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LaFlor
July 6th, 2012, 07:51 PM
I was watching a makeover type show a few weeks ago (I can't remember the name of it).

The woman getting the makeover had virgin hair that she had pretty much benignly neglected since she wasn't sure what to do with it.

When it came time for the stylist to do her hair he told her that her hair was too healthy and that it needed some damage to make it more voluminous and manageable. He explained that some people need a little damage in their hair to make it look better.

My first reaction was :confused:. After so much time on LHC, even the word damage brings all kind of horrible feelings in me.

But then I got to thinking about my own hair. I can remember having virgin hair that had never been exposed to heat and that was really healthy... and it was really flat and slippery. It couldn't hold bun waves to save it's life and would never stay in any kind of hairstyle.

At the moment my hair has been chemically treated with highlights and it does act different. It doesn't look noticeably damaged, but it does have more volume, holds waves, and doesn't slip out of updos quite as easily (although that is still a problem). I can even see it in my virgin roots, my hair lays much differently (flatter) than it did when my highlights were close to my scalp.

It makes me think that maybe there is some truth to what the stylist was saying. That maybe some hairtypes do better to have a little damage?

Has anyone else noticed that their hair acts/looks better after it has recieved a little mistreatment? That damage gave you that extra volume or hold that you needed?

Could someone's hair possibly be too healthy?

I'm not encouraging anyone to damage their hair on purpose, because I don't know how everyone's hair would react to damage, I was just wondering about the experience of others that have had virgin hair vs. processed hair.

Shiranshoku
July 6th, 2012, 07:58 PM
I'm suffering from insomnia, so excuse my poor wording.

I think the stylist has a point, but I don't agree with the wording. Plus, it depends on how you look at the issue.

I have rather fine, heavy and slippery hair, that is rather unmanageable in virgin state. I have dyed it, and that makes it marginally easier to style. That doesn't mean my hair is too healthy otherwise. It simply means my hair is rather fine, heavy and slippery.

I think learning to handle your hair as it naturally is, is a very important but hard thing to do. Some styles simply don't work for my hair, and I need way more bobby pins than others, etc. But what the stylist says, to me, sounds rather lazy and as if he doesn't know how to deal with different hairtypes.

UltraBella
July 6th, 2012, 08:00 PM
I have a friend like this. Her hair in it's completely virgin state is a limp lifeless mess. Her hair with a Demi color + highlights gives it body and oomph. A good cut can accomplish the same thing for most people too.

Dovetail
July 6th, 2012, 08:03 PM
Eep. He should have called it...texture! Or something.
I never really remember my hair acting differently after dying compared to before. Only that the conditioners provided made my hair soo soft...

RitaCeleste
July 6th, 2012, 08:07 PM
Coloring my hair makes it softer. Natural it feels like wire. I switched to henna and my wiry roots are making me irritable. Stylist have seen it virgin and always recommend some kind of chemical be put on it. Very few like my natural texture me included.

Amber_Maiden
July 6th, 2012, 08:11 PM
Interesting... Yeah, it does make sense.

Diamond.Eyes
July 6th, 2012, 08:35 PM
Sometimes "too" healthy of hair can be a bad thing. This is because when hair is in an extremely healthy state, the cuticle surrounding the cortex ( which is the layer of the hair strand that houses the strength and moisture), can be completely sealed shut. This would block any moisture from entering the hair shaft, and would also make it difficult for the hair to hold any kind of wave or curl. A little porousness in the hair strands is definitely needed.

spidermom
July 6th, 2012, 08:51 PM
I've seen a makeover show where the woman's hair was very limp and straight, and the stylist recommended that she bleach it, then dye it back to her natural color. It had a lot more body after he did that.

Of course, saying "too healthy" depends on what you're trying to achieve. If what you want is hair in the best condition possible, then I don't think there is such a thing as too healthy.

QueenAnne'sLace
July 6th, 2012, 08:56 PM
I agree with the guy on a fact basis, but totally reject the philosophy behind his idea.

Yes. Damaged hair will snag on itself better and hold hairstyles. Coloring hair with harsh chemical dyes often does make hair softer. Coarse hair types will actually soften because hair dye contains a chemical brew that often acts like NAIR, (the hair dissolving lotion some women use to remove leg and underarm hair) and breaks down the hair to allow the color in. The only difference is that you rinse out the dye before it breaks down the hair completely. Drain cleaner (like DRAINO) has the same function. Dissolve hair, clear the drain.

Here's where I have a problem on a philosophical level: What's wrong with the way things are naturally supposed to be? Why do we have to accept damage and potentially hazardous chemicals to fit in with what society considers beautiful or to please ourselves? I think this type of thinking goes along with a view of the outside world which sees natural things as unrefined and lacking in some way; that humans must perfect or make better. The natural form is therefore thought to be deficient. I'd rather view it as having its own merit and purpose.

