Strand Thickness Criteria - Is it a bit vague or is it only me?

[ariesfairies]

First, a recap on the criteria of typing hair width:


F - Fine: Thin strands that sometimes are almost translucent when held up to the light. Shed strands can be hard to see even against a contrasting background. When rolling a strand between your thumb and index finger, fine hair is difficult to feel or it feels like an ultra-fine strand of silk
M - Medium: Strands are neither fine nor coarse. When rolling a strand between your thumb and index finger, medium hair feels like a cotton thread. You can feel it, but it isn't stiff or rough.
C - Coarse: Thick strands that where shed strands usually are easily identified against most backgrounds. When rolling a strand between your thumb and index finger, coarse hair feels hard and wiry. As you roll it back and forth, you may actually hear it.

I unconfidently type myself as an M because of the vagueness of these conditions. I wonder:
At what point does hair be considered hard and wiry?
Aren't you more likely to hear the skin of your finger and thumb rub before Coarse hair is heard?
Translucency is applied to fine hair, but what about blondes? I have bleached blonde streaks and I certainly describe them translucent compared with my blonde friend's, so how does this compare to my brunette hair if it's non-tranlusant, M if the blonde strands are the same as well?
No idea what cotton thread that isn't from a sewing spool feels like that's thin enough to realistically be like hair!


Obviously, it's hard to type yourself especially when you don't have lots of people's hair to compare to. I don't know if I ever seen someone who has hair as what Coarse has been described (ie so thick you can hear it like a piece of hay!). Because of that I don't even think I can rule out Coarse as a possibility.

I'm thinking of using a Scanner (like one for paper) to do a up close "photograph" compared with a strand from non-relative with a ruler to scale to work this out and at least get some visual example to go by, just like the Curliness/Lack thereof hair identification.

Or am I just simply over-thinking it? :doh:

[Audrey Horne]

It is difficult, indeed. And you're not the only one who has these difficulties. I still have hard time determining how fine my hair really is. It isn't like those of babies, not most of it anyway. It isn't medium either. And what is translucent hair-wise? Mine isn't... It is confusing :confused:
I mostly compare to real life world and people I see around me. The majority here seems to be medium, then Indian, Middle Eastern, etc. hair seems mostly to be coarse and that's what in my opinion IS wiry.

[pink.sara]

This is a bit of a wierd one because apart from the fact most of us will have a mix of 2 or more types in there it isn't a concrete answer.

I just stripped out the last of last years henna and reclassified myself as a F.

Thing is my hair is translucent to a certain degree, and you cant feel just one of them if you roll it in your fingers, but if one falls out of course you can see it, it's bright red?!! If it were blonde it may be difficult to see though.

And it has a tendancy to feel quite cobwebby if that makes sense. So I'm going with F... I think... :rolleyes:

[julliams]

I do have strands of hair that are as thick or even thicker than sewing cotton. If you aren't sure if your hair is hard and wiry than it probably isn't. My wiry strands are super wiry and make a crinkly sound when run between my fingers. But I also have those very fine transluscent strands as well that are slippery soft. I guess I have a bit of everything.

[pink.sara]

Just a thought but there is an experiment with a laser pen which can measure diameter of individual strands.

If we had enough people do it we could classify based on strand thickness like we do pony circumference.

This would be slightly harder with the curlies due to the oval nature of the individual strands though.

[bumblebums]

I do have strands of hair that are as thick or even thicker than sewing cotton. If you aren't sure if your hair is hard and wiry than it probably isn't. My wiry strands are super wiry and make a crinkly sound when run between my fingers. But I also have those very fine transluscent strands as well that are slippery soft. I guess I have a bit of everything.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say--if the descriptions of coarse hair sound outlandish to you, you probably don't have it :) I have a friend whose individual hair strands are so thick that you can see each one from 6 ft away. I certainly have nothing like that, so I put myself down as F/M, although I could be a F too. The decision between F and M is the hard one, I think.

[ariesfairies]

Audrey Horne - yes! If what Middle Eastern and Indian have are considered coarse, then I guess then my hair is coarse too? Despite not making noise under my fingertips? Particularly the Middle Eastern hair type, as that's closely related to my heritage. The hair texture of those people are also very similar to mine.

