Pay attention to me, I beg you (advice needed)

[spidermom]

I've been whining a lot about split ends lately. If you're around much, you probably know this. I just want to show you what I'm talking about:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/splitend.jpg
In case you can't tell, that is one single hair - found right about waist length - with lots of splitting. I have thousands of these, some with only a simple Y split, and some worse than the picture where every end of every split is also split. Some of them split repeatedly up the shaft like a bird feather.

I'm careful as I can be without driving myself crazy. I wear my hair up most of the time and not always the same style secured in the same spot. I secure with sticks or forks most of the time, and yes, they are very smooth. So is my comb. I use a paddle brush that has soft flexible teeth and no little balls.

I CWC about twice a week and do a deep moisture treatment once a week. My conditioner does have protein. I use coconut oil as a pre-wash treatment.

Sooooooooo.....I have a hair appointment this coming Sunday, and I think I'm ready to give up my current length and lack of style. Obviously my hair disintegrates at this length, and I'm tired of fighting it. Plus I've been at the same length for the past 3-4 years because I keep cutting back to get rid of too many split ends.

This is what I look like:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/blue-red.jpg

Does anybody have any good suggestions for a long style? I do not object to layers. I've been S&Ding so much in recent weeks that I've got layers already, just not purposeful ones (hope you know what I mean). I need to get rid of about 10,000 splits! need something new!

[embee]

Dear spidermom,

I think sometimes we focus too much on the darn splits. As the hair grows longer, it is older and no doubt more prone to damage - and damage on top of damage. I have splits too, and my routine is *radically* different from yours...

I'm remembering the advice from an old lady about bugs in the garden. She asked "are they damaging your plants much?" and the answer was, well, no, not really. Her suggestion was to leave your glasses in the house when you go out to the garden, and the bugs wouldn't bother you nearly as much.

Perhaps splits become an obsession.

Your hair looks *lovely* and I'd be so thrilled to have hair like yours, splits and all.

Hugs.
embee

[Hollyfire3]

Maybe some long layers? Or one diamond layer in your hair? I have this. I'm sorry things are not so much working at your current length.

Your hair is lovely as is though.

[Vanille_]

Have you considered cutting as far back as waist and adding some layers? I think it would look nice if you cut to waist and kept your sharp U cut but just added some layers above it. Then again, I'm a sucker for layers.

ETA: For what it's worth, I think you hair is amazing. I second the idea that you might be a little obsessed.

[spidermom]

Embee, I think they are damaging "my plants" too much. Detangling can be a nightmare! And I'm sure I'm causing new splits every time I have to do it.

[Nae]

Yeah, I understand the frustration. I would be tempted to cut back to waist-ish to see if that makes you happier. Some long layers might be nice too and it may make you a little more curly.

(Although, I have to admit I think your hair is quite lovely the way it is now.)

[Vanilla]

I understand what you mean about the splits driving you crazy. My hair splits like that, especially if I use ANY fine toothed comb (seamless or not).

I think you would look fabulous with a waist length cut with lots of layers (longer than ultrabella's, but similar)

[trillian]

I vote waist length with long layers,

[jeanniet]

Yowza! I get the multisplits on one hair sometimes, but not a whole lot of them. Just regular splits make my ends very tangly and it can be really frustrating, so I can understand why they would bother you. A few splits, I think you can safely ignore, but a lot of them do create problems.

How short do you want to go? I know you've been struggling to reach and maintain at classic, but I guess if you don't want the splits that's not going to happen. I may be in the same boat--I want to reach classic, but it's really going to depend on my ends. I can't handle too many splits with the detangling issues.

It might look nice at about hip length with long layers; put the shortest layers at about waist, so there's some lightness but it still feels reasonably long. If you want to go shorter than that, I'd do waist with the shortest layers at BSL (which will probably seem super short to you!).

[luluj]

I think long layers would be very nice on you, spidermom. Have you made a decision as to how much length you are willing to lose?

[girlcat36]

I have no advice for you, but I am laughing at your thread title! :D

[Miss Maisie]

First of all, you are absolutely lovely!

I think long layers would be great for you! I bet your waves/curls would look terrific with some of the weight cut off, and I'm sure it would be a relief to know that the splits were gone. How short are you thinking? Waist? BSL?

[MiamiPineapple]

I second possibly cutting it back to waist. I think your hair will still be long and beautiful and you will be able to start fresh.

BTW I love your hair in your pictures. It is a big inspiration of mine. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. I am sure it will look lovely.

[natural_shine]

Must mean that's your "esthetic terminal lenght". If you can grow it more, it will be with big split ends. Be glad it's still a very long lenght though, I have a friend who gets those split ends at BSL (even less on the margins), and she takes care of it too.

I'd suggest to cut all the damage and after that, clean the scennary in tamed layers with minimal cut.

[brave]

I can picture you very well with gorgeous, thick layers at waist. Long enough to do fun hair styles but hopefully stopping the splitting. I would stay away from any face framing layers, you have beautiful facial structure and don't need to distract from it. I love the bright red lipstick.

[battles]

It might look nice at about hip length with long layers; put the shortest layers at about waist, so there's some lightness but it still feels reasonably long. If you want to go shorter than that, I'd do waist with the shortest layers at BSL (which will probably seem super short to you!).

I think this sounds like a nice idea, if you really do want to lose some length.

[Calaelen]

I will be sad to see that head of hair shorter, because it is one of my favourites on the whole site, but I do understand.

I think going to hip length with a 180 layer would be a good start. You can always cut more if you want, but it wont be drastic enough to make you regret it or have nightmares, if you're prone to them.

[Caldonia Sun]

No real ideas, but that's a lovely pic of you.

[ravenreed]

I feel your pain. Splits are the bane of my existence, and I get those tree looking splits in my hair all the time. How about cutting back 3 or 4 inches and trying some layers? I find even a few inches off makes all the difference in how quickly my hair gets split ends. Classic is very different from TB, which is completely different from waist! Looking back, my hair was near indestructible at waist. I had a lot splits, but I wore my hair down all the time, dyed it with very damaging dyes, didn't pay attention to how roughly I brushed it... If I tried to do any of that to my classic length ends, I think my hair would just disintegrate! What ever you do, pictures please as I am sure it will be lovely. I just hope you end up with something that you like and will keep the splits at bay.

One thing- have you given catnip a try? I swear it has made a huge difference in how splitty my hair is.

[swearnsue]

You could cut the length yourself, however much you want and then decide about layers later. Layers would mean a salon I assume. This way you could start with cutting just a couple of inches at a time until you like your length before you go to the salon if or when you decide on layers.
You have been talking about cutting your hair for quite a while now, I think it's what you really want to do. I can't give any advice about style because I have no abilities in that department.

[Kherome]

Yeah, I understand the frustration. I would be tempted to cut back to waist-ish to see if that makes you happier. Some long layers might be nice too and it may make you a little more curly.

(Although, I have to admit I think your hair is quite lovely the way it is now.)

This...back to the waistlands.

[GlennaGirl]

I third (or fourth or fifth or whatever) long layers! And spidermom, you have such a pretty face!

[SoulOfTheSea]

I vote waist length with long layers,

You got another vote from me for this, since you found the split hair at waist. It would look lovely.

[Kome]

You know... I think you just redefined the term, "split ends" for me. I didn't realize that's what they were. Lol. I don't think I get them. I think my hair just breaks off or falls out. o.0

[patienceneeded]

I would maybe cut to hip, with long layers starting at waist first, and see how you like it. If you're still dealing with tons of splits and/or you're unhappy then trim back to waist with long layers beginning at BSL. You hair is lovely, btw!

[SunlightShines]

I think going to hip length with a 180 layer would be a good start. You can always cut more if you want, but it wont be drastic enough to make you regret it or have nightmares, if you're prone to them.

I agree that hip would be a nice place to start and see if you are happy with how it looks and feels before going any further.

[MsBubbles]

If I had your hair, I'd totally go with overall length at hip or tailbone, with long layers and a U or V hemline. Then I'd encourage all those waves. Then I'd flaunt it :).

If this makes you feel any better...here's one of my split ends:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2516/3728847110_a771d8e798_n.jpg

[DragonLady]

I used to get those kinds of split ends all the time. Are you doing everything you can to prevent them?

Catnip tea? Sleeping on a silky pillowcase or wearing a sleep cap? Carefully pulling your tangles apart with your fingers instead of ripping a comb or brush through? Using a bit of oil on the ends so the hair is slippery instead of grabby?

Please, before you cut that beautiful mane, do carefully review your typical week, and see if just maybe something is causing the splits. Is it rubbing against a chair? Have you been wearing a hat or a helmet? Are the things you use to hold it up perfectly smooth? Is the style your wearing causing it to be abraded?

[andrea1982]

Your hair is so beautiful, splits and all. Have you considered maybe cutting back to hip and then trying microtrimming?

[Wavelength]

I would cut back just enough to get rid of most of the splits (perhaps to hip?) and keep it all one length for now. Cutting back AND adding layers might make your hair difficult to put in simple updos without a lot of pinning and product -- which means that it'll be susceptible to damage.

I'm just concerned that if you cut your hair in a way that prevents easy updos, then over time you might find yourself with just as much damage at the new length.

[DMARTINEZ]

I say waist with long layers! It will be lovely whatever you do!!!!

[Mesmerise]

I agree that hip would be a nice place to start and see if you are happy with how it looks and feels before going any further.

Another vote for hip from me! I think waist could be a bit too much of a dramatic cut to start with, and you do have really thick hair, which I think would hang well at hip.

[long&blonde]

I was trimmed from about your length, in May, to waist with long layers.
The layers are driving me crazy. (Well:crazier). Blowing around, out of updos and braids, in my eyes,food,drinks. I had such high hopes for layers:and then I got them. The layers annoy me far more than the length lost:I am seeing the point to how much nicer the thicker ends are coming in.
You and your hair are beautiful;now;and I am sure with whatever you decide too.
It is 2012:look at us all getting near scissors! Lol! :)

[jacqueline101]

You could get layers but other then that try to clip off the splits. I mean the ones at the end of the hairs.

[Wildcat Diva]

I would maybe cut to hip, with long layers starting at waist first, and see how you like it. If you're still dealing with tons of splits and/or you're unhappy then trim back to waist with long layers beginning at BSL. You hair is lovely, btw!


I agree with this post. You can always have a second haircut in a moment's notice, but you can't quickly grow back several inches.

I think you have a beautiful face!

[sun-kissed]

I would not cut all the way back to waist from where you are; that is a chop in my book, and as we all know chops can have devastating consequences. Just take things slowly and don't do something you'll soon regret. You can always get more taken off, not vice versa. :D

I agree with the layers suggestion, I'm personally curious about seeing you bring some of your curls out from hiding..

[Macaroni]

My opinion:

Stop the protein conditioner, too much protein causes tangles.

Add another deep moisture treatment to your weekly routine.

Stop brushing your hair.

A smooth wide toothed comb is all you need.

A self trim of 3" now and another self trim of 3" in December, will allow you to maintain the new length. I use feye's method.

