Convince me to buy an expensive brush.

[Runzel]

As I mentioned over in the NW/SO thread, I've basically gone over a year without washing my hair AND without doing the proper scritching, massaging, and preening necessary for the NW/SO method. My hair has been gross, I've felt gross, and not only that but the amount of greasy lint that hardens into snarls makes detangling a nightmare that I can only manage 2-3 times a month at best.

I know, it's awful. Severe health issues make other hair care methods not currently an option for me, and lucky for you all I also don't go out in public so I'm not giving the NW/SO movement a bad name. :rolleyes:

The main problem is that I do not have a good brush to clean my hair with. I've now tried two BBBs and the first was too soft and dense to get through and the second was still not quite stiff enough but did show that the stuff in my hair is certianly causing the problems. So I just use a wide-toothed detangling comb which doesn't help, and I don't have the energy to use just my fingers.

A Mason Pearson BBB with extra stiff bristles has been highly recommended for NW/SO. It looks like the cheapest option will be about $100. The brush contains synthetic rubber, which I tend to react to but there are some exceptions depending on the exact materials used.

In other words, I'm looking at paying $100 for a brush that I might not be able to use after already having purchased other brushes that don't work.

Does anyone have an alternative idea for me, or if not can you please convince me to buy it? :p

[ratgirldjh]

I have this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Kent-Finest-Cherrywood-Bristle-LC4/dp/B0012ZKFAC

And I LOVE it.

The bristles are pretty close together and stiff enough to REALLY get to my scalp but not sharp or pointy.

I had a MP extra and hated it and gave it to my mom. I like to use my brush on oiled hair and you can't do that with brushes that have the rubber pad. I once had a wooden brush with a rubber pad and I used it on oiled hair and the rubber warped!!!

Plus I just like the 'traditional' look of solid wood brushes and the MP Extra bristles were too sharp and pointy for me plus seemed kind of sparse... which made the sharp pointy feeling worse!

I got my Kent LC4 on ebay for GASP $29.00 plus shipping...

You might check there!

[Runzel]

Thanks for the reply and suggestion! Unfortunately a Kent brush was the second one I tried (http://www.kentbrushes.com/shopexd.asp?id=215&catid=16), and aside from the bristles issue I had a reaction to I think the wood finish they used. I bought it a year ago and kept expecting it to gas out enough that it didn't cause me a problem, but recently discovered that no only can I still not have it near me from the chemcial smell, but if I try it anyway then I have a temporary issue with my own hair!

I'm with you in liking the traditional look and feel of just wood and boar bristles. But at this point I'm somewhat desperate to just have clean hair again. :P Kent's handmade brushes might be a possibility especially if they use a different finish and/or ideally I'd try to order one without a finish if possible. Those would be about $230 off the shelf and potentially more if I'm asking for a "customized" one due to not having a finish.

I've also considered having someone sand off the finish for me but I think it'd be tricky to remove it inbetween the bristles and my reaction is severe enough that anything short of complete removal would not work. Plus then I'd ruin the resale value.

Also, the bristles were still a bit too soft for me, though yours is white and I wonder if they're stiffer. when I tried it I had to take a very small section at a time and use a lot of force to get it through, and could not make it reach my scalp (on detangled hair).

[saffy2yrs]

I do not have one yet, but have you tried a tangle teezer? they are cheaper and supposed to be really good at getting knots out.

[ratgirldjh]

This is the firmest one I've found. Which one did you have? It does have a finish but I have not ever actually had the wood touch my head! I haven't had a problem with it - I did have a little problem with the smell of the MP one but the rubber outgassed quickly. I just didn't like how stiff and prickly and far apart the bristles were.

On second though perhaps to really get down into your hair the MP would probably be good. I would definitely get the extra one though the others seemed less stiff to me. I found my MP extra on ebay for $100 a few years back. I did use it for a few months and then found the Kent and liked it sooo much better that I gave my mom my MP and she was thrilled!

I had an unfinished BBB YEARS ago and loved it. I found it at a health food store and it was my favorite for years. It looked almost identical to my Kent but the handle was shaped more like the MP but the bristles were the same kind and length as my Kent LC4.

You might also check WIDU. They also have BBB and wood/BBB. Theirs have the rubber pad though. The WIDU is the one that I warped the rubber pad on by using it on LIGHTLY oiled hair. I would be careful brushing super sebumy or oily hair with a brush with a rubber pad. I know coconut oil warped the rubber and I'm not sure if hair oil or sebum might could do it. This is one reason I wanted a solid wood one.



Thanks for the reply and suggestion! Unfortunately a Kent brush was the second one I tried (http://www.kentbrushes.com/shopexd.asp?id=215&catid=16), and aside from the bristles issue I had a reaction to I think the wood finish they used. I bought it a year ago and kept expecting it to gas out enough that it didn't cause me a problem, but recently discovered that no only can I still not have it near me from the chemcial smell, but if I try it anyway then I have a temporary issue with my own hair!

I'm with you in liking the traditional look and feel of just wood and boar bristles. But at this point I'm somewhat desperate to just have clean hair again. :P Kent's handmade brushes might be a possibility especially if they use a different finish and/or ideally I'd try to order one without a finish if possible. Those would be about $230 off the shelf and potentially more if I'm asking for a "customized" one due to not having a finish.

I've also considered having someone sand off the finish for me but I think it'd be tricky to remove it inbetween the bristles and my reaction is severe enough that anything short of complete removal would not work. Plus then I'd ruin the resale value.

Also, the bristles were still a bit too soft for me, though yours is white and I wonder if they're stiffer. when I tried it I had to take a very small section at a time and use a lot of force to get it through, and could not make it reach my scalp (on detangled hair).

