AGG!!! Stupid hair!

[Hollyfire3]

Yeah, Hi guys its me again! I need some explaining here...so about a week ago I found the perfect shampoo and conditioner (yes its possible!) but tonight after washing my hair and conditioning (my hair wasn't perfect yesterday so I figured the new leave in I put in last minute to solve some dryness was making the shampoo and conditioner less perfect so...I washed tonight) after conditioning my hair feels rough, tangly and angry, (almost like protein overload, but I might need to clarify...) its not smooth and soft like it has been with this stuff, it just did a 180 for NO reason...will clarifying just make it work again? or am I doomed...again...and just when I found something good!:( (cries) I KNOW my hair's gonna be TERRIBLE when dry...should I clarify tonight or tommrow if I am going to? Also, my hair probably does have build up, i used some pretty heavy DTs (yes plural...) in desperation before finding this stuff...and please I know I have done alot, but it was all good until this angry mess revolted...

[amanda_the_tall]

oh no! if your hair is feeling dry, i wouldn't recommend clarifying/shampooing it again, it might make it more dry.

[Mina17]

How often are you shampooing and clarifying?

[Hollyfire3]

How often are you shampooing and clarifying?

Every other day on the shampoo, clarifyed....can't remeber when. I did an Ion hard water shampoo 2 weeks ago, but it had lots of other stuff and wasn't clarifying at all. My water isn't hard, I just used the shampoo to rule out mineral build up, but it didn't remove product build up sadly.

[Hollyfire3]

oh no! if your hair is feeling dry, i wouldn't recommend clarifying/shampooing it again, it might make it more dry.

I would be alright with that...dry hair I can deal with, this tangly icky mess, I cannot. Plus, it was moisturized just days ago, this dryness is a recent development, I'm thinking build up.

[amantha]

I've found that spritzing my hair before putting on my leave-in will make my hair look and feel nice consistently. Even if I just got out of the shower recently, my hair dries super quickly (like within 15 minutes it's already over 50% dry). So I like to make sure it's spritzed to be very damp before applying my leave-in. Maybe you just need some more moisture and you could try that too?

ETA: Upon reading your subsequent posts, I would definitely try clarifying before doing what I recommended above.

[amanda_the_tall]

does your shampoo have sulfates in it?

[Hollyfire3]

does your shampoo have sulfates in it?

Yup, but it has lots of botanical stuff that I KNOW build up, especially on top of all the stuff I have used before...I just use my mousse and a tiny bit of aloe gel, blow dryed on cold, its striaghtish (wavyish too) but fluffy and kinda nice and smooth too...but I know if I want to air dry nice, I'm gonna have to clarify...this is bearable for now though, until tommrow

[Hollyfire3]

I've found that spritzing my hair before putting on my leave-in will make my hair look and feel nice consistently. Even if I just got out of the shower recently, my hair dries super quickly (like within 15 minutes it's already over 50% dry). So I like to make sure it's spritzed to be very damp before applying my leave-in. Maybe you just need some more moisture and you could try that too?

ETA: Upon reading your subsequent posts, I would definitely try clarifying before doing what I recommended above.


Wow...my hair takes hourse to air dry, 15 minutes, half dry, LUCKY! I will clarify tommrow most likely...

[amanda_the_tall]

Yup, but it has lots of botanical stuff that I KNOW build up, especially on top of all the stuff I have used before...I just use my mousse and a tiny bit of aloe gel, blow dryed on cold, its striaghtish (wavyish too) but fluffy and kinda nice and smooth too...but I know if I want to air dry nice, I'm gonna have to clarify...this is bearable for now though, until tommrow

have you checked the mousse to see if it has alcohol in it? sometimes my hair gets crunchy from mousse. i think amantha's idea is a good one

[Hollyfire3]

have you checked the mousse to see if it has alcohol in it? sometimes my hair gets crunchy from mousse. i think amantha's idea is a good one

The mousse has acohol in it but its reallllllyyy far down the list. I will try amantha's idea, do you think I should still clarify tommrow?

[amanda_the_tall]

i vote yes, worse that can happen is it gets drier, but you can always moisturize then do amantha's idea afterwards. either way, it was doing good, so whatever is happening now isn't permanent! we will find a solution, just might take a while :)

[Hollyfire3]

i vote yes, worse that can happen is it gets drier, but you can always moisturize then do amantha's idea afterwards. either way, it was doing good, so whatever is happening now isn't permanent! we will find a solution, just might take a while :)

This gives me hope! Looks like tommrow will be flat straight hair day...then tommrow night I'll clarify then use the shampoo and conditioner that was working. This isn't permanent, I'm sure of it!:)

[amanda_the_tall]

This gives me hope! Looks like tommrow will be flat straight hair day...then tommrow night I'll clarify then use the shampoo and conditioner that was working. This isn't permanent, I'm sure of it!:)

that's the spirit! :) let us know how it goes!

[Hollyfire3]

that's the spirit! :) let us know how it goes!

That spirit, I'm working on it, lol, its getting better. Can I clarify then wash with the shampoo and conditioner that works?

[Mayflower]

I think you need to chill out. You're trying waaaayyy too much at once. I've been following your topics for a while and as far as I can tell, you over-flatironed your hair which messed up your curl pattern (permanently, until you cut all that damage off). You said you had thick hair before that, but maybe you just had a lot of poof and volume, and now that your curls are flattened out, you can see your "real" thickness. I can make my hair look as if I have 6+ inches in ponytail circumference if I want to, with a lot of poof and volume and frizz.