All of the above, except for the self trim, is what I do (I'm a member of the No Trims in 2012 Club). My hair is longer than waistlength and I've NEVER had a split.

It must be so frustrating for you ♥ hugs.

[Seeshami]

Many hugs! I hate those kind of splits.

I would trim a few inches and see how you feel about it. Layers are fun and different but I have a love hate relationship with mine.

I recently cut 2 inches off and it has surprisingly made a big difference to my hair but not so much in my length. Slow and steady trimmings to find what you want instead of something big is a good way to go.

[luxepiggy]

I strongly suspect that CWC washing is partially to blame for your splits. Applying conditioner and shampoo back to back can form insoluble complexes which damage the cuticle over time and lead to a higher rate of splits and breakage.* How long have you been CWC washing, and what specific products are you using?

Might be worth looking into before your throw in the towel on your original length aspirations (^(oo)^)v

*Robbins, C.; et al. J. Cosmet. Sci. 55: 351 (2004).

[NativeGirl]

I hate those kind of splits. I've found similar ones that go all the way up and stop an inch or two from my scalp. :( If I were in your place, I'd cut back up to hip. That way you'd hopefully get most of the monster splits. I wouldn't go shorter, just because it might be too much of a shock.

[insomniac-uk]

Waist with long layers would look nice. Have you tried using a tangle teezer brush? I have been using one for a year and it has stopped me from gettng split ends.

[lacefrost]

First off, spidermom you're gorgeous!!

Secondly, I think you should cut back to hip. I remember you speaking once about needing a bit of length to your hair to weigh it down some. I think going from classic to waist would be a bit shocking for you (or anyone) so I would say, cut to tailbone tomorrow. See how it feels for a week. Then to hip. See how that feels for a week. Then to waist. Etc etc. If at any point you find your hair in a condition you like, leave it at that length, and then consider layers. You may not want layers after all or you'll have a better idea of what layers you'd like.

Personally I think your hair would look gorgeous at waist or hip with long layers. If it were me, I'd cut up to hip and maintain there for a bit.

[prettykitty]

Only you know what it best for you Spidermom, I just wanted to say how lovely it is to meet your face :)

[Quixii]

I'll admit, I'll be rather sad to see your beautiful hair shorter. I love seeing your posts with your lovely hair.

But if it must go, I agree with hip length and long layers.

[Littlewing13]

I'll admit, I'll be rather sad to see your beautiful hair shorter. I love seeing your posts with your lovely hair.

But if it must go, I agree with hip length and long layers.

This. Your hair is beautiful spidermom!

[justme]

I think protein conditioners made my hair split so you might try to find a conditioner that is all about the moisture. Also, I can't remember - do you use cones?

When I cut, I went from knee to classic to tailbone to hip to waist. If I'd gone straight to waist, I think I might have freaked out. My preference is no shorter than waist (I think) and not long enough to get stuck in the crack. ;)

I hear you say that you love your hair, but it's usually when someone else compliments it. Then I hear you talk about the frustration and cutting. I really would suggest hip length, but no layers except around the face. Of course, this is close to what I like on me, so I'm prejudiced. :D The layers all around would make updos harder, I think. I also remember having to change how I did every hairdo because my ends were so much blunter and thicker than before.

As an aside, can you believe I'm going in tomorrow to get a consultation from a real hairdresser? It'd be the first time in about 15 years.

[Maelyssa]

I will be sad to see that head of hair shorter, because it is one of my favourites on the whole site, but I do understand.

I think going to hip length with a 180 layer would be a good start. You can always cut more if you want, but it wont be drastic enough to make you regret it or have nightmares, if you're prone to them.

I second this length and minimal layer. The only other thing I'd suggest is a nice, deep U shaped hemline and some tapering at the sides. You know how they run the scissors down each side at a slight angle and it will give a simple but elegant style. I'd start that not at the face but perhaps the collarbone. I cant seem to come up with a nice pic right now but if I find one I'll post it.

[longhairedlady]

I would cut a few inches and try a new hair regime, maybe no protein and more moisture. Maybe swithing coconut oil for EVOO. :) I would go slowly if you do decide. Cut a few inches and if you still arent happy after that andd making some changes to your routine then I would consider something else.

I think your hair looks lovely as is for the record!

[Bene]

Awwww, I hate to say it but you might need to cut. Take off like 2 inches and see what you've got to work with.

[kidari]

I think waist or hip with long layers would look amazing. If you are weary of going to a salon this is a fairly easy way to cut long layers yourself at home. I purchased and used the Creaclip when I did my own big chop back in March. Here is the video I was referencing. She flat irons her hair prior to cutting and the cutting begins at 1:20. The most important part is probably sectioning the hair and making sure it's completely evenly clipped in the Creaclip prior to cutting. I cut my own layers at home and this worked out the best for me thus far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoCn8KM7WH0&list=PLC17850376BF44116&index=92&feature=plpp_video

[pepperminttea]

I remember you speaking once about needing a bit of length to your hair to weigh it down some. I think going from classic to waist would be a bit shocking for you (or anyone) so I would say, cut to tailbone tomorrow. See how it feels for a week. Then to hip. See how that feels for a week. Then to waist. Etc etc. If at any point you find your hair in a condition you like, leave it at that length, and then consider layers. You may not want layers after all or you'll have a better idea of what layers you'd like.

Personally I think your hair would look gorgeous at waist or hip with long layers. If it were me, I'd cut up to hip and maintain there for a bit.

Agreed. Classic to waist is a long way, especially getting layers at the same time; I'd go back in stages until you find somewhere you enjoy. :) Hip's a really nice length; and if you did still want layers, keeping the shortest ones at waist would still mean it was easy to put up.

I'll be sad to see your length go too Spidermom, but doubtless it will still look amazing at whatever length you choose. :flower:


I strongly suspect that CWC washing is partially to blame for your splits. Applying conditioner and shampoo back to back can form insoluble complexes which damage the cuticle over time and lead to a higher rate of splits and breakage.*

*Robbins, C.; et al. J. Cosmet. Sci. 55: 351 (2004).

Now that's something I haven't heard before. :bigeyes: Is it specific ingredients that can be avoided?

[Trivial]

I would cut back just enough to get rid of most of the splits (perhaps to hip?) and keep it all one length for now. Cutting back AND adding layers might make your hair difficult to put in simple updos without a lot of pinning and product -- which means that it'll be susceptible to damage.

I'm just concerned that if you cut your hair in a way that prevents easy updos, then over time you might find yourself with just as much damage at the new length.

I agree on this!

[Henrietta]

If I had your hair, I'd totally go with overall length at hip or tailbone, with long layers and a U or V hemline. Then I'd encourage all those waves. Then I'd flaunt it :).



I strongly agree with this.
In my opinion there is no need to cut in all at once to waist. From classic to waist- rather drastic, unless your are really ready and you don't care about your length because the ends bother you so much.
What I've observed in my hair, most split ends are on the edges of my mane. I mean, when it's down, the most of splits are somewhere in the furthest right and left strands. Maybe because those get the biggest amount of brush/comb strokes?
So. I think it would be a good idea to cut to TBL or hip (it should make a huge difference AND you can always cut more the next week if you notice the splits are still there) and to go for U hemline- this way the outer strands would get more cut. (If your hair works on the same basis- the closer to the edge, the more damage.)

[Jade_Pixie]

I'd say long layers and hip, I'm rather fond of long layers they seem to give hair more shape/movement/body :) Good lick with whatever course of action you decide :)

[UpNorth]

When I saw the picture of your face I too thought "waist -to- hiplength with long layers to enhance the waves"

[Zindell]

I'd cut it back to somewhere between waist and tailbone length but I wouldn't get the layers! But that's because I hate layers myself hehee.

BTW, beautiful hair on a beautiful woman! :flower:

[Katze]

Spidermom, you are so pretty, and so is your hair (with or without splits)!

I also wondered about the washing. Theoretically we have similar hair, and I am finding WO with occasional (1-2x a month) shampoo (CWC, or SMT then W) washes to be ideal to keep my hair moisturized enough. Regular CWCs, since I was swimming, dried my hair out. However, your hair is so much longer and better than mine that what I say carries little weight! ;)


... I would say, cut to tailbone tomorrow. See how it feels for a week. Then to hip. See how that feels for a week. Then to waist. Etc etc. If at any point you find your hair in a condition you like, leave it at that length, and then consider layers. You may not want layers after all or you'll have a better idea of what layers you'd like.

Personally I think your hair would look gorgeous at waist or hip with long layers. If it were me, I'd cut up to hip and maintain there for a bit.

Seconding this. Hip is still long; even waist is long for most people. The cut can be gradual; you could even maintain longer than a week and see if the splits come back at the length you choose.

[Valfreyja]

Spidermom, you've been talking about this for a long time and I think a haircut sounds like what you ultimately want. If you feel more comfortable shorter then go for it! I second what everyone says about the waist/hip length layers. After all, this isn't a competition and we are all here to learn to be happy with what we can have... and if you're not happy with longer, split hair, then what's the point? Do what feels right for you. It's not like you haven't thought about it long enough. xx

[door72067]

I just want to echo the thoughts of going shorter slowly

were it me, I know I'd be comfortable in finding the line at which the splits were the worst and cutting to there, wherever *there* was, but there've been SO many threads about haircut regret that it is obvious that an extreme chop doesn't work for everyone

I love your hair...it looks so soft and pretty :)


I'd also have to concur about protein overload...my hair HATES protein (in large doses, ie: coconut oil) and it dries my hair hair to arid proportions...maybe you need to rethink your hair care routine? hair changes so maybe what once worked for you is the exact opposite of what you need now

[MonaLisa]

Don't be a perfectionist :)
Hair can't ever be perfect! Don't obsess with the splits...I doubt anyone notices them, when they see your stunning hair!
I am thinking TBL U/V and long layers...if you really want to cut :)

[spookyghost]

I just want to say that I love your hair and I thing you are very pretty! It sounds like you would really love your length cut some and I think you not only should you do it but it would look very nice on you. Unfortunately, I have no layer suggestions because Im just not knowledgable in that area but Im sure whatever you decide will look great on you. It might also give you a new found love for your hair especially once alot of the splits are gone. Good luck!:)

I almost forgot-please keep us posted! And with another pic for us to see what you decided.

[seabear]

Spidermom - you, and your hair, are gorgeous!

If the splits are making you unhappy, by all means get them trimmed off. Ask around for stylist recommendations, if you don't already know someone trustworthy. I would not get much taken off at first, just a trim to see if it helps.

You can also ask the stylist for product and technique recommendations to limit damage. I know that CO and CWC are very popular here, and I tried them myself, but my hair didn't really do very well with them. When the stylist recommended a particular sulfate-free shampoo and matching condish, I took a deep breath and paid the somewhat exorbitant price for them.... they are worth every penny!

Good luck whatever you decide!

[kjirstiben]

Good luck, spidermom! You're one of my hair role models on the site, so I'm anxious/excited to hear what you decide!

I get those kinds of splits too, though so far not too often (knocks on wood)... I think that polishing up the ends and maybe long layers would give you a really different feel to your hair... and you might get to see your curls again! Though of course that would mean remembering how to work with them... :)

Anyhow, you and your hair are lovely, and I can't wait to see what you end up with! Hope it goes well!

