Shampoo bars vs soap?

[salamander]

What's the difference between shampoo bars and soap? Because I always wonder, maybe I should just use my soap bar on my hair as well as my body when I need something a smidge stronger than CO, it would help simplify my shower routine. But would normal soap be harmful to hair? What do they do to shampoo bars that's different?

[Neneka]

Soap usually contains more oils. Poo bars usually have more ingredients that are beneficial to hair since they are made for hair but they are based on soap. Soap is not harmful for hair and I know some people here use it. And I mean soap that has been made of lye and oils and contain no sulphates.

Soaps and poo bars are basic so after washing hair with them acid rinse is usually needed. I use conditioner after soap/poo bar and it works just fine.

I have used both marseille soap and poo bars and I haven't really noticed difference in my hair. I have been using them for two years now.

[Bene]

I'm a shampoo bar enthusiast. But I recently got the bug up my butt to try using Ivory soap to wash my hair because that's what I did when I was really little, and I had the best hair back then.

Hell, the store opens in like 2 and a half hours. I'll run down and get a bar, and see what I see. I'll drop back in if there's anything useful to report.

[bekstamonkey]

Neneka's right...here's an example...I am a soapmaker. I make both body bars and shampoo bars. My body bars contain three different types of oils (hard and soft), plus Goat's Milk. My Shampoo bars, however, contain 6 different types of oils (all have different benefits to hair in particular, although can be used for skin, too), PLUS liquids specifically chosen for hair-benefits, PLUS a couple different butters, and of course essential oils chosen as being good for hair...makes a really creamy, rich-lathering bar which moisturises beautifully and gives hair a real boost. My 'poo bars are 'richer' than my body bars, with a thicker lather, which means less rubbing on hair to get a lather up. You can use regular soap on your hair, but shampoo soaps are specifically created with hair in mind, so the ingredients reflect that.

[Bene]

Okay, hair washed with Ivory soap and is now up in a towel. Recording my observations, I'll have a full report once my hair is down and I need to do my oiling/detangling. Debating whether to share my findings here or to start a thread.

[Wildcat Diva]

Well for sure let us know what happens here, Bene.
Don't leave us hangin.

I use Chagrin Valley shampoo bars on my scalp. I love them. I have started using citric acid water as a rinse and that seems to work well too.

[Bene]

So far, no hair disaster. The hair is still attached to my head, I am not freaking out, everything seems to be going ok :laugh:

Still writing this stuff up. And it's a lot. Don't want to derail this thread, since this is about soaps in general, and my experiment is comparing Chagrin Valley/ Apple Valley shampoo bars with Ivory.

New thread coming up shortly.

[salamander]

You can use regular soap on your hair, but shampoo soaps are specifically created with hair in mind, so the ingredients reflect that.

So it's mostly a question of specialization? Awesome, that's what I was hoping! I kind of like adding each specialized thing I know my hair likes individually, anyway; even if my soap isn't specialized for hair, my routine is. Or, of course, I could use shampoo bars as all-over soap! *plots*

[Anje]

Shampoo bars are usually cold-processed soaps. The differences between them and other cold-process soaps are really quite minimal. Different oils tend to be preferred, the superfatting amount is often changed, stuff like that. The difference between shampoo bars and a bar of Ivory or other mass-produced bar soap might be a bit more pronounced, as those will tend to use cheaper fats for their production, and I doubt there's much superfatting at all.

Be aware that many bar "soaps" on the market are actually detergents in solid form and are more akin to shampoo or body wash.

[truepeacenik]

Bekstamonkey, what do you mean by hard and soft oils?


As mentioned, earlier, there are soap based shampoo bars and bar form shampoos (Lush, for example, and some Etsy sellers really have bar form shampoos)
One is soap, one is detergent.
As I understand it, sodium laureth and it's cousins are detergents.
If I have t his wrong, explain the difference. I like being educated.

Soap is saponification, where a fat molecule is cracked by lye. Interestingly, this is a step in biodiesel fuel.
Saponification is (I think) how those molecules of fat reform after the lye.

[bekstamonkey]

Bekstamonkey, what do you mean by hard and soft oils?


