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CurlyCurves
July 21st, 2012, 12:17 PM
This has been on my mind for a while now, and I just wanted to express myself, and perhaps get some other people's opinions/thoughts on the matter.

All my life, whenever I straighten my hair, I get told it looks better. Or I should do it more often. When I look to the media, there's negative curly stereotypes everywhere, and curly hair is often representated only by wavy hair or artificially curled hair. We get told that our hair is hard work, or hear other curlies tell everyone curly hair is a nightmare. I constantly hear other curlies say they straighten their hair daily, and that they hate their curly hair.

I feel I am treated better when my hair is straightened, found to be more attractive. Taken more seriously. I am attracted to white men, and I get more looks from them when my hair is straight.

I am told my curly hair makes me look 'fun', cute, open. I am not told it makes me look sexy or seductive.

When I have seen men asked which they prefer, an overwhelming majority say they prefer straight hair, or loose curls.

I love my curls, but I am starting to feel insecure about them. Me, of all people. I sometimes crave straight hair, and I don't know why. I love curly hair, and I love mine. I certainly feel sexy when I have a good hair day.

But all this time, in the back of my mind, there is just this little voice reminding me that, while some people may think curly hair is nice, not many people think it's sexy. Many think it's unprofessional, or wild, or 'cute', or just plain not as attractive as straight hair.

I'm not going to lie, it kind of burns. Why is it like this? Why can't all hair types, as long as they're healthy, be regarded as sexy? I personally think any long, healthy hair is sexy. The emphasis is on health, for me, not curl, or lack thereof (though, I do have a special place in my heart for long frizz-free type 2c-3c hair).

Thoughts? Any fellow curlies, how do you feel about this?

Hollyfire3
July 21st, 2012, 12:24 PM
I don't know why this is...it agravates me too! I think one of the reasons you get noticed with straight hair is because you don't do it often. I used to get noticed with my curls back when I straightened daily (rainstorm=tons of curly compliments). People are just weird like that, they always want to see a chnage to be able to compliment it. I like to think the media promotes straight hair because lots of people A. don't know their hair is curly or B. straight hair is easier to make look shiny and galmorous. I wish people would stop seeing curls as wild and romantic looking honestly. I am not a fairytale girly girl nor am I a wild child, my style is elegant and subtly sexy, not crazy wild hooker or bedhead, which is what curls are soemtimes percieved as. I wear my curls, but don't really feel they fit me. I am reading the curly girl book and all anyone can say is their curls "set them free" and such. I am not a free spirted hippy and would like to be thought of as more grown up and beautiful instead of cute. Just my opinions....:D

Kyla
July 21st, 2012, 12:26 PM
Only a wannabe curly here unfortunately, but I wanted to say that I thought the media does often portray curlies as sexy in a wild way? That's always the perception I've gotten, that the media believes curlies are "too sexy" to a point where they are forced to tame their hair in order to be taken seriously? This is of course a problem by itself, but it's just what I've always thought.

Then again, I don't really pay attention to "the media," so I don't know if my perceptions are useful at all or not. :p

DaniVerde
July 21st, 2012, 12:27 PM
I'll agree with you on this, CurlyCurves. That's why I've spent years relaxing my hair.

I've been told that I look more attractive with straight hair, neater, sexier, more "adult", more professional...the list is endless really.

I've been told that curly hair always looks "messy", "unkempt", "ratty", "neglected"...I've been asked "Did you forget to comb your hair today?". Yeah, 'cause curly hair is obviously a sign of poor personal grooming :disbelief: :disgust:


In fact, it's getting so bad again, that I' thinking of relaxing my hair again :(

Hollyfire3
July 21st, 2012, 12:28 PM
Only a wannabe curly here unfortunately, but I wanted to say that I thought the media does often portray curlies as sexy in a wild way? That's always the perception I've gotten, that the media believes curlies are "too sexy" to a point where they are forced to tame their hair in order to be taken seriously? This is of course a problem by itself, but it's just what I've always thought.

Then again, I don't really pay attention to "the media," so I don't know if my perceptions are useful at all or not. :p

I wish they were not always seen as being too wild or sexy. I am not a wild animal and would like to be taken seriously with my curls. Your prception seems very accurate, thank you:)

DaniVerde
July 21st, 2012, 12:31 PM
Only a wannabe curly here unfortunately, but I wanted to say that I thought the media does often portray curlies as sexy in a wild way? That's always the perception I've gotten, that the media believes curlies are "too sexy" to a point where they are forced to tame their hair in order to be taken seriously? This is of course a problem by itself, but it's just what I've always thought.

Then again, I don't really pay attention to "the media," so I don't know if my perceptions are useful at all or not. :p


I wish they were not always seen as being too wild or sexy. I am not a wild animal and would like to be taken seriously with my curls. Your prception seems very accurate, thank you:)

I'm going to have to disagree. Perhaps this is the US/North American perception? Most people I know perceive curls as ugly, frumpy, dowdy....the exact opposite of wild and sexy.

sakuraemily
July 21st, 2012, 12:34 PM
there are a lot of guys who find curls incredibly sexy too!
I have seen some amazing curls here on LHC and in my place.
I think the problem is that a lot of curlies don't know how to handle those curls and go around drying them brushng them and all sorts of curl crimes and end up making their hair looking absolutely awful. And we all know that unhealthy hair does not look great.

Hollyfire3
July 21st, 2012, 12:34 PM
I'm going to have to disagree. Perhaps this is the US/North American perception? Most people I know perceive curls as ugly, frumpy, dowdy....the exact opposite of wild and sexy.

Yes, this is the US perception, here, it is always that when someone want to get sexy, this curl their hair.:)

neko_kawaii
July 21st, 2012, 12:34 PM
As someone with mostly straight hair, I have to say that I have ALWAYS wanted curly hair. Just think how many people get perms, sleep in curlers etc. Curls are amazing and sexy. If you had straight hair, you would probably feel the same way you do now, that curls are more valued than straight. I think it is a "grass is always greener" issue and we all have to learn to love what we have or find what makes us most comfortable. I'm sorry you are feeling down about your curls, I think they are beautiful.

DaniVerde
July 21st, 2012, 12:38 PM
As someone with mostly straight hair, I have to say that I have ALWAYS wanted curly hair. Just think how many people get perms, sleep in curlers etc. Curls are amazing and sexy. If you had straight hair, you would probably feel the same way you do now, that curls are more valued than straight. I think it is a "grass is always greener" issue and we all have to learn to love what we have or find what makes us most comfortable. I'm sorry you are feeling down about your curls, I think they are beautiful.

I'm not the OP, but this is a matter dear to my heart, so I had to reply. I had to bold that part of your statement, because that's part of the "problem"...curly hair is usually only deemed attractive if it's wavy, or curled straight hair (whether through perm or rollers or whatever). Naturally curly hair is often derided, and it hurts.

Diamond.Eyes
July 21st, 2012, 12:38 PM
I think naturally curly hair is such a beautiful thing. Whenever someone with curly hair comes into the cosmetology school I attend, I get so excited because I get to play with their lovely curls. I think the media portrays straight hair as more attractive because it is easier to take care of, that's all. Who cares what the media thinks anyway? They are always going back and forth with what's attractive to stick with trends anyway. As someone with naturally straight hair, I have always admired naturally curly hair. I really love your hair CurlyCurves and I'm sorry people make you feel like your hair isn't pretty in its natural state, but I know many ladies on this site would love to have your texture, including me. :flower:

Brat
July 21st, 2012, 12:47 PM
I was working at this dealership where my hair was always in its natural state. Curly/wavy/frizzy. I was there for probably 2 years when I found out about the flat iron and the magic it can create. I flat ironed for the next 2 years, when everyone told me how beautiful it was when it was straight.

I moved to another dealership, where I continued to flat iron, until I decided the split ends and the time involved were just not worth it anymore. When I let my hair go back to its natural state, everyone raved about how beautiful it was when curly.

:/

It's about how people are used to seeing you. Any change is new and different. I love every texture, I think they're all sexy.

Silken
July 21st, 2012, 12:48 PM
Curls: The ultimate bed head! I find curly hair incredibly sexy and fun looking.

Kyla
July 21st, 2012, 12:49 PM
I'm going to have to disagree. Perhaps this is the US/North American perception? Most people I know perceive curls as ugly, frumpy, dowdy....the exact opposite of wild and sexy.

I agree with you that it must be a US/NA perception, since I've never seen curls portrayed as frumpy or dowdy either. :)

To all the curlies posting on here, I'm so jealous of your hair! I've wanted curls forever now and am forced to make due with wurls. So jealous, sigh... :p

PinkyCat
July 21st, 2012, 12:52 PM
All I can say is HA!! That's pretty funny. Ok moving on...

Hollyfire3
July 21st, 2012, 12:55 PM
I agree with you that it must be a US/NA perception, since I've never seen curls portrayed as frumpy or dowdy either. :)

To all the curlies posting on here, I'm so jealous of your hair! I've wanted curls forever now and am forced to make due with wurls. So jealous, sigh... :p

I have wurls naturally, (around 2c/3a when not damaged) and just wish they were more tame, smoother, shinier. You type yourself at 2c/3a isn't that curls?:)

Cafe au Lait
July 21st, 2012, 12:57 PM
This is why I fried my hair for years and have (hopefully temporarily) lost my 3a/3b curls - I was mercilessly teased in middle school and high school for having curly hair.

After going natural and trying to get my natural curl back (probably won't until I can cut all the damage out), I got a condescending remark - Don't worry honey, maybe the messy frizzy look is in right now.

Yeah. I get what you mean. :(

Edit : As awful as this is.. I flat ironed my hair daily for 10+ years due to this.

Kyla
July 21st, 2012, 12:59 PM
I have wurls naturally, (around 2c/3a when not damaged) and just wish they were more tame, smoother, shinier. You type yourself at 2c/3a isn't that curls?:)

I hairtyped myself when I first joined two years ago, and got it pretty wrong. :p Since then, I haven't bothered to change. My laziness knows no bounds. My hair does curl when it dries naturally, but only a little bit and the curls are delicate and smoothed out immediately with bunning, braiding, dry combing, and brushing. I would point towards my album for curl examples, but since the albums went down I haven't been able to put a natural curl pic up.

Sorry for any thread derailment there!

Ticky
July 21st, 2012, 01:02 PM
I think that it is a matter of personal preference, and people who don't realize that their words could be hurtful. Where I live, curly hair isn't considered something bad. Unfortunately, some people choose to treat you based on your appearance, so they treat you better if you have this not that hairstyle, or expensive clothing...

I wouldn't mind having some curls :p

Hollyfire3
July 21st, 2012, 01:07 PM
I hairtyped myself when I first joined two years ago, and got it pretty wrong. :p Since then, I haven't bothered to change. My laziness knows no bounds. My hair does curl when it dries naturally, but only a little bit and the curls are delicate and smoothed out immediately with bunning, braiding, dry combing, and brushing. I would point towards my album for curl examples, but since the albums went down I haven't been able to put a natural curl pic up.

Sorry for any thread derailment there!

lol! Thats pretty funny, you're excused then. :p Hijack over, sorry guys!

neko_kawaii
July 21st, 2012, 01:11 PM
I'm not the OP, but this is a matter dear to my heart, so I had to reply. I had to bold that part of your statement, because that's part of the "problem"...curly hair is usually only deemed attractive if it's wavy, or curled straight hair (whether through perm or rollers or whatever). Naturally curly hair is often derided, and it hurts.

I don't get enough media exposure I suppose. On the rare occasions that I have done my hair in curls I wanted to imitate natural curls and was always disappointed with the results.

I know it won't make you feel more general love for your natural curls, but as a wavy when my hair in its wavy state I get comments about how my hair looks unbrushed. If you want everyone to love everything, you are going to fail. There are invariably going to be the people who dislike curls, or straight, or the color blue, and they will probably be the vocal ones.

As someone who doesn't shave I face this kind of public scrutiny all the time. The best thing I can say is to go out with your head held high and be the kind of person you would look up to and if you get stupid comments calmly explain why you prefer curls (or hairy armpits) or whatever it is.

:flower:

leslissocool
July 21st, 2012, 01:16 PM
Really? Now I know African- Americans have a thing for "good" hair and straight, but I can say 100% every guy I've gone out with has a thing for curly hair, I'm talking just like you CurlyCurves, tiny curls. DH loves curls. I'd even say, his friends actually dislike "flat" hair. there was another thread about it, and when I asked them (they were here, listening to music and talking) all of them said they like hair with volume. It was DH that encouraged me to have my natural texture.

I get more complements with my natural texture than with straight hair. Curled hair looks off on me, my hair forms ringlets on the bottom naturally (and so my kids hair). My stepson has naturally straight hair, and girls are the one always in love with it.

I lived in the US, and various places in Europe. They like bouncy hair from my experience.

Honestly, even I think your hair is very sexy :o don't take this the wrong way, but when I see hip or TB curly hair it shows off the waist and I usually stop and stare. I really like it too :crush:.

cocolover
July 21st, 2012, 01:20 PM
oops double post

cocolover
July 21st, 2012, 01:21 PM
As another curly, I would agree that at least in the US, curls have the stereotype of either being "romantic hair" or "frizzy mess" hair. Because so much styling is the norm, polished sleek hair or very manufactured curls, are the ideal. I think it is just a created thing by the beauty/hair industry. Once I learned to properly moisturize my hair and keep the frizz at bay, I have learned to love and appreciate my curls. I don't care much about projecting a "professional" image however, as I have always embraced my quirkiness :)

On a last note, in all the surveys I have ever stumbled upon, men tend to find curls sexy....in a wild sexy way however. My DH has always said confidence is the sexiest thing in a woman, and I think we just have to enjoy the individual beauty that we each have. Here's to enjoying the hair we have :beercheer:

lapushka
July 21st, 2012, 02:42 PM
I think that it's either sleek, straight hair that's okay and the other side of the spectrum, lucious curls. Anything in between that waves or remotely frizzes is never okay for other people, I think. They don't know how to deal with that kind of hair, it's too wild and unkempt, I guess.

Bene
July 21st, 2012, 02:59 PM
I'll get compliments when I flat iron. I don't flat iron because it's too much effort at my length. I also happen to think straight/wavy hair is more attractive than curly hair. There's no reason for it, it's a preference. Not saying curly hair is ugly, but I like straighter hair.

I happen to have curly hair. It doesn't bother me in the least that other people will find straight hair more attractive than mine. Also, my own insecurities aren't tied into whether or not anyone else thinks I'm attractive.

CurlyCap
July 21st, 2012, 03:16 PM
Yep. I agree with almost everything you've written. It's maddening.

I have only one edit, and that is that well-groomed curly hair isn't universally seen as ugly. It's a preference, as with all other things. However, my vote is that even among men who like curly hair, it's usually viewed as "exotic" instead of just "pretty" and that isn't necessarily a good thing.

I've gotten into endless conversations with curly friends about the hair thing. The end summary is that curly hair seems to be sexy like short skirts are sexy: Not always seen as appropriate. Which is ridiculous.

I've been approached by lots of men, including white men, solely because of my hair. They like the ringlets, think it's exotic, and get a bit of an ego boost from being allowed to play with my hair (They eventually figure out that just about anyone is allowed to play with my hair as long as they don't pull). Most find the endless curly states between wet hair and dry fascinating, and there is no head of bed head like a curlies. Especially sex bedhead.

The problem comes in when they eventually want you to tone it down for public events. For example, I had one boyfriend whose parents I was going to meet. I went over to his place with head of gigantic curls because of the humidity. It was wild, but nothing he hadn't seen before. He politely said that he thought I'd look more put together if I put my hair up. I told him that I wear my hair down almost every day if it isn't a fashion choice, and that "hair down" was how I was going to meet his parents. It wasn't a popular decision.

The good news is that as the guys get older, in general they care less about what they're friends and family have to say and have more faith in their own opinions. I deal with this issue a lot less than when I was in college.

As for the "straight is more professional" bull, I used to give in to that and keep my hair up and slicked most of the time. Now I just call it the populist/racist/you're-different-from-me crap that it is. If other women in my workplace get to to wear their hair down, then so do I. End of story.

Charybdis
July 21st, 2012, 03:33 PM
CurlyCurves, I love curly hair, and yours is a particularly lovely example. If someone can't see the beauty in it, that's their loss. :flower:

Avital88
July 21st, 2012, 03:45 PM
This really depends on where you live i think,in IsraŽl for example ive never heard any negativity About curls ,all positive,but in Holland i can relate to the too sexy/wild part,i hear it alot.sad

FrozenBritannia
July 21st, 2012, 03:50 PM
I read somewhere that like the majority of people in the world have brown eyes, the majority also have curly hair. So maybe its a case of a bunch of closet curlies who hate their curls trying to encourage everyone else to give up theirs too? (you know how that goes right?)

Personally, I love curls. I only have wurls, but my hubby likes my hair a ton better when it is wurly than when it is straight, and I have heard him and his buddies talking about how they like girls with BIG hair.

Alvrodul
July 21st, 2012, 03:51 PM
Once upon a time, I spent $$$ in order to chemically fry my hair so that I could get curls....:rolleyes: Did not work out too well, I'm afraid, since I, as a straightie, did not know how to take proper care of my curls. Using a hairbrush - I suppose I need say no more... :p
Well, I have always craved curls, and admired them. And when properly cared for, curls look amazing! :crush: Unfortunately, people mostly don't know how to deal with curls where I live. :shrug:

papera
July 21st, 2012, 03:56 PM
I personally LOVE curly hair, and I'd love my wavy hair to be really curly. So yeah, the grass seems to be greener on the other side ;)

I also think that really curly hair can be very sexy, as can wavy or straight hair. Maybe there are different ways of sexy associated with different hair textures, as I also perceive really curly hair to be "wilder" than straight hair. I wouldn't necessarily feel bad about that but then I don't have curly hair and I don't have to live with these prejudices, so I can't really comprehend how you guys feel with it.

I think it's very silly to call curly hair unprofessional, not elegant, nymphomaniac, etc ... it's the same as to say that blondes are stupid, brown heads boring and read heads aggressive and fiery:rolleyes:
But I guess that curly hair needs special care and many people may not know how to deal with their curls which makes them look dry/ ratty, etc ... and not nice.

But I'm located in Europe, so maybe the perception of curly hair is different here than in NA.

Anyway, curly hair rocks!!! :disco:

sweetestpoison
July 21st, 2012, 04:16 PM
Idk about curls being less attractive, because it seems like whenever girls get ready to go out on a date or dress up nice for a formal event or something romantic they tend to do curls. I don't think it's that they are less attractive, i think they are attractive in a different way. Yes it is a lot harder for curls to get taken seriously. I think that's because natural curls require no effort, and letting your hair down without any effort of styling to some comes across as lazy or somebody who doesn't care about their appearance. As a natural curly haired girl, I used to get told i looked a lot better with straight hair and that i should never let it curl again. But now most people don't even know that i have naturally curly hair because i take really good care not to let it get frizzy and poofy, and keep it moisturized with daily oil. When i do wear it down, i take full advantage of its ability to hold whatever shape i give it, and go for some bun curls or sock curls.. i say bun/sock curls because my hair doesn't do waves. It's either curly or it's not XD I also use heat on my fringe, so it still looks as though i put some effort into it when really i just let it do its own thing. What i find is that it doesn't matter what the rest of my hair looks like, when my fringe is straight i look just as attractive with it up, straight, side braid, or curly. I personally think stick straight hair is really boring, and got the phase of needing straight hair constantly out of the way a long time ago (i had a short bob cut so it HAD to be straightened every day). I say let your curls run free just take care of them and bump the haters!

gthlvrmx
July 21st, 2012, 04:50 PM
Personally, i prefer curly hair over straight hair ANY DAY. they have spunk. Yes, straight hair is impressive when long, but curly hair has a mind of its own and goes everywhere. Its amazing how it can curl, and thats my opinion.

But i also have to fight the idea that short, non curly, combed(brushed i mean) hair is "right and beautiful, professional". That's why im getting irritated with the fact i bother with even fixing my curly bumps on my head when i go out with friends or something fancier, because i got the idea in my head that curlier hair is not appealing and my hair has to be flat and sleek in order to be "pretty and appropriate". I hate it. Im not living up to that and im loving my natural hair, no matter what it is. If it poofs up, it poofs up and there.
If its healthy, thats all that really matters.

But i have really seen this attitude with curly hair many times and including in me. Its not nice, but what are you gonna do about them? If they say anything to you about your own hair, give them a piece of your mind but thats it. Im working on myself and learning to love myself more and more with all i got. Curls do NOT equal bad.

Hollyfire3
July 21st, 2012, 04:54 PM
Is it possible that curly hair will EVER get a reputation for being as appropriate and sleek (in terms of beauty) as straight hair? I get annoyed that the only reason people say curly hair is beautiful is because its wild and free and crazy, when I just want it to be sleek and flowing but still curly.....I don't want to be assumed as a wild girl when I have curly hair:rolleyes:

Crybb
July 21st, 2012, 05:57 PM
When I used to perm a curly friend used to just shake her head ... she want my hair I wanted hers. Another case of grass is greener. .. when I saw the photo of your hair I was jealous. .hope all the love makes you feel better about your curlies!!

LaFlor
July 21st, 2012, 06:11 PM
Everyone could probably pick up cues from around them about what is sexy or not. It's not just about curly hair or straight hair.

Woman with pale skin are complimented when they get a tan,
woman with small boobs are complimented when they wear a push up bra,
then there's the compliments you get when you lose 10 lbs,
and the compliments you get when you decide to wear a dress when you usually wear pants,
or when you wear make-up when you usually don't,
or when you switch your flats for heels,
or get your teeth straightened.

The list goes on FOREVER. I'm not going to change everything about myself just to make people see me as more sexy or sleek or whatever, because I will always find something lacking. And I'm not going to become insecure about every little thing about me that doesn't fit someone's preference.

If a guy doesn't find you sexy with curly hair then you are not his type, get over it!
I don't think blonde guys are attractive, doesn't mean they should all go dye their hair to fit in with my ideal, because there are girls out there who are attracted to it!