[jel]

Count me in as one of your hair's many fans! :D

Usually in these sort of threads, although I favour longer lengths, I tend to advise people to go with what they really want, even if it is shorter hair. However, do you really want shorter hair, or hair with fewer splits?

Having emitted a little gasp of shock at Piggy's assertion that CWC might be damaging in itself (as that is my favourite method too, and very popular on the boards), I want to find out more! I'm sure it's the case for you as well...

If after getting and evaluating that information you still wish to cut your hair into a different style, I suggest not going shorter than hip length, or even better, BCL. That is, if you would like to go back to classic in the near-ish future. Otherwise, if you're looking for a shorter hair style, maybe something like Ultrabella's layered style? It seems to me that you two have similar hair thickness and texture. But I for one would miss your length!

[bumblebums]

If you really have been S&D-ing all the time and the splits aren't going away, perhaps it is time to sharpen or replace those scissors.

[MasCat]

I vote for a couple of small trims to stop at just the right lenght.

And I would love to see what you decided on :)

I think your hair is lovely.

[Madora]

I would caution against layers and losing too much length because how would you feel, after cutting and layering, that the split problem just keeps repeating itself?

If you wear your hair up a lot, you know layers are not your friend, and growing them out can be tedious.

Personally, I think your paddle brush is the culprit in the whole split end mess. Maybe if you switched to a comb instead?

Whatever you decide, best wishes for a happy outcome!

[kitschy]

You are so pretty, you could carry off any hairstyle.

I would suggest trimming off to hip length and see how it goes, if that isn't enough, then I would cut some long layers into the bottom few inches.

I would go slowly unless you're ready for a huge change.

[Amber_Maiden]

I've found splits like that before, but I S&D a lot... so don't find them anymore!

I vote to get layers.

[Henrietta]

I would caution against layers and losing too much length because how would you feel, after cutting and layering, that the split problem just keeps repeating itself?

If you wear your hair up a lot, you know layers are not your friend, and growing them out can be tedious.

Personally, I think your paddle brush is the culprit in the whole split end mess. Maybe if you switched to a comb instead?

Whatever you decide, best wishes for a happy outcome!

In addition to what I've said, I'd like to second this. Especially the first part.
It kind of surprises me that most of people advise cutting to waist at once. I know spidermom says that her splits are as high as at waist, but still. Usually the advices are more like "cut a few inches at first, you can always cut more".

[honeyblonde]

If it were me, I would cut back to hip first!! You can always cut back to waist if not satisfied! A nice straight hemline with NO layers!!! Just my :twocents:

[morrigan*]

I don't know what to advise you, but wow you look gorgeous :flower:

[swearnsue]

Hi Spidermom, I have short hair so I don't know the answer BUT I know you have had pics of yourself with a braid. If you have layers wouldn't braids look weird? IDK, but I'm imagining layers sticking out of a braid and making a braid taper too soon. I guess I'm saying wait on the layers and lets figure out what is causing the splits. If your hair splits from the end and up the length, then what would stop a split starting at any end, even if your ends are much shorter? I hope I'm explaining myself well. If you have layers AND splits wouldn't that make hair tangle more and be a real pain to deal with?

[Wavelength]

Just another point about keeping things simple. I don't think layers are a good idea. If you don't know what's causing the splits and your hair starts splitting when it's cut into layers, then you'll never be able to find them all. They'll be all over the place instead of just on the ends, and the tangles will go from annoying to obnoxious.

[elbow chic]

Oh, man, I think waist would feel tooooo short. How about hip with some long layers? That would still read as impressively long but be less fussy to keep up.

Maybe some face-framing bits? I think that would look fun and bouncy on you! I think layers are really pretty, especially if they are long and nicely blended in... I can't imagine they would make normal updos THAT much harder, unless you are really into the more intricate braided styles.

(I am not a hairstylist.)

Sometimes a change is nice!

[lapushka]

That's a huge split end you've showed us. Are you sure the rest is all that bad, or is that just the one split that jumps out? If so, there really is no need for a drastic cut. Maybe going back to TB is more than enough to get rid of most splits and to even up what you cut out through S&Ding so often.

[moxamoll]

I think you and your hair are beautiful! But I do understand that it's frustrating. I have one little thing to add, but first let me sum up:
1. I vote for a gradual trim back, until you find the length/reduced damage level that you are comfy with.
2. I'd avoid layers, but I'm not a fan of them myself, so that's up to you! I think it would depend more on whether you want to maintain at the shorter length or try growing again from the healthier base.
3. Interestingly, ktani just posted this (http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.ca/) on her blog, maybe trim and then try growing again using the catnip to support healthier lengths?

Whatever you decide, big hugs!!!

[GoblinTart]

Splits are my biggest problem. I microtrimmed and S&D for months, but they would be back within days. I finally cut about 4 inches off, just above the damage, and I haven't had any splits since then. Maybe your splits are catching your other hairs and creating more splits? I'm convinced that was what was happening to my hair. I agree with the other ladies. Time for a cut. Do you know how far up the majority of the damage is? Maybe cut about 4 inches off, and see if that makes a difference? I think just getting rid of most of the damage all at once can make a big difference. Your hair will still be long, but your ends.will be healthier.

[Loviatar]

cut to tailbone tomorrow. See how it feels for a week. Then to hip. See how that feels for a week. Then to waist. Etc etc. If at any point you find your hair in a condition you like, leave it at that length, and then consider layers. You may not want layers after all or you'll have a better idea of what layers you'd like.

This, as Lacefrost said.

I love the thread title. And that was certainly a fantastic split. But your hair is still beautiful even with the splits.

I'd also add in: moisture conditioners (if you're using a protein one all the time, you may need extra moisture, even in a weekly DT) and check your S&D scissors - maybe time to replace them if you're constantly cutting off splits and the hairs are still splitting.

I have also heard good things re catnip but never tried it.

Good luck!

[Scarlet_Heart]

I may very well be wrong, so please don't be insulted if I am. But just from seeing you around the threads, I think you've said that you are a proponent of the benign neglect/no trims approach? Maybe this isn't the best idea for you. Maybe take a few inches off and then follow with regular trims (every few months?). It might help.

If you brush (even BBB) I would stop, and just try to comb. Keep the ends oiled... Is it possible that the occasional manic panic is causing this?

Just brainstorming here. I am always in awe of your hair! No matter what, it looks beautiful. Good luck figuring it all out!

[BrightEyes]

I don't have much more to add, other than I think hip length and no layers would be gorgeous on you. Also, Spidermom you and your hair are beautiful:)

[spidermom]

Wow - lots to think about.

1) It is more the split ends than the length that bother me.
2) I bought new scissors within the past couple of months, but they aren't top of the line or even middle of the line. So they could be at least part of my problem.
3) I should do the test to evaluate what my hair needs - protein or moisture. Protein is not high on the list in my conditioner, so I never considered that it might be a problem.
4) Give up my brush? Sob! Maybe I should. Truth be told, every once in awhile while I'm brushing my hair, I get a sensation of shredding that is both a sound and a feel. I never tear my brush or comb through tangles, though. I deconstruct them with fingers by pulling hairs one by one from above the tangle.
5) I use a coney serum about once per week or every two weeks. I have noticed that a little bit helps, but if I use it more often, my hair gets even more tangly than normal. I avoid cones in shampoo and conditioner.
6) CWC can be a problem? Do tell!
7) Catnip occasionally. I could use it more often; I have it growing all over the place around here. Planted one sprig and I'll never be rid of the stuff no matter how often I pull it up as a weed. Same with yarrow, except I planted far more than one sprig.

Another thing that bothers me about my appearance is that this is what I see in the mirror most often:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/newtaaz.jpg
Sooooooo dowdy! I feel like the problem is the scraped back look, but maybe what I really need is to take a little more time, make a little more effort, apply some makeup, etc.

[pepperminttea]

For what it's worth Spidermom, I think you're beautiful. Your skin's clear and even, you have beautiful eyes, and a warming smile. :flower:


Would a parting help with the scraped back feeling?

[MeganE]

I will be sad to see that head of hair shorter, because it is one of my favourites on the whole site, but I do understand.

I think going to hip length with a 180 layer would be a good start. You can always cut more if you want, but it wont be drastic enough to make you regret it or have nightmares, if you're prone to them.


This! And your post neglected to mention your post wash oiling! What are you using? Have you tried switching up your post-wash oils to try to find something that keeps the ends a bit more moisturized?

[Anywhere]

I think a mini-chop (to hip+ maybe) and some long layers would look great, but layers can be a PITA at times.

I feel like waist length is a bit short though.

[bumblebums]

2) I bought new scissors within the past couple of months, but they aren't top of the line or even middle of the line. So they could be at least part of my problem.

Aha--I learned this lesson a while ago the hard way. I kept a pair of new scissors from Staples or someplace similar at work, and would trim splits there whenever I saw them. The more I trimmed splits, the more I saw of them, until I finally figured out that they were causing the splits. Now I don't use anything but the $30+ hair shears I bought at a beauty supply store, and I see almost no splits.

[frodolaughs]

I have had problems with splits like yours. Although your hair is wavier than mine, and much thicker, it shares the F/M classification (I've got F in my description, but I've wavered between the two). We also share those soft wispies around the face which I can see in the picture you just posted.

Here are some things I've done which have made a big difference for me.
1. I broke down and bought nice hair scissors.
2. Protein doesn't work for me.
3. I am very thorough when I rinse out the conditioner.
4. I gave up my brush. (Sob!) I use it to store my combs.
5. I gave up oiling and leave-ins.
6. I scrub my combs regularly with a fingernail brush. This has made a huge difference. My hair doesn't look neat without running a fine-toothed comb through it. I get a fraction of the breakage and shed hairs when it's squeaky clean.
7. I stretch washes. It's a lot easier now that I'm not oiling.

I found that with my hair having conditioner residue or oil in my hair made it sticky. The stickiness makes it tear and split a lot. I think fine hair is especially fragile. I'll mist it with de-frizz spray if I especially want a tidy hairstyle, but then I have to wash it before I can safely comb it again.

I've also discovered that my fabric-backed office chair is a major cause of damage. Those things are rough, and it's amazing how much you rub against them when you're sitting and typing and supposedly not moving. I almost always wear my hair up, but a silky scarf over the chair also helps.

[skaempfer]

Wow.
Well, I've been wondering why I have so many splits at only BS+ when others with much longer hair don't have splits. What I'm trying to say here, Spidermom, is that if you hadn't told me that you have splits, I wouldn't have known.
I don't know what to recommend to prevent the splits, as I'm a victim myself; I plan to try microtrimming next. I'll let you know, ha ha ha.

As for your face and the suitability of a shorter haircut and all that, I don't think you look dowdy at all. I think this is one of those classic cases where a friend or acquaintance might say "Oh, I look so ____ (whatever)" and you're thinking what? She looks great! Why can't she see it?!