[Madora]

Based on personal experience, I would not recommend you purchase an expensive brush.

A good bbb needn't cost an arm and a leg..but you do have to check to see that it is marked 100% boar bristle on the brush itself, or on the box. There are several companies who sell "boar bristle" brushes..but their brushes are mixed with nylon.

When purchasing a bbb, if at all possible, check it out in person so that you can feel the stiffness (or not) of the bristles and see how ergonomically friendly the handle is (not all brushes feel good when you hold them).

Based on glowing copy about a top of the line Kent of London brush, I bought it via the mail (many years ago). It was close to $80.00 and beautifully crafted...and my hair hated it. The bristles were very long and stiff and brushing was ghastly. I went back to using my Goody bbbs.

If you find that you're still having problems with bbbs after sanding off most of the stain, then perhaps you'll need to try another type of brush...wooden or something plastic. Good luck!

[firegypsy]

I don't think you need a super expensive brush, but I adore my MO extra. LOVE IT. I'm a MP junkie and my hair loves them. It does so well in my hair, distributes oils beautifully, and makes it shine like nothing you can imagine.

So while you don't need to, I did....and I couldn't be happier. I tried a few that were less expensive and there was no contest for me.

[Wildcat Diva]

Tangle Teasers are $10, I think they are great. You might try one and really like it.

This brush works great, has some boar bristles, and is inexpensive. $ 13.
Olivia Garden Healthy Hair Ionic Massage Hair Brush found on amazon.

I also like this brand. Bamboo bristles, but not cheap:

http://www.widu.com/

I hope you find what you need.

[caadam]

I put a thread up some days ago about my BBB find at Walmart. The brush is about five dollars after tax, and it's a great brush.

Just because a BBB is expensive, doesn't mean it's the best of the best. This BBB I got is the BEST I've had so far. It's pure 100% boar bristles, has a soft bristle side and firm bristle side, and it works great for me.

Here it is if you want to consider it: http://grocery.walmart.com/usd-estore/catalog/sectionpagecontainer.jsp?skuId=1002228&referrer=cookiesDetecting

It's just wood and boar bristles. No nylon/plastic.

I agree with Madora, too: if you're going to consider a BBB, try to check it out in person. I stood in the aisle at Walmart and checked every single bristle on this brush and saw no nylon/plastic bristles. I wanted to make sure it was completely pure, and it was. I think it was an awesome find for only five bucks. lol

The Tangle Teezer is also a good brush for tangles. When I was WO, it worked very good on damp hair, and also helped to pull down sebum.

I'm not saying that cheaper brushes are better than expensive ones; I'm just saying that you don't need to pay $100 for a good brush. :) Sometimes you can, and sometimes you end up getting a brush that doesn't even work for you. I say, just consider all options. :flower:

[jeanniet]

I have an MP BBB extra, and it is a fantastic brush. I have to disagree with the others who say a cheaper BBB is just as good, because I've never found a cheaper brush that came close to comparing to an MP, and I've tried quite a few of them. It has good stiff bristles, which is what I want for my thick hair. Other brushes just can't handle it. You can use an MP on lightly oiled hair, especially if you clean them regularly, but I never tried mine on heavily oiled hair. I haven't had any kind of warping problems with any of my MP brushes (I have two mixed brushes as well, and those are also excellent brushes).

A Tangle Teezer, believe it or not, is a pretty close second to an MP. I don't think it would work for what you want because it's not as good at distributing oils, but it makes a pretty good smoothing brush.

[caadam]

To each his own, I say. lol I mean, I've never tried an MP BBB before, but just because I haven't, doesn't mean I can't tell the difference between a bad brush and good one. I don't have the money to invest in a BBB that expensive, and the BBB I have now is very good (causes no static, first BBB to get through all my hair, and does a good job with oil distribution. That's all I ever wanted in a BBB). It works for me, and that's what matters. :)

I think quality is usually found in how a brush works for each individual person. You don't always have to pay close to or even over $100 to get that. I can understand if some people find an MP and it works for them so they stick with it, but another person might find the same satisfaction in a brush that's not an MP. Are both of the brushes still good? Of course. If they work the way both persons want them to work, that's really all that matters.

I can agree, though, that the make of an MP is definitely nicer than a cheaper brush. It'll more than likely last longer than my brush. I don't doubt it. But... really, it does the job, it was a great price, and I'm happy with that. :D Maybe when I get more extra money I'll try out an MP, but for now, it's way out of my reach. lol That's fine, though. ♥

[woolyleprechaun]

Im another one singing the praises of the Kent LC4. If the kent one you tried was too stiff, perhaps you could check out their childrens range? My whole family have Kent grooming brushes, Im totaly smitten....

[Runzel]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I've only skimmed them for now and will read them thoroughly later, but just a few quick notes:

Tangle teaser would not clean my hair, which is what I need. Even completely detangled, my hair is so badly coated in sebum and lint that it is very difficult to run my fingers through it. It is not from snarls, but rather a wonderful sludge of what amounts to "dirty" in hair that makes it all stick together. Every hair care method requires a way to get this stuff out, and most uses a form of washing. Since washing is not a possibility for me, even the "dry" shampoos, I must manually remove this stuff with a brush, which is the NW (No Water) method. No detangling item, despite how good may be at detangling, is going to provide cleaning.

I've gone the cheap route with brushes, even 100% BBB and it has not worked. Buying a bunch of cheap brushes that doesn't work ends up being more expensive than getting one good one. I have a 100% BBB purchased from a nearby store that works great as a body brush but it can't begin to get through to my hair. The Kent one was a little better but still too soft. I'm really eager to hear people's suggestions for finding extra stiff boar bristle brushes, but this notion that I should be able to easily pick up something that works so long as it's BBB is misguided, however well-intentioned.