You could, of course, take it to the extreme and say we should never cut a hair on our bodies anywhere because nature makes it grow. But I'm not talking about extremes. Any philosophy taken to the extreme is hard to have a conversation about.

I don't have any bad feelings toward those who like to use dye or other techniques to get their hair the way they like it. Hey, it's the wonderful thing about being alive! You can choose what you like.

But I just encourage all of the wonderful long-haired people to remind themselves why they do what they do, to truly think about their beliefs, to choose consciously. Then your hair will really be a statement!:cool:

Mesmerise
July 6th, 2012, 09:21 PM
I've seen a makeover show where the woman's hair was very limp and straight, and the stylist recommended that she bleach it, then dye it back to her natural color. It had a lot more body after he did that.

Of course, saying "too healthy" depends on what you're trying to achieve. If what you want is hair in the best condition possible, then I don't think there is such a thing as too healthy.

I'm going to agree with this! It's pretty much what I was thinking ;).

If you want hair that's "too healthy" then that's fine! If you want hair that's a bit more "grippy" perhaps, or voluminous, then it can help to do something chemically damaging to it.

I remember a friend I had some years back who used to perm her hair all the time, and said she had to because her hair was so fine and limp and flat and she couldn't do anything with it unless she permed it, which gave it some body and damaged it enough that it wasn't so limp.

It just depends on what is more important to YOU. Do you want hair that is completely damage free, or do you want hair that perhaps has a bit more body and that you can do more with?

It also depends a LOT on your virgin hair. Not all hair is the same! Still, if I had virgin hair and somebody told me I needed to damage it, I'd put my arms protectively over it and scream "NO! NO!" lol. It has been a loooooong time since I had virgin hair ;).

Audrey Horne
July 6th, 2012, 09:53 PM
No, not in my world it could be "too healthy"! Fine hair tends to be slippery. Yes, it's more difficult to deal with but I get considerably less split ends, natural shine, smooth hair. Why would I need the damage? :confused: I learn to deal with it. It takes time, sometimes it is a struggle but it isn't impossible. I had my hair bleached and coloured with everything possible. Of course, it was different: more coarse, it didn't feel fine in its texture whatsoever. It could hold like a rock. Also less shine even with cone products, eventually more splits. I guess it's all about what you're going for. Last year I had that stage when half of my hair was virgin (before LHC) and the other half with some damage. Heaven and earth!

Lady Neeva
July 6th, 2012, 10:18 PM
The time last year when I tried one too many SMTs resulting in stretchy hair when my hair was already healthy...yes, that would count.

Kaelee
July 6th, 2012, 10:24 PM
I'm one of those people with super slippery, heavy, thick, fine, crazy houdini hair. And I wouldn't trade that health for manageability at all. :D

darklyndsea
July 6th, 2012, 10:40 PM
I prefer to get my damage the natural way...by having hair long enough that daily wear and tear has damaged it! :D

LaceyNg
July 6th, 2012, 10:49 PM
i actually have personal experience with this!

i 1st started dying my hair when i was 13, and prior to that my hair was really slippery, wouldn't hold curl at ALL, etc. after dying it it DID have slightly more volume and held styles better, but it also LOOKED dryer, and now that i look back on it, worse over all. so i guess it just depends on what you want out of your hair.

now i'm not into heat styling at all. i can get heat-free styling that stays for longer that any ever did with heat, so i dont need a coarser hair texture.

Wiggy Stardust
July 6th, 2012, 10:50 PM
My hair has tons more volume when damaged, but I think I prefer the "feel" of healthy hair. Hair can definitively be too healthy to achieve popular styles.

BrightEyes
July 6th, 2012, 10:52 PM
I have a friend like this. Her hair in it's completely virgin state is a limp lifeless mess. Her hair with a Demi color + highlights gives it body and oomph.

My hair is like this too. In its natural state, it is so fine and limp. I get highlights and color mainly because I like how it looks. But I also do it for the texture it gives my hair. I'm fully aware of the damage it does, but I really do like my hair a bit damaged. It just looks and styles better.

tinywife
July 6th, 2012, 11:14 PM
To my great sorrow, my hair is in no danger of being "too" healthy anytime soon.

kidari
July 6th, 2012, 11:19 PM
I've known people who complain about flat, limp, and slippery hair loving highlights to give them more texture, control and volume. I've also known people who complain about frizz and waves and dullness raving that their hair was sleeker, less frizzy, and relaxed after doing a demi-permanent dye. I guess it all depends on what you're after, what you start with, and what you do to it.

maborosi
July 6th, 2012, 11:57 PM
It can definitely be frustrating to style super slippery hair, and more porous hair is better able to soak up color (though in my case my hair drinks up color no matter how good of shape it's in!)