Good luck whatever you decide :flower:

[Deborah]

I think your hair would look good cut to about hip length, but without any layers. You could alway have layers added later if you are not happy with all one length.

[XcaliburGirl]

Spidermom, your hair is lovely, but definitely do what you need to do to stay happy with your hair.

I agree waist with layers would be nice, but you might want to start with a big trim to hip as others have suggested.


I strongly suspect that CWC washing is partially to blame for your splits. Applying conditioner and shampoo back to back can form insoluble complexes which damage the cuticle over time and lead to a higher rate of splits and breakage.* How long have you been CWC washing, and what specific products are you using?

Might be worth looking into before your throw in the towel on your original length aspirations (^(oo)^)v

*Robbins, C.; et al. J. Cosmet. Sci. 55: 351 (2004).
This is interesting. I'd like to hear more. Is this just regarding conditioner being used before or mixed with the shampoo, or would it also apply to the conventional shampoo, rinse, condition, rinse method?

[TiffanieJean]

I get that too! It's so frustrating. I have counted 22 splits on 1 hair... That was a couple years ago. This year I have managed to reduce the splits a lot. 75% or more. I don't get hairs with more than 3 or 4 splits now, and even that is rare. Especially in the last 2 months.

I started wearing my hair up when I sleep. I secure it with 2 or 3 sectioning clips in a twist bun. That has made a huge improvement. I also added Castor oil to my hair masks. Jojoba Oil and Castor Oil would help if you haven't tried that already. The only other thing that has helped a lot was using an old cotton t shirt to squeeze water out of my hair after a shower instead of using a towel.

[justme]

An easy thing to try would be a side part to see if you like it better than the pulled back look. It takes getting used to after having the pulled back look for so long, but you might like it. I really like mine.

I'm going to second (third...?) trying a different oil as a prewash, maybe jojoba. Coconut oil might be part of the problem. And scissors! Definitely get the good ones or your hair immediately after cutting/trimming/s&d'ing will have splits, you just won't be able to see them until they spread.

[ravenreed]

You have a lovely face, but I know what you mean about feeling dowdy. When I hit 40, the eyebrow fairy showed up and stole my eyebrows and eyelashes. They are both there, but very pale, and I still have dark hair. I NEVER had to pencil in my brows before, nor felt like I needed a bit of mascara to leave the house. I had no idea that those two things fading would have such an impact on my looks, and I wasn't prepared for it. Heh! I know that just applying a bit of mascara and a bit of brow pencil makes a big difference in how I feel about my looks. Perhaps something that simple might perk up your features a bit?

I get splits all along my length, even up near my nape. When I S & D, I often run my fingers down a patch of hair, and feel for anomalies, rather than look for them. If a patch feels rough, it is more likely to catch on other hairs later and cause problems, IMO. As for catnip, I now use it as a leave in, and at darned near every COing. It makes a huge difference in the amount of split ends, and how much slip my hair has. I have actually been wearing my hair down a bit lately, and haven't had near the tangles that I used to get. I think it works even better than cones, personally. Previously, if I wore my hair down, I would have a large dread forming on the underside of my hair by the end of the day. Now I just have tangles here and there. What a huge difference!

Have you considered a Tangle Teazer? I love love love mine, and almost never use anything else! Also, what about some face framing layers? Mine are long enough to go back in a bun if I don't want them down, but I can pull them out of an up do and soften then look a bit.



Wow - lots to think about.

1) It is more the split ends than the length that bother me.
2) I bought new scissors within the past couple of months, but they aren't top of the line or even middle of the line. So they could be at least part of my problem.
3) I should do the test to evaluate what my hair needs - protein or moisture. Protein is not high on the list in my conditioner, so I never considered that it might be a problem.
4) Give up my brush? Sob! Maybe I should. Truth be told, every once in awhile while I'm brushing my hair, I get a sensation of shredding that is both a sound and a feel. I never tear my brush or comb through tangles, though. I deconstruct them with fingers by pulling hairs one by one from above the tangle.
5) I use a coney serum about once per week or every two weeks. I have noticed that a little bit helps, but if I use it more often, my hair gets even more tangly than normal. I avoid cones in shampoo and conditioner.
6) CWC can be a problem? Do tell!
7) Catnip occasionally. I could use it more often; I have it growing all over the place around here. Planted one sprig and I'll never be rid of the stuff no matter how often I pull it up as a weed. Same with yarrow, except I planted far more than one sprig.

Another thing that bothers me about my appearance is that this is what I see in the mirror most often:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/newtaaz.jpg
Sooooooo dowdy! I feel like the problem is the scraped back look, but maybe what I really need is to take a little more time, make a little more effort, apply some makeup, etc.

[Wildcat Diva]

[quote=moxamoll;2170243]
3. Interestingly, ktani just posted this (http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.ca/) on her blog, maybe trim and then try growing again using the catnip to support healthier lengths?

/quote]
Whoa! I didn't know she had a blog! Thanks for posting this!

[seabear]

**Hug** I know what you mean about looking in the mirror and seeing dowdy...I'm "of a certain age" and I get that feeling, too, although you look terrific to me!

Apologies if the following advice is too simplistic, if you've tried it before, etc. It is simply what has helped me at times.

My hair isn't nearly as long as yours, and never has been, but I find if I draw the hair around my face up to the crown and pin it or catch it in a barrette before I twist, bun, or otherwise do my hair up, the effect isn't nearly so severe and doesn't drag my face down so much. There is lift and softness that flatters more than sides simply scraped straight back. Side combs give the same effect, but they don't work in my hair for some reason - you may have better luck with them than I.

Earrings! Major ones, if you dare! Dangles, sparklies, hoops. You may be surprised at what a difference they can make, somehow they change the entire perspective of your style vis a vis your face. Or the proportions. Or something. I only know I like my face better with an updo if I select a more obvious earring than a simple stud.

Change your part around. Part on the left one day, on the right the next. Might give you a little lift and shape at the hairline.

Just some thoughts. Again, apologies if this is all old-hat to you and hasn't worked.

[Spring]

I would cut back to upper tailbone with no layers and maintain for a while, then try growing down again.

[spidermom]

Right now I'm leaning toward trimming it back up to about hip length, maybe a little shorter. The face-framing fringe that I had years ago is right about that length now, and the ends look really-really feathery. I've been growing them out, and it's been a very long time since they were properly trimmed.

Then maybe just a bit of wispy bangs ... I don't know.

I do move my part around, but I don't have much success putting my hair up with a part. I get the weirdest bulges when I do that. Maybe it's a matter of practice. I usually default to whatever is quick and easy.

[lapushka]

IMO there's nothing wrong with what you see in the mirror. I do see little wispies that you might consider slicking back with (gasp) some hairspray or a little bit of gel. I think those are in part to blame for the feeling as I get that sometimes too. Those damn little wispy bits and fly-aways! Also, when my hair's been pulled back like that right after a wash, the hair still being neat and fresh, I don't feel dowdy, however... as the days go on, and the hair becomes a little less fresh, the feeling of being dowdy takes over a bit. I go through this every time.

I don't see how cutting your hair is going to help this feeling. I *would* try something to change up your appearance a little bit, but as far as I'm concerned there's nothing at all wrong with your hair. Try (as has been suggested) some earrings, maybe a little make-up (not too much, just a hint of it). See if you feel better with that, before you do something as drastic as putting scissors to your hair.

[Vanille_]

Try a wild color again!

[jeanniet]

Wow - lots to think about.

1) It is more the split ends than the length that bother me.
2) I bought new scissors within the past couple of months, but they aren't top of the line or even middle of the line. So they could be at least part of my problem.
3) I should do the test to evaluate what my hair needs - protein or moisture. Protein is not high on the list in my conditioner, so I never considered that it might be a problem.
4) Give up my brush? Sob! Maybe I should. Truth be told, every once in awhile while I'm brushing my hair, I get a sensation of shredding that is both a sound and a feel. I never tear my brush or comb through tangles, though. I deconstruct them with fingers by pulling hairs one by one from above the tangle.
5) I use a coney serum about once per week or every two weeks. I have noticed that a little bit helps, but if I use it more often, my hair gets even more tangly than normal. I avoid cones in shampoo and conditioner.
6) CWC can be a problem? Do tell!
7) Catnip occasionally. I could use it more often; I have it growing all over the place around here. Planted one sprig and I'll never be rid of the stuff no matter how often I pull it up as a weed. Same with yarrow, except I planted far more than one sprig.

Another thing that bothers me about my appearance is that this is what I see in the mirror most often:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/newtaaz.jpg
Sooooooo dowdy! I feel like the problem is the scraped back look, but maybe what I really need is to take a little more time, make a little more effort, apply some makeup, etc.
I don't see dowdy; I see a woman is living a full life, with happiness and sorrow and everything in between. I see someone real, and amen to that!

[spidermom]

hey jeanniet - no fair bringing a tear to my eye!

[ravenreed]

That too! Our faces develop character as we get older. Mine certainly is on its way.


I don't see dowdy; I see a woman is living a full life, with happiness and sorrow and everything in between. I see someone real, and amen to that!

[RitaCeleste]

Beware of layers! Long ones are okay, but it can get fun if you do a braid and they are sticking out everywhere.

[door72067]

you have the warmest, kindest eyes :)

Bare Minerals is very *over 40* friendly...it doesn't "settle" into places and give weird clumpy lines as the day goes on

[jeanniet]

hey jeanniet - no fair bringing a tear to my eye!
Snort...I see the same thing when I look in the mirror, so I have to say something like that! :rollin: Seriously, what's the point of living if you don't look like you have? We have character, woman! :blossom:

[Isilme]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your appearance! You look so harmonious and friendly. I think of a wonderful garden and apple pie when I see you!
But, I second the idea of a bit of makeup, nothing harsh like black, just a soft brown.

To the hair; cut just a few inches with no layers, maybe a soft U-shape. I don't know if you have tried cassia? You have a few greys though and it might make them more golden or goldenrod.

[Calaelen]

I know this is hard to believe, but you are beautiful spidermom. You look so kind, and your smile is really special. You aren't dowdy at all, but if makeup would make you feel more confident, then DO take the time for that step :) I am always more at ease and happy in my being if I take even 5 extra mins towards my appearance

As a makeup artist, I can't recommend a light eye shadow, brushed into eyebrows with a tiny angled brush, enough for women who find theirs are starting to fade. It takes seconds, and even without any added makeup it adds so much. Take the extra step of adding a volumizing mascara in brown, and I think you'd be very happy with the results. The formula does matter, and that's why I mention it

As for your hair, it is stunning, and if it isn't the length your struggling with, but the condition, maybe you SHOULD invest in some good professional shears, and do some experimenting with products before choping off any considerable length.

As for my earlier suggestion, it was aimed at what would get the most splits gone with the least length lost. A 180 layer at hip length would be hardly any layers at all, but I rescind my suggestion. I'd make some care changes first if I had your locks, because they're so special.

I myself am, having a fight with my hair now, it is tapering a lot and looks quite dry at the ends due to a recent trip where the water is very bad, and not having had the health to baby it as I had been previously. It now looks to me as though it needs a 6 inch trim, but I am taking the longer less traumatic route of monthly, or maybe even more frequent, micro trims and back to natural self made products to get it back in shape.

