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View Full Version : Can you help me figure out how to apply Ktani's methods to my hair?



Mochaccino
April 19th, 2012, 02:21 AM
I'm pretty new here. This is only my second thread, so hopefully you'll forgive me if some of my questions seem a little stupid. :oops: I'm hoping some of the more experienced members have a better grasp of Ktani's ideas and can clear up my confusion.

I was reading through Ktani's old posts and I noticed that there's a short list of methods/treatments that she recommends over and over again. I'm going to try to list the ones I'm interested in, one by one, along with any questions I have about each of them. I hope you ladies can help me come up with a routine based on Ktani's ideas.

I should probably also mention that I have VERY frizzy, coarse, shoulder-length, slightly wavy hair.

1) Catnip tea:
Of course this had to be number one, because Ktani is completely obsessed with it. I'm still not clear on how it works, but I can't resist giving it a try. What I want to know is whether or not it can be combined with some of the other things Ktani suggested. I don't think the tea would ever be problematic, but would it be redundant or unnecessary combined with these other methods? I'm also not sure how often to use catnip tea if I'm also using these other things on this list. Let me know if any of the following things would conflict with catnip tea.

2) Ktani's Movie Star Shampoo method:
This my favorite of Ktani's ideas. I'm super excited to try it. I still don't quite know what ratio of shampoo and coconut oil to use. I know it probably varies depending on hair type, but what's a good ratio to start with? Is Johnson's baby shampoo a good choice for this method? About how many washes does it take to reach saturation, or to see the full coconut oil "transformation"?

3)Movie Star Oiling method:
I just plan to use this after clarifying, but before I start the KMSSM in earnest. I hope it'll help to me to reach coconut oil saturation more quickly. Is there ever a reason to continue using this method after reaching saturation?

4) Clarifying:
I want to completely clarify my hair before beginning the other methods. I plan to just use regular old baby shampoo followed by baking soda and lemon juice rinses. What is the maximum number of washes it might take to completely clarify my hair? Is it best to let the rinses sit on your hair for a while before rinsing them out? I already did one clarifying rinse and I think it might have slightly affected my hair dye, but I'm not sure. I use dark brown drugstore dye. It is okay to use BS and lemon juice on dark color treated hair?

5) Mineral oil:
Is it ok to use both coconut oil and mineral oil? I plan to use a few drops of mineral oil on damp hair after the coconut oil wash. Ktani says that mineral oil does not build up on the hair, and does not block the absorption of lauric acid, so I assume that means it would be ok to use it in addition to the coconut oil, but I'm not sure. I think the mineral oil might have to be completely washed off before applying the coconut oil, which means I might have to wash my hair twice in a row. Is that right?

5) Lemon juice rinse:
Ktani claims that rinsing with diluted lemon juice after conditioning will almost completely eliminate frizz. I haven't had good results with acidic rinses in the past, but my hair was very damaged and I was using all the wrong products. How often should I use the rinse?
Should I use it after every wash because my hair is super frizzy?


Whew...I think that's all of it! Should I use all of these methods or just a few? Are any of them contradictory? Is there anything else I should add to my routine? Are there any other tips/suggestions you think I should know?

Thanks sooo much for the help :smooch:

Sadie
April 19th, 2012, 03:28 AM
* Subscribed * :yumm:

sazzie88
April 19th, 2012, 03:41 AM
These are all very good, ( not that I hav tried them all) I trust Ktani!

As these are all new to you I ould suggest trying one at a time to see how your hair plays along it might like some more than others :)

Mochaccino
April 19th, 2012, 03:57 AM
Sazzie, that's a good point, but I still wanna know if any of these conflict with one another, and I need a basic routine. I'm so much of a newbie I actually need to design a basic routine from scratch :oops:

Littlewing13
April 19th, 2012, 03:58 AM
I believe Ktani only clarified before starting her routine. The whole point of her routine was to avoid clarification all together afterwards. I think you can use baking soda in water/shampoo to clarify (rather than spending on extra shampoos).

Not sure if im up to date but I believe she shampooed, then did catnip rinse & I think that was it.
I know she used catnip for colour too, so she left it on for a while, like half hr before rinsing. If only using it for conditioning I think like 5min would suffice. She got catnip from petshop as she said it was fresher & got flowers & leaves & brewed like tea, strained & just poured cooled tea over hair in the shower. No additives.

Mineral oil was the only oil she used as it didn't form buildup. Just use a tiny bit at a time. easier to add than take away. You can use a mix of coconut & mineral, but you will get build up from coconut.

I haven't read anything by her regarding lemon juice but I may just not have come across it yet. Lemon can lighten hair & dry it out so just be careful with it. Might be better off trying ACV instead.