Now, I think you are so bummed with this (the heat damage) that you've read too many things which made you believe that you have protein- or moisture- or any kind of other -overload, and therefore you are over-clarifying everything. Most likely your hair isn't weighed down or has too much protein, it's just heat damaged and that will take months or years to grow out, if you don't cut it off all at once.

It's really not good for your hair to try new products every week or even every few days. It's not good to wash or clarify your hair that much, or to use blowdrying products and mousses. A product is most likely not going to fix your hair. You've opened many, many topics in the past few months and your problem still isn't fixed, right? But you're still trying every product out there and diagnosing your hair with all sorts of different things.
It's just heat damaged. I've had a friend who had beautiful long curls which she flat ironed to death when she was a teenager, and now she has straight and "flat" hair (hormones might play a role in this too).

Just cut out your split ends. Don't wash your hair more than twice a week for a while. Buy a gentle and sulfate-free shampoo and a really moisturizing conditioner. Ditch the styling products and gels and what not. Wash at night, airdry 'till 85% and then damp bun, you will have a LOT of volume and beautiful wurls in the morning. Try to not over-nourish your hair and try to avoid silicones because they cover up your real texture (they make a lot of people's hair flatter and straighter).
It's INSANE to expect results from products or from anything after just one week!! Just be gentle with your hair, as described above, for a few months and you will see improvement. You're sufficating your hair with harsh chemicals that it can't process.

I don't want to say "Get over it", but I do want to point out that's it kind of a pointless (and very expensive) thing to keep buying new products, which you dump after 2 tries, while products are not capable of fixing damaged hair. I hope you see improvement soon.

[XcaliburGirl]

I have to agree that you may want to clarify once, then switch to benign neglect mode. Use your shampoo and conditioner, which you know work, for a few weeks and do nothing else to your hair. Just let it rest a little and get to a state of "normal" before trying anything new. Sometimes it takes several uses to see the true results from something.

When I had my dandruff problem, I tried everything under the sun and I was left with the worst flakes I ever had, plus I never really new what worked and what made it worse. It's very frustrating. Finally I just stuck with something for a while and was able to slowly find something that worked for me.

I hope you have good luck with your hair.

[Hollyfire3]

I think you need to chill out. You're trying waaaayyy too much at once. I've been following your topics for a while and as far as I can tell, you over-flatironed your hair which messed up your curl pattern (permanently, until you cut all that damage off). You said you had thick hair before that, but maybe you just had a lot of poof and volume, and now that your curls are flattened out, you can see your "real" thickness. I can make my hair look as if I have 6+ inches in ponytail circumference if I want to, with a lot of poof and volume and frizz.

Now, I think you are so bummed with this (the heat damage) that you've read too many things which made you believe that you have protein- or moisture- or any kind of other -overload, and therefore you are over-clarifying everything. Most likely your hair isn't weighed down or has too much protein, it's just heat damaged and that will take months or years to grow out, if you don't cut it off all at once.

It's really not good for your hair to try new products every week or even every few days. It's not good to wash or clarify your hair that much, or to use blowdrying products and mousses. A product is most likely not going to fix your hair. You've opened many, many topics in the past few months and your problem still isn't fixed, right? But you're still trying every product out there and diagnosing your hair with all sorts of different things.
It's just heat damaged. I've had a friend who had beautiful long curls which she flat ironed to death when she was a teenager, and now she has straight and "flat" hair (hormones might play a role in this too).

Just cut out your split ends. Don't wash your hair more than twice a week for a while. Buy a gentle and sulfate-free shampoo and a really moisturizing conditioner. Ditch the styling products and gels and what not. Wash at night, airdry 'till 85% and then damp bun, you will have a LOT of volume and beautiful wurls in the morning. Try to not over-nourish your hair and try to avoid silicones because they cover up your real texture (they make a lot of people's hair flatter and straighter).
It's INSANE to expect results from products or from anything after just one week!! Just be gentle with your hair, as described above, for a few months and you will see improvement. You're sufficating your hair with harsh chemicals that it can't process.

I don't want to say "Get over it", but I do want to point out that's it kind of a pointless (and very expensive) thing to keep buying new products, which you dump after 2 tries, while products are not capable of fixing damaged hair. I hope you see improvement soon.

Sorry for the miswording, my hair isn't thinner, the curl is just gone, the ponytail is still the same (4.25), it just doesn't curl. I have measured it both straight and dry, the ponytail is the same, so no hormones have changed my hair, its just damaged. I don't honestly know if I'll take your advice, I like the shampoo and conditioner that was working and don't really like sulfate free, I might eventually ditch the styling product, but I only use one so its not really a big issue. I understand the get over it and give it up response, I will consider your advice, but again, I have tried alot, so I will just clarify and begin with this shampoo that was working, then get over it.

[Hollyfire3]

I have to agree that you may want to clarify once, then switch to benign neglect mode. Use your shampoo and conditioner, which you know work, for a few weeks and do nothing else to your hair. Just let it rest a little and get to a state of "normal" before trying anything new. Sometimes it takes several uses to see the true results from something.

When I had my dandruff problem, I tried everything under the sun and I was left with the worst flakes I ever had, plus I never really new what worked and what made it worse. It's very frustrating. Finally I just stuck with something for a while and was able to slowly find something that worked for me.