I think curly hair is amazing! :blossom:

DragonFlyPie
July 21st, 2012, 06:56 PM
You know, i LOVE curly hair!! I always wished I had super curly hair because I'd have the biggest afro you could imagine! I freaking LOVE LOVE LOVE huge monstrous afros!!! I think they are the sexiest thing a woman could have on her head! LOL Maybe in my next life :)

I also adore men with curly hair - super sexy!!

When i wanted to look extra gorgeous, I'd always curl my hair (no more heat though, for me.) Honestly, i hate straight hair - well, forcefully straightened hair. I do think super healthy, naturally straight hair is lovely.

RedheadMistress
July 21st, 2012, 07:03 PM
- I've noticed this exact same thing !

With anything, when it comes to me, I see it as a consequence of a big bad thing .

Whenevr I straighten my hair I get a lot more compliments, people just dont think curls look good, we're told to do something about tit, there's so much products there to "help" us straighten our hair . .

After 22 years I'm starting to make myself love my curls, like everyting else about my natural body that I want to love; periods, curves, body hair, all things we're being told we need to work on/change .

I do love my curls though, like seeing the way they go, when my hair's healthy (hah ! haven't seen it healthy in a decade) it's ringlets, and it's *****ing cute .

It's sad but when I think of characters from TV shows or films, only person I can remember with curls who was also strong, sexy, intelligent, is Zoe from Firefly .

Let me know if you can think of anyone else ! I'd love to know .

Oh and also you can see photos of my curls in my albums, some stages healthier than in others heheh . .

I haven't noticed a change in how much I get hit on, since sadly I get hit on a lot and the main change I noticed was when I stopped giving a sh*t about what people think and just started loving myself and being more confident in that way, not being self-consciuos .

Ginger Kitteh
July 21st, 2012, 07:15 PM
Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. I have always loved curly hair. My hair was completely straight before puberty. It progressively got wavier until it started to curl. It's something I've always hoped for...

Are you a member of Naturallycurly.com? You may want to try there for support. There are tons of ways to feel better through the forums.

anitacs9101
July 21st, 2012, 07:19 PM
there are a lot of guys who find curls incredibly sexy too!
I have seen some amazing curls here on LHC and in my place.
I think the problem is that a lot of curlies don't know how to handle those curls and go around drying them brushng them and all sorts of curl crimes and end up making their hair looking absolutely awful. And we all know that unhealthy hair does not look great.

I agree...although I think that it's just normal for a girl today to want the exact opposite of what she has. The beautiful curlies I know straighten their hair and the sleek haired ones wish they had body and voluptuousness.

I personally think curly hair is BEAUTIFUL :) I love seeing someone with curly hair, I always want to stop and compliment them ^_^

Bene
July 21st, 2012, 07:27 PM
I just asked my b/f if he prefers straight hair or curly hair. He looked at me funny then pointed at his head with a questioning look on his face. I took it to mean he was asking if I meant head hair. I nodded. He said he prefers straight hair. As a curly, I don't feel the least bit insecure over this development.







However, a point of interest for the peeps on this site. I asked him "You had to point to your head?" and he responded "I know you're talking to the long hair people. Yes, I really did have to point to my head. For all I know, you could be asking about facial hair, or pubes, or armpit hair."

And he's right :laugh:

Aer
July 21st, 2012, 07:29 PM
Curls are sexy, but also innocent. My husband loves curly, but as a few guys once told me, individuality is sexy. If your'e pale, and have curly brownish hair and it's your, or your dark and have long silky straight locks and it's your, then its you, and "you" is sexy.I have seen people on this board who flaunt their own natural style, and they are stunning, and nobody looks the same. And to be honest, hair straight,silver,blue,curly,red,pink,wavy or dark is going to get real sexy the longer it gets :)

Elithia
July 21st, 2012, 07:40 PM
I mean, I've known guys (one in particular -- too bad he's a bit of a sleazebucket) who RAVED about how much they loved my curls. And I've known guys who professed a clear preference for straight hair. I think socially there's a distinct trend towards seeing straight hair as more professional, sleek, beautiful, etc. But it's a lot like weight. Society tells women they have to be mini-thin to be attractive to men, but that's just as untrue as the straight hair myth. :) I'm neither mini-thin nor straight-haired, so I've struggled with having the self-confidence to see myself as attractive. Still not there, but I wouldn't trade my curls for the world ....

misspriss
July 21st, 2012, 07:44 PM
I think curls are defininly attractive. In fact, they are dead sexy. But that is just it, curls are seen as romantic and beautiful and sexy, but not as professional. No one at my last job wore their hair curly, it was always straight and not a hair out of place type hairstyles. At my current job, I wear mine curly, it is much more laid back.

Actually, it is usually up at work. I wore it down and curly for the first time the other day, and I swear one of my coworkers looked at me and I saw the look on her face and it made me feel great. She looked at me with this "wow" look, like, I could see the wow, and then she said "Hey misspriss, you hair looks great!" So I guess some people think curly hair is attractive. She is a wavy actually, with short hair, but she wears her hair in a well gelled wavy style all the time, it looks really nice.

ETA: I asked DH, he said he loves it both ways. I tried to get him to tell me which one he prefered, but he said he really didn't prefer one over the other. In fact, he appreciates the fact that I wear my hair different ways. I don't straighten, but I damp bun to get it reasonably straight with curls at the bottom, and sometimes I let it dry wavy/curly. I think I prefer wavy actually, curly is so hard, because my hair is more wavy with a little curl.

Amygirl8
July 21st, 2012, 07:47 PM
To be honest, I would LOVE to have curly hair.
I spend so much time trying to get my hair into wild, crazy curls like you guys have.
I see that there are a bunch of negative stereotypes concerning curly hair, and I see it in my daily life. One of my best friends is always tormented to straight her naturally curly hair (It's somewhere between 2c and 3a). When it's behaving well, the curls are so well defined and gorgeous (and thick! I'm always jelly of the thick!) that I'd trade my hair in a heartbeat if I could have that hairtype with my length.

It really sucks. Don't worry, they'll be in style eventually and all the straight-haired girls will be mocked because that's just how society is.

LoveAngelBeauty
July 21st, 2012, 07:48 PM
You know, i LOVE curly hair!! I always wished I had super curly hair because I'd have the biggest afro you could imagine! I freaking LOVE LOVE LOVE huge monstrous afros!!! I think they are the sexiest thing a woman could have on her head! LOL Maybe in my next life :)

I also adore men with curly hair - super sexy!!

When i wanted to look extra gorgeous, I'd always curl my hair (no more heat though, for me.) Honestly, i hate straight hair - well, forcefully straightened hair. I do think super healthy, naturally straight hair is lovely.

This.




If a guy doesn't find you sexy with curly hair then you are not his type, get over it!


I think curly hair is amazing! :blossom:
And this.
Sometimes I feel insecure with my hair, but I think it has more to do with the length than anything else. However, my boyfriend (a white guy) loves my hair. Really, really loves my kinky, curly hair. Doesn't like it when I wear extensions. Didn't really like it when I had a relaxer. Gets giddy the longer it gets. There are many men out there (white, black, whatever) who will LOVE LOVE your naturally curly hair. I find naturally curly of the type 4 variety to be absolutely beautiful. When I get down about my hair, I care for it and style it so that I start to appreciate and love what it does. It's kinda like a regular ol' relationship in that way.

LoveAngelBeauty
July 21st, 2012, 07:51 PM
I just asked my b/f if he prefers straight hair or curly hair. He looked at me funny then pointed at his head with a questioning look on his face. I took it to mean he was asking if I meant head hair. I nodded. He said he prefers straight hair. As a curly, I don't feel the least bit insecure over this development.


I'd be offended. Partly for cultural reasons. Partly because I have to go through hell and back to straighten my hair. And I get dry, splitty hair from these efforts :/

Maktub
July 21st, 2012, 08:11 PM
It's unfortunate and wrong, very wrong, but I have the same experience with my 3a hair. When I used to straiten it, I would suddently be seen as so much more sexy than when it's curly. You know, men looking and comming over to flirt, etc.

This being said, I don't care anymore (and don't want this kind of men around me), so loving my natural hair is a win-win situation for me. I don't need (or want) to be considered sexy for every man out there, and I surely don't want to be loved for my artificially-straiten-hair-sexyness, or my clothes, or whatever. Modesty and authenticity feels so much better for me.

But I agree it's unfortunate how "beauty" is massively reduced to what people are bainwashed to consider beautiful (movies, medias, magazines, advertisement, etc.). Remember though that not every man likes strait hair... there are those out there that love the "natural us", whatever our hair texture, skin color, figure, weight, etc., and they are the ones we should want to be loved by and that should be loved back for their natural authentic selves too.

I believe that if we want to be loved for who we are, we also need to be able to love beyond apparences too. Not saying being healthy and taking care of ourselves is not important (it is, I think), but we should embrace our individuality, love ourselves, and love others for who they are deep down too.

holothuroidea
July 21st, 2012, 08:17 PM
My DH has curly hair and I find him extremely sexy.

Also he's a white guy and I asked him if he thinks straight hair or curly hair is sexier and he says, "It depends on the person." I ask him specifically if he thinks black women are sexier with their hair relaxed or natural and he said, "Curly, hands down."

So there you go. There is at least one attractive white male who thinks black women with curls are sexy, but he is taken so you are going to have to find another one.

:D :D


I'd be offended. Partly for cultural reasons. Partly because I have to go through hell and back to straighten my hair. And I get dry, splitty hair from these efforts :/

Just because your guy likes something that you don't have doesn't mean you need to change for him. That's kind of silly. Right? There is still sanity in this world, I hope. Ugh.

Bene
July 21st, 2012, 08:18 PM
I'd be offended. Partly for cultural reasons. Partly because I have to go through hell and back to straighten my hair. And I get dry, splitty hair from these efforts :/


That's the thing. I don't go through hell and back to straighten my hair. His preference doesn't (and shouldn't) affect what I choose to do with myself nor does it say anything about my hair's natural texture.


I prefer really tall guys. He's only 5'8. In the end, it doesn't matter.

barely.there
July 21st, 2012, 08:34 PM
I went to high school with this chick who straightened her hair *every day* to avoid her curls..


her naturally ***PERFECT*** Shirley Temple curls!!!

what a waste!!!!

holothuroidea
July 21st, 2012, 08:41 PM
I went to high school with this chick who straightened her hair *every day* to avoid her curls..


her naturally ***PERFECT*** Shirley Temple curls!!!

what a waste!!!!

My mom has those awesome Shirley Temple sausage curls on her ends that she brushes and blow dries and hairsprays until they are Farrah Fawcett waves.

But even Shirley Temple started brushing out her curls when she was a teenager.

jeanniet
July 21st, 2012, 08:52 PM
I hate to pull out the age card, but really this is just a sign of the times, and will pass. In the late 60s/early 70s, straight hair was in. Starting in about '75, and through the 80s, curly hair was in. Then it gradually went to the straight end again. I think people should be what they are, curly or straight. If your hair is curly, it seems like an awful lot of effort to go through to be something you're not, and maybe that's part of the problem. When so many curlies give in to the pressure to be straight, isn't that kind of sending the message that they believe the hype that curly can't be as good as straight? I say, embrace your curls and :patrol: anyone who doesn't like it.

Bene
July 21st, 2012, 08:54 PM
I hate to pull out the age card, but really this is just a sign of the times, and will pass. In the late 60s/early 70s, straight hair was in. Starting in about '75, and through the 80s, curly hair was in. Then it gradually went to the straight end again. I think people should be what they are, curly or straight. If your hair is curly, it seems like an awful lot of effort to go through to be something you're not, and maybe that's part of the problem. When so many curlies give in to the pressure to be straight, isn't that kind of sending the message that they believe the hype that curly can't be as good as straight? I say, embrace your curls and :patrol: anyone who doesn't like it.


The age card is very relevant in the matter. I approve :D

Cloelia
July 21st, 2012, 08:59 PM
CurlyCurves, one of my biggest hair idols of all time is Bernadette Peters. Who in the 80's had waist length, super curly red hair. And every stage production I've seen her in, she looked drop-dead glamorous. Not wild or exotic or unprofessional, but strong and elegant. Part of my LHC journey has been realizing that I'll never have that kind of hair no matter how many chemicals or herbs I put on my head. Just to give you the flip side of this. :)
Men as a group looove big boobs, so we're told, but my husband actually prefers small boobs. And I could go on ad nauseam. Dudes and ladies with a spiteful streak who tell you things that make you feel insecure, are not cool people. They should definitely be avoided like the insecurity plague they are. Just remember, if someone tells you to straighten your hair and you don't want to, it's just like saying you should go get a boob job. Not cool, and probably worthy of a borderline-rude brushoff. My two cents, anways.

HintOfMint
July 21st, 2012, 09:22 PM
I'm pretty sure men are "big picture" guys. It's not the individual feature, it's how it all works together.

I've seen pictures of you in other threads and honestly, you look like a perfect doll with curls.

Honestly, all this worrying and micromanaging over small details of what men like and don't like is the opposite of empowering. This just breeds needless insecurity. You're fine. You're more than fine. Please don't worry.

jeanniet
July 21st, 2012, 09:29 PM
The age card is very relevant in the matter. I approve :D
The decrepit old lady thanks you! :rockerdud

Amapola
July 21st, 2012, 09:43 PM
Wow. I ADORE curly hair. And, I would NEVER tell someone else how they should wear their hair! Where are people's manners?! It is none of their business.

Other people told Elton John that he would never be a musician and could not play. Other people told Ursula K. leGuin that she could not write. I could go on, but basically, other people need to get a life and mind their own business.

I have hair so straight it's scary and believe me, you don't want that. Your curls are stunning and don't let anyone tell you different.

spirals
July 21st, 2012, 10:11 PM
Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. I have always loved curly hair. My hair was completely straight before puberty. It progressively got wavier until it started to curl. It's something I've always hoped for...

Are you a member of Naturallycurly.com? You may want to try there for support. There are tons of ways to feel better through the forums.It's like I wrote this post, except I was probably a closet wavy as a child. I always wanted dark 3Bs like CurlyCurves'. Then I developed crazy frizz in junior high school, onlyt to discover I had curls! (I moved from the desert to humidity). I have no idea what the media think. I don't know what men think of my curls; they usually talk about my eyes or something else. Women are the ones who compliment my hair. I like my hair. I don't much care what others think, actually. That happens when you're over 30. At 19 all I cared about was what others thought of my appearance.

ahrph
July 21st, 2012, 10:32 PM
You know, I was thinking about something similar the other day. On Princess Diaries, they take the gawky girl with the frizzy hair and transform her into a princess with shiny straight hair. I was thinking that curls are pretty too. Why not go that direction with the look?

I adore your curls CurlyCurves. I would like mine to be curlier, but they're just not going to get there.

Seeshami
July 21st, 2012, 10:56 PM
When ever you change something about yourself that is normally there people notice and they of course say something. Because it is different and they notice it is equated to good normally.

The first time any one sees me wearing make up they do this "holycraplikeOMG!" thing and insist on telling me it looks good. Very much like when the naughty mess spits out it's taming devices and laughs manically as he uncontains himself and is a big poofy curly/wavy mess people like that too. It annoys me to no end, crazy naughty mess all over the place trying to take me hostage is not a good look and it falls flat in five minutes anyways.

MandyBeth
July 21st, 2012, 11:27 PM
I'd be offended. Partly for cultural reasons. Partly because I have to go through hell and back to straighten my hair. And I get dry, splitty hair from these efforts :/

I know way too many guys - including DH - who would hear the question and think "Crap, no right answer, which does she prefer, dang. Um, she smiles more when the first option is there, so one."

Given my hubby said "As long as you leave the carpet alone, I don't care what you do with the drapes." and really can't say how he likes my hair other than that. Then length, he says none or long enough for pigtails. And he wants to know why I am asking these questions at midnight.

DarkCurls
July 22nd, 2012, 11:56 AM
You have gorgeous hair CurlyCurves.

*sigh* I hate this subject. My mother, as I've said somewhere else, doesn't really appreciate my curls. I think if it were anyone else I wouldn't care, because I don't care what other people think about the way I look. I really like my hair, and I love curls on other people, too. But it hurts that my mother thinks I look better when my hair is straightened.
I think it's nonsense. I find curls vibrant and full of life. I find waves mermaid-y and beautiful. I find straight hair sleek and neat and swish-able. :pinktongue: . In my (limited, high school age) experience, many people don't like curly hair, some do, some (sensible) people don't care either way.

SheaLynne
July 22nd, 2012, 12:44 PM
Don't worry, they'll be in style eventually and all the straight-haired girls will be mocked because that's just how society is.

Yep. That was my experience up to age 19...hence, all the perms I had from age 7 and up....


My mom has those awesome Shirley Temple sausage curls on her ends that she brushes and blow dries and hairsprays until they are Farrah Fawcett waves.

But even Shirley Temple started brushing out her curls when she was a teenager.

Hmmm...I thought she had curls because they put in 52 pin curls every night, so she just stopped the curling?


I hate to pull out the age card, but really this is just a sign of the times, and will pass. In the late 60s/early 70s, straight hair was in. Starting in about '75, and through the 80s, curly hair was in. Then it gradually went to the straight end again. I think people should be what they are, curly or straight. If your hair is curly, it seems like an awful lot of effort to go through to be something you're not, and maybe that's part of the problem. When so many curlies give in to the pressure to be straight, isn't that kind of sending the message that they believe the hype that curly can't be as good as straight? I say, embrace your curls and :patrol: anyone who doesn't like it.

Yep. If I had it to live over, I would not perm and would learn to work with the hair I had naturally. We are actually on the trend back toward curly being in style, but it takes a few years for it to gradually work back in.


You know, I was thinking about something similar the other day. On Princess Diaries, they take the gawky girl with the frizzy hair and transform her into a princess with shiny straight hair.

Ahh, yes, and in the '80s and early '90s every young woman character portrayed as beautiful had curly hair, and even in the "period" pieces, they ironically had curly hair and today you see the period pieces with straight hair...not authentic to the period at all but to when it was produced and what will be seen as beautiful by that audience at that particular time.

Hope that puts it in perspective a bit. Since you have grown up in a straight-hair era, you've suffered the effects of that, and I'm sorry for that. I tell my curly dd that I would have died to have her hair as a teenager, and I am hoping she will enjoy curly being in fashion when she is a teen (she's 7, so there is hope!). But, in-fashion or not, I am instilling in her how very beautiful her curls are and that they are worth all the detangling and extras she endures (people already comment on how much work it must be). I just hope that she'll be authentic and love what she has.

HTH!

Hippie Chick 3
July 22nd, 2012, 12:51 PM
I know - when I straighten my hair, everybody's first comment is, "I love your hair - you look so much younger!" Which yes, makes me insecure about my curls. Hmph.

FrannyG
July 22nd, 2012, 12:52 PM
I'm a straighty, but I hope you don't mind my chiming in. I can tell you for sure that there are a lot of young white men who adore curls and I mean really curly curls. I know this because I know a lot of young white men. I also know many young women of colour and some Caucasian women with curlier hair than yours, and they certainly do not lack for male attention.

I would be very surprised if people in your family and friends have reinforced to you just how beautiful your hair really is in its natural state. It sounds to me as though you've allowed some outside voices to mess with your head and I get that.

However, a lot of men say that they find curly hair sexy, and among those who don't, that will not hinder them when they meet a woman to whom they are attracted. That much I do know.

A lot of people think they are attracted to a particular type, but that goes out the window when they meet a certain person who changes all of that. Everything about you becomes attractive and sexy.

I won't lie. There are and always will be some men who don't like curls, just as there are some men who don't like blondes. The way I figure it, you wouldn't want those guys anyway.

Who you are is far more important than what texture your hair is. You just may be projecting a better self-image when you straighten your hair, due to things you've been told, and that might be why you are treated differently when you straighten.

When you start projecting the same self-confidence and/or sexiness with your natural hair, then you will see a change in how people respond. I really believe that. :blossom:

DarkCurls
July 22nd, 2012, 12:52 PM
I know - when I straighten my hair, everybody's first comment is, "I love your hair - you look so much younger!" Which yes, makes me insecure about my curls. Hmph.

I've never heard that one before. Anyone have an explanation?

HappyHair87
July 22nd, 2012, 12:59 PM
My bf loves my hair either way and that's all that matters to me:)

If i even mention anything about cutting it tho...he'll have a fit:lol: even a small trim lol!!

I don't care about the media or trends as much anymore. Society is so demoralized now, who are the media to tell me what to look like? Put! Screw them!

FrannyG
July 22nd, 2012, 01:18 PM
Hmmm...I thought she had curls because they put in 52 pin curls every night, so she just stopped the curling?


From Shirley Temple Black's own words, what you say is true.



You have gorgeous hair CurlyCurves.

*sigh* I hate this subject. My mother, as I've said somewhere else, doesn't really appreciate my curls. I think if it were anyone else I wouldn't care, because I don't care what other people think about the way I look. I really like my hair, and I love curls on other people, too. But it hurts that my mother thinks I look better when my hair is straightened.
I think it's nonsense. I find curls vibrant and full of life. I find waves mermaid-y and beautiful. I find straight hair sleek and neat and swish-able. :pinktongue: . In my (limited, high school age) experience, many people don't like curly hair, some do, some (sensible) people don't care either way.

I will never understand mothers who don't teach their children to embrace themselves just the way they are. I just don't get it.

I was a teen in the late '70s, and I was strongly encouraged by my mother to get perms, which I ended up doing for all 5 years of high school (high school was a 5 year program back then in my province for people heading to University). So I had my perm, but still had to use a curling iron every day to get my hair to look decent. I could never grown it longer than my shoulder and I often had split ends.

I let my kids know that they were fine the way they were. They could do whatever they wanted with their hair, and primarily, they let it be. Now they're both young adults, and they are fine with their own looks and their own hair.

vanillabones
July 22nd, 2012, 03:21 PM
To each their own, I think curly hair is beautiful and I would rather have wavies and curlies than pin straight hair all my life =) When my hair is long, I will curl it over night every night.