I don't personally use her routine (though I plan to try catnip at some point), just re-itterating some posts of hers I've read.

Shame she is no longer around to ask :(

Mirsha
April 19th, 2012, 04:07 AM
Sazzie, that's a good point, but I still wanna know if any of these conflict with one another, and I need a basic routine. I'm so much of a newbie I actually need to design a basic routine from scratch :oops:

If that's the case I really recommend these articles: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=39
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=65

The important thing being: getting a baseline and trying one thing at a time.

For your questions about Ktani's methods I have no answers, I don't follow her methods. :flower:

Littlewing13
April 19th, 2012, 04:07 AM
Also, your frizz should calm down more the longer your hair gets. Generally the weight pulls it down.

You would also probably prefer the "heavier" oils. Mineral oil is quite light. Coconut is heavier & will weigh hair down more.

Have you figured out the search function yet? you can do a search on each element of the routine & get more info.

And I highly recommend only trying one thing at a time & waiting at least 2 weeks in between. We all get excited about starting a whole new routine but not everyones hair reacts the same, sometimes what works for others can go drastically wrong for us. eg discolouration, breakage, shedding, dullness, excess frizz. If you jump in all at once then you don't know what has gone wrong. If you try one thing at a time you can then alter it.

Just my 2c. Hope it helps :) Happy growing!

Mochaccino
April 19th, 2012, 04:39 AM
Mirsha, thanks for the links :D

afu
April 19th, 2012, 05:17 AM
id be interested to know how you get on with catnip, i've still not got round to trying it. With the lemon juice rinse you should be ok (with regards to lightening or drying) if you use it at the right concentration. if you dilute it properly there is no reason why it should have a drying effect and as long as it's just a diluted rinse and not left to soak at high concentration you shouldn't see lightening either.

ktani's movie star shampoo method really didn't work for me, it just left my hair greasy looking and flat. I personally found that using a CO (conditioner only) regime for washing followed by coconut oil application to damp hair gave the best frizz control results and left my hair in the best condition.

If you are using coconut oil as a post wash application there shouldnt really be any need for mineral oil as well (from my experience).

Clarifying is not somethig which generally needs to be repeated often unless you are using a lot of cone containing products on your hair which will build up. build up from oils are normally easily removed with normal shampoo or conditioner. Many people just clarify before starting new regimes or every few weeks/months if they notice their hair would benefit.

Like the others, i would recommend adding things in gradually. Maybe start off with the most fundamental, such as the wash method. try it for a few weeks, if you're happy with the result add another element, if not change your approach.

Mochaccino
April 19th, 2012, 06:01 AM
Afu, Ktani claimed that the "movie star" wash works great for people who find normal oil application too greasy, but you experienced the exact opposite. :confused: When you applied the coconut oil after washing, did you apply it only to the ends? Maybe the problem is that Ktani's method doesn't allow people to avoid oiling their roots. I probably wouldn't have the same problem, since my hair is so dry, full, and thick. If I get too much greasiness, I'll try applying it to the ends only.

The real core of her method is avoiding all "coatings" that block the absorbtion of lauric acid. When you switched methods, did you choose a condish that fit her specifications, or did you give up on her method entirely?

Thanks for answering my question about the mineral oil, btw.

Siiri
April 19th, 2012, 08:18 AM
I've been using the oil shampoo method and mineral oil for a while, oil shampoo for a 1 and a half month. Apart from that I only use citric acid rinses after shampoo. I wash every other day and use the rinse and mineral oil after washing every time.

I believe the catnip may interfere with the oil shampoo, because you'd get build up from the catnip. Ktnai said she used normal shampoo, not oil shampoo, with the catnip. I haven't used it myself, but that's my understanding.

There is a list of shampoos that people have had success with with the oil shampoo method. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1369612&postcount=816
There are a lot more shampoos that can work, the one I'm using is not on the list, but it's not available outside Finland. You need to check the ingredients for conditioning and film forming ingredients. Baby shampoos are a bit problematic because they have coating ingredients. The real problem with the method is to find a mild but non-coating shampoo. You can also choose to make one yourself.

General advice with the oil/shampoo ratio is to start with 1:1 and go from there. The type of shampoo and your hair affects how much you'd need to use, I use 1 part solid coconut oil, which I melt in the microwave, and 2 parts shampoo (with SLES).

I'm not sure I have reached saturation, but I've gotten good results. If I get oily hair, it washes off with the next oil shampoo wash. I've never used plain shampoo. The results got better after about a week from clarifying (I wash every other day).