I hope you have good luck with your hair.

I plan to do as you say, hopefully it works (for good this time)

[Hollyfire3]

Thank you everyone for all the advice, I understand the people who were blunt and the ones who tried to help, and I appreciate it. I just need a little support here, I understand I have done alot, I know I need to chill, but it is very hard for me to do in practice so please excuse the multiple topics and so on. I will definitly find different things to talk about in my topic from now on.

[BeckyAH]

Thank you everyone for all the advice, I understand the people who were blunt and the ones who tried to help, and I appreciate it. I just need a little support here, I understand I have done alot, I know I need to chill, but it is very hard for me to do in practice so please excuse the multiple topics and so on. I will definitly find different things to talk about in my topic from now on.

I don't think anyone's upset at you for starting a lot of topics, or talking about your frustration with your hair, or things you're trying - that's what the forum's for, right?

The problem is, the best advice anyone can really give you is 'stop looking for the magic product; there isn't one.'. The hair you have now is damaged. NO product or handling or treatment on the planet can reverse that. Some can disguise it a bit, but that's about it.

Plenty of handling, products, and treatments can make it more damaged, though.

I have actual, honest to go, diagnosed and treated, OCD. I can become obsessive about just about anything - including my hair. I can tell you with absolute, 100% certainty, that my hair has never benefited from it. And has often been trashed by it.

No one's trying to be mean. It's just - that is the advice. That's the ONLY advice. Trust me. I know you don't want to hear that, but - Time and patience. Keep it clean, keep it conditioned, wear it up as much as you can, handle it as little as you can, get occasional trims and focus on living healthy so the new hair coming in is healthy and strong. Wait.

[cfreya]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with Mayflower
All you need to do is relax and think about something other than hair until the damage grows out
I know you think your hair looks awful up and you need to wash every day, honestly I was exactly the same about 4 months ago but I just decided putting it up and letting it get greasy sometimes was a sacrifice I had to make so that in a year or a few years my hair will be long and healthy
Honestly you will feel much better after a while of just ignoring it, I certainly do and my hair looks much better for it :)

[BeckyAH]

Oh, and also? Check your expectations in general, maybe?

Because a lot of pictures on this site aren't truly representative of every day hair. No more so than hair models in shampoo commercials. 18 out-takes to get one we feel comfortable sharing. Plus, frankly, hair texture changes with age and hormones and other things. And memory and rose tinted glasses can all alter perception.

That all adds up to wanting something that's impossible. I have vivid memories of having waist length, gorgeous, hair years ago. I saw a picture. It was fried. And orange.

[Hollyfire3]

I don't think anyone's upset at you for starting a lot of topics, or talking about your frustration with your hair, or things you're trying - that's what the forum's for, right?

The problem is, the best advice anyone can really give you is 'stop looking for the magic product; there isn't one.'. The hair you have now is damaged. NO product or handling or treatment on the planet can reverse that. Some can disguise it a bit, but that's about it.

Plenty of handling, products, and treatments can make it more damaged, though.

I have actual, honest to go, diagnosed and treated, OCD. I can become obsessive about just about anything - including my hair. I can tell you with absolute, 100% certainty, that my hair has never benefited from it. And has often been trashed by it.

No one's trying to be mean. It's just - that is the advice. That's the ONLY advice. Trust me. I know you don't want to hear that, but - Time and patience. Keep it clean, keep it conditioned, wear it up as much as you can, handle it as little as you can, get occasional trims and focus on living healthy so the new hair coming in is healthy and strong. Wait.

Thank you, this is both blunt and true as well as considerate. I am coming to terms that I do need to just give it all a rest, its just hard.

[BeckyAH]

Thank you, this is both blunt and true as well as considerate. I am coming to terms that I do need to just give it all a rest, its just hard.
**Hugs** I hear you, I really do. Man, do I hear you.

(Some of my most horrid hair-cuts came from the 'have-to-do-something-can't-leave-it-alone' thing I get going on.)

[Hollyfire3]

**Hugs** I hear you, I really do. Man, do I hear you.

I'm glad you understand, I'm glad someone does...I just have to get past it now. I know how it feels to do something because you feel like you HAVE to do something, then regreting it.

[BeckyAH]

I'm glad you understand, I'm glad someone does...I just have to get past it now. I know how it feels to do something because you feel like you HAVE to do something, then regreting it.


I totally, totally do.

And deposit only veggie dyes? Saved me - or my hair, anyway. I do something, something changes, they're pretty good for my hair and they certainly aren't damaging (the bleaching I did initally was, but that's a horse of another color). Leaving it alone is just... well, it's hard.

Oh, the other thing that helped me - giving myself dates to reassess things. Trim if I want, try a different set of products, length check, heat style if I want -whatever. Having a date to look toward makes the impulse much easier to fight down. Because it's not indefinite, I'm just putting it off.

[Hollyfire3]

I totally, totally do.

And deposit only veggie dyes? Saved me - or my hair, anyway. I do something, something changes, they're pretty good for my hair and they certainly aren't damaging (the bleaching I did initally was, but that's a horse of another color). Leaving it alone is just... well, it's hard.

Oh, the other thing that helped me - giving myself dates to reassess things. Trim if I want, try a different set of products, length check, heat style if I want -whatever. Having a date to look toward makes the impulse much easier to fight down.
Because it's not indefinite, I'm just putting it off.

I LOVE the last idea! I will be doing that.