Blonde vs. darker hair for translucency is that blonde hair happens because of less pigment.. so of course all blondes will be translucent?.. Unless saying that pigment is what's making hair thicker that can't explain cases of brunettes with thin hair, like what you mention of comparing your hair with babies with their fine hair, there are brunettes and black haired ones.
Anyway, looking at your photos there, whatever you may be, it's definitely finer hair than me for sure :P

Pink.Sara - With having mixed hair strand types.. even I didn't want to go there with that complication :laugh: You're definitely finer haired yourself as well.

Julliams - and I have no choice but to believe you :o Do they make a crinkly sound just as one strand on their own or if you have a couple put together? Mine certainly does the latter, but maybe that's everybody.

[Anje]

You might be a finey if you have felt the tickle of a loose hair on your body, but you cannot for the life of you find the hair.

[Zesty]

You might be a finey if you have felt the tickle of a loose hair on your body, but you cannot for the life of you find the hair.
This happens to me often. So maybe I should change my classifier to F? :confused:

I agree that strand thickness is difficult. I classified myself F/M because even though I have what I would describe as fine hair, it's not so clear cut with the classifying criteria. I can still feel one (most of them, anyway, and most of the time) when I roll it between my fingers -- but they're definitely not as thick as any cotton thread I've seen. So I've just... compromised? :shrug:

Maybe the criteria are describing the extreme of F and that's why I'm confused.

[Audrey Horne]

Audrey Horne - yes! If what Middle Eastern and Indian have are considered coarse, then I guess then my hair is coarse too? Despite not making noise under my fingertips? Particularly the Middle Eastern hair type, as that's closely related to my heritage. The hair texture of those people are also very similar to mine.

Then you might be it. There is also M/C possibility. I knew a girl whose hair was SOOOO coarse it looked literally like plastic. She had 1a too. And it does make a weird sound. It was kind of like BBB :D

[MsBubbles]

LOL Anje. Yep, that happens to me everyday. Although these days I'm more likely to have bugs crawling over me instead because I don't jump any more. I'm so used to my hair lightly tickling me.

My hair is basically still the same as it was when I was a baby or toddler. It never got any coarser than extremely fine. If you don't fall into either fine or coarse, perhaps you are indeed medium.

I saw a three-foot long hair on the floor in the bathroom of an Indian restaurant once. That thing looked like a vine compared to my hair! I compared them (by putting one of mine on the floor next to it). No question.

[Audrey Horne]

I always wear my hair up, so it never tickles :lol: but it is hard to decide if i am F/M or F. Still. But I am not M, that's for sure.

[ariesfairies]

Anje, with that guideline, yes I remember jumping for at a non-existant spider :laugh: But I saw the hair was sort of half wrapped around my leg, so yep, ruling out "Fine" for sure.

Audrey Horne - Well I'm definitely not like a BBB, I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 the width of that!

[torrilin]

15 micron average fiber diameter is classed as cashmere if it's from a goat. 19.5 micron average fiber diameter is typical for sheep's wool classed as "fine". 30 micron average fiber diameter is typical for sheep's wool classed as medium, or human hair classed as fine. And my hair does compare reasonably well with a medium wool, apart from the no crimp thing.

IIRC 60-70 microns is typical for medium on humans, but is considered unacceptably coarse for sheep, and coarse can be above 120 microns.

That means human hair covers a pretty wide range :).

[Tia2010]

I still don't have a real clue if I'm a F/M or just a M.

I think I'm more of a M but I find myself fitting somewhat into both F and M criteria. I can defiantly see my shed hair, even on a dark surface, but at the same time it feels soft and barely there when I roll it between my fingers...so I eventually gave up and just went with F/M...But honestly, I don't know what it is :shrug:

[ariesfairies]

15 micron average fiber diameter is classed as cashmere if it's from a goat. 19.5 micron average fiber diameter is typical for sheep's wool classed as "fine". 30 micron average fiber diameter is typical for sheep's wool classed as medium, or human hair classed as fine. And my hair does compare reasonably well with a medium wool, apart from the no crimp thing.

IIRC 60-70 microns is typical for medium on humans, but is considered unacceptably coarse for sheep, and coarse can be above 120 microns.

That means human hair covers a pretty wide range :).

Thank you for that! You actually beat me to grabbing that info myself - I just did a scan of my hair and ready to go compare :P

[Mayflower]

I have both M and C hairs, and the coarse ones make a squeaky sound when I rub them between my fingers. If I hold them stretched and 'hit' them with my nails, they actually make a sound like a string of a guitar or something.

[ariesfairies]

I have both M and C hairs, and the coarse ones make a squeaky sound when I rub them between my fingers. If I hold them stretched and 'hit' them with my nails, they actually make a sound like a string of a guitar or something.

