer is bsl. I will have to keep getting demi's done every 5 weeks for about 5 years because thats about how long it will take for this all to grow out. Can you imagine how much that will add up to?

I am completely with you on not cutting your hair. That will never be an option for me. Never. What is your natural color and what color are you growing out? I give you so much credit for just letting it grow out. Lets definately keep in touch and if either one of us finds something that helps our desperate hair we have to let the other one know. I do realize that what works for one person may not work for everyone but I'll try anything! Right now s&c every day is working best. I know weird huh? I washing every day because if I go every other day my shed is almost triple! If wake up too late to do my hair before work I will wash it when I get home because of how much I shed if I dont wash every day. I have so many dang hair issues I cant stand it! Im so low key and my hair has become so dang high maintenance. And the kicker is that the maintenance has increased and my hair looks like poop!:wail:

ravenreed
August 4th, 2012, 05:42 PM
Yeah, I bet it is protein overload. Both the Jason's shampoo and conditioner have protein in them, as far as I can tell from an internet search. So you probably already had protein overload when you saw her. The natural lines usually have protein in them, which is why I stopped looking for anything in the health food stores.

Just because your hair dresser has studied hair doesn't mean that she is an expert in YOUR hair. It took me about six months to figure out what my hair likes. Since then it has been smooth sailing, but there have been a few disasters along the way. Even if a hair dresser or even LHC members recommend something, your hair may still freak out over it (AVG and SMT's were both disasters for my hair, for instance). Give it some time.


Well my hd thinks my hair needs protein. I thought it needed moisture but she has alot more knowledge about hair then me! I have tried doing the hair strand test to see what my hair needs but its hard to tell. I think it snaps and needs moisture but my hair has color over bleach highlights which does sound like it would need protein.

She suggested I buy a protein S&C that they sell at the salon. Which I bought and I would tell you which one it is but I dont know if this is the brand that I have heard people say test on animals and if it is I dont want to upset anyone and have them lecture me on that subject. But she noticed this build up before I used the protein S&C. Before that I was using jason organic biotin shampoo and condish and experimenting with cwc.

Im pretty confused right now. When I found this site all I wanted was to grow my hair to waist and get healthy hair. But I havent found a hair regimen that works for me and my hair is a train wreck right now. If I only knew what my hair needs and loves I wouldnt mind it taking long to get healthy. The wait wouldnt be that bad if I knew as long as I did xyz it would get there eventually.

I can try another S&C and see if she thinks its better next time I go. It still can be the s&c. I never thought my hair needed protein but right now I have no idea what my hair needs. My hair did not like Maine and Tail and I think that has some protein in it. It dried out my hair. My hair doesnt like coconut oil either. And about 5 months ago I tried a protein pack from Sallys and my hair looked awful after that. I cant remember the name but its a popular one that I think someone on the boards said has the consistency of eggs.

Its a mystery! Oh I almost forgot. She said my hair has a smell. She has one other client that has issues with her hair and her hair smells just like mine! Great. Thats nice. She also has well water. But lives on the other side of the county. When I smelled my hair I smelled hair thats been in the hot sun. Do you know what I mean? I sat outside for lunch at work in the sun for 40 minutes and it was about 90 degrees and my hair just had that outside hot smell to it. I dont know if we were smelling the same thing. Weird huh?

ravenreed
August 4th, 2012, 05:47 PM
When looking for something protein free, keep an eye out for ingredients like amino acids, keratin, collagen, silk, soy protein... I am sure there are others that I can't think of at the moment.

Wildcat Diva
August 4th, 2012, 06:11 PM
Could you try a SMT? It is a moisture deep treatment with three ingredients. It's cheap and makes a big difference for some. There is a thread about it.

jeanniet
August 4th, 2012, 06:45 PM
Wow. Have I been buyin iron out water softener salt and its not even helping? Great. I dont think our water softener has a filter. Wouldnt that be a hoot if it does and we are too stupid to figure it out! So if you dont have a softener but you have an iron filter where does the filter go? Is this expensive?