[Gogobaby]

You may be washing too frequently.. Think your hair is crying for some natural scalp oils :)

[afu]

I think the idea of setting dates to re-assess the hair situation is a great one :)

I know how you feel with the frustration; i found the perfect regime of COing (light conditioner, 1 stage) then applying a little conditioner as a leave in followed by coconut oil. Then last week i stayed at a friends and used her conditioner which contained keratin and my hair went crazy frizzy! So i reacted by doing a deep, overnight coconut treatment, which made the frizz 10 times worse :( then i went and experimented with aloe - my hair is still a frizzy mess! The lesson for me: if my hair goes crazy, take a step backwards instead of trying to take steps forward into new things. If id just gone straight back to my usual routine my hair would probably be tame again by now!

I hope you manage to get back on track soon :)

[Hollyfire3]

I think the idea of setting dates to re-assess the hair situation is a great one :)

I know how you feel with the frustration; i found the perfect regime of COing (light conditioner, 1 stage) then applying a little conditioner as a leave in followed by coconut oil. Then last week i stayed at a friends and used her conditioner which contained keratin and my hair went crazy frizzy! So i reacted by doing a deep, overnight coconut treatment, which made the frizz 10 times worse :( then i went and experimented with aloe - my hair is still a frizzy mess! The lesson for me: if my hair goes crazy, take a step backwards instead of trying to take steps forward into new things. If id just gone straight back to my usual routine my hair would probably be tame again by now!

I hope you manage to get back on track soon :)

Oh wow, sounds like your poor hair hates protein! Mine does too, it goes coarser and striaghter and icky feeling...no fun. I am trying to take a step back by clarifying (lightly clarifying, one quick diluted lather) then using the shampoo and conditioner that WAS working, hopefully it gets back on track too:) Good luck with getting your hair back on track too!

[afu]

thanks, let us know how you get on :)

[Hollyfire3]

thanks, let us know how you get on :)

I sure will! I'm going off to do this now

[Mina17]

I think you need to chill out. You're trying waaaayyy too much at once. I've been following your topics for a while and as far as I can tell, you over-flatironed your hair which messed up your curl pattern (permanently, until you cut all that damage off). You said you had thick hair before that, but maybe you just had a lot of poof and volume, and now that your curls are flattened out, you can see your "real" thickness. I can make my hair look as if I have 6+ inches in ponytail circumference if I want to, with a lot of poof and volume and frizz.

Now, I think you are so bummed with this (the heat damage) that you've read too many things which made you believe that you have protein- or moisture- or any kind of other -overload, and therefore you are over-clarifying everything. Most likely your hair isn't weighed down or has too much protein, it's just heat damaged and that will take months or years to grow out, if you don't cut it off all at once.

It's really not good for your hair to try new products every week or even every few days. It's not good to wash or clarify your hair that much, or to use blowdrying products and mousses. A product is most likely not going to fix your hair. You've opened many, many topics in the past few months and your problem still isn't fixed, right? But you're still trying every product out there and diagnosing your hair with all sorts of different things.
It's just heat damaged. I've had a friend who had beautiful long curls which she flat ironed to death when she was a teenager, and now she has straight and "flat" hair (hormones might play a role in this too).

Just cut out your split ends. Don't wash your hair more than twice a week for a while. Buy a gentle and sulfate-free shampoo and a really moisturizing conditioner. Ditch the styling products and gels and what not. Wash at night, airdry 'till 85% and then damp bun, you will have a LOT of volume and beautiful wurls in the morning. Try to not over-nourish your hair and try to avoid silicones because they cover up your real texture (they make a lot of people's hair flatter and straighter).
It's INSANE to expect results from products or from anything after just one week!! Just be gentle with your hair, as described above, for a few months and you will see improvement. You're sufficating your hair with harsh chemicals that it can't process.

I don't want to say "Get over it", but I do want to point out that's it kind of a pointless (and very expensive) thing to keep buying new products, which you dump after 2 tries, while products are not capable of fixing damaged hair. I hope you see improvement soon.

This. Excellent advice!!

[Hollyfire3]

Alright, I clarified then washed with my shampoo and conditioner the mistake? I washed it twice with my shampoo....far too much washing! I feel bad but the urge to try and fix it kicked in and took over...so I set it in two HUGE rag curls and its half way decent today. Not decent enough to wear down, but decent enough that by after my wash tonight, it should be on the track to normalcy. (btw, are scrunchies (the big ones) damaging? I have been wearing a looped ponytail with one for most of the week and don't want breakage but need my hair out of the way easily.)

[afu]

if theyre tight and/or always in the same place they are

[Hollyfire3]

if theyre tight and/or always in the same place they are

Its pretty tight because the loop is heavy, maybe i can vary the place...so scared I already have breakage! And no one will mind or care if I clarify this one point but, my hair is not thinner because the curls are damaged, it just looks bad to me, so to whoever said "your hair may not be thick, it just had alot of volume" this is not the case, I used the wrong words in most of my threads out of frustration because although there is no real chnage in hair thickness, the volume isn't there and it makes me mad, I'm sorry for any confusion.

[lapushka]

You're definitely not hearing the ones who are crying out to you to accept it, are you? :lol: I get that. I so get that! You keep trying to fix what's wrong, but what Mayflower said actually is true, IMO. As blunt as it may come across to you, some members have pointed this out before.