KwaveT
July 22nd, 2012, 03:38 PM
Most around me tell me by hair is unattractive because my hairy is wurly. Oh your hair would look so much better shorter is my mother's favorite comment. That is only because it looses its curl. I rather embrace my hair type not hide it. Do I think it could look better? Well yes. To detangle I end up seperating my wurls and they tend to explode on my hair rather than maintaining well defined uniform wurls once I send the comb and brush through them. I don't wash every day but I need to detangle every day. It tangles just about all way to scalp in the back. I just don't know what to do. Do I need to wet my hair every morning to reset the wurls? Especially in back my hair tends to spiral. My profile says 2a but I think my hair is more 2b to 2c.

lacefrost
July 22nd, 2012, 10:59 PM
I disagree. I know this has been your experience but it hasn't been mine. Admittedly I live in a city that is a hub of black people and while there are a lot of people relaxed, there are also a lot of people natural.

People love my "bad" hair. White men love it, some even fetishize it. (Well a lot do.) Black men of all ages love it. People of all races marvel at it. My biggest detractor has been my mother( "Don't you want to be pretty?" "I thought you liked looking elegant.") But she always criticizes me so it's nothing new.

One in a while I'll have someone say something accidentally or purposely insulting but I usually nip it in the bud.

straight haired person: wow, your hair is so big! It must be such a pain to take care of. If I had hair like that I'd straighten it every day.
me: not at all, it's really easy to do my hair. And every time my hair is straight, it just lays there and does nothing. It's pretty boring.

insulting love coach:if you want to find a man, you can't have hair like that!
me: Actually, I have two boyfriends. . .so. . .yeah. . .

insulting job coach: no job is gonna hire you with hair like that!
me: actually I have a professional job. . .working 40hrs a week. . .and I recently got promoted. . .so. . .

insulting person on the job: could you do something with your hair? it's distracting
me: it's only distracting to unprofessional people. So far, everyone's been able to focus on the task at hand

insulting jealous person: that's got to be a wig
me: nope
ijp: (reaches for my hair) you sure it's not a wig? it's totally a wig
me: (slaps hands away) I would know. it's my hair. I grew it. But thanks for the compliment. I know there are women who pay to have hair like mine.

I'm sure the few times I wear my hair out (these days), that people overhear these conversations and decide to not partake in them themselves. Sometimes people will be complimentary to my hair and I will thank them and say something like, "Yeah but I don't like wearing it out because everyone violates my bubble." Which puts everyone within hearing distance on notice.

I will say that the longer my hair gets, the more complimentary people are. When it was chin length (and NOT CUTE), I got more insults than compliments. My advice is to let your hair grow and sharpen your tongue.

spirals
July 22nd, 2012, 11:21 PM
lacefrost, I really like your hair in your sig pic. I've always liked that style, and I don't think it looks unprofessional at all. It looks well taken care of to me.

Natalia
July 23rd, 2012, 12:37 AM
just my 2 cents but i think girls with curls or heck texture of any kind are darn sexy :eyebrows: ! maybe i am biased though as my hair is more limp than a dead flower and rarely holds texture for more than a few hours. im also from so-cal and am sick of seeing the hollywood flat iron standard of beauty.

Quixii
July 23rd, 2012, 12:47 AM
Well, maybe it's a good thing that I've never ever had straight hair so I can't be told that my hair looks better straight. :D
I don't know. I definitely get that curly hair is often not portrayed nicely. But I think it's beautiful and I love my curly hair and I wouldn't want it any other way. My boyfriend makes me feel sexy, and my friends think my hair is pretty, so... :shrug:

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 12:49 AM
It's because straight hair looks cleaner and neater, more preened and perfect.

DarkCurls
July 23rd, 2012, 02:34 AM
It's because straight hair looks cleaner and neater, more preened and perfect.

Cleaner? I'm going to take offense to that. The rest I understand (and I agree that straight hair looks "neater" because straight lines are considered neater than pretty squigglies). "Perfect" is subjective, so I'll leave that alone, too. But cleaner? How does curly hair look dirtier than straight hair? :p

Blackout
July 23rd, 2012, 04:39 AM
Cleaner? I'm going to take offense to that. The rest I understand (and I agree that straight hair looks "neater" because straight lines are considered neater than pretty squigglies). "Perfect" is subjective, so I'll leave that alone, too. But cleaner? How does curly hair look dirtier than straight hair? :p

To be honest I know some unlucky straight haired people whose hair looks dirty 1 hour after the shampoo :(

Also curls are not so openly discriminated here in Italy, mine are often complimented, even if they are nothing special.
I agree with you CurlyCurves, healthy hair, straight or curly, is sexy. Your curls looks lovely to me, they are shiny and well defined:)

CornishMaid
July 23rd, 2012, 04:44 AM
Wow, I have never had that problem. Most of my experience has been with straight haired people telling me that i am so lucky & they would love to have curly hair, or telling me that their curls are not natural and they perm it. Maybe its a geographical thing? I am in uk.

MintChocChip
July 23rd, 2012, 04:57 AM
I have straightish hair so maybe I'm not the best person to reply to this however I think it's very sad that there is this idea that curly hair isn't attractive. I personally think curly hair is very attractive and sexy, whatever the curl pattern! Although I don't believe everyone has this mentality, there was a girl in my tutor group at school who had the most amazing tight curls like yours CurlyCurves and everyone adored her hair! We all thought it was amazing (because the majority of us had straight hair and we wished we could have hair as curly and amazing as hers!)

In 5 years I never once saw her with straight or even looser curls. A close friend of mine has naturally curly hair and personally doesn't like it, she straightens it but whenever it gets rained on all of her friends say how much they love her curly hair and how she should keep it that way because it's so pretty and sexy (me included!)

So, perhaps there is this idea in the media, but I don't believe everyone shares this idea. There will be plenty of people who see your hair and think it's very sexy, very attractive! I'm sure the people who say you look better with straight hair are probably just jealous of your gorgeous curls anyway and wish they had your hair!

newbeginning
July 23rd, 2012, 05:09 AM
I think curly hair is awesome. I've got wavy hair and many times I have wished that my hair was curly. I think curly hair is beautiful. Whenever I see someone with beautiful, natural curls I must admit I get a little jealous because it looks so great. I never understood why someone who had such an interesting hair texture would want to straighten their hair. Maybe some of those with curly hair straighten it because often people want what they don't have (hence me wanting curly hair when it's wavy so curly haired people sometimes want it straight).

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 06:19 AM
It's because straight hair looks cleaner and neater, more preened and perfect.

Uh, could we have some context for this please?

I am hoping it was sarcasm.

afu
July 23rd, 2012, 06:26 AM
I get people saying my curls are 'cute' or 'wild and out of control' - but it's never 'beautiful' or 'sexy' or 'classy'. I've given up on the sexy look, I don't think i can pull it off!

From personal experience, curls are way more unpredictable than straight hair and I think thats one of the attractions of keeping hair straight/promoting straight hair. I think its also easier for hairdressers/stylists to promote straightened hair because if they cut the hair in a specific way for a specific look it can be re-created/maintained by daily straightening. On the other hand if they cut a curly girls hair when its wet and 'straight' - the day to day look of that cut is unlikely to resemble what the stylist had in mind if it is left to curl naturally!

ariesfairies
July 23rd, 2012, 07:14 AM
Yeah I used to straighten my hair heaps because of this too. If straightening wasn't the cause of my massive hair damage, I'd still be doing it now. Straight hair is definitely most attractive to the majority no matter what.

When any girl I knew ever said she wanted curls, she always implied it "temporarily". I ask my friend "Would you ask for curly hair if you could get it?". She simply said "it's pretty but I might not suit it". Strange for her to say, because her square face shape says curly hair is flattering to counteract straight angles? :/ She obviously wouldn't want to put up with it, I know - she's just too nice to say despite her saying my curls are "beautiful and should stay as it is". She knows straight hair is most attractive and I feel it in myself that it is too. It's part of our nature? Females, males.. they favour hair that they can run through their fingers like a waterfall. With curls, your fingers stop short and you pull and tug and the experience for either the person touching it, or the curly haired person is not as pleasant any more. You'll get the few people who'll like it, and not just because the grass is greener. But not often. Straighter hair has higher sexual value. Our internal biology says we want to be with the clean, tidy, healthy looking one so if their hair is slick straight one would have more confidence with their mating decisions (:P).

Holothuroidea, I kinda have to agree that that's what most people feel as shocking as that sounds - it's honesty from the psyche for many, and not everyone wants to admit that's their impression; just like my friend for that example. I've had girls in elementary call my curly hair ugly and gross and I've always been that germ and health conscious freak - no way was I dirty or unkempt, but the girls obviously saw my unruly hair texture and took it this way. Of course in adulthood we aren't in elementary anymore, but I can readily assume back in the minds of these now "grown up" people, their sentiments are the same.

MissAlida
July 23rd, 2012, 07:39 AM
Many girls use flat irons to straighten their hair.It seems to be trendy. I always liked the silkiness and shine of straight hair, but I have curls. When they dry nicely, I get lots of compliments on my hair. A couple of girls even said to me that they envy my curly hair. Also, I had guys grab my hair gently from behind, and tell me that it looked sexy. Curly, wavy or straight, I guess it doesen't matter, as long as it's shiny, healthy and soft. At least where I live ( eastern Europe). Tough I did find, that guys prefer long hair on women, as opposed to pixies (which is sad, honestly, because I had a pixie, and I'm still tempted to cut my hair again).:)

Arya
July 23rd, 2012, 07:41 AM
Curly hair is unkempt and messy and wild.
Blondes are dumb.
Red heads are sexy firey and crazy.
Grey hair is horrible and needs to be hidden.
Girls with black hair and pale skin are witches and goths.
Dirty blonde is dishwater blonde.
Light ash brown is mousey.
Flat hair is lifeless.
Afros are political.
Type 4 hair is bad hair or "nappy".
Cornrows are for thugs and gangsters.
Dreads are filthy.
Very long hair is disgusting and/or for strippers.
Very short hair is mannish.

Did I cover them all? Basically it has to be conventionally attractive hair (not a man-hating feminist!!) but not overtly sexy (omg slut!) commonly found in western europe. Handily, this oppresses both women and minorities, and also supports the hair product industry. Hurrayyyy!

DarkCurls
July 23rd, 2012, 07:54 AM
[snip]She knows straight hair is most attractive and I feel it in myself that it is too. [snip]
Holothuroidea, I kinda have to agree that that's what most people feel as shocking as that sounds - it's honesty from the psyche for many, and not everyone wants to admit that's their impression; just like my friend for that example. I've had girls in elementary call my curly hair ugly and gross and I've always been that germ and health conscious freak - no way was I dirty or unkempt, but the girls obviously saw my unruly hair texture and took it this way. Of course in adulthood we aren't in elementary anymore, but I can readily assume back in the minds of these now "grown up" people, their sentiments are the same.
I find that first sentence so sad. I don't think straight hair is most attractive as a general rule. It depends on the person. I know I prefer curly hair.
Pretty horrified by the last paragraph, too.

EDIT: This thread makes me think of the "Hall of Shame (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/hall-shame-discussion/)" sub-forum at naturallycurly. It's actually a big enough issue to merit its own sub-forum. So I do think many people don't like curly hair.

Falcore
July 23rd, 2012, 08:17 AM
It's because straight hair looks cleaner and neater, more preened and perfect. So curly hair is dirty and imperfect? Ouch!


Straighter hair has higher sexual value. Our internal biology says we want to be with the clean, tidy, healthy looking one so if their hair is slick straight one would have more confidence with their mating decisions You have something to back this up with?

For ME I appreciate all textures of hair be it straight/wavy/curly. I think the world would be pretty bland if it only consisted of one hair type. Having all the varieties makes it interesting. :)

GoblinTart
July 23rd, 2012, 08:34 AM
My husband thinks my curls are sexy.
When i was working, anytime I would emphasize my curls, I would get lots of compliments.

Curls are very attractive in,my opinion.

ariesfairies
July 23rd, 2012, 08:35 AM
I find that first sentence so sad. I don't think straight hair is most attractive as a general rule. It depends on the person. I know I prefer curly hair.
Pretty horrified by the last paragraph, too.

EDIT: This thread makes me think of the "Hall of Shame" sub-forum at naturallycurly. It's actually a big enough issue to merit its own sub-forum. So I do think many people don't like curly hair.

Oh well to clarify, I do appreciate wearing my hair curly! It's a bit of a balancing act, but if I do like my curly hair more that it is much nicer sleek, undamaged and curly, than frizzled and jet straight.

Though I attribute having curly hair as something that people will like, but only temporarily. To draw from anyone's experience or thoughts, I admit myself if I had hair curls as tight and fluffy as something in the tighter 3's and 4's, I'd enjoy it for maybe something like a few weeks. Curls is usually a temporary thing. One would put their hair in curlers for their wedding, but they'll make sure it's straight when they're on a date, out at work etc. Not speaking for all (and obviously, with anything general like this, I never will). All I can say it's something that is easier to compliment than it is to fall out :P I'll feel the urge to compliment a beautiful bushel of ringlets any day. Same I would with a certain hairdo though - it's pretty, as something for everyday... yeah I don't know really :(




You have something to back this up with?


Not on me now, no :p I should have got something though, that was very pretentious of me. I'll get back to you on that!


ETA:

On my search for the detail on evolutionary source, although it's not what I'm looking for, I found this and thought it might be interesting to share on curly hair :P

Part of what has kept natural curls under wraps, says Jonathan Torch, who has been styling curly hair in Toronto since the '80s, is the general perception of it. "You always see it as frizzy and damaged," he says. "It has the illusion of messy." In fact, Western civilization has a long history of derision toward hair that appears to have a mind of its own. According to Greek mythology, Medusa could turn to stone anyone who dared lay eyes on her head of writhing serpents. The nefarious, sensual power of curls is also evident in our retelling of the story of Adam and Eve. As Penny Howell Jolly, an art history professor at Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., observes in her essay "Dangerous Hair," while Biblical accounts don't discuss Eve's hair, "artists frequently depict her with sinuous curls, alluding to the notion that Eve seduced Adam into sin." (Mendleson, R. (2010). The lost art of curl maintenance. Maclean's, 123(11/12), 82-83.)

There's something wrong now if we've got to attribute curly hair as "bad" down to this level! :laugh:

Bambi
July 23rd, 2012, 09:12 AM
I have 2b-2c hair and I always loved my wurls/curls during my early teens mostly because of my addiction to history;). Then when I got older and everyone started to straighten their hairs I couldn't resist to try it myself. Thousands of bleached highlights later my hair was in a devastating condition..I had to cut it..to a pixie..When I started to grow it out I rediscovered my natural texture..I was thrilled!
Now as my hair has grown I cannot hide the fact that I used to straighten it for a year ago but have finally embraced my wurly curls again. Honestly I feel much more confident when I keep it as it should be..My mum loves my curls and I have received nice comments from the most unlikely places. Maybe it is different in Sweden than in the U.S?
One of my darling friends has blonde, waist long, 3a curls and it is amazing! She is a real inspiration!
In the end I believe it is what makes you feel the most beautiful and confident that really matters, not what other people think. If you don't find wurls/curls classy watch "Priceless"(org. title "Hors de Prix") with Audrey Tautou and see if you feel better.
Love to you all!

Falcore
July 23rd, 2012, 09:19 AM
Well, if it is correct (addmitingly skeptical) I wonder how the men felt in the 80's when it was all about perms and big hair! LOL!

Maverick494
July 23rd, 2012, 09:33 AM
There's nothing more beautiful to me than a head of healthy long hair, whether it's straight, curly or somewhere in between.

I think naturally curly hair can look stunning when long (though it takes a while to get there, considering the length those curls suck up ;-) ) because of the volume. Remember Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman? I love that hair. Also, the older Gliss Kur commercials always featured a woman with beautiful curly hair (true curls, not styled ones). I always thought that was the best one.

Also, I think the pin straight hair preference is just a trend. Every era had one. In the 80's it was massive volume, now it's shine and straightness. Straight hair does have more tendency to shine, but it's also flatter, which is a downside when you don't have massively thick hair. Dead ends show much more on that type of hair as well, while curls seem to conceal them. Every hair type has it's pro's and cons.

So basically, enjoy your hair for what it is. As long as it's well cared for and well maintained, it will be beautiful.

Oh and PS. not everyone is partial to straight hair. Last week it had been raining in the morning and when it stopped my hair dried into a curly texture. Two girls stopped to say how they loved how my hair looked. I never got those comments with straightened hair.

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 09:49 AM
Ahhhh, I knew when I first read this thread that the ultimate modern excuse for sexism and bigotry would rear it's ugly head sooner or later.

Oh, lovely lovely evo-psych. Everyone's favorite bias-confirming pseudoscience.

Bambi
July 23rd, 2012, 10:18 AM
I forgot to mention that I love men with curly hair! It's so adorable! Don't see that many around unfortunately..wonder if they feel pressure to straighten their hair as many women do?

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 10:27 AM
I forgot to mention that I love men with curly hair! It's so adorable! Don't see that many around unfortunately..wonder if they feel pressure to straighten their hair as many women do?

I think many men (if not the majority) with curly hair keep it too short for it to develop a curl pattern.

I think curls are somehow seen as "unmanly" which doesn't make any kind of sense. :rolleyes:

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 11:43 AM
Its funny because although I have curly hair, I don't really think about being a "curly haired person". I personally think if I could have my same thick hair but have it be straight, I would do so in a heart beat. I get the same thick and straihgt results when i blow dry or flat iron, but it is so damaging and leaves my hair in terrible condition, its not worth it sadly. I don't feel like curls suit me, I like the way straight hair frames my face and I truthfully resent my curls soemtimes, I just try not to think about it. I won't go curly girl because I am scared of having super curly hair, it just doesn't look right on me. I don't think it is unatractive by ANY means, curls are beautiful. and mine are too, from the back. I just hate how they look on me. I hate the mentality that curls are not as beautiful as straight hair, soemtimes, straight hair can be boring and sometimes curly hair can be too wild, its facts of having these textures and society just needs to stop pushing one standard of beauty on everyone. I will never have smooth, straight hair, its not in my genes and even with heat it never last more than a few hours, I will never know what its like to have my hair move like silk and I will always want to know, but a straight haired girl will also never know what its like to look like a lion in humidity, think of that.:D

Deborah
July 23rd, 2012, 11:57 AM
I think that a preference for straight or curly hair is entirely subjective, and not based on anything more than one's own opinion. Unfortunately there are hair 'fads' that come and go over the years. Whatever is deemed to be 'in' is deemed to be more attractive, but as soon as the fad changes, then the new 'in' thing is considered more attractive, and the old 'in' thing is considered unattractive. The look of the hair has not changed, but the beauty of it is deemed to have changed because the fad has moved on to something else.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

I figure that God created people with many different levels of curliness or straightness, so He must like them all, and consider them all beautiful. So, I'll just agree with Him. When we can accept our hair for what it is, then we can all have beautiful hair, straight, curly, dark, light, grey, silky, coarse, thicker, thinner, etc. We don't need one another's approval, just God's (already given) and our own, which we need to become wise enough to give ourselves.

newbeginning
July 23rd, 2012, 02:43 PM
[quote=Deborah;2227470]I think that a preference for straight or curly hair is entirely subjective, and not based on anything more than one's own opinion. Unfortunately there are hair 'fads' that come and go over the years. Whatever is deemed to be 'in' is deemed to be more attractive, but as soon as the fad changes, then the new 'in' thing is considered more attractive, and the old 'in' thing is considered unattractive. The look of the hair has not changed, but the beauty of it is deemed to have changed because the fad has moved on to something else.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

This exactly. For those who follow/care about trends this seems to be the thinking. I don't follow trends at all and think all different types of hair are beautiful.

Neecola
July 23rd, 2012, 03:38 PM
By strange coincidence, I was thinking today that one of the best things I have learned from LHC is accepting my hair and even learning to love it as it is. I get my curly hair from my father who kept his so short, you couldn't tell. My sisters and mother all have straight hair and I always felt envious of their "normal" hair. And of course, my mother had no idea how to take care of curly hair and so treated it like my sisters and it was a frizzy awful mess most of the time. I cried over it more times than I care to admit!

As a young adult, I always tried to make my hair look more "normal" (I didn't know any other curlies) by brushing it and pulling it into a ponytail all of the time. I finally became so discouraged with the way it looked (though I loved how it felt!), I chopped it all off and pretty much kept a pixie cut until last year, when I started growing it again.

I've had to accept that my hair is wild, that I will have some degree of frizz and that my hair lacks the "polish" that other heads of hair may have (despite still spending a large amount of time on my hair!) But my hair has personality and it is unique and I am finding that by working with my natural curl and not against it, that it can be quite beautiful. Once I began to take care of my hair properly, it became a matter of my perception needing change, not my hair.

So thank you, my fellow curlies, for showing me the light :grouphug:

rena
July 23rd, 2012, 04:21 PM
Curly hair is unkempt and messy and wild.
Blondes are dumb.
Red heads are sexy firey and crazy.
Grey hair is horrible and needs to be hidden.
Girls with black hair and pale skin are witches and goths.
Dirty blonde is dishwater blonde.
Light ash brown is mousey.
Flat hair is lifeless.
Afros are political.
Type 4 hair is bad hair or "nappy".
Cornrows are for thugs and gangsters.
Dreads are filthy.
Very long hair is disgusting and/or for strippers.
Very short hair is mannish.

Did I cover them all? Basically it has to be conventionally attractive hair (not a man-hating feminist!!) but not overtly sexy (omg slut!) commonly found in western europe. Handily, this oppresses both women and minorities, and also supports the hair product industry. Hurrayyyy!


This. Totally.

I like to think of curls as the "curves" of the hair-world, personally :).

rena
July 23rd, 2012, 04:24 PM
Wow, I have never had that problem. Most of my experience has been with straight haired people telling me that i am so lucky & they would love to have curly hair, or telling me that their curls are not natural and they perm it. Maybe its a geographical thing? I am in uk.