Just tried this and well they definitely made a noise! Also when I tug on it they make a tiny "boing!". (not tugged from the hair root, down towards the end)



And I did the scan! Here it be. The darker hair is obviously mine, the very light hair below it is my friend's (both threads were caressed out via running fingers through hair, we're not crazy!)

There is no way in hell I'll be able to measure this in microns though :laugh:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2nldamu.jpg
^ Zoomed up and contrasted. I was surprised by the width of her hair because I'd have never classified it as fine until now. Should have thought so earlier, because snap clips slip out on her. I guess the caution in choosing "Medium" for myself was safe afterall.

http://i46.tinypic.com/1oaqmr.jpg
This one is scanned at 600 pixels per square inch (unzoomed scan, before I snipped some of the tapering end off). I could probably do some math and count pixels on that but it's late here so I'll save that heavy stuff for the morning :P 1 mm = 1000 microns :thud:


Anyway, anyone else with a bit of scanner know-how, it would be cool to compare!

[brave]

I posted a picture of a bunch of shed hairs and people said it looked coarse so I went with it. It feels coarse and wiry most of the time. I would say yours are probably on the coarser side but I think it has almost more to do with the way hair behaves.

When I look around I notice a lot of people with m hair. It flows, it's sort of silky, if they put it in a bun it droops out gracefully. A smaller amount of people have f hair, which is silkier and more flyaway and very soft looking.

Then there is my hair, which spurts out of buns and sticks out of braids - OUT, not down - and holds its shape stubbornly. I figure that's pretty close to coarse.

[Elanadi]

You might be a finey if you have felt the tickle of a loose hair on your body, but you cannot for the life of you find the hair.
This is my hair exactly! I swear I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to find and remove those loose hairs, they drive me NUTS!!! :laugh:

A lot of my hair is translucent as individual strands, even though together it's all light brown. There is some color variation within the strands, but some of them are so fine they barely seem to be there. I have never seen a strand of shred hair on my carpet, even though my hair is darker than my carpet and I know from my vacuum cleaner that I shed plenty.

[Bagginslover]

I have all 3 types on my head, stipud hair!! My coarse hat you can hear across the room when I run it in my fingers, and my finest are as fine as the alpaca hair I'm working with at the moment. Most of my hair (the canopy) is a nice medium/fine though, which I like very much :)

[earthnut]

M - Medium: Strands are neither fine nor coarse. When rolling a strand between your thumb and index finger, medium hair feels like a cotton thread. You can feel it, but it isn't stiff or rough.

I think if your hair is as thick as sewing thread, it's coarse, not medium. I don't know anyone whose hair is near as thick as sewing thread. That's thick!

I looked it up. Sewing thread is around 150 microns. A toothbrush bristle is 130 microns. Not medium.

[Slug Yoga]

Interesting thread! It was really cool to see the zoomed-up photos and micron measurements. earthnut, I agree, a cotton thread seems like it would be way thicker than most people's hair strands!

I don't have the problems or characteristics of either fine hair or coarse hair, based on other people's descriptions, so I count myself as medium. And yeah, I can get it to make a musical sound when I pluck it! Does that work for you fine and coarse-haired people as well? Would you get different tones? :pinktongue:

[patienceneeded]

My hair is mostly M, with some random C hairs thrown in. DD's hair is very fine, DH has incredibly coarse hair. It's like a wire brush! He keeps it cut very short, it grows out of his head like a bush.

[jeanniet]

I have all 3 types, so that makes it easy to figure out which is which, lol. I understand your confusion, though, because it doesn't seem like all hairs fit right into the criteria. I don't think my C hairs are all that wiry, for instance, just more...robust, I guess, than the M and F hairs.

[moxamoll]

I like this method for testing hair thickness (http://scienceyhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/06/is-your-hair-fine-medium-or-coarse-how.html). It seems a lot more concrete than the description on the site here, but you don't need access to lasers or anything to do it! Of course, there will be variation on your head, but at some point, you have to say "close enough".

It's more of a guideline than a rule. ;)

[Kayleigh]

I admit, I'm a bit of a lurker :wannabe: , but I just couldn't refrain myself from replying this time. :)

But I remember reading somewhere about the 'needle' trick to define the thickness of your hair. It's just basically when you take 1 hair and see if you can get it through the eye of a (normal-sized) needle. When you hardly can or can't do it at all you're hair is probably thick, and when you can you're probably medium or fine. Don't know if it works though, I never needed to try since there is no doubt in this world my hair is fine. ;)

[CurlyCurves]

I think I'm F/M, but I find it extremely vague as well :/

[Amygirl8]

I know that I have fairly fine hair, so I guessed on both the thickness and hair thickness.
I'm not fully sure I'm a F/M and a i/ii, but I figured that they're between fine/thin and medium, which is what I guess my hair to be.