I've had damaged hair that was easy to style and manipulate, but I honestly like my hair in better shape now, even if it is a little slippy sometimes.

~maborosi~

Phalaenopsis
July 7th, 2012, 02:21 AM
It makes me think that maybe there is some truth to what the stylist was saying. That maybe some hairtypes do better to have a little damage?

Has anyone else noticed that their hair acts/looks better after it has recieved a little mistreatment? That damage gave you that extra volume or hold that you needed?

My hair has been honeybleached and it suddenly did have more volume, and held waves better. But I'm not happy with it! It's not as shiny and smooth anymore. I loved the way my hair was in its virgin state. Smooth, slippery and flat. I have straight hair, it's not supposed to have so much volume! And I hate how people always say flat or limp, like it's a bad thing.

I find it quite crazy that people fight their own natural texture so much.
Anyway I will enjoy and love my flat, limp hair, thank you very much ^^

sakuraemily
July 7th, 2012, 02:34 AM
I agree. I think it depends on what you want for your hair. but i think excessive blow-drying to achieve body is better than chemically treating it. As for me I hate my hair when it has not been dried naturally.

Iolanthe13
July 7th, 2012, 05:22 AM
Well, my hair has certainly had more volume since dyeing, and I enjoy that. I am hoping that Sun-In plus henna/cassia will give similar results, though. I wonder how much of that volume is from the layers, anyway...

I think part of it is that the beauty of some healthy hair is subtler than that of damaged hair - damaged hair can be big and teased, or permed, or bleached and dyed bright colours. Using gentler methods often gives softer, more natural results. But when natural looks come back into style, people end up doing even more damaging heat styling and dyeing to get their hair to look the way it probably would naturally if they'd left it alone in the first place. It always amuses me to see tutorials for "natural soft waves" or "stick straight hair" that involve loads of heat styling and products to achieve the look of healthy hair. Of course, if it weren't damaging, I'd be perming my hair into 3a curls every month...

Mesmerise
July 7th, 2012, 05:54 AM
My hair has been honeybleached and it suddenly did have more volume, and held waves better. But I'm not happy with it! It's not as shiny and smooth anymore. I loved the way my hair was in its virgin state. Smooth, slippery and flat. I have straight hair, it's not supposed to have so much volume! And I hate how people always say flat or limp, like it's a bad thing.

I find it quite crazy that people fight their own natural texture so much.
Anyway I will enjoy and love my flat, limp hair, thank you very much ^^

I think hair as thick and lush as yours couldn't be described as "flat and limp" :D. When I picture flat or limp hair, it's totally different ;).

(And that being said I see NOTHING wrong at all with flat hair! If flat hair was so undesirable why would so many people be addicted to straightening their hair?? Limp hair also implies that it sort of has flexibility and flops... and I think flopping is okay in hair!!).

jacqueline101
July 7th, 2012, 06:26 AM
Its interesting I've never heard of it before.

Amanah
July 7th, 2012, 06:30 AM
If your goal is to achieve a certain style, or have more body, a little bit of damage might help.

If your goal is long healthy hair and you mostly keep it up in protective styles, damage may not be the right goal.

bunzfan
July 7th, 2012, 08:35 AM
I would now agree for me especially if i put conditioner on all my hair it is often to soft hard to deal with but, if i just put it on the very ends i have my hairs natural body back i believe because my hair has been treated really gently for 2 years now its actually to soft unless i put some gel in it. Then it feels like hair.

LaFlor
July 7th, 2012, 08:36 AM
I agree that it depends on what you are going for.

Personally I was really dedicated to having virgin hair when I first started LHC. I grew out and cut off all damage I had and I eventually ended up with virgin BSL hair. But I wasn't happy with it. I could live with it, but I wasn't happy and I didn't enjoy it.

My goal at the moment is to be happy with my hair and try to grow it longer... so for me a little damage is okay. My hair doesn't really feel or look unhealthy, most of it isn't damaged, just the strands through the top that were bleached. I have no illusions about trying to reach classic though :D

Milui Elenath
July 7th, 2012, 08:44 AM
I think that the concept 'too healthy' is code for 'natural texture/natural volume doesn't suit the current fashion or isn't able to hold the style/look I'm going for.'