Anyway, I do hope you find something that works or that you can at least live with until the damage grows out. :flower:

[Hollyfire3]

You're definitely not hearing the ones who are crying out to you to accept it, are you? :lol: I get that. I so get that! You keep trying to fix what's wrong, but what Mayflower said actually is true, IMO. As blunt as it may come across to you, some members have pointed this out before.

Anyway, I do hope you find something that works or that you can at least live with until the damage grows out. :flower:

Accept what?

[afu]

have you tried using hairsticks? I've got a patch of particularly damaged hair which has now grown to be at the same level i usually do my updos, i now try to use a hairstick (or a DPN in my case) as much as possible for buns to minimise getting breakage there

[Mayflower]

Oh I wasn't trying to come across as harsh at all, I was just trying to help you Hollyfire3. If my hair was driving me crazy I would want someone to tell me straight-up to just accept things instead of stressing out (which isn't great hair-wise either ;)).

[Hollyfire3]

have you tried using hairsticks? I've got a patch of particularly damaged hair which has now grown to be at the same level i usually do my updos, i now try to use a hairstick (or a DPN in my case) as much as possible for buns to minimise getting breakage there

I have a chopstick (decorated, pretty set), but the only bun I can really do at this length is a cinnabun, which is so boring and no fun...:(

[BeckyAH]

... You really need to make a schedule and stick with it. Wash Monday and Friday. Do a treatment Wednesday. Sam products and treatment for a month. Last day of the month assess and change if you want. Keep a blog and track things. Try styles, or curling methods of you want and blog those, too.

Maybe even do a 'wear hair up' challenge.

Try to redirect your focus from throwing everything you run across on your head,.

At the rate you're doing stuff, how are you even going to be sure what is working, what isn't , and remember them?

[Hollyfire3]

Oh I wasn't trying to come across as harsh at all, I was just trying to help you Hollyfire3. If my hair was driving me crazy I would want someone to tell me straight-up to just accept things instead of stressing out (which isn't great hair-wise either ;)).

Thank you for saying that, I can be a bit sensitive, especially about this, I am trying to accept that my hair is just going to look...different while the damage is growing out. The only reason I clarified on the thickness part is that I too was worried that my thickness had changed because of the loss of curl, I have checked it MANY times, it hasn't changed, luckily my hair isn't so curly that the curls take up more room in the ponytail, its really tight waves so it just looks fuller down when wavy, but ponytail is the same (although I agree that undamaged, my curls give a ridiculous ponytail circumfrence like you mentioned about your hair lol. I will just suck it up, stick with shampoo and conditioner that had started to work, work on stretching washes and doing updos and just letting it grow so it can be healthy looking again.

[Hollyfire3]

... You really need to make a schedule and stick with it. Wash Monday and Friday. Do a treatment Wednesday. Sam products and treatment for a month. Last day of the month assess and change if you want. Keep a blog and track things. Try styles, or curling methods of you want and blog those, too.

Maybe even do a 'wear hair up' challenge.

Try to redirect your focus from throwing everything you run across on your head,.

At the rate you're doing stuff, how are you even going to be sure what is working, what isn't , and remember them?

This is such good advice...now to write up a schedule. Can I wash every day or every other day? I know I'm washing tonight but maybe after that go to every other day washes? I need to at least write them down, and I will, starting tonight. Thank you so much! Good point, I may not even know what works continuously if I don't write it down.

[DaniVerde]

You're definitely not hearing the ones who are crying out to you to accept it, are you? :lol: I get that. I so get that! You keep trying to fix what's wrong, but what Mayflower said actually is true, IMO. As blunt as it may come across to you, some members have pointed this out before.

Anyway, I do hope you find something that works or that you can at least live with until the damage grows out. :flower:

We truly need a "like" button on LHC :flower:

[Hollyfire3]

We truly need a "like" button on LHC :flower:

Why does everyone always like the comments that make me feel kinda bad at first....:confused:

[BeckyAH]

This is such good advice...now to write up a schedule. Can I wash every day or every other day? I know I'm washing tonight but maybe after that go to every other day washes? I need to at least write them down, and I will, starting tonight. Thank you so much! Good point, I may not even know what works continuously if I don't write it down.

Do whatever will work! Have fun with it, just write it down and stick with it :p. That actual schedule was actually mine. :o

[BeckyAH]

Why does everyone always like the comments that make me feel kinda bad at first....:confused:

Because as true as they are, telling you you can't fix it kinda hurts?

[DaniVerde]

Why does everyone always like the comments that make me feel kinda bad at first....:confused:

Because sometimes the truth hurts.

I worry that you may be doing more damage hopping from thing to thing..but you tend to ignore the advice of people who tell you to try to be more patient.

And that's not said to be accusing or mean, just direct and honest.

[Hollyfire3]

Because as true as they are, telling you you can't fix it kinda hurts?

Yes it does, very much so

[BeckyAH]

Yes it does, very much so

I get it. I'm a fixer. Having a plan HELPS. Heck, having a plan helps me even when I'm not fixing. Lists are my friend!

[Hollyfire3]

Because sometimes the truth hurts.

I worry that you may be doing more damage hopping from thing to thing..but you tend to ignore the advice of people who tell you to try to be more patient.

And that's not said to be accusing or mean, just direct and honest.

I didn't even worry that it is damaging, never really thought about it, as someone who deals out the truth to family and friends often, i sure have an issue taking it....I know I should take the advice, it is just really hard, like struggling to take it hard.