Hmmm, I don't know if the iron out would make a big difference. It probably depends on the level of iron in your water. You could bring a water sample in to a well company and have them test it for you. We have a rented filter because buying a filter is expensive, sp the company comes out and exchanges the cartridge monthly. It's outside where the water enters the hous.

spookyghost
August 4th, 2012, 07:28 PM
Yeah, I bet it is protein overload. Both the Jason's shampoo and conditioner have protein in them, as far as I can tell from an internet search. So you probably already had protein overload when you saw her. The natural lines usually have protein in them, which is why I stopped looking for anything in the health food stores.

Just because your hair dresser has studied hair doesn't mean that she is an expert in YOUR hair. It took me about six months to figure out what my hair likes. Since then it has been smooth sailing, but there have been a few disasters along the way. Even if a hair dresser or even LHC members recommend something, your hair may still freak out over it (AVG and SMT's were both disasters for my hair, for instance). Give it some time.

Holy cow, I had no idea protein was in the Jason shampoo and condish! Thanks for letting me know that:D I guess I will eventually find what works for my hair it just seems to be taking so long! I joined LHC in March and Im still waiting. Im trying to be patient because I think thats the whole key to healthy long hair. I will say one thing. When I finally find what works for my hair and it gets healthy, I will be able to encourage other people who feel that their hair is hopeless.:)

Greenfire
August 4th, 2012, 08:40 PM
Don't do what I did when my hair started turning orange, and don't think you can get ash over it either whatever you do, it's where my hd screwed up the first time. We bleached to a 10, but then she kept trying to put in 8 and 9, but nothing was sticking. We then went to a 7 and still no stick, so then a 6... it all washed out and I ended up with hair that looked kinda silvery but still pretty darn white. When she finally went to a demi, she put it in as lowlights, which I thought would hide the demarcation nicely too, but no, then she toned over it with the same colour and washed it mostly out. I would guess I'm around a level 8 maybe? My natural looks like it's growing in as a 6, but I always had a California blonde thing going on as a kid with darker roots and lighter lengths. I'm just going to let it be what it wants to be.

One thing we have going for us is that ombre hair is in and in about 6 months to a year it'll look like we did it on purpose! I'm going to see if I can hold out till then. I can't do highlights in the virgin hair as it grows because I just don't ever want to be here again. Ever. I think I'll probably try to keep cutting it at it grows out, and thankfully my hair grows fast.. but yes, as soon as I'm past my 25 posts and we can be friends lets do it!

bo-peep
August 4th, 2012, 09:02 PM
What kind of shampoo and conditioner do you use? I was CO'ing with Suave Coconut conditioner for over 6 weeks with good results and then all of a sudden my hair was stiff and crunchy and felt weird. I didn't realize that "Silk Amino Acid" was protein and eventually my hair got enough and rebelled. I still use the conditioner but limit it and my hair is now back to feeling better.
Same thing happened to me! I wondered what was going on... At first my hair really responded nicely to CO washing then went dry and tangly all of a sudden.

Thanks!

palaeoqueen
August 5th, 2012, 07:34 AM
Oh I remember now you posting about getting your bleach coloured over and it turning orange. This any not apply to you and I don't want you to panic but I just wanted to say a word of warning about the demi-permanents you're having put on at the moment. Back in December I was in the same position as you, wanting to cover up bleach blonde with my natural dark ash blonde. My stylist at the time suggested a demi (she actually called it a semi but I know now that it was a demi). She repeatedly assured me that it couldn't possibly affect my natural roots I had at the time but it did and now I have not only the bleach to grow out (as the demi eventually washed out from that hair) but I also have a couple of inches of hair that used to be virgin but has been left a gingery colour after the demi washed out where it was lightened by the developer.

I would strongly recommend that you only have the demi colour applied to the coloured lengths of your hair if possible and not your virgin roots as they come through as you may eventually find that you still have colour to grow out.

