Close to cutting my 30" fine, greasy, tangly, annoying hair!!! (pics) Rant/help

[Saeth]

I love having long hair and can't imagine having short, but right now I'm at my wits end with my particular hair. I feel overwhelmed by the problems/dislikes of it.

Since Jan/Feb, I have been trimming monthly to maintain my length. I have fine, hennaed hair. It is thin on the ends from no trimming for a year but also heavy shedding (which I've given up on solving entirely!) and learning how to look after it.

I suffer from super greasy issues. 24hrs my bangs are stringy the whole way through, it looks wet. My hair looks seperated and nasty. I started stretching washes to 48 hours. It got better but not enough. 2 Months into the whole effort I began washing daily again. The coco powder wasn't working, and the smell made me sick and I still felt socially unacceptable. I stopped diluting the shampoo too (that was stupid). Well, 2 days into this and my hair looks more greasy. I could rage! I feel like I could kick myself. I'm back to diluted gentle shampoos each day. I'll have to see what it does. I just want to feel my hair/bangs looks clean! But no, it looks like this in less than 24hrs

http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/Invicta-Shay/Picture113400x306.jpg

My hair is also knotting around the scalp/nape/shoulder area a lot recently. I don't know why at all (perhaps where it's growing out and getting thicker?) but I'm concerned it's leading to damage. It's already tangly as hell on the ends, and ratty looking (that's why I'm maintaining, to see if it improves the thinner hemline). I try to be gentle but something always catches violently somewhere. It takes ages to comb it out.

On top of that I hate how my hair looks with buns. They're small puny buns that look more like doorknobs on my hair. And try as I might I can't seem to locate them higher up on my scalp either. I can never do them first time, it's always too crooked, loose, frumpy looking, whatever. But that doesn't matter so much now: I lost my brand new flexi-8 to an industrial strength ride-on-lawn mower this week. Angry would be an understatement.

I try really hard to look after my hair. I oil it. I comb it gently with a horn comb, hardly ever brush it, and even then only when detangled and with a BBB. I wash it once with a natural oil shampoo, condition it. It is washed in filtered water and it's never left with running water over it expect when to rinse, never blow dried and tied back each night, faithfully. It is now worn up most of the time and most definitely if there's even a breeze outside.

I love the colour, it feels soft and healthy, I love the length but I feel so darned frustrated towards it. I just feel it doesn't look good on the bangs and ends, and I don't know whether it's just my hair type (my ends look like someone has got sections of the hair and rolled them between their fingers for a bit then let go) or whether it'll be something fixed somewhat by a year of maintenance. But surely, I should be feeling more positive about it? I feel it looks ratty when down, puny when in a bun and boring in a braid! I'm sure I should feel more stylish, elegant, whatever. But right now I'm not. I feel like it hates me, and I hate it. I'm useless at hair styles and incredibly limited. I've even contemplated getting a wig as I love long hair but not mine! :rolleyes: Even my mum doesn't want me to cut it!

It looks lovely when just combed but give it 30 mins... I suppose I'd like some honest, hair-loving opinions about whether I look unkempt or not. I can't trust other opinions really.

Thanks for reading my rant!

ETA: Just the pics I promised yesterday but decided to post them on the first page instead of the last. Top is brushed, 2nd is when it's left to do its thang, third is the ends, and is it just me or does some of those look suspiciously look like it's curling?! And four is just a general condition shot.

http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/Invicta-Shay/064215x400.jpg
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/Invicta-Shay/071199x400-1.jpg
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/Invicta-Shay/081300x400.jpg
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/Invicta-Shay/050RE230x400.jpg

[nobeltonya]

Maybe too much oil? Since your hair is thin, try using as few products as possible on it?

[newbeginning]

I'd be really angry and frustrated if I had to deal with all your problems too. I'm going out on a limb here but could it be buildup that doesn't wash out with regular shampoo? Would clarifying help? I'm not sure if it would help but would CWC help with your oily scalp and help protect your ends and help with tangles? I have an oily scalp (though not as much as you) and I find CWC helps. I really hope you find a solution because you sound so frustrated.

[Hollyfire3]

I would really have to see pictures to decide, but maybe try clarifying then wash every day if you have to, why stretch washes if it doesn't work right? I say ditch some of the oil, it might be weighing your hair down? I also say don't cut it just yet, I'm sure there is a solution! Hugs to you!

[florenonite]

Does your shampoo have sulfates in it? I find it's the only thing that actually cleans my hair and scalp.

I'd also recommend keeping the oil away from your scalp and just oiling the length.

[XcaliburGirl]

Sorry you are unhappy with your hair.

My first thought is to suggest growing out the bangs and clipping or pinning them away from your face in the mean time. That way it will stay away from natural oils from your forehead. Also, try to avoid touching your hair too much, since your hands might be adding oils.

I wash my hair daily because I like to. That's what works for me and my hair. If washing daily causes you problems, then by all means, stretch washes. However, if it helps and you need to, don't feel bad about it. Same thing with buns. If you don't like to wear buns, don't feel like you have to wear a bun.

You mention that you oil your hair. Could it be that the oil is too heavy for your fine hair?

I hope you figure out how to be happy with your hair.

[Saeth]

I only apply oil to the lengths as 1) Haven't the patience to try get it out of my roots 2) As a number of you have said, it's simply too much.

I've tried CWC in the past but my hair just went lank as hell on it and then I shed like mad. I went through a stage in Feb where I washed with sulfate shampoo. No difference on hair quality, and indeed it made the greasies even worse (it was baby shampoo) and made me itch (yay! lol). Also I tried not oiling for a bit, my ends revolted badly. They sure as hell need it.

I will get a photo of the ends brushed and unbrushed when the light is good tomorrow. Here it's pitch black and my house is evil for photos!

ETA: I have used coconut and EVOO on the length. And managed to train myself out of touching my hair a lot too. I had thought of growing out my fringe but I have a stupidly high forehead, it's not flattering at all.

[CarpeDM]

WOW I could have written this myself. Your hair looks just like mine in the front and I have the same oily hair issues so I can truly feel your pain. Can I make a suggestion? Are you entirely married to the idea of bangs? Because I grew mine out and it helped out my oily bang situation a lot! I still have an oily scalp but it isn't nearly as bad as when I had bangs. Some of us just have to wash daily and there isn't a way around it, BUT I would not cut it if I were you. It is always a challenge to live with the more "challenging hair", but I would not give up, maybe just take a rest from oiling for now.

[CarpeDM]

I just wanted to add one more thing after seeing your last post. I was always told by my hairdressers that because of my larger forehead I should ALWAYS have bangs. So for years I had bangs, but I was tired of the same issues you had, so I decided to grow them out. Once I did that I got so many compliments from people saying I looked SO much better without bangs, so don't be afraid if you have a larger forehead to grow them out. You might just like it :)

[afu]

Saeth I know where you're coming from with the bangs issue - i have a blunt fringe too because i look awful without, but it's defintly the most annoying part of my hair!

What I do is i first clarified with a normal shampoo with a bit of baking soda in it, then i started to CO daily/every two days, using dry shampoo on my fringe if needed. The CO settled my scalp down so i began to produce less oil and can now stretch washes if i want to (but i like washing my hair). At first i thought CO would be awful on fine hair but it hasn't weighed mine down since i only use a one stage wash with a light conditioner and rinse really well. Maybe worth a try?

Some people have also said that just applying a bit of their normal conditioner to the lengths when damp is enough to keep hair manageable and soft without using oil (i personally use both conditoner left in and coconut oil, but i can probably get away with a bit more oil being a curly)

[lapushka]

My hair's washed every 5, sometimes 6 days. Normally it needs to be washed twice a week to look decent. I do need harsh cleansers and have learned that some people just cannot use gentle shampoos (me included).

Maybe try a harsher cleanser.

If you solve this, maybe all the other issues won't seem as bad. I know greasy hair can be tough.

[pink.sara]

I think you have really pretty hair!

Also when I had a fringe I had to wash it every day, even now I can only wear my hair down the day I wash it and must tie it up on day two as it's greasy by then.

Also from 25 inches to about 35 (apl to waist) I had tangles up underneath from the weight of my hair rubbing against my clothes. When it's longer it doesn't move so much so tangles less.

My only real suggestions I have are sulphate shampoo, blotting your forehead during the day to help with bangs absorbing grease. Keeping oils or conditioner away from hair above your ears and puling it to one side over a shoulder to help with the tangles.