[HintOfMint]

Why does everyone always like the comments that make me feel kinda bad at first....:confused:

It's a tough love thing. We all want you to have the hair of your dreams, but your frustration is palpable and we just want you to chill and stop trying to achieve the unattainable. Your hair is damaged and you just need to let it grow out to a point where you feel comfortable cutting off the damage. Sometimes the best advice is the hardest to hear.

PS, how did the large pin curls work for you?

[Hollyfire3]

I get it. I'm a fixer. Having a plan HELPS. Heck, having a plan helps me even when I'm not fixing. Lists are my friend!

I am a fixer so obviously, it really hurts me when I CAN'T fix something, in life in general, it just gives me this no hope and doomed feeling I hate so much. Shedules do help, wonder why I never thought of them for my hair? I'm glad you did!

[BeckyAH]

Because sometimes the truth hurts.

I worry that you may be doing more damage hopping from thing to thing..but you tend to ignore the advice of people who tell you to try to be more patient.

And that's not said to be accusing or mean, just direct and honest.

I agree with you -and don't think for a second that I don't - but I also think that sometimes you have to take the 'concrit' approach along with the tough love one.

Which is, yeah - tell them what they're doing wrong, but also tell them what they're doing right - or give them something they can continue to work on, you know?

/random and off topic.:eyebrows:

[Hollyfire3]

It's a tough love thing. We all want you to have the hair of your dreams, but your frustration is palpable and we just want you to chill and stop trying to achieve the unattainable. Your hair is damaged and you just need to let it grow out to a point where you feel comfortable cutting off the damage. Sometimes the best advice is the hardest to hear.

PS, how did the large pin curls work for you?

I want the hair of my dreams also...but i worry its not at all attaninable, but I think it might be, fixing the damage to get there is not however, possible, I just need to realize this. The large pin curls wouldn't stay up and I forgot to buy bobby pins....I want to try them still, maybe I could do things like that instead of trying 20 different products? But then I worry about the little hairs that break...and the damage of sleeping in them and....scary stuff like that

[lapushka]

Accept what?

Accept that you have heat damage. Accept that there's no miracle cure or product. Accept that it's not going to get better by trying all these different things... etc. ... :)

Basically, I agree with what a few others have posted. I too have tried to talk to you about this in the past a little bit when I said that advice to take it easy on the products and on overloading your hair with different things seems to be falling on deaf ears. You basically keep posting the one and same message, and that message is called help me fix my hair when it's obviously heat damaged beyond repair. There's nothing that can be done other than you growing out the damage.

[Hollyfire3]

I agree with you -and don't think for a second that I don't - but I also think that sometimes you have to take the 'concrit' approach along with the tough love one.

Which is, yeah - tell them what they're doing wrong, but also tell them what they're doing right - or give them something they can continue to work on, you know?

/random and off topic.:eyebrows:

I understand and give tough love, but I also personally need a little hope in my approaches, just to make me feel a bit better about any situation (off topic but true)

[Hollyfire3]

Accept that you have heat damage. Accept that there's no miracle cure or product. Accept that it's not going to get better by trying all these different things... etc. ... :)

Basically, I agree with what a few others have posted. I too have tried to talk to you about this in the past a little bit when I said that advice to take it easy on the products and on overloading your hair with different things seems to be falling on deaf ears. You basically keep posting the one and same message, and that message is called help me fix my hair when it's obviously heat damaged beyond repair. There's nothing that can be done other than you growing out the damage.

What can I say, I'm stubborn beyond repair also, and for that I appoligize, I know everyone is trying to help, it is just so hard for me to listen because I am just...stubborn, If I listen, I know I'll get somewhere good
Advice does not fall on deaf ears, I hear all of it, its just another matter to carry it all out

[DaniVerde]

I agree with you -and don't think for a second that I don't - but I also think that sometimes you have to take the 'concrit' approach along with the tough love one.

Which is, yeah - tell them what they're doing wrong, but also tell them what they're doing right - or give them something they can continue to work on, you know?

/random and off topic.:eyebrows:

I'm not sure what concrit means?

Although I do completely agree with you! That's why I have given possibly useful advice on this topic...on other threads! :)

[BeckyAH]

I am a fixer so obviously, it really hurts me when I CAN'T fix something, in life in general, it just gives me this no hope and doomed feeling I hate so much. Shedules do help, wonder why I never thought of them for my hair? I'm glad you did!

It takes someone really 'special' (read, neurotically organized) to schedule HAIR appointments. But fixing the schedule and planning helps me.

Mine right now looks like this:
Weekly:
MW - CWC, add leave in (mine's coconut oil) air dry, forget it. Wear down Tuesday and Thursdays (I was at night), up Monday, Friday - I try not to do the same style two days in a row.
Friday: Heavy oil or SMT (or whatever treatment I'm trying this month) overnight in a braid.
Saturday: wash out the treatment like Monday and Wednesday, but allow myself blow drying or heat styling (My hair can take this).

Second Sunday of the month:
Redo my deposit only dye. I may or may not save my blow drying/heat styling weekly allotment for here, that week. Depends on if I'm bleaching (was about every 3 months, but I'm kind of over it, now) or not. Bleached hair I obviously don't throw heat on immediately.