That's interesting CM, as I think the OP lives in the UK too, but I could be wrong.

misspurdy06
July 23rd, 2012, 04:33 PM
It could be that your hair just looks longer when it's straight and thats why they think you look sexier.

Just a thought.

Falcore
July 23rd, 2012, 05:05 PM
I think that a preference for straight or curly hair is entirely subjective, and not based on anything more than one's own opinion. Unfortunately there are hair 'fads' that come and go over the years. Whatever is deemed to be 'in' is deemed to be more attractive, but as soon as the fad changes, then the new 'in' thing is considered more attractive, and the old 'in' thing is considered unattractive. The look of the hair has not changed, but the beauty of it is deemed to have changed because the fad has moved on to something else.

I totally agree to this - well said!

MagicalMystery
July 23rd, 2012, 05:11 PM
I've always had girls ask me what my hair looks like straight. Straight hair is a mainstream trend, and I've had people ignorantly ask me why I got a perm. I was born this way and it shall stay this way. I'm proud of my curls. They're unique. I know so many girls who spend hours a day straightening their hair, only to have it destroyed by the outdoors. I never bothered. I never felt inclined to try wearing it straight because I tend to avoid fads.

Vani1902
July 23rd, 2012, 05:28 PM
Everyone could probably pick up cues from around them about what is sexy or not. It's not just about curly hair or straight hair.

Woman with pale skin are complimented when they get a tan,
woman with small boobs are complimented when they wear a push up bra,
then there's the compliments you get when you lose 10 lbs,
and the compliments you get when you decide to wear a dress when you usually wear pants,
or when you wear make-up when you usually don't,
or when you switch your flats for heels,
or get your teeth straightened.

The list goes on FOREVER. I'm not going to change everything about myself just to make people see me as more sexy or sleek or whatever, because I will always find something lacking. And I'm not going to become insecure about every little thing about me that doesn't fit someone's preference.

If a guy doesn't find you sexy with curly hair then you are not his type, get over it!
I don't think blonde guys are attractive, doesn't mean they should all go dye their hair to fit in with my ideal, because there are girls out there who are attracted to it!

I think curly hair is amazing! :blossom:
THIS!!!!
People have their opinion on beauty. Forget about whether or not you hair is "sexy". Life is too short! Don't try to fit into someone else's standards. Embrace you hair and have fun.
In regards to guys, don't worry about it. I have a tighter hair texture than you and I have had never had trouble with guys. A great guy will look beyond your hair.

Vani1902
July 23rd, 2012, 05:31 PM
It's because straight hair looks cleaner and neater, more preened and perfect.
hmmm....I wash my hair multiple times a week. I have to disagree with that statement. ;)

salamander
July 23rd, 2012, 05:33 PM
One thing I've noticed is that women in comics or animation often have wavy or curly hair, particularly ones who are supposed to come off as really attractive. It may just be a comic artist thing, but there's definitely a group of people out there who picture an attractive woman and include a lot of hair volume!

Tisiloves
July 23rd, 2012, 05:35 PM
I think hair is most attractive when you work with it not against it. Artificially straightening/curling tends to lead to damage and/or frizz. Even if I no heat curl my hair the whole lot devolves into frizz and a bit of a body wave within a hours as my hair spits it back out again.

(Also the less we speak of my "thing" for curly hair the better :oops:)

GabrielleRose
July 23rd, 2012, 05:38 PM
This has been on my mind for a while now, and I just wanted to express myself, and perhaps get some other people's opinions/thoughts on the matter.

All my life, whenever I straighten my hair, I get told it looks better. Or I should do it more often. When I look to the media, there's negative curly stereotypes everywhere, and curly hair is often representated only by wavy hair or artificially curled hair. We get told that our hair is hard work, or hear other curlies tell everyone curly hair is a nightmare. I constantly hear other curlies say they straighten their hair daily, and that they hate their curly hair.

I feel I am treated better when my hair is straightened, found to be more attractive. Taken more seriously. I am attracted to white men, and I get more looks from them when my hair is straight.

I am told my curly hair makes me look 'fun', cute, open. I am not told it makes me look sexy or seductive.

When I have seen men asked which they prefer, an overwhelming majority say they prefer straight hair, or loose curls.

I love my curls, but I am starting to feel insecure about them. Me, of all people. I sometimes crave straight hair, and I don't know why. I love curly hair, and I love mine. I certainly feel sexy when I have a good hair day.

But all this time, in the back of my mind, there is just this little voice reminding me that, while some people may think curly hair is nice, not many people think it's sexy. Many think it's unprofessional, or wild, or 'cute', or just plain not as attractive as straight hair.

I'm not going to lie, it kind of burns. Why is it like this? Why can't all hair types, as long as they're healthy, be regarded as sexy? I personally think any long, healthy hair is sexy. The emphasis is on health, for me, not curl, or lack thereof (though, I do have a special place in my heart for long frizz-free type 2c-3c hair).

Thoughts? Any fellow curlies, how do you feel about this?


I'm sorry that you have to feel like your curls are not seen as sexy. I'm a straight haired gal but would love to rock those curly locks. I am one who thinks curls are SEXY on both men and women. I don't care for straight hair at all, I'm more attracted to someone with curls. My boyfriend has wavy hair that I think is beautiful and I just can't stand it when he says he wants it straight. When he straightens it I prefer him to wear it curly. My past girlfriend had luscious curls, but she would straighten it too and hear people tell her she should do it more often. I feel curls look so much better, they're just exotic to me.

CurlyCurves
July 23rd, 2012, 05:51 PM
Wow! This thread got more replies than I expected!

Well, first, a big thank you to everyone for contributing. I read every post, and it was very interesting to hear (read?) everyone's POV.

A big thank you, also, to the people who complimented me, and curly hair in general :)

Now, to clarify, I do not think I am unattractive because I have curly hair. I don't think I need to change my hair type to attract men, nor do I think every man desires straight hair on his woman. I have not yet met a man who has been so turned off by my curls that he hasn't been attracted to me, nor do I get told my hair is unattractive. Honestly, I don't.

It's hard to explain how I feel about this. I don't know if I even understand it myself :shrug:

ETA; Ridiculously, I still find myself feeling sad that I can't straighten my hair anymore. I want it both ways. I have sworn off heat, perhaps forever, because it loosened my curls these past two weeks. I am getting them back now, but it scared me. But I still feel immensly sad that I can't straighten my hair anymore :( :(

CurlyCurves
July 23rd, 2012, 05:58 PM
That's interesting CM, as I think the OP lives in the UK too, but I could be wrong.

Yes, I do :)


It could be that your hair just looks longer when it's straight and thats why they think you look sexier.

Just a thought.

Perhaps. That is a thought. I think I look better/prettier with longer hair. I think when it's super long, it'll be sexy as ...

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 06:03 PM
*snip*It's hard to explain how I feel about this. I don't know if I even understand it myself :shrug:

Maybe it's the widespread perception about curly hair in spite of obvious evidence to the contrary?

I personally find it very frustrating and I don't even have curly hair.

CurlyCurves
July 23rd, 2012, 06:09 PM
It's because straight hair looks cleaner and neater, more preened and perfect.

Wow. Just wow.

Number one, why are you stating this like it's a fact and not just your opinion.

Do you not realise how hurtful the way you said that is?

So, my hair inherently looks dirty, messy, unpreened and imperfect, just because it's curly?

Wow. Just ... wow.

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 06:16 PM
hmmm....I wash my hair multiple times a week. I have to disagree with that statement. ;)

I'm actually taking about composition, not physical cleanliness. Beauty or attractiveness has very little to do with the latter.

HintOfMint
July 23rd, 2012, 06:23 PM
/snip


Not on me now, no :p I should have got something though, that was very pretentious of me. I'll get back to you on that!


ETA:

On my search for the detail on evolutionary source, although it's not what I'm looking for/ snip

:

I'd take the time to learn to not believe everything you read. I don't mean this in a snarky way. It's really amazing how much oppression (for lack of a better term) women can take under the guise of evolutionary psychology because SCIENCE DUH.
This is not the first time evo-psych has been used to denigrate one physical aspect or another. Not too long ago, someone gorgeous on this forum was worried sick that her waist-to-hip ratio didn't look like the ideal that it actually was by measurements. While waist-to-hip ratios are actually one of the few almost universal aspects of female beauty, you honestly can't tell me that this excessive awareness (to be distinguished from mere knowledge) does much good.

Not to mention a good chunk of evo-psych is just wrong. Like, factually, wrong.

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 06:23 PM
I'm actually taking about composition, not physical cleanliness. Beauty or attractiveness has very little to do with the latter.

Would you mind taking a minute to explain yourself because I am still seriously confused by the things you are saying, and other people have expressed some hurt and confusion too.

lacefrost
July 23rd, 2012, 07:18 PM
snip
She knows straight hair is most attractive and I feel it in myself that it is too. It's part of our nature? Females, males.. they favour hair that they can run through their fingers like a waterfall. With curls, your fingers stop short and you pull and tug and the experience for either the person touching it, or the curly haired person is not as pleasant any more. You'll get the few people who'll like it, and not just because the grass is greener. But not often. Straighter hair has higher sexual value. Our internal biology says we want to be with the clean, tidy, healthy looking one so if their hair is slick straight one would have more confidence with their mating decisions (:P).

Holothuroidea, I kinda have to agree that that's what most people feel as shocking as that sounds - it's honesty from the psyche for many, and not everyone wants to admit that's their impression; just like my friend for that example. I've had girls in elementary call my curly hair ugly and gross and I've always been that germ and health conscious freak - no way was I dirty or unkempt, but the girls obviously saw my unruly hair texture and took it this way.

Two things:

Firstly, to the bolded, I have to disagree. It is not "natural" for people to want to run their hands through other people's hair. Perhaps it is natural for you but not for everyone. There are lots of other hair-touches that people love to do such as: stroking, brushing hair from a loved one's face, tucking it behind an it, pulling it, burying your hands in it as you kiss them, light skritching, etc. Running your fingers through someone's hair is only one thing you can do. And it's only possible if one has hair of a certain type and length. Someone could have beautiful 1a knee length hair and I doubt their loved one runs their fingers through it. They don't have enough arm!

I, for one, love for my mates to touch my hair. Everyone wants to touch my hair all the time. People stop me in the street because they want to bury their hands in it and marvel at the softness and the spring of my curls. I never see that happening to straighties on the street, only curlies.

Secondly, you were in elem school and your hair was unruly. Unruly hair tends to be looked at as dirty, because usually it is. Hair tends to get unruly from dirty activities. I'm sure there were girls with unruly straight hair who got flack until they brushed their hair or put it up.

lacefrost
July 23rd, 2012, 07:31 PM
snip
ETA:

On my search for the detail on evolutionary source, although it's not what I'm looking for, I found this and thought it might be interesting to share on curly hair :P

Part of what has kept natural curls under wraps, says Jonathan Torch, who has been styling curly hair in Toronto since the '80s, is the general perception of it. "You always see it as frizzy and damaged," he says. "It has the illusion of messy." In fact, Western civilization has a long history of derision toward hair that appears to have a mind of its own. According to Greek mythology, Medusa could turn to stone anyone who dared lay eyes on her head of writhing serpents. The nefarious, sensual power of curls is also evident in our retelling of the story of Adam and Eve. As Penny Howell Jolly, an art history professor at Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., observes in her essay "Dangerous Hair," while Biblical accounts don't discuss Eve's hair, "artists frequently depict her with sinuous curls, alluding to the notion that Eve seduced Adam into sin." (Mendleson, R. (2010). The lost art of curl maintenance. Maclean's, 123(11/12), 82-83.)

There's something wrong now if we've got to attribute curly hair as "bad" down to this level! :laugh:

I know I'm blowing up this thread now but I'd like to point out a couple of things about the paragraph that was quoted:

a) if from an evolutionary standpoint curly hair is less attractive, then the paragraph you selected, in which Eve has curly hair that is super sexy, disproves your point. Here it's saying that curly hair is highly attractive to the opposite sex

b) super straight hair is rare. Many people of Euro descent have hair in the 2s. Perhaps predominantly. Also during Renaissance (which is what most people think of in terms of religious art) most women wore their hair in braided or bunned updos. As we all know, take those styles down results in waves and curls. So it makes sense that artists depict women as having hair that is wavy and curly. That was the hair of the time. Long hair was basically in til the 1920s. So for as far back as you can go, most Euro-centric art depicts women with long wavy locks.

c) According to Greek mythology, Medusa was a gorgeous woman that all men favored. A jealous Goddess turned cursed her with snakes adorning her head, so that all men who looked upon her face turned to stone. There was nothing wrong with Medusa or her hair or her face. She was beautiful. She was just cursed.

d) Curly hair that is damaged will appear damaged. Most people damage their curly hair. So it's no wonder that damaged curly hair appears frizzy and damaged. Perfectly straight damaged hair appears stringy and damaged. Or strawlike and damaged. If your hair is healthy, people will look at it and say, "Wow your hair is beautiful!" and they will never think it is damaged or dirty or frizzy or strawlike or whatever. Which most members here can attest to. Healthy hair is beautiful hair.

robanna
July 23rd, 2012, 07:31 PM
I personally think curly hair is beautiful!

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 07:33 PM
I personally think curly hair is beautiful!

Thanks for that! :)

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 07:52 PM
Would you mind taking a minute to explain yourself because I am still seriously confused by the things you are saying, and other people have expressed some hurt and confusion too.

When you look at two people or two pictures and say that one is more attractive than the other, can you explain precisely why? Probably not, but it comes down to elements of composition. The sizes of features, textures, colors, lines, etc. Perhaps curly hair is simply too large, or the texture is too bold, or the lack of straightness and clean lines is too chaotic or doesn't blend with the rest of the picture. There are also the associations between hair style and personality (whether true or not). To me curly hair has a stereotype of stupid or obnoxious women for some reason (could it be positive social feedback due to their hair?). This is all just a vague generalization and yes curly hair can look good as good or better than straight hair, it just seems rarer.

Kyla
July 23rd, 2012, 07:56 PM
Yeah I used to straighten my hair heaps because of this too. If straightening wasn't the cause of my massive hair damage, I'd still be doing it now. Straight hair is definitely most attractive to the majority no matter what.

When any girl I knew ever said she wanted curls, she always implied it "temporarily". I ask my friend "Would you ask for curly hair if you could get it?". She simply said "it's pretty but I might not suit it". Strange for her to say, because her square face shape says curly hair is flattering to counteract straight angles? :/ She obviously wouldn't want to put up with it, I know - she's just too nice to say despite her saying my curls are "beautiful and should stay as it is". She knows straight hair is most attractive and I feel it in myself that it is too. It's part of our nature? Females, males.. they favour hair that they can run through their fingers like a waterfall. With curls, your fingers stop short and you pull and tug and the experience for either the person touching it, or the curly haired person is not as pleasant any more. You'll get the few people who'll like it, and not just because the grass is greener. But not often. Straighter hair has higher sexual value. Our internal biology says we want to be with the clean, tidy, healthy looking one so if their hair is slick straight one would have more confidence with their mating decisions (:P).

Holothuroidea, I kinda have to agree that that's what most people feel as shocking as that sounds - it's honesty from the psyche for many, and not everyone wants to admit that's their impression; just like my friend for that example. I've had girls in elementary call my curly hair ugly and gross and I've always been that germ and health conscious freak - no way was I dirty or unkempt, but the girls obviously saw my unruly hair texture and took it this way. Of course in adulthood we aren't in elementary anymore, but I can readily assume back in the minds of these now "grown up" people, their sentiments are the same.

HintofMint and Lacefrost said almost everything I was going to, but I just wanted to add that there is just not a lot of proof of this, and you are kind of stating it as fact. This theory also doesn't make too much sense to me, I've never heard that mates naturally want to run their hands through each others hair, and that people naturally view curlier hair as "dirty..." that doesn't make much sense, in my personal observations it's those with pin straight hair that, when unwashed, have dirtier looking heads (that is to say nothing against straight hair, just that grease seems to show up more). In addition, the way you stated this paints those that like curly hair as societal outliars or people who simply don't understand curls, and I don't think that's accurate, for lack of proof.

Also, history hasn't really shown us that people naturally view curly hair as dirty or ugly, in fact the example you gave (which I fully realize you stated as not exactly proving your previous point) just showed it as seductive. Bias against curly hair appears to be a cultural thing rather than biological, in my opinion.

I'm really sorry kids made fun of your hair, and that you may experience bias today as well. I didn't mean to single you out, I just wanted to state my opinion. And for what it's worth, based off your signature, I think your hair is absolutely beautiful.

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 07:57 PM
When you look at two people or two pictures and say that one is more attractive than the other, can you explain precisely why? Probably not, but it comes down to elements of composition. The sizes of features, textures, colors, lines, etc. Perhaps curly hair is simply too large, or the texture is too bold, or the lack of straightness and clean lines is too chaotic or doesn't blend with the rest of the picture. There are also the associations between hair style and personality (whether true or not). To me curly hair has a stereotype of stupid or obnoxious women for some reason (could it be positive social feedback due to their hair?). This is all just a vague generalization and yes curly hair can look good as good or better than straight hair, it just seems rarer.

:disbelief

Well you can rationalize prejudice all you want. It doesn't make it right.

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 08:02 PM
This is completely OT and probably kind of stupid but I'm getting annoyed with having my name in that post all the time because I really disagree with it and don't want to be associated with it.

Ugh, sorry, feeling kind of touchy right now. -_-

I'm going to go run my fingers through DH's curly hair to feel better. :D

ETA: Ariesfairies, I do not mean to be insensitive. I'm sorry that you were made to feel that way about your hair. I think you hair is absolutely beautiful and yes even sexy in it's natural state in your signature. Evo-psych really pushes my buttons, though. I don't need to look for rationalizations for other people's biases, I simply choose not to believe that which has been proven to be false.

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 08:09 PM
:disbelief:

Well you can rationalize prejudice all you want. It doesn't make it right.

Without abstractions and generalizations we wouldn't have brains, language, or much of anything. The whole world works on prejudice and generalizations. It's simply a matter of efficiency, nothing personal. Luckily for curly haired people it only takes a split second to assess someone's whole physical attractiveness. Imagine if it took an hour to tell if someone was beautiful or not and due to your curly hair, general stigmas against curly hair, and desire to be efficient, nobody ever bothered to look at you for more than 2 seconds. Then you would have something to complain about as some others who suffer from prejudice do. As it is I think the only thing you can complain about is to god or evolution: that human eyes don't generally find curly hair as attractive, and that you got curly hair (if you do).

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 08:16 PM
Without abstractions and generalizations we wouldn't have brains, language, or much of anything. The whole world works on prejudice and generalizations. It's simply a matter of efficiency, nothing personal.

Well that sounds like a super excellent reason to continue on with them even though they hurt people. Excellent logic there. I mean really. I can't even...

Ugh. :doh:


Luckily for curly haired people it only takes a split second to assess someone's whole physical attractiveness. Imagine if it took an hour to tell if someone was beautiful or not and due to your curly hair, general stigmas against curly hair, and desire to be efficient, nobody ever bothered to look at you for more than 2 seconds. Then you would have something to complain about as some others who suffer from prejudice do.

Alright let's see where curly hair falls on the prejudice scale of evil. Oh, not as bad as other kinds. Oh well then let's not even worry about it.

:doh:


As it is I think the only thing you can complain about is to god or evolution: that human eyes don't generally find curly hair as attractive, and that you got curly hair (if you do).

I don't have curly hair.

I guess my eyes must not have evolved right because I find curly hair very attractive. Is there some sort of evo-guru you can send me to who will tell me what is wrong with my eyes so that I can get them fixed?

Nobody is complaining about having curly hair. They're complaining about people who support and propagate prejudice. Like someone spreading the ridiculous idea that human eyes evolved to see curly hair as less attractive.

I am so done with this. I'm going to turn into a snark-tornado if I don't take one of these. :chillpill:

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 08:44 PM
I need 25 posts so.... It's not a ridiculous idea, it's just basically a fact. Since determining someone's physical beauty happens very quickly, prejudices are not even used in doing so ("I won't even look at her for a split second to find out, she has curly hair she must be ugly!"). Rather they are only used after the fact to communicate observations and principles efficiently with others. If you have beautiful hair and it's beautiful nobody will deny it or refuse to give you a fair trial. As for making people unhappy, that's just a fact of life. Everyone can't be happy at once and it must be worked for. Unhappiness is the default state for most people (again you can thank god or evolution) and if others want to be happy that's their own problem. Bringing about such happiness typically involves killing a lot of plants and animals to eat their tasty flesh, employing slaves/extremely-low-wage labor around the world to make you cheap products, and generally deluding yourself into a state of their own self-righteousness where you can even say things like "how dare you hurt other people", while you are positively hurting hundreds of unknown children and animals around the world day of your high-cost existence and lifestyle.

spirals
July 23rd, 2012, 08:47 PM
All I know is that no one ever tells me my hair looks bad because it's curly. I don't know who these people are who hate curly hair. And if they do, they're entitled to their opinions. Personally, I find straight hair beautiful. I also find wavy hair beautiful. And I've always found curls fascinating. Know what? If it's healthy, I'm a fan.

spirals
July 23rd, 2012, 08:51 PM
I personally think curly hair is beautiful!Me, too. And yours is just, wow straight hair. The texture shows off the color. Hey--let's trade for 1 day! :disco:

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 08:54 PM
Without abstractions and generalizations we wouldn't have brains, language, or much of anything. The whole world works on prejudice and generalizations. It's simply a matter of efficiency, nothing personal. Luckily for curly haired people it only takes a split second to assess someone's whole physical attractiveness. Imagine if it took an hour to tell if someone was beautiful or not and due to your curly hair, general stigmas against curly hair, and desire to be efficient, nobody ever bothered to look at you for more than 2 seconds. Then you would have something to complain about as some others who suffer from prejudice do. As it is I think the only thing you can complain about is to god or evolution: that human eyes don't generally find curly hair as attractive, and that you got curly hair (if you do).