I hope you don't find the cons of long hair outweigh the pros as it may behave a bit better when it's longer, plus it's very pretty:)

[ladylowtide]

I see we have a somewhat similar hair type. I also henna my hair. I have mostly medium hair, but I have a lot of very fine hair around my hair line, and bangs, and at my nape. I also used to get a dreadful greasy scalp in 48 hours. Also, I am prone to tangles! Big time!

What I have done to help these issues:

1) I grew out my bangs, as soon as they got long enough to pin back, and to style them off my face completely this problem went away completely for me.
2) First thing I tried when coming to LHC, was CWC. My tangly ends always needed conditioner, and I knew that hell could freeze over before I could get CO to work for my hair type. I use a cone free conditioner drenched on the length first, then a sls free shampoo (diluted significantly in mug, I pour it on my scalp (it gets to be about the constancy of sudsy water)) I let it run through the length but concentrated it around the oiliest part of my head, some times it takes a two mugs of water, each with a small dot of shampoo mixed in. Then I soak the ends with the conditioner again and I finger comb all of my tangles while the ends are covered with conditioner, as the water is running through them, so by the time I am done detangling, the conditioner has rinsed out enough. I also lightly condition my nape because I tend to get tangles there too.
3) Making sure your henna isn't too acidic.
I had to rework my henna recipe because it was drying my hair out and causing more tangles. Instead of another type of acid, I use maybe two table spoons of red wine vinegar, and instead of warm water I use luke rooibos tea. this has made my hair less dry then using a lemon henna mix. (I also use filtered water to steep the tea, that has helped too)
Then I rinse the henna out with conditioner only, because doing a full head henna application tends to get rid of any grease.
4) I stretched my washes to once every 5 to 7 days. Mostly 7 days. This has made the most improvement for me overall, in terms of greasiness. I will level with you, the first two and half weeks I looked absolutely dreadful. beyond dreadful perhaps. But the first time I washed after my scalp had adjusted, I was amazed to see that it took almost 5 days for my scalp to start looking dirty. Now if you is hanging in your face, touching your skin oils, it is gonna look dirty fast no matter how long you stretch your washes and stick with it. Since I do suffer from tangles I find that if I am in the shower on a non wash day, lets say for shaving my legs, I will condition just the very ends of my hair and give it a gentle water rinse. That seems to help tremendously.
5) Keep going with the horn comb, I love mine, it has helped a lot!

Anyways that was really long, so if you go to the end, there is a cheese for you -> :cheese:

I hope maybe some of these ideas work for you, good luck almost hair twin!

[TessieAnn]

My bangs looked like yours, due to extremely oily face and hair for a long time. In high school I finally gave up and grew out my bangs. It took a while to get used to not having bangs to hide under, but I've never looked back from that decision.

My suggestion would be to do a trim back to healthy hair then do frequent microtrims as it grows again. Having trimmed ends makes so much difference in the tangle-factor.

Ditch the oil and see if that makes a difference.

People with thick, fluffy hair describe oils sinking right in. I don't understand this because my strands are very fine and not very porous. There's no place for the oil to go! It just sits on the surface looking ... oily.

I find the VO5 conditioners Strawberry Cream and Blackberry Sage to be great detanglers and light enough to rinse clean. I start my shower with a gentle shampoo to cleanse then cover all hair with condish, run a wide tooth comb or pick through to detangle and clip up until the end. I take out the clip and use the comb to glide through my hair with the conditioner to detangle, then rinse, using the force of the shower water as I comb through again.

When done, don't scrub your hair dry, just gently press the towel on your hair, not disturbing the strands. Go through your hair with the comb one more time for a final detangle and a bit of lifting at the roots. Then, if you can, just let it dry.

Our type of hair usually dries rather quickly--one of the advantages! My hair is dry in less than half an hour--thicker hair can take hours.

If you want to use oil, do a hot oil treatment, or even better--an SMT--no more than once a week.

Be really gentle when combing your hair throughout the day. Use your fingers to gently detangle first, before combing carefully. Remember the antique lace rule!

I really think the sebum on very oily scalps is different--perhaps more "liquid"--than that on heads of thicker, coarser, usually curlier hair. There's no "working it down the length" because it easily flows down the strands until the next wash. It needs different treatment than the standard that works for other hair types.

Good luck!

[ravenreed]

I find that CO washing has cut down on my greasies. I still wash every other day, but I can get to the second day without being too ashamed to leave the house. I don't oil much, and only right before I CO. When I oil my ends before bed, the oil wicks up my coarse hair and makes my roots look greasier overnight. So, I don't do that unless I know a washing is happening soon. I think that might be your first problem.

Also, I haven't yet found a natural shampoo or conditioner that did good things to my hair. As in, natural shampoos and conditioners turned my hair into a tangled, snarly mass of angry hair. Maybe you need to try something less natural?

I often use spray dry shampoos to get through the second day. I didn't find that cocoa worked at all for my hair. I have had some good luck with silk powder as a dry shampoo, but I have to be careful because it does increase my tangles if it gets on the length. I use a fluffy face brush to brush it along my bangs and part area and then BBB the residue away. Speaking of BBB's, that may be making your greasiness worse. When I use my BBB on clean hair, it increases the oily look, even if I have just washed my BBB. I now only use my BBB to brush out any dry shampoos.

Don't be afraid to try something different. Just because it might not be LHC approved doesn't mean that it is necessarily bad for your particular hair type. Also, it sounds like you may need to brush or comb your hair more. I brush my hair at least three times a day and mine is UP most of the time these days. Every time I have to take mine down, I brush it out. I always brush in the morning and night. If a tangle stays in my hair, it is there for good, and leads to more tangles. I find a tangle teaser gentle enough that I can even use it on wet hair, but my hair is pretty tough.

It sounds like you may have unreasonable expectations of what your hair should be. Find things that you do like about it. I have seen some members with very fine hair post adorable buns. Yes, they are wee, tiny buns, but lovely nonetheless. In fact, I think the diminutive size increases the SQUEE factor. I don't know that every bun needs to be large to be pretty.

My hair has thinned a lot over the years, and I am okay with that. I couldn't have hair as long as mine is now with really thick hair. It is heavy enough as it is. There are things about my hair type that drive me nuts, such as the fact that my hair wants to tangle and dread if I don't comb it often enough. However, it is also resilient to various abuses I subject it to. Find the pluses of your hair type and enjoy them. Perhaps work on one hairstyle until you feel comfortable with it. I hope something in there helps.

[Deborah]

I know this is blasphemous to the general advice given on LHC, but your hair obviously does not NEED any oil added; you produce plenty yourself. Skip the oiling and go very light on the conditioning, and your hair will most likely be just fine.

A high school friend of mine with very oily hair found that if she gently washed JUST her bangs each morning, her hair did very well and could look good every day. I myself would vote for no bangs for you, but that's just my opinion. I don't think oily skin and bangs play well with each other. Your face shape does not look like one that needs bangs to be attractive anyway.

[Laylah]

Here's some suggestions:
- do a small trim: it'll make a world of difference on tangling and "velcro ends."
- instead of appyling oil, leave in a bit of light conditioner. After you wash your hair, smooth some condish between your palms and run through the hair, more at the ends, less in the middle, and none above chin/shoulder length.
- try not to manipulate the hair around your scalp too much - when brushing or combing, focus mainly on the length to keep from distributing sebum on your hair.
- for greasy bangs and scalp, try brushing in a little baby powder. I have black hair and do this and it doesn't show. If you have dark hair, put in a very small amount at a time- like a pea sized amount, rubbed on your hands and "scrunch" it in. As the powder absorbs oil it will disappear and not be white. Brush it out when you're done.

[spidermom]

Try CW with diluted shampoo. Sometimes my hair gets very limp in the hot summer weather, so I skip the second conditioning.

[afu]

also on the teeny bun issue, i have the same problem. I found that the best bun for me is a sock bun as it holds my hair really well as well as giving it some false thickness

[MsBubbles]

:grouphug: Hello! We are just about hair twins. Some good suggestions so far. And just to overwhelm you even more, here are mine :):

- I agree with those who have suggested to grow out your fringe. I haven't had one in decades and am glad I grew them out. With our hair type they just cling to the forehead, sweeping up all the oil along the way!