Which one did you have? It does have a finish but I have not ever actually had the wood touch my head!

I included a link to the one I got as a reply to your first post...I'm forgetting the name at the moment. And no, the wood doesn't touch my head - it was not a contact reaction, it was breathing issues from inhaling the chemicals gassing off from it. My health situation is quite extreme and I do not expect anyone else to experience the same problem.

[Amanah]

I have no experience in SO, but, I think the first thing you need to do is finger comb all the tangles out, and scritch all the stuff out of your scalp. I think the first step would be getting all the gunk out with your fingers. Then maybe use an some sort of absorbant material to clean your scalp/hair with, get the excess oil and gunk out of your hair by patting your scalp and hair down, with cotton strips maybe, or something more absorbant, tisues?.

then just get a nice brush from Amazon, not very expensive, to finish off your hair and get the sebum thru your hair?
http://www.amazon.com/Spornette-Rounder-Bristle-Brush-316/dp/B003LSDQJA/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1340527273&sr=1-1&keywords=boar+bristle+round+brush

[Runzel]

I have no experience in SO, but, I think the first thing you need to do is finger comb all the tangles out, and scritch all the stuff out of your scalp. I think the first step would be getting all the gunk out with your fingers. Then maybe use an some sort of absorbant material to clean your scalp/hair with, get the excess oil and gunk out of your hair by patting your scalp and hair down, with cotton strips maybe, or something more absorbant, tisues?.

then just get a nice brush from Amazon, not very expensive, to finish off your hair and get the sebum thru your hair?
http://www.amazon.com/Spornette-Rounder-Bristle-Brush-316/dp/B003LSDQJA/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1340527273&sr=1-1&keywords=boar+bristle+round+brush

I have used my comb to scritch stuff off my scalp, however I cannot get the gunk out with my fingers. I have tried...it's hours to go through less than half my hair and then I'm completely exhausted and can't touch it again for weeks. By the time I'm able to try again it's built up again. I have managed to rinse out my hair on a very rare occasion which tends to clean it really well. But it does not stay that way, I cannot keep it that way with my fingers (I have tried) and not any of the BBBs I have tried have been stiff enough to manage it.

I'm therefore looking for a brush that can manage it.

[auburntressed]

Eh, well... I would LOVE to get an expensive BBB. I haven't found one yet that I like. A Mason Pearson is kind of my dream, but there is just no way I can spend that amount on a brush. And I especially won't spend that much on a brush I can't hold and feel first.

And that's kind of a problem for me. There just aren't a whole lot of places around here that I can get BBB's from. Walmart and Sally's are about it. There are a couple of Bass brushes at the local health food store also.

At the moment, I've settled on a BBB that I got from Sally's. Not 100% happy with it.

The fact that the Mason Pearson's bristles have so much space between them is what attracts me to it partially, because I feel like the wide spacing would make it easier to get it through my hair.

But no place close to where I live sells Mason Pearson. I am relatively certain that I won't find anything that is British made around here, either. Ah well. Maybe some day?

To the OP: If your hair has really gotten that bad, is there some way you can get a friend or someone to help you clarify just so you can start over? I have the feeling that getting a brand new brush and trying to run it through hair that is in such a bad state may be too much for any brush to live up to. Maybe if you could get your hair clarified, it would be easier to maintain it from that point on once you have found a decent brush.

[Amanah]

possibly SO is to much work for you and as the poster above recommended, maybe you should start over with a good washing . . .

[Runzel]

Eh, well... I would LOVE to get an expensive BBB. I haven't found one yet that I like. A Mason Pearson is kind of my dream, but there is just no way I can spend that amount on a brush. And I especially won't spend that much on a brush I can't hold and feel first.

And that's kind of a problem for me. There just aren't a whole lot of places around here that I can get BBB's from. Walmart and Sally's are about it. There are a couple of Bass brushes at the local health food store also.

At the moment, I've settled on a BBB that I got from Sally's. Not 100% happy with it.

The fact that the Mason Pearson's bristles have so much space between them is what attracts me to it partially, because I feel like the wide spacing would make it easier to get it through my hair.

But no place close to where I live sells Mason Pearson. I am relatively certain that I won't find anything that is British made around here, either. Ah well. Maybe some day?

To the OP: If your hair has really gotten that bad, is there some way you can get a friend or someone to help you clarify just so you can start over? I have the feeling that getting a brand new brush and trying to run it through hair that is in such a bad state may be too much for any brush to live up to. Maybe if you could get your hair clarified, it would be easier to maintain it from that point on once you have found a decent brush.

I do understand where you're coming from. I don't particularly like purchasing things I haven't been able to hold first, either. But then I became housebound so I adapted and learned to work through it. It isn't ideal, but hey, at least it's possible! :D

I know you were writing your post at the same time as my reply, but again to re-iterate, I have managed to clarify my hair rather well through rinsing, so I know that it's the daily maintenence that is an issue rather than just getting "over the hump" so to speak of recent build-up. My hair picks up a lot more lint than the average person's because I'm in bed most of the time. So it's mainly fabric fibers combining with sebum that creates this mess. Physically I do not have the strength to pick through my entire head with my fingers every day. I require a brush for this service.

I had been under the impression from the NW/SO thread that certain brushes are suited for this purpose. With most of the advice here leaning towards "just grab one" now I'm confused.

[Amanah]

hmm, you need an experienced SO person to advise you probably.

