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melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 09:40 AM
I go to a cosmetology school in Florida. Our class is made of mostly black students and Hispanics. What i find strange is we are not taught anything about how to deal with hair that has anything more than a loose curl to it. Our practice manikins all have straight hair "even the black manikins" the exception being one doll we are given that has had a loose perm. We have several book varying between 300- 600 pages long, yet none of it deals with hair in the 3b-4c range. Other students and I have asked about receiving manikins/information dealing with curlier hair types but we are always met with blank stares and fingers pointing to our wavy dolls. This doesn't seem right to me. When ever we have a guest in our salon with this hair type they are always given to a "black" student. What do they expect us to do when we leave school and encounter different hair types? This just feels off to me.

spidermom
April 14th, 2012, 09:50 AM
How long have you been in cosmetology school? Maybe that information is coming later.

melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Im in the 3rd quarter of four and fourth is all test prep for the state board :(.

ellen732
April 14th, 2012, 10:07 AM
I attended beauty school over twenty years ago and I was taught thermal straightening and relaxers. It was not a part of State Board testing but it was a subject that was covered. I also did African American hair in the salon.

melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 10:09 AM
we are taught relaxers, but as for dealing with natural hair, styles, and cuts we have been left hanging.

ellen732
April 14th, 2012, 10:12 AM
we are taught relaxers, but as for dealing with natural hair, styles, and cuts we have been left hanging.

But hair is hair. It's cut and styled exactly the same.

melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 10:12 AM
relaxers where also taught on pin straight hair, i should mention.

melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 10:12 AM
I guess, it just feels intimidating.

mzBANGBANG
April 14th, 2012, 10:12 AM
That seems really unfair, demographics of the classroom aside. It's also insulting to the money you pay for your education. Personally I'd want to spend as much time as possible learning about 3/4 type hair since I am so unfamiliar with it. Sounds like they just prep you for the state board requirements.

Firefly
April 14th, 2012, 10:16 AM
This explains why my 3b sister can't find a decent stylist! I think that's crazy. Curly hair behaves differently; it just makes sense to spend some time learning about it.

ellen732
April 14th, 2012, 10:17 AM
I guess, it just feels intimidating.

It is intimidating, but once you get into a salon and start doing hair you will grow and be more comfortable with all aspects of hair services. Curly hair is a bit more of a challenge, as you cut you need to see how the hair reacts and always take a bit less as it will bounce. You can always find classes and tutorials if you want more experience in a certain area. I would recommend you check out the Behind the Chair website. It has a lot of information and tutorials. Good luck in your career.

melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 10:20 AM
My poor fluffy boyfriend is afraid of salons as well lol. On the bright side, at least he has gotten a beautiful long mane because of it.

CurlyCap
April 14th, 2012, 10:20 AM
Yep.

Most stylists I've met have NO idea how to deal with truly curly hair or hair that has inherent texture to it. Wurly is not the same as CURL BOMB and curl bombs are nothing like type 4 hair. I always found it odd that people are willing to demarcate between 1a-c hair, but pretty much when you pass 3c hair, it's all just usually called "kinky" by people who don't have it.

To most mixed women or black women, my hair is not that curly. Not only that, but the actual shaft is fairly even (doesn't vary in width along it's length). My hair shifts between 3b and 3c depending on the product, but it is definitively curly in the sense that you can't look at my hair and every come back with the word "straight". I have been turned away by MANY stylists in my life because they say "we don't do your kind of hair". And I think worse experiences than this is why many of my black friends don't even step into a predominantly white beauty parlor. This has more pervasive consequences because the "forced choice" helps perpetuate many of the black community's biased "beauty" stereotypes because the salons they feel comfortable going to, the people who probably most understand their hair, are also the most likely to suggest relaxers and perms rather than natural hair care. God bless the upsurgence of natural hair care salons.

I always wonder why so many people are willing to embrace the idea that Indian people have a different hair type, as do Nordic, etc, but (at least in the US), black hair is an unacknowledged...and usually underserviced...hair type.