- Did you get your thyroid and iron levels checked? I am hypothyroid. It's a very common condition, unfortunately. These two things might be a culprit to your shedding, but they are fixable. Otherwise check your diet...have you cut out entire food groups? Are you vegan or do you have food intolerances?

- I am a washing-stretch failure! But I'm ok with that. I wash my scalp hair every morning before work. When your hair is long enough to do scalp washes (probably BSL), that might provide a solution, so you're not constantly getting your ends wet just because your scalp is a mess.

- I'd give up oiling for now too.

- I can't use the same comb on my scalp that I have used to comb coconut oiled ends! Maybe you could track which one you use for your scalp, and which one for the oiled ends.

- Check us out in the fine/thin hair thread! You will find kindred spirits, as well as some possible solutions to your hair problems. We typically can't follow the usual LHC staples, such as stretching washes, heavy oils, boar bristle brushes, many updos (since our buns are all puny), etc.

[islandboo]

Folks have offered lots of great ideas but I have a couple suggestions as well: Coconut and olive oils are very heavy oils - perhaps you could try using lighter oils like camellia or argan? Also I do CWC but I add a couple drops of tea tree oil to the first C (VO5) which helps keep my scalp happy. That might help? (And I think CWC might be good for you since like attracts like - conditioner first does a much better job of getting out my heavy oilings than shampoo does)

[jacqueline101]

I'd say do away with the oil and use fewer products.

[ravenreed]

That is a really good point. I clean my brushes all the time, but having one just for oiling is brilliant. BBB's never worked for me either. I don't think it is necessarily a fine haired problem.



:grouphug: Hello! We are just about hair twins. Some good suggestions so far. And just to overwhelm you even more, here are mine :):

- I agree with those who have suggested to grow out your fringe. I haven't had one in decades and am glad I grew them out. With our hair type they just cling to the forehead, sweeping up all the oil along the way!

- Did you get your thyroid and iron levels checked? I am hypothyroid. It's a very common condition, unfortunately. These two things might be a culprit to your shedding, but they are fixable. Otherwise check your diet...have you cut out entire food groups? Are you vegan or do you have food intolerances?

- I am a washing-stretch failure! But I'm ok with that. I wash my scalp hair every morning before work. When your hair is long enough to do scalp washes (probably BSL), that might provide a solution, so you're not constantly getting your ends wet just because your scalp is a mess.

- I'd give up oiling for now too.

- I can't use the same comb on my scalp that I have used to comb coconut oiled ends! Maybe you could track which one you use for your scalp, and which one for the oiled ends.

- Check us out in the fine/thin hair thread! You will find kindred spirits, as well as some possible solutions to your hair problems. We typically can't follow the usual LHC staples, such as stretching washes, heavy oils, boar bristle brushes, many updos (since our buns are all puny), etc.

[Vanilla]

I would also try to keep your bangs away from your face as much as possible (in the overnight too) I also have an oily scalp, and I can only stretch washes by keeping my hair up or braided as much as possible.

A French/Dutch braid works really well for me to keep my hair off my face, and tucks in all of the layers too.

[DoubleCrowned]

You might try rinsing your hair longer, and then rinsing with very cold water to finish.

Also, wearing face powder on your forehead would delay the skin oils from touching your fringe.

[swearnsue]

When I was younger, your age, my forehead would get so oily it made my bangs oily. So many good suggestions on this thread! Don't give up yet on your hair, I think you are getting close to finding a solution.

[nerdymomma]

Hugs to you! I'm sorry you are frustrated. I understand how frustrating it is to deal with some of those things, especially fine hair and oily bangs.

Even when my length is nice and not needing a wash, if I've worn my bangs down they need a wash or to be pinned back. I've got a huge forehead, thin hair and used to have a greasy scalp. I think somewhere along the way my hormones balanced a bit and my scalp stopped being such an oil slick.

I have a large forhead and I understand you wanting to keep the fringe. What about trying a bangs-only wash? When my length is still good but I don't want to pin up my greasy bangs, I use a shower cap and cover all my hair but the fringe. A teensy bit of shampoo and a good scrub gives me perfect bangs.

Also - I know this is an LHC taboo, but I find that blowing just my bangs dry, using a round brush, keeps them up off my skin and they stay nicer and I don't look stringy by evening. If a blowdryer isn't an option for you, perhaps wrapping your damp hair around one or two large curlers might help put a bit of arch.

A tiny bit of mineral makeup powder on the forehead also helps keep the stringiness at bay.

[Idjit]

ETA: Sorry nerdymomma said the same thing about bangs only washes. Except I just tie all of my hair back in some way, with a clip or hair tie, or whatever, and then just wash my bangs in the sink. Piece of cake, takes less than a minute.

Is there any reason you can't wash just your bangs daily if that is the main thing getting greasy? I find that if my bangs (side bangs, now, growing out) look fresh and clean then I can go longer without washing my hair.

Also, you may want to try a lighter oil. Personally, I like apricot.

[MsBubbles]

That is a really good point. I clean my brushes all the time, but having one just for oiling is brilliant. BBB's never worked for me either. I don't think it is necessarily a fine haired problem.

:o Thanks Ravenreed! It was one of those D'oh! moments when I realized what I was doing.

I love how this thread is attracting so many f/i/ii's! We definitely feel your pain, OP.

[long&blonde]

I totally relate.
I have fine hair too.
It looks its best, I've found, the less products I use on it.
Shampoo, condition, fructis leave in, light application.
I've not tried diluting regular conditioners as leave ins, suspect they'd give the oily look you talk about. Even a "clean gel" on my hair? No good. Totally gives the oily look. I'm best with shampoo,condition,leave in frctis(only so I can comb out tangles), and I do use cones. With my fine 2c hair, too tangly without is what I find.
When I had bangs,they were difficult. I did wash,and blowdry then. That was years ago. If you love your bangs, I'd cut products, blow dry only the bangs,air dry rest. I'd oil night before a shampoo morning,only. No oil wearing out. Have tried:gives me the same dark oily look you show. While a thick haired coworker olive oiled her hair daily;it looked gorgeous. I just caught my ponytail in my purse buckle,really disgusting myself. But then I looked in the mirror, 5 days since wash, finger combing helps me too;not brushing or combing;it looks nicer,doesn't mess with the waviness that way. I thought it looks nice. Even the ends. I'm style challenged too. Get so jealous at the beautiful buns on here. Mine isn't specially small, but its just as soon as I get it coiled and a hairstick through it? Success, in my book. "Anonymous Bun." With grateful all thumbs bun head just thankful its not falling down. Your mum saying "Don't cut." Says the world. I get that from true friends too. Even when I'm disgusted. I'd try shampoo,condition,leavein, comb once for your part, blow bangs dry,air dry rest:then just fingercomb til next shampoo. Oil night before next shampoo. Look at it daily,end of day out,after doing above. You'll be expecting not to like it(if you're like me), in my case at least;it proves a very pleasant surprize.

[Micayla47]

Saeth, i'm happy you chose to post here rather than going straight to scissors. i won't give you any more product suggestions because i think all the other posts have given excellent ideas. i just wanted to give you hair support. your hair is beautiful. keep experimenting. :magic:

[HumanBean]

I also want to advocate for bangs/fringe only washes as I also do this. I can stretch the length to once a week, but often my bangs can't make it that long. I also blow dry my bangs with a round brush like someone else mentioned. And I straighten them. And sometimes I tease them.

Basically I break all the traditional rules with bangs. But I figure they are bangs right? I'm not trying to grow them long!

I only oil my very ends, not the bangs or length. And I only oil before a wash.

And I CWC.

[share801]

Growing out bangs was the smartest thing I"ve done to make dealing with my fine hair easier. I'm not sure if it looks "better" to anyone else but it is about 100 times easier for me to deal.

[Bagginslover]

I don't think cutting your hair will help your problems at all, it will still be greasy and stringy, but you won't be able to tie it up to hide it ;)

Wash bangs daily- I used to when I had them, pre-LHC, then stretch washes for the rest of your hair.

Sock bun is your friend- my hair isn't thin, but I was shocked at the head-eating size of my sock bun the first time I tried one, they really are fantastic! It'll help with the tangly-ness too.

Aussie leave-in spray-I have super greasy hair too, but this stuff makes my hair super shiny, and doesn't seem to make it any more greasy at all, which is a massive thing for me and my hair! Maybe it'll do the same for you? Makes detangling a breeze!