[Thinthondiel]

Hmmm, people don't seem to like BBBs with nylon bristles in them. I have only ever had two BBBs, so I don't really have a lot to compare with, but one of them is a Denman with no nylon bristles, and it just won't go through all of my hair. My other BBB is a cheap round one with nylon bristles mixed in, and it works beautifully. It goes through all of my iii hair, and it gets all the way in to the scalp. I used it when I was doing WO, and it did remove quite a lot of sebum.

[pepperminttea]

My hair picks up a lot more lint than the average person's because I'm in bed most of the time. So it's mainly fabric fibers combining with sebum that creates this mess. Physically I do not have the strength to pick through my entire head with my fingers every day.

Would it be worth trying a silk sleep cap to minimise the amount of lint getting in there too? :)

[Runzel]

Okay, I think I understand things a bit better now. I had thought that there were certain brushes particularly good for NW/SO method, but basically what i gather now is that everyone needs to find their own, and even the expensive ones that some have found works for them might not work for the next person.

I don't like buying expensive stuff either, but that felt like the only sure option at the time.

I now have a plan in place with someone else I know to try to feel different brushes from my local stores. Hopefully I can find one there that works for me.

Thanks again for the replies everyone, sorry if I sounded a little irritated earlier. :flower: It's been a frustrating journey, but hopefully a solution is within reach. I truly do appreciate the effort of everyone to help me out, thanks so much!

[jeanniet]

To each his own, I say. lol I mean, I've never tried an MP BBB before, but just because I haven't, doesn't mean I can't tell the difference between a bad brush and good one. I don't have the money to invest in a BBB that expensive, and the BBB I have now is very good (causes no static, first BBB to get through all my hair, and does a good job with oil distribution. That's all I ever wanted in a BBB). It works for me, and that's what matters. :)

I think quality is usually found in how a brush works for each individual person. You don't always have to pay close to or even over $100 to get that. I can understand if some people find an MP and it works for them so they stick with it, but another person might find the same satisfaction in a brush that's not an MP. Are both of the brushes still good? Of course. If they work the way both persons want them to work, that's really all that matters.

I can agree, though, that the make of an MP is definitely nicer than a cheaper brush. It'll more than likely last longer than my brush. I don't doubt it. But... really, it does the job, it was a great price, and I'm happy with that. :D Maybe when I get more extra money I'll try out an MP, but for now, it's way out of my reach. lol That's fine, though. ♥
My reply to the OP was based on what she said she was looking for, which was a pretty specific type of BBB, in which case the MP is what I would recommend since she seems to be willing to spend the money. I'm sure there are cheaper brushes that might work, but I can only suggest what I believe to be the best option for her situation and price range, and that would be the MP. I have never found a less expensive brush that was able to handle my hair, and it sounds like that's what she's looking for, too.

[Runzel]

Would it be worth trying a silk sleep cap to minimise the amount of lint getting in there too? :)

Certainly would be - most silk is problematic for me which is why I haven't tried that yet. I really want to, though, and plan to keep my eye out for it. Thanks for the suggestion. :)


My reply to the OP was based on what she said she was looking for, which was a pretty specific type of BBB, in which case the MP is what I would recommend since she seems to be willing to spend the money. I'm sure there are cheaper brushes that might work, but I can only suggest what I believe to be the best option for her situation and price range, and that would be the MP. I have never found a less expensive brush that was able to handle my hair, and it sounds like that's what she's looking for, too.

I appreciate it. Like everyone else I'd prefer to spend less money, but if my two options are to pay a bunch of money and have clean hair or keep paying smaller amounts on brushes that don't work and have dirty hair then I'd go for the first option.

Not that it matters, but I don't throw money around on my hair. I've gone several years using exactly one cheap hair stick and a knitting needle, which is the entirety of my "hair toys". There was a time in the past I purchased conditioner for about a year, other than that I've been either baking soda/(cheap)vinegar rinse, WO, or NW/SO for the past 5 years. I have a plastic wide-toothed detangling comb that was under $1 with the seam filed down smooth. Other than these things, the Kent brush is the only other item I purchased for my hair because I thought it would work for cleaning my hair. It didn't. And frankly I just really need something that works, no matter how much that's going to cost.

Hopefully I can get away with buying something less expensive that is effective..if I had thought that was a possibility when I started this thread I would have worded my first post differently. I guess I'll keep you all posted!

[Unicorn]

I don't know how helpful this will be, but there's a method I used to use to dry clean my hair, that may help. Brushing the hair using hosiery/nylons.

Once you've found a brush, use tights/stocking to cover the bristles of the brush, pushing the nylons down so the bristles are poking through the nylons.

Brush the hair as normal, every so often lift the nylons, (this cleans any oil/lint from the bristles) and repeat using a fresh clean area of the nylons.

I use oils on my hair so it was a lint magnet, this worked really well between washes, removing any excess oils and any lint with it. It also worked any sebum/oils down the length of my hair, leaving it in excellent condition. I think the nylon at the base of the bristles also helped to shift sebum along the hair shaft.

I just used a large denman brush, this may be a good enough brush for this method, it certainly worked for me.

HTH, good luck, it sounds frustrating for you.

Unicorn

[ratgirldjh]

I included a link to the one I got as a reply to your first post...I'm forgetting the name at the moment. And no, the wood doesn't touch my head - it was not a contact reaction, it was breathing issues from inhaling the chemicals gassing off from it. My health situation is quite extreme and I do not expect anyone else to experience the same problem.

Wow I just noticed the link after I read this post! I had thought you just underlined it I guess - but I was kind of out of it yesterday with allergies.