I use 2-3 drops of mineral oil too, and it doesn't seem to build up or cause any problems. I haven't felt the need to do the DT with coconut oil, oil shampoo works fine on it's own.

Here is the current oil shampoo thread with links to ktani's articles and the old thread: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=65063

I haven't used the lemon rinse, but apparently it's the sugar in it that makes the hair form better curls and helps with the frizz.

Mochaccino
April 19th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Thanks Siiri. That answers almost all of my questions. How has it worked for you so far? Would you say it was a big improvement or what?

Siiri (or anyone else), these are the ingredients of Johnson's baby shampoo: Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, PEG-80 Sorbitan Laurate, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, PEG-150 Distearate, Fragrance, Polyquaternium-10, Tetrasodium EDTA, Quaternium-15, Citric Acid, Yellow 10 and Orange 4. May also contain: Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide.

Is there anything in it that could cause build up? How do I recognize ingredients that cause build up?

afu
April 19th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Is there anything in it that could cause build up? How do I recognize ingredients that cause build up?

Usually the things to look for that cause build up are chemicals ending in -cone. Butters and oils can also cause build up but are more easily washed out without the need for a clarify.

i stopped using oil shampoo regularly because i found that i didn't need the extra oil treatment at the roots, so i just apply from around the top of ear level down when hair is damp. I slather my hair in coconut oil before getting my highlights done to prevent peroxide damage as recommended by ktani and that has worked amazingly

pepperminttea
April 19th, 2012, 09:43 AM
Usually the things to look for that cause build up are chemicals ending in -cone.

Silicones can also end in -conol and -xane. :)

lapushka
April 19th, 2012, 09:49 AM
5) Mineral oil:
Is it ok to use both coconut oil and mineral oil? I plan to use a few drops of mineral oil on damp hair after the coconut oil wash. Ktani says that mineral oil does not build up on the hair, and does not block the absorption of lauric acid, so I assume that means it would be ok to use it in addition to the coconut oil, but I'm not sure. I think the mineral oil might have to be completely washed off before applying the coconut oil, which means I might have to wash my hair twice in a row. Is that right?

I don't think Ktani was ever for both using coconut oil *and* mineral oil. Mineral oil on its own: yes; used with other oils: no. It could get you crunchy or undesired results.

pelicano
April 19th, 2012, 09:55 AM
I think you could be overdoing it if you start experimenting with both mineral oil and the move star method at the same time.

I tried the movie star method, and it didn't really suit my hair - it was too difficult to find the exact balance between the oil and shampoo (ie the ratios), and also I very definitely needed different ratios for the roots compared to the lengths - it was all too much like hard work to experiment with in the end.

The idea with the build up is that a lot of ingredients can build up, not just cones etc, but herbs and other botanicals. Personally, I don't tend to use a clarifying shampoo, but I use a chelating one, as I regularly get a build up of hard water on my hair.

Mirsha
April 19th, 2012, 10:00 AM
Thanks Siiri. That answers almost all of my questions. How has it worked for you so far? Would you say it was a big improvement or what?

Siiri (or anyone else), these are the ingredients of Johnson's baby shampoo: Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, PEG-80 Sorbitan Laurate, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, PEG-150 Distearate, Fragrance, Polyquaternium-10, Tetrasodium EDTA, Quaternium-15, Citric Acid, Yellow 10 and Orange 4. May also contain: Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide.

Is there anything in it that could cause build up? How do I recognize ingredients that cause build up?

Orange coloured is a conditioning ingredient meant to stay on hair after rinsing, it also causes build-up with particular conditioner ingredients eg Cetrimonium Chloride and/or (negatively charged) surfactants in general. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=95179

the Quaternium 15 is a preservative.

jojo
April 19th, 2012, 10:34 AM
I am sure Ktani stated that you can use any shampoo for the movie star method, as long as you wash it all out. Re- MO you only need to use it on its own on damp hair, just a few drops, it doesnt need re-applying inbetween washes or anything, its worked great for my hair and my daughters. I still use conditioner with mine but my daughter doesnt, its really good! Ktani has a very popular blog online where you can email her.

ETA- just remembered it has to be a shampoo that doesnt cause build up

jojo
April 19th, 2012, 11:08 AM
to contact her or follow her blog heres the details, hope im not breaking any rules here

Blog http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.ca/
Contact email: kmhairsense@yahoo.ca

sibiryachka
April 19th, 2012, 11:22 AM
I've been using the Movie Star Shampoo method for about 18 months. Wouldn't have stuck with it if it weren't giving me results that thrill me, but it did take several months of trial and error before hitting the "sweet spot". I'll answer what I can:

Catnip tea:

Haven't tried it, although I have, based on Ktani's recommendation, suggested it to others. Ktani makes very clear her belief that catnip leaves too much of a coating on the hair shaft to be compatible with MSS method. She tried MSS method and documented the results; for her own use she preferred her catnip because it's her hair color as well as a strengthening/conditioning treatment.