I would think that there were other options for volumising and texturising hair other than damaging it! :shocked:

Milui Elenath
July 7th, 2012, 08:46 AM
My hair has been honeybleached and it suddenly did have more volume, and held waves better. But I'm not happy with it! It's not as shiny and smooth anymore. I loved the way my hair was in its virgin state. Smooth, slippery and flat. I have straight hair, it's not supposed to have so much volume! And I hate how people always say flat or limp, like it's a bad thing.

I find it quite crazy that people fight their own natural texture so much.
Anyway I will enjoy and love my flat, limp hair, thank you very much ^^

and this :agree:

DarkCurls
July 7th, 2012, 08:53 AM
At the risk of sounding offensive, my opinion is a big fat no. :confused: In fact it astounds me that "too healthy" and "hair" can coexist in the same sentence. But I suppose that that's because since I started lurking around here, I've been obsessing over the healthy of my hair. Personally, I would never purposefully chemically damage my hair just to give it more... texture.

I do understand the advantages of it if you have fine, slippery hair or some other kind of texture that is not working for you, but... It just sounds so crazy to me.
But I guess that's because I want to grow long, healthy hair, having been greatly influenced by this forum (so it's your fault).

FrannyG
July 7th, 2012, 08:56 AM
I happily dye my hair, in order to cover the silvers. I know, I know, I "should" embrace my silvers, but after growing out a few inches of it last year, I realized that I hated the colour against my face.

While it's a common saying around here that "nature knows best", that isn't true for everyone.

In any case, back to the topic at hand. My hair is not damaged, but it does have a bit more texture and holds hairstyles better when it's coloured than it ever did in its so-called virgin state.

Having said that, it's not something I'd recommend to anyone else, but I'm quite happy with my dyed hair. And I don't have even one split end.

swearnsue
July 7th, 2012, 09:06 AM
I remember bleaching my hair and the box dye came with some really great coney conditioner and my hair would feel thicker (and blonde). I loved it. BUT my hair was very short and thin. Knowing what I know now, I would rather have healthy hair, grow it longer and when I need some volume I curl it with my Caruso curlers. OR I can braid it when damp and get very fluffy hair that way! If I had to look a certain way because of job-hunting or husband-hunting then I'd have to weigh the pros and cons of having a conventional hair style to fit in. But as it is now I don't have to fit in and I can grow my hair as I wish. But I'm still waiting for it to look good but it's pretty frikn healthy! Just too many weird layers from growing out a shaved head.

LaFlor
July 7th, 2012, 09:33 AM
I happily dye my hair, in order to cover the silvers. I know, I know, I "should" embrace my silvers, but after growing out a few inches of it last year, I realized that I hated the colour against my face.

While it's a common saying around here that "nature knows best", that isn't true for everyone.

In any case, back to the topic at hand. My hair is not damaged, but it does have a bit more texture and holds hairstyles better when it's coloured than it ever did in its so-called virgin state.

Having said that, it's not something I'd recommend to anyone else, but I'm quite happy with my dyed hair. And I don't have even one split end.

I think this is a good point, that doing something "damaging" to hair doesn't always result in damaged hair. I consider my hair really healthy, it looks and feels healthy, it doesn't split, it doesn't break off, it's not dry. It's not virgin, but I don't think that the processing it recieved really damaged it.

The stylist in the show used the term damage, but I've seen lots of healthy non-virgin heads of hair on here.

But being on LHC definitely helps to keep a balance for me. All of the babying and good stuff I do outwieighs the bad.

getoffmyskittle
July 7th, 2012, 09:43 AM
It depends on what you want. If you want hair that has body and your hair is naturally flat and slippery, then yes, a little damage will roughen the cuticles and make it do what you want it to do. If you don't want that, then no. Individual preference. :shrug:

FrannyG
July 7th, 2012, 09:53 AM
At the risk of sounding offensive, my opinion is a big fat no. :confused: In fact it astounds me that "too healthy" and "hair" can coexist in the same sentence. But I suppose that that's because since I started lurking around here, I've been obsessing over the healthy of my hair. Personally, I would never purposefully chemically damage my hair just to give it more... texture.

I do understand the advantages of it if you have fine, slippery hair or some other kind of texture that is not working for you, but... It just sounds so crazy to me.
But I guess that's because I want to grow long, healthy hair, having been greatly influenced by this forum (so it's your fault).

There is nothing offensive about your post. You must remember though, that not all LHCers have the same goals as you do.

Some people are looking for an ultimate goal length of APL, so they might have a different view of things. Myself, I'm not looking to go to hip--well maybe I'll try for tailbone, but only if it still looks good.

I really admire your commitment to your own goal. :blossom:

I think this is a good point, that doing something "damaging" to hair doesn't always result in damaged hair. I consider my hair really healthy, it looks and feels healthy, it doesn't split, it doesn't break off, it's not dry. It's not virgin, but I don't think that the processing it recieved really damaged it.