As mentioned, earlier, there are soap based shampoo bars and bar form shampoos (Lush, for example, and some Etsy sellers really have bar form shampoos)
One is soap, one is detergent.
As I understand it, sodium laureth and it's cousins are detergents.
If I have t his wrong, explain the difference. I like being educated.

Soap is saponification, where a fat molecule is cracked by lye. Interestingly, this is a step in biodiesel fuel.
Saponification is (I think) how those molecules of fat reform after the lye.

Hard oils are those which are solid (or close-to) at room temp, like Lard, Palm etc, and soft oils are those which remain liquid - like olive, jojoba, rice bran, castor etc...using hard oils in soaping makes a hard bar, rather than a soft squishy one.

Glad you pointed out the difference in some bars, that some are actually more of a detergent rather than actual soap - Lush bars (shampoo and body) contain SLS, and, if you walk down the beauty aisle in your supermarket and take note of the majority of 'soaps' available, you'll see they're often called stuff like 'beauty bar' etc, and not 'soap', simply because they're not actually soap! They, too, are more 'detergent' than anything, made with petroleum by-products.

[earthnut]

Some liquid shampoos have saponified oils in them, instead of detergents like SLS, too! So you just have to look at the ingredients.

Personally I avoid all soaps, bar or liquid. They leave build up on my hair every time I've tried them. I don't relish the idea of soap scum on my hair.

[ratgirldjh]

I've been allergic to Ivory soap since I was little! I suppose it is the fragrance. I'm also allergic to Dove 'soaps'.

I've used both shampoo bars and soap to wash my hair for years. The only shampoo bar I ever found (or made) that worked well for me was one with coconut, olive and castor (in that order).

Soaps I have used (and made or bought) that were 100% coconut oil, 100% lard, work well for me. Usually the more oils in either poo bar or soap ends up meaning not good for my hair. Dr. Bronner's was the worst soap I have ever used on my skin and hair :shrug:

My favorite all time soap/shampoo bar is made with 100% lard. I either make it or buy it and both work about the same. I superfat mine to 3% and that seems to work well without too much build up. The stuff I bought leaves slightly more build up but is still good.

I try and stay away from 'drying oils' especially for superfatting. I think this is why Dr. Bronner's is so drying on my skin.

The worst soap/poo bar I ever made was when I got the bright idea to make 100% cocoa butter soap. It made a very hard soap and it sudsed well but even at 5% superfat it was the MOST drying soap I've ever used! Even worse than Dr. Bronners! Weird...

[bekstamonkey]

Personally I avoid all soaps, bar or liquid. They leave build up on my hair every time I've tried them. I don't relish the idea of soap scum on my hair.

That's why I love ACV rinses, clears away all residue and just leaves clean hair :)



I've been allergic to Ivory soap since I was little! I suppose it is the fragrance. I'm also allergic to Dove 'soaps'.

I've used both shampoo bars and soap to wash my hair for years. The only shampoo bar I ever found (or made) that worked well for me was one with coconut, olive and castor (in that order).

Soaps I have used (and made or bought) that were 100% coconut oil, 100% lard, work well for me. Usually the more oils in either poo bar or soap ends up meaning not good for my hair. Dr. Bronner's was the worst soap I have ever used on my skin and hair :shrug:

My favorite all time soap/shampoo bar is made with 100% lard. I either make it or buy it and both work about the same. I superfat mine to 3% and that seems to work well without too much build up. The stuff I bought leaves slightly more build up but is still good.

I try and stay away from 'drying oils' especially for superfatting. I think this is why Dr. Bronner's is so drying on my skin.

The worst soap/poo bar I ever made was when I got the bright idea to make 100% cocoa butter soap. It made a very hard soap and it sudsed well but even at 5% superfat it was the MOST drying soap I've ever used! Even worse than Dr. Bronners! Weird...

Coconut and olive oil are such beautiful mild oils, rarely cause a problem for skin...these are the two I use predominantly for my body bars, for this reason :) and Lard, is another good one, I agree! Unfortunately people get a bit freaked out when you say you use Lard to make soap, they don't like the 'idea' of it LOL, their loss :p My 'poo bars contain Lard.