Ktani's Movie Star Shampoo method:
1:1 is the standard starting ratio. For me that's waaaay too much oil; I use 1 oil:4 shampoo.
Is Johnson's baby shampoo a good choice for this method?
IIRC, no. My memory is that Ktani found that most baby shampoos cause build-up.
About how many washes does it take to reach saturation, or to see the full coconut oil "transformation"?
That depends entirely on oil:shampoo ratio, and each individual head of hair. I know "You'll know it when you get there" isn't a very reassuring answer, but it is a factual one.

Clarifying:
I want to completely clarify my hair before beginning the other methods. I plan to just use regular old baby shampoo followed by baking soda and lemon juice rinses. What is the maximum number of washes it might take to completely clarify my hair? Is it best to let the rinses sit on your hair for a while before rinsing them out? I already did one clarifying rinse and I think it might have slightly affected my hair dye, but I'm not sure. I use dark brown drugstore dye. It is okay to use BS and lemon juice on dark color treated hair?

Never having tried BS to clarify, I can't speak to that question. For clarifying, I've learned to stick with plain old Prell, diluted to 1/2 strength. I use this ONLY after a henna treatment, mostly to remove residue from the condish I mix with the henna. One wash does the job for me. Since I use such a low oil ratio, I never really reach "saturation", so post-henna is the only time I find it necessary to clarify.
Lots of useful info on clarifying here:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=224

5) Mineral oil:
Is it ok to use both coconut oil and mineral oil? I plan to use a few drops of mineral oil on damp hair after the coconut oil wash. Ktani says that mineral oil does not build up on the hair, and does not block the absorption of lauric acid, so I assume that means it would be ok to use it in addition to the coconut oil, but I'm not sure. I think the mineral oil might have to be completely washed off before applying the coconut oil, which means I might have to wash my hair twice in a row. Is that right?

I avoid mineral oil like the plague, as it does not agree with either my hair or my skin, so no useful data here. I do sometimes use a bit of extra coconut oil on my ends when they need babying.

Lemon juice rinse:
Ktani claims that rinsing with diluted lemon juice after conditioning will almost completely eliminate frizz. I haven't had good results with acidic rinses in the past, but my hair was very damaged and I was using all the wrong products. How often should I use the rinse?Should I use it after every wash because my hair is super frizzy?

What I recall Ktani saying about using an acid rinse after oil shampoo is that it's only *necessary* if you have hard water, or are using a soap-based shampoo, to restore the Ph balance to hair and scalp. I use a lemon rinse purely because it keeps my scalp from getting itchy, and it does seem to enhance shine a bit.... But then the combination of henna and coconut oil keeps it plenty shiny anyway, and I may be imagining the added results from the lemon rinse. No reason not to use one though, unless you're concerned about possible lightening; it feels and smells nice. If you find that it reduces frizz for you, I believe it's fine to use after every wash; I do.

Whew...I think that's all of it! Should I use all of these methods or just a few? Are any of them contradictory? Is there anything else I should add to my routine? Are there any other tips/suggestions you think I should know?


If you have access to Prell, honestly, I'd start there. I dinked around with other shampoos for months, and was never happy with my results. Once I got it *properly* clarified and got my ratio right... heaven! Over time the Prell did prove a little too strong for use with every shampoo, so now I mix it 50:50 with Fructis PureClean, which is a teeny bit too mild on its own.

I will echo others' advice: Make one change at a time, so you can get a realistic idea of what actually works and what doesn't. Patience, Grasshopper! :p

Siiri
April 19th, 2012, 11:37 AM
Thanks Siiri. That answers almost all of my questions. How has it worked for you so far? Would you say it was a big improvement or what?

Siiri (or anyone else), these are the ingredients of Johnson's baby shampoo: Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, PEG-80 Sorbitan Laurate, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, PEG-150 Distearate, Fragrance, Polyquaternium-10, Tetrasodium EDTA, Quaternium-15, Citric Acid, Yellow 10 and Orange 4. May also contain: Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide.

Is there anything in it that could cause build up? How do I recognize ingredients that cause build up?

I don't have any specific hair problems, it's virgin, not too dry, and I don't have split ends or breakage. I was CO-washing before this, which also worked fine, but with this method the difference is the hair is less weighed down and has more slip, because I don't have build up. It's also shinier. One common problem people get with the method is static, but I got it only when it was very cold (dry air) and mineral oil seemed to help with that. But with only using this for such a short time, I don't know what the long term effects will be.