The stylist in the show used the term damage, but I've seen lots of healthy non-virgin heads of hair on here.

But being on LHC definitely helps to keep a balance for me. All of the babying and good stuff I do outwieighs the bad.

I agree with you. However, technically, my hair is damaged, in that it's not in its natural state. Nevertheless, it doesn't feel or look damaged, and that's because of good care and the fact that I choose my poisons wisely.

Some other people can use heat without a problem; not me, though. Before LHC, I had splits at chin length when I used a blowdryer and a curling iron.

I've grown all that pre-LHC hair out twice over now, as I've improved my hair care. What a difference!

There are several women here with bleached or dyed hair who have beautiful extreme lengths. However, some people simply can't do that.

Conversely, I have seen some women here with virgin extreme lengths, that really don't have hair that looks terribly healthy for the last several inches at all.

I think the important thing is to know what works for us.

Your hair is beautiful, by the way. :crush:

rena
July 7th, 2012, 10:30 AM
Personally, I'd love to have hair that's too healthy :D.

gthlvrmx
July 7th, 2012, 10:33 AM
No, not to me. healthy hair is healthy hair. Let it be healthy! less worries about splits in the end! :)

lapushka
July 7th, 2012, 10:36 AM
This may be a little bit controversial, since henna is so popular here, but my hair, as a F got coarser and dryer with prolonged use of henna. IDK why. Not chemical dyes, those didn't alter my hair in any way, neither did perms. Bleaches were horrible, they also dried, and kind of mushed up my hair with prolonged use. I currently have virgin hair, it's F, it's slippery, but it suits me just fine.

jojo
July 7th, 2012, 10:38 AM
My hair has been honeybleached and it suddenly did have more volume, and held waves better. But I'm not happy with it! It's not as shiny and smooth anymore. I loved the way my hair was in its virgin state. Smooth, slippery and flat. I have straight hair, it's not supposed to have so much volume! And I hate how people always say flat or limp, like it's a bad thing.

I find it quite crazy that people fight their own natural texture so much.
Anyway I will enjoy and love my flat, limp hair, thank you very much ^^

Well you must have a good camera, because it looks very smooth and shiny to me!i see nothing but healthy hair.

RitaCeleste
July 7th, 2012, 11:51 AM
All nice thoughts. I love the way henna looks. I love the way the color is sticking around. I don't love the chemical free dark wiry roots. Seriously, I let my mother-in-law feel it. She confirms that yes it does indeed feel like horse hair. Whatever it is, it ain't a white thang! Seriously, if your natural hair texture is like pubes, and you know you can soften it..... We aren't talking about adding texture here. I gots texture!!! I have and can color the mess out of my hair, its tough, really seriously tough. Honestly, if I could get limp and straight and silky, I'd shut up. (By the time that is achieved its broken to the point it stretches like a rubberband) I am finding out how long this darn stuff will grow. Horses do pretty well achieving nice tale lengths even if its not that much fun to run your fingers threw it. When it was all natural and to my waist, I was hating the texture. It wasn't prettier, softer, silkier, more moisturized none of that. It was wavy bloody horsy hair, that's what it was!!! lol

Zesty
July 7th, 2012, 12:07 PM
IMO no, but that's because I'm invested more in healthy than aesthetically pleasing (in all areas of my life, not just hair). If you want a certain look and don't care so much about the health of your hair, I could see how that logic could work.

Caldonia Sun
July 7th, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have that type of hair: slippery and fairly straight. It doesn't hold curl or any updo for very long. I've pretty much given up on forks and sticks and use accessories that actually work for me. But my hair is very soft and very shiny and that, I like. So I will not do anything to alter it. Because of this texture, it may never be very long, but that's ok, too.

missmelaniem
July 7th, 2012, 12:37 PM
I agree with him. It's one of the reasons I like coloring my hair. It roughs up the cuticle a bit and makes my hair less slick and flat. There's nothing worse for me personally than to have slick flat straight hair. I love my hair straight, but it has to have volume

Kyla
July 7th, 2012, 12:44 PM
I never really take what is said on makeover shows to heart, especially when it's considering hair. :p However, there does seem the distinct possibility that if the hair is in very healthy, virgin condition, it would be much smoother and harder to style, depending on your hair type. I recall some people mentioning on this forum earlier abut how they actually prefer their hair a little damaged, as they can easily manipulate it into certain styles and they feel it looks better. Of course, it all really depends on what the individual thinks looks good as well, in certain circles the look of dry or damaged hair is ideal.