Greenfire
August 5th, 2012, 08:12 AM
Yes Paleo, I have that too, and for the exact same reason... :(

palaeoqueen
August 5th, 2012, 10:11 AM
Yes Paleo, I have that too, and for the exact same reason... :(

Looks like there's a few of us in the same position, even down to the colours we're trying to grow out :( We should have a support group :lol:

coneyisland
August 5th, 2012, 09:20 PM
I have stopped using the straightener in Jan. and blow dry on warm.

My hair is nice from my part to about three inches down. Then its nasty as all get out!

since I have started taking care of my hair and striving to get it healthy it has never looked worse! The irony.
 
Your observations there should make sense to you. It is because damaged hair necessarily remains at least as damaged. As its structural integrity is compromised, all else being equal, further damage follows even more easily.

You have fine hair. Besides its having been subjected to heat straightening, bleaching, and dyeing, it is still subjected to daily blowfrying. Even absent overheating, blowfrying blasts needed moisture out of your hair and further wears on your cuticles (and whatever hair structure remains under where bits of cuticle are severely damaged or missing) by making for so much friction against other hairs. Blowfrying can also cause tangling, resolution of which makes for even more friction and potential for breakage and other damage. It is my understanding too that even the rate at which wet hair dries can make the difference of its cuticles cracking.
 
 

She said my hair has a smell. She has one other client that has issues with her hair and her hair smells just like mine! Great. Thats nice. She also has well water. But lives on the other side of the county. When I smelled my hair I smelled hair thats been in the hot sun. Do you know what I mean?

No, I am not familiar with that smell. I have heard of hair that is badly heat damaged having some persistent characteristic smell that is refreshed (or intensified) by either heating or wetting. I have also heard of its apparently changing the scent/s of hair care products applied thereon.
 
 

I sat outside for lunch at work in the sun for 40 minutes and it was about 90 degrees and my hair just had that outside hot smell to it.

Bleaching by any means, even by direct or reflected sunlight, is still bleaching, still is sufficient to make for some (more) damage. Your older hair would likely be especially susceptible to sun bleaching damage for its having been so damaged by other means already.

I strongly recommend that you lose the blowfryer; lose the hairdresser/s; make determined effort to go sebum only or (cool to tepid) water only in your hair care, but if you absolutely must use shampoo instead, load your hair with moisturizing treatments (but take care not to overmoisturize!) and also load your hair after with very coney conditioner; and keep your hair protected from sunshine and wind. [If you stick with shampooing and you decide to go cone-free in your regimen, then go sulfate-free too, as the sulfate-free shampoos are less drying; but keep up your moisturizing too.]

Tizzles
August 5th, 2012, 10:44 PM
Echoing everyone else saying you probably have protein build up. I've been there, done that and I had a lot of the same problems as you. I had to go completely protein free for like 3 months to fix the mess than overloading with protein did to my hair. Now I use a low sulfate shampoo that has some protein in it, but that's the only protein I put in my hair. For now my hair is better after doing serious moisture treatments, and just using a shampoo with a small amount of protein in it. My conditioner (Sebastian Moisture Conditioner) has no protein but it does have cones, I figured if I went with a protein enriched conditioner it would send my hair over the top again and knock the balance out.

I apparently get enough protein for my hair on my own without a lot of additives. Maybe try CO'ing with a non protein conditioner, using some shampoo like Suave or something once a week to keep build up down, and just leave the hair alone for the rest of the time? It's what I did when I was fixing mine and it worked but YMMV. Coneyisland has a lot of good tips for you too. I couldn't do WO washing on my hair, so I thought I'd just chime in with how I fixed it.