Batiste dry shampoo- the brunette one has little to no scent, and works invisibly in my henna-ed hair, it'll help you stretch washes, and keep the stringyness out of your fringe.

You'll get there, I'm sure (((hugs)))

[Kwongdzu]

I also want to advocate for bangs/fringe only washes as I also do this. I can stretch the length to once a week, but often my bangs can't make it that long. I also blow dry my bangs with a round brush like someone else mentioned. And I straighten them. And sometimes I tease them.

Basically I break all the traditional rules with bangs. But I figure they are bangs right? I'm not trying to grow them long!

I only oil my very ends, not the bangs or length. And I only oil before a wash.

And I CWC.


I second this --I've decided to grow my bangs out too, even though I love them, but with fine hair, I have to wash daily and blow dry for them to look decent through the day.

I've also started using oil on my ends just once a week or so--though I don't henna, and your ends might need it more...

Hang in there :)

[Dars]

I also want to advocate for bangs/fringe only washes as I also do this. I can stretch the length to once a week, but often my bangs can't make it that long. I also blow dry my bangs with a round brush like someone else mentioned. And I straighten them. And sometimes I tease them.

Basically I break all the traditional rules with bangs. But I figure they are bangs right? I'm not trying to grow them long!
Agreed 100%! I wash my fringe pretty much daily if I leave the house. I also use heat on them and sometimes hairspray. I could wash my fringe twice a day, everyday and not care because it's only the fringe and it doesn't take a lot of effort.

[bouclée]

I must admit I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has already been suggested, but you might want to try washing your scalp with green clay (protect your length with CO because it can be drying). It might help to regulate your scalp.
Greasy hair might also be related to your diet. Sugar, refined cereals and "bad" fats can definitively give you greasier hair.

Hope it helps somewhat...

[Amethyste]

Oh Saeth :( I want to give you a big hug!!
Perhaps, try to change your oil... try baby oil, only the night before you are ready to wash your hair. my hair is fine too (not long like yours though), and if i do too much, it just gets terrible.
I used to use coconut oil and my hair HATES it. Maybe you need to try many different things to find what works for you. I have a bang and it used to get greasy the same day as when I washed too and it was frustrating. One day that I was off, I went for a long walk on a very windy morning and when I came back home, my hair was so greasy!! i then realized that wind and my hair do not get along! so when I go for a walk and it is windy, I pin my hair down or clip it.

I tried the CWC and my hair didn't like it at all. What works for me is W-W-C-C in COOL water. i use either the SIMPLY U shampoo and condish or the giovanni SAS line. comb my hair through and to only the ends of my hair, i rub a small amount of baby oil in it. The cool shot button is taped down on my dryer so that it is the only setting I use on my hair. I noticed that if i dry my hair or wash my hair with warm water, it gets greasy really fast. you might want to try to dry your hair with a fan only, it might help you a little bit...

Just don't cut it yet... Have you tried caruso rollers? you might get nice waves and body and like your hair a little more? I am sorry that you are frustrated...

[MsBubbles]

Greasy hair might also be related to your diet. Sugar, refined cereals and "bad" fats can definitively give you greasier hair.
.

Good point! And along those lines, I find a more acidic diet makes my scalp greasier. So I try to eat a more alkaline diet (basically as paleo as possible). So fats don't matter, but wheaty, starchy carbs do. But that's just me.

[jojo]

also be careful how hot your water is when washing your hair, hotter water encourages the hair follicles to produce more sebum. Id also just save the oil for the very ends, your hair may also benefit from a lighter conditioner and definitely not on the fringe area, when i had a fringe i never used conditioner there or it was greasy pretty quick!

[Scarlett brooke]

Dry shampoo? You can buy it in colours now so you don't have the White powdery look! Try squeezing lemon juice in with your shampoo or look for products with lemon in. cuts through grease. Could try a side fringe instead of. Full one?

[summergreen]

Oh I feel for you, so much good advice here though, Im sure something will help.

Just wanted to add, a friend had this problem and it was partly caused by (long term) medication - so if you have any regular prescribed meds you may want to check with your GP (but keep taking them in the meantime of course!!)

[Saeth]

I added to pics to my first post instead, in hindsight. I'll responded later once I'm fed and watered!

[florenonite]

I don't think it's nearly as bad as you think it is. I would grow out the bangs, as they seem to be a major problem in terms of greasiness. I'd also trim an inch or two at the end, but that's personal opinion.

[amanda_the_tall]

oh the joy of fine hairs :D
i also used to have bangs, and i do tend to have an oily/oilier scalp. i'd agree with most everyone else, with bangs and them touching your face, you might want to try to wash/use dry shampoo or grow them out. it is super irritating having oily and fine hair, i even have bald spots in the middle of my crown (scarring as a baby) that makes it look even worse :/ also, it might be non-lhc standard, but blow drying my hair (if i'm going to sleep) makes it less oily. if i go to sleep with a wet head, it'll be greasy in the morning, no matter what i wash with. the less you touch it, the less oily it will get as well. hopefully we'll learn more as people respond! *sorry i wasn't much help*

[cfreya]

Also - I know this is an LHC taboo, but I find that blowing just my bangs dry, using a round brush, keeps them up off my skin and they stay nicer and I don't look stringy by evening. If a blowdryer isn't an option for you, perhaps wrapping your damp hair around one or two large curlers might help put a bit of arch.



I haven't managed to read the whole thread but wanted to second this

I have very fine hair and a high forehead and the only way I can stretch washes and keep my hair looking acceptable is wear the rest of my hair up, wash my fringe over the sink using a cup of water lol and blow dry with a round brush

My fringe grows so fast it has to be trimmed pretty much weekly anyway so I figure the damage from the blowdryer doesnt really matter

[Saeth]

So general summary to all the lovely responses! The bold bits are just to help pick out the solutions posted here, it was too much to respond personally to everyone but I appreciate many may not want to read all this.

****

I'm not oiling more than once a week and lately, not even that. I did go through a phase of pre-oiling my hair before each shampoo. This was just the length though, below the ears. But I stopped doing that in case I was over doing moisture levels.

My hair product use is pretty light: Shampoo with cool water (which is sulfate free, and after much experimenting is what my hair and scalp likes best), conditioner. That's it. I soak the ends in condish while I shampoo with a dilute solution, then apply condish to ends again and rinse/detangle gently. Wrap it in a towel while I dress, then let it out, comb it gently again and press it with the towel to soak some of the water away then leave it to dry.

I don't think it is build up, it's been a consistent problem regardless of what's going on with my routine. I think it's really just my hair type and/or where I don't have a blunt hemline from shedding.

Currently I'm maintaining to even the hemline out. My hairdresser last year cut the sides shorter than the middle. I'm trying to grow this out. I'd really like a blunt bottom but I'm not sure this is possible. I've planned a year to give it the time to try and reach this. So currently it's 1/2" trim each month. I can't face lopping off inches, I got upset cutting off 1/2" too much recently! I could technically lop it off to where it would be blunt but then I'd be back to about 24inches, what I was last year in Jan. No thanks.

I think I'll try growing out my bangs a bit, enough to clip back in a "soft" fashion. Nothing to lose in giving this a try, I can always cut them if I feel it makes me want to hide my face because I'm conscious of my huge forehead. Thanks for this suggestion.

It's not so much my scalp I'm unhappy with as much as the ends. When it's been shampooed, it looks lovely for a while and I'm happy with it, ends aside.

I've tried other shampoos, the non natural ones. Everything from baby shampoo to normal and pricey ones. My scalp revolts, I find it makes the grease thicker (eeew I know!) and also my scalp can no longer take it, it starts to itch like crazy.

I will try my current conditioner left on the ends and see what happens. And also the blotting thing, I didn't think of that but if I can be disciplined about it, it may make the difference. Nor did I think of the face powder... it's so obvious!

I did wonder about perhaps waist being an awkward length, I know hair can go through strange phases like that. I'm not sure I want to grow it currently, I promised myself a year of maintaining to see what happens to hemline, tangles and if it thickens up at the bottom.

Regarding the BBB I only use it on the ends to smooth them as I find it gives it more slip. And yes, my scalp hates it if I bring it anywhere near!

I could use a dry shampoo but I think mentally I need to wash my hair every 24-34hrs. I'm done with stretching, I've tried it once at one month and two months. So I'll skip that. And yes, the coco didn't work for long enough. It's like it couldn't compete with my frying pan head lol

Henna mixtures I only use water now, acid plays havoc with my hair!