SongofLove
July 7th, 2012, 12:56 PM
I prefer to get my damage the natural way...by having hair long enough that daily wear and tear has damaged it! :D

^ This! My hair is super slippery...But damage happens naturally, so why rush it? :cool:

Milui Elenath
July 8th, 2012, 12:52 AM
Am I the only one who believes there are other ways of texturising or volumising hair without damaging it?!?

nowheregirl
July 8th, 2012, 01:31 AM
Every time I get a blow dry i notice after the next wash i have more waves in my air-dried hair than before ...eventually it returns to its natural state though.

christine1989
July 8th, 2012, 02:40 AM
There is certainly some validity in saying that slippery, healthy hair can be tough to manage in its natural state. Although a bit of damage can get it to be more manageable, I can't help but think these are hundreds of products on the market that could produce the same effect without damage.

My hair has always been full of volume and texture even when perfectly healthy however back when it had some chemical damage in it I remember it being able to hold styles better. It has almost no damage now and will not hold curl for more than an hour no matter how hard I try.

Olga-Freya
July 8th, 2012, 02:42 AM
Sometimes I think about this "too healthy hair" thing, when I just can't make me stop to pet the tassel of my braid, because it is so pleasant to the touch :lol:
But seriously, I really can't imagine that totally healthy hair can looks worse than a little bit damaged ones.

palaeoqueen
July 8th, 2012, 03:10 AM
I've had a number of stylists tell me this before, generally during a consultation when I've been trying to decide whether or not to continue with bleach highlights :rolleyes: I wish I hadn't listened to them, my hair has been a damaged mess for a long time. I don't know how manageable my natural texture will be but I'm looking forward to finding out :D

kitcatsmeow
July 8th, 2012, 05:13 AM
I would think spraying a little salt water solution in healthy hair would add the same effect as dye yet not cause permanent damage. I can understand the theory but it's not justified IMO.

UpNorth
July 8th, 2012, 05:24 AM
There are ways to add body in "too" healthy hair temporary, but no ways to give the super smooth healthy feeling to permanently damaged hair, without using methods that gives you more damage. I would never bleach my hair just to dye it over with my natural color again. See no point, only reason I've dyed my hair is because of the color.

Vanilla
July 8th, 2012, 05:34 AM
Am I the only one who believes there are other ways of texturising or volumising hair without damaging it?!?

I agree with you. Texturizing my hair is achieved by using night blooming panacea on my ends after a wash, instead of mineral oil. Then, my hair isn't so slippy and will actually stay in styles.

Volumizing my hair without damage requires a high loose cinnabun on the top of my head, with no leave in in my hair at all.

Mesmerise
July 8th, 2012, 07:07 AM
I have that type of hair: slippery and fairly straight. It doesn't hold curl or any updo for very long. I've pretty much given up on forks and sticks and use accessories that actually work for me. But my hair is very soft and very shiny and that, I like. So I will not do anything to alter it. Because of this texture, it may never be very long, but that's ok, too.

I can only use hair sticks or whatever when my hair is wet or at the very least, quite damp. There is no way I could get a stick to stay in my hair if I try to style it while it's dry, because it will just slip straight out! Same with trying those styles that involve knotting the hair. My hair just slips straight out with no grip at all!

Have you tried using forks/sticks in damp hair?

Anyway, I concur that soft/shiny hair is desirable, and I like the fact that I have naturally shiny hair! It's not that straight, and is still prone to frizz from previous damage, but it's still shiny (it's a frizzy shine... which is weird... but there you have it).

Changling
July 9th, 2012, 10:18 AM
You know, I'm really glad you brought up this point, because my ten year stint in punk life taught me a lot about damaging hair, what with the bleaching and dying and spiking with elmer's glue, and teasing, and hairspraying....yeah. And now I am chin-length, 100% virgin, and it is INDEED much thicker and stronger, but less voluminous.

While I feel I treat my hair very well and it is looking very healthy indeed at this point, I am a huge fan of messy hair, and once my hair is long enough I already planned to sacrifice some health, and risk some damage, to have messy, tangly hair, worn down, looking like I just clawed my way out of a grave or something, because I think it looks KICKASS. It's too short for it atm but ONE DAY I will have it, and thanks to your post I won't even feel bad about it.