Others have already answered this, but Polyquarternium-10 wouldn't be ideal with the method. But it seems to be pretty individual as to what shampoo works, some shampoos on the list I linked earlier have silicones, which normally would cause build up. Waxes build up too. Many plant based ingredients have waxes, so a lot of natural shampoos don't work. I've understood that the amount of the ingredient has an effect too, if there is a coating ingredient high up in the list, it's better to avoid the product, if there's a very small amount, it may still work.

What I did when I searched for a good shampoo for this method was that I looked for simple shampoos with few ingredients (often sold for sensitive skin) and googled the ingredients to see if they are waxes, and I also tried to avoid anything that's supposed to be conditioning or film forming etc. anything that sounds like it would coat the hair. So basically my shampoo has only cleansing ingredients, preservatives and acid to balance the pH. But it doesn't have to be that extreme.

eta: I forgot to mention, why I didn't choose a shampoo from is list is because we don't have most of the shampoos in it, and I wanted to get something affordable and not animal tested.

jeanniet
April 19th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Before you do anything, the first thing I would do is type your hair. The reason I say this is that often people who think they have very frizzy hair actually have curly hair, and if you're a curly, you might see great improvement just by using different care products or techniques. To type, use a clarifying shampoo to wash, don't put on any conditioner or product, and allow to dry naturally (you can blot the excess water by wrapping in a towel, but don't rub and take the towel off after 5 or 10 minutes. Don't touch it while it's drying. Then take a look at the typing information here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=227. I'll bet you're a 2c or higher.

Once you know your real hair type you can start figuring out what works best for you. The best way to go about is to only try one thing at a time. If you try three things at once and your hair's a disaster, you won't know what caused the problem. Figure on taking at least a few months to get a new routine down--it takes patience, but it's worth it in the end. :)

LocustSpawning
April 19th, 2012, 12:41 PM
Woah, wait, a little off topic but eh??! How is Ktani not around anymore? :( Noooo!

manderly
April 19th, 2012, 01:02 PM
Before you do anything, the first thing I would do is type your hair. The reason I say this is that often people who think they have very frizzy hair actually have curly hair, and if you're a curly, you might see great improvement just by using different care products or techniques. To type, use a clarifying shampoo to wash, don't put on any conditioner or product, and allow to dry naturally (you can blot the excess water by wrapping in a towel, but don't rub and take the towel off after 5 or 10 minutes. Don't touch it while it's drying. Then take a look at the typing information here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=227. I'll bet you're a 2c or higher.

Once you know your real hair type you can start figuring out what works best for you. The best way to go about is to only try one thing at a time. If you try three things at once and your hair's a disaster, you won't know what caused the problem. Figure on taking at least a few months to get a new routine down--it takes patience, but it's worth it in the end. :)

This. 100 times this. All too often new members believe they have frizzy, wild, or generally uncooperative straight or slightly wavy hair only to discover hidden curls later on (like me). Get your hair typed, try the curly girl method for a while, then attempt these other treatments and methods. I was not happy with my hair and results until I embraced my curls.

Mochaccino
April 19th, 2012, 01:20 PM
Thanks. I'll start with just the oil wash and see what happens.

jeanniet
April 19th, 2012, 01:20 PM
This. 100 times this. All too often new members believe they have frizzy, wild, or generally uncooperative straight or slightly wavy hair only to discover hidden curls later on (like me). Get your hair typed, try the curly girl method for a while, then attempt these other treatments and methods. I was not happy with my hair and results until I embraced my curls.
And your curls are lovely!

my2cats1
April 21st, 2012, 05:26 PM
For clarifying outside the baking soda / ACV method, she recomended Neutrogena Anti-Residue Shampoo. It is clear and comes in a square-shaped bottle. Around $5, I think.

Naiadryade
April 21st, 2012, 09:26 PM
I've been wondering where Ktani went ever since her avatar disappeared and she became a "former member." Did she make a goodbye post or anything?

HumanBean
April 21st, 2012, 10:42 PM
Theres a thread about it with a type of goodbye post from Ktani on the site support board.

afu
April 22nd, 2012, 01:16 PM
I've been wondering where Ktani went ever since her avatar disappeared and she became a "former member." Did she make a goodbye post or anything?