I've been checked for thyroid problems, all clear! I'm also clear of any meds.

I eat a very healthy diet, Paleo/Primal. I walk everyday and get a good dose of sunshine as I result. So I don't think it's that, however I am besieged by chronic stress and have been for a long time. I know stress can influence greasiness.

I have washed my bangs by themselves a few times, but within a few hours they're gross again. It's very frustrating. It's like all the oil just falls down and dirties it all. Maybe I should build a dam :rolleyes:

I suppose in the end some of this is just coming to accept that my hair may not have the thick blunt hemline and fat buns of other ladies here. As I said I like my long hair and feel it's part of my identity, maybe I should change my expectations of it. And then I worry if I wash my hair every day or want to detangle/comb it a lot to maintain its look, I'll damage it.

I've tried clay and shampoo bars, they make my hair really dull, rough and knotted even with acid rinses. I used clay once and I literally could not comb it, it was utter madness.

I'll look into the caruso rollers, thanks!

I just wonder if those ratty ends are just my hair type or caused by damage. I do my best to be gentle with it, but there's definitely dots on the ends of the hair and that. If I could get thickness at the bottom, I'd be happier with it. Looking back at a photo in June when my hair is BSL you can see even then the bottom is "piecey" a little bit. I am beginning to really think this is just my type. My hair had been cut less than 6 months ago.

As you can see, it's not for lack of trying! Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I have a lot to think about.

[Saeth]

Just an update. I cut my hair back to 28" and (accidently lol) gave it a U shaped hemline then straightened it out a bit. It's much less tangly and does look better. I'm also trying coney condish (Ice Shine by Pantene). Before I trimmed today it definitely made the tangles less "violent" and I've learnt running my hands over and down my length for a bit helps smooth it out in preparation for detangling. I also bought the new leave in by Pantene "Aqua Light" and I'm very impressed.

I will wait a bit for things to catch up and thicken up a bit more but I feel a mixture of a bit happier with my hair but a bit sad. Perhaps because I feel I'm sorta close back to what I was early last year. But oh well, I'll focus on the positive!

[Silverbrumby]

Leave conditioner on your hair for 30 minutes before washing to help get rid of build up. I'm sorry you're having issues with your hair and hope you find something that works.

[Silverbrumby]

oops, just read the update. Glad things are improving.

[linnepinne]

I think your hair is lovely! I think we have similar hairtypes.

I've also had issues with greasy hair and I just have to share what has worked for me. I have tried almost everything and every tip on this board to try and solve my oily scalp. But what has worked for me is two things:

1. Just accepting that I will never be one of those gals who can pull off only washing once a week. No way no how. My hair (and scalp) acctually benefits from getting wet and washed often, but most important is to always condition when I get my hair wet. Always. My fine hair really needs the extra moisture. Only using water for example, was extremely drying for my hair.

2. Switching to a high quality sulphate free shampoo (and lovely thick cone free hair mask). I use the line from Kevin Murphy. It's a bit pricey, but the products last a long time especially for my not-so-thick hair, and I highly reccomend them!. I used to have to wash about every 24 hours, but now I can stretch as long as 4 days. Just from switching to these products! To me, that is no less than a miracle. Feel free to PM me if you want to know the exact name of the products I use.

Good luck!

Good luck!

[DancingQueen]

[FONT="Georgia"]
Since Jan/Feb, I have been trimming monthly to maintain my length. I have fine, hennaed hair. It is thin on the ends from no trimming for a year but also heavy shedding (which I've given up on solving entirely!) and learning how to look after it.

...

I suffer from super greasy issues. 24hrs my bangs are stringy the whole way through, it looks wet. My hair looks seperated and nasty. I started stretching washes to 48 hours. It got better but not enough.

...

My hair is also knotting around the scalp/nape/shoulder area a lot recently. ... It's already tangly as hell on the ends, and ratty looking (that's why I'm maintaining, to see if it improves the thinner hemline). I try to be gentle but something always catches violently somewhere. It takes ages to comb it out.

... never blow dried and tied back each night, faithfully.


ETA: Just the pics I promised yesterday but decided to post them on the first page instead of the last. Top is brushed, 2nd is when it's left to do its thang, third is the ends, and is it just me or does some of those look suspiciously look like it's curling?! And four is just a general condition shot.


It could be, that you are using too much oil, or don't wash it out good enough. Sometimes, you need to shampoo twice to get everything out.

I would guess that the biggest culprit it the year without cutting it. My ends look horrible after a few months, not to mention a whole year! Your problems with tangles could also be explained this way; hair that is very thin/damaged tends to tangle more than healthy hair, and is more difficult to comb out.

I would probably stop tying it back at night as well. I find that it works better for me to just flip it over the pillow when I sleep. You will get used to it in no time.

Your hair is beautiful, but personally, I would probably cut off the damaged ends. I think that would help some of your problems. I have around 5 cm I need to cut off right now, and they do bother me.

I would also keep stretching washes. Even though it is hard, that is better for your hair. You could just wet it every other day, instead of using shampoo and conditioner.

Hope you figure it out. :)

[LadyHazel]

When you say baby shampoo that's probably why it didn't work, baby shampoo hasn't any strong sulfates and it is alkaline- hair is acidic (don't make me go into the biochemistry of hair!) So no wonder why your hair didn't look better and your scalp was itchy, I believe baby shampoo is just that- baby shampoo, not for mature scalps/hair. You would have to acidify it.

[Saeth]

Thank you Silver, I will keep this in mind for my CO experiment!

It's sad being at BSL again but I'm hoping perhaps this year I'll be able to grow it once again :)

[heidi w.]

From the sound of things, you're basically doing most things correctly.

I noted a few things that you might not want to hear about. But in the interest that this may prove helpful, perhaps....so here goes.....

I am against henna. Most people know that. My reason is quite basic. Most people swear by how shiny and whatnot their hair is. But I have learned that eventually henna'd hair has a problem uptaking and accepting conditioner. Conditioner just works less and less well as one continues to henna. From the sounds of it, it might be that your conditioner is starting to work less effectively for you. Maybe? This is why hairdressers overall do not recommend using henna. This is what they're taught in beauty school. I've witnessed what that hair looks like eventually, and it's not very pretty. And most end up so frustrated they cut their hair off. Sad to go through all that effort and some expense to wind up having to cut hair off.

I have to go back and re-read your initial post. Hang on. There was something else, but I forgot it, so need to refresh my mind.

...ok, back...You wrote, "I suffer from super greasy issues."
You went on and explained how in a very short period of time your hair appears greasy, or at least the bangs do. I couldn't figure out if your scalp hair gets greasy quickly too. If it does, might I suggest you might have Seborrheic Dermatitus which is diagnosable from a very experienced dermatologist. I had my diagnosis this way, and have been suffering from years from this condition. This is a particularly nasty form of dandruff meaning that one's hair gets fairly gunky within so many days or overnight. I have finally found my solution, but it took a long time to find my answer. I didn't read about anything else other than your bangs get gunky fairly quickly. Per hair wash, I have around 1-2 days of freedom from gunk, and that's it. There's no known cure to this condition. There's only Managing the Symptoms that one can do. Some people have it but much less significantly than I do. I have met others who have it and it's marked by fairly extreme itchiness, little bumps about the head (often these re-occur in the same location), the bumps can appear somewhat pimple-like, and often, when picked they merely weep clear to slightly yellowish fluid, and continue to itch. And then they get more itchy as the little wound heels. Then a skin forms and it tightens and itches more. Often the flakes that are produced are fairly tightly adhered to a single strand of hair and do not slough off as they would in the case of dandruff. I've had to take up tweezers to kind of lift this little sheet of skin. So, for me, keeping the scalp skin clean really matters.

Regarding the knotting at the nape of the neck, are you sleeping on a satin pillowcase or some similar sort of slippery fabric? That may help. It does me. When I sleep at other people's house, I end up with even more knots or tangles than at home because I generally sleep on a satin pillowcase.

Yes, your ends are showing some desire to wave. That's ok. I wouldn't fret about that.
I'm focused on trying to help prevent you from cutting your hair back. I don't think that's the answer, really. If you re-grow you may well hit this wall again, so figure out the problem and try and work on the actual problem might be the better solution; otherwise you face hitting this wall again, cutting, and you sort of then never learn what to do differently.

That's my 2cents anyway. I hope it's of some help, but I bet it's not a whole lot of help. I also may be too late to help.
heidi w.

heidi w.