Avital88
July 9th, 2012, 10:32 AM
yes i heard this is a common thing to do for asian wome to get more volume in their flat/straight 1a hair

luxepiggy
July 9th, 2012, 10:37 AM
You know, for the past few months I've been experiencing major difficulties achieving satisfactory /stable updos. I originally thought it was due to some sort of regression in my updo capabilities, but now I suspect it's a result of my hair's improved condition over the same period. Alas! A catch-22 (>(oo)<)`

Tisiloves
July 9th, 2012, 10:42 AM
Personally, I don't think so, but even though my hair is slippery and escape artisty as hell, I do hav a few coarser strands, and I have just learned how to make it work with some AVG and a ton of coconut oil. Plus my hatred of detangling is legend.

aspartame gram
July 9th, 2012, 11:09 AM
I would also suggest using a conditioner with protein in it. A lot of us fine hair gals will use that since it does plump strands. Of course, if a person has an intolerance to protein that it really isn't an option. But, there are healthy ways to achieve voluminous, slightly courser strands!

I've also found that not using a comb really helps in maintaining volume. Since I've refrained from using any combs when my hair is wet, it has ceased to lay flat on my head. Just a thought.

elbow chic
July 9th, 2012, 11:21 AM
I would think spraying a little salt water solution in healthy hair would add the same effect as dye yet not cause permanent damage. I can understand the theory but it's not justified IMO.

I was just thinking the same thing. Though salt also causes permanent damage after awhile.

But yeah, I too know people whose natural texture is super-slick, heavy, doesn't hold so much as a barrette w/o slithering out. So I can see how a little "damage" would make that kind of hair significantly easier to style, if that's what a person wanted.

Firefly
July 9th, 2012, 11:35 AM
I guess it depends on what you're ultimately trying to achieve. But for me, no, no such thing as "too healthy".

CurlyCurves
July 9th, 2012, 04:19 PM
My hair is much harder to manage when damaged. I hated it before. Now, chemically virgin and healthy, it is easy and pleasurable for me to manage.

My hair is very silky and I don't have much natural volume. If I don't insert my fingers into my roots and 'fluff' it, it's pretty flat (for a ii 3b, anyway). Here's an example (bad picture, but you get the idea);

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/577412_4307861255155_695729345_n.jpg

Dying my hair gave me more volume, but I'd hate to go back to those dry, damaged days. My hair definitely didn't change for the better. I'd include a pic, but I never air dried my hair then so it doesn't count :(

In regards to hair in general, I never think it can be too healthy. And I wish famous hair stylists would stop spreading filth like this. They should at least say what they're trying to say properly, and not attack the hair's health.

ETA; My hair also does not hold any accesories. Bobby pins etc. just slide right out. Whether my hair is straight or curly. But it's a small annoyance. The permanacy of damage is too much to risk.


I agree with the guy on a fact basis, but totally reject the philosophy behind his idea.

Yes. Damaged hair will snag on itself better and hold hairstyles. Coloring hair with harsh chemical dyes often does make hair softer. Coarse hair types will actually soften because hair dye contains a chemical brew that often acts like NAIR, (the hair dissolving lotion some women use to remove leg and underarm hair) and breaks down the hair to allow the color in. The only difference is that you rinse out the dye before it breaks down the hair completely. Drain cleaner (like DRAINO) has the same function. Dissolve hair, clear the drain.

Here's where I have a problem on a philosophical level: What's wrong with the way things are naturally supposed to be? Why do we have to accept damage and potentially hazardous chemicals to fit in with what society considers beautiful or to please ourselves? I think this type of thinking goes along with a view of the outside world which sees natural things as unrefined and lacking in some way; that humans must perfect or make better. The natural form is therefore thought to be deficient. I'd rather view it as having its own merit and purpose.

You could, of course, take it to the extreme and say we should never cut a hair on our bodies anywhere because nature makes it grow. But I'm not talking about extremes. Any philosophy taken to the extreme is hard to have a conversation about.

I don't have any bad feelings toward those who like to use dye or other techniques to get their hair the way they like it. Hey, it's the wonderful thing about being alive! You can choose what you like.

But I just encourage all of the wonderful long-haired people to remind themselves why they do what they do, to truly think about their beliefs, to choose consciously. Then your hair will really be a statement!:cool:

^what she said.

missdelarocha
July 11th, 2012, 03:10 AM
It depends on whether you like slippery dense feeling hair or more airy styleable hair.
If you want your hair in a messier style it makes sense for it to be a bit more damaged to look stylish.

Marcellaa
July 11th, 2012, 06:53 AM
I find it quite crazy that people fight their own natural texture so much.
Anyway I will enjoy and love my flat, limp hair, thank you very much ^^

I agree! My hair is pretty flat too, and so healthy and thick that it sometimes is hard to make a decent bun or braid. It just slips through my fingers. So I like to try out new hairstyles with damp hair, that way it's easier and stays up better.