As a potential future customer, I can tell you that I would pay a hefty service fee to any hair stylist who doesn't look at my hair and go "Oh well. You know, curly hair is curly hair. Irish curly or black curly. It doesn't really matter. It's all cut/cared/styled the same." This is WRONG and my hair isn't like a head of straight hair that slept in rollers. Just like my dark skin isn't like pale skin with a deep tan. It's inherently different and there's a bag of tricks that work well on black or mixed black hair that probably doesn't work as well on Caucasian or Asian hair.

The lady who cuts my hair is very sweet and has at least mastered the art of trimming all types of curly hair. She still has no idea who to style anything with more than a natural wave. I laugh after she trims it because she still, after about 5 years, puts about a teaspoon of product in her palm and tries to comb it through my hair. She uses a drop or two oil. Any curly or natural will tell you, "Um. Just give me the bottle." Most black women (that I know) know the value of a good palmfull of heavy oil.

So, yes. Learn curly AND natural hair care. Learn about what is traditionally offered in black and Dominican parlors. Provide the level of customer service seen in traditional European or white salons, but don't run screaming from curly hair and it's care techniques. Once Curlies know your name we will travel hours to see you.

I still dream of a stylist who has a clue how to do intricate updos on super curly hair. So far, I'm the most advanced curly stylist I know. Which is sad.

melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 10:21 AM
ellen732, thats a great idea! I don't know why the obvious didn't strike me, thank you!

lapushka
April 14th, 2012, 10:25 AM
Doesn't Lorraine Massey offer some kind of seminar for learning to deal with curly hair. If so, you might want to look into that further, after you graduate. If they're not offering it there, look for it elsewhere. It probably, most likely, will make you a better stylist.

melissa8989
April 14th, 2012, 10:26 AM
Thank you CurlyCap, I think I will do what ellen732 said and put my efforts towards understanding this.

arielįgua
April 14th, 2012, 10:28 AM
I don't think hair is hair and is cut the same way. Curly hair forms and dries differently, so therefore needs a different type of cut. I used to have ringlets as a child/teen, and I remember my nice hairstylist would cut it as if it was straight hair, and in the end, I would have a pyramid looking haircut, which is an awful haircut. I have heard of a method to cut curly hair on NaturallyCurly.com
Maybe you could try learning by yourself, by searching, I don't know...just suggesting...Schools teachings sometimes can be a little bit incomplete. Good luck though for your education. :)

MinderMutsig
April 14th, 2012, 10:36 AM
But hair is hair. It's cut and styled exactly the same. This is not true. For instance, straight hair is usually combed or brushed after washing while curly hair shouldn't be because that destroys the curls and makes a huge fluffy mess. Then there is the cut. Curly hair should be cut dry so you can see the curl pattern. It doesn't matter what shape it is when it's wet and combed, what matters is what it looks like when it's dry and curly. Cutting curly hair wet can (and most likely will) give a very wonky result because the tightness and bounce isn't uniform but varies on different parts of the head for most people.

And then there's the obvious of 3- and 4-something hair being very differently textured and acting differently when you handle it so updo's or braiding is different from when you try the same on straight hair.

UltraBella
April 14th, 2012, 10:38 AM
Here's some advice from an owner of two salons : concentrate on your boards, get your license and then find some continuing education that is going to teach you what you want to know and help you get comfortable with different hair types. If you can't find actual classes or conventions that are offering this type of experience, find yourself a prominently "black" salon and offer to intern there for free for a week or two, and explain why. Most will appreciate your desire to not treat all hair exactly the same. Hair is NOT all the same and should not be cut the same, should not be styled the same, and especially should not be turned away for service.