See the last post on this thread for more info on that:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=91737&page=6

MinderMutsig
April 22nd, 2012, 02:20 PM
Before you do anything, the first thing I would do is type your hair. The reason I say this is that often people who think they have very frizzy hair actually have curly hair, and if you're a curly, you might see great improvement just by using different care products or techniques. To type, use a clarifying shampoo to wash, don't put on any conditioner or product, and allow to dry naturally (you can blot the excess water by wrapping in a towel, but don't rub and take the towel off after 5 or 10 minutes. Don't touch it while it's drying. Then take a look at the typing information here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=227. I'll bet you're a 2c or higher.

Once you know your real hair type you can start figuring out what works best for you. The best way to go about is to only try one thing at a time. If you try three things at once and your hair's a disaster, you won't know what caused the problem. Figure on taking at least a few months to get a new routine down--it takes patience, but it's worth it in the end. :)


This. 100 times this. All too often new members believe they have frizzy, wild, or generally uncooperative straight or slightly wavy hair only to discover hidden curls later on (like me). Get your hair typed, try the curly girl method for a while, then attempt these other treatments and methods. I was not happy with my hair and results until I embraced my curls. Thirded!

I'd also avoid trying everything at once. You'll never know what works, what doesn't and what causes any problems you might run into.

Also a word of caution about the oil shampoo method: it fried my ends and I know I'm not the only one growing out damage from trying that particular method. It's like my ends exploded! I had split ends all throughout my hair and it has taken me a long time to get rid of them all and even now my hair is still not fully recovered.

And aside from the damage it caused me and a lot of others it's also not as easy as it sounds. A lot of people reported having trouble reaching saturation or finding a balance between using oil shampoo or just plain shampoo once they reached saturation. For me, after saturation, the results were consistently bad. Using oil in my shampoo made my hair oily and stringy, using just plain shampoo made it too dry and frizzy. I never found that magical balance.

Yes, research shows that lauric acid can only penetrate the hair shaft when there is nothing coating the hair and this method likely helps lauric acid to penetrate the hair. OK, I'll believe that. And yes, lauric acid has been said to reduce protein loss from the hair. But those two statements do not automatically mean that loading your hair with lauric acid is a good thing.

ETA: lauric acid is solid at temperatures below 42 C (107 F) which means that once it's in the hair it is in a solid state. /end ETA.

I am not alone in reporting exploding ends and I think the lauric acid penetrating the hair shaft and overloading the core is the reason this happened.

Still, there are also people who have had stellar results from the oil shampoo method so it may be worth giving it a try. I'm just saying please keep a close eye on your hair and stop the second you start seeing problems because you wouldn't be the first to get severe damage from this method. As with all methods every head of hair responds differently, nothing works for everyone.

afu
April 22nd, 2012, 02:58 PM
like mindermutsig, i also had bad results from oil shampooing - it made my roots far too greasy looking and my lengths dried out. But that is probably partially due to the fact that my ends were already more damaged. My advice if you're trying it is to really pay attention to what your hair is telling you, if it looks like your hair dosn't agree with it, maybe its time to try another approach such as CO, CWC, low-poo. To begin with i was very wary of ditching the shampoo, but CO was the best thing ive ever done for my hair. How are you getting on?

jeanniet
April 22nd, 2012, 03:11 PM
If you are a curly, I would start with the CO method and not oil shampoo. This is because while oil shampoo does seem to work well for some, curly hair is different and typically needs lots of moisture and not much protein. That's why CO often works so well. The oil shampoo method is something that often seems to need a certain amount of tweaking to work well, so it's not something I would recommend for someone just starting with experimentation. You don't want to get frustrated right off the bat.

pepperminttea
April 22nd, 2012, 03:12 PM
I'd also avoid trying everything at once. You'll never know what works, what doesn't and what causes any problems you might run into.

Also a word of caution about the oil shampoo method: it fried my ends and I know I'm not the only one growing out damage from trying that particular method. It's like my ends exploded! I had split ends all throughout my hair and it has taken me a long time to get rid of them all and even now my hair is still not fully recovered.

And aside from the damage it caused me and a lot of others it's also not as easy as it sounds. A lot of people reported having trouble reaching saturation or finding a balance between using oil shampoo or just plain shampoo once they reached saturation. For me, after saturation, the results were consistently bad. Using oil in my shampoo made my hair oily and stringy, using just plain shampoo made it too dry and frizzy. I never found that magical balance.

Yes, research shows that lauric acid can only penetrate the hair shaft when there is nothing coating the hair and this method likely helps lauric acid to penetrate the hair. OK, I'll believe that. And yes, lauric acid has been said to reduce protein loss from the hair. But those two statements do not automatically mean that loading your hair with lauric acid is a good thing.

ETA: lauric acid is solid at temperatures below 42 C (107 F) which means that once it's in the hair it is in a solid state. /end ETA.

