can silicone ever work with wavy hair?

[OrganicJewel]

Hey all, question for you :)

Okay first, my hair is damaged with bleach, I haven't bleached in 7 months, but it's still recovering. I am desperately trying to give up all heat. I've used heat maybe a dozen times in the last three months, and each time I regret it cause I can see the new damage from it the very next day.

So, it's been determined that I'm a 2a (I think I'm wavier/curlier when not damaged), but it looks so frizzy and doesn't wave nice, some pieces on top are straight and frizzy. I know the CG method has no silicones, but a heavy coney condtioner gives my damaged hair some smoothness that it desperately needs.

So! What I'm wondering has anyone had success using cones without it affecting your curl pattern?

I really need to get my waves looking better so I can go completely off the heat.

Thanks!

[spidermom]

I loves me some coney serum. In the sig pic, my hair is full of it.

One way to tame frizz for me is to bun for awhile or do a banded ponytail, but not too tight or I'll get ponytail tie lines. Also aloe vera gel between wet palms, then smoothed over the surface.

[lmfbs]

Absolutely. I do the CG method with cones (conditioner only, but I use conditioner with no cones most of the time, but maybe 1 in 3 washes use cones), and clarify when needed.

Cones aren't terrible, so long as you understand what they do and when your hair needs clarifying.

[Tia2010]

I'm a wavy and have pretty similar 'hair stats' as you ( I'm a 1c/2a).. I can use cones, but how I use them decides my outcome.

If I use cones in my shampoo/conditioner..I get much straighter hair, but the shine and feel are amazing :)

If I use my cones in a spray or serum.. I can keep my wave in tact. I just have to be careful not to over do the amount.

[ratgirldjh]

YES! I actually never knew how much of a wavy I am until I started CO washing with a coney conditioner!

[cmg]

Hi OrganicJewel!

I'm two years ahead of you in terms of growing out heat and bleach damage. Your descriptions sounds like me. In my case I couldnt keep up the good progress with cones, because of the buildup. It had to be removed regularly and this added damage to the damage already there. I stopped heat styling and -drying completely, but it was too late. Maybee I also overused the siliconed stuff, especially on the ends where I tried to put pure silicone drops. Nothing really worked in the end, and I am myself to blame for this of course. So I switched to conefree CO-wash and other washing methods without cones. I have never looked back. Curl pattern is slowly returning, but this takes some serious pampering and patience (and two big chops).

Since you are a 2 perhaps plopping and aloe vera gel can help some. But by the sounds of it, there is some serious damage :cool: Deep treatments can help. Try the SMT!

I hope you can find something that works for you. Silicones are only a temporary solution. They dont heal, they only cover up.

PS
For the curly days: Curl formers are fun! And no heat involved.

/ CMG

[spidermom]

I like to think that silicones also protect. What seals moisture OUT can also seal moisture IN.
And I wash with shampoo anyway, so no worries.

[Amber_Maiden]

I have wary hair and recently started using cones- I have no problem with my waves!

[Hollyfire3]

I like to think that silicones also protect. What seals moisture OUT can also seal moisture IN.
And I wash with shampoo anyway, so no worries.

I think somewhere on a MO post, Ktani mentioned that neither cones nor MO seals out moisture, I don't really worry about that part of it.;)

[caiti42]

I find when I use cones I'm 1b and when I don't I'm 1c. They completely change my hair type.

I prefer cones for the smoothness though.

[lapushka]

I agree with lmfbs, cones aren't terrible, as long as you know what they are, what they do and how to clarify. If your hair needs them, and you feel your hair is the better for it, use them. It might smooth your waves over, just a little, but for what you gain in terms of smooth and silky feel - yeah, it's worth it.

[OrganicJewel]

I like to think that silicones also protect. What seals moisture OUT can also seal moisture IN.
And I wash with shampoo anyway, so no worries.
and your hair sure looks nice and wavy and soft!

So, it sounds like I have hope then!

I just washed my hair with a coney shampoo and condish, now I have it damp bunned, so we'll se how my hair turns out!

I do think the smoothness is worth the cones. Thank you, ladies :)

[MinderMutsig]

It may also matter which cone you use. Luxepiggy (at least I think that's her user name) wrote several great posts and possibly an article about different kinds of cones. I don't know all the names, groups and technical terms but I do remember amodimithicone being one of the cones that doesn't build up because it only deposits on damaged areas on the hair and can't deposit over itself because of positive and negative charged ions or something.

I've always hated cones and avoided them long before I found LHC and learned anything about them because I didn't like what they did to my hair but those posts made me give them another shot. I'm absolutely in love with amodimithicone now! (still detest dimithicone) I now have coney conditioners, leave-in conditioners and a detangle spray all with amodimithicone and I have yet to experience build=up. I do alternate with regular cone-free conditioners though, depending on if I want my hair more or less curly/straight. Cones are great for temporarily relaxing my wurls and they make it easier for me to wear my hair down and detangle without breakage afterwards so I love them for those days. If I want to wear my hair curlier I use a cone-free conditioner and presto: wurls!