[torrilin]

The way I usually judge my trims is I thoroughly detangle, and then I finger comb my hair from the roots to the tips. The point where my fingers get caught in the tangles indicates where the splitting begins.

I usually do 2-3 go rounds of this, over the course of a week or two deciding on the right length. Obviously my hair is a lot straighter, but it may be adaptable to curlier hair if you think about it.

I also usually keep after my hair so that it would be unusual for me to need a trim of more than about 2-3". I consider that a pretty big chop just on account of split ends. The stylist *should* be telling me I'm being a bit crazy and over obsessive about the splits. If the stylist is agreeing with me or wanting to take off more, we'll negotiate, but I'll usually ask for some extra to be sure the fraying bits are all gone.

I think you're talking about 8" or more coming off, and I know you do regular microtrims in addition to S&D, so... I'm concerned that your routine is causing splits at an excessive rate. ATM I'm fingercomb more than anything, and that might be why my split rate is going down. I've also been using sateen sheets rather than percale or flannel at least some of the time. Not as slick as silk, but slicker than some of the other options. I'm not sure I can bring myself to go for a silk scarf or a sleep bonnet :P. Swimming is always a primo source of splits for me, and I can't ever decide if a swim cap is better or worse... Going in with dry and/or loose hair is *obviously* worse, but I am always paranoid that swim caps are causing more breakage than I'd get from tangles. It feels like they stick to my hair and I know I hear snapping.

I'm really ok with whatever you decide, as long as we get the occasional Buster picture ;). But I know you're both really unhappy with the splits, and really curious about terminal.

[torrilin]

Another thing that bothers me about my appearance is that this is what I see in the mirror most often

That picture reminds me of my dad :). Not in a "you look like a guy" way, but you both have great blue eyes, and while his hair is ALL silver and yours is silvery blonde, you both have really similar summery coloring. And you look a lot younger than your "real" age, both of you.

If I look as good as you look or Daddy looks at your ages, I will be well pleased with myself :).

[GrowingGlory]

I agree with Calaelen. I hope that you don't cut your hair. Maybe you are feeling bored and blah and need to go out and have some fun. Maybe a new silk charmeuse pillowcase, a wooden comb, and a wooden hair fork, plus some new updos would give you better feelings about your hair.

[spidermom]

Thanks to the replies, I've decided against anything drastic, like waist length with layers. I know it would look good, but maybe I'll save that until I'm 75 or 80.

Today, I bought some mineral oil to try to retain more moisture. Ktani's blog had good things to say about it. I'll try to fit in more deep treatment masques and catnip soaks as well.

In the protein/moisture test, the blonde and silver hairs seem fine, but the white hairs snap with the least amount of tugging. It reminds me of those forms with tear-off strips; POP! Since there's no way I can isolate white hairs and treat them differently than the rest, I guess I'll keep using the products I've been using. Most of my hair is happy with it.

I put on a little makeup and earrings today, styled a side bun with a part, and I do feel better when I pass the mirror.

[Hollyfire3]

Thanks to the replies, I've decided against anything drastic, like waist length with layers. I know it would look good, but maybe I'll save that until I'm 75 or 80.

Today, I bought some mineral oil to try to retain more moisture. Ktani's blog had good things to say about it. I'll try to fit in more deep treatment masques and catnip soaks as well.

In the protein/moisture test, the blonde and silver hairs seem fine, but the white hairs snap with the least amount of tugging. It reminds me of those forms with tear-off strips; POP! Since there's no way I can isolate white hairs and treat them differently than the rest, I guess I'll keep using the products I've been using. Most of my hair is happy with it.

I put on a little makeup and earrings today, styled a side bun with a part, and I do feel better when I pass the mirror.

I'm so glad you found a way to deal with this. I suggested waist with layers but I take it back, I didn't realize how MUCH hair would be chopped....your hair is gorgeous as is! I hope you get over this bump soon and keep growing your locks!:)

[AnqeIicDemise]

Forget thehair, you are gorgeous. You remind me of my Gammy and she was a stunner until the day she passed.she always looked good Just in case she had to go and the love of her life came to pick her up.even if she was in just a housecoat she looked gorgeous.you both have an understated beauty

[Lissandria]

Im glad you decided not to cut your beautiful locks- at least for now! Youre gorgeous btw :)

[Vanilla]

Good luck :). Let us know if any of the stuff you got works week for you. I'd love to see an update :)

[LaurelSpring]

I just saw your post and I havent read the other replies but this started happening to me also. I attributed it to two possible causes. The first being that I had been in a no trim phase for almost a year. The second being that I had started using only a tangle teaser on wet and dry hair.

I did a trim to get the worst of it off and then started doing the monthly microtrim dustings and I have not had the problem again because I am always keeping the ends freshly nipped. I also stopped using the tangle teaser exclusively and started using the hairsense comb on my hair and just occasional use of the TT.

That being said I am generally happy with the layers that I put in my hair. I can still do everything with it but its less heavy. If I had it to do again I would have kept more length and just did layers and then start with the montly microdustings. This plan has kept splits to a minimum.

[WaitingSoLong]

Ok, I read the first 3 pages before I realized how many replies there were and I do not have time to read them all but I did skim and try to read highlights and at least all of your posts Spidermom.

Here are some observations:
1. Your hair grows pretty fast. I have seen you cut back to TBL or above a couple of times and get back to Classic in the 3 years I have been here.
2. Your splits always come back and you always cut for this reason
3. You rarely get totally fed up with your hair and ask for advice like this (or maybe I have missed it)
4. You are (I think) home quite a bit.
5. You spend a lot of time on TLHC

I am home quite a bit. I finally got a part time job just for the summer and I don't have as much time to think about my hair (or be on TLHC). True benign neglect only happens when you forget to think about it. You are always thinking about hair. Maybe you need to take a couple weeks off TLHC. This is what I do when I get too obsessed and no one ever misses me. In fact, I just recently posted a smiliar topic only I am over the actual length of my hair and am considering going back to waist. Our fine TLHC friends also gave me sound advice, try hip first. I cut back to TBL last October and it did nothing for my length issues. I remember liking my hair at waist but it is probably too drastic to do all at once. I think you already decided against that anyway.

I would not be able to live with a head full of splits like that picture. I would definitely trim them out but I think layers would be prudent and I agree with the general consensus of hip with layers as high as waist if you are brave enough. Nix the layers if you really like to braid your hair. But I think you can get rid of more splits if you go for the layers without taking the length as well. Your hair will grow back, and quicker than mine would. You may even be able to do TBL with layers, using the layers as the way to rid the splits without totally giving up the length.

Scissors. Only the best, seriously. And I stopped S&Ding (with GOOD scissors) because it made my issue worse, plus it was hard on my eyes and time consuming. I haven't S&D'd since my trim last October and I have maybe a handful of splits if I look really hard. Usually on my hairs that term out between shoulder and waist.

The best advice would be for you to re-read your first post as if it were someone else's and think what advice you would give that person. Then weigh any potential regrets and wait the 2 weeks (eh hem).

[WaitingSoLong]

Oh and I actually covered the mirrors in my house for a couple weeks one time. When you see someone as often as you do your own self, the beauty of the whole pictures fades amongst the glaring pieces of the whole (think forest-trees). All I see in my mirror is that zit and my uneven eyebrows (they are asymmetrical), my thin upper lip and my small eyes.

In fact, as us, we have never had the chance to see us for what we really are because we have lived with our faces all our lives and don't even really know what we look like. Sometimes I feel my body is just an accumulation of imperfections that I am constantly fighting to make better or manipulate myself into liking (I grow my hair because I feel it is my only good feature, which is why I am always so chicken to cut it).

I have always wondered what I look like to someone who is seeing me for the first time. It is like when we hear our own voice on a recording and we KNOW that is us yet we are horrified at what we sound like because in our own heads it doesn't sound like that. Seriously, don't look at yourself for 2 weeks and see what happens.

[FrozenBritannia]

Thanks to the replies, I've decided against anything drastic, like waist length with layers. I know it would look good, but maybe I'll save that until I'm 75 or 80.

Today, I bought some mineral oil to try to retain more moisture. Ktani's blog had good things to say about it. I'll try to fit in more deep treatment masques and catnip soaks as well.

In the protein/moisture test, the blonde and silver hairs seem fine, but the white hairs snap with the least amount of tugging. It reminds me of those forms with tear-off strips; POP! Since there's no way I can isolate white hairs and treat them differently than the rest, I guess I'll keep using the products I've been using. Most of my hair is happy with it.

I put on a little makeup and earrings today, styled a side bun with a part, and I do feel better when I pass the mirror.

First, can I just say that the post about how you feel dowdy when you look in the mirror actually brought tears to my eyes, which I am still battling now, and it is VERY strange for me. You may see dowdy, but I see a glowing woman with wonderful skin, an unlined face, and happy eyes. You look vibrant and healthy and a bit mischievious too somehow, you are lovely!!!

I use baby oil regularly and my hair loves it, I hope you have good effects with it! I am also having some luck with glycerine and rosewater, so maybe try that too?

I am glad that you are not chopping, I love your hair!!!!!!!!

Definately get new scissors though, I have read many times that bad scissors cause more splits than they remove.

[morrigan*]

You said you use silicone based leave in, does it have any oils in it or it's just silicones?
I remember when i use serum that had only silicones in it and nothing else my hair got tangly faster and dry. But when i use serum based on silicones and oils i get silky hair that don't tangles. For two years i fought against everything with silicones in them, just found out this serum works amazingly for me, i still use conless shampoo and conditioner.

[luxepiggy]

4) Give up my brush? Sob! Maybe I should. Truth be told, every once in awhile while I'm brushing my hair, I get a sensation of shredding that is both a sound and a feel. I never tear my brush or comb through tangles, though. I deconstruct them with fingers by pulling hairs one by one from above the tangle.
When dry-detangling, it's best to gently disengage the strands where they come together to form actual knot. If you've ever had to untangle a necklace chain that was badly knotted up, that's the technique to emulate. A better, less damaging approach is to wet the entangled hairs and add conditioner for slip before working out the knot.


6) CWC can be a problem? Do tell!


Having emitted a little gasp of shock at Piggy's assertion that CWC might be damaging in itself (as that is my favourite method too, and very popular on the boards), I want to find out more! I'm sure it's the case for you as well...



This is interesting. I'd like to hear more. Is this just regarding conditioner being used before or mixed with the shampoo, or would it also apply to the conventional shampoo, rinse, condition, rinse method?

Time for science! http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff33/shoppingpiglet/piggies/professor-pig.png


Let's walk through it step by step (^(oo)^)v


Condition-
Cationic surfactants form the backbone of most hair conditioner formulas. These positively charged particles deposit on the hair (which carries a negative charge at neutral pH) and remain adsorbed after the hair is rinsed. This is what makes the hair feel "conditioned" afterwards.

Normally the cationic surfactant adsorbs only on the outside surface of the hair cuticle. When hair is damaged, however, the cell membrane complex (CMC) that surrounds the cuticle scales is weakened. As a result, some cationic surfactant is able to penetrate into and deposit within the CMC itself.