spookyghost
August 6th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Hi everyone! I havent been on here for a couple days. My anniversary was yesterday and my birthday is today so dh and I were doing a little celebrating!:bottomsup:

wildcat diva-I want to try the smt but I have to read up on it a little more first. I read a little about it and I thought some people had a problem with the honey or another ingredient. I think one of the ingredients acted like a protein and I sure dont want any more protein! And if thats the case then I'll need to make a substitution for that ingredient. Thanks for the suggestion!

jeanniet-we had our water tested by a well company and they were the ones that suggested the iron out salt for our softener. They didnt recommend a filter though-I wonder why?:confused: Any way its worth looking into!

greenfire-Thank goodness for ombre hair!:) Truthfully, I live in such a small town I dont know if anyone knows what that is here! Maybe I'll be a trend setter! Ha. Before I had my high lights put in the rest of my hair was its natural color-ash blonde. Now I know this is going to be hard to believe-are you sitting down? I really had no idea that high lights were bleach. I know how stupid that sounds but before I found LHC I jus thought high lights were just a lighter color added to your hair!:thud:
Hey-no one has ever accused me of being a genious! You are so lucky your hair grows fast. My hair may grow average, Im not sure. It seems slow to me! Oh we definately have to be friends! All us bleach damaged protein build up people have to stick together!;)

palaeoqueen-Yup thats me! When I first went to my new hd with my orangy hair she said that when dealing with the color ash if there are any metalics in the color it will turn the hair orangy/strawberry blonde. She thinks thats what happened but of course she doesnt know for sure. Now the demi permanent she is using is great. I love it. Its ash for sure. My only complaint is that it only lasts 5-6 weeks and the cost and time put into the upkeep is, well lets say it-poopy!:poop: I hope that didnt grose you out, I have always wanted to use that smilie! Oh we should have a support group! My hair can be mentally draining.

coneyisland-Well if I was half as knowledgable as you I probably wouldnt be in this mess:p Did you learn everything by trial and error? You gave some wonderful advice. I do have to shampoo and condition. I did try CO and it worked a little for a little bit and then it just went down hill. I looked like I had poor hygeine. I gave it a while too which wasnt easy let me tell you. Wo and sebum only I have no desire to try. Probably because I tend to have somewhat of an oily scalp. I was down to every other day hair washes but now that I shed more when I do that I am back to washing every day. I am doing everything I am comfortable with to help my hair. I might give air drying another go but I was almost border line depressed that last time I did that. I did last four months without the dryer but air dried hair is so unattractive on me. I hated to look at myself in the mirror. Now I know many people believe any form of the hair dryer is evil. I get the feeling you also believe that. But the fact that I do use it on warm, boderline cool, and I dont put it right up to my head has to count for something. It has to be better than being on hot right on my head.:pray:

tizzles-I just started using one and only argon oil moisturizing S&C. I got it from Sallys. And today I used macadamia hair repair mask. I did let my hair air dry today because I took some vaction for my anniversary and bday so I didnt have to work. In fact I dont work tomarrow so I'll let it air dry tomarrow too. I am beginning to really think my hair is on protein overload. I eat very healthy and alot of protein so maybe my hair has all it needs from what I eat. Hmm. It might. Now did you just have a feeling that your hair was getting too much protein and that made you cut back on using products with protein in it? Im just wondering because it took you three months before you saw results and Im wondering what made you wait that long? See that is what makes me nervous. I know I have to fix my problem and whatever I try I will give it time. But if Im not positive about my hair getting too much protein how long do I give this to see if Im right? I dont think I would have waited that long. Maybe two months tops before I thought I should give something else a try. Thank goodness you waited three months or you would have gone on to trying something else.

ETA: Coneyisland-I was thinking that on the weekends or days I dont work, I can let my hair air dry. Maybe if I take baby steps I can get into it full time again!

Greenfire
August 6th, 2012, 07:32 PM
I don't know about the protein thing, because from what I have seen, bleaching removes protein from hair, and it's the lack of protein that has kept colour from taking in my hair properly.

