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Covet
July 4th, 2012, 10:40 AM
Hi :) so recently I had some weird dry patches along my hair line that would not go away. I went to a doctor a few months ago and got prescribed Nizoral and was told it was SD. I've been using it all over my scalp but I really don't like doing this because I've been a CO girl since 2009 and I didn't want to use shampoo again... Do you think it would be okay to use Nizoral just along my hairline or all over the scalp? The hairline is where the problem is, it's not all over my scalp... But maybe I need to treat the whole scalp to keep the SD at bay? No clue. Thanks.

lapushka
July 4th, 2012, 10:49 AM
I would just use it. Just do it until your scalp clears up, then you can go back to CO. Do follow the instructions on the Nizoral to a T!

KittyPTY
July 4th, 2012, 10:52 AM
I have used nizoral cream, maybe you could ask doctor if nizoral cream works the same for you?

Covet
July 4th, 2012, 11:15 AM
I have used nizoral cream, maybe you could ask doctor if nizoral cream works the same for you?

I did ask for a cream and expressed that I was reluctant to use shampoo but she said the shampoo would be more effective! Hmm... :( I guess I'll just have to carry on with the shampoo.

heidi w.
July 4th, 2012, 11:46 AM
Hi :) so recently I had some weird dry patches along my hair line that would not go away. I went to a doctor a few months ago and got prescribed Nizoral and was told it was SD. I've been using it all over my scalp but I really don't like doing this because I've been a CO girl since 2009 and I didn't want to use shampoo again... Do you think it would be okay to use Nizoral just along my hairline or all over the scalp? The hairline is where the problem is, it's not all over my scalp... But maybe I need to treat the whole scalp to keep the SD at bay? No clue. Thanks.

I have S.D. and in my case, I have it fairly bad. For a time, I too used prescription strength Nizoral, and when I could no longer afford that and also lost my prescribing doctor, I switched to OTC Nizoral.

CO washing is not for sufferers of S.D. S.D. is a very bad form of dandruff that causes an overproduction of sebum. Anything added to the scalp skin such as conditioner is a known no-no in the case of S.D. sufferers.

You have super curly hair, if I observe correctly, so you might check out Devashon website, which is the website that the author of Curly Girl put together to sell low- to no-shampoo (especially SLS free products) products. Conditioners included. I don't know if you've noticed that an S.D. outbreak is more likely to occur in the wake of putting stuff on the scalp skin.

As a curly headed person, you need low to no sulphates in your product, which in my instance, is a known cause of an S.D. outbreak. I heavily condition merely the length of my hair but don't allow conditioner to touch my scalp skin at all. This has worked for me for a long time, and I've finally found a great shampoo product so that I don't have to ACV rinse, ever. It's now almost as though I have no symptoms most weeks, although recently it's been bloody hot, so I am suffering somewhat from the heat/humidity.

Learn all you can about S.D. I wrote a bit about it in my blog in an attempt to help people who have it. The more you know, the better you'll be able to tweak your routine. I also do not recommend stretching the length between hair washing in the case of S.D. Washing promptly when needed is a key way to manage the condition, although there is no known cure. Remember, as you read about the internet different people's input on the subject, that S.D. comes in degrees of seriousness. I know a few people who don't have it near as bad as I do. I have yet to meet someone who has it as bad as I do.

I hope this post is somewhat helpful to you. Feel free to PM me with any questions. Nizoral should be used all over the scalp, and allowed to stay on the hair for a little bit of time. It is easy to get bacterial infections on the scalp skin, and Nizoral combats this very well. You'll get used to it in time. It's main ingredient is Ketanozoal or something like that....can't specifically recall, which is unlike other dandruff shampoos which rely an awful lot on the use of tar. Nizoral will work to resolve your problem, and over time you can figure out what to do instead. That's how I did it.

heidi w.

heidi w.
July 4th, 2012, 11:59 AM
Things that helped me manage my condition almost so that I don't have outbreaks a whole lot anymore.

1. Get rid of any form of hard water. In my house, I softened all the water. If someone in your house has high blood pressure, this may not be as possible as softened water does have a bit more salt in it than regular water. I notice that if I wash in hard water, I can just about expect an outbreak. Softened water has saved me.

2. If you can't soften the water, install a shower head filter. That often is very helpful til you can afford to better improve your house's water supply.

3. ACV rinse and if you don't like that use a lemon rinse. Both are diluted the same way, 3 Tablespoons of ACV/Lemon to 8 oz cup of water. I used to use ACV but being blonde, noticed it tinged my hair somewhat reddish, so I then switched to using lemon rinses, which I liked far better than ACV rinsing. Smells a whole lot better, but be sure you get none in the eyes.


