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View Full Version : Crunchy hair - but no protein buildup?



Loviatar
July 20th, 2012, 05:35 PM
Please help me troubleshoot my hair.

Routine: Chagrin valley shampoo bars. I have hard water. I use an acv rinse of one shot glass full of acv in a litre of water, usually cold. I have used conditioner in the past but have recently thought I didn't need to. I have read the entire shampoo bar thread.

Since heavy oiling* this week, which still didnt feel like I'd got it all out after 3 washes and a clarifying session, I've found that shampoo bars are leaving my hair greasy at the roots and crunchy/plasticky/waxy on the ends/length. Or, it could be the acid rinses doing this. I don't know. I don't know whether the heavy oiling caused the crunchiness, but I want it gone and I dont know how to get rid of it as clarifying has not helped. My hair feels like sticky doll hair, like I have serious coney build up. I get this feeling from cones like cyclopentasiloxane and sometimes dimethicone. But I don't use cones any more and haven't for months.

*The oil was a mixture of emu, amla/sesame mix from hennaboy, and Bhringraj. I have used bhringraj and emu before without any problems.

I was having great results with bars until this past couple of weeks. I have also henna-indigoed last week, BUT I have done a henna-cassia-amla before and not had any ill effects with the bars. I'm considering going back to semi-perm dye instead of henna-indigo just in case.

I have clarified, using an ALS shampoo with baking soda mixed in. I merely got velcro ends. I fixed that with my staple conditioner, Biolage, left on dry hair for 15 mins. The crown and length seemed OK.

Today I washed with a bar and then did an acv rinse and got the same results, oily, waxy, plasticky. I re-wet my hair and did a 50-50 rinse with lime juice and acv. I have a better result, but it's still pretty flat and oily from crown to ears, then plasticky/waxy on the ends. I do have layers, as I'm growing out a pixie, but I dont know if that's got anything to do with it.

I don't want to stop using the bars if I can avoid it. I have got rid of a lot of my old hair products in favour of the CV bars because they were working so well. I've been using them almost exclusively since March and had no problems.

Questions:
Why is my hair doing this?
How can I stop it?
Can shampoo bars build up?
If so, why hasn't my clarifying helped?
Should I chelate as I do have hard water? (I have never chelated)

Many thanks

Madora
July 20th, 2012, 06:50 PM
I'd clarify with a shampoo made for clarifying..i.e. Neutrogena Anti-Residue Clarifying shampoo.

You might need more than one application.

Afterwards, do a simple deep conditioning treatment..emphasis on simple.

Those shampoo bars might be causing part of the problem. Also, try and go easy on combining oils. Hair will react badly if it has too much stuff on it...the various things will "war" with each other and coat the strands too much.

Good luck!

jeanniet
July 20th, 2012, 08:39 PM
I would go past clarifying and use a chelating shampoo. Joico makes one that chelates and clarifies. You'll want to do a DT afterward. See if that helps. You might also want to try citric acid rinses rather than ACV, since citric acid will actually chelate the calcium carbonate that causes the hard water and may have a better effect. :)

MeowScat
July 20th, 2012, 09:30 PM
I agree with the above posts. I had the same problem and what finally helped was conditioning...and a lot of it. Mineral Oil on damp hair helps seal in moisture as well and helps with the crunchies.

Ktani's Mineral Oil Article explains everything beautifully. If it weren't for her, I never would have tried it. 2 - 3 drops is all you need. I use Johnsons Baby Oil and since I use so little, that bottle will last me years!

Loviatar
July 21st, 2012, 07:37 AM
My hair does badly on things with mineral oil in them, MeowScat, I'm afraid. I prefer to use rice bran oil or Panacea for damp oiling/leave ins. I have read ktani's thread and I'm amazed by how well mineral oil is working for people! I may try it, but only once my hair has calmed down.

Thanks Jeanniet and Madora. I have looked everywhere for this Neutrogena, might be time to get it online. I definitely will be getting some Joico. I have had hard water for 4 years now so it's probably overdue...

Madora, my usual deep treatment is just Biolage Balm left for an hour. Is that going to be simple enough or should I use something else?

jacqueline101
July 21st, 2012, 07:53 AM
I agree clarify and maybe the heavy moisture products is causing it.

MeowScat
July 21st, 2012, 08:18 AM
Have you tried Coconut Oil yet? It can penetrate the hair shaft.