By the way, I'm not convinced about the sebum only, with having to preen the hair so heavily and my fine hair, it was falling apart while I was trying to move the sebum around. I think I'm going to do my best to stretch washes, and even then, I think I'll use hardly any shampoo, (mine already is sls free, which yes, I agree, as it doesn't remove all the sebum) but try using a lot of conditioning rinses. I read the catnip article last night by ktani, I definitely want to check that one out, as tea rinses so far have left my hair feeling the nicest. I also want to try the smt... maybe we should start a new support group! We can post month by month pics in it.. I'm going to go check them out and see how and link in here...

By the way, great advice from people in here so far!!!

ravenreed
August 6th, 2012, 07:44 PM
For years I have used hair dyes that lift color (i.e. bleach), and still my hair hates protein with a passion. Everyone's hair is different. That is what makes hair care so tricky!

My hair falls out pretty easily with too much manipulation too. How about CO? My hair loves it, but not everyone has had great luck with it.


I don't know about the protein thing, because from what I have seen, bleaching removes protein from hair, and it's the lack of protein that has kept colour from taking in my hair properly.

By the way, I'm not convinced about the sebum only, with having to preen the hair so heavily and my fine hair, it was falling apart while I was trying to move the sebum around. I think I'm going to do my best to stretch washes, and even then, I think I'll use hardly any shampoo, (mine already is sls free, which yes, I agree, as it doesn't remove all the sebum) but try using a lot of conditioning rinses. I read the catnip article last night by ktani, I definitely want to check that one out, as tea rinses so far have left my hair feeling the nicest. I also want to try the smt... maybe we should start a new support group! We can post month by month pics in it.. I'm going to go check them out and see how and link in here...

By the way, great advice from people in here so far!!!

Greenfire
August 6th, 2012, 07:56 PM
Undoing Our Damages Support Group (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=2250349#post2250349)

I was going to call it Going Virgin, but not sure you guys didn't want to still colour along the way??? Speaking for myself, this is my goal.. just don't want to be here again.

SunlightShines
August 6th, 2012, 08:31 PM
I can't use protein on my hair either. I get frizzy, brittle hair & then shed like crazy.

spookyghost
August 7th, 2012, 05:03 AM
Greenfire-so your color isnt taking because of a lack of protein? Wow. To say everyones hair is different is an understatement! I have been thinking of doing the catnip rinse too:D I have to read up on it. I did the rooibo tea rinse and my hair didnt feel good or look good after I tried that. I dont know if the catnip will have the same effect or not. I think Im going to hold off for a while. I just started using the one and only argon oil s&c and I think I should only try one thing out at a time. I really need to find a s&c that works for me. And I really do want to do pics. I have no idea how to get pics on here and Im pretty computer challanged. Hopefully hubby can do it.

raven reed-Isnt it funny how different everyones hair is? You have the perfect hair that you would think would need protein and your hair hates it! Im wondering if thats whats going on with my hair. My hd is going by the book if you know what I mean. She sees that I have bleach highlights and color and of course damaged hair. She assumes I need protein. But my hair may be like yours.

sunlightshines-I wonder if the protein is making my hair shed like crazy! I can only hope-wow, I never thought I'd say that! Because what an easy fix that would be!

Greenfire
August 7th, 2012, 08:33 AM
I totally cheat when I'm posting pics up, I have a pet forum that has picture hosting software right in it, so just open it in a new tab and click host a picture. I'll see if I can get you some good instructions from the picture hosting site we use, it's super simple....

http://www.servimg.com/index.php?lang=en

This is where you go to do it, but I can't see how to sign up for it, because I'm already signed up it doesn't show me. For me, I can just log in and then it says choose photo. I click the one I want and it gives me the code and resizes the picture for forum posts automatically, I just paste in here. Other file share groups allow you to upload photos and then you can use them to post in here, but it's not quite as simple.