4. When I was working with Nizoral, I found I had to wash my hair every third to fourth day, at the latest. When I moved from semi-arid climate to Illinois (from California) I encountered a very different weather situation, and it greatly irritated my condition. Especially the heat/humidity of summers. I now despise being land-locked! LOL

5. Wash your detangling comb every time you hair wash. It is possible to have a bacteria cling to hair combs. So wash it in hot, soapy water (such as with your choice of your shampoo) or stick in the top drawer of your dishwasher (I have no dishwasher.) for disinfecting after washing it. You can get your own jar of Barbicide for dunking combs in (I did this for a while), or you can spritz the plastic comb with rubbing alcohol and water, swipe clean, and allow to air dry. That is AFTER you completely wash the comb itself in warm, soapy water. I use a small nail brush to clean the teeth of the comb very well.

6. Similarly, change your pillowcase often as an SD outbreak can create tiny pimples along the hairline. ETA: SD can creep downward on to the face, especially between the eyes, and down the back of the neck. END ETA

7. Nizoral is medicated shampoo, and unless you use it on all your scalp skin, it's pretty much not going to help you if you don't apply it. Don't dilute it, use less, or anything like that. Use what your doctor asked you to do because he can observe the condition of your skin; whereas, you cannot see your scalp skin. In time, this bacterial infection will decline or go away, and once you have the condition itself under some kind of control, only then can you find other solutions for washing your hair. Do not apply Anything to the scalp skin directly: no conditioner, no oils (not even Tea Tree Oil), nadda, zip, null. It is known to aggravate or cause an outbreak of SD which are these tiny bumps that itch terribly, are red, and merely weep mostly clear and sometimes yellowish hued fluid. They look like a pimple, but they're not a pimple.

I hope this helps you. I used to ACV/Lemon Rinse after using Nizoral shampoo, too, to help reset my pH balance on the scalp skin.

heidi w.

heidi w.
July 4th, 2012, 12:02 PM
I did ask for a cream and expressed that I was reluctant to use shampoo but she said the shampoo would be more effective! Hmm... :( I guess I'll just have to carry on with the shampoo.

I suggest you may well have to give up the idea of CO washing the hair closest to your scalp skin, although you can CO wash the length. The doctor is correct: if you don't apply it, it's doing you no good. A cream would be a gunky mess that'll get into your hair.

FYI, I once used Nizoral cream for a bad infection I got on the bottom of my feet in the wake of staying in a hotel. I also then frequently soaked my feet in half vinegar and half water because my feet stank so bad. That was a weird situation that occurred.

Do not apply anything else to your head!!

heidi w.

heidi w.
July 4th, 2012, 12:07 PM
Hi :) so recently I had some weird dry patches along my hair line that would not go away. I went to a doctor a few months ago and got prescribed Nizoral and was told it was SD. I've been using it all over my scalp but I really don't like doing this because I've been a CO girl since 2009 and I didn't want to use shampoo again... Do you think it would be okay to use Nizoral just along my hairline or all over the scalp? The hairline is where the problem is, it's not all over my scalp... But maybe I need to treat the whole scalp to keep the SD at bay? No clue. Thanks.

SD can spread. It may not be about your head a whole lot right now, but if you don't use the Nizoral, it will be. You aren't reporting the vicious itching that goes along with SD, so maybe you're not as bad off as I am. The plaques can be very difficult to remove. I used to have to use tweezers to get the plaques off. The plaques scale hardcore around a given hair strand and really cling to the hair. Ick!!

I would not recommend you return to CO washing. I'm sorry to tell you the bad news. Maybe someday you can find an amended way to CO wash, but once a person has SD it usually lasts quite some time. It's a condition that can come on anyone at any point in time, and once installed, there's simply no cure whatsoever. There's only managing the symptoms, and that's it.

heidi w.

Covet
July 5th, 2012, 06:16 AM
Firstly Heidi I just want to thank you for such a fantastic response!

You're right, once I was diagnosed with SD I realised that it might have signalled the end of my CO washing days for quite some time and I did think that perhaps the fact that I hadn't shampooed for so long had contributed to me getting SD. However, I did have my doubts because I only noticed the flaky patches of skin in January of this year, when I had been CO for about 2 and a half years at that point and hadn't altered my routine at all. It seemed weird to blame it on CO because I hadn't had any problems up until that point and I blamed it on the cold weather and thought it would go away. It didn't and it got so irritating so I went to the doctor and she told me what it was but didn't really go into detail about it, so you're right, some research into it would definitely benefit me. Could I have a link to your blog post please? :)

I do actually have a SLS free shampoo that I love but I used it very rarely, do you think that I should definitely be shampooing once the SD dies down? I was thinking of using shampoo bars too, have you had any experience with them? I've been using Nizoral as directed for almost a month now and the patches along my hairline have disappeared so I'm pretty happy but I will continue to use it until I have finished this bottle and the other one that I bought. Then I will re-evaluate the situation. I remember reading somewhere that it's a life long condition and I know my mum had it when she was a teen but her's went away. What does an ACV rinse actually do? I've heard about it everywhere but didn't think to do one because it sounds like it would be harsh on the hair. What shampoo do you use instead of Nizoral?

How did you soften the water in your house? I know before I moved I lived in a hard water area for sure, not so sure about the water where I live now. What does an ACV rinse do for SD and hair in general?