That wood looks totally different from the one on mine... the one you linked too does look un-finished - mine is kind of shiny and it looks like it has a coat of something on it but hasn't acted that way - at least the shine is staying there and I wash my brush a lot and oil it. Plus the bristles are very tightly packed together on mine. I tried a round BBB on my hair ONCE and it was a total disaster! I'm actually afraid of them now :D

I am very chemical sensitive and didn't notice any out-gassing from my brush. However on my Kent LC4 the bristles smelled weird when I first got it but I just washed it and the smell went away.

Come to think about it these cheaper Kent brushes are not hand sewn which might mean they are put together with glue. I think the more expensive ones are sewn together but some glue might be involved. The glue might have been what you smelled out-gassing and maybe that was what I smelled too - but mine smelled like 'fur'... if that makes sense? kind of like they smell when they get wet - a wet BBB smell... LOL

The MP rubber pad is probably glued on also. If I were you I would try and find one of these brushes locally at least to see if you can smell anything that might bother you. I didn't like the smell of the rubber on the MP but it went away quickly.

Funny I had a WIDU once (the one that warped) and I don't remember it smelling like rubber... hmmm

eta: for extremely dirty hair I'm not sure if you could get even a firm BBB with tightly packed bristles through your hair? i am really confusing myself thinking too much :confused: i just wish i hadn't given my MP to my mom because i would have sold it to you for quite cheap and I am not sure my mom appreciates it :( (but she is getting more into her hair these days so I hope I'm wrong) :)

eta2: Bass makes some pretty good BBB brushes and quite a few of them are un-finished. They are sold at pretty much all health food stores here. I have one of their body brushes and have had the same one for years. The reason I don't have a hair one is unfortunately the one I chose was the one like in your link (almost round) and I immediately got it totally tangled in my hair!!! Since then I have avoided buying any more of them not sure why...

Good luck with your quest :)

[Rufflebutt]

I have a BBB that I got at walmart for $5. And if cleans out TONS of dirt and lint in between washes. You don't need an expensive brush. XD

[Runzel]

I have a BBB that I got at walmart for $5. And if cleans out TONS of dirt and lint in between washes. You don't need an expensive brush. XD

Wish I could pick up a brush that works for me at a nearby store! Unfortunately all the ones I was recently able to get my hands on the bristles were far too soft, much softer than my Kent brush. There's no way they would have worked for my hair - perhaps someone with hair that isn't as thick and who washes but not for me, with thick hair and practicing the NW/SO method which relies on a brush for all "washing".


I don't know how helpful this will be, but there's a method I used to use to dry clean my hair, that may help. Brushing the hair using hosiery/nylons.

Once you've found a brush, use tights/stocking to cover the bristles of the brush, pushing the nylons down so the bristles are poking through the nylons.

Brush the hair as normal, every so often lift the nylons, (this cleans any oil/lint from the bristles) and repeat using a fresh clean area of the nylons.

I use oils on my hair so it was a lint magnet, this worked really well between washes, removing any excess oils and any lint with it. It also worked any sebum/oils down the length of my hair, leaving it in excellent condition. I think the nylon at the base of the bristles also helped to shift sebum along the hair shaft.

I just used a large denman brush, this may be a good enough brush for this method, it certainly worked for me.

HTH, good luck, it sounds frustrating for you.

Unicorn

What a great idea! Unfortunately I can't go near hoisery/nylons but if I could I bet that would work splendidly. Thanks for the tip.


Wow I just noticed the link after I read this post! I had thought you just underlined it I guess - but I was kind of out of it yesterday with allergies.

That wood looks totally different from the one on mine... the one you linked too does look un-finished - mine is kind of shiny and it looks like it has a coat of something on it but hasn't acted that way - at least the shine is staying there and I wash my brush a lot and oil it. Plus the bristles are very tightly packed together on mine. I tried a round BBB on my hair ONCE and it was a total disaster! I'm actually afraid of them now :D

I am very chemical sensitive and didn't notice any out-gassing from my brush. However on my Kent LC4 the bristles smelled weird when I first got it but I just washed it and the smell went away.

Come to think about it these cheaper Kent brushes are not hand sewn which might mean they are put together with glue. I think the more expensive ones are sewn together but some glue might be involved. The glue might have been what you smelled out-gassing and maybe that was what I smelled too - but mine smelled like 'fur'... if that makes sense? kind of like they smell when they get wet - a wet BBB smell... LOL

The MP rubber pad is probably glued on also. If I were you I would try and find one of these brushes locally at least to see if you can smell anything that might bother you. I didn't like the smell of the rubber on the MP but it went away quickly.

Funny I had a WIDU once (the one that warped) and I don't remember it smelling like rubber... hmmm

eta: for extremely dirty hair I'm not sure if you could get even a firm BBB with tightly packed bristles through your hair? i am really confusing myself thinking too much :confused: i just wish i hadn't given my MP to my mom because i would have sold it to you for quite cheap and I am not sure my mom appreciates it :( (but she is getting more into her hair these days so I hope I'm wrong) :)

eta2: Bass makes some pretty good BBB brushes and quite a few of them are un-finished. They are sold at pretty much all health food stores here. I have one of their body brushes and have had the same one for years. The reason I don't have a hair one is unfortunately the one I chose was the one like in your link (almost round) and I immediately got it totally tangled in my hair!!! Since then I have avoided buying any more of them not sure why...

Good luck with your quest :)

Great info, thanks. I contacted Kent asking if they had any BBB with stiffer bristles than the one I purchased, and heard back that the LC4 is indeed stiffer.

At the moment I'm leaning towards trying to sell the Kent brush I have, purchasing an LC4 and then sanding off the finish, ozonating it, and other such things to try to rid the chemical issue. I know the Boar Bristle smell...I have a soft BBB as a body brush and it smells that way sometimes. The smell from my Kent brush is definitely chemical. I was thinking the glue could be a possibility too, but it seems there's be less surface area for it to outgas from.