MinderMutsig
April 14th, 2012, 10:52 AM
I don't think hair is hair and is cut the same way. Curly hair forms and dries differently, so therefore needs a different type of cut. I used to have ringlets as a child/teen, and I remember my nice hairstylist would cut it as if it was straight hair, and in the end, I would have a pyramid looking haircut, which is an awful haircut. I have heard of a method to cut curly hair on NaturallyCurly.com
Maybe you could try learning by yourself, by searching, I don't know...just suggesting...Schools teachings sometimes can be a little bit incomplete. Good luck though for your education. :)
I agree. I'm a pale pasty white girl of obvious Nordic descent with wavy/wurly hair and even I can tell the difference between a stylist that knows hair and one who doesn't.

I've walked around with uneven pyramid hair during my entire childhood because of stylist who say hair is hair and it can all be cut and handled the same way. My hair curls around my hairline and the rest is wavy. Cut my hair wet and (especially if it's a short pixie style!) I'll walk around looking like a moron because it's uneven, wonky and just plain demolished by cutting it that way.

My hair in many ways acts like afro hair in that it craves moisture and I can easily use a palm full of product or oil and you can't even see I used something. My hair is not the same as 1-something hair. Not even close.

My sister has 3b curls and she experienced the same. She finally found a decent hairdresser which she travels 2 hours for to get there and two hours back because that is the only person she knows that can properly cut and style curly hair.

I can't even imagine the carnage the 'hair is hair' treatment would do on 4-something hair!

This is exactly the reason why I don't visit salons and hairstylists anymore. They either lack the knowledge and don't realize it or they lack the knowledge and are too stubborn to admit it and learn.

mzBANGBANG
April 14th, 2012, 10:52 AM
If you can't find actual classes or conventions that are offering this type of experience, find yourself a prominently "black" salon and offer to intern there for free for a week or two, and explain why.

This is great advice.

CurlyCap
April 14th, 2012, 11:14 AM
Then there is the cut. Curly hair should be cut dry so you can see the curl pattern. It doesn't matter what shape it is when it's wet and combed, what matters is what it looks like when it's dry and curly. Cutting curly hair wet can (and most likely will) give a very wonky result because the tightness and bounce isn't uniform but varies on different parts of the head for most people.

While I agree with the idea, I don't necessarily believe curly hair should be cut dry. I DO think the stylist needs to know how your hair dries and what your curl pattern is around your head. This is why it's important to work regularly with the same stylist. Also, a stylist MUST understand shrinkage and have some idea what kind of shrinkage you, as their current customer, usually gets.

My experience with dry cuts is that people address the "outside" of the hair as it is on the day of the haircut and it doesn't address the idea that my hair can curl differently every single day. It has a mind of its own and one day a section may be corkscrew and the next day be zig-zagging and sort of horizontal. Dry cuts tend not to work well when your hair can change shape drastically.

I once had a lady leave me with hair six inches longer in one section just because that section was super curly that day. When I rinsed it that night and got ready to go out I was very much o_O.

Copasetic
April 14th, 2012, 11:15 AM
But hair is hair. It's cut and styled exactly the same.

That's the thing though; all hair is not cut and styled in the exact same way. That's why it is so hard for some of us to find a place where we can reliably get our hair cut.

I am really impressed that the OP noticed the lack of diverse teaching methods in her class. It's a shame, but not at all shocking.

princessp
April 14th, 2012, 11:27 AM
This explains why my 3b sister can't find a decent stylist! I think that's crazy. Curly hair behaves differently; it just makes sense to spend some time learning about it.

Yes my hair has always been just over on that side of the spectrum. And now I know why I have yet to find a stylist who really understands my hair. I can't imagine what it might be like for folks all the way at the edge of the spectrum hair-wise. This really seems unfair.

This is actually pretty outrageous. I am glad you brought up this point because I didn't know this was common practice. Since beauty schools are not run like a college/university I'm not sure of the chain of command/power structure. Do they have a corporate office? I would write up a letter outlining these concerns (maybe others in class might join you in signing this letter). I might even write an op-ed about it and send it to as many publications as you can just to get the word out. This strikes me as discrimination too.