I totally agree that a cream would be a gunky mess, I used to put moisturiser on the flakes because I thought they were just patches of dry skin and it became a nightmare to get the gooey flakes out of my hair! You're right, I don't get any itching at all but perhaps that's because I only have a mild case.

Thank you so much Heidi!

XcaliburGirl
July 5th, 2012, 06:46 AM
I don't have SD, but I use Nizoral to control my dandruff. After getting rid of a particularly bad flare up, I usually use it only about once every 3 weeks. In the mean time I use sulfate-free shampoo because that is what works for me, but maybe you can CO until the SD symptoms flare up and then do a shampoo with Nizoral as needed. I also consider the Nizoral a clarify since it's stronger than my usual shampoo.

heidi w.
July 5th, 2012, 02:38 PM
I don't have SD, but I use Nizoral to control my dandruff. After getting rid of a particularly bad flare up, I usually use it only about once every 3 weeks. In the mean time I use sulfate-free shampoo because that is what works for me, but maybe you can CO until the SD symptoms flare up and then do a shampoo with Nizoral as needed. I also consider the Nizoral a clarify since it's stronger than my usual shampoo.

Uhhh, not to be disrespectful in any way, but it is wholly incorrect to consider Nizoral a "clarifying" shampoo. For one, that doesn't even meet the definition of clarifying. In case you don't know what clarify means, allow me to continue.

To clarify means literally to strip the hair of all product, moisture (whether conditioner or oil) anything that one places on the scalp, remove mineral buildup from hard water. That means that then hair is left bare naked. Nizoral is an anti-bacterial shampoo, and I believe if I recall correctly has Sulfates in it, for one. Nizoral is somewhat new to the market but it has brought much relief to sufferers of various maladies. My sister's son was once diagnosed it for a scalp skin condition he had. Being that Nizoral is a shampoo, it is not a clarifying agent. It doesn't strip the hair of much at all.

For a shampoo to be clarifying, the label very often claims it's a clarifying shampoo up front and center on the label itself. OR one can use a homemade recipe from Baking Soda combined with equal parts of one's shampoo choice, stir well to remove Baking Soda clumps, and have a couple of bubbles bubble up and burst. The mixture should be fairly creamy. I do not EVER recommend using Baking Soda as one's choice of shampoo, as yes, it is somewhat harsh on the hair. If one does not condition after clarifying, the hair feels kind of weird, as though it's somewhat brittle, perhaps a bit frizzy, and tangles far more easily. One must replace what has been removed to have well-conditioned hair. So, always advocate conditioning after clarifying, perhaps allowing the conditioner to remain on the hair for a bit of time, up to 1 hour maximum, or as few as 5-10 minutes, and then rinse the conditioner out.

Those with any sort of scalp malady probably should be highly wary of applying anything to scalp skin, even conditioner. My experience with SD proves that it's a big problem for me if I apply anything to my scalp skin. If conditioner even touches an edge of my scalp skin, the following week I can count on an outburst site of the SD. So exercise caution if you have a scalp skin malady. However, one can always condition the length and rinse well. For those with scalp skin issues, good rinsing is a key management tool for their issue, and this has certainly proved true in my SD case.

Conditioner was not originally designed to be applied to scalp skin; however, a lot of people do so, and it is my opinion that applying this to scalp skin can somewhat upset the Acid Mantle, and possibly also the pH of the scalp skin. It is known that conditioners and shampoos in a given product line often are pH balanced, but this isn't always the most optimum situation for those with a scalp skin condition.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.

heidi w.

XcaliburGirl
July 5th, 2012, 03:12 PM
Uhhh, not to be disrespectful in any way, but it is wholly incorrect to consider Nizoral a "clarifying" shampoo. For one, that doesn't even meet the definition of clarifying. In case you don't know what clarify means, allow me to continue.

To clarify means literally to strip the hair of all product, moisture (whether conditioner or oil) anything that one places on the scalp, remove mineral buildup from hard water. That means that then hair is left bare naked. Nizoral is an anti-bacterial shampoo, and I believe if I recall correctly has Sulfates in it, for one. Nizoral is somewhat new to the market but it has brought much relief to sufferers of various maladies. My sister's son was once diagnosed it for a scalp skin condition he had. Being that Nizoral is a shampoo, it is not a clarifying agent. It doesn't strip the hair of much at all.

For a shampoo to be clarifying, the label very often claims it's a clarifying shampoo up front and center on the label itself. OR one can use a homemade recipe from Baking Soda combined with equal parts of one's shampoo choice, stir well to remove Baking Soda clumps, and have a couple of bubbles bubble up and burst. The mixture should be fairly creamy. I do not EVER recommend using Baking Soda as one's choice of shampoo, as yes, it is somewhat harsh on the hair. If one does not condition after clarifying, the hair feels kind of weird, as though it's somewhat brittle, perhaps a bit frizzy, and tangles far more easily. One must replace what has been removed to have well-conditioned hair. So, always advocate conditioning after clarifying, perhaps allowing the conditioner to remain on the hair for a bit of time, up to 1 hour maximum, or as few as 5-10 minutes, and then rinse the conditioner out.