I am not alone in reporting exploding ends and I think the lauric acid penetrating the hair shaft and overloading the core is the reason this happened.

Still, there are also people who have had stellar results from the oil shampoo method so it may be worth giving it a try. I'm just saying please keep a close eye on your hair and stop the second you start seeing problems because you wouldn't be the first to get severe damage from this method. As with all methods every head of hair responds differently, nothing works for everyone.

Ditto. :) I had decent results from shampoil at first, not my dream hair, but not terrible - very fluffy. Once I reached saturation, I never got good results again, despite many attempts. For several months afterwards it changed how my hair reacted to products, always seeming both overloaded and dry, not fixed by clarifying, protein, or deep moisture treatments. Later, I noticed I had a lot of damage in my ends, much higher than my usual rate of splits. My hair isn't (and wasn't then) previously processed, so I don't have any old damage to lay the blame on. I don't know whether it was from all the SLS shampoo, the difficulty in detangling (nowhere near enough slip), or the lauric acid solidifying inside the hair, but it wouldn't surprise me if they all played a part.

But, for some people shampoil is amazing, a holy grail routine. For my own, I can't say I'm ever going to touch it again. Treat it carefully.

long
April 22nd, 2012, 03:26 PM
This is interesting to me about the exploding hair shaft. I read somewhere that coconut and some other oils can cause the hair to absorb to much moisture and it then weakens, swells, splits and breaks. I agree with MinderMutsig that loading the hair up with lauric acid might not be a good thing.

rusika1
April 22nd, 2012, 04:51 PM
That's too many changes at once. Pick the one that most interests you and try that for a while before adding the next thing. That way you can decide what does or doesn't work for you.

Stagecoach
April 22nd, 2012, 08:00 PM
I'm another who suffered lots of damage to Oil Shampoo. I had completely virgin, healthy hair at the start and I was left with dry, brittle hair which is still not recovered a year later.

My problem was that I kept sticking with it even when I realized damage was occuring. I took the advise that "You just haven't found the right shampoo/clarified enough/wrong ratio...ect" and kept thinking I would get it right.

So as others have said. Change one thing at a time, and keep a close eye on how your hair reacts.

afu
April 23rd, 2012, 07:05 AM
I read somewhere that coconut and some other oils can cause the hair to absorb to much moisture and it then weakens, swells, splits and breaks. I agree with MinderMutsig that loading the hair up with lauric acid might not be a good thing.

I really do think this can be true. Oil shampoo didn't work well at all for me, and although my hair is curly and thus needs moisture - my hair became stretchy when wet and brittle when dry which may be due to lauric acid overload causing excessive water absorbsion leading to damage. I switched to CO and instead i now apply my coconut oil to damp hair rather than wet to limit too much water going into the hair. This seems to be perfect for me.

Mochaccino
April 23rd, 2012, 12:44 PM
I never thought you ladies would still be answering my question 4 days later, but I'm really glad you did. So far things haven't been going so well.

I've been trying Ktani's shampoo method and my hair definitely hasn't exploded yet, but I'm having some weird problems that I don't know how to explain. I use an extremely tiny amount of oil. I actually measured it just so I'd be able to give you guys a better idea. I used only 1/8 tsp for my shoulder length hair. Strangely it made my hair greasy on the ends but not the roots. Greasy really isn't even the right word. It almost looks waxy. It has a thick, piecey, buttery look that only saturated fats can give. It looked that way the very first time I tried the coconut oil, and it hasn't gotten any better or worse, so I'm sure the oil didn't just build up too much. Ktani's method is also extremely impractical for me, because I really need to use a leave in and I can't. I contacted Ktani, and she said I should just use more coconut oil as a leave-in, but that's clearly not working on my hair type.

The fact of the matter is that all the products that have ever really wowed me have all contained lots of cones. My hair absolutely loves cones, but light oils, such as argan oil, are almost as good. My current favorite moisturizing product is a mixture of argan oil and silicone. I'm not sure why I nearly jumped on the "no cones" bandwagon against my own experience and better judgement. Some people's hair obviously doesn't do well with cones, but I know mine does.

The problem I have is that my current hair looks absolutely crazy without some form of heat styling and a large amount of product. My hair is also absolutely uncontrollable in humidity. I'm one of those girls who won't even get in the water at the beach unless I'm sure I'll have an hour to completely re-do my hair before going out.

My ultimate goal is to have hair that's looks decent when it's air dried without any product or styling. I doesn't necessarily have to look good, or attractive. I just want it to look decent. Right now my untouched, air dried hair would draw stares and whispers if I wore it down in the street, without any products, clips or pins of any kind.