ETA:
To most mixed women or black women, my hair is not that curly. Not only that, but the actual shaft is fairly even (doesn't vary in width along it's length). My hair shifts between 3b and 3c depending on the product, but it is definitively curly in the sense that you can't look at my hair and every come back with the word "straight". I have been turned away by MANY stylists in my life because they say "we don't do your kind of hair". And I think worse experiences than this is why many of my black friends don't even step into a predominantly white beauty parlor. This has more pervasive consequences because the "forced choice" helps perpetuate the many of the black community's biased "beauty" stereotypes because the salons they feel comfortable going to, the people who probably most understand their hair, are also the most likely to suggest relaxers and perms rather than natural hair care. God bless the upsurgence of natural hair care salons.
Interesting. You know what, I've been turned away too and my hair is way less curly than yours. So I guess the spectrum of "extreme" hair (that's what mine has been called) is actually quite large. And you have shed some light on other parts of this issue for me as well thanks.

So salons just marginalize a whole group of people because stylists never got the right training. I like UltraBella's idea of interning for the OP, but honestly this has to stop. I think the word needs to get out there and students need to demand this training.

kamikaze hair
April 14th, 2012, 11:48 AM
I definitely I agree with everybody, get ahead of the game and once you've finished your studies get practical experience from salons who actually know what they're on about. A good stylist, with a variety of knowledge, skills and experience is worth their weight in gold. If you find another way to learn what they wont teach you at school, In the end your probably helping to make yourself a more qualified professional.

ellen732
April 14th, 2012, 11:50 AM
When I said hair is hair, I meant the techniques you learn are applied to all hair types, it is not discriminatory. If someone with straight hair and someone with curly hair ask me for the same style and show me the same picture it is going to be cut the same way to achieve the outcome.

misspriss
April 14th, 2012, 12:16 PM
I have to agree, straight, wavy, curly, and kinky just barely begin to describe the differences in hair types. I am of the opinion that people are mostly only taught to cut and care for straight hair. I hated my wavy/slightly curly hair for years because I went to stylists who had no idea how to treat my hair. I went to plenty of them. Some even repeatedly. It wasn't that bad though, I started growing my hair long because of that.

Now I found a stylist, through naturallycurly.com (through their stylist reviews), who although he doesn't specialize in curly hair, knows how to cut and care for it. I have never gotten a truly bad haircut from him. I only lament the fact that since I like my hair long, I see him every 6 months to 2 years...*sigh*. I mean, he went gray one time between visits! I almost didn't recognize him! But anyway, stylists who know how to cut curly hair are not all that common.

CurlyCap
April 14th, 2012, 12:40 PM
If someone with straight hair and someone with curly hair ask me for the same style and show me the same picture it is going to be cut the same way to achieve the outcome.

Nope. Can't agree.

If I show a stylist a picture of a great, layered, mostly straight look with lots of "volume" (a great example would be UltraBelle's reference photo for her new haircut), a stylist who knows curly hair would be able to say that they can cut my hair with the same length layers, they might even be able to press it and get my hair straight temporarily (and my hair is fine and straightens well), but it will never look like the photo because my hair doesn't act like that when it's straight. It's in a highly unnatural state and will never be as awesome as the same cut would be on a woman with straight hair than retains body. However, my 1c-2b friends can probably pull it off with just the addition of some blow-drying to mildly straighten their hair.

Likewise, a straight haired lady may want a mega-volume-curly-crazy look. Perms, curlers, hot tools, and product will curl the hair and give it tremendous volume but they'll never get the look I could get by just shaking my head really hard. My curl pattern starts pretty much at the scalp and each hair is textured so it easily catches on its neighbors to make massive volume (and styles) easily. A perfect example is when people with straight hair get updos and then put curls to fall around their face. It just will never look the same as a curly who has her hair up and lets a few layers down to get face framing curls. Similarly, I will never have the sleek, sophisticated, shiny french twist look. My updos tend to play up the fact that I can easily add architecture to my hair. "Sleekness" is not its strength.