Those with any sort of scalp malady probably should be highly wary of applying anything to scalp skin, even conditioner. My experience with SD proves that it's a big problem for me if I apply anything to my scalp skin. If conditioner even touches an edge of my scalp skin, the following week I can count on an outburst site of the SD. So exercise caution if you have a scalp skin malady. However, one can always condition the length and rinse well. For those with scalp skin issues, good rinsing is a key management tool for their issue, and this has certainly proved true in my SD case.

Conditioner was not originally designed to be applied to scalp skin; however, a lot of people do so, and it is my opinion that applying this to scalp skin can somewhat upset the Acid Mantle, and possibly also the pH of the scalp skin. It is known that conditioners and shampoos in a given product line often are pH balanced, but this isn't always the most optimum situation for those with a scalp skin condition.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.

heidi w.
Thanks Heidi, that is helpful. I think I misspoke (typed, whatever). I think what I meant to say was that the Nizoral does seem to get rid of (or at least help get rid of) whatever builds up on my scalp. It feels like it strips my hair more than my regular non-sulfate shampoo. I don't have hard water and I don't usually have much on my hair that specifically requires clarifying but the Nizoral (which does have sulfates) does seem to do enough to give my hair and scalp a more thorough cleansing once in a while. I didn't really mean it was a clarifying shampoo (though now that I reread what I wrote, it does kind of sound like that).

I'm confused by what you mean by " Being that Nizoral is a shampoo, it is not a clarifying agent." It sounds like you are saying it's not for clarifying because it's a shampoo, but aren't clarifying shampoos also shampoos? I suppose it lacks some necessary ingredient to qualify as a clarifying shampoo. I do have a shampoo (Suave) specifically labelled "clarifying" and it doesn't seem to remove any more build-up than the Nizoral, but that's just based on my perception of my own hair.

To the OP, sorry for the sidetrack. I don't want to be giving incorrect information. I'm just noting my experience with Nizoral and "clarifying" was probably an ill-chosen word.

heidi w.
July 5th, 2012, 03:57 PM
Firstly Heidi I just want to thank you for such a fantastic response!

You're right, once I was diagnosed with SD I realised that it might have signalled the end of my CO washing days for quite some time and I did think that perhaps the fact that I hadn't shampooed for so long had contributed to me getting SD. However, I did have my doubts because I only noticed the flaky patches of skin in January of this year, when I had been CO for about 2 and a half years at that point and hadn't altered my routine at all. It seemed weird to blame it on CO because I hadn't had any problems up until that point and I blamed it on the cold weather and thought it would go away. It didn't and it got so irritating so I went to the doctor and she told me what it was but didn't really go into detail about it, so you're right, some research into it would definitely benefit me. Could I have a link to your blog post please? :)

I do actually have a SLS free shampoo that I love but I used it very rarely, do you think that I should definitely be shampooing once the SD dies down? I was thinking of using shampoo bars too, have you had any experience with them? I've been using Nizoral as directed for almost a month now and the patches along my hairline have disappeared so I'm pretty happy but I will continue to use it until I have finished this bottle and the other one that I bought. Then I will re-evaluate the situation. I remember reading somewhere that it's a life long condition and I know my mum had it when she was a teen but her's went away. What does an ACV rinse actually do? I've heard about it everywhere but didn't think to do one because it sounds like it would be harsh on the hair. What shampoo do you use instead of Nizoral?

How did you soften the water in your house? I know before I moved I lived in a hard water area for sure, not so sure about the water where I live now. What does an ACV rinse do for SD and hair in general?

I totally agree that a cream would be a gunky mess, I used to put moisturiser on the flakes because I thought they were just patches of dry skin and it became a nightmare to get the gooey flakes out of my hair! You're right, I don't get any itching at all but perhaps that's because I only have a mild case.

Thank you so much Heidi!

Covet, I am most happy to help. I had to do all my own discovery regarding SD, and I am most happy to try and shorten the research project. There is not very good nor very much SD information that is reliable and well-sourced online. It's better now than in the past, but be wary of personal testimonials. Lots of these testimonies say they cured their condition, and although I don't want to discount their statements, it is my experience and the result of my researh showed that SD is not curable. I've been suffering from SD longer than I've been caring for it. I'd say that's been a total of 20 years, maybe a bit more. My hairdresser noticed the red bumps on my scalp and told me to see a doctor, but it took me about ten years to go to a doctor. I was miserable before I actually went.

First things first, I don't know if this will work, but this is a link to my blog post on Seborrheic Dermatitus. I had to do my entire chat in two blogs, subsequent to each other and categorized under HAIR, which I set up in my blog. You can also become a friend and look at my hair album, which is its own testimonial that one can have long hair and also have a scalp skin condition. It's not impossible. LOL

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=101521

If you'd like, you can send along a friendship request, and I accept everyone as a friend. So far, no one's been declined that I know of.