Last day (or Saturday) of the month:
Microtrim/dust the ends (usually), assess the products I've been using for the previous month, do a length check. Pick out my new treatment or product to test NEXT month, if I haven't already got one. I troll around youtube to learn at least one new updo or styling option (like heat free curling or whatever for wash nights). This is also the day I clean out the product graveyard, and reoganize my hair toys, and go buy anything I need for next month's treatment/new thing (if I'm doing one) and dye for next month.

I'm always playing with my hair - in my head. My hands, however, are usually OFF it. And since I'm always doing something, or feel like I am, I can't really go bonky about it.

...and making the schedule's almost as much fun as following it. I mentioned kind of neurotically organized, right?

[BeckyAH]

I'm not sure what concrit means?

Although I do completely agree with you! That's why I have given possibly useful advice on this topic...on other threads! :)

Ah, sorry. Too much time writing and editing - constructive criticism. Just means 'you're doing this wrong, but you're doing this thing right, and here's how you can make yourself better', rather than just 'you're wrong'.

I haven't followed other threads, though.

[DaniVerde]

Ah, sorry. Too much time writing and editing - constructive criticism. Just means 'you're doing this wrong, but you're doing this thing right, and here's how you can make yourself better', rather than just 'you're wrong'.

I haven't followed other threads, though.

Ah, constructive criticism...that term I know :) English isn't my first language (or 2nd or 3rd :p ), so sometimes certain abbreviations tend to throw me off! :) /end hijack

[Hollyfire3]

It takes someone really 'special' (read, neurotically organized) to schedule HAIR appointments. But fixing the schedule and planning helps me.

Mine right now looks like this:
Weekly:
MW - CWC, add leave in (mine's coconut oil) air dry, forget it. Wear down Tuesday and Thursdays (I was at night), up Monday, Friday - I try not to do the same style two days in a row.
Friday: Heavy oil or SMT (or whatever treatment I'm trying this month) overnight in a braid.
Saturday: wash out the treatment like Monday and Wednesday, but allow myself blow drying or heat styling (My hair can take this).

Second Sunday of the month:
Redo my deposit only dye. I may or may not save my blow drying/heat styling weekly allotment for here, that week. Depends on if I'm bleaching (was about every 3 months, but I'm kind of over it, now) or not. Bleached hair I obviously don't throw heat on immediately.

Last day (or Saturday) of the month:
Microtrim/dust the ends (usually), assess the products I've been using for the previous month, do a length check. Pick out my new treatment or product to test NEXT month, if I haven't already got one. I troll around youtube to learn at least one new updo or styling option (like heat free curling or whatever for wash nights). This is also the day I clean out the product graveyard, and reoganize my hair toys, and go buy anything I need for next month's treatment/new thing (if I'm doing one) and dye for next month.

I'm always playing with my hair - in my head. My hands, however, are usually OFF it. And since I'm always doing something, or feel like I am, I can't really go bonky about it.

...and making the schedule's almost as much fun as following it. I mentioned kind of neurotically organized, right?

I'm neurotic:D A bit of a neat freak..this will work for me! Not this schedule, but my own. See, now my problem is this...I clarified and over washed yesterday, I want to wash tonight but my hair feels bare and weird from clarifying, in this instence, would it be best to just wash and condition or CWC where would this little change fit into a schedule like this?

[BeckyAH]

I'm neurotic:D A bit of a neat freak..this will work for me! Not this schedule, but my own. See, now my problem is this...I clarified and over washed yesterday, I want to wash tonight but my hair feels bare and weird from clarifying, in this instence, would it be best to just wash and condition or CWC where would this little change fit into a schedule like this?


I'd CWC (or whatever will work for your hair) and count today as day 1. Work it into the schedule if you can. Or just leave it until Monday and have your schedule start on a Monday. Whatever works for you, there. :cheese:

[Hollyfire3]

I'd CWC (or whatever will work for your hair) and count today as day 1. Work it into the schedule if you can. Or just leave it until Monday and have your schedule start on a Monday. Whatever works for you, there. :cheese:
I'll CWC tonight, then see how it goes, if it sucked, I'll just regular wash from then on, starting the schedule on Monday and say today was just an off day, then revisit CWC if i need a (schedule permitied) experiment for the month (instead of a new DT perhaps)

[Bedhead]

Hey Hollyfire!

I get it. I've just gone through 4 years of figuring it out. After two years of altering my food for health reasons, the third year was spent trying different shampoos and drying methods, because not everything was better. The matting and tangles were gone, but the damage wasn't and my hair was falling out, not by the handful, but a significant amount. I ended up on WO last April, only to find out my water was a huge culprit, even when filtered, although it helped some. So I went NW/SO, which meant, no playing with products just waiting until my hair transitioned and if it didn't? then what? I was getting pretty scared, and still had a section of damaged hair to deal with, and I soooo wanted to do something, anything that would magically make it all better.

It's been almost 4 months now that I've been NW/SO. I've been microtrimming every 6 weeks or so, and my hair is doing well (I think). I only have two more inches of damage to get rid of, and in the meantime, I'm playing with my hair other ways.

So my advice to you is take the upsetting advice and breathe, then have fun! Focus on learning your protective 'dos. One thing you can do to help discover new 'dos is to join the Hair game! http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=14380 I just discovered it today. Just mention you're needing protective suggestions. If you don't want to do that look around for more buns and braided up'dos. I personally know of 6 buns you can do, ex. cinnabun, pencil bun, loose bun, braided bun (A twirled braid version) and more!