Wash-
Most shampoos incorporate at least one anionic surfactant. These negatively charged particles can react with previously adsorbed cationic surfactants. The resultant anionic-cationic complexes are insoluble and highly resistant to removal from the hair.

Uh oh ( ' (oo) ' )


Condition
After repeated applications, the insoluble complex begins to build up. In damaged hair where the cationic surfactant was able to penetrate and deposit within the CMC, this insoluble buildup can very quickly lead to scale lifting and adhesion failure:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff33/shoppingpiglet/hair/20120619.jpg



Now that's something I haven't heard before. :bigeyes: Is it specific ingredients that can be avoided?

It's difficult, because the same ingredient often performs very differently depending on what else is included in any given product formulation, KWIM? I suppose the most foolproof strategy would be to stick to nonionic surfactant-based shampoos. Barring, that, there is also evidence that conditioners containing a higher proportion of fatty alcohol relative to cationic surfactant are less likely to form insoluble complexes.


Sources:
J. Cosmet Sci., 55, 351-371 (July/August 2004)
Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair, 4th Ed. (1994)
Conditioning Agents for Hair and Skin (1999)

[morrigan*]

Piggy that's interesting, i never heard of that, but how do you figure which are cationic and anionic?

[Katze]

Was thinking about this thread on the way to work today; PiggyLuxe's idea really makes sense to me, at least based on my own anecdotal experience.

In the olden days when ladies had to have long hair, we know they didn't shampoo very often. Could this be the reason?

[Altocumulus]

I think you look beautiful in both the makeup and non-makeup photos, but I get what you mean about the scraped-back look. I don't like it on me either.

I used to have many splits like that, and it turned out the culprit was my brush. Even when I was using a soft Mason Pearson BBB after detangling, it was still causing splits. Now I use a huge comb with very widely spaced teeth (the one Nightshade calls a "Viking boat oar"), and no more splits, even when my hair was down to TB.

[WaitingSoLong]

I just thought of something else...what do you do with your hair at night? My hair definitely gets the most friction damage from sleeping. I HAVE to sleep with my sleep cap. Even in a braid it gets friction. I may have silk pillowcases but my sheets are cotton and I inevitably toss my pillow at some point. I also cover up with the blankets over my head (especially now, the darn sun comes up so early) and besides, my hair is too long to stay on the pillow.

Just another idea at what may be causing your splits. Sorry if someone already mentioned it.

[browneyedsusan]

Wow - lots to think about.

1) It is more the split ends than the length that bother me.
2) I bought new scissors within the past couple of months, but they aren't top of the line or even middle of the line. So they could be at least part of my problem.
3) I should do the test to evaluate what my hair needs - protein or moisture. Protein is not high on the list in my conditioner, so I never considered that it might be a problem.
4) Give up my brush? Sob! Maybe I should. Truth be told, every once in awhile while I'm brushing my hair, I get a sensation of shredding that is both a sound and a feel. I never tear my brush or comb through tangles, though. I deconstruct them with fingers by pulling hairs one by one from above the tangle.
5) I use a coney serum about once per week or every two weeks. I have noticed that a little bit helps, but if I use it more often, my hair gets even more tangly than normal. I avoid cones in shampoo and conditioner.
6) CWC can be a problem? Do tell!
7) Catnip occasionally. I could use it more often; I have it growing all over the place around here. Planted one sprig and I'll never be rid of the stuff no matter how often I pull it up as a weed. Same with yarrow, except I planted far more than one sprig.

Another thing that bothers me about my appearance is that this is what I see in the mirror most often:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/newtaaz.jpg
Sooooooo dowdy! I feel like the problem is the scraped back look, but maybe what I really need is to take a little more time, make a little more effort, apply some makeup, etc.

I was lurking, and saw this beautiful woman who sees herself as dowdy. wow. That really hurts my heart. I see a lot of things, but "dowdy" isn't one of them. (Neither is "menacing ax murderer". Just saying...) You look warm, compassionate, friendly, approachable, trustworthy. You look like the kind of woman I would seek out to befriend. You won't try to sleep with my husband or gossip about me or my kids. I know I don't know you. But, I wish you could see what I see. I'm not the only one. Others see it too: a beautiful woman with stunning eyes and a loving heart.

[Firefly]

I can relate... so I don't really have any advice other than what you're already doing. I'm glad you decided not to cut though, Spidermom. Your hair is the stuff of legends around these parts. ;) I think the photo is wonderful-- it radiates both inner and outer beauty.

Piggy-- thank you SO much for that! Very informative. Do you think then, that just regular S&C is the way to go, or that we should use shampoo infrequently if at all?

[MasCat]

Spidermom, i think your mirror is broken. The photo shows a beautiful, smiling woman. With great skin.

And your hair is like a silver waterfall.

[swearnsue]

[QUOTE=spidermom;2171008]

In the protein/moisture test, the blonde and silver hairs seem fine, but the white hairs snap with the least amount of tugging. It reminds me of those forms with tear-off strips; POP! Since there's no way I can isolate white hairs and treat them differently than the rest, I guess I'll keep using the products I've been using. Most of my hair is happy with it.
QUOTE]

Spidermom, please reconsider the products you are using because they might be causing the split ends?

[akka naeda]

I've been whining a lot about split ends lately. If you're around much, you probably know this. I just want to show you what I'm talking about:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/splitend.jpg
In case you can't tell, that is one single hair - found right about waist length - with lots of splitting. I have thousands of these, some with only a simple Y split, and some worse than the picture where every end of every split is also split. Some of them split repeatedly up the shaft like a bird feather.

I'm careful as I can be without driving myself crazy. I wear my hair up most of the time and not always the same style secured in the same spot. I secure with sticks or forks most of the time, and yes, they are very smooth. So is my comb. I use a paddle brush that has soft flexible teeth and no little balls.



Stop the brush. I had one exactly like you have and it did just that to my hair. (I use it occasionally because it scritches my scalp better than anything else, but it causes tangles galore so it's a once a month "treat")

Keep using the CWC stuff and stop the brush first, it'll be cheaper. Then if you still have the splits so badly (I have a few) see if it's CWC as others have suggested.

You look lovely, I hope to look like that when I'm your age. I do know what you mean about the scraped back look, I hate it on myself, but if I cut a fringe then I'd lose most of my white hair.

[LadyHazel]

Have you not seen that thread? You know the one that says cutting the length is counter productive?
I believe that thread beholds a clear point but I'm not taking her view to the extreme, if you cut back to waist I personally believe that it could be regrettable, so I would trim an inch off every week for the next few weeks and THEN see how you feel. Every hair has split ends and I don't bother cutting my hair anymore as I'm going to grow it and then maintain it because no matter what hair will always have them. What you need to ask yourself is this:

Will I regret losing length? How long will it take to grow back? And most importantly: if I did cut it back would it still have split ends anyway? (Yes, but not as much, yet, if your hair is delicate like mine then you may know fully well your hair may end up shorter with the exact same splits in 6 months time to come)

I love your hair, think long and hard about even putting sheers near it for now.

[spidermom]

So true; I do love the length. I just want it to be perfect! Is that too much to ask?

All right, I'll park the brush. Maybe I can get a really good boar bristle brush for pre-wash shed hair removal. I haven't been doing enough of that. DH instructed me to clear the shower drain today; bleh! That's a chore I could easily live without.

[MsBubbles]

I've decided against anything drastic, like waist length with layers. I know it would look good, but maybe I'll save that until I'm 75 or 80.


That is a great sentence! I think I might use that if anybody ever dares to suggest I might be too old for hip length hair!


All I see in my mirror is that zit and my uneven eyebrows (they are asymmetrical).

I thought everybody's eyebrows were asymmetrical? I don't think I've ever met anybody with symmetrical eyebrows. And surely yours can't be quite as asymmetrical as this guy's (http://livingstonsite.tripod.com/ronpage.jpg).

[onlyforhim]

Spidermom you just have beautiful hair. Don't do layers. I believe they are more damaging to the hair..
Anyway my best wishes to you whatever you choose. you always have good advice to everyone..

[moxamoll]

Whoa! I didn't know she had a blog! Thanks for posting this!

You're welcome! I was so happy that she didn't disappear from teh interwebs completely!


Thanks to the replies, I've decided against anything drastic, like waist length with layers. I know it would look good, but maybe I'll save that until I'm 75 or 80.

Today, I bought some mineral oil to try to retain more moisture. Ktani's blog had good things to say about it. I'll try to fit in more deep treatment masques and catnip soaks as well.

I gotta say that I loved the bolded comment too! You go girl! :happydance:

I've been using the mineral oil as well and I really like it. My hair is pretty much bone straight (so pretty closed cuticle) and other oils just made it gummy. The MO gives it shine and slip without feeling heavy or sticky. I want to experiment with an SMT followed immediately by MO - I figure, soak the hair in moisture, then seal it in. It's gotta be worth a shot, hey?

[spidermom]

. And surely yours can't be quite as asymmetrical as this guy's (http://livingstonsite.tripod.com/ronpage.jpg).

No picture shows up for me when I click.

[MsBubbles]

Not a big deal. Try this one. (http://www.celebs101.com/gallery/Ron_Livingston/200897/Ron_Livingston.jpg)

[spidermom]

Not a big deal. Try this one. (http://www.celebs101.com/gallery/Ron_Livingston/200897/Ron_Livingston.jpg)

O.K. - got it. Haha; that IS asymmetrical. Good thing my tweezers don't have access to his brows because I go crazy trying to make things symmetrical - like eggs in the carton, the amount of sheet and bedspread that hangs over each edge, the clothes hanging in the closet, etc, etc. That's probably my problem with my face. I can't make it symmetrical.

[MsBubbles]

I've always thought that 'imperfections' in people's features made them more attractive because they stood out from all the rest. I never found so many of the 80s models attractive because I thought they had rather plain faces, such as Cheryl Tiegs and all of John Derek's wives. :lol:

(sorry for the hijack. But thought it worth pointing out since facial features came in to question, too)

[heidi w.]

I am sorry to hear of your plans because I've watched your hair become more beautiful and longer over the years. Maybe you don't really need to cut that much. I know you know how to S&D. I must confess that I have my own bailiwick with splits, and I have seen these kinds of splits in my hair in the past. It's just part of the drill, and managing it is all that most can ever hope for. Aiming for perfection by cutting off all this length doesn't really work. Perfection is for the very few. I only know one person with long hair that appears perfect, and I'm sure if I got in there, I could find one teensy crinkle in there somewhere.

I believe you detangle with a comb or fingers, if I recall. Is your wide toothed comb having wide enough teeth? Are you detangling while hair is wet? Have you ever tried using a detangling spray on a regular basis?

It seems to me that the splits will continue no matter the length. You might just have that kind of hair. A lot of people do.

You have a pretty face and I'm sure if you go for the cut, you can find a style you'll like and can live with.

I wish you all the best, and just because your hair may be shorter doesn't mean you can't visit and weigh in.

All my best,
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

So true; I do love the length. I just want it to be perfect! Is that too much to ask?