[barely.there]

my hubby (a long hair) has a pretty oily scalp. here are the things we have changed in the last year to help him:

-use a generous amount of shampoo on the scalp and his nape, and then conditioner ONLY on the ends/some length.

-the baby fine hairs around his ears actually curl because they have so much oil on them. If he had bangs they would be pretty nasty looking. I agree with the others when they suggest growing out your bangs.

-he does not use any special/extra oil on his hair at all.

-He uses a BBB almost everyday, and that seems to help distribute the sebum so its not just sitting on his scalp. it also cleans his hair of dust and other crap so it tangles less.

- DIET - when he eats really fatty/processed foods, his skin breaks out with acne and his hair gets greasier than normal. A reminder of discernment between the GOOD fats and the BAD fats.

-he never wears his hair in a bun. his signature is a low ponytail or braid.

-we both sleep on satin pillow cases. this has helped my hair be less velcroy, and his nape hairs rarely tangle now...they used to be really bad before.

with this, he's been able to stretch washes from every day, to a couple times a week.

I like the idea that you are trimming to maintain your length. thats a great idea for your hair especially. it should help with the tangles.

Edit: just saw that you cut your hair to BSL. That was probably a good move. hubby's hair was at mid-back/waist ish, and now its just below APL. I've cut a lot of length off his hair this last year, and its really helped tremendously with the tangles....especially considering he had just let it grow for 3 years without any trims. :p

[heidi w.]

It could be, that you are using too much oil, or don't wash it out good enough. Sometimes, you need to shampoo twice to get everything out.

I would guess that the biggest culprit it the year without cutting it. My ends look horrible after a few months, not to mention a whole year! Your problems with tangles could also be explained this way; hair that is very thin/damaged tends to tangle more than healthy hair, and is more difficult to comb out.

I would probably stop tying it back at night as well. I find that it works better for me to just flip it over the pillow when I sleep. You will get used to it in no time.

Your hair is beautiful, but personally, I would probably cut off the damaged ends. I think that would help some of your problems. I have around 5 cm I need to cut off right now, and they do bother me.

I would also keep stretching washes. Even though it is hard, that is better for your hair. You could just wet it every other day, instead of using shampoo and conditioner.

Hope you figure it out. :)

I would agree that you might benefit from a bit of a trim....I would not tie the hair back as you mentioned, either. I would let the hair be loose, or very loosely braid the hair and toss it over the pillow. Or if a bump bugs you in the night at the back of the head, try pigtail braids, loosely......

On stretching hair washes. It's nice to hope for going a week without hair washing, but a whole boatload of people simply can't do that. I only wash once a week because my funds are short right now and I only have so much shampoo.

Everyone should do at least 2 applications of shampoo in a given hair wash. The first application breaks the surface tension (and doesn't lather very much) and the second, maybe slightly less shampoo, that's the real hair washing/scalp cleansing that goes on.
I do 4 applications of shampoo, with less and less shampoo each application.

We have to wash our hair. I myself, sometimes use scalp washing to help me not to have to wait all day for my hair to dry. This gets me through the work week very well, when I'm gainfully employed. Right now I'm not but I still occasionally use scalp washes to get me through the week. Summer to winter my hair needs more or less washing. More in summer; far less in winter. Now that I live in an area where it snows and is quite cold during winter......I used to live in semi-arid California, Silicon Valley.

I don't recommend stretching hair washing much beyond 4 days. That's about the tipping point to pure gunkiness that so many will experience. Hair washing, in my opinion, is a misnomer. We don't need to wash the hair itself so much as do this hygienic practice simply to keep the scalp skin clean. Also, if one goes beyond and too far into the gunky hair region, one can risk shedding a little bit more hair than need be because bacteria can enter the root under the skin and in this way cause a perfectly healthy hair strand to shed. So don't be too eager to avoid washing your hair. If you're not washing daily, that's fine. Most people don't need to wash their hair daily. As we grow older, and hormones wane, we can maybe in that time of life wash our hair far less frequently, such as once a week. Everything just doesn't stay the same our whole life.

heidi w.

[Katze]

Saeth, I could have written your original post. We have many of the same issues, I've been here since 2006, and I am so, so frustrated with hair that never looks good.

From my POV you have two things going for your hair - it's long already, and it doesn't look like you have too much frizz (though I wonder if you might not secretly be more wavy than you think).

SMTs usually fix any hair issue I've been having, though nothing gets rid of the piecy, ratty, unkempt, socially-unacceptable look you mention except washing more.


Does your shampoo have sulfates in it? I find it's the only thing that actually cleans my hair and scalp.



This. Although I am currently a big WO fan (it gives my hair the weight it would not have otherwise) I do need a sulfate wash every 10 days or so.

SMTs help, and calm my scalp.

Leave-in, but ONLY from the ears down. NO oil or scalp massage or scritching, except before a wash when I want a tidy updo.

Updos - bleh. I wear the ones that look flattering - braided dos on dirty days when I can slick my hair down with oil and gel; deliberately messy ones the rest of the time. Buns look like crap on me and with my lifestyle (cyclist, young kid, low maintenance) I am not willing to learn how to wrap my hair around a cut up sock that could likely slide off my head at the wrong moment (like when teaching!).

I am still struggling to accept my stringy, greasy-or-flyaway, unhealthy-looking hair, and to get it to BSL length after a big shed.

So at least you are not alone. :)

[juliaxena]

I can't really add to th advice given and please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see your hair wanting to curl to be honest. It looks like it is doing what mine is doing too, ends thinning because of damage. I have recently cut around 2 inches off and will be doing that again in 3 months. It is hard to lose lenght but in the end it is worth it.

[julierockhead]

You and my daughter could be hair twins!

Increasing her dietary healthy fat intake helped with greasy skin and scalp issues.
Dry shampoo on bangs immediately after washing and air drying was a good preventative. Dry shampoo for red hair can be found on etsy pretty cheap.
Satin pillowcase and putting your hair in a loose bun on top of your head for sleep should cut down tangles at the nape and length.
Lighter oils, and a weekly overnight scalp oiling taken off with co-washing, also helped her oily scalp balance itself, although it took a while for that to happen.
SMT for regular CO-washing.
Explore the subject of protein overload and moisture overload, and evaluate your hair carefully, here is a good article, just scroll down a bit. http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html#.T7_4OK6veRm

Shedding can be a medical concern, you need to nail down why that is happening. Thyroid issues and excessive or deficient vitamin/mineral intake can be culprits, among other things.

Unless you are using henna on your lengths every time you henna, your hair should not be so coated with henna that conditioner won't work. Really, nothing is going to coat your hair so completely and microscopically that conditioner can't work. Henna can be drying, but that doesn't seem to be your concern. If henna does ever dry your hair out, there are many many recipes for henna mixtures to address that.

[Saeth]

DancingQueen: I agree, I think the no trims effort didn't pay off in the end, especially in light of the fact that I was still learning how to look after my hair. That's why in the end I cut so much off though I'm gutted to be back at BSL again, right back to where I was mid June last year :sad

I've tried flipping my hair over a pillow but find I'm too restless and it turns into a ball of knots. I tie it back in either a bun or braid (over shoulder or back), loose unless I want defined braid waves. This is either using flexi-8 (which I killed, oops) or a silicon tie, cut off in the morning.

I'm going back to stretching washes to every 48hrs. Got a new dry shampoo and it seems to work well enough. We'll see how it goes.

Barely.there: Ty for the tips, I'm on a very good diet which has helped me somewhat. It would be nice to not have to worry about hair washing so much but only time will tell!

Lady: Ty for the heads up on the baby shampoo. I'll keep it in mind.

Heidi: It is only this week I've heard that for some people henna can be too coating for the hair during long term use and lead to brittleness, dryness and breaking issues. This does alarm me as my long term goal is about hip/bcl. I recently swapped condish to a coney one and it's blasting through the knots much better, and since lopping off some of the damage even more so. I've heard enough to start considering not continuing but then I'll have to grow that out too and I'll look like a mess for 2 1/2 years at my grow rate, but saying that I don't want to get even further down the road and face the decision. I'll have to think on it some more. I know some ladies have used it for years with no problems and others are the opposite. I guess I need to decide what is more important for me. I don't like my natural hair colour very much though.