I am seriously offended. Abstractions, generazations, I don't care if the world runs on them, or so you think, you don't have to go spouting it to people who will feel bad when they read it. I have curly hair. I was born with it. I can't change how it grows out of my head. And you are saying because of some generalization, I will never be as beautiful as someone with naturally straight hair? I'm sorry, that is wrong. I don't really care how the world works and i know it is not like that. I should not be told the human eye does not find me attractive because of some generalization, I may not LIKE my hair all the time but I will always love it because it is mine. People are not ugly or beautiful because of what texture of hair they have, so much more goes into physical beauty and it is so messed up to say straight hair is more pleasing to the eye. It isn't. I know this for a fact. From real people's opinions, not generalizations. Besdies, beauty is on the inside too.

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 08:57 PM
Okay so please tell me someone if I am crazy but it sound's like I am being criticized for being a hypocrite by trying not to hurt people because my existence is inherently hurtful (oooohhhh, man I should never try to be good again, I am thoroughly convinced) by someone who is spamming a thread about how hurtful and wrong prejudice against curlies is with "proof" of the "fact" that the prejudice is justified.

Sorry, I just want to get the story right.

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 08:59 PM
Okay so please tell me someone if I am crazy but it sound's like I am being criticized for being a hypocrite by trying not to hurt people because my existence is inherently hurtful (oooohhhh, man I should never try to be good again, I am thoroughly convinced) by someone who is spamming a thread about how hurtful and wrong prejudice against curlies is with "proof" of the "fact" that the prejudice is justified.

Sorry, I just want to get the story right.


Your not crazy! I think this person is spamming and its hurting my feelings alot.:(

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 09:02 PM
Your not crazy! I think this person is spamming and its hurting my feelings alot.:(

It's hurting my feelings too. Apparently that doesn't matter because other plants and animals have died so that we can live- which clearly makes our feelings or any good we try to do irrelevant in the world.

Anyway, :grouphug: this is a total bummer.

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 09:02 PM
And you are saying because of some generalization, I will never be as beautiful as someone with naturally straight hair?
I think you are quite pretty (especially if you straightened your hair), but your reading comprehension is questionable. ;)

Also sorry about the "spam", the server was timing out and I refreshed the page a few times then noticed it posted the same thing 3x. :shrug:

Kyla
July 23rd, 2012, 09:02 PM
I need 25 posts so.... It's not a ridiculous idea, it's just basically a fact. Since determining someone's physical beauty happens very quickly, prejudices are not even used in doing so ("I won't even look at her for a split second to find out, she has curly hair she must be ugly!"). Rather they are only used after the fact to communicate observations and principles efficiently with others. If you have curly hair and it's beautiful nobody will deny it or refuse to give you a fair trial. As for making people unhappy, that's just a fact of life. Everyone can't be happy all at once so it must be worked for. Unhappiness is the default state for most people (again you can thank god or evolution) and if others want to be happy, bringing it about is their own problem. And bringing about such happiness typically involves killing a lot of plants and animals to eat their tasty flesh, employing slaves/extremely-low-wage labor around the world to make you cheap products, and generally deluding yourself into a state of their own self-righteousness where you can even say things like "how dare you hurt other people", while you are positively hurting hundreds of unknown children and animals around the world day of your high-cost existence and lifestyle.

A couple things...

One, are you posting repeatedly on purpose to get 25 posts? That's not really how it works here, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just accidentally clicked "post" three times of something.

Two, the way you are wording things is fairly confusing. Are you saying prejudice against curly hair is perfectly justified because it's "naturally ugly," only in rare cases it is acceptable or "pretty," and to survive we have to harm others anyway so it doesn't matter if our prejudices hurt other people's feelings?

Once again, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, since that's a sucky thing to say.

Three, your explanations would be a little easier to understand if you used paragraph breaks, I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just all a little hard to read.

akilina
July 23rd, 2012, 09:05 PM
I find that when I want to look "hotter" the first thing I think of is to curl my hair :)
I know that is not the same as "ethnic curls" or even other hair types with natural curls. And yes yes I know you don't have to be ethnic to have SUPER curls. I don't care if I am being "offensive" because I do not see how my statement was offensive at all.

I personally, would not want ethnic curls on my own head, like afro like, or the texture or coarseness or anything. It is simply a personal preference, yet when I see some women with them it looks marvelous on them! :]
Most of the time it really suits their personality too. I didn't really see how curls would be looked at as unattractive, theyre great! At this point in time I am wishing I had some sort of curl if anything.

Kyla
July 23rd, 2012, 09:06 PM
I think you are quite pretty (especially if you straightened your hair), but your reading comprehension is questionable. ;)

Also sorry about the "spam", the server was timing out and I refreshed the page a few times then noticed it posted the same thing 3x. :shrug:

That was a very rude thing to say on multiple levels. Mentioning straightening Hollyfire's hair was completely unnecessary, and you could have worded the second part to be a lot less condescending.

holothuroidea
July 23rd, 2012, 09:12 PM
I don't even know what Hollyfire looks like, but I'm sure she's just as fabulous as she'll ever be without straitening her hair.

But I guess that's because my eyes didn't evolve right and don't perceive beauty the way they are "supposed" to.

:cheese:

akilina
July 23rd, 2012, 09:13 PM
That was a very rude thing to say on multiple levels. Mentioning straightening Hollyfire's hair was completely unnecessary, and you could have worded the second part to be a lot less condescending.
Not trying to butt in on this conversation I want nothing to do with haha...just ironic that on a forum all about our hairs HEALTH, someone would imply that they should fry their hair to make them look more "attractive" ??? ...:luke:

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 09:29 PM
I think you are quite pretty (especially if you straightened your hair), but your reading comprehension is questionable. ;)

Also sorry about the "spam", the server was timing out and I refreshed the page a few times then noticed it posted the same thing 3x. :shrug:

I think I'm quite pretty without straight hair, its naturally curly. My reading comprehension is fine, teacher.

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 09:31 PM
That was a very rude thing to say on multiple levels. Mentioning straightening Hollyfire's hair was completely unnecessary, and you could have worded the second part to be a lot less condescending.

I came back and saw the post you are commenting of and was completly suprised. I don't think I should straighten my hair to be beautiful, you are right Kyla, that was unnecessary. I also am not sure that I read the post (the one that my comprehension was commented on) incorrectly, I thought I understood the point.:shrug:

rena
July 23rd, 2012, 09:33 PM
Without abstractions and generalizations we wouldn't have brains, language, or much of anything. The whole world works on prejudice and generalizations. It's simply a matter of efficiency, nothing personal. Luckily for curly haired people it only takes a split second to assess someone's whole physical attractiveness. Imagine if it took an hour to tell if someone was beautiful or not and due to your curly hair, general stigmas against curly hair, and desire to be efficient, nobody ever bothered to look at you for more than 2 seconds. Then you would have something to complain about as some others who suffer from prejudice do. As it is I think the only thing you can complain about is to god or evolution: that human eyes don't generally find curly hair as attractive, and that you got curly hair (if you do).

Term, you seem like a very intelligent person who is fully capable of reasoning, but your misapplying this ability by allowing for the justification of prejudice and generalzations to enter into your equation.

It is not efficient to be prejudice and generalizing. If it were, than it would not have taken centuries of scientific development to reach the height of technology and advancement we find ourselves in now. If the great minds looked over the natural world and made generalizations of what they saw, or allowed the prejudices of that time (specially those pertaining to religious statutes) to influence them, we would still be in the dark ages, literally in the dark. If no one could understand that things are not always as they appear, which you cannot do when you're prejudice and generalize, we would never get anywhere.

Think of all the people who changed the world who would not have been able to do so if it were for generalization and prejudice. What if a child couldn't immediately read very well in school like his classmates? Okay, so we must generalize and stick this kid into the group of children who are mentally handicapped right? We should not take the time to further assist him in this ability and see what truley hinders this skill for him right? It would be more "efficient" to do this, rather than slow the other "smarter" children down for this "dud" right? Because of that, this child will grow up, all the while being subjected to the prejudice that unfortunately accompanies being what some would call "slow", being called all sorts of ungodly things, thinking he is less capable than he really is, and there goes the next Einstein or Jonas Salk (who both came from a Jewish background mind you, which carried a boatload of generalization and prejudice by itself). According to you, these men, simply because they were Jewish, were not able to achieve the great things they did, considering the prejudice and generalizations that follows Judaism.

You see what I'm trying to say? The world DID run on prejudice and generalizations because that's all we had to help us understand the world at the time, but notice that the more we as a race (the human race) develop, the further we leave these things behind as we become more knowledgeable?

SOME human eyes may find curly hair unattractive. Not all. If they did, there would have been no "big hair" era, curling tongs, hair rollers, perms, etc.

Take a peek into the albums of curlyheads around here and see all the compliments they recieve from other members, or their experiences being complimented by people they see when out and about. I suppose these people complimenting them are lying out of pity of their heart for those poor ugly curly people?

I see you are new here. I would hate to see a new member make enemies and become disliked so soon after joining, or at all really. Take time and apply that sharp mind of yours more broadly. You will see there are many types of beauty for many types of people, not one standard for all.

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 09:33 PM
That was a very rude thing to say on multiple levels. Mentioning straightening Hollyfire's hair was completely unnecessary, and you could have worded the second part to be a lot less condescending.
Yes... indeed it was a cruel thing to say. :) I was being completely facetious about the hair straightening, but I was totally honest about her being pretty.

But I just don't know how else I could reply after this...

I said:
"... curly hair can look good as good or better than straight hair, it just seems rarer."

To which she replied:
"And you are saying because of some generalization, I will never be as beautiful as someone with naturally straight hair?"

I said basically the complete opposite thing she complained about. If that doesn't warrant a little cruelty I don't know what does.

Not spamming for 25 posts (duplicate posts don't appear to be counted). And I had paragraphs before I hit the post button, this forum seems to be a bit unstable and must have lost them. :disgust:

MrsGuther
July 23rd, 2012, 09:37 PM
I think curls are gorgeous!

Cafe au Lait
July 23rd, 2012, 09:41 PM
Yes... indeed it was a cruel thing to say. :) I was being completely facetious about the hair straightening, but I was totally honest about her being pretty.

But I just don't know how else I could reply after this...

I said:
"... curly hair can look good as good or better than straight hair, it just seems rarer."

To which she replied:
"And you are saying because of some generalization, I will never be as beautiful as someone with naturally straight hair?"

I said basically the complete opposite thing she complained about. If that doesn't warrant a little cruelty I don't know what does.

Not spamming for 25 posts (duplicate posts don't appear to be counted). And I had paragraphs before I hit the post button, this forum seems to be a bit unstable and must have lost them. :disgust:



I don't think anything really WARRANTS cruelty.. :confused:

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 09:50 PM
Yes... indeed it was a cruel thing to say. :) I was being completely facetious about the hair straightening, but I was totally honest about her being pretty.

But I just don't know how else I could reply after this...

I said:
"... curly hair can look good as good or better than straight hair, it just seems rarer."

To which she replied:
"And you are saying because of some generalization, I will never be as beautiful as someone with naturally straight hair?"

I said basically the complete opposite thing she complained about. If that doesn't warrant a little cruelty I don't know what does.

Not spamming for 25 posts (duplicate posts don't appear to be counted). And I had paragraphs before I hit the post button, this forum seems to be a bit unstable and must have lost them. :disgust:

You said that based on generalizations, straight hair is seen as prettier than curly hair so for this reason, you added the part that curly hari CAN look as pretty as straight hair only after you said that straight hair is seen as pretty and curly hair is not. I was answering the way I did based on your perception of beauty, not on the fact that you tacked on the"curly hair can under certain circumstances look pretty, but straight hair is normally prettier" part. Either way, it doesn't warrent cruelness. I was not hurting you or trying to offend you, I was simply answering your post as I had read it. To me, after saying all you did about curls being not as beautiful, adding that they CAN be more beautiful at times does not change all the mean things you said about curls, it just means that they have to work harder at being near as beautiful as straight hair, once again proving your point that straight hair is naturally more beautiful. Nothing wrong with my comprehension of that, sorry.

Oh and thank you so very much for those who are on my side helping right now, it really makes me feel good.

Kyla
July 23rd, 2012, 09:55 PM
I don't think anything really WARRANTS cruelty.. :confused:

I agree.

Term122, While I understand the mild miscommunication between what you and Hollyfire3 said (sorry to speak in 2nd person for Hollyfire3, I don't know how else to write this), I don't believe it warranted rudeness when she did nothing but question what you had said, which, by the way, was not the complete opposite of her comment since saying that curly beauty is rarer. Rare is not the opposite of never.

ETA: I forgot to add that I agree with Hollyfire3's questioning of what you said, since what you said was, once again, definitely not the opposite of how it was taken.

I don't mean to nag, but you also never answered my second question in my first post addressed to you. I was hoping I completely mistook what you were saying, I guess that's not the case.

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 09:58 PM
I agree.

Term122, While I understand the mild miscommunication between what you and Hollyfire3 said (sorry to speak in 2nd person for Hollyfire3, I don't know how else to write this), I don't believe it warranted rudeness when she did nothing but question what you had said, which, by the way, was not the complete opposite of her comment since saying that curly beauty is rarer. Rare is not the opposite of never.

I don't mean to nag, but you also never answered my second question in my first post addressed to you. I was hoping I completely mistook what you were saying, I guess that's not the case.

Wait, did I mis speak? If I misinterperted her post, for this I am sorry. It just seemed that saying curly beauty is rarer means that it is not as beautiful as straight hair, or isn't normally, sorry for the extreme of never.

HintOfMint
July 23rd, 2012, 10:02 PM
Without abstractions and generalizations we wouldn't have brains, language, or much of anything. The whole world works on prejudice and generalizations. It's simply a matter of efficiency, nothing personal. Luckily for curly haired people it only takes a split second to assess someone's whole physical attractiveness. Imagine if it took an hour to tell if someone was beautiful or not and due to your curly hair, general stigmas against curly hair, and desire to be efficient, nobody ever bothered to look at you for more than 2 seconds. Then you would have something to complain about as some others who suffer from prejudice do. As it is I think the only thing you can complain about is to god or evolution: that human eyes don't generally find curly hair as attractive, and that you got curly hair (if you do).



Listen lassie, your opinion is just that: your opinion. Cultivated over millions of interactions with your environment. It's not hardwired and it's not universal or even the majority. That's how prejudice/opinions work. Until you cite some peer reviewed independent study with a large enough simple random sample of new born babies gazing longer at people with straight hair than with curly hair, you have absolutely nothing to stand on. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Just fashion and you thinking you speak and think for everybody. You have absolutely no authority to speak on what "the human eye" wants.

And I am far too polite to tell you what I think of your hair. But at least I can say it's just my opinion.

Kyla
July 23rd, 2012, 10:03 PM
Wait, did I mis speak? If I misinterperted her post, for this I am sorry. It just seemed that saying curly beauty is rarer means that it is not as beautiful as straight hair, or isn't normally, sorry for the extreme of never.

I should have clarified in my post, from a third party point of view it seemed (just in my opinion) that the interpretation you gave of what she said was a little incorrect, but I still found it understandable since it Term122 did say that curls were in most circumstances not as pretty.

That's just how I read it. I could be wrong of course.

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 10:07 PM
I should have clarified in my post, from a third party point of view it seemed (just in my opinion) that the interpretation you gave of what she said was a little incorrect, but I still found it understandable since it Term122 did say that curls were in most circumstances not as pretty.

That's just how I read it. I could be wrong of course.

I admit, I shouldn't have used the word never, I should have said soemtimes, I was just angry at what else was said in the post, you did not misread, I mis spoke, but I also don't think that what else was said in that post was very nice and I think you agree.

Blond On Blond
July 23rd, 2012, 10:08 PM
I am seriously offended. Abstractions, generazations, I don't care if the world runs on them, or so you think, you don't have to go spouting it to people who will feel bad when they read it. I have curly hair. I was born with it. I can't change how it grows out of my head. And you are saying because of some generalization, I will never be as beautiful as someone with naturally straight hair? I'm sorry, that is wrong. I don't really care how the world works and i know it is not like that. I should not be told the human eye does not find me attractive because of some generalization, I may not LIKE my hair all the time but I will always love it because it is mine. People are not ugly or beautiful because of what texture of hair they have, so much more goes into physical beauty and it is so messed up to say straight hair is more pleasing to the eye. It isn't. I know this for a fact. From real people's opinions, not generalizations. Besdies, beauty is on the inside too.

If you know all this, why are you offended? Keep being strong and ignore what others think/say. Including term122, who IMO is talking a bunch of nonsense.

Perhaps I live in a different dimension, as I never experienced any negativity associated with curly hair. And yes, my hair has a curl.

Ceisdein
July 23rd, 2012, 10:08 PM
Hold the phone.
If "human eyes don't generally find curly hair as attractive" how does that account for all the times in history that curly hair was the preferred hair type?
Were they blind or just not human?

Either way, blind or not human, it's messing with my image of ancient Greece and Sunset Strip in the 80's.

Kyla
July 23rd, 2012, 10:10 PM
I admit, I shouldn't have used the word never, I should have said soemtimes, I was just angry at what else was said in the post, you did not misread, I mis spoke, but I also don't think that what else was said in that post was very nice and I think you agree.

I do indeed agree. Very much so.


Listen lassie, your opinion is just that: your opinion. Cultivated over millions of interactions with your environment. It's not hardwired and it's not universal or even the majority. That's how prejudice/opinions work. Until you cite some peer reviewed independent study with a large enough simple random sample of new born babies gazing longer at people with straight hair than with curly hair, you have absolutely nothing to stand on. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Just fashion and you thinking you speak and think for everybody. You have absolutely no authority to speak on what "the human eye" wants.

And I am far too polite to tell you what I think of your hair. But at least I can say it's just my opinion.

:applause This is so true. I find the assumption that there must be some kind of biological hard wiring in our systems that make us prefer straighter hair ridiculous.

lacefrost
July 23rd, 2012, 10:12 PM
term122, you're new here. So you don't know how we do in LHC. That's okay. I'm gonna break it down for you. LHC is not like other communities. Here, we practice KNIT:


Flaxen said:

"I came for the hair care advice, but I stayed for the friends."

It has been said more than once that TLHC is one of the nicest sites on the 'net. That's because we have exceptional members who genuinely care about each other and terrific moderators who strive to make sure everyone has the best experience possible. The feeling created is very much like an extended family.

On occasion, however, a quarrel will occur, or a bit of snark will creep into people's messages, and this note is a gentle reminder that the best antidote for that is for everyone to monitor their own posts. Using the Report Button is a great help to the moderators by alerting us to problems, but prevention is a way that everyone can help maintain that warm community spirit. So, as we like to say, KNIT before you post.

Before you hit the "Submit" button, review what you're about to say.

Is it Kind?

Is it Necessary?

Is it Informative?

Is it True?

Read your words as if someone else were saying them to you. How would you receive them? Would you be offended, hurt or angry? If your post doesn't pass those tests, try again. If you simply can't compose something, let the thread go, and maybe try again later.

Every once in a while, there will be something that you cannot agree with. No one expects there to be a complete meeting of minds on every single topic discussed here. In those cases, we ask for tolerance - not acceptance, but tolerance. The other person is always worthy of respect. If you post, do not attack. Agree to disagree, and let your words be civil and even as kind as possible.

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 10:17 PM
If you know all this, why are you offended? Keep being strong and ignore what others think/say. Including term122, who IMO is talking a bunch of nonsense.

Perhaps I live in a different dimension, as I never experienced any negativity associated with curly hair. And yes, my hair has a curl.


I was offended upon reading the post, the last part was me trying to prove that the poster was not absolute in the points stated, that I had evidence otherwise, but I still was hurt that someone would say what the poster did. I will do my best to ignore the nonsense as you suggest, thank you.

Cafe au Lait
July 23rd, 2012, 10:22 PM
Lacefrost, thank you! It seems a lot of threads are getting snarky lately..

Blond On Blond
July 23rd, 2012, 10:23 PM
I was offended upon reading the post, the last part was me trying to prove that the poster was not absolute in the points stated, that I had evidence otherwise, but I still was hurt that someone would say what the poster did. I will do my best to ignore the nonsense as you suggest, thank you.


You can't please everyone. There will always be people who consider curly hair less attractive, as will be people who hate pin straight hair. There must be a balance in the world ;) I agree that the latest trends have been less favorable for curls. Who cares?

Let's play to the crowds that love curlies! :disco:

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 10:24 PM
You can't please everyone. There will always be people who consider curly hair less attractive, as will be people who hate pin straight hair. There must be a balance in the world ;) I agree that the latest trends have been less favorable for curls. Who cares?

Let's play to the crowds that love curlies! :disco:

yay! Curly love! I love it! Thanks for that! I'm smiling now! :D see? It just made me a bit mad that something I can't control or really change could make me less pretty..:(

lolot
July 23rd, 2012, 10:40 PM
i thinks i due to the effect of straighting wich is basically styling it, it leave shiny and in appearance "healty" hair, because im a little wavy and almost straight but i used to get more compliments when i straightened my hair because it looked more neat.
But not everybody thinks like that, is like make up, maybe you look sexier with it but there are guys who prefer a natural fresh face, same with hair, there are guys who love curls and other straight, etc.
The thing is to own what you have, and attitude is the best of all

HintOfMint
July 23rd, 2012, 10:44 PM
yay! Curly love! I love it! Thanks for that! I'm smiling now! :D see? It just made me a bit mad that something I can't control or really change could make me less pretty..:(

Aw, don't let the little turd get you down. People like that just want to offend as many people as possible, all in the guise of "being honest.":rolleyes:

Tisiloves
July 23rd, 2012, 10:49 PM
yay! Curly love! I love it! Thanks for that! I'm smiling now! :D see? It just made me a bit mad that something I can't control or really change could make me less pretty..:(

Yay! :cheer::disco:

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 10:49 PM
Aw, don't let the little turd get you down. People like that just want to offend as many people as possible, all in the guise of "being honest.":rolleyes:

"Turd" Love that word! hey that ryhmed and its far too late to think straight for me. I really think it was one of those people wanting to offend as many as possible, and the "being honest" approach didn't fool me not to worry:rolleyes: I'm just trying to ignore it now, thanks for the advice HintOfMint.

akilina
July 23rd, 2012, 10:49 PM
Lacefrost, thank you! It seems a lot of threads are getting snarky lately..
I know, but luckily there is still a sense of community in different places on this website. More and more I have been on the "Off topic" board most of my time.I try to just exit the page if things get hairy.

