Updos: Loose vs. Secure

[lilliemer]

Since joining LHC I have been trying hard to wear my hair in protective updos more often. I'm at APL with layers, and right now about all I can manage is a cinnabun with either bobby pins or a flexi-8 (no elastics). The thing is, the only way the bun will stay in and be comfortable is if it is pulled pretty tightly. (I was brought up with the philosophy that says it's not a ponytail unless your eyebrows are pulled up to your hairline so maybe that's why I seem to want the updos to be tighter to be comfortable.) I always feel like the bun is either about to fall out or like it's pulling on one or two hairs when it's loose. But today I took my bun down and a bunch of hairs came out with it...So I would like to try to be gentler with it.

So I have a couple questions. Will looser buns even make a difference in shedding? If so, how can I make the looser buns work for me? Do you just have to train yourself to get used to looser styles? Is there any way to add extra "support" without pulling things crazy tight?

I should note that I am really clumsy with braids, although I am trying to practice -- but right now I can't really get any braided style to look decent enough to wear to work or anything like that. French twists just look funny on me...like they accentuate all my worst features...it's a little hard to explain, they get flat on top but poufy along the sides where the hair is going into the twist. Any thoughts appreciated!

[brave]

Your hair is fairly curly so I imagine that it likes to cling to itself fairly well. You should maybe think about trying the Spin Pins -- they hold hair a little gentler than bobby pins do for me, and I think it's easier to not go so "tight" with them.

[racrane]

I second with the spin pins. They are a lifesaver with me. I have layers with wavy ish har and bobby pins never did the trick, but the spin pins hold up really well. You kind of have to play around with securing it, but it's super easy once you find out what works for you. I hope that helps!

[HintOfMint]

Haha, looks like everyone beat me to the spin pins recommendation!

Seriously, they're awesome and unbelievably secure even without tension.

[jeanniet]

You'll learn to make your buns looser. It just takes a little practice, and more length will help, too. One little trick you can try is to do your bun, and then cover it with one hand and give it a little shake or two. That will often be just enough to loosen it a bit and make it more comfortable.

[Slug Yoga]

Well, tight hairstyles can potentially cause traction alopecia, so in that sense they could affect shedding. I wonder how tight you're pulling your hair, because the feeling of "tightness" is probably pretty subjective and influenced by what you are used to, and that's hard to describe? Obviously if it's pulled tight enough to give you a facelift, that's unnecessarily tight. :p A hairstyle does NOT have to be that tight in order to be secure--it should not be uncomfortable. But it seems like maybe tight has become comfortable for you?

I occasionally have the problem, after I have put my hair up, that it is tugging in a couple of spots. I don't think that's a looseness thing, I think that's because I have pulled the tension unevenly, or that the weight of my hair is disproportionately on those areas. At that point I redo the bun.

When you are gathering your hair into a ponytail in order to make the bun, you should not have to pull the hair back tightly from your scalp, that's not what makes a bun secure.

I wonder if claw clips on the side might be helpful at making a bun more secure without having to pull or twist the hair tightly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZEDOMF5ek Here is a video of a cinnabun being held with claw clips. Obviously this woman has very long hair but I think it could be adjusted to any length that you could do a cinnabun at. You can see that she is not pulling her hair back tightly, nor is she twisting it very tightly, but it's secure.

I think a lot of it comes down to practice. Good luck!

[lilliemer]

Well, tight hairstyles can potentially cause traction alopecia, so in that sense they could affect shedding. I wonder how tight you're pulling your hair, because the feeling of "tightness" is probably pretty subjective and influenced by what you are used to, and that's hard to describe? Obviously if it's pulled tight enough to give you a facelift, that's unnecessarily tight. :p A hairstyle does NOT have to be that tight in order to be secure--it should not be uncomfortable. But it seems like maybe tight has become comfortable for you?