Good luck to you!!! :)

[lapushka]

I'll CWC tonight, then see how it goes, if it sucked, I'll just regular wash from then on, starting the schedule on Monday and say today was just an off day, then revisit CWC if i need a (schedule permitied) experiment for the month (instead of a new DT perhaps)

Errr. No. Trying CWC doesn't mean washing like that once, then abandoning it if it doesn't work the first time round (that's what we've been telling you also). It means you stick with it for a while. Hair doesn't always react the same way to the same thing. That's why you need to stick with a change in routine for a while.

[Bedhead]

And a while, to me, means 3 weeks. In fact, I usually go 3 months before I decide it's not working.

[afu]

i definitly support the ideas of having a specific plan (I too am list kind of person! hehe) and also learning to experiment with your hair in other ways. I was never much of an updo fan (i grow my hair because i like it loose) but recently ive been diverting my attention to learning new braids and buns rather than experimenting with products. After last week with the keratin shampoo and over night coconut treatment I kind of fell off the 'stick to what works' plan, but it has just reminded me that i really need to maintain my self control!

My personal schedule isn't quite like BeckyAHs, i divide mine into sections instead of days. but here it is:

WASH: no more than every second day. CO with a basic, runny, cone-free conditioner. No second stage condition.
POST-WASH: apply a little regular conditioner as a leave in followed by coconut oil
DRY: airdry length, blow dry fringe on cold setting - no more quick fix with the straighteners
TREATMENTS: no long deep treatments. Can try an SMT in week 2 if hair has settled down again, leave no more than 15mins
STYLE: Braid at night, wear up at least half of the week. Only use hairstick for updos. (except night braid)
CUT: s&d whenever
COLOUR: touch up bleach highlight roots no more than every 8 weeks, pre-treat with coconut oil

Good luck with your scheduled month :)

[Mina17]

If I understand correctly, yesterday you clarified then shampooed twice and are going to shampoo again tonight. Shampoo is drying. I think you are shampooing way too much. I agree with the recommendation to cut down on your shampooing to twice a week, three times at most.

[Hollyfire3]

Errr. No. Trying CWC doesn't mean washing like that once, then abandoning it if it doesn't work the first time round (that's what we've been telling you also). It means you stick with it for a while. Hair doesn't always react the same way to the same thing. That's why you need to stick with a change in routine for a while.

That makes sense sadly, I ended up just washing and conditioning, I reconsidered it and realized that trying something new is a bad idea (before I read this and realized you said the same thing). I was only going to cwc to try and reduce the stripped feeling on my hair from clarifying. Instead, I opted to use my conditioner as a sort of DT (leaving it on for a while) because its not something new so no harm done.

[Hollyfire3]

If I understand correctly, yesterday you clarified then shampooed twice and are going to shampoo again tonight. Shampoo is drying. I think you are shampooing way too much. I agree with the recommendation to cut down on your shampooing to twice a week, three times at most.

The only problem is that I have been shampooing daily for a while, (I used to go every 2nd or even 3rd day) and now my hair has adjusted to once daily. I only started once daily washing because I could not STAND not having ANYTHING work and I couldn't bare to be stuck with horrible hair for more than one day. Bad habit on my part, I plan on working on it when I get a basic routine and products, but why not work on it now? Maybe I should stretch washes instead of just trying new products (not that i plan to try ANYTHING new for a WHILE!)

[Hollyfire3]

i definitly support the ideas of having a specific plan (I too am list kind of person! hehe) and also learning to experiment with your hair in other ways. I was never much of an updo fan (i grow my hair because i like it loose) but recently ive been diverting my attention to learning new braids and buns rather than experimenting with products. After last week with the keratin shampoo and over night coconut treatment I kind of fell off the 'stick to what works' plan, but it has just reminded me that i really need to maintain my self control!

My personal schedule isn't quite like BeckyAHs, i divide mine into sections instead of days. but here it is:

WASH: no more than every second day. CO with a basic, runny, cone-free conditioner. No second stage condition.
POST-WASH: apply a little regular conditioner as a leave in followed by coconut oil
DRY: airdry length, blow dry fringe on cold setting - no more quick fix with the straighteners
TREATMENTS: no long deep treatments. Can try an SMT in week 2 if hair has settled down again, leave no more than 15mins
STYLE: Braid at night, wear up at least half of the week. Only use hairstick for updos. (except night braid)
CUT: s&d whenever
COLOUR: touch up bleach highlight roots no more than every 8 weeks, pre-treat with coconut oil

Good luck with your scheduled month :)

Oh wow, I really need to make a list then focus on updos or something instead of changing stuff, just follow the schedule, it sounds so easy...not so much when your havinf a TERRIBLE hair day.

[Mina17]

Yes, I would try to stretch washes. Do it gradually if necessary starting with every other day, then every third after awhile.

I think it has already been suggested, but if you can't stand the way your hair looks, keep it in an updo so you don't see it and won't be tempted to do anything to it. If you must have an obsession (and I do too :)) look into getting some pretty things to decorate your hair with so you'll enjoy putting it up. Ficcares, flexis, hair sticks, forks, decorative pins, etc.

[lapushka]

If you must have an obsession (and I do too :)) look into getting some pretty things to decorate your hair with so you'll enjoy putting it up. Ficcares, flexis, hair sticks, forks, decorative pins, etc.

Now there's an obsession! :D

[Mina17]

Now there's an obsession! :D

Yup ;). It worked for me. I don't have time to worry over my hair anymore cause I'm too busy obsessing over hair toys. :D