Again, not flaming here but it seems that there a lot of spammers and trolls all the sudden.I've never seen so many people on here who have their name in Red and crossed out until lately. I guess though as more and more people know about a website, the more this tends to happen.

Kind of like the website Gaia. I was on it when I was 14...7 years ago..and now it is just packed full of spammers and trolls who are pretty rude and post nothing worth while. Haven't been to that site in about 4 years and I imagine that it is horrible by now. Sorry for going off topic there :D

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 10:59 PM
It is not efficient to be prejudice and generalizing. If it were, than it would not have taken centuries of scientific development to reach the height of technology and advancement we find ourselves in now. If the great minds looked over the natural world and made generalizations of what they saw, or allowed the prejudices of that time (specially those pertaining to religious statutes) to influence them, we would still be in the dark ages, literally in the dark.
Science is basically the process of making generalizations more granular, reducing the margin of error and therefore increasing our efficiency. That's a lot different than a moral argument against prejudice, and it's also very important to note that science never gets rid of generalizations, it simply makes them smaller.

At the same time, it grows the amount of variables and "information" exponentially, far beyond what the human brain can hope to process. Therefore on the individual level the prejudices required remain largely unchanged. A few scientific ideas will help streamline our lives in certain areas, and the same prejudices abound. For prehistoric man perhaps the prejudice was to avoid wolves or the enemy's women or something. For modern man in his modern setting the prejudice is to avoid black men at night or in secluded places. I'm sure that's one prejudice nobody here would be offended by. ;)


What if a child couldn't immediately read very well in school like his classmates? Okay, so we must stick this kid into the group of children who are mentally handicapped right?
Mentally retarded children who have a care worker never escape their retardation, they are just happy babies their whole lives. The reason for the care worker is because people don't like to see handicapped people suffer, not because the care worker is actually helping their problems. While relates to the next part....


Think of all the people who changed the world who would not have been able to do so if it were for generalization and prejudice.
...
According to you, these men, simply because they were Jewish, were not able to achieve the great things they did, considering the prejudice and generalizations that follows Judaism.
You're very mistaken here. Most people who have significantly changed the world grew up under adverse conditions. They had nobody there to alleviate their suffering, hold their hand, or shower them with pity, and therefore they were forced to either try to adapt and innovate, or to suffer and die. Some succeeded, many others failed and were forgotten, they were simply a necessary risk required to produce the few successes. Nobody changes the world or become geniuses just because they want to and especially not because people were nice or fair to them. People who are babied and do not suffer generally grow up very "normal" and follow a normal life history, completely ignorant to the tribulations of those who suffer and are occasionally called geniuses in the end, often only years after they died.

And usually one of the first things to note about these earth-changing men is that women reject them, and that is often one of their primary motivating forces to accomplish something "higher" in their lives.



You see what I'm trying to say? The world DID run on prejudice and generalizations because that's all we had to help us understand the world at the time, but notice that the more we as a race (the human race) develop, the further we leave these things behind as we become more knowledgeable?
I think we like to pretend for the sake of some politically correct morons that we are leaving prejudice behind but it's just a facade. Forcing companies to hire the same amount of asians and women as white males does nothing to remove prejudice, it just shifts the prejudice in a different direction which makes the vocal minorities who influenced the policies in the first place happy. We never move away from prejudice as the human brain is limited, we just shift prejudices into different forms. Perhaps now more than ever, with the infinite abundance of information at our disposal, we have to pick and choose what to "know" and how to apply our selective knowledge most efficiently in the competitive world.

And I'll reiterate that the beauty and fun of life is actually that we don't know much, that we are constantly making guesses based on our prejudices and what we think we do know, that life is a gamble and a game, not something you plug into a scientific calculator and read the answer off the screen. That is why science will never solve any of the core human problems, and will never replace prejudice either.


Term, you seem like a very intelligent person who is fully capable of reasoning...
Thank you. :)

I would hate to see a new member make enemies and become disliked so soon after joining, or at all really.
That's nice of you, but I am already well accustomed to the hatred and rejection of women (and many men). Perhaps some day I will find enough motivation to change the world too. :beerchug:

Bene
July 23rd, 2012, 11:04 PM
Term122, I don't hate you :) If anything, you are spot on about a lot of stuff.


Logic and reason FTW!!!!!!

Hollyfire3
July 23rd, 2012, 11:06 PM
Yay! :cheer::disco:

Aww, thanks for the cheers!

carolinaberry
July 23rd, 2012, 11:11 PM
I think sometimes when we are insecure about something, we interpret everything as criticism of that thing. Maybe it is just that you and I happen to watch different types of things, but I don't see (in the media) any strictly negative messages about curly hair. Maybe that is because I LOVE curly hair, so if I see curly hair on tv or anywhere else I think it looks awesome. I see naturally curly (of all curl types) on tv all the time, and not in a "before" context.

I think most people look better with their natural hair texture. I love curly hair, and even when I had an excellent perm that looked like natural curls-they didn't flatter me.

I think the *real* message from the media is that NO ONE should be satisfied with themselves the way they are. They want to brainwash us all into thinking that we aren't good enough and need to spend money in order to be good enough. The media pushes that if you are satisfied with yourself, you shouldn't be.

I know we each deal with our own insecurities, so telling you this may mean nothing, but you have nothing to be insecure about with your curls. They are gorgeous.

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 11:27 PM
Listen lassie, your opinion is just that: your opinion. Cultivated over millions of interactions with your environment. It's not hardwired and it's not universal or even the majority. That's how prejudice/opinions work. Until you cite some peer reviewed independent study with a large enough simple random sample of new born babies gazing longer at people with straight hair than with curly hair, you have absolutely nothing to stand on.
Judging by how defensive people are getting in this thread, it sounds to me like you agree with me and perhaps you're angry about it. But you don't need to be angry at me, I just posted my personal opinion/observations as the thread asked. I'm not a psychology researcher so I can't help with a scientific study. :)

carolinaberry
July 23rd, 2012, 11:29 PM
d) Curly hair that is damaged will appear damaged. Most people damage their curly hair. So it's no wonder that damaged curly hair appears frizzy and damaged. Perfectly straight damaged hair appears stringy and damaged. Or strawlike and damaged. If your hair is healthy, people will look at it and say, "Wow your hair is beautiful!" and they will never think it is damaged or dirty or frizzy or strawlike or whatever. Which most members here can attest to. Healthy hair is beautiful hair.


Great point, and I think that is what many people are missing. Damaged hair looks bad-no matter what the hair type. Think of the straight or wavy-haired girls with lots of tangles and split ends or blowfry damage-that isn't attractive. So, if there were any polls done about preference for straight vs. curly hair, maybe the respondents were thinking of the damaged curly hair they've seen. I think this is the same reason long hair gets a bad rap. There are a lot of people with very damaged long hair-which looks unkempt.

I have straightish wavy hair. I personally think healthy curls are the most beautiful hair type. However, I think all healthy looking hair is gorgeous.

Mingle
July 23rd, 2012, 11:31 PM
I think people might say curly hair is "bad" when they actually mean frizz. Its no surprise since frizz pretty much comes hand in hand with curly hair. But anyway, I think curly hair is beautiful! And if curly hair really was ugly, I don't think so many people would own curling irons or perm their hair. Clearly, curly is cute.

carolinaberry
July 23rd, 2012, 11:34 PM
Secondly, you were in elem school and your hair was unruly. Unruly hair tends to be looked at as dirty, because usually it is. Hair tends to get unruly from dirty activities. I'm sure there were girls with unruly straight hair who got flack until they brushed their hair or put it up.

Another good point. I actually think straight or wavy hair shows unruliness more, because curly hair (from my observation only) seems to hold its shape better and stand up to more.

Think, for instance, of Game of Thrones. The civilized women (of all the cultures) all have carefully styled hair, from Westeros to Essos. The styles vary between cultures, but the point is that there was some care put into it. However, the uncivilized Wildling women, are depicted with dirty, tangly hair to show how uncivilized and dirty they are (I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have braided their hair as well, but that's just me).

Kyla
July 23rd, 2012, 11:43 PM
Judging by how defensive people are getting in this thread, it sounds to me like you agree with me and perhaps you're angry about it. But you don't need to be angry at me, I just posted my personal opinion/observations as the thread asked. I'm not a psychology researcher so I can't help with a scientific study. :)

Just because someone acted angrily towards you does not mean they secretly agree with you and are in denial, that's ridiculous. That may be true in some situations, but it's obvious that HintofMint is just explaining something to you that you don't seem to understand, that your statements are based off nothing but observations and therefor hold very little merit.

And honestly? You can't even google for a peer reviewed study to support your statements? Or even an article citing a study? Or even an article period? You've provided nothing but speculations.

Or, perhaps you are unable to give us proof because there isn't any.

carolinaberry
July 23rd, 2012, 11:43 PM
Curly hair is unkempt and messy and wild.
Blondes are dumb.
Red heads are sexy firey and crazy.
Grey hair is horrible and needs to be hidden.
Girls with black hair and pale skin are witches and goths.
Dirty blonde is dishwater blonde.
Light ash brown is mousey.
Flat hair is lifeless.
Afros are political.
Type 4 hair is bad hair or "nappy".
Cornrows are for thugs and gangsters.
Dreads are filthy.
Very long hair is disgusting and/or for strippers.
Very short hair is mannish.

Did I cover them all? Basically it has to be conventionally attractive hair (not a man-hating feminist!!) but not overtly sexy (omg slut!) commonly found in western europe. Handily, this oppresses both women and minorities, and also supports the hair product industry. Hurrayyyy!


I think you miss the real message of the media, which is no matter what you naturally are, you need to spend money to change. Girls with straight or wavy (as you think I guess Western European) are sent the message that their hair is limp, lifeless and boring and need to buy curling irons or rollers.

The messages about what is appropriate are conflicting and every woman is being told that whatever her hair type from pin-straight to kinky, they need to change it.

shazzshazshz
July 23rd, 2012, 11:47 PM
I have straight/wavy hair, and I think curly hair is goooorgeous! Especially well-groomed, shiny, bouncy curls! They are so very feminine. If modern society doesn't think curls are sexy, then work it girl! You can help change that view! And I think it's best to focus on attracting a guy who is attracted to you for who you are.... curls and all :)

EDIT: p.s. even though my hair is straight/wavy, even I straightened my hair for around 6 years of my life... thinking that my natural waves weren't as nice as dead straight, artificially-straightened hair. Thank God I realised that my natural hair is SO MUCH BETTER than fried hair. But just letting you know that you're not alone in thinking you need to artificially straighten your hair to feel "more attractive"... whatever that means. IMO, keep healthy and keep smiling :)

term122
July 23rd, 2012, 11:53 PM
Just because someone acted angrily towards you does not mean they secretly agree with you and are in denial, that's ridiculous. That may be true in some situations, but it's obvious that HintofMint is just explaining something to you that you don't seem to understand, that your statements are based off nothing but observations and therefor hold very little merit.

And honestly? You can't even google for a peer reviewed study to support your statements? Or even an article citing a study? Or even an article period? You've provided nothing but speculations.

Or, perhaps you are unable to give us proof because there isn't any.
If you can find a study you'll have put my googling skills to shame (and also proved a point for me, is it worth it? ;)). Sadly once you graduate from school they revoke your access to all those "scholarly" databases.

Not sure why you think my personal observations hold no merit, particularly when plenty of others in this thread have echoed similar thoughts. Do you think the same of your own? Isn't the whole point of this thread and threads like it to collate the personal opinions of all members, and can't that be just as valuable if not more so than a dubious study?

Kyla
July 24th, 2012, 12:12 AM
If you can find a study you'll have put my googling skills to shame (and also proved a point for me, is it worth it? ;)). Sadly once you graduate from school they revoke your access to all those "scholarly" databases.

Not sure why you think my personal observations hold no merit, particularly when plenty of others in this thread have echoed similar thoughts. Do you think the same of your own? Isn't the whole point of this thread and threads like it to collate the personal opinions of all members, and can't that be just as valuable if not more so than a dubious study?

I was honestly talking about google, not scholarly websites. I know full well that membership to such sites are not available to everyone. I am also unable to find a study, either I'm not doing something correct, or, as I said scientific data behind natural biological prejudice of hair does not exist.

I don't think your observations hold no merit, although I did say they had little. I see your point and I admit I did not portray what I meant well enough. What I meant was that your speculations do not have any proof behind them, you have not even given situations which you have personally observed. Many members here will give reasoning behind their explanations, if not from known fact or studies, from their own experiences. This makes their contributions a lot more understandable. I do think these experiences they share are very valuable in a discussion, perhaps just as important as a study as you said. Once again though, you have just given us only your thoughts with nothing backing them, and that is what I meant when I said they had little merit. Perhaps you could provide some explanations and experiences, if you are unable to provide anything scientific.

I should state also that I do not mean to completely dismiss all that you have said because you didn't back it up enough, or because you have insulted others. Perhaps you do make some reasonable points, although I am far too tired to review them thoroughly to search for something I remotely agree with.

Bene
July 24th, 2012, 12:30 AM
I was honestly talking about google, not scholarly websites. I know full well that membership to such sites are not available to everyone. I am also unable to find a study, either I'm not doing something correct, or, as I said scientific data behind natural biological prejudice of hair does not exist.

I don't think your observations hold no merit, although I did say they had little. I see your point and I admit I did not portray what I meant well enough. What I meant was that your speculations do not have any proof behind them, you have not even given situations which you have personally observed. Many members here will give reasoning behind their explanations, if not from known fact or studies, from their own experiences. This makes their contributions a lot more understandable. I do think these experiences they share are very valuable in a discussion, perhaps just as important as a study as you said. Once again though, you have just given us only your thoughts with nothing backing them, and that is what I meant when I said they had little merit. Perhaps you could provide some explanations and experiences, if you are unable to provide anything scientific.

I should state also that I do not mean to completely dismiss all that you have said because you didn't back it up enough, or because you have insulted others. Perhaps you do make some reasonable points, although I am far too tired to review them thoroughly to search for something I remotely agree with.


What term has said aren't merely speculations. It's an opinion that I hold as well. And I've been saying similar stuff all up and down this site for years :laugh:


I can say why I find straight hair more attractive than curly hair. It's not boring at all, as opposed to what the gung-ho curly lovers have been touting for 20 pages or so.

It's about the sleekness, it appeals to my sense of aesthetics. It has order in a way that I find pleasant to look at. Very similar to why I dislike modern jazz or abstract splotchy art. It lacks order. Show me an apple that looks like an apple, not your interpretation of an apple that looks like a can of purple paint vomited violently all over a canvas. Play music that I can hum along to because I can predict where the next bar is going. One person's versatility can be another person's unsightly disorder.


Also, it's smooth and reflects light better because of that smoothness. It appeals to my "Oooooh, shiny!" magpie-like tendencies :laugh:


Because of these reasons I am less likely to compliment curly hair than straight hair. It's got to be one magnificent head of curly hair before I say anything nice about it, since I'm not one to give false compliments to things I don't feel deserve my praise.

And NO, I'm not saying that curly hair is unsightly, I'm just explaining why I find straight hair more attractive.

Kyla
July 24th, 2012, 12:42 AM
What term has said aren't merely speculations. It's an opinion that I hold as well. And I've been saying similar stuff all up and down this site for years :laugh:


I can say why I find straight hair more attractive than curly hair. It's not boring at all, as opposed to what the gung-ho curly lovers have been touting for 20 pages or so.

It's about the sleekness, it appeals to my sense of aesthetics. It has order in a way that I find pleasant to look at. Very similar to why I dislike modern jazz or abstract splotchy art. It lacks order. Show me an apple that looks like an apple, not your interpretation of an apple that looks like a can of purple paint vomited violently all over a canvas. Play music that I can hum along to because I can predict where the next bar is going. One person's versatility can be another person's unsightly disorder.


Also, it's smooth and reflects light better because of that smoothness. It appeals to my "Oooooh, shiny!" magpie-like tendencies :laugh:


Because of these reasons I am less likely to compliment curly hair than straight hair. It's got to be one magnificent head of curly hair before I say anything nice about it, since I'm not one to give false compliments to things I don't feel deserve my praise.

And NO, I'm not saying that curly hair is unsightly, I'm just explaining why I find straight hair more attractive.

And I don't see anything wrong with your opinion. I don't see anything wrong with people preferring straight hair to curly, or vice versa. What I do have a problem with was saying that their are natural biological reasons behind blatant prejudice, and that added with the fact that we kill to survive means that it's ok to voice prejudice and hurt others. To me, it sounds like the type of reasoning a racist or homophobic person would use to dissipate any guilt about their hate and further encourage it. I think I probably should have made it more clear what exactly I took issue with.

carolinaberry
July 24th, 2012, 12:42 AM
I also want to say that I think straight hair is less forgiving with imperfections. When it hasn't been washed, it shows quickly. Tangles are also very visible, where-as curls can hide some tangles. I also think splits are more visible on straight hair.

Someone with a healthy head of straight hair-it is usually gorgeous. I just think straight hair has to be in more perfect condition in order to look its best.

Bene
July 24th, 2012, 12:50 AM
And I don't see anything wrong with your opinion. I don't see anything wrong with people preferring straight hair to curly, or vice versa. What I do have a problem with was saying that their are natural biological reasons behind blatant prejudice, and that added with the fact that we kill to survive means that it's ok to voice prejudice and hurt others. To me, it sounds like the type of reasoning a racist or homophobic person would use to dissipate any guilt about their hate and further encourage it. I think I probably should have made it more clear what exactly I took issue with.



About that. There is a very biological reason for prejudice. Humans are social animals. From that stems a need to maintain peace with those within a community, as well as to want what's best for the group an individual has deemed as one's own. We needed to develop this way of looking at the community for the sake of survival. Otherwise, we would have been hunted into extinction by animals with bigger teeth and better claws.

Taking that in mind, the inherent need for survival that can only be achieved by a strict loyalty to one's own group, there needs to be a justification for taking resources from another group. Particularly in a time or place where there's a general paucity of goods. Thus the prejudice. Elevate one's own community, find fault with the other. It's survival. The group survives, so the individual survives.

Now, as a species, we have moved on from that particular imperative in order to survive, for the most part. However, the inherent tendency is still there. And most of humanity is able to rise above it, but it doesn't mean it's not there. Look at how we fight wars. We send off our troops and the ones left behind demonize the enemy. Dehumanize the enemy or the morale of your people drops.

Doesn't make it right, but it does explain how prejudices come about. I suppose when spelled out with objectivity can be off-putting to some, but it doesn't make it any less important.

term122
July 24th, 2012, 12:54 AM
It's about the sleekness, it appeals to my sense of aesthetics. It has order in a way that I find pleasant to look at. Very similar to why I dislike modern jazz or abstract splotchy art. It lacks order. Show me an apple that looks like an apple, not your interpretation of an apple that looks like a can of purple paint vomited violently all over a canvas. Play music that I can hum along to because I can predict where the next bar is going. One person's versatility can be another person's unsightly disorder.
Strongly agreed. I can't stand too much jazz either.


I also want to say that I think straight hair is less forgiving with imperfections. When it hasn't been washed, it shows quickly. Tangles are also very visible, where-as curls can hide some tangles. I also think splits are more visible on straight hair.

Someone with a healthy head of straight hair-it is usually gorgeous. I just think straight hair has to be in more perfect condition in order to look its best.
I was going to add roughly the same thing but you've just said it even better. +1


... added with the fact that we kill to survive means that it's ok to voice prejudice and hurt others. To me, it sounds like the type of reasoning a racist or homophobic person would use to dissipate any guilt about their hate and further encourage it.
The point was simply to point out the mass hypocrisy of people who complain about "hurting" others. If anyone said instead: "you shouldn't hurt others on this forum because we are a community of equals, we like hurting chinese, african, short-haired, and non-community members, but we have a higher level of respect for ourselves," I'd almost have agreed wholeheartedly with the notion. (I still think a little bit of hurting even amongst equals and loved ones is beneficial (ie. seduction), and the ideas of never harming others are too inflexible applied to such a large group.)

Kyla
July 24th, 2012, 01:07 AM
About that. There is a very biological reason for prejudice. Humans are social animals. From that stems a need to maintain peace with those within a community, as well as to want what's best for the group an individual has deemed as one's own. We needed to develop this way of looking at the community for the sake of survival. Otherwise, we would have been hunted into extinction by animals with bigger teeth and better claws.

Taking that in mind, the inherent need for survival that can only be achieved by a strict loyalty to one's own group, there needs to be a justification for taking resources from another group. Particularly in a time or place where there's a general paucity of goods. Thus the prejudice. Elevate one's own community, find fault with the other. It's survival. The group survives, so the individual survives.

Now, as a species, we have moved on from that particular imperative in order to survive, for the most part. However, the inherent tendency is still there. And most of humanity is able to rise above it, but it doesn't mean it's not there. Look at how we fight wars. We send off our troops and the ones left behind demonize the enemy. Dehumanize the enemy or the morale of your people drops.

Doesn't make it right, but it does explain how prejudices come about. I suppose when spelled out with objectivity can be off-putting to some, but it doesn't make it any less important.

I think that is interesting and was explained very well, and I can understand what you are saying. And I do agree that a tendancy for prejudice is ever present. I admit I made a mistake in assuming there was nothing biological behind this, thank you for explaining this. :)

Like you just said, that doesn't make it right and I certainly don't think it is, which leads me to why I and others took offense to term122's orginal few posts, they were hurtful comments that then provided rationalization that seemed ridiculous.

tern122, I understand what you mean about hypocrisy when it comes to hurting other people. And of course there are many posts on this forum that are offensive and hurt the groups you mentioned, and most of use commit actions that indirectly do so. I'm sure I do unknowingly on a nearly daily basis by going about my daily life. However, I strongly disagree with the notion that this hypocrisy among people makes it alright still to purposefully do hurtful things. Also, in your original post about the topic you also used plants and animals as your main examples, which seemed to imply that it is alright for all to hurt each other, since humans are inherently evil since we survive by killing.