Being curly, your shampoo choice is going to matter. Because sulfate infused shampoos, which is extremely common, is bad for curlies and contributes to frizz apparently. So whatever you choose as a shampoo, experiment with sulfate-free shampoos too, and see what serves your hair best.

I softened my house's water by installing a water softener tank. I was given a unit by a friend who thought he might soften his well water, but liked his well water so much that he decided against it, so he gave me his unit as a housewarming gift. I water softening unit can be purchased from a home hardware store, such as Menards, Lowe's, Home Depot, and a few other spots such as Blain's Farm and Fleet, and I think even Walmart may carry them (likely a super center will....). I recommend if you want to go this route, you have your own house. This is not often done in apartment dwellings to soften the water. Management of apartment units typically don't want the expense. If you dwell in an apartment or other kind of rental, likely you'll have to go after hard water a bit differently than a water softening unit. About the lowest, average cost for a water softening unit itself is something around $400, then to install it, might be around $200 for the labor. Your labor guy will have to sweat some copper or somehow work on the metal pipes he has to attach the unit to. So all told, I'd say the lowest average cost for a whole house unit water softener (which serves 4 residents) is approximately around $600 total. (My installer let me sweat the copper under his supervision. That was kind of fun!)

Then for maintenance, you have to install salt pellets of some sort, and your installer of the unit might give you your first supply, especially if you buy the unit from him/her. Otherwise you have to go out and get your own bags. I buy my salt pellets from local gasoline stations, but they sell the bags at something around $7/bag in stores. Most bags come in 40 lb sizes, some in 20 lb sizes. If it's 40 lbs you buy, you likely have to have help carrying these bags, although I've done it, and it completely burns me out to carry 2, 40 lb bags of salt. This is different salt than the salt that might be used to de-ice your sidewalk or driveway or porch. Each time you fill up the unit, you should have to reset the amount that's in the unit. The softener installer person should set up the unit for you and show you what to do. Softening units also self-clean and you will have to have it drain to a sink or some kind of drain in the floor. Be sure this is reliably placed as I have had cleanout fall in the basement one time from a bad leak that got even worst. I typically fill with salt around 3 times a year, so it's not overly expensive really.

If your skin is dry and itchy, you likely have hard water. If the water softener unit is too slick, it'll feel kind of slippery. This means the balance is off on the water softener, and you need to call your installer back and have them come back and fix this setting.

It is recommended to have the unit looked at once a year or so much like a furnace is looked at once a year in a house to have it cleaned and so on. I have not done so, and mine is still working just fine. I do wish they'd do better on designing what they want you to read because it's super small, and as high of a beam flashlight I use and as close as I get to read the dials, I still can't see what I'm doing. Thankfully I don't have to do too much. LOL.

If you rent, you can easily install a shower water trim piece that filters the water. This isn't as great as softening the water, but it works adequately. Anything is an improvement over hard water. These can be purchased at a home supply store and easily installed with a simple wrench and that's about it. Even unskilled me can do it. I just need a ladder. But I've lived with this when that was the only option.

I have experienced a lot of pluses from softening the house water. No spots on my dishes. Clothes last longer than when washed in hard water. The only con is that I have to switch the water back to hard water whenever I occasionally bother to water any plant life in or outside of my house. And tap water tastes better than hard water (our city's water supply tastes abominably to me, and I plan to ASAP install a water filter, but yesterday saw how a friend uses Brita filters, and I wonder if these filtering mechanisms handle removal of the salt in softened water? I'll figure that out someday. I was also given a unit for filtering the water, but I need to hire an electrician to install it and right now I just don't have the funds, so bottled water it is for me, much as I hate using all that plastic. I at least recycle it.)

CONTINUED NEXT POST
heidi w.

heidi w.
July 5th, 2012, 03:58 PM
CONTINUED FROM ABOVE....


I do also have installed a shower head filter on my shower water....so I guess that can work a bit too. IF you go this route, be sure to buy extra filters, and to install these filters when the box indicates you should change the filter. Filters can plug up. (I designed a long hair bathroom, which isn't a whole lot different from regular people's bathrooms, but I have some niceties...that was in days of yore when I was more flush with cash...and had people who were willing to help me fix up my house.)