It doesn't seem to me that my hair is too dirty for a brush to handle. If that turns out to be the case I can at some point manage to do another rinse to start things off with. I just. Need. A. Brush! :p

So I'll look around at LC4 prices and such and see if I can get a deal somewhere cheaper than the Kent site. SInce the bristles on teh other one were almost stiff enough it seems this is a good shot, and with your report that the chemicals on it might be different that's sounding a little more hopeful, and if not if it still works for my hair then I'll ruin it to see if I can make it workable.

Watch out, world, I have a plan! :draw:

[GrowingGlory]

My MP Large Extra is the best investment in my hair that I've ever made. My hair seems thicker, softer and more voluminous since I've been brushing daily. I purchased mine through Tressence and it had no odor. I have MCS and really notice chemical odors. I do wish that it had a wooden back and no rubber pad, but overall I am extremely satisfied with its ability to reach my scalp to clean it and distribute sebum thoroughly, leaving my hair moisturized to the tips.

Once I had a Kent Naturals BBB with a wooden handle and porcupine quills distributed through the boar bristles. It felt great, really worked, and cost less than $30 at Cosmetics Plus. I also had a Fuller Gentler Club brush (white boar bristles in a light wooden handle). It cost under $50 (including shipping) through Fuller Brush. They make a Club brush with black bristles that are firmer and it might work for you.

Have you considered a scritching comb? A bone comb from Longhairs.com (I suggest the "longer than palm" sized) might be just the ticket at less than $30 with shipping.

Good luck in finding your ideal brush. BTW, some people use a natural bristle nail brush or complexion brush on their scalps, then an ordinary BBB on their length. HTH! Hope that you convalesce peacefully.

BTW, I have used every brush that I've tried on hair that was saturated with sebum. I stretched washes and consumed a little oil, then brushed my whole scalp and all of my hair. Then, I sectioned my hair and brushed each section until the tips were saturated. Then I'd wait until the sebum absorbed and brush again, etc. until no more sebum was absorbed and my hair was saturated. I've never noticed any damage to the brushes nevertheless. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[Runzel]

Thanks GG, that was a really helpful post. Based on your recommendation I'm going with trying the Fuller Club brush (not the softer one) next, and hopefully it will do the trick and be the last brush I buy in a long while (or ever? :D). I admit I'm rather fond of the look of the soft oval and white bristles of the LC4, but pretty doesn't necessarily get the job done and my practicality is winning out at the cheaper price ($25, add another item to get free shipping - nice) and more likely to have a tolerable finish just 'cause it's a different brand.

Besides, there's a certain beauty to items that work so well they just get out of your way and let you focus on what's really important.

Thank you for the well wishes! As an off-topic note I've actually been experiencing some health improvement, which is why I'm able to get back to actually trying to manage my hair. It's been lovely to know I could just come on back here and draw on the knowledge of this community.:puppykisses:

[jojo]

I have tried cheaper BBB and then my hubby got me a MP last year there is no competition the MP wins every time.
I have seen a huge difference in my hair both in condition and growth since using mine. I use mine twice a day, every day with my head tipped and I do 50 strokes each day.

I have the extra but my friend has just asked if I'd like to swap for her larger one as she finds it too big, too good an offer to resist! I'd also suggest getting a pure boar bristle not the one with nylon mixed, that can damage your hair.

Getting my MP BBB has been my best ever investment and worth every penny that my husband paid :p and it will last me years longer than any cheaper version would!

I'd say go for it!

[heidi w.]

I hope you are not trying to detangle your hair with a BBB. Using a comb, initially I had a big problem with combs. I simply could not get through my hair. Plus I had been used to brushing my entire life.

I can't recommend you spend $100 on a BBB or any brush or comb. That is completely unnecessary. There are plenty of adequate brushes and combs for far cheaper.

As it concerns combs, I had to realize that I simply needed wider placement of the teeth than an average wide-toothed comb, and that I needed to work in smaller sections when I detangle.

A BBB, you can buy these at pet stores, in grocery stores and in drugstores and hair supply stores. The hardest bristles are possibly not the best, but I've found far softer BBBs at pet stores, plus they're small sometimes and fit well in my small hands. I have used rectangular, oval and square shaped BBBs, and I must confess that it's very important to BBB slowly, after detangling otherwise, and to make sure that one follows through completely each downstroke in the hair; otherwise, one can bring up hair from a former downstroke and in this way, invoke a tangle in their own hair.

As it concerns the ickiness of your hair, I would suggest clarifying first to get all that sebum buildup out, and then detangle, then BBB and possibly then oil only the length. I don't know what hair type you have exactly, but I have stick straight hair, and a while back made a youtube video of how I oil and then BBB my hair to distribute the oil. I will provide you a link if it interests you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVwPKMQDYk

I mention in the video that curly haired folks need to approach oiling differently. I realize this doesn't directly answer your question. I think only those with uber short hair may be able to wash their hair with water only. I fear for people practicing these habits because I'm afraid that some people encounter health hygiene issues in some instances. That's just my opinion. I haven't found too many people able to live on water only and having the ability to sustain clean, unstinky hair after a time. That's just my opinion.....

I wish you the best luck. Don't spend a bazillion bucks. It's just not necessary.

Here's a link to the type of wide-toothed comb I purchased.