My favorite cone-free conditioner is Biolage Conditioning Balm. It's quite pricey, so you could get the generic version at Sally for about seven dollars. I've been using that and my crunchies are finally gone. I thought the only way to get rid of it was to chop it off, I'm so glad I didn't!

I know I've recommended this so many times on other threads, I sound like a broken record. But it's worked miracles for me, even back in my dying and blowfrying days.

FrannyG
July 21st, 2012, 08:30 AM
I agree with jeanniet's idea of not just clarifying but chelating. That hard water really does build up. There are a lot of other inexpensive clarifying shampoos. I don't think you need to go online. Plus, if you get your hands on the Joico chelating shampoo, that will do both jobs for now.

I also agree with Madora about keeping it simple. And in my opinion, the Biolage Balm deep treatment sounds just right. But that's only my opinion.

I am not among the people for whom mineral oil has been a holy grail. It makes my hair feel like doll's hair. I don't like that.

Try the clarifying or chelating, a simple conditioning deep treatment, and see how it is and go from there. Best of luck, and keep us posted. :blossom:

Madora
July 21st, 2012, 08:39 AM
My hair does badly on things with mineral oil in them, MeowScat, I'm afraid. I prefer to use rice bran oil or Panacea for damp oiling/leave ins. I have read ktani's thread and I'm amazed by how well mineral oil is working for people! I may try it, but only once my hair has calmed down.

Thanks Jeanniet and Madora. I have looked everywhere for this Neutrogena, might be time to get it online. I definitely will be getting some Joico. I have had hard water for 4 years now so it's probably overdue...

Madora, my usual deep treatment is just Biolage Balm left for an hour. Is that going to be simple enough or should I use something else?

Hi, Lovitar! I know nothing about Biolage Balm, but luckily FrannyG did!

Loviatar
July 21st, 2012, 08:49 AM
Yes MeowScat, in my post above I say that my favourite DT is Biolage balm. I have a massive tub of it on the side of my bath. I was turned on to it by BBGrrl and it had done me a lot of good. But I don't use it every time I condition, partly because it's pricey and partly because it's quite heavy. I cannot get the generic copy in UK Sally stores, sadly, although my friend has gone to the US on holiday and has promised to try and find some for me. I have tried the generic one and loved it but it is all gone now!

I have tried coconut oil, yes - I use it when I dye my hair. I quite like it for deep oiling before dyeing and also sometimes for using as a leave-in, but not often. I prefer Rice bran oil.

Jacqueline101, I have already clarified and it did not work. I am not using any 'heavy moisture products', other than the Biolage balm which I used after I found the crunchiness - it helped me a lot and certainly did not cause the problem. Did you mean the mixture of oils?

Franny, I thought that my regular ALS shampoo which I mentioned I'd used (it's Tresemme Deep Cleansing) would have been fine as a clarifying shampoo.

I will get the Joico and try that, and do Biolage as a DT afterwards before going back to bars.

I washed this morning with Mud and Clay, the most cleansing bar I own. I then upped my acid rinse to 60ml (30ml lime juice, 30ml acv) plus 900ml water rather than my usual 30ml acv to 900ml ater because Calista's shampoo bar article advises a 100ml to 900ml ratio. I think the addition of citric acid in the lime helped. I conditioned afterwards and it is better. I think going without conditioner may have been a mistake in the past. I know some people can use bars without conditioner but I'm not sure I can. My hair today is slightly dry and crunchy on the ends, but not as bad as it was. The oiliness on crown and length is gone,and the waxies are gone too.

I will try the Joico and see what happens, and I think also playing with my rinse ratio may be a good idea too. I may also try the Biolage after shampoo bars, just to see what it's like - I have a feeling it will be too heavy, but you never know.

earthnut
July 21st, 2012, 04:36 PM
Most shampoos clarify fine, especially sulfate ones or ones with coco betaine. You've certainly already clarified, that's not your problem.

However, not all shampoos will chelate, which you need for hard water. Here's some product ideas: http://nadiasnotes.com/tag/chelating-agents/ Your Tresemme contains EDTA pretty high in the list, so you've probably already chelated too.

I would do a DT with your conditioner.

MeowScat
July 21st, 2012, 04:58 PM
I'm happy you lost some of the crunchies!

I recommend using the Biolage every time, but since it's expensive and heavy, maybe try using it only on the crunchy ends and let it marinate in it for a long time? Instead of using it on your entire length?