Different hair types are different beasts and wildly different hair types can be neither cut nor styled the same way. Often, they can't even reach the same endpoints, only "similar" endpoints.

carolinaberry
April 14th, 2012, 12:47 PM
If stylists think there is no option for natural hair, they will pass that "expertise" on to their clients, many of whom will buy into that advice.

This also explains why when my daughter (who has 3c-4a hair) was younger and I would take her to a salon for just a small trim for splits, they would try to dry-brush her hair (I mean, violently yanking it through her hair), get *angry* when it puffed out as a result, then bitch the whole time about how I needed to put a relaxer in her hair. (I literally had to grab the spray bottle, dampen her hair myself, then go without permission and get a couple of pumps of conditioner and put it in her damp hair then comb it with a wide tooth comb to show them how to prepare hair like hers for a simple trim). They also insisted I was ruining her hair and making it break by putting nothing but conditioner in it, which I had figured out to do all on my own when she was 3 and had grown longer hair)...so I stopped this until I found Teri LaFlesh online.

This it is certainly *discrimination* against hair that refuses to stay inside of what the beauty industry wants. There is a stigma against natural hair in our society-That's why they only know one way to cut spiral curls or heavier waves-in the same layered cut across America. My hair is fairly straight (1b-1c) and I was told 5 years ago in a salon that I should flat iron *every day* in order to make my hair look "its best". So the discrimination against curly hair, I think, is due to the beauty industry wanting women to have to buy lots of appliances and products. They WANT you guys, the future stylists, to be of the mindset that people with curly hair should/will get it straightened, so that you can pressure your future curly clients into chemical processes or styling appliances they don't need! See-womenn with straighter hair (even chemically straightened) will likely still purchase blowdryers, curling irons, flat irons, etc...but a woman who embraces her natural curls or waves won't touch any of those things, so if you can't convince them their hair should be straighter, you've lost money.

leslissocool
April 14th, 2012, 12:58 PM
But hair is hair. It's cut and styled exactly the same.

So then why are there Curl Specialists?

I've got "wavy" hair and I can tell you, my hair CANNOT be cut the same way a straight hair can. That's why you go to the salon, it gets styled and looking pretty, then you wash it at home and you see your cut with your natural texture and it looks like CRAP! That's happened to me so many times :( that's why I have my hair cut by BFF, who's a curly haired licensed professional. She's the only one who'd cut my hair and made it look good, no matter what. She knows how to deal with curls.

BeckyAH
April 14th, 2012, 01:11 PM
When I said hair is hair, I meant the techniques you learn are applied to all hair types, it is not discriminatory. If someone with straight hair and someone with curly hair ask me for the same style and show me the same picture it is going to be cut the same way to achieve the outcome.


No.

Because curl patterns get disrupted, and god help what the result is if it's straightened and then cut, because every 'clump' of hair is different. Movement's different. Texture's different.

It is not the same hair.

You can cut it the same way, but the outcome is never going to be the same. That just - defies logic and sense.

Sisgoldenhair65
April 14th, 2012, 01:26 PM
My daughter is in cosmetology school here in NJ. I will have to ask her about this subject. Interesting.

CurlyCap
April 14th, 2012, 01:27 PM
So the discrimination against curly hair, I think, is due to the beauty industry wanting women to have to buy lots of appliances and products. They WANT you guys, the future stylists, to be of the mindset that people with curly hair should/will get it straightened, so that you can pressure your future curly clients into chemical processes or styling appliances they don't need! See-womenn with straighter hair (even chemically straightened) will likely still purchase blowdryers, curling irons, flat irons, etc...but a woman who embraces her natural curls or waves won't touch any of those things, so if you can't convince them their hair should be straighter, you've lost money.

I actually think it's even simpler than that.

Curly hair is easy to take care of, but usually, nothing about its care is fast or frugal.