Cocoa Butter...oh really? I had someone else tell me they tried a 100% CB batch of CP, too, but theirs was all slimy and left a yukky feel to the skin even after rinsed...and they generally superfat at about the 5-7% mark, bizarre...I use CB in my 'poo bars, but never tried a 100% batch, guess now with two different soapers informing about their horror stories, I likely never will try it LOL :p

[JellyBene]

My hair does not like bar soaps at all. It makes them gummy and waxy, even with an ACV rinse.

[earthnut]

That's why I love ACV rinses, clears away all residue and just leaves clean hair :)

Yeah, that didn't work for me. I still got build up.

[spirals]

I have a thing for bar soap, so I have 4 in the shower right now. I just grab whichever catches my fancy that day and wash my hair, then do a citric acid rinse. Two of my bars are a soap/detergent combo and 2 are just soap. I don't notice much of a difference between thm all.

[salamander]

No worries about me getting bar detergents, I react pretty badly to sulfates, so I read my ingredient labels carefully. That's one of the reasons I'm considering replacing shampoo with soap, actually, you have to read through a billion ingredients on shampoo bottles then sit there wondering "how close is this ingredient, chemically, to sulfates? What if sulfates are in there but my eye skipped a line?" whereas with old fashioned saponified oils I can just grab a bar at the farmer's market and shower with confidence. Maybe I should just clarify with baking soda and sidestep the whole issue.

[earthnut]

No worries about me getting bar detergents, I react pretty badly to sulfates, so I read my ingredient labels carefully. That's one of the reasons I'm considering replacing shampoo with soap, actually, you have to read through a billion ingredients on shampoo bottles then sit there wondering "how close is this ingredient, chemically, to sulfates? What if sulfates are in there but my eye skipped a line?" whereas with old fashioned saponified oils I can just grab a bar at the farmer's market and shower with confidence. Maybe I should just clarify with baking soda and sidestep the whole issue.

With curly hair, what about scrapping the shampoo completely and go CO?

I like simple ingredient lists myself, and I like the Everyday Shea line. You can find it at Whole Foods and Metropolitan Market. I use the bubble bath as a shampoo because it only contains glucosides, some of the very mildest surfactants. The parent company, Alaffia, also makes several saponified oil shampoos that you can find at the same stores.

Simple soap also has a long history of use in the hair, it's worth a try!

[bekstamonkey]

My hair does not like bar soaps at all. It makes them gummy and waxy, even with an ACV rinse.


Yeah, that didn't work for me. I still got build up.

awww, a pity :(


I have a thing for bar soap, so I have 4 in the shower right now. I just grab whichever catches my fancy that day and wash my hair, then do a citric acid rinse. Two of my bars are a soap/detergent combo and 2 are just soap. I don't notice much of a difference between thm all.

hahah I'm the same, I have four different 'poo bars in the shower at the moment, "what scent to do I feel like today?" :D I wish I could get away with just using regular soap, but my hair goes ballistic whenever I have tried, frizzes to high heaven LOL lucky you!


you have to read through a billion ingredients on shampoo bottles then sit there wondering "how close is this ingredient, chemically, to sulfates? What if sulfates are in there but my eye skipped a line?"

This made me laugh cos it's so true...one of the reasons I switched to 'poo bars...and then started making my own, can be sure there's no nasties in there. Have you had success with the baking soda before? Another I tried and my hair did not like it at all, couldn't seem to get all of it out, but maybe I did it wrong lol

[salamander]

With curly hair, what about scrapping the shampoo completely and go CO?

My current leave in gives me buildup with CO. TBH I'm not thrilled with it and am not going to repurchase, but I refuse to just toss it in the trash without using the rest of it, it would feel like such a waste!

I'm also considering revamping my routine to avoid plastic bottles, so I'm thinking I might do the oil-vinegar-cleanser thing, but usually people use baking soda for the cleanser with that and that sounds so harsh to me. Baking soda and vinegar can clean out plugged drains, my hair doesn't get that dirty! If I can pull it off without using one of the strongest bases in the house I'd feel better.