It was confusing for me as well.

[UltraBella]

I have medium and coarse strands, my daughter has very fine strands. There is a HUGE difference between our hairs if you roll them between your fingers. It's crazy.

I have picked up a pop can that was over half full with one strand of hair being looped through the tab. Daughter and I were testing the strength of my coarse strands just for fun and it was pretty impressive.

[Tia2010]

I have medium and coarse strands, my daughter has very fine strands. There is a HUGE difference between our hairs if you roll them between your fingers. It's crazy.

I have picked up a pop can that was over half full with one strand of hair being looped through the tab. Daughter and I were testing the strength of my coarse strands just for fun and it was pretty impressive.


I remember seeing that picture! I was impressed but I knew not to try it... I hate to waste soda and there was no doubt my hair would not have done that and my poor soda would have been down the drain :D

[ariesfairies]

I like this method for testing hair thickness (http://scienceyhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/06/is-your-hair-fine-medium-or-coarse-how.html). It seems a lot more concrete than the description on the site here, but you don't need access to lasers or anything to do it! Of course, there will be variation on your head, but at some point, you have to say "close enough".

It's more of a guideline than a rule. ;)

I just tried it! The worst part was trying to make sure none were sitting on top of eachother. Thank you so much!

(I fit 12 hairs so it dictates now that I am a Medium :cool:)



I admit, I'm a bit of a lurker :wannabe: , but I just couldn't refrain myself from replying this time. :)

But I remember reading somewhere about the 'needle' trick to define the thickness of your hair. It's just basically when you take 1 hair and see if you can get it through the eye of a (normal-sized) needle. When you hardly can or can't do it at all you're hair is probably thick, and when you can you're probably medium or fine. Don't know if it works though, I never needed to try since there is no doubt in this world my hair is fine. ;)

You know I bet most of us have viewed the forums here more than they ever would post in one day, I know that's me with 200 or so posts, I've spent hours just reading here :P

Anyway, I have a large array of sewing needles of many sizes for sewing satin to sewing jeans, and I'm sure I'll fit some but not others! Where the threshold lies, is the real question.



A question for those who have mixed strand types:
Do you count the soft new-growths around the temples and along the hair line as well? Or even, are you finding these finer/coarser strands all over your head, and not just those parts?

I forgot to consider them when I made this thread, mostly because yes, they're new sprouts of growth and will finish their tapering shape once they age and get longer.

[Mesmerise]

Yeah, I find the descriptions a bit vague too... I call myself F/M because I don't think my strands are baby fine, and they're certainly visible... but they don't feel at all like a strand of cotton either, because they are certainly smaller than that! That being said, I can certainly FEEL them when they're between my fingers (or in my socks or down my back or somewhere annoying :p).

I may try that link for determining strand thickness by seeing how many strands fit into a mm (although I imagine that is sort of difficult given how annoying bits of hair go everywhere).

Well, I'll do it when my hair is not bunned! Hrmm or I'll go find out how many hairs are currently stuck in my tangle teezer hehe!

[missdelarocha]

Agh I love that science-y hair blog!! Thank you!

[Katze]

I call mine F/M because I have strands that are like spiderweb, translucent and weightless, on my crown, and strands that are like cotton thread, where I can feel them under my fingers, at my nape. As a kid all my hair was fine, so when the M hairs (and even some C hairs, I think - they look like horsehair) started coming in, I could not figure out what was wrong with my hair - I always thought it was damaged at the root and grew 'wrong.'

Many people do seem to have mixed types. My DH is mostly fine, but thick, but I have found M strands (his grey hairs) too. Remember humanity is genetically such a mix that it really makes sense that our hair shows it!

[earthnut]

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd252/earthnutty/Hair/P1060233.jpg
My hair is medium. You can see in the last photo it's thicker than a coarse rug wool fiber and thinner than a toothbrush bristle. Coarse wool is about 40 microns and toothbrush bristles are 130 microns. Fine hair is about 40 microns thick, medium hair is about 60-80 microns, and coarse hair is about 100 microns. Based on the photo above, I guess my hair is about 60 microns.