ACV Rinses. The biggest and primary benefit of an ACV rinse (or lemon rinse) specifically is a re-setting of the pH of the scalp skin. Not sure what it does for hair, itself. I always ACV'd after conditioning, but most people prefer to ACV after shampooing and before conditioning. In my situation of SD, I decided to ACV Rinse at the end of hair washing to reliably reset the pH balance on my Acid Mantle. Read up on the acid mantle and you'll find out it has a preferred pH balance number, something around 6.8 (don't know the units pH is measured in, and that's my stupidity for not knowing...) 6.8 is considered neutral or close to neutral on a pH scale, because it's the approximate midpoint between acidity (or base as some scales for measuring pH call it) and alkalinity. Most shampoos and conditioner's leave the scalp skin too alkaline, so we apply some kind of acidic rinse to tweak the pH towards the acid end of the spectrum, and hopefully we end up at neutral zonage. ACV rinses, or any vinegar or lemon rinse can remove products that remains unrinsed out of the hair from that immediate hair wash. But once product has dried on the hair, to remove it requires clarifying. Some declare these type of rinses to soften their hair, and indeed, one can use ACV in one's laundry to improve foul smelling aromatic laundry. To whiten the laundry more, one can use Baking Soda to boost the whitening power. I, however, digress. One should be aware that ACV rinses repetitively used over a long period of time, can absolutely tinge the hair a reddish hue. Blondes, and lighter hair colors, for this reason are not advised to use ACV. They instead are recommended to use regular white distilled vinegar, although dilute the Vinegar the same as one does with ACV. Alternatively, I found eventually that I liked lemon rinses a whole lot more than vinegar. No lingering aroma except the smell of fresh lemon. (I bought a bottle of lemon juice, and made up my concoction of rinse prior to getting into the shower to wash my hair. 3 Tablespoons of vinegar, distilled white or apple cider, to an 8 oz glass of water. Quite well diluted.)

I have now found an excellent shampoo that works so well that I almost never have an outbreak and can wholly manage the massive itchies that SD sufferers are prone to. I am not allowed by LHC regulations to mention this vendor. So if anyone wants to know my shampoo choice, they will have to privately email me. I can't even PM the information. This vendor also has an excellent conditioner that I have found helpful to my SD although I now rarely use it, but it does also act as wonderful detangler so I can somewhat detangle my hair while it's still damp, which helps a lot. It also smells heavenly.

As an addition here's a bit more that I experienced when I used Nizoral. I always thought within myself that Nizoral somewhat smelled badly, but I mostly received compliments on how nicely my hair smelled, which surprised me. So that's a plus. One should apply the Nizoral shampoo, and allow it to remain for around 3 minutes on the scalp skin so it can do its work before rinsing it off the hair. In that era, I did cool rinses, which I also no longer do. I've become completely a hair bum!! I do the bare minimum! I have found help with managing my symptoms via scalp washes, which is a shortcut version of washing the hair. I used this a lot when I worked because I often had to wash my hair mid-week, but couldn't wear my wet hair down, so scalp washing worked well as a mid-week solution til the weekend when I had the time to wash/air dry my hair on the weekend.

I think I answered all your questions so far, so let me go back up and make sure I covered everything. Hang on .... oh, another thought just hit me: SD is known as cradle cap in young children and babies. Just FYI. That's an alternative search term on the internet. I just found out that it's also known, apparently, as Seborrheic Exzema from the below site that I am linking which is the NIH, I think National Institute (not sure what the 'I' stands for, but it's a government health agency...that much I do know). So it's a fairly good website, reliable info...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001959/

Kind regards,
heidi w.

heidi w.
July 5th, 2012, 04:13 PM
To bore you to death, I must exaggerate the idea that one with a scalp skin condition is well-advised to wash their detangling hair comb each time one washes their hair. I have found that I can absolutely re-infect myself with a new outbreak from an unclean comb.

I strongly caution you to NOT use other people's detangling tools, nor share decorative objects. Don't allow others to use your comb or decorative objects, either. No sharing. Even with your own kids. This is a known hygiene no-no, and so many people ignore this, most especially high school aged kids. And you can end up in a world of trouble from one instance of sharing. Lice can be shared this way. SD is to the best of my knowledge not overly catching, but I think it may be possible. Just best to be safe. I have in the past also brought my own pillow or pillowcase when I've traveled.

Allow me to reiterate how I clean my comb.

I use warm to hot water, and I use my shampoo. Every so often I first take a toothpick and go between the teeth to lift off or loosen the debris that is on the comb from combing my hair. When I do this, people are often very surprised what I pick up. I clean my comb of hair after every detangling session, and I throw this hair away in the garbage, even looking on the floor beneath me for a fuzzball of shed hair and picking that up too. Don't want that wound round someone's vaccuum cleaner and then them having to dig in the roller bars to get their vaccuum cleaner to roll again. Been there; done that. Don't want to pass it on. That's not a nice present to leave behind. Anyhoo, I digress. I use a nail brush to scrub the teeth of a comb, under warm water and with a tiny bit of shampoo. I used to use Nizoral shampoo to scrub my comb with as the last action taken after washing my hair entirely. I even wash my comb if I merely scalp wash my hair (the shortcut to washing hair). I get it very soapy, then I rinse it under warm water. I used to have a jar of Barbicide and after a fresh cleaning, I dip the comb for a bit of time in the Barbicide. Then I'd take it out, rinse it under water, swipe dry and allow to air dry in the sun on a windowsill. I now, to disinfect, occasionally spritz some rubbing alcohol on the comb, swipe dry with a white towel, and allow to air dry. Sounds silly, but I believe this practice has contributed to me keeping my symptoms under control.