All right, I'll park the brush. Maybe I can get a really good boar bristle brush for pre-wash shed hair removal. I haven't been doing enough of that. DH instructed me to clear the shower drain today; bleh! That's a chore I could easily live without.

While a lot of people think that Boar Bristle Brushing works well for removing shed hairs, it's really not the best for that. A BBB is not a hairbrush, not even a little bit. It doesn't detangle well at all. Learn to use a comb; it's the best way. Yep, it was a bit of a hassle for me to learn how to use a comb after brushing all my life, but learn I finally did. I had to learn that a regular, average wide-toothed comb wasn't wide enough teeth for me. Once that problem was solved, I was fine from then on. I can't get a regular sized wide-toothed comb through my hair. It just won't go through my hair at all.

A BBB can actually incite tangles somewhat easily. This is a hair polishing tool, and for those with curly, or wavy hair, it can cause some bit of frizziness or poofiness. So for your hair type, I wouldn't recommend BBBing unless for oiling perhaps, and for that only.

heidi w.

[Safira]

I know those splits, I have them too. Only thing I can avoid splits are hennaing. That is annoying, I so know. You have very beautiful long hair and I think if you cut, you still have beautiful hair. But if your hair likes to split, it will split when it´s shorter too.

[anime_length]

All of my initial thoughts were covered already; I think there's a lot of great advice on this thread.

But I would like to point out that you look like the nicest lady. It's hard for me to describe but the fact is that the choices we make about what we do to our appearance say a lot about who we are.

I live in a place now that is packed with women who have collagen injections, face lifts, nose jobs, they get their eyes done and their necks and their boobs. My mother has had bottox since i was 11. And I look at these women and think, "what is wrong with you?" They look like aliens trying to be human.

But you are human. You're real. And everything about your face says that you are someone I want to get to know.

[spidermom]

I'm so humbled by all this positive feedback. I'm repeating these things to myself "you look like somebody another person would trust/want to know" and so forth. It really helps to turn my thoughts away from all the flaws I think I see. Oh, and I put on a bit of makeup this morning and haven't looked in the mirror since. Avoiding sessions with the mirror helps a lot, too. Too much navel gazing isn't healthy for anybody.

[RitaCeleste]

You do have a nice friendly face. That is what it is to age gracefully. I taught a girl how to heal once as a kid. There was just so much power in the room and I asked her what she wanted so we could use it. She wanted to be prettier. I asked in a way that it would be granted to her. She asked me if I wanted to be too, I said, "I'll settle for cute. Beauty fades but cute is FOREVER!" I had a cute grandma and when I get old I hope I look just like she did. She got her wish down to the blond hair tips that mysteriously appeared from the chemicals her mom used to straighten it. Still, I'm glad I picked cute!

[browneyedsusan]

I'm so humbled by all this positive feedback. I'm repeating these things to myself "you look like somebody another person would trust/want to know" and so forth. It really helps to turn my thoughts away from all the flaws I think I see. Oh, and I put on a bit of makeup this morning and haven't looked in the mirror since. Avoiding sessions with the mirror helps a lot, too. Too much navel gazing isn't healthy for anybody.

You definately need a new mirror. The one you have is lying to you.

[WaitingSoLong]

I thought everybody's eyebrows were asymmetrical? I don't think I've ever met anybody with symmetrical eyebrows. And surely yours can't be quite as asymmetrical as this guy's (http://livingstonsite.tripod.com/ronpage.jpg).

It just looks like he has one raised to me. My eyebrows are not shaped the same and one is longer than the other. Also, some of my eyebrow hairs lay the wrong direction but only on one brow. I can pluck to make it even, which I did for the longest time, but I dislike the constant upkeep.


I go crazy trying to make things symmetrical - like eggs in the carton, the amount of sheet and bedspread that hangs over each edge, the clothes hanging in the closet, etc, etc. That's probably my problem with my face. I can't make it symmetrical.

OK, you have to make eggs symmetrical so the carton is not imbalanced. I always group mine symmetrically in the center. But it is no secret I have OCD. Beds look dumb if the sheets are not centered. I mean, if you are going to make the bed at all, make it RIGHT. And for goodness sake it has better be square, too. No wrinkles, either.


While a lot of people think that Boar Bristle Brushing works well for removing shed hairs, it's really not the best for that. A BBB is not a hairbrush, not even a little bit. It doesn't detangle well at all. Learn to use a comb; it's the best way.

I have completely gotten away from BBB at all. It makes my hair feel awful and I thought I ruined it once when I tried the 100 strokes thing (upside down like the GM method). Egads. Plus, the bristles can fray and split over time. I need to just throw mine away but I do occasionally use it for smoothing if I am taking pictures. That being said I used to use it to detangle. :shrug:

Tangle Teaser is my best friend. I dislike the fact it is plastic and sounds like a toy when you use it (it is hollow) but it removes shed hairs wonderfully while gently detangling as well. It is easy to de-hair as well. I can't use mine on wet hair like some people do, though. I use a wide tooth comb for that and that it pretty much it.

So Piggy, what about the shampoo and conditioners in one (re: cationic, etc.)?

[Emerald88]

After wading through 4 pages of replies, I must say how happy I am that you have decided against anything drastic. I admire your hair so much and as everyone has stated, you have a lovely face. I do understand completely the "dowdy" feeling. I rarely wear make-up and I have my hair pulled back in a bun always and I know I would look more attractive to others if I would fit into the accepted norm. I can't tell you how many times I have cut in layers and/or bangs and grown them back out. I always get compliments on them, but it just doesn't work for me.
I would suggest that you try cutting an inch at a time and see how your hair responds. If you want layers, go for it. You can always grow them back out. Just keep in mind that braids and updos will be frustrating. I am intriqued by the mineral oil. I have always heard it is one of the worst things for hair? So, I will be interested to hear how that works out for you.
Benign neglect works for me. Every few years I will try the latest & greatest every one is talking about, but I always end up back to a basic routine because that's just what works for me.
I have had splits like that and I have ended up with layered hair accidentally from obsessing over it. I have cut and re-grown the same foot of hair countless times and I have finally accepted that I will have to live with some splits to have hair this long. I'm not happy about it, but there it is. I wish you the best with whatever you decide.

[Unicorn]

Is it crazy that I'm hugely relieved to find you're not going to cut your length?

Unicorn

[spidermom]

I don't know, Unicorn; I'm pretty happy about it, too.

[swearnsue]

Is it crazy that I'm hugely relieved to find you're not going to cut your length?

Unicorn

I know! I'm relieved too!LOL:)

[coneyisland]

You and your hair are beautiful. I hope you can find some solution to retard or slow the splitting that is giving you so much frustration with your hair. If you go for a trim or cut, I suggest that you keep the same unlayered style. :blossom:

[khan]

I read the first couple and last 3 pages so forgive if this has been mentioned. Maybe not comb or brush it every day? I don't. If it's going up into a bun - I finger it to smooth it out & up it goes.
Just an idea.
I'm getting tired of the pulled back look as well. There was a thread here awhile back with victorian styles http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/hair.htm
I thought I'd try a couple of these. Maybe suggest it to Finoriel as a hairstyle of the month.

[piffyanne]

I read the first couple and last 3 pages so forgive if this has been mentioned. Maybe not comb or brush it every day? I don't. If it's going up into a bun - I finger it to smooth it out & up it goes.
Just an idea.
I'm getting tired of the pulled back look as well. There was a thread here awhile back with victorian styles http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/hair.htm
I thought I'd try a couple of these. Maybe suggest it to Finoriel as a hairstyle of the month.

At the risk of sidtracking the thread, I've had success withthe Recamier Coiffure in there. It's my profile picture (on the Piffyanne page) and my avatar (see left image for details) and people compliment me very often on it. The instructions were hard to follow but I can explain what I figured out, and point you to a couple threads that discuss it if you want to try it out. It's probably my favorite hairstyle I've ever tried, so I preach it a lot.

Spidermom, as an art-major (who better to make aesthetic decisions? Haha) you are a beautiful woman indeed. Your hairs' color change is inspirational (I spend time wishing my hair would start greying already, and my next thought is ALWAYS "and I want it to fade from color to color as gracefully as Spidermom's." It's a good thing you comment as often as you do, because I always stop and stare at your beautiful, beautiful hair. I've never "met" you face-to-face, before, but I was really impressed when I got to at the beginning of this thread:

People rarely match the mental images I construct of them for myself, but you did. I imagine people based on the tone of how they write, how kind they are, how supportive, how playful, etc. I always imagined you as the kind of woman I'd seek out as a good friend, a loving mentor, and a gracious woman all-around.

Judging as a person who's meeting you for the first time, Spidermom, I'd gather that impression from your face. Coming from a person who's been absorbing your kindnesses daily since I joined, Spidermom, I have the honor of knowing that first impression is the correct one.

I'm glad you didn't cut your hair this time, but it'd look lovely even if you did decide to cut it back. >hug<

[justme]

Thanks to the replies, I've decided against anything drastic, like waist length with layers. I know it would look good, but maybe I'll save that until I'm 75 or 80.

omg, I love this! :D :D



DH instructed me to clear the shower drain today; bleh! That's a chore I could easily live without.

I have one of these (http://www.amazon.com/Danco-88821-4-Inch-Strainer-Stainless/dp/B000DZGJX4/ref=pd_sim_hi_2) and it works wonders for catching hair and preventing it from clogging the drains. And it's cheap. :D
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417HKoD1inL.jpg

[Ice Fox]

For what it's worth, I'm firmly in the 'don't brush; conservative trim; no layers' camp myself. It's easy to cut off - not so easy to stick back on again! Although in these days of hair extensions...... (just kidding - honest!)

And what, precisely, is wrong with your face? It looks lovely to me - with or without make-up.

If you do decide to go to a salon for a trim, beware over-enthusiastic hairdressers! Get them to sign a contract. In blood. Preferably their own.

[spidermom]

If you do decide to go to a salon for a trim, beware over-enthusiastic hairdressers! Get them to sign a contract. In blood. Preferably their own.

That's funny! This stylist is a friend of my daughter's, and I think she's afraid of me. I can trim my own hair, but DD convinced me to make an appointment with her because she's due for a raise but has to have a certain quota to qualify.

[SpinDance]

Dear spidermom, you're lovely, your hair is lovely, and whatever you choose to do will look good. I have to admit that I haven't read through this whole thread (it exploded!) but did get through quite a few pages, plus I thought about your dilemma and questions over night. I'll weigh in on the 'don't brush, don't layer, try a few inches off first' camp. Re-evaluate in a couple weeks and see how you feel about it then.

It occurs to me that you didn't mention what kind of comb you use, and I don't remember if you've mentioned it elsewhere. One of the first things I did when I joined LHC was get rid of all my plastic, injection molded combs, replacing them with smooth Bakelite (hairsense), horn or wooden combs. Mostly I use my fingers or fork, though. If the brushing isn't the issue perhaps you are seeing the end result of previous damage from sharp injection molded combs or some other damage? Just a thought.