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 01:12 AM
Also, it's smooth and reflects light better because of that smoothness. It appeals to my "Oooooh, shiny!" magpie-like tendencies :laugh:


That is entirely subjective on the head of hair. To be honest, I think it has more to do with the fineness of the hair, and the health. If the hair is healthy and the cuticles mostly laid down, it is more likely to be healthy. My hair is very shiny. When I take close-up pictures, you can see light reflecting off every strand. That is because it's healthy, and my hair is F/M.

Conversely, I see many, many, many heads of straight hair that are not shiny. That may be because their hair is damaged. Or because they have coarse hair. Or whatever the reason may be.

My hair is very smooth. It just curves around into curls.

Like I said, you're entitiled to your preferences and opinion, but you can't generalise.

salamander
July 24th, 2012, 01:18 AM
Doesn't make it right, but it does explain how prejudices come about.

It's interesting to develop theories of why prejudice happens, but that doesn't change that it's hurtful and damaging to the society we've got now. Yes, it's part of us, yes, it's probably inevitable, and that means that we need to constantly watch for prejudice within ourselves and control it so that we don't hurt other people.

Bene
July 24th, 2012, 01:22 AM
That is entirely subjective on the head of hair. To be honest, I think it has more to do with the fineness of the hair, and the health. If the hair is healthy and the cuticles mostly laid down, it is more likely to be healthy. My hair is very shiny. When I take close-up pictures, you can see light reflecting off every strand. That is because it's healthy, and my hair is F/M.

Conversely, I see many, many, many heads of straight hair that are not shiny. That may be because their hair is damaged. Or because they have coarse hair. Or whatever the reason may be.

My hair is very smooth. It just curves around into curls.

Like I said, you're entitiled to your preferences and opinion, but you can't generalise.


I'm not generalizing. Smooth surfaces do, in fact, reflect light better.

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 01:31 AM
What makes you think it's okay to say something like that, whether or not you're trying to be funny?

I could very well easily turn around and say "your hair would look nice if you got rid of the greasy stringy look".

But that wouldn't be very nice, would it?


I think you are quite pretty (especially if you straightened your hair), but your reading comprehension is questionable. ;)


Am I the only one who has NO FLIPPING IDEA what you're on about?

What are you on about? Could you explain it in simple terms for a simple curly headed person?


When you look at two people or two pictures and say that one is more attractive than the other, can you explain precisely why? Probably not, but it comes down to elements of composition. The sizes of features, textures, colors, lines, etc. Perhaps curly hair is simply too large, or the texture is too bold, or the lack of straightness and clean lines is too chaotic or doesn't blend with the rest of the picture. There are also the associations between hair style and personality (whether true or not). To me curly hair has a stereotype of stupid or obnoxious women for some reason (could it be positive social feedback due to their hair?). This is all just a vague generalization and yes curly hair can look good as good or better than straight hair, it just seems rarer.

It seems to me like you're waffling on about a whole lot of nothing. Just typing words for the sake of it.

I can see, however, that you're using intellect and words to cover up thinly veiled insults. You can't get that past me.


Without abstractions and generalizations we wouldn't have brains, language, or much of anything. The whole world works on prejudice and generalizations. It's simply a matter of efficiency, nothing personal. Luckily for curly haired people it only takes a split second to assess someone's whole physical attractiveness. Imagine if it took an hour to tell if someone was beautiful or not and due to your curly hair, general stigmas against curly hair, and desire to be efficient, nobody ever bothered to look at you for more than 2 seconds. Then you would have something to complain about as some others who suffer from prejudice do. As it is I think the only thing you can complain about is to god or evolution: that human eyes don't generally find curly hair as attractive, and that you got curly hair (if you do).

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 01:34 AM
I'm not generalizing. Smooth surfaces do, in fact, reflect light better.

And straight hair is the only type of hair with a smooth surface? :shrug:

My hair is a smooth surface. Just one that happens to curve around. A shiny metal pipe is still a smooth surface, whether or not it is curved.

You are generalising. You're saying that straight hair reflects light better because it is smooth, therefore implying that;

A) Straightness of hair = shininess. Which, it doesn't. Hair TYPE and health, genetics etc = shininess.

B) Straight hair is shiny, curly hair is not.

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Listen lassie, your opinion is just that: your opinion. Cultivated over millions of interactions with your environment. It's not hardwired and it's not universal or even the majority. That's how prejudice/opinions work. Until you cite some peer reviewed independent study with a large enough simple random sample of new born babies gazing longer at people with straight hair than with curly hair, you have absolutely nothing to stand on. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Just fashion and you thinking you speak and think for everybody. You have absolutely no authority to speak on what "the human eye" wants.

And I am far too polite to tell you what I think of your hair. But at least I can say it's just my opinion.

I love you <3

term122
July 24th, 2012, 01:35 AM
tern122, I understand what you mean about hypocrisy when it comes to hurting other people. And of course there are many posts on this forum that are offensive and hurt the groups you mentioned, and most of use commit actions that indirectly do so. I'm sure I do unknowingly on a nearly daily basis by going about my daily life. However, I strongly disagree with the notion that this hypocrisy among people makes it alright still to purposefully do hurtful things. Also, in your original post about the topic you also used plants and animals as your main examples, which seemed to imply that it is alright for all to hurt each other, since humans are inherently evil since we survive by killing.
Well the point is that hurting people is actually good, both for ourselves and for them, for everyone basically. It's the cycle of life. And we are all hurting others and other organisms all the time and it is good, very good. I just want people to realize and accept the fact rather than pretend otherwise, pretend that life can exist in some peaceful world where nobody ever gets hurt. Hurting is the reason for all intelligence, all society, all motivations and accomplishments, practically everything in the world. Evolution works because organisms hurt each other. Relationships work because people hurt each other and ally together to hurt others. All human development is a result of suffering and hurting, hence the phrase "harsh love" or "motherly love". Children with zero discipline would not develop at all. To see people slander something so integral to life is saddening. Particularly so when we're on the internet, where "hurting" people is via typing text to them, which must be the least offensive medium to hurt someone imaginable.

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 01:37 AM
Well the point is that hurting people is actually good, both for ourselves and for them, for everyone basically. It's the cycle of life. And we are all hurting others and other organisms all the time and it is good, very good. I just want people to realize and accept the fact rather than pretend otherwise, pretend that life can exist in some peaceful world where nobody ever gets hurt. Hurting is the reason for all intelligence, all society, all motivations and accomplishments, practically everything in the world. Evolution works because organisms hurt each other. Relationships work because people hurt each other and ally together to hurt others. All human development is a result of suffering and hurting, hence the phrase "harsh love" or "motherly love". Children with zero discipline would not develop at all. To see people slander something so integral to life is saddening. Particularly so when we're on the internet, where "hurting" people is via typing text to them, which must be the least offensive medium to hurt someone imaginable.

Hurting children =/= discipline :/

Some of us know how to discipline children, which should be TEACHING, not PUNISHING, without hurting them.

And wow. Just wow, wow, wow.

ETA: Hurting people is good?

No wonder this world is messed up.

Bene
July 24th, 2012, 01:39 AM
What makes you think it's okay to say something like that, whether or not you're trying to be funny?

I could very well easily turn around and say "your hair would look nice if you got rid of the greasy stringy look".

But that wouldn't be very nice, would it?



Am I the only one who has NO FLIPPING IDEA what you're on about?

What are you on about? Could you explain it in simple terms for a simple curly headed person?



It seems to me like you're waffling on about a whole lot of nothing. Just typing words for the sake of it.

I can see, however, that you're using intellect and words to cover up thinly veiled insults. You can't get that past me.

^^^

I didn't read thinly veiled insults in any of that :shrug: I mean, I could say that when people insist that curly hair is so versatile and interesting, they're really saying that straight hair is boring. Should the straighties then pop up and talk about the insinuated insults about their hair?


One person has a preference, and if this is how they explain the world, why dwell on the perceived insult that may very well not be in there?


If I reacted like some of the people in this very thread, I could say "Well, it looks like the curlies have picked out one dissenter and are getting out the pitchforks!" Just let it slide.


And, the dissenter isn't going to learn about anyone's touchy spots (and how to avoid those pitfalls) if everyone on their mother insists on misinterpreting some innocuous musing.




And straight hair is the only type of hair with a smooth surface?

My hair is a smooth surface. Just one that happens to curve around. A shiny metal pipe is still a smooth surface, whether or not it is curved.

You are generalising. You're saying that straight hair reflects light better because it is smooth, therefore implying that;

A) Straightness of hair = shininess. Which, it doesn't. Hair TYPE and health, genetics etc = shininess.

B) Straight hair is shiny, curly hair is not.


Since you've chosen to take what I've said out of context, I suppose my only resource is to repeat and rephrase what I had said.

I didn't say that curly hair doesn't reflect light. I said that straight hair, consisting mostly of smooth surfaces, reflects light better.


And I said (since it appears we're cherry picking here, and the full thing needs to be repeated) that it was ONE of the reasons why I prefer straight hair.

term122
July 24th, 2012, 01:40 AM
Am I the only one who has NO FLIPPING IDEA what you're on about?

What are you on about? Could you explain it in simple terms for a simple curly headed person?
I'm afraid it's taken me years of learning to reach this state of intelligence and perspicacity; it's not something that can be simply explained to someone at the starting line. Think of it as being akin to a buzz cut trying to communicate with a knee length long hair veteran. :cool:

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 01:42 AM
^^^

I didn't read thinly veiled insults in any of that :shrug: I mean, I could say that when people insist that curly hair is so versatile and interesting, they're really saying that straight hair is boring. Should the straighties then pop up and talk about the insinuated insults about their hair?


One person has a preference, and if this is how they explain the world, why dwell on the perceived insult that may very well not be in there?


If I reacted like some of the people in this very thread, I could say "Well, it looks like the curlies have picked out one dissenter and are getting out the pitchforks!" Just let it slide.


And, the dissenter isn't going to learn about anyone's touchy spots (and how to avoid those pitfalls) if everyone on their mother insists on misinterpreting some innocuous musing.

And so they should. I never said straight hair is boring, and I won't say that. I don't believe it is boring. I love it.

Your dissenter isn't just dissenting, she is being rude, offensive and inflammatory. She knows it.


I'm afraid it's taken me years of learning to reach this state of intelligence and perspicacity; it's not something that can be simply explained to someone at the starting line. Think of it as being akin to a buzz cut trying to communicate with a knee length long hair veteran. :cool:

Is it fun all the way up there on your horse?

Bene
July 24th, 2012, 01:47 AM
And so they should. I never said straight hair is boring, and I won't say that. I don't believe it is boring. I love it.

Your dissenter isn't just dissenting, she is being rude, offensive and inflammatory. She knows it.



Is it fun all the way up there on your horse?



NOT IN THE LEAST.


Although I think the nitpicking at a throw off opinion can lead to someone becoming inflammatory. Take my words with a grain of salt, really, but this is going no where good and it's doing so real fast.



And with that, I have a peapod colored calorimetry to finish, a color not unlike the stuff that the little girl from The Exorcist puked up all over Father Karras.



Term, good luck, buddy. I tried. I hope this thread doesn't turn you off from the entire site.

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 01:49 AM
NOT IN THE LEAST.


Although I think the nitpicking at a throw off opinion can lead to someone becoming inflammatory. Take my words with a grain of salt, really, but this is going no where good and it's doing so real fast.

Oh, so making harsh generalisations, telling people that they'd look prettier if they straighten their hair and saying human eyes prefer one type of hair is not being inflammatory?

I guess it's our fault for setting her off.

:rolleyes:

term122
July 24th, 2012, 01:56 AM
I find it amusing when black women jump into battle. This is just my stereotype from my personal observations, but you don't seem to be very smart, you don't even bother to read or understand what you're trying to argue against, you simply step in determined to assert yourself as noisily and forcefully as possible. You use no elegance, subtly, or wit. That is simply my interpretation and I know that a some people like those traits in women but I'm far from one of them.

Anyways I'm out for now, I can only see this conversation getting more and more barbarian at this stage which I don't want to partake in. :D

jeanniet
July 24th, 2012, 01:56 AM
The notion that there's some biological imperative behind the prejudice against curly hair (and BTW, I've never seen it myself--people are always telling me they wish they had my hair) doesn't make sense in a cultural context, not if you look at preferences over time. Straight hair is in now, so that's what people want, especially because the media tells them that's what they want (or should want), but that's not the way it's always been, nor how it will always be. Is there some evolutionary advantage to straight hair over curly? Could be, I suppose. But IMO, the main reason for the preference of hair type--or length, or thickness, or color--is cultural, plain and simple. If the media were to announce tomorrow that straight, blonde hair was hideous, there'd be a lot more brunettes. ;)

Not speaking in terms of personal preference, just to be clear. I like curly hair, and enjoy my own hair very much. I also happen to love thin, fine, straight hair--probably because it's so different from my own.

And just to add: intelligence doesn't necessarily mean smart. Just sayin'.

Blond On Blond
July 24th, 2012, 02:02 AM
I find it amusing when black women jump into battle.

:confused:


This is just my stereotype from my personal observations, but you don't seem to be very smart, you don't even bother to read or understand what you're trying to argue against, you simply step in determined to assert yourself as noisily and forcefully as possible. You use no elegance, subtly, or wit.

:confused:


Anyways I'm out for now, I can only see this conversation getting more and more barbarian at this stage which I don't want to partake in. :D

:confused:

DarkCurls
July 24th, 2012, 02:03 AM
I find it amusing when black women jump into battle. This is just my stereotype from my personal observations, but you don't seem to be very smart, you don't even bother to read or understand what you're trying to argue against, you simply step in determined to assert yourself as noisily and forcefully as possible. You use no elegance, subtly, or wit. That is simply my interpretation and I know that a some people like those traits in women but I'm far from one of them.

:D

Oh. My. God. I can't believe you said that. I've been watching the thread from afar because I hate to get in the middle of this kind of thing on a forum, but this... that was just too much. This, coupled with everything else you've said. You're not even trying to be polite.
I agree that you are being very inflammatory.
I'm not going to post again, because I think this thread has turned sour.
Bene, I found your every post well thought-out and polite to the extreme -- just thought I'd say that since not everyone seems to agree. Even though I disagree with your opinion, I know it's a matter of personal preference and this thread was bound to lead to some disagreements.

jeanniet
July 24th, 2012, 02:10 AM
What term has said aren't merely speculations. It's an opinion that I hold as well. And I've been saying similar stuff all up and down this site for years :laugh:


I can say why I find straight hair more attractive than curly hair. It's not boring at all, as opposed to what the gung-ho curly lovers have been touting for 20 pages or so.

It's about the sleekness, it appeals to my sense of aesthetics. It has order in a way that I find pleasant to look at. Very similar to why I dislike modern jazz or abstract splotchy art. It lacks order. Show me an apple that looks like an apple, not your interpretation of an apple that looks like a can of purple paint vomited violently all over a canvas. Play music that I can hum along to because I can predict where the next bar is going. One person's versatility can be another person's unsightly disorder.


Also, it's smooth and reflects light better because of that smoothness. It appeals to my "Oooooh, shiny!" magpie-like tendencies :laugh:


Because of these reasons I am less likely to compliment curly hair than straight hair. It's got to be one magnificent head of curly hair before I say anything nice about it, since I'm not one to give false compliments to things I don't feel deserve my praise.

And NO, I'm not saying that curly hair is unsightly, I'm just explaining why I find straight hair more attractive.
The thing about what we believe to be personal preference, though, is that we can never really be sure it's personal at all. Nearly everything we are is influenced by the larger culture--even those who reject society at large almost always align themselves with an alternate culture--as well as by the smaller culture of family and friends. So there are really very few "personal" preferences that are truly personal at all. Not that people are aware of it, or that there aren't rationalizations for it, but we don't live in a vacuum, and our opinions/preferences aren't just born out of thin air.

All a child has to hear is a few offhand references to nice straight hair or ugly curly hair (or just as easily vice versa), and a preference is born without that child ever realizing as an adult where the notion originated. It's not just hair, but everything. If you could raise an infant to adulthood in a complete cultural vacuum, and then asked them to tell you what they preferred, you'd get a truer answer, if you were able to communicate with them at all.

jeanniet
July 24th, 2012, 02:15 AM
Oh. My. God. I can't believe you said that. I've been watching the thread from afar because I hate to get in the middle of this kind of thing on a forum, but this... that was just too much. This, coupled with everything else you've said. You're not even trying to be polite.
I agree that you are being very inflammatory.


I believe that the intent at this point is to bait. I'll let the mods sort this one out.

Oh, and SHE is a HE, and based on previous comments in this thread not kindly disposed towards women (hence the baiting). :rolleyes:

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 02:18 AM
I find it amusing when black women jump into battle. This is just my stereotype from my personal observations, but you don't seem to be very smart, you don't even bother to read or understand what you're trying to argue against, you simply step in determined to assert yourself as noisily and forcefully as possible. You use no elegance, subtly, or wit. That is simply my interpretation and I know that a some people like those traits in women but I'm far from one of them.

Anyways I'm out for now, I can only see this conversation getting more and more barbarian at this stage which I don't want to partake in. :D

If the 'black women' you're referring to includes me, for the record, I'm not black.

To the black women on here you've just insulted, I'm sorry that this horrible character decided to infest this thread with his ignorance, disgusting opinions and questionable character.

I'll be reporting his. I hope other follow suit.

Blond On Blond
July 24th, 2012, 02:20 AM
I'll be reporting her. I hope other follow suit.


It's a guy. I've reported him also.

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 02:23 AM
Since you've chosen to take what I've said out of context, I suppose my only resource is to repeat and rephrase what I had said.

I didn't say that curly hair doesn't reflect light. I said that straight hair, consisting mostly of smooth surfaces, reflects light better.


And I said (since it appears we're cherry picking here, and the full thing needs to be repeated) that it was ONE of the reasons why I prefer straight hair.

Apologies. I missed this.

I didn't take what you said out of context. It was entirely in context. You're saying straight hair reflects light better. That is a generalisation, since not all heads of hair are of the same texture or health, regardless of curl or lack thereof.

My hair appears shinier when it's curly, believe it or not.

Could you please show me a picture of two almost indentical heads of hair, same texture, same thickness of strands, but one 1a and one 3b, and show me which one is shinier?

MintChocChip
July 24th, 2012, 02:24 AM
I find it amusing when black women jump into battle. This is just my stereotype from my personal observations, but you don't seem to be very smart, you don't even bother to read or understand what you're trying to argue against, you simply step in determined to assert yourself as noisily and forcefully as possible. You use no elegance, subtly, or wit. That is simply my interpretation and I know that a some people like those traits in women but I'm far from one of them.

Anyways I'm out for now, I can only see this conversation getting more and more barbarian at this stage which I don't want to partake in. :D

I'm sorry but this is completely unnecessary and racist! And to say that CurlyCurves has no 'elegance, subtly, or wit' is very rude. I'm sorry but you've really gone too far. :(

italianamama
July 24th, 2012, 02:24 AM
It's a guy. I've reported him also.

I reported him as well. If he prefers his women silent and subjugated, he came to the WRONG place.

:bs:

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 02:25 AM
It's a guy. I've reported him also.

Thank you.

Gah, this whole thread turned into a train wreck. Don't feel any better about having curls now.

But a big thank you to most of the people in this thread. 99&#37; were lovely. Great community we have here :o

ETA; Yes, you're right. It's a guy :rollin:

Bene
July 24th, 2012, 02:27 AM
The thing about what we believe to personal preference, though, is that we can never really be sure it's personal at all. Nearly everything we are is influenced by the larger culture--even those who reject society at large almost always align themselves with an alternate culture--as well as by the smaller culture of family and friends. So there are really very few "personal" preferences that are truly personal at all. Not that people are aware of it, or that there aren't rationalizations for it, but we don't live in a vacuum, and our opinions/preferences aren't just born out of thin air.

All a child has to hear is a few offhand references to nice straight hair or ugly curly hair (or just as easily vice versa), and a preference is born without that child ever realizing as an adult where the notion originated. It's not just hair, but everything. If you could raise an infant to adulthood in a complete cultural vacuum, and then asked them to tell you what they preferred, you'd get a truer answer, if you were able to communicate with them at all.


I grew up in the time when big curly hair was the most beautiful thing in the world, and everyone was out getting perms. I had the straight hair at the time, I just preferred what I had because I thought it looked pretty. If it were just about what I'd seen as a kid, right now I'd be all "OMG curly hair is the best!" Sure, culture does have an impact on preferences, but not always.

Also, leaning towards cultural influence as the ONLY reason for preferences is a mistake, I think. All nurture and no nature can lead to some misconstrued explanations for things. There are biological reasons that can explain behavior, and I think the best way to really get down to what people do or think is to explore both avenues.


My brain is wired to prefer order. Straight lines, solid rhythms, neutral colors. My cousin (who grew up with me) is a big fan of modern jazz, and her house is decorated with bright smears of paint on the walls, which she calls "art". I think, in some cases, preference is a matter of nature. And I think that explains why some people don't follow the current trends, it they don't necessarily coincide with what those people find appealing.




Besides, I do think it's kind of demeaning to tell someone that their preference is based solely on what the current trend is (not that you said that), especially if their preference was developed before the current trend. It's like "You don't know what you like, you've been brainwashed by the media", which is just wrong to assume all around.



Oy, this calorimetry isn't going to get done tonight :nono:

CurlyCurves
July 24th, 2012, 02:27 AM
I'm sorry but this is completely unnecessary and racist! And to say that CurlyCurves has no 'elegance, subtly, or wit' is very rude. I'm sorry but you've really gone too far. :(

Thank you <3

I still find it funny that this person, man or woman, assumed me as black. And I find it funny that they thought fit to paint one race of people with the same brush.

Ah well, a troll I suspect. No sane or normal person does this. Unless they have no social skills, which I also suspect.