#IV-116, Ivory extra wide, wide-toothed comb. It doesn't appear that the teeth are wider in actuality until you compare it directly to an average wide-toothed comb. Scroll way down on this page, and it is the first comb listed for all the combs they have.

http://madoralonghairheaven.com/madoraprod1.html

ETA: Yes, I concur. Pure 100% pure boar bristle brush, not a mix of types of bristles such as nylon and boar bristle. END ETA

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Certainly would be - most silk is problematic for me which is why I haven't tried that yet. I really want to, though, and plan to keep my eye out for it. Thanks for the suggestion. :)



I appreciate it. Like everyone else I'd prefer to spend less money, but if my two options are to pay a bunch of money and have clean hair or keep paying smaller amounts on brushes that don't work and have dirty hair then I'd go for the first option.

Not that it matters, but I don't throw money around on my hair. I've gone several years using exactly one cheap hair stick and a knitting needle, which is the entirety of my "hair toys". There was a time in the past I purchased conditioner for about a year, other than that I've been either baking soda/(cheap)vinegar rinse, WO, or NW/SO for the past 5 years. I have a plastic wide-toothed detangling comb that was under $1 with the seam filed down smooth. Other than these things, the Kent brush is the only other item I purchased for my hair because I thought it would work for cleaning my hair. It didn't. And frankly I just really need something that works, no matter how much that's going to cost.

Hopefully I can get away with buying something less expensive that is effective..if I had thought that was a possibility when I started this thread I would have worded my first post differently. I guess I'll keep you all posted!

I would never recommend to anyone that they wash their hair on a regular basis with Baking Soda. That kind of hair wash can dry the hair out, which can in turn eventually lead to other problems such as damage. This agent is meant ONLY for clarifying the hair. There is absolutely no necessity for clarifying the hair every single hair wash.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Wow I just noticed the link after I read this post! I had thought you just underlined it I guess - but I was kind of out of it yesterday with allergies.

That wood looks totally different from the one on mine... the one you linked too does look un-finished - mine is kind of shiny and it looks like it has a coat of something on it but hasn't acted that way - at least the shine is staying there and I wash my brush a lot and oil it. Plus the bristles are very tightly packed together on mine. I tried a round BBB on my hair ONCE and it was a total disaster! I'm actually afraid of them now :D

I am very chemical sensitive and didn't notice any out-gassing from my brush. However on my Kent LC4 the bristles smelled weird when I first got it but I just washed it and the smell went away.

Come to think about it these cheaper Kent brushes are not hand sewn which might mean they are put together with glue. I think the more expensive ones are sewn together but some glue might be involved. The glue might have been what you smelled out-gassing and maybe that was what I smelled too - but mine smelled like 'fur'... if that makes sense? kind of like they smell when they get wet - a wet BBB smell... LOL

The MP rubber pad is probably glued on also. If I were you I would try and find one of these brushes locally at least to see if you can smell anything that might bother you. I didn't like the smell of the rubber on the MP but it went away quickly.

Funny I had a WIDU once (the one that warped) and I don't remember it smelling like rubber... hmmm

eta: for extremely dirty hair I'm not sure if you could get even a firm BBB with tightly packed bristles through your hair? i am really confusing myself thinking too much :confused: i just wish i hadn't given my MP to my mom because i would have sold it to you for quite cheap and I am not sure my mom appreciates it :( (but she is getting more into her hair these days so I hope I'm wrong) :)

eta2: Bass makes some pretty good BBB brushes and quite a few of them are un-finished. They are sold at pretty much all health food stores here. I have one of their body brushes and have had the same one for years. The reason I don't have a hair one is unfortunately the one I chose was the one like in your link (almost round) and I immediately got it totally tangled in my hair!!! Since then I have avoided buying any more of them not sure why...

Good luck with your quest :)

If one uses wood combs or brushes on their hair, the wood ought to be sealed. Unsealed wood can splinter in time and catch on hair which can, in turn, damage hair.

One must kind of roll a tiny bit the BBB brush as they downstroke because if your hair is long, as mine is, it's just a physical thing that has to happen to get down your hair length, unless you draw the hair up with the other hand, which I do perform.

heidi w.

[Runzel]

The Fuller club brush works! Yay!

Looks like I won't even need to use it every day. It's so nice to have clean hair again! :D


I hope you are not trying to detangle your hair with a BBB. Using a comb, initially I had a big problem with combs. I simply could not get through my hair. Plus I had been used to brushing my entire life.

No, as I stated erlier I use a plastic wide-toothed detangling comb.


I can't recommend you spend $100 on a BBB or any brush or comb. That is completely unnecessary. There are plenty of adequate brushes and combs for far cheaper.

As I stated earlier, I require a very particular kind of brush that suits a very particular purpose. I required specific recommendations because otherwise I was throwing money at brushes not suited to my purpose and thus did not work. All BBBs I tried from local stores didn't come close to working (weren't stiff enough), the one I purchased online also wasn't stiff enough, and there had been one brush recommended that was basically guaranteed to work for that specific purpose. That's why I was asking people to either convince me to buy this expensive one or give me another option.

Your sweeping statement that there are "plenty" of adequate brushes out there frankly just doesn't make sense given the context of my request.


As it concerns the ickiness of your hair, I would suggest clarifying first to get all that sebum buildup out, and then detangle, then BBB and possibly then oil only the length. I don't know what hair type you have exactly, but I have stick straight hair, and a while back made a youtube video of how I oil and then BBB my hair to distribute the oil. I will provide you a link if it interests you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVwPKMQDYk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVwPKMQDYk)


I ended up not clarifying first, as it was completely unecessary and would have caused my hair to poof, I just oiled small sections at a time and ran the brush through them. Not all parts even needed the brush.