Washing and conditioning curly hair takes patience and lots of product. Detangling curly hair takes time and lots of product. Styling requires the patience to work with the hair and not against it Finally, drying is best when allowed to happen naturally, and for many that takes hours.

Curly haircare and styling is not the domain of the 45min hair salon appointment. The hair washers at my salon get frustrated when they realize a spritz doesn't even dampen my hair. They start to mutter when they realize that 1, 2 or even 3 pumps of their fancy conditioner won't saturate my hair. My stylist has to reassure them and say "She's gonna put a huge hole in the conditioner. It's okay. Just use what you need." The hair washers are worried about using too much product.

When it comes to hair cutting, there is no easy way to contain my hair, even when it's wet. It fights every clamp and pin and attacks scissors. The little black comb every stylist relies on is pretty useless in my hair, but anything larger doesn't give them the precision they need. In the end they have to cut VERY SLOWLY.

Similarly, the stylists get VERY frustrated with me when I ask to leave their chair with wet hair saying, "Oh, it'll dry eventually." Any curly knows why I do this, but I guess professionally it must look awful to have your client pay her bill all soppy and unfinished looking. I consented once to sitting under my stylist's fancy drier (radiant heat? I looks like a spinning UFO) and she realized that even heat applied that way only baked my conditioner solid, it didn't allow natural curl formation. Only then did she stop complaining about my leaving her chair wet.

It takes me usually an hour to 1.5hrs to get a trim. Just a trim, nothing fancy. And as I said above, my hair isn't that curly.

Nothing about curly hair is fast or cheap, and that's bad for profit and running of an appointment-based business model.

(For comparison, most black salons realize that things are going to take hours. Women and stylists block off half days or whole days for the parlor and the stylist just rotates between different clients in different stages of "doneness". I don't know much about the parlors that do perms and such, but at least in natural hair care salons, it's a relief to be left alone to "just let your hair dry until it's only damp, and then we'll do some shaping".)

Amanah
April 14th, 2012, 01:28 PM
I live in Florida also. There are salons that cater to straight to wavy hair and other salons that cater to ethnic hair. I don't know for sure, but I'm wondering if the knowledge on how to style very very curly hair is not taught in cosmetology school but is handed down from one stylist to another.

I have attended churches that teach that women should have uncut hair.
Many black sisters have said that if they don't trim their hair it will break off.

I think that very very curly hair must be much different in many aspects from straight to wavy, or even slightly curly hair.

CurlyCap
April 14th, 2012, 01:43 PM
I'm sorry I'm commenting so much on this thread, but it's a topic near and dear to my heart. I see a lot of neglect of curly or type 4 hair because of sheer frustration with trying to get professional hair care. And the issue is based on the problems people have discussed above.

However, I just wanted to state that sometimes, it also boils down to lack of exposure. If few women with black hair come into your salon (for lots of reasons) and therefore you have little or no reason to work with it, you aren't going to know that your technique doesn't translate well across hair types. It's honest ignorance.

For example, I LOVE updos and hair styling. And with my hair, it's pretty easy. I've always received compliments on my updos and I didn't understand why people with straight hair only do them for special occasions like weddings or prom. Then I started to babysit my friend's little girl (blonde, type 1b? hair that seems pin straight to me) who LOVES Ms. Curly Cap's hair toys, she asked me to do her hair just like mine. It was only when I was sitting on their couch, with her fine slippery hair sliding all over the place that I realized the difficulties in styling straight hair. Structures that I can secure with one pin took 4 or 5 in her hair. She had no volume to hid pins or mistakes. She was used to having her hair pulled on in order to generate enough tension for a braid. It was all very baffling.

So now I have a huge appreciation for when I see the posted pictures here of intricate braids or updos. It's a skill set to style hair that is so slippery. But I had to try myself before I truly got how different straight hair is from mine to work with.