[Iolanthe13]

If your hair is very damaged, you might find cones useful in preventing further damage. Sure, they won't repair the damage you already have, but they'll make it harder for your hair to tangle and break more. Depending on the degree of damage, you may find your curl pattern returns as your healthy hair grows out, at which point you might have to re-evaluate your routine.

[CurlyCurves]

Cones work great for me :) I shampoo once a week and immedietly follow up with a deep condition.

[Silverbrumby]

I have a cone question. If I put conditioner on my dry hair 1/2 hr before I wash will that help clarify the cones out?

[cmg]

I have a cone question. If I put conditioner on my dry hair 1/2 hr before I wash will that help clarify the cones out?
No. Typically the conditioners have a low pH-level which counteracts the removal of the cones. There are conditioners containing sulphates also, but I would not want to put those in my hair for too long. Personally I try to keep the washing process as short as possible.

/ CMG

[brave]

No. Typically the conditioners have a low pH-level which counteracts the removal of the cones. There are conditioners containing sulphates also, but I would not want to put those in my hair for too long. Personally I try to keep the washing process as short as possible.

/ CMG

Do you know what the reasoning behind sulfates in conditioner is, CMG? that always confuses me.

[MinderMutsig]

Do you know what the reasoning behind sulfates in conditioner is, CMG? that always confuses me. I've recently read a blog with very scientific explanation about why it would be smart to add a tiny bit of castille soap to your deep treatments because it raises the cuticle of the hair and by doing that helps the deep treatment to penetrate more. Maybe the reasoning behind SLS in conditioner is the same?

Sadly I can't seem to find that blog anymore. It had some very good info about hair. :(

[cmg]

I keep forgetting what the things are that you're talking about. Dont know how many times I have had to look up the translation for castile soap :brickwall :D

Anyways, I cant see what chemical advantages an olive oil based soap whould have in theory over other soaps. Perhaps this is something someone tried and found working through practical trial and error? I'm guessing this might have something to do with water hardiness also. I dont really know what the olive oil base would do specifically.

The SLES etc are needed to clean off the silicones and other coating agents like waxes and petroleum based ingredients ("clarifying"). If there were no -cones, the SLES etc were not needed to clean the hair. These are ingredients like SLES, SLS, ALS, ALES and a handfull more. They damage the hair every time you wash, a tiny little bit, due to repetition of the washing/coating process and the hair ages with it. Depending how many layers you have in the cuticle (this varies for different people and is lesser for people with thin hair) it will take more or less time for it to go damaged past repair. When this happens, the inner cortex will be revealed unprotected and no silicone will be able to cover this kind of damage. Thats when you need to cut off your hair or at least the frizzly and/or split ends.

PEG-modified silicones are easier to get rid of, even some conditioners can fix that. And some others dont seem to produce residue on everyone, like Amodimeticone. I do feel these after a few usages though myself and have to clarify eventually. So I have to avoid them too. And Behentrimonium chloride, which isnt considered one of the "baddies". It has waxlike properties, which makes my hair notice layers of it after some time. It is an ingredient used in many products for damaged hair, where it does protect hair that is prone to break off (=very damaged hair). Heres something to read:
http://chemicallypure.com/behentrimonium-chloride

Personally I dont see the benefits of coating damaged hair if it would break off when uncoated. I would be deluding myself. But thats just me. I rather cut bad stuff off and care for the rest in an as environmental friendly way as I can. You may think differently about this and thats OK too. Its your hair :)

/ CMG

[MinderMutsig]

The blog said castille soap but honestly if the reasoning is that it raises the cuticle so the deep treatment can soak in then I don't see why any other soap wouldn't be just as good. I haven't tried it myself yet but I've been meaning to just to see if I notice a difference.

Most conditioners are slightly acidic to close the cuticle after washing with shampoo and a little soap raises that ph a bit so the cuticle remains open to soak in the good stuff in the conditioner or deep treatment. Then afterwards you can follow that with an acidic rinse to close it again.

I'm just repeating what I read in that article but it made sense to me. Enough to want to try it sometime. ;)

[Katze]

'cones work well on my hair, but my scalp doesn't like them (and itchy, crusty, or greasy scalp is, for me, the biggest thing that makes me have to wash).

I like the Dove coney series and sometimes it is the only thing that makes my hair really hang in an acceptable manner - otherwise, it can tend to be all over the place. For a while, I was using these products only, but again, I had to wash more frequently, and my waves really straightened.

I may go back to 'cones soon.

[nowheregirl]

I have 2b/2c wavy hair...silicone makes it a lot straighter(2a). I like it that way so i use heavy cone shampooo/conditioner/leave-in serums. on the other hand, prolonged c/w gives me spirals (2c/3a)..so if you're trying to get wavier/curlier..staying off silicone will definitely help

[DancingQueen]

I find that my hair loves cones, without them my hair tangles much easier, and it looks flat and boring. A lot of curlies seem to agree with this. I don't know if it make a difference with extra damage, but you can always use a hair repair series? :)