I also, additionally, wash my satin pillowcase approximately once a week so that SD can't spread down my face and give me acne nor do I sleep in a pool of bacterial outpourings. I use one side of the pillowcase perhaps for 2 nights; flip the pillow, and use for 2 more nights, and that gets me to washing the sheets day.

The hotter it is, the more vigilant I am (I've gone up and down regarding my vigilence, truth be told, but I've learned) about washing my hair about every third or fourth day before an outbreak has a chance to set in. I've gone up and down on the itchiness factor over time. The more humid it is, as we are in presently in Illinois (it's hotter than a whore's bedspread! OMG, I'm in a sweat pool all day long, pretty much, and that's the indoor weather....) the more frequently or vigilent I need to be regarding washing my hair. Again, scalp washes help a lot during trying times that we are currently experiencing. Today it registered as high 104 degrees Fahrenheit. Phew! I stink!! Glad no one has to smell me. I'm cracking myself up.

Anyway, this should be a decent starter kit for you, Cove.

heidi w.

heidi w.
July 5th, 2012, 04:42 PM
Just as I log out, I recall a detail that is important, at least in my case. ARGH! (Do-over! that is re-log in...) It's very important to try to avoid itching the scalp skin with your fingers. I don't care how clean you think your hands are, but your fingers carry oils on them, and often under the fingernails can be a wealth of grime. So, if you need to itch, I suggest using a scritching comb. This is an extremely fine-toothed comb, and one proceeds in rows from the front hairline to the back of the head, and down the back of the head at an angle (usually a separate action, not one fell swoop of scritching to the crown of the head and then down the back). Scritching should not create tangled hair. One moves the comb in a tight forward/backward motion, in rows that slightly overlap all over the head. Hold the comb at a 45 degree angle to the head or lesser if that hurts less. One should not hurt their head. I also scritch, commonly, prior to a given hair wash as the plaques can really stick to the head and be hard to remove in a hair wash. I often scritch my whole head prior to scritching. I take it easy on scalp massaging, because in the situation of SD one has an overproduction of sebum, and I don't really need more sebum on my noodle. So take it easy with scratching with hands or fingernails, too.

Right now you may not have severe itching, but it can ramp up. Lately I've been fairly free of outbreaks, but I always can look forward to another outbreak at some point even with all this detail work. It just happens. Some have said cleanse the body of yeast, which I've tried, and it did diddly squat for me. A lot of headache for nadda! Good Heavens!

Have a good rest of the day. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions, or ever have a question. I'm happy to reply but it might take me a day or so to reply as I don't log on LHC every day anymore.

heidi w.

heidi w.
July 6th, 2012, 09:11 AM
Thanks Heidi, that is helpful. I think I misspoke (typed, whatever). I think what I meant to say was that the Nizoral does seem to get rid of (or at least help get rid of) whatever builds up on my scalp. It feels like it strips my hair more than my regular non-sulfate shampoo. I don't have hard water and I don't usually have much on my hair that specifically requires clarifying but the Nizoral (which does have sulfates) does seem to do enough to give my hair and scalp a more thorough cleansing once in a while. I didn't really mean it was a clarifying shampoo (though now that I reread what I wrote, it does kind of sound like that).

I'm confused by what you mean by " Being that Nizoral is a shampoo, it is not a clarifying agent." It sounds like you are saying it's not for clarifying because it's a shampoo, but aren't clarifying shampoos also shampoos? I suppose it lacks some necessary ingredient to qualify as a clarifying shampoo. I do have a shampoo (Suave) specifically labelled "clarifying" and it doesn't seem to remove any more build-up than the Nizoral, but that's just based on my perception of my own hair.

To the OP, sorry for the sidetrack. I don't want to be giving incorrect information. I'm just noting my experience with Nizoral and "clarifying" was probably an ill-chosen word.

Yes, you are correct that there are clarifying shampoos on the market, such as the example you mentioned of Suave. So that was kind of a dumb explanation. My experience in using Nizoral meant that I had to wash even more frequently than I do now with the shampoo I found that does a fine job of managing the symptoms. I found that Nizoral kind of actually built up on my scalp skin, and approximately the day after a hair wash or the third day out, somewhere in there, the top of my head was too oily-ish to allow myself to go outside and be seen that way. Frankly, it was a pain in the ass, and I ACV'd every time I hair washed, and it barely managed my fairly severe condition. So you have an experience wholly different than I do. In fact, I commonly caution Nizoral users that one's hair may end up more oily a bit faster since Nizoral's active ingredient is an anti-bacterial and anti-fungal (which is told to me, I don't rightly know for sure sadly....) but that was my experience. To be fair I should mention that during the era of using Nizoral as my shampoo choice for combatting SD, I also had to wash in hard water. And now I don't. So that may play a role in the outcome of my experience with Nizoral, and again, am not sure, but that was my experience. And for years the itching never stopped. It may have been lessened but it never stopped. And now I barely have an itchy scalp. But maybe that's because I'm between outbreaks or in a resting phase?