Hollyfire3
July 24th, 2012, 08:55 AM
What makes you think it's okay to say something like that, whether or not you're trying to be funny?

I could very well easily turn around and say "your hair would look nice if you got rid of the greasy stringy look".

But that wouldn't be very nice, would it?



Am I the only one who has NO FLIPPING IDEA what you're on about?

What are you on about? Could you explain it in simple terms for a simple curly headed person?



It seems to me like you're waffling on about a whole lot of nothing. Just typing words for the sake of it.

I can see, however, that you're using intellect and words to cover up thinly veiled insults. You can't get that past me.

CurlyCurves, I am the one being told to straighten my hair to be pretty, the reference is to me.

Hollyfire3
July 24th, 2012, 09:01 AM
I'm afraid it's taken me years of learning to reach this state of intelligence and perspicacity; it's not something that can be simply explained to someone at the starting line. Think of it as being akin to a buzz cut trying to communicate with a knee length long hair veteran. :cool:

Having fun calling wonderful CurlyCurves stupid? :confused:
You can kindly explain to her that you meant me when you suggested someone straighten her hair, you were saying I read what you typed wrong, hence the reading comprehension part, and you added the sweet comment of reading comprehension because you believe a little bit of hurting is a "good" thing. Alright, see, I just explained what you meant, does this mean I'm NOT stupid? And I don't have knee length hair either yet....and from the looks of it, neither do you.

DaniVerde
July 24th, 2012, 09:05 AM
Hollyfire, relax and breathe. Don't waste your time :)

Hollyfire3
July 24th, 2012, 09:07 AM
Hollyfire, relax and breathe. Don't waste your time :)

Thanks, I'm trying, really, I am. I just get so annoyed when people start going all "I'm smart then you, sorry you're so stupid and can't understand". I consider myself an inteligent human being and consider the people here this also, so it just, I couldn't take what was being said about CurlyCurves, especially from a new member who doesn't really know her (or any of us for that matter.) Do you know if he has been reported, I know some people were, I would like to also, how can I go about doing this?

wooliswonderful
July 24th, 2012, 09:12 AM
Hi CurlyCurves! Your hair is beautiful. Yesterday I was picking up some groceries and the check-out person was a girl about your age with gorgeous dark shiny curls just like yours. I couldn't stop looking at her hair. It was BSL and she was wearing it down and it was amazing.
I should have complimented her but didn't know what to say without sounding weird.

DaniVerde
July 24th, 2012, 09:12 AM
Thanks, I'm trying, really, I am. I just get so annoyed when people start going all "I'm smart then you, sorry you're so stupid and can't understand". I consider myself an inteligent human being and consider the people here this also, so it just, I couldn't take what was being said about CurlyCurves, especially from a new member who doesn't really know her (or any of us for that matter.) Do you know if he has been reported, I know some people were, I would like to also, how can I go about doing this?

Don't worry, I understand :)

I blew the whistle on this thread a few hours ago...let's see what the mods have to say ;)

DancingQueen
July 24th, 2012, 09:18 AM
I know what you mean. I hated my curly hair until I was 17, when I started to wear it curly after 5 years of straightening. I was even told I have witch-hair by a schoolmate once.

I think it is because curly hair is a little harder to control than straight hair. It takes longer to care for, and a lot of girls never learn how to care for their curly hair. When properly styled, it is at least as sexy and seductive as straight hair.

I think it is simply because it is more difficult to style than straight hair.

Hollyfire3
July 24th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Don't worry, I understand :)

I blew the whistle on this thread a few hours ago...let's see what the mods have to say ;)

Oh good! Thanks for doing that! I just am so baffled by what was taking place...one second I posted responding to somethign that offended me, next second there was an all out argument. Gla dits beign taken care of now.

LeaM07
July 24th, 2012, 09:24 AM
This thread is currently under discussion and is being temporarily closed. Thanks to all who reported.

If you haven't read this (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/announcement.php?f=12&a=8) already, please do.

ETA: Ok, if you've read the above link, you may resume the discussion (the original one, please).

:eye:

akilina
July 24th, 2012, 07:51 PM
Assuming I can post again hopefully..:] Mods post says it is open to original discussion...

I am finding more and more lately I love curls. Also as of late, I am finding myself becoming envious of people who have curls naturally.
Like pretty tight-ish sort of loose-ish ringlet curls. Not too too crazy, but something different.
I wish we could just change our hair type at the snap of a finger or push of a button.
It seems my only options would be to perm it (never happening). I am not interested in using rollers, or damaging my hair with a curling iron daily. The idea for me is to have a little extra body and texture naturally, on its own without having to do anything damaging.
I envy you all with curls!

holothuroidea
July 24th, 2012, 07:57 PM
Assuming I can post again hopefully..:] Mods post says it is open to original discussion...

I am finding more and more lately I love curls. Also as of late, I am finding myself becoming envious of people who have curls naturally.
Like pretty tight-ish sort of loose-ish ringlet curls. Not too too crazy, but something different.
I wish we could just change our hair type at the snap of a finger or push of a button.
It seems my only options would be to perm it (never happening). I am not interested in using rollers, or damaging my hair with a curling iron daily. The idea for me is to have a little extra body and texture naturally, on its own without having to do anything damaging.
I envy you all with curls!

Have you heard of Caruso molecular steam rollers? They are fantastic, I think they might give you what you want and with zero damage. They are actually very moisturizing and gentle. I can get ringlets with them.

akilina
July 24th, 2012, 08:14 PM
Have you heard of Caruso molecular steam rollers? They are fantastic, I think they might give you what you want and with zero damage. They are actually very moisturizing and gentle. I can get ringlets with them.
I should check em out :0 I hear them mentioned so much on here.
My mom offered me some hot rollers a few years back but I didn't want them. I would be bummed if I came to find out that they were caruso rollers. I think they were purple. I will have to ask if she still has them :]

holothuroidea
July 24th, 2012, 08:25 PM
I should check em out :0 I hear them mentioned so much on here.
My mom offered me some hot rollers a few years back but I didn't want them. I would be bummed if I came to find out that they were caruso rollers. I think they were purple. I will have to ask if she still has them :]

Caruso rollers are red. They are also sponge-type rollers, not hard barreled. The steam unit heats up rollers individually and not at the same time on a tray like traditional hot rollers.

You might really like them! They are not too expensive.

Here they are on amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Caruso-C97953-SalonPro-Molecular-Hairsetter/dp/B0002JKPB8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1343183066&sr=8-2&keywords=caruso+rollers)

Okay, I'm done enabling for the night! ;)

HintOfMint
July 24th, 2012, 08:38 PM
I'm glad this thread was re-opened because I just thought of something that I really wanted to share here.

When I was in high school, every year the yearbook would have "best ____" and "most likely to..." You know the drill. Every single year for best hair, it was always someone with long super curly hair. 3b or 3c level curly hair. In all colors, too. Every. Single. Year. And this was 2001 to 2005, so during a good deal of the flat-ironing craze.

Vintagecoilylocks
July 24th, 2012, 08:38 PM
I agree to a point with the OP. Curly short hair is cute. SHL to BSL is sexy. Just look at the sex symbols of the 1940's. Even Tarzan's Jane is portrayed with a curlier full mane of BSL to MBL hair. Then beyond BSL is portrayed as romantic and feminine woman. Lots of turn of the century and medevil heroines come to mind. Even if it is coifed and put up. We all know or imagine it to be curly and long in those time periods. Watch any costume story or movie. The length has a lot to do with the image the curls create. I think for one, children are short curly head people from boys to girls and that image translates to adults who wear short curly styles. Even men seem young and cute when they wear their hair long enough to curl. I preferr the longer and curly. I invision a wide range of woman when I think of it that way but have to admitt I attribute to them strength of beauty and feminitity.

Nedertane
July 24th, 2012, 08:58 PM
IRRELEVANT STRAIGHTIE OPINION:

I loved curls and waves when I was a kid, and wanted them pretty badly. I don't *think* I thought of them as being "wild" or "crazy," but just you know, pretty. Perhaps since it wasn't what I had. :D I learned to accept my hair when I got older though, and of course accept others. In fact, CurlyCurves, yours is beautiful, especially when I take a moment to look at the shine it has!

As for the whole professional thing, I work with a girl who has curly hair that actually kind of reminds me of the wigs that were worn in the 17th and 18th centuries, when THOSE curls marked you as someone professional and/or aristocratic (and I don't mean that her hair looks fake, it's just that it matches the texture of the wigs from that time almost exactly). Funny how everyone forgets that trend in history.

And I'm surprised the men you asked said they preferred straight hair. Most (hetero) guys I come across just don't care either way. On the topic of attraction, though this might not be totally relevant, since it's not regarding how men find women attractive, I'm dating a guy with long curly hair (3b or c, I'd say?), and it is SO NICE. It suits him well, he takes good care of it (he even puts argan oil in it! Can't believe I found him! :D) and it's pillowy soft... like his personality. :o

No one should be made to feel bad about what kind of hair they have. Even if one person has a snotty comment about it, you can find scores more who like it, or who are even attracted to it, whatever kind of hair it is.


Heh, alright, disorganized rant over.

brave
July 24th, 2012, 10:37 PM
When I was little I wanted straight, sleek hair, preferably black. I hated the ways my curls went up instead of down and someone once told me that red hair clashed with pink and pink was my favorite color.

Now I'm older. I know my hair won't ever be straight, and I'd look stupid if I dyed it black. Over the years the hair I hated quickly became "me" -- I'd still love to see what it looks like straight someday, but I wouldn't really want to get rid of my actual texture. I don't think I'm alone in vaguely feeling like my hair texture is a part of my personality, as ridiculous as that sounds.

However that definitely doesn't stop me from admiring and fantasizing about different textures! I envy everybody! You see people with wild wooly locks and people with sleek shiny manes and wild curls and graceful swoops and I'd love to try it all on. At the end of the day I think I find curly hair slightly more attractive, but I like a little bit of chaos.

One person did do a very informal experiment (http://www.divinecaroline.com/24138/41884-curly-vs-straight-which-do) on how men reacted to different hair textures online. It's an interesting article but I don't think I'd take it very seriously just because there's so many variables not accounted for. Even so, the reactions from men when she turned up with the opposite of what they expected, hair texture wise, was generally "meh". Boys. :rolleyes:

spirals
July 24th, 2012, 10:42 PM
I used to know a guy that liked my "wild" hair, as he put it. :)

Kyla
July 24th, 2012, 10:46 PM
I'm glad this thread was re-opened because I just thought of something that I really wanted to share here.

When I was in high school, every year the yearbook would have "best ____" and "most likely to..." You know the drill. Every single year for best hair, it was always someone with long super curly hair. 3b or 3c level curly hair. In all colors, too. Every. Single. Year. And this was 2001 to 2005, so during a good deal of the flat-ironing craze.

I only got a senior yearbook, but it had the same thing. The girl who won had amazing dark curls, about apl. Amazingly pretty.

nikir1914
July 24th, 2012, 11:56 PM
I also get told that my hair looks nice straight, but only because I do it like once a year. Everyone tells me they love my curly/wavy hair. Sometimes its wavy, sometimes its curly. But my sisters BF always touches my hair and says how nice it is.:) I personally think curly hair is best because straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/ Curly hair bounces and looks much different than straight!

Nedertane
July 25th, 2012, 12:29 AM
I also get told that my hair looks nice straight, but only because I do it like once a year. Everyone tells me they love my curly/wavy hair. Sometimes its wavy, sometimes its curly. But my sisters BF always touches my hair and says how nice it is.:) I personally think curly hair is best because straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/ Curly hair bounces and looks much different than straight!

Erm, gee, thanks...

dulce
July 25th, 2012, 12:51 AM
Another plus for curly hair,when you are older your hair tends to thin somewhat and I've noticed my curly hair and it's pouf makes my hair look thicker than it actually is now.Another bonus for curly!

Falcore
July 25th, 2012, 01:49 AM
I personally think curly hair is best because straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/ Curly hair bounces and looks much different than straight!

Please be aware that comments you make can hurt others. There are a lot of people on this forum with straight hair..

Phalaenopsis
July 25th, 2012, 02:13 AM
I also get told that my hair looks nice straight, but only because I do it like once a year. Everyone tells me they love my curly/wavy hair. Sometimes its wavy, sometimes its curly. But my sisters BF always touches my hair and says how nice it is.:) I personally think curly hair is best because straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/ Curly hair bounces and looks much different than straight!


Please be aware that comments you make can hurt others. There are a lot of people on this forum with straight hair..

I'm actually okay with this :) I've come to accept my hair as it is. If anyone thinks my hair is lifeless, that's their opinion. It won't make me hate my hair and get a perm.:p

I adore curls, from really kinky to spirally... It's so bouncy and fluffy. I adore waves, it looks like a gorgeous waterfall, it's so flowy. Am I jealous sometimes? Why yes, especially when I'm doing a braided updo that looks so much fairytale like with waves or curls. But sleek hair is smooth and silky. So I'm rocking my hair the best way I can and other people should do too, doesn't matter if they're curly or wavy or whatever... Your hair looks at its best when you work with it, not against it ^^

MintChocChip
July 25th, 2012, 04:05 AM
I'm actually okay with this :) I've come to accept my hair as it is. If anyone thinks my hair is lifeless, that's their opinion. It won't make me hate my hair and get a perm.:p

I adore curls, from really kinky to spirally... It's so bouncy and fluffy. I adore waves, it looks like a gorgeous waterfall, it's so flowy. Am I jealous sometimes? Why yes, especially when I'm doing a braided updo that looks so much fairytale like with waves or curls. But sleek hair is smooth and silky. So I'm rocking my hair the best way I can and other people should do too, doesn't matter if they're curly or wavy or whatever... Your hair looks at its best when you work with it, not against it ^^

Ooooh, well said! I really like your comment, you make a good point! I think we're all allowed to appreciate our own hair and envy other people's but everyone should work with what they have and flaunt it because it's all pretty darn gorgeous!

Velvettt
July 25th, 2012, 05:00 AM
nikir1914 said:

I personally think curly hair is best because straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/ Curly hair bounces and looks much different than straight!

You joined the site in 2011 and have made 2 posts, so I'll cut you some slack. MY straight hair is beautiful. MY straight hair makes people gasp and ask to touch it when I let it down in public. No one ever thinks MY straight hair looks lifeless or just hangs there. Your personal thoughts are best kept to yourself if they're all so insulting.

Tisiloves
July 25th, 2012, 05:55 AM
I I personally think curly hair is best because straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/

Mine doesn't, mine tries to stick straight up.:p

MsBubbles
July 25th, 2012, 06:15 AM
straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/

Thirty years of positive self-talk just came back and laughed at me when I saw this little phrase right here! It's not your fault, nikir1914, that I had to hear that awful phrase every time my Mother tried to do something with my hair as a child. I try to laugh it off now, and even called one of my LHC hair albums "But it just hangs there!", to kind of beat everybody else to it.

Oh, and my hair is Dirty Dishwater Blonde, to boot! :p

Phalaenopsis
July 25th, 2012, 06:16 AM
Oh, and my hair is Dirty Dishwater Blonde, to boot! :p
Same here :p

aspartame gram
July 25th, 2012, 07:42 AM
I find it ironic that the male that was insulting and racist had grammatical errors in his post. It's upsetting that people are so blinded by their own self-entitlement and refuse to acknowledge their ignorance.

It is very difficult for any person to feel any value when the myriad ways ideal beauty is represented caters to a smaller demographic. For example, if one is Caucasian, then the ideal is a platinum blonde, tall, symmetrical person usually with straight hair. Or mechanically curled hair. Or if it's an Asian representation, it's also along the same lines. There is a system of how models are selected to represent an entire people, usually much to the demise of those ordinary citizens. Now, when you bring photo-editing skills into the picture--well, it gets that much worse. Despite the fact that we, as people, have these physical differences because of clinal distributions, we still ascribe some value to them. And it hurts.

Curly hair is beautiful. Straight hair is beautiful. I would love curly hair, but alas, I have straight hair. At night, I plop my hair into a bun in order to have some volume the next day. Everyone has a routine. We need to stop ascribing values and personality quirks to people based on their hair--the color, the texture, its length, and etc. It won't stop today, but hopefully in time we can help spread awareness.

Sorry, some of the comments were really upsetting.

justgreen
July 25th, 2012, 09:05 AM
I also get told that my hair looks nice straight, but only because I do it like once a year. Everyone tells me they love my curly/wavy hair. Sometimes its wavy, sometimes its curly. But my sisters BF always touches my hair and says how nice it is.:) I personally think curly hair is best because straight hair just hangs there lifeless.:/ Curly hair bounces and looks much different than straight!


Wow....just wow. This thread came back from the dead , in spite of a male troll. Even though you've been a member for over a year, I count you as brand new. Please do continue to post here, but remember that it is wise to NOT step on toes by your comments.

Yes, I realize this is the internet, but we have very sensitive folks here (I'm one of them). I don't believe in growing a thick skin for this forum. It's all about friendship on the journey to grow long hair or take care of existing short hair.

ETA: I'm a straighty by the way, who loves to curl her hair once in a blue moon because I.LOVE.CURLY.HAIR. I used to torture my hair getting spiral perms twice a year. Now I have the best of both worlds.

cobden 28
July 25th, 2012, 09:21 AM
As a 'straightie' I would love to have curly/wavy hair, just so long as it does something other than just hang there but I've long since learned to accept that the only way I'd ever have curly hair would be if I spent a small fortune at the hairdresser and would probably end up with hair the consistency of a bundle of straw.

I married a man whose hair naturally grows in what they used to call Marcel waves (think 1920's/1930's hairstyles for women); our daughter has hair that's just how I would ideally like my hair to be, sort of curly/wavy with lovely natural 'bounce' but she straightens the bejasus out of her lovely waves/curls :(.

I really do love to see ladies with long wavy/curly hair - I really do have 'hair envy' then - but have learned to accept the hair that I've been given.

Freija
July 25th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Re: the thread title - to heck with that idea! Curly hair is beautiful. Sure, it doesn't have the smoothness and the lovely, rippling fluidity which are the best assets of straight hair, but it doesn't need to have those. It has vibrant shapes and twisting patterns and wildness instead. It's a completely different hair type, and a completely different and equal sort of beauty.

I adore my curls, and let anyone who says otherwise come at me! It has taken me a long time to see them for what they are, and bring out the best in them, rather than trying to force them into something they are not. I used to think my hair was just bad, messy, flippy, frizzy, untidy; I used to hate it so much I cut it right off. But eventually I started growing my hair out, and finally I got a fantastic haircut and found the right products and I have never had so many compliments in my life as I do now. My family and friends call my curls pre-Raphaelite, and my partner is very fond of them.

You are beautiful with whatever your genetics gave you; be it curly hair or straight, ash brown or auburn; whatever your skin tone, your eye colour, your height, your weight (metabolism), your bone structure, your shape; whether you have freckles or long eyelashes or light eyebrows...! Just be proud of those things for what they are, and bring out the best in them, and you will be no less lovely than anybody else. These things have no innate hierarchy and if somebody tries to impose one upon you, based solely on their own aesthetic preferences, do not accept it.

kitschy
July 25th, 2012, 09:36 AM
Oooo, I love straight hair, wavy hair and curly-or kinky-or frizzy hair. In fact I like bald heads. I love diversity. Each person is unique and special and so is each head of hair.

Neecola
July 25th, 2012, 10:22 AM
These things have no innate hierarchy and if somebody tries to impose one upon you, based solely on their own aesthetic preferences, do not accept it.

Spot on, Freija!

For myself, the curly vs. straight argument is irrelevant. There are attributes I like about both. I was born with curly hair that I always thought was unattractive until very recently. It is very freeing to accept my hair the way it is and I wish the same for all.

CornishMaid
July 25th, 2012, 11:02 AM
CurlyCurves - your hair in your profile pic is AMAZING! So thick, shiny & lustrous, it looks gorgeous.

I am a lot older than you, and I wonder what the people in your family think of curly hair? When I was young, most people in my family had straight hair and they were always saying how lucky I was to have naturally curly hair. How they loved curly hair etc etc.

Were you surrounded by family or friends who straightened their hair or had negative opinions about curly hair? Just a thought that if that was the case, then that may be why you are feeling like you do at present.

I have grown up surrounded by family & friends who think curly hair is sexy, beautiful etc just as much as straight hair is. The condition is what is important to most people I know.

There are plenty of celebrities and models out there that have curly hair. I know the trend in recent years has been for slick straight hair, but there are still plenty of people in the media showing off their curls.

You have beautiful hair. It is gorgeous.:cheer::cheer:

CornishMaid
July 25th, 2012, 11:13 AM
snip

I am told my curly hair makes me look 'fun', cute, open. I am not told it makes me look sexy or seductive.

When I have seen men asked which they prefer, an overwhelming majority say they prefer straight hair, or loose curls.

I love my curls, but I am starting to feel insecure about them. Me, of all people. I sometimes crave straight hair, and I don't know why. I love curly hair, and I love mine. I certainly feel sexy when I have a good hair day.

But all this time, in the back of my mind, there is just this little voice reminding me that, while some people may think curly hair is nice, not many people think it's sexy. Many think it's unprofessional, or wild, or 'cute', or just plain not as attractive as straight hair.
Snip



Thoughts? Any fellow curlies, how do you feel about this?

I was just thinking about the bit about curly hair not being "sexy"

Just do a google for "sexy curly hair" and it comes up with a proliferation of articles about how to "get sexy curly hair" or " do" styles in a sexy curly way. Then look at the images that it brings up - so many!

I don't know for sure why you perceive that most people think that sexy doesn't equal curly. But a hell of a lot of people do think sexy = curly hair :)

brave
July 25th, 2012, 11:48 AM
Oooo, I love straight hair, wavy hair and curly-or kinky-or frizzy hair. In fact I like bald heads. I love diversity. Each person is unique and special and so is each head of hair.

Right? I want to be like that character from Ozma of Oz and have a collection of heads with different types of hair on them and wear a different head whenever I feel like it.

Anyone? No?