Yes my scalp gets greasy too. Same for my skin. In a few hours my makeup starts to slide about my face. It's bad enough I often don't wear it for this reason alone. I don't suffer from dandruff or any visible skin ickiness though, so I'm not sure if it is the Seborrheic Dermatitus? I only find I get itchies and dandruff from using chemical laden shampoos or condish, especially with coco betaine in it, or however the hell it is is called.

I just ordered a satin pillowcase even though I hate the feel :lol:

I should have been more clear on my first post, I don't tie my hair up/back as much as pigtail it, braid it loosely, or flexi-8 it into a loose bun. I use silicone hair ties to loosely hold the braid and cut it out each morning to save pulling on my hair and tangles.

Certainly for now I categorically cannot go beyond 48 hours without washes and that's using a dry shampoo on the bangs too. I've found though that one diluted shampoo gets my hair clean enough without forcing the oil production into overdrive.

Katze: I frizz up with braids, on the ends xD It all looks a bit fluffy. And all the short ones go poofy sometimes too so I can't say I'm entirely frizz free. I do have suspicions that my hair may have some slight wave to it as it seems to increase as the length does and no matter what I do with it, these little waves are always there! I think I may retype with the help of this forum at some point.

Funny you should mention washing more equals less of a ratty look. I hadn't actually considered that. I'll keep this in mind, ty. At least I'm not the only one having this battle out there!

Juliaxena: I thought that too regarding losing the length but it being worth it. Fact is I wasn't happy with the ends and decided to benefit my hair and lose some length. Either way I'm frustrated or sad. I'll maintain it until it thickens way up and carefully grow.

All: So my plan of attack is trying to get CO washing to work for me. I have new hair ties that have no rough spots at all on them. A satin pillowcase on the way, a new coney condish, a leave in. I'll wear my hair up more than down (and continue with putting it up a night) and certainly when any excessive movement is at risk and I'll try an oiling of the length every week and frequent micro trims. Hopefully I'll see some progress. Don't ask me about the henna atm, I've no idea. And if all that doesn't work, I give up!

It's given me a lot to think about, thank you all once more.

[heidi w.]

It is different feel-wise to sleep on a satin pillowcase. I have a friend who uses a polyester pillowcase instead. That works for her best. I got a king sized pillowcase so the length of my hair can be coiled or piled on top of the excess fabric, beyond the pillow itself. (I have a regular sized pillow covered in a king-sized pillowcase. I even put a slip cover on the pillow to be further away from getting yellowy buildup of oil on the pillow itself.) But, you'll get used to it.

Most people that I've encountered who henna, have for the most part ended up in the end, a number of years hence from henna-ing ended up with dry, brittle, hard to manage hair, tangly, dryish....all that kind of thing.

I hope it is better now, and continues to get better. Good luck.
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I basically have straight hair, as you seem to have. Mine is even straighter and finer than yours. I plan to do a how I wash my hair video. If you have greasiness issues on your scalp, you may want to do a modified kind of CO hair wash where you use some shampoo on your head and very little on your length, and THEN mostly CO the length and little to no shampoo on the length. If you have a tendency for an oily scalp, applying conditioner and oils to the scalp skin can lead to some further problems of having to wash more frequently. Just FYI to think about.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

At shorter lengths I had more problems with hair tangling during the night when I merely left my hair loose. I can now more successfully do that because the weight of my length basically stays put almost all night long with all the tossing and turning I do each night. I awake with minimal tangles in tow.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I have the same issue when I wear makeup. I actually feel like I'm suffocating it becomes so stifling which is why my makeup is quite minimal, eyebrow pencil, mascara and lipstick. That's it. No foundation. I also do not do well with all this moisture application stuff on the skin. I finally found a great skin care aesthecian and for a while was going for facials once a month. It really helped me to see her. I have a problem where I can get these weirdo kind of bumps or cysts, maybe, and she named the condition but I can't recall what the name was....She's the first person who ever spoke to me about it, and had a reliable method of treating the problem. She was the first to not call it acne, even though it looks a bit like acne. In the summer humidity of the midwest, I get more of these weirdo kinds of bumps. I consider it an outgrowth of my Seborrheic Dermatitus. By day's end in the heat I can be all plugged up because of allergies, and all these bumps can have popped up, and they both drive me nuts! I can get pin acne, super small acne bits around my hairline if I don't wash my hair soon enough because the Seborrheic Dermatitus just kind of flows from the source (of the Nile, that makes me laugh for some reason, so to speak....) out on to facial skin. I can end up with acne on one side of my face if I end up sleeping on my hair, even. I have to watch it.

That's my life.
heidi w.

[dulce]

I love your smooth frizz free shiny hair!If it was mine I'd just trim my ends a bit then keep microtrimming till the ends thicken up over time.You have beautiful hair!

[GrowingGlory]

You might like to try Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree Shampoo and/or Conditioner. They really absorb excess sebum all day.
Also, a BBB with light colored bristles advertised as Gentler might agree with your scalp and hair. For me, daily brushing has resulted in well-moisturized length and ends and no more excess sebum on my hair near the scalp.
HTH!
And you do still have beautiful hair!

[firegypsy]

this may be weird, but I'm a primal gal and have been for over a decade. I would never post this, but I was talking to a dear friend the other day who is also primal and we found that we have the same experience. So I'm throwing it out in case you do too.

For BOTH of us, excess dietary fat shows up on our skin/scalp. This didn't really happen before I went primal and ate completely clean. But now, it does! So.....do you ever notice on days that you eat high fat that you have more issues the day or two after?

It might be something to consider. I think it's a HEALTHY way to process things out, and it's not a problem with the diet IMO. But it may help a tad to watch the fat intake is all. Just another thing to consider.

[Lissandria]

You have beautiful hair! I just love it. :flower: There is some very good advice on this thread.

I just have one thing to say re: henna- slightly OT and this is nothing against anybody and their views. I have heard that henna is thought to be bad for hair (other than by hairdressers who don't know much about natural hair care at all) by a few people on this community like Heidi and others. My own personal view is that I have really fine hair like you (although drier and im a curly) and I find henna to give me the protein and strength that my hair needs and is severely lacking. While others may be right re henna being too damaging/causing brittleness in the long term- I think perhaps finer hair types are less likely to encounter this type of damage as they are already lacking in protein to begin with. The "coat" henna puts on the hair is temporary, the longer lasting effect of henna is that it binds to the hair inside the hair shaft. Just something to think about- if you like your henna and it's not causing you too many issues right now, that is. :)

I also really recommend mineral oil for dry tangly, velcro ends if you haven't tried it already. I agree with the others in this thread that say to lay off the oils for a while as your hair is already quite oily- but mineral oil is quite light and has saved my ends and the ends on many others here. Of course I would only recommend a teeny drop just on the very, very ends of your hair. Of course YMMV.

I would love to see pics of your new length and happy growing! :blossom:

[truepeacenik]

On oiling, I rub a few drops between my palms and grasp the ends that fit in that length. Once it is mostly absorbed, I add it to my dreadlet factory at th enape, but you likely wouldn't have to.

I also find if I am more hands off, and let it be, I have fewer problems.

[julierockhead]

On oiling, I rub a few drops between my palms and grasp the ends that fit in that length. Once it is mostly absorbed, I add it to my dreadlet factory at th enape, but you likely wouldn't have to.

I also find if I am more hands off, and let it be, I have fewer problems.

Dreadlet factory! :laugh:

[Immera]

On the small bun problem, I personally find a sock bun adds too much weight. I'm picky like that.

Instead I do a braided one stick bun started from a french or dutch braid. I stick the stick through the augmented part of the braid, allowing that to look like my first coil, and wrap the length around the perimeter. Sometimes it stays on its own, without a ponytail holder to tie off the braid, or I use a small clip.

Here is a video from Habioku.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnEBuIk9GuI&feature=plcp

She also has a paranda thread here, where you braid yarn into your hair to beef up braids and protect the ends.

As far as products, I'd suggest maybe you have done overload with trying things. If you really tried all of those things, that's a lot of change for your scalp and hair.

I think silicone based products will help. the one week I tried to to silicone-free was terrible. I'm glad it works for many of the people here, but it wasn't for me.
I wouldn't worry so much about stretching washes. If you can awesome. I have found after a few days my scalp is nasty and my ends are dry. I know the people here think you should be able to reach four days, but the month it would take to get my shampoo-addicted scalp to put up with it, I wouldn't look professional enough to go to work. Also, I get little pimples on my hairline the few times I tried it, again not for me.