I think only those with uber short hair may be able to wash their hair with water only. I fear for people practicing these habits because I'm afraid that some people encounter health hygiene issues in some instances. That's just my opinion. I haven't found too many people able to live on water only and having the ability to sustain clean, unstinky hair after a time. That's just my opinion.....

Honestly it's rather insulting for you to say that, given that I've stated that I due to health reasons I don't have a choice in this matter. When I'm able to manage it, WO or NW with a good brush is a gigantic improvement on what I commonly live with otherwise, and your opinion that even those methods do not constitute "clean" makes for a rude and (for my situation) compltely unhelpful contribution to this conversation.


I would never recommend to anyone that they wash their hair on a regular basis with Baking Soda. That kind of hair wash can dry the hair out, which can in turn eventually lead to other problems such as damage. This agent is meant ONLY for clarifying the hair. There is absolutely no necessity for clarifying the hair every single hair wash.

heidi w.

I wasn't asking for your or anyone's recommendation about my prior hair care methods, and am a little surprised you felt it necessary to pull this conversation off the primary topic to criticise something I mentioned in passing. For others interested in using it, though, I will mention that I was heavily oiling in between and would often go a week between washes. I used a very tiny amount of baking soda, perhaps 1 tsp in a jug of water. From there I eventually went to vinegar rinses only, and then WO, then I could no longer do WO very often so I turned to NW.

I'll probably just camp over in the NW/SO thread for further updates. Thanks to everyone who lent their thoughts on brushes! I'm so glad I have one now. :cheese:

[GrowingGlory]

Runzel, I'm so glad that you found a brush that works for you, and that you're feeling a little bit better.

[Unicorn]

I'm so glad you've found a brush that works.

I've been wracking my brains to think of something you could use in place of the nylon hosiery I suggested, but the silk hosiery I found was really expensive for such use. I would be less expensive to hire someone in to wash your hair. :D

Unicorn

[jeanniet]

I'm very glad to hear that you found a brush you're happy with! I did understand that you needed a very specific type of brush, which is why I recommended the MP, but it's fantastic that you've found the Fuller brush is ideal (and cheaper, lol, always a good thing!). You're right that there are many BBBs out there that may be adequate for many or even most people, but not for all, and if you require a certain kind of brush then most of those other brushes are not going to do the job. It's wonderful that your hair and head are feeling so much better! :disco:

[jeanniet]

Oh, and BTW, I believe Trolleypup is long-term WO. He has pretty darn nice hair, too! :)

[Unicorn]

I'm so glad you've found a brush that works.

I've been wracking my brains to think of something you could use in place of the nylon hosiery I suggested, but the silk hosiery I found was really expensive for such use. I would be less expensive to hire someone in to wash your hair. :D

Unicorn


My great grandmother used soap (I don't remember what kind) and a lemon juice/water rinse for her hair. She rarely washed and would put a piece of cheesecloth over her BBB and brush with it when her hair was oily or linty but not dirty enough to wash.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=97002

I just found this (quoted above) on another (linked, post 21) thread. Cheesecloth is a natural a natural fibre and less expensive than silk... Just in case you wish to try it.

Unicorn

[Kamir0]

Thanks GG, that was a really helpful post. Based on your recommendation I'm going with trying the Fuller Club brush (not the softer one) next, and hopefully it will do the trick and be the last brush I buy in a long while (or ever? :D). I admit I'm rather fond of the look of the soft oval and white bristles of the LC4, but pretty doesn't necessarily get the job done and my practicality is winning out at the cheaper price ($25, add another item to get free shipping - nice) and more likely to have a tolerable finish just 'cause it's a different brand.


The Fuller club brush works! Yay!

Looks like I won't even need to use it every day. It's so nice to have clean hair again! :D

:scissors:

I'll probably just camp over in the NW/SO thread for further updates. Thanks to everyone who lent their thoughts on brushes! I'm so glad I have one now. :cheese:

Fellow NW/SOer here. :)

Glad the Fuller Beech Club hairbrush works for you!

It actually looks like it is also an ethical alternative to most BBBs, as the bristles are collected off the ground (http://www.fullerbrushdwt.com/hairbrushes.htm)! :joy:

Unfortunately, I have been looking around and it seems they are not available to customers outside the US and Canada! :(

Please help!

[elea]

i won't. i have a wooden paddle brush and it untangles long fine loops from thick baguettes. i paid extra to have it woden but it could have been very cheap.

[earthnut]

As I mentioned over in the NW/SO thread, I've basically gone over a year without washing my hair AND without doing the proper scritching, massaging, and preening necessary for the NW/SO method.

You should do thorough SMP, but you don't need a brush to do it! I just use my fingers. I use the technique linked in my siggy.

As far as brushes, I found a tangle teezer to be excellent for distributing oils. I scritch my scalp once, to pick up sebum, then distribute it onto my ends. Very effective!

[piffyanne]

You should do thorough SMP, but you don't need a brush to do it! I just use my fingers. I use the technique linked in my siggy.

As far as brushes, I found a tangle teezer to be excellent for distributing oils. I scritch my scalp once, to pick up sebum, then distribute it onto my ends. Very effective!
This won't help OP, but I had my suspicions about my TT doing that. I'm relieved not to be imagining things!:D

RANT: BTW, I bought a Goody 100% BB brush at Walmart/Kmart/WhatHaveYouMart/JewelMart (I don't remember which one, they're mentally interchangable to me) or somewhere in December, and DBF just looked at it closely, and there are NYLON BRISTLES GRRRRRR (I didn't even notice until he mentioned it, which shows how observant I am :rolleyes:). They even said "Pure Boar Bristles" or something on the packaging. How is added nylon bristles PURE boar??:rant:Give me BACK my 10 dollars!! /rant over/