Another photosharing program is called imgur, it's super easy to use, you just click and drag your photo to the page and then click upload and post the link. Forums don't always allow you to use imgur for img tags, but just to post the link it works...

coneyisland
August 7th, 2012, 09:32 PM
I think blowfryers are fine for some purposes. Wrapping oneself in a blanket and briefly running a blowfryer under it is a good way to get comfortably warm in a cold environment. Blowfryers are also good for accelerating drying of little spot-cleaned areas of rugs.

I suspect that your principal problem with the look of your own hair naturally air-dried is that you are not accustomed to seeing it that way. Yes, blowfrying may make damage less noticeable (*for a time*), but it can adversely affect hair condition by overdrying, causing friction and tangling, and compounding already existing damage.

About hair's having some sun, some wind, some alteration of color, and being worn down and loose -- I am not nearly so obsessed about hair condition (generally) that I do not think it is okay to live a little, so to speak. I have the same wish for your hair that you have, for your older hair to last (attached under your newer hair) and keep a length tolerable for you for the time it will take for your newer hair to make it to your goal length. Because of your fine strand type and what your older hair has endured already, that achievement will take dedicated babying on your part. It is entirely up to you to decide whether reaching your goal of having waist length healthy hair, with your older hair intact along the way, is worth forgoing the short-lived satisfactions you get from your blowfrying habit.


But she noticed this build up before I used the protein S&C. Before that I was using jason organic biotin shampoo and condish and experimenting with cwc.

Please read through this post by luxepiggy, #9 on this thread linked here.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=96117
 

jextxadore
August 8th, 2012, 08:45 AM
I haven't read everyone else's replies, but the standard procedure when something goes wrong with a computer is to disable everything and re-enable things one at a time until something goes wrong —*then you know it's probably that that's triggering it.

So I'd suggest not using any products for a few days (just to have a clear slate), then add one product a day until you have your full set back. A week later, you'll probably have found out what's going on.

heidi w.
August 8th, 2012, 10:37 AM
So the clarifying didn't resolve your problem..... hmmmm. Um, maybe try clarifying one more time and see if that works.

You might be using too much oil, actually. That's a fairly common problem. I am assuming you use oil, but am not sure. Do you use conditioner?Ihope that you do.

That's all I really have to suggest to you. Buildup doesn't really look like anything. It's more that hair suddenly stops being what it always has been. It's usually more tangly, and that kind of thing.

heidi w.

spidermom
August 8th, 2012, 10:40 AM
Buildup will often make my hair seem very dry and brittle.

spookyghost
August 9th, 2012, 03:14 PM
Hi all!

Coneyisland-I agree 100% that I am not accustomed to the way my hair looks air dried. And the fact that my hair is damaged and not healthy adds to my hatred of my air dried hair! If my hair was healthy I might actually love it air dried. As much as I dream for healthy hair I can only be so strict with my hair care. I know thats awful but I cant help it right now. Im doing the best I can which is a million times better than what I was doing to it last year at this time. Thanks so much for the post by luxepiggy! Very educational and interesting!:D

Jextxadore-Thank you! Thats very good advice that I am doing right now anyways. Probably because Im not doing too much at all with my hair right now. I did buy a moisturizing shampoo and conditioner. Thats all that I am using right now. So we will see!

Heide w-Your input and advice means alot to me. Your hair is beautiful and your knowledge is off the charts!:applause You mentioned that build-up doesnt really look like anything its just that your hair stops acting normal-basically. The only time I ever thought my hair wasnt acting like it usually does is after I got the color from hell. Where I asked for ash blonde and got the strawberry/orangy color. My hair was then tangly and straw like. Then a month and a half later I got the demi-perm. ash color and my hair didnt feel great but not as bad as before. Before all that color hoopla my hair was acting pretty normal. Oh except for an increase in shedding. That started happening in April. I have switched to a moisturizing shampoo and conditioner. And once a week I use the macadamia hair repair mask which I do like alot. I am going to clarify again before my next demi and see how that goes. I almost forgot to mention. I do oil my hair. I havent for about six weeks now since this build-up situation has all come about. But before I was using jamaican black castor oil on the roots and almond oil on the length. Then I started using emu oil on roots and almond on the length. I didnt do a soak or anything but my hair did look greasy-before I washed not after. I would like to go back to oiling because I just really enjoyed it. It was kinda relaxing and theraputic if you know what I mean. I felt like I was really doing something special to my hair. I hope it wasnt what cause this whole mess! Wouldnt that just figure!:lol:

Spidermom-After you clarify does your hair look and feel better? It probably does and your hear is probably super healthy. I love your hair!:)

Messyhair
August 9th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Holy cow... I just realized after reading this thread that my ongoing dry hair problems might be due to protein. I'll have to read my product labels to be sure, then try switching things up...

spookyghost
August 9th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Holy cow... I just realized after reading this thread that my ongoing dry hair problems might be due to protein. I'll have to read my product labels to be sure, then try switching things up...

Could be! But of course Im sure you can tell that Im not expert on hair care!:lol: Do you use a protein shampoo or conditioner? Or do protein treatments? Im just curious.

SpinDance
August 10th, 2012, 08:39 AM
spookyghost it sounds like you've got several things going on:

1) Possible protein issues, either overload or your hair just doesn't like it.
2) Dye issues.
3) Damage.

As has already been said, hairdressers may have studied a lot, and may know a lot of things, but they don't know your hair like you do. My hairdresser back when I went to one also suggested S&C with protein. I found that it was fine if I used it now and again, sort of alternating with other S&C's. After finding LHC I realized that I was alternating protein with no-protein. Since I've realized my hair doesn't need additional protein most of the time. Now if I think it might be helpful I'll use a bit of conditioner with protein in it when I wash. Say every 6 months or so perhaps?

Also, it is your hair, not your hairdressers. She provides you a service, you may take or not take her advice as you see fit. She sees your hair once in a while, you deal with it every day. You are the only one in a position to really evaluate your hair and how it reacts to things. Sure, ask opinions, but the decisions are always yours.

I noticed you said that you have gotten moisturizing S&C, but also that you are using a mask weekly. Many deep treatments have protein and some are for "damage" not moisture. Not saying yours isn't good, I've no idea, just keep in mind that you have now changed several things at one time and thus won't know which is having the most effect without additional testing over time. Not a problem, just slower to get complete answers.

Dye and damage I'll comment on together, because dye does damage, and you've already got it. Some folks have figured out ways to dye their hair without significant damage. Whether you can do that is I think yet to be determined. Also, I can't tell whether you plan to keep dying your hair or if the goal long term is to go back to your natural color.

I fully understand not wanting to have your hair short. I certainly don't. So, that means that certain options are not available to you, such as just cutting it all off short and starting over. Some folks have happily done that. I didn't. I had my hair dyed for 3.5 years, after first getting it dyed sort of on a lark. Seemed like a good idea at the time, something different. But the every 6 weeks upkeep! Yikes, and expensive. And damaging. After 3.5 years the decision of how to transition/stop dying became moot for me. I had a reaction to the dye that caused a sore on my head. I've got enough allergies that was it. Cold turkey no more dye. It was tough for a while, with the grey roots, but I just shrugged and knew I was doing the right thing *for me*. You'll figure out the right thing to do for you. No one else can.

And one last thing. You have your hair typed as 1a, yet you don't like how it looks unless you blow it dry. Um, huh? 1a hair doesn't do funky things, it hangs straight. If yours doesn't, then it probably isn't. :) Speaking as a 2 with wonky discontiguous waves, if you have frizz or motion in your hair then you probably have a whole other category to consider.

With the dye and other damage you may not be able to tell your natural wave structure until that is grown out. (It will be another 3 years or so for me to get natural all the way to the ends, so I understand that frustration.)