[Katze]

Katze: I frizz up with braids, on the ends xD It all looks a bit fluffy. And all the short ones go poofy sometimes too so I can't say I'm entirely frizz free. I do have suspicions that my hair may have some slight wave to it as it seems to increase as the length does and no matter what I do with it, these little waves are always there! I think I may retype with the help of this forum at some point.

Funny you should mention washing more equals less of a ratty look. I hadn't actually considered that. I'll keep this in mind, ty. At least I'm not the only one having this battle out there!



You're welcome. Really, if you wash gently, and clarify/deep clean as needed, and treat your hair gently, it should be OK to wash it as much as it needs.

I also wanted to second the idea of 'cones. My scalp doesn't like them (and gets crustier and itchier) but my hair does, and they help get that polished look.

It does sound like you might be wavier than you think you are. Also, hair changes over your lifetime - I started out life with straight hair, and now have spiral ringlets at my nape.

Truly, I am the owner of probably THE most naturally stringy, unruly, non-growing, ugly, unkempt hair here. It isn't easy to have a difficult hairtype; it isn't always easy even to have fine hair! But keep it up, be kind to it and yourself.

[kitekats]

I have the same problem, but it was from hair dying and because my hair is naturally thin and fragile structured, especially at the ends, hard to comb too. Maybe that's just the way they are and you shouldn't cut them and henna them (bad reaction to henna?), just leave them completely natural and get a shampoo for greasy hair, that should work.

[akilina]

Don't chop it all off pleaseee!!! It's gorgeous and it really helps me to see a picture because my hair is very thin and I feel it would never get as long as yours.
Maybe some sort of trim would help you..Not a small trim either but so you would still have long hair possibly a good 3 or 4 inch trim. :)
My plans are to grow to waist ( if I ever will get there) and then chop to BSL.

[Saeth]

In the end I cut off about.... 4 inches. Which is not as drastic as the short bob I was considering when I first posted. It's got rid of most of the damage and the hemline does look much better, especially when freshly brushed. Pic is below with "working" hair, it's not preened/brushed/combed at all.

http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab181/Invicta-Shay/012294x600.jpg

Now that the damage is out and I'm using cones (yay, my hair has so much more slip!) I've really come to realise it's just my hair type to hang in... pieces? Something like that. Also, the waves are still there! I thought they had been cut out. You can't see them in the pic but especially when I lean forward it's very obvious. I think I need retyping.

I tried CO for a few days. I shed on an epic scale. Bad bad bad. Now I just do scalp washes and lift my length up out the way so it doesn't get shampoo on it, then CO the length and so far my scalp and hair are happier.

It's a little frustrating to see that the trim hasn't solved some of the issues. However, I now have a fresh start. I'm now on "hardcore hair care mode" :lol:

I will maintain for as long as it is needed to even everything up to a full blunt hemline and then grow from there.

GrowingGlory: ty for the suggestion on the shampoo. I shall try it as it's not much more than the current one I use and it free of the chemicals I react to.

Firegypsy: My family went Primal four months ago, but I was having this issue even before then. Thanks for the heads up though!

Lissandria: That's my experience too with henna. It's added a lot of strength to my hair and has helped cut down the "shedding" as a result. I'll continue with it for now but I will certainly watch for any potential problems. Yes, I have been using MO on and off, though I have trouble judging amounts at times.

Immera: I'm terrible, I love the bun fillers you can get so I end up with a massive bun sticking out of my head :lol: feels like such a lie! I recently learned how to do the paranda and french pinless bun though waiting on a new hairstick. Product wise I've been pretty stable, it just sounds like a lot, but I'm talking about over a years of experimenting and such like, so it seems a little crazy. I think I am like you in that the natural condish's don't have enough "oomph" to slick my hair down, since going to cones on the ends I have much more slip.

Katze: I think the wave "issue" could be behind the way my hair hangs. I will have to look into it further I guess. Thanks for reminding me that hair does change though!

kitekats: I think you are right that it's just the way my hair is, as the photo shows. There is *no* damage in that hair but look at it. Has a mind of its own. It doesn't want to be sleek, it wants to look a bit wild.

Thanks once again everyone for all your help and support. Now I'm off to go write my new hair care plan!

[allycat]

Looks gorgeous, Saeth! I love it. Beautiful color too.

My hair is also the "piece-y" type. My parents used to CONSTANTLY yell at me to brush my hair and it didn't matter how much brushing I did, it looked exactly like yours in 5 minutes.

Anyway now I like it! Embrace the unbrushed look!

[firegypsy]

Looks gorgeous, Saeth! I love it. Beautiful color too.

My hair is also the "piece-y" type. My parents used to CONSTANTLY yell at me to brush my hair and it didn't matter how much brushing I did, it looked exactly like yours in 5 minutes.

Anyway now I like it! Embrace the unbrushed look!

mine too....so I just generally wear it up!

[akilina]

It looks great! :D

[spookyghost]

I just wanted to add one more thing after seeing your last post. I was always told by my hairdressers that because of my larger forehead I should ALWAYS have bangs. So for years I had bangs, but I was tired of the same issues you had, so I decided to grow them out. Once I did that I got so many compliments from people saying I looked SO much better without bangs, so don't be afraid if you have a larger forehead to grow them out. You might just like it :)

Me too! My hairdresser always told me that because of my forehead and my big nose, yes my big nose, that I should always have bangs! Well I got rid of her and grew my bangs out and I have never been happier. I will never have bangs again. So dont rule them out. You might just look awesome without bangs!;)

[firegypsy]

I'll admit to being bowled over by this! I LOVE larger foreheads with no bangs! I think it's a beautiful look. I always felt like I needed them to obscure my practically non-existent forehead.

In the end of course it's whatever makes you happy, but I'm shocked at the "rules" and people's apparent need to bombard you with them. People are weird and often without tact.

[Micayla47]

just saw the pics. you have beautiful shiny soft-looking hair!

[barely.there]

Your hair after chop really looks fantastic! I'm sure you are so much more happier with it now :)

[Saeth]

I am embracing my wild looking hair! I'm also growing out my bangs, they are starting to get a bit eye pokey.

Thank you for all the lovely comments :flowers: I'm much happier with it now, once I got over the initial shock of the trim. Originally was only going to take off 1/2 an inch haha. It does look better, for sure. So hopefully the hair journey continues to be positive from now on.

Oh and I learnt that where I've been diluting my shampoo, and then trying to work it into my scalp has been sending the greasies into overdrive. Last 2 washes I have use non diluted and it's lathered up without so much massaging involved. Result, much reduced greasies. I didn't feel the need to wash my hair again today. I should have figured that out sooner as my face is exactly the same. The more it's poked, prodded, rubbed, brushed with makeup brushes, the more it kicks up the oil production. Duh!

[Panth]

Looks like the trim did the job - it's looking very nice (not that it looked all that terrible to start with - fine, yes, but soft and shiny). As for the piece-y-ness - I'm an F and my hair does that all the time too. I think it is just how some people's hair likes to be.

Anywho, just thought I'd chuck a few more ideas into the mix.

Firstly, I see no one has addressed the nape-of-the-neck tangles. In my experience (both on my head and on others') these tangles often appear when you have the hemline or a layer reach collar length or 1-2" past collar length. It is particularly a problem with fine hair. The issue is simply that the ends are constantly rubbed against the collars of your clothes and flipped from the outside to the inside of your clothes and back again. It is managed with lots of conditioner or other detangling product plus gentle, patient and regular combing, preferably very regularly - how regularly depends on you and your hair, but up to several times a day. Also, use fingercombing (brushes and narrow-toothed combs tend to rip through the tangles, wide-toothed combs tend to miss tangles which then form mini-dreadlocks and have to be cut out if left unnoticed for too long). Always check at least once a day for tangles - use your hands, fingercombing, to be sure you don't miss any.

From looking at the second photo in your original first post, you may well have a layer of re-growth that is reaching this collar length. That would explain the sudden occurrence of nape tangles. It would also indicate that they are totally treatable and should stop happening in maybe 6 months once you gain a bit more length on that layer.

The second issue: shedding. I suggest it is the chronic stress you say you have. This is well known to cause shedding. So, my suggestion would be to attempt to decrease your stress levels - far easier said than done, I realise! However, as well as improving your hair this would result in massive improvements in both your current and long-term health, so is well worth attempting. Even a small reduction in stress would be beneficial.