I also want to cut back on my frizz as much as humanly possible, and be able to withstand humidity and moisture. For me the two go hand in hand. I was absolutely shocked when I read that a lot of people on this board actually feel that their hair look less puffy and frizzy when it's humid.
:agape:

sibiryachka
April 23rd, 2012, 01:35 PM
I dunno, it's possible that this is just not the best thing for your particular head of hair. I think I may be in the minority with my long-term success with this method :shrug: - unlike Ktani, I don't have/haven't tracked down the scientific facts (if any) behind my hunch, but my hunch is that using henna may be one (possibly the main) reason for that.

I wonder, though - what have you been using to clarify? You don't want to over-clarify, of course, but what you're describing sounds like the job may have not been thoroughly done yet, and you'll probably need to start from there in order for anything to help.

I see you have 2b hair, and problems with frizz.... I wonder whether you may not actually have more curl that's trying to break free? I don't think I'm the first to ask, but don't recall whether you replied: Have you tried, or looked into, the Curly Girl method?
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=72542&highlight=girl+method

One of my BFFs is probably a 3b, lives in humid Pittsburgh, and swears by it... and has the stunning long curls to back it up! Just a thought. Hope you find a better solution soon!

Mochaccino
April 23rd, 2012, 02:25 PM
I used Garnier Pure Clean a few times. I used a bunch and really worked it in. I followed it up with baking soda and lemon juice rinses. I left the rinses on for a few minutes each, just in case. After that, I skipped the shampoo and just used the rinses a few times. When I started doing KSSM I applied the coconut oil, let it sink in for a few minutes, and then washed out the excess with a little of the Garnier shampoo. When that didn't work, I tried adding a tiny amount more coconut oil as a leave-in.

Before I started all of this, I was constantly using tresemme Purify and Replenish conditioner. I wasn't using anything else other than shampoo and, occasionaly, gel. I was taking a break from my other products while rethinking my routine. The Tresemme seems to have a lot of protein. Would that make it unusually difficult to remove? Was the Garnier Pure Clean a bad choice?

I don't know all the details of the Curly Girl method because I didn't buy the book, but I looked into a lot of summaries of the method. The most important part of the method that Im not doing is CO washing. I thought oil shampoo could be a decent stand in, but now Im not so sure. My hair really doesn't have any ringlets and it never did. It doesn't have rippling waterfall waves either. Instead it has these large full swoops that are a several inches across. I feel like some aspects of curly girl just don't apply to me. Does that make sense?

sibiryachka
April 23rd, 2012, 03:49 PM
I've never tried clarifying with baking soda, so can't address that, but the PureClean is NOT a clarifying shampoo; it's too gentle, at least in my experience. It sounds from the problems you're describing that the method/products you used did not actually clarify, so you might want to try another way.
Did you check out the article on clarifying I linked to earlier? Good ideas there. You might also want to read this one, it's a good thorough step-by-step way to "diagnose" your hair's issues, so you can make more informed decisions about what might work well for you:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44

Siiri
April 24th, 2012, 02:35 AM
When I started doing KSSM I applied the coconut oil, let it sink in for a few minutes, and then washed out the excess with a little of the Garnier shampoo. When that didn't work, I tried adding a tiny amount more coconut oil as a leave-in.


So you're not mixing the oil with the shampoo, you apply the oil first and wash it out with the shampoo? I could see how you could get greasy hair that way.

I mix my oil with the shampoo. I've found I get better results if I massage my scalp well and scrunch the ends too a bit, and then immediately rinse it out. If I let it sit, the ends a look oily.

MinderMutsig
April 24th, 2012, 04:08 AM
FYI: my hair had that same feeling of both being dry and greasy/waxy on this method. I should have known then that it wasn't the right method for me but I kept following the advice that maybe my hair wasn't clarified enough, or maybe the shampoo I used wasn't the right one, or maybe I just needed to find the right oil to shampoo ratio. I know the method says clarifying is only needed once but then why is the first advice given to someone who experiences problems with this method, that maybe their hair wasn't clarified enough and they should do it again for the magic to start happening? My hair was clarified to hell and back to try and make this method work, I tried several shampoos and different brands and ratios of coconut oil and it did not make a difference at all.

I have no one to blame but myself for keeping with something that was obviously making my hair angry but when I see someone almost making the same mistake I feel I have to speak up to prevent them from following in my footsteps.

This method just does not work for some people and even worse, it can create massive damage on some people. In my experience that dry but greasy/waxy feeling is the first sign of trouble and I'd advice anyone who experiences it to stop immediately.