I don't clarify with a clarifying shampoo. I clarify with my homemade recipe that was taught to me by my hairdresser, who has since deceased some time back, now. I use Baking Soda as my clarifying agent, but I currently just about never clarify even.

I hope this helps,
heidi w.

prettykitty
July 6th, 2012, 03:50 PM
I had to use it for awhile to calm down my scalp...hated it! It's such a harsh shampoo for me, and it's all blue and nasty. It did help with the evil chunky flakes I had though.
I use oil on my scalp before each wash now, and I haven't had a recurrence of the flakes *touches wood*

heidi w.
July 6th, 2012, 04:24 PM
I had to use it for awhile to calm down my scalp...hated it! It's such a harsh shampoo for me, and it's all blue and nasty. It did help with the evil chunky flakes I had though.
I use oil on my scalp before each wash now, and I haven't had a recurrence of the flakes *touches wood*

Prettykitty, When I used Nizoral both OTC and prescription strength, I never observed a color to the shampoo neither in the palm of my hand nor once applied to my head. I don't know why your Nizoral was blue? hmmm.

I just now looked online and there are some comparisons between Selsun Blue and Nizoral shampoo, but online I can't find any form of a blue Nizoral shampoo, so I'm confused as to what you were using? Are you able to find a picture of the bottle online and post the link here? I'd be very curious....thank you for help.

As already expressed, Nizoral also made my hair more oily-ish, not at all dry. I had the complete opposite of dry hair, in my experience. I'm super curious about your experience.

heidi w.

heidi w.
July 6th, 2012, 04:27 PM
I had to use it for awhile to calm down my scalp...hated it! It's such a harsh shampoo for me, and it's all blue and nasty. It did help with the evil chunky flakes I had though.
I use oil on my scalp before each wash now, and I haven't had a recurrence of the flakes *touches wood*

A person who has SD would be ill advised to apply oil to scalp skin to remedy the problem. It could even trigger a nasty SD outbreak, which according to the OP's description, seems to have yet to occur for her. So far, she's just experienced the flake part, but no itchies, red bumps, no weeping of these red bumps and so on....ICK. I hate SD!!

heidi w.

prettykitty
July 6th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Heidi, I'm in Australia, maybe it's only blue here? It was blue and kind of opalescent/pearly looking. I'll see if i can find the bottle and take a pic for you I'm not certain if what I had was actually SD though, after a lifetime of a healthy, low maintenance scalp it suddenly turned itchy, burned when in contact with water, and had scabby flakes on it :( Ick, just the memory grosses me out a little. It was a stressful time, and i had just moved a long way from home. I've always thought that stress was the problem, or that my body objected to the new and different water or plant life- i am horribly allergic to pollen. The issue lasted about six months, but I've never had a recurrence.

heidi w.
July 6th, 2012, 07:21 PM
PrettyKitty, Glad to hear that period of your life is over. Indeed, stress can incur an SD outbreak. I'm not positive you had SD either, but whatever you had, I'm glad to hear it seems to be the end of it. Some things we're more than glad to be rid of! LOL

heidi w.

lapushka
July 6th, 2012, 07:27 PM
Prettykitty, When I used Nizoral both OTC and prescription strength, I never observed a color to the shampoo neither in the palm of my hand nor once applied to my head. I don't know why your Nizoral was blue? hmmm.

Over here (Belgium), Nizoral is pink, a transparent dark fuchsia pink and it comes in a white, non transparent plastic bottle.

Audrey Horne
July 6th, 2012, 09:21 PM
I've had SD all my life (genes) on and off. IDK about others but CO led me to more suffering at times. The only conditioner that worked for me seemed fairly acidic, it removed my sebum but also dried my length out.
My SD strikes back again now because of the heat along with all my other skin conditions. I do use SLS but not with my every wash because it can be irritating and make SD worse. So I mostly use SLS-free shampoo. If I try to stretch my washes too much I itch and my SD patches get worse. So go with your gut! Just be sure you protect your length well (heavy oiling, conditioner) and go ahead and wash that extra sebum. Be gentle too.

I had that shampoo years ago. Didn't do much for me but everyone's different.

What gave me some relief were these teas: lovage, peppermint, calendula. ACV can do it too, also aloe vera gel can be good for the sores. Look for peppermint, rose, calenula and witch hazel extracts in your products. They can be soothing and calm down your scalp.

Hope it helps a bit.

heidi w.
July 8th, 2012, 09:20 AM
I want to add that one product I do use on my scalp skin that seems to help somewhat does contain some kind of mint, whether it's mint or spearmint, I don't know. But it smells minty, and I believe that the mint is helpful to my SD. I have found, however, that while this product can help my scalp skin somewhat, it does mean that my hair becomes more oily-ish faster between normal hair washes and the timing I do them. Meaning I have to wash my hair, especially the top of my head and scalp skin, far more often than if I just leave this product off of my hair. I've tried both ways, and so far, nothing on my scalp skin is the best way to go, overall. But the mint idea may help some people.

heidi w.