Tisiloves
August 10th, 2012, 09:13 AM
And one last thing. You have your hair typed as 1a, yet you don't like how it looks unless you blow it dry. Um, huh? 1a hair doesn't do funky things, it hangs straight. If yours doesn't, then it probably isn't. :) Speaking as a 2 with wonky discontiguous waves, if you have frizz or motion in your hair then you probably have a whole other category to consider.


Unless you are at flip length, because flip length on type 1 hair is awful and lasts forever (or at least seems to).

spookyghost
August 10th, 2012, 11:29 AM
SpinDance-I certainly have all three of those issues going on dont I? I have concluded that my hair does not like protein. And it just may be on protein overload if my hair doesnt like it and I have been washing with a protein poo and condish.

Im just starting to learn whats right for my hair. I have always been kinda backwards when it comes to knowing whats best for my hair. I dont know why but I just dont seem to have that much hair knowledge! But I am learning now and I can only get better-I hope!:p I think thats why I decided to listen to my hd about my hair needing protein. Nothing I was doing was really working and I figured she knew best. I know better now.;)

Im going to check and see if the mask that I have used twice already has protein in it. I would be surprised if it did because my hair seems to like it. But I need to check that out. And I was already one step ahead of you because I was thinking maybe I should just use the moisturizing poo and condish for a while longer before I use the mask. I hair seems to be liking the moisturizing S&C. Its not like my hair is gorgous now but it seems to look and feel a little better. Which is all I can ask for right now.

My plan when I got this awful color from my old hd was to get my hair colored one more time back to my natural color ash to help hide my highlights while I grow them out. One last color and then to keep up the roots and keep the color dark I was going to try tea rinses. Right now I should have had only one color on my hair and thats it. But I have been getting the demis to cover up the nasty color that I actually got. My terrific plan was ruined.

Oh I forgot that I never fixed my hair type. I had to put something in there when I first joined and I thought that was my type. But I did re-type using the typing pictures and I forgot what I am! Haha-sorry. I have fine hair with 1-2 s waves. Thats when my hair is combed straight and air dried with no products.

And the frustration of damaged colore bleached hair is pretty bad. I will never do this to my hair again.

spookyghost
August 25th, 2012, 10:11 AM
Hi everyone! I dont want to start a new thread so I thought I would just ask on my old one!:p

Any suggestions on eos for fine, damaged, and split-end hair? I have spent hours reading up on eos and I have discovered that they are very beneficial for health, skin, and hair. Some claim to help lessen shedding and promote growth. I know many people dont believe this and say only patience, proper hair care, and a healthy diet can only help with growth. But when I used Mira hair oil it really did both. I have no pictures or proof but I know it really did lessen my hair shedding and increased my hair growth. Im looking for something else because its so expensive.

Anyways-It seems rosemary, lavender, and thyme seem to do what Im looking for. I also think jojoba is also good too. Anyone else know of any more and any blends or recipes that create a really nice hair potion!;) Oh-nothing with coconut! My hair hates it.

Also-I have been looking up on any S&C that can help repair/mend damaged split-end hair. I know the only cure for that is a chop but I thought there has to be something out there that can at least help my hair and maybe prevent more damage and splits. I have been studying up on the cat-nip thread and Im not quite sure how I feel about that. Plus it seems that any product that is to help repair anything has protein in it. My hair hates protein. Likes moisture. Im also want to use only organic paraben free, sulfate free, etc. products.

Im still using the one and only argon S&C and for now Im going to continue to do so. Im only trying one different thing at a time on my hair and need some ideas for something else to try, when its time, that can help my hair.

Any suggestions?

coneyisland
August 25th, 2012, 05:43 PM
Hi spookyghost. There is no remedy for split ends except for cutting them off. As they can cause more damage to your other (less damaged) hair and ends, it is best to cut them off as they are found to have split.

I believe "coney" hair products use and careful handling can hold off splitting for long stretches of time. I have unsplit ends for about three years following haircuts. I believe some other members use catnip tea on their ends for benefits like that. I do not know that recipe.