But I do prefer my hair the way it is: Healthy, thick and flat. I like flat hair. I do think some people look really good with volume in their hair, but I have a pretty big head :p and flat hair suits me much better!

kjirstiben
July 11th, 2012, 07:20 AM
What a fascinating discussion! Personally, since I've got fine, dry, wurly hair, it damages itself simply by existing... no extra help needed! Any chemical processing quickly puts it over the edge into "very damaged" territory... sigh.

I do wonder (since I've noted hair texture differences this way myself) if trying a different cleansing regime might make a difference with extremely slippery and hard to manage hair... I spent a year doing WO and found my hair was even easier than usual to put into a style and keep it there... of course you have to deal with transition and the whole oily-looking head thing for a bit, but if you're having real trouble keeping hair in line, trying something non-traditional might give you the extra texture you need--without damage. I know that when I do S&C, my own naturally un-slippery hair actually does feel slippery for a couple days...

Vanille_
July 11th, 2012, 07:37 AM
I don't think there is such a thing ... I could be wrong. But I think it's a matter of adapting to whatever state your hair is in. I have flat, medium thickness, silky hair that falls out of hairs sticks and bobby pins. I've been lamenting about this for months. Sure if my hair was more "damaged" it might hold better in some of these styles.

But today I tried those hair screws for the first time. Oh.my.god. Finally, my hair is staying secure.

MsBubbles
July 11th, 2012, 07:42 AM
Hmm. I will bear all of this in mind next time I get the urge to go back to light blonde. :) (or at the least, sit and fry it in the sun)

Emichiee
July 11th, 2012, 07:57 AM
"Too healthy" depends on what someone wants. For a styled look, artificial volume, waves etc., roughened up cuticles or dryer hair (not necessarily damaged) works.
But in terms of growing very long, natural looking hair damage is not your friend. We would not grow very far with much damage ;)

Plus, not everyone likes the stylist look..I don't need ends to curl in or my hair to stick away one inch from my scalp :D.


Sometimes "too" healthy of hair can be a bad thing. This is because when hair is in an extremely healthy state, the cuticle surrounding the cortex ( which is the layer of the hair strand that houses the strength and moisture), can be completely sealed shut. This would block any moisture from entering the hair shaft, and would also make it difficult for the hair to hold any kind of wave or curl. A little porousness in the hair strands is definitely needed.

Moisture can still enter, the molecules are small enough. Just not a whole lot of water like sometimes seen in very bleached hair that soaks up water.

As far as holding curls or waves goes...there is so many more factors. Healthy hair can still hold waves. It also depends on the natural "friction" of the hair (how rough is the hair type naturally), the stiffness (some hair bends more easily, F, M or C types...etc.
I knew this lady with very healthy waist length virgin hair. But her hair looked close to frizzy. Its surface was just so rough, it resulted in that uniquely puffy straight hair. It could hold braid waves all day. :)

blondie9912
July 11th, 2012, 08:33 PM
To my great sorrow, my hair is in no danger of being "too" healthy anytime soon.

Lol! I'm in the same boat as you

earthnut
July 11th, 2012, 08:49 PM
At the risk of sounding offensive, my opinion is a big fat no. :confused: In fact it astounds me that "too healthy" and "hair" can coexist in the same sentence. But I suppose that that's because since I started lurking around here, I've been obsessing over the healthy of my hair. Personally, I would never purposefully chemically damage my hair just to give it more... texture.

I do understand the advantages of it if you have fine, slippery hair or some other kind of texture that is not working for you, but... It just sounds so crazy to me.
But I guess that's because I want to grow long, healthy hair, having been greatly influenced by this forum (so it's your fault).

This. Maybe for straight-hairs health = straight limp hair, but not for curly-hairs! For curlies, the healthier the hair, the better the curl. As a curly, it's quite hard to have healthy hair, it's a constant battle. So I don't think there's any such thing as too healthy.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Straight haired people damage their hair to give it curl and curly haired people damage their hair to make it straight. :crazyq: Part of having natural hair is to accept and glory in what you were born with!

sakuraemily
July 12th, 2012, 08:32 AM
This may be a little bit controversial, since henna is so popular here, but my hair, as a F got coarser and dryer with prolonged use of henna. IDK why. Not chemical dyes, those didn't alter my hair in any way, neither did perms. Bleaches were horrible, they also dried, and kind of mushed up my hair with prolonged use. I currently have virgin hair, it's F, it's slippery, but it suits me just fine.

Thats coz henna is drying. Thats why its best not to use it more than twice a month.

sakuraemily
July 12th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Also damaged hair doesn't look beautifully shiny so healthy hair is a total yes

Tisiloves
July 12th, 2012, 09:34 AM
Thats coz henna is drying. Thats why its best not to use it more than twice a month.

It's not inherently drying, it depends on you, your hair and your hennaing process.