[justme]

Want pictures of you with side part updo!!! :D

[ravenreed]

Have you tried one of these (http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-Products-400-Zip-It-Cleaning/dp/B000BO9204)? It is the best thing I have ever used for clearing a drain.


So true; I do love the length. I just want it to be perfect! Is that too much to ask?

All right, I'll park the brush. Maybe I can get a really good boar bristle brush for pre-wash shed hair removal. I haven't been doing enough of that. DH instructed me to clear the shower drain today; bleh! That's a chore I could easily live without.

[khan]

piffyanne " The instructions were hard to follow but I can explain what I figured out, and point you to a couple threads that discuss it if you want to try it out. It's probably my favorite hairstyle I've ever tried, so I preach it a lot."

I did send a message to finorel. She hasn't responded yet so I'm hoping she'll make it a 'style' next month. In the meantime tho - yes; please point me to a couple of threads. :happydance:

[luxepiggy]

Piggy that's interesting, i never heard of that, but how do you figure which are cationic and anionic?
It's usually pretty easy to look up online (^(oo)^)v



Piggy-- thank you SO much for that! Very informative. Do you think then, that just regular S&C is the way to go, or that we should use shampoo infrequently if at all?

You're welcome! I think most people would do well to reduce their hair's exposure to anionic surfactants. This could be as simple as just diluting your regular shampoo, which I think is a better choice than CWC. An even better strategy would be switching to a shampoo based on nonionic surfactants. And of course there's always CO-washing, which is my personal preference. I haven't used any shampoo in a year! (^(oo)^)v



So Piggy, what about the shampoo and conditioners in one (re: cationic, etc.)?

Those are the worst! IPHO, "conditioning" shampoos have no business going anywhere near long hair. They are the most likely to cause undesirable buildup when used repeatedly and do the worst job of cleaning. In fact, many of them rely on the formation of anionic-cationic complexes as a mechanism for depositing conditioning agents! No no no, said the little piggy (>(oo)<)`

[Indigo Girl]

If I had your hair, I'd totally go with overall length at hip or tailbone, with long layers and a U or V hemline. Then I'd encourage all those waves. Then I'd flaunt it :).

This, exactly. :)

Glad to see you're not going for a drastic cut, spidermom. Your hair is beautiful. :bluesmile

[spidermom]

khan, I don't get the instructions. I think I have a vocabulary problem. Pompadour? Puffs?

[swearnsue]

It's usually pretty easy to look up online (^(oo)^)v



You're welcome! I think most people would do well to reduce their hair's exposure to anionic surfactants. This could be as simple as just diluting your regular shampoo, which I think is a better choice than CWC. An even better strategy would be switching to a shampoo based on nonionic surfactants. And of course there's always CO-washing, which is my personal preference. I haven't used any shampoo in a year! (^(oo)^)v



Those are the worst! IPHO, "conditioning" shampoos have no business going anywhere near long hair. They are the most likely to cause undesirable buildup when used repeatedly and do the worst job of cleaning. In fact, many of them rely on the formation of anionic-cationic complexes as a mechanism for depositing conditioning agents! No no no, said the little piggy (>(oo)<)`

I looked up shampoos using nonionic surfactants and didn't really find a list but baby shampoo came up pretty often. Would you recommend a mild baby shampoo?

[pepperminttea]

I looked up shampoos using nonionic surfactants and didn't really find a list

If it helps, here's a list of non-ionic surfactants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Non-ionic_surfactants) from good ol' Wikipedia. :)

[kdaniels8811]

My hair is fine and thin and splits easily. What keeps it from splitting and conditions it beautifully is ... Catnip tea. I read through a few pages and did not see it mentioned. My hair used to break off and split just like the pictures of SpiderMom's. Weekly catnip soaks saved my hair. I know, your hair is so long you would need a quart! but it may be worth trying. Inexpensive to make and use. Just takes a little planning as you need to leave it on a half hour or so. I will do mine tomorrow.

Spidermom - I love your hair but most of all think you are the coolest person, with long or short hair. Do what makes you happy.

[swearnsue]

If it helps, here's a list of non-ionic surfactants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Non-ionic_surfactants) from good ol' Wikipedia. :)

Thank you!

[WaitingSoLong]

All this chemistry is over my head.

Oh, and I think catnip tea was mentioned. I know Spidermom has used it, I read it somewhere in a post of hers recently...

[khan]

Hey lady; I think it's puffs with a coil with hair as long as yours (& mine now). I'm rereading the 'recamier coiffure' now. http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/recamier.htm
I'm looking forward to trying the 3 styles listed. They all involve parting the hair in ways I'm not familiar with. I'm pretty much a pull it back kind of gal.
(haven't heard about July hairstyle of the month yet)

http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/recamier.htm

[khan]

http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/recamier.htmhttp://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/recamier.htm
trying to post image again.

[woolyleprechaun]

May I just take this opportunity to say that you are very pretty, and you have the hair of my dreams, regardless of splits? Oh...Too stalker-y? Sorry...

[Calaelen]

I am SO relieved you've decided against a big chop, and are embracing all these truths that are being shared with you here!

[luckyduck]

Spidermom, I saw where you said that the white hairs snapped when you did the protein test, but that you were going to continue to use the same products. I was wondering if it might be better to use the products that your weakest hair needs, cause lets face it you are only going to be getting more of them!

[spidermom]

Spidermom, I saw where you said that the white hairs snapped when you did the protein test, but that you were going to continue to use the same products. I was wondering if it might be better to use the products that your weakest hair needs, cause lets face it you are only going to be getting more of them!

I don't know about that. I have a number of white, coarse hairs, but most of my hairs are turning silvery and remain as fine as ever. I'm trying to meet the needs of the majority of my hairs, which tested out to be fine.

Gah! I'm so wishy-washy. Earlier this week I was ready for a new length and a new style. Yesterday I noticed that when I cup my hands right at classic length, my ends FINALLY rest in my hands. Now I don't want to give up even 1 cm.

[ratgirldjh]

I never had split ends in my life until I used started using a poo bar that had SLS. I am wondering if your shampoo method could be contributing?

And seriously I think your hair is so beautiful. Even at waist length it would be beautiful. Perhaps cutting to waist length would be nice but please try and figure out what is causing your splits. (I know you know this sorry).

[Beatnik Guy]

Yesterday I noticed that when I cup my hands right at classic length, my ends FINALLY rest in my hands.
:rockerdud

[vindo]

I have been having a ton of splits after going on thyroid medication and still have to do a lot of S&D, I hear you!

But I think as long as your hair is not breaking off or obviously damaged looking, if it is really just splits...you can just leave it be.

It looks beautiful long, you have one of the prettiest silvery long manes. I would think carefully before doing anything drastic. Your face does not need layers imo, you look great without anything added.

But, if you do want a change I would start with minor changes like layers or a small fringe, maybe a few inches trimmed so your ends have time to recover.

Btw., a split end problem that was not there before is likely to be something health or hormone related.
Once I went off my meds and my thyroid bettered, my split end problem stopped too.

[SilvraShadows]

I don't know about that. I have a number of white, coarse hairs, but most of my hairs are turning silvery and remain as fine as ever. I'm trying to meet the needs of the majority of my hairs, which tested out to be fine.

Gah! I'm so wishy-washy. Earlier this week I was ready for a new length and a new style. Yesterday I noticed that when I cup my hands right at classic length, my ends FINALLY rest in my hands. Now I don't want to give up even 1 cm.

My silvers remained as fine as ever... white, grey, silver does not mean coarser necessarily. So I agree with you, majority rules! And if I were you, I wouldn't want to give up any part of my length, not at all. Not if my ends rested in my hands... I can only dream of that length.

[mojavewolf1]

Beautiful hair

[julliams]

I wrestle with similar issues as you, Spidermom. My hair is littered with splits very similar to the one you show and others where the split is a couple of inches up the hair. I have found myself wearing my hair up when I go out because I am dissatisfied with how it looks at the ends BUT it is also the longest it has ever been and I am loving that I am an inch away from tailbone.

I personally was thinking of leaving the length but cutting in some layers to about BSL length. I already have this a little but the hairdresser went really subtle because she could see that I was fighting it. The layers haven't made any difference to being able to style it into anything I want.

it is a real dilemma because we know that once it's gone it's gone. But we also know that we can always grow it back so if you are feeling like a change, I can't see any harm in giving it a go.

If you are flip flopping be careful of that moment when you have a sudden urge to go ahead and cut- that will happen. If you make the decision, make the appointment a little further away so you have time to see if it "sits" well with you.

All the best

[shelleybean]

Hey Spidermom,

I've seen you struggle with your length a few times over the years here at TLHC. I have to say I often feel like cutting mine back to a "normal" length. I find that my hair has lots of fuzziness to it, most of my updo's have flyways and silly stick straight out from my head shorties. Lol! It's hard when I compare my hair to the ladies in my office who have well coiffed and styled hair that is shiny and much less fuzzy. I don't think they look at my hair and think "wow" but I have a coworker who is growing her hair out and she LOVES my hair. I've decided it's all about our own aesthetic. I like the look of the super chic hair but I doubt I'd be happy with it forever. When I see long hair I am always thrilled and it makes me want to approach the person. For me I think the long hair aesthetic is important and well cared for long hair looks so different than shorter, trendier hair.

I say keep trying to have the hair you want but also love the hair you have. You and your are gorgeous! I love seeing your face pictures here, so many folks don't show their faces online. You have a lovely smile and bright eyes, gorgeous skin and a gorgeous head of hair. Like most things in life it's best to love things even when they're not perfect and change what you can but don't look for perfection. The one thing that keeps me from cutting is how much I've anthropomorphized my hair. It's my little pet and I hate to part with it even if it's a little wild.

Best wishes!

[PetuniaBlossom]

Spidermom, I also have been the Queen of Splits for a long time. The changes I made when I found TLHC have changed all that. First I began with CO-ing. Then I stopped using any kind of brush and got a TangleTeezer. Then I started using a mister bottle, especially on the ends, before putting my hair into a sleep cap. And sometimes I do a deep oiling with coconut oil overnight. I rarely see a split end these days.
So my hair is looking better than ever before.
My face? Not so much. After all, 71 years on the planet does mean that gravity has had its way with me. (My bra is confirming that, "amen sister.") But growing older definitely beats the alternative, eh? I agree with everyone here that who we are as a person shows on our face. And your face shows a lovely person, your kindness and goodness just shines and radiates! All good energy is being sent your way by a lot of people. Smile, relax, let the love wash over you.

[Micayla47]

Dear spidermom,

I think sometimes we focus too much on the darn splits. As the hair grows longer, it is older and no doubt more prone to damage - and damage on top of damage. I have splits too, and my routine is *radically* different from yours...

I'm remembering the advice from an old lady about bugs in the garden. She asked "are they damaging your plants much?" and the answer was, well, no, not really. Her suggestion was to leave your glasses in the house when you go out to the garden, and the bugs wouldn't bother you nearly as much.

Perhaps splits become an obsession.

Your hair looks *lovely* and I'd be so thrilled to have hair like yours, splits and all.

Hugs.
embee
i second this. your hair is beautiful and it really suits you.