Yes definitely and I am actually wearing it looser than I used to. No more facelifts!:D My hair took a good bit of abuse growing up as my mother had fine and stick straight hair and just did.not.understand why mine did not behave like hers. I believe she took it as some sort of personality deficit on my part, like I was telling my hair to defy her will, but in reality she just had no idea how to take care of my hair. If my hair did not look right it had to be forced to conform with hot rollers and tight ponytails and in most instances getting chopped off (to the lovely triangle head look). My hair is probably the longest it's ever been in my life and it's just to APL now; i am just learning how to take care of it at this point, 25+ years later. It is funny, she used to nag me for having an ugly stupid looking tiny little bun (she used to say my hair looked like I had a tumor growing out of my head) or a short ponytail, it is because my hair probably physically could not grow or gain volume! It was falling out and breaking off with all the damage from the heat styling and craziness to try to make my hair into something it was not. If I ever tried to grow it long and natural she would just say it was ugly and frizzy and nagged me into cutting it. No longer, though, I am FINISHED with that negative *poo* ...

I don't think I technically have traction alopecia now because my hair is overall not noticeably thin (in fact my husband asked me why i wanted to grow more hair, didn't i have enough...LOL) and I don't have bald patches where there is tension. But I want to maximize what it can be, and it seems that pulling the updos tightly can be causing some extra overall shed.

I will try jeanniet's suggestion of loosening the bun, it will make it smaller for the time being but will hopefully reduce damage. and given the multiple endorsements i will be on a weekend mission for spin pins at walmart and target. My hair is really grabby so I'm hoping they'll do the trick. Do you just screw them into the bun from top to bottom? I was a bit worried that the twisting would break off and damage my hair, is there any way to prevent this?

Sorry for the 1,001 questions and the vent but one just never knows what a hair thought will lead to...Thanks for all the advice!! xoxo

[SongofLove]

Do you just screw them into the bun from top to bottom? I was a bit worried that the twisting would break off and damage my hair, is there any way to prevent this?

Yeah, with spin pins you can just twist them in either from the top or the bottom. I like to use 2. As long as the pins are smooth all over, there shouldn't be any damage from them.

[WaterMusic]

The longer your hair gets, the easier it will become to do looser buns. Often when it is juuust barely long enough to put up, you need a lot of tension to keep the ends tucked.

[Suguru]

Although my hair is a bit longer than yours, I struggle quite a bit with finding the balance between a bun that is secure and a bun that is going to pull at my scalp. I have very slippery, fine hair, so "loose" updos tend to come undone very easily and require readjusting multiple times throughout the day. That is not an issue is I'm at home or in lectures, however when I work it's more of a problem. My job involves a lot of moving around and dealing with food, bodily fluids and elderly people with dementia so it is quite important that my hair stays up and out of the way for the entirety of a shift. This means I usually end up putting my hair in quite a tight bun which after eight + hours can be quite uncomfortable. I have yet to discover the solution, unfortunately, but if I do I will be sure to let you know! :)

The only suggestion I did have was this: if you are struggling with updos and do want to put your hair in the occasional ponytail, I have discovered that strips of pantyhose make amazingly hair-friendly elastics. They are a little longer than store-bought hair elastics, but I just wind them around twice as many times. It seems to work! They're all I ever use to secure the ends of my braids now.

PS. These "spin pins" sound really useful! I'll have to try and get myself some!

[jacqueline101]

I like spin pins they're great for holding buns. I would also recommend a scrunchi bun. Scrunchi bun is an up do but too tight.

[lapushka]

Your hair is ii/iii, so it's going to take a lot more length than for people with i or ii hair in general to get buns to sit right. I couldn't do a proper cinnabun until BSL; I could coil it around just barely once. Try the pencil bun or lazy wrap bun, although that one -I'm guessing- is going to take more length than you have now.

[dwell_in_safety]

Your buns will probably have to be decently tight in order to hold until you get to BSL or so, at least for more simple ones. What was said regarding needing tighter buns at shorter lengths in order to keep ends tucked is definitely true.

[Anje]

I like mine secure, but not facelift-tight. My hair is a lot straighter than yours, though, and quite slippery, so if I make updos literally loose, they slip and pull on individual sections of hair.

[Tisiloves]

I believe for updos as in other things :eyebrows: if it hurts you're doing it wrong, which in my case means doing it tighter in the first place so that it doesn't slip and pull.

[Hollyfire3]

I believe for updos as in other things :eyebrows: if it hurts you're doing it wrong, which in my case means doing it tighter in the first place so that it doesn't slip and pull.
I had to read that twice to get it just because I wasn't sure someone who put that here..lol!