Some of the issues with learning to work with curly and type 4 hair are the same, but from the opposite perspective.

barely.there
April 14th, 2012, 01:43 PM
Visiting Memphis, TN, there is a large black population here. I have seen many special hair salons that only work with afro hair. many black women around here have some pretty unique styles! Then men usually wear their hair buzzed or in corn-rolls. There is also a fairly large selection of hair products for ethic folks in pharmacies and grocery stores. If you want this sort of education, you may have to go somewhere special for it.

ellen732
April 14th, 2012, 02:00 PM
No.

Because curl patterns get disrupted, and god help what the result is if it's straightened and then cut, because every 'clump' of hair is different. Movement's different. Texture's different.

It is not the same hair.

You can cut it the same way, but the outcome is never going to be the same. That just - defies logic and sense.

You are right. I have no idea what I am talking about. So sorry for posting.

princessp
April 14th, 2012, 03:49 PM
Curly haircare and styling is not the domain of the 45min hair salon appointment. The hair washers at my salon get frustrated when they realize a spritz doesn't even dampen my hair. They start to mutter when they realize that 1, 2 or even 3 pumps of their fancy conditioner won't saturate my hair. My stylist has to reassure them and say "She's gonna put a huge hole in the conditioner. It's okay. Just use what you need." The hair washers are worried about using too much product.
Yes good point. Curls hide length too plus if you are on the thicker side that just adds to the issue. I remember when I used to get my hair highlighted and the stylist would whip up a "big" batch you because my hair is long and thick. I would always say (to myself) yeah you think that so called big batch is going to cut it? Lol, you are going to need another "big" batch of that and about 2 more hours than you think. And s/he always seemed surprised and somewhat annoyed by that. There are not too many stylist who have that kind of patience or are used to spending that much time on someone. But in the end I paid a lot more to get my hair done than someone with shorter, thinner, less curly hair.

Miss Catrina
April 14th, 2012, 05:00 PM
My school is mainly white, but it's the same with me. Our kit comes with 4 mannequins, all of them "white". There is a surplus of "ethnic" mannequins lying around for us to play with, but none of them really seem very true to life. One of them basically comes with relaxed hair. At least one of my teachers has been campaigning for a more textured mannequin.

We did have a class devoted to "textured" hair, and we had to bring in models, and we did learn how to do relaxers (it was so hard to get through that class without telling my teacher off). But that's about it.

Personally I'm not too worried about it in terms of the future. I feel bad saying so but I do feel that salons tend to be a bit "segregated" anyway.... there are a great number of salons/beauty shops I see that I would be uncomfortable going in, because I feel I would get funny looks for being white.

Miss Catrina
April 14th, 2012, 05:31 PM
I wish that weren't the case. I've enjoyed what limited experience I've had with truly curly hair - although all of them have been cases of straightening it out one way or another. :rolleyes:

I would love to work with it more, but it's difficult because I have very strong feelings about relaxers (I never want to do one in my life), and unfortunately that's what a lot of working with texture is.

midsummernight
April 14th, 2012, 08:02 PM
My worst experience at a salon had been for prom few years ago. I have thick curly fizzy hair and wanted smooth curling iron curls. I didnt know much about hair back then, even less about curlers and flat irons. The person who was doing my hair was nice at first. She was amazed at my thick long hair. I took 2 hours to do my hair. Instead to flat ironing first and then curling it, she decided to curl it. By the time she finished my hair she lost a few customers and she was angry at me. I had to pay extra money than she had originally said because apparently it was my fault she took so long on my hair. Its not like she hadnt seen what my hair looked like when I first went to her and asked how much it would be. The worst part is the curls didnt even last one hour. My hair just went flat.

Next horrible incident was when I decided I wanted to do copolla keratin treatment. This person outright lied to me. She told me that it would smmothen out my curls and make my hair wavy for 3 months. It didnt work on my hair. Instead I had severe hair fall. There was only a slight reduction in frizz. Anyways she was kind enough to return part of the cash.

Recently I went to a salon near me to a trim. I got my hair washed and trimmed. It looked fine except later I noticed that she did not cut my hair evenly.

My point is I agree with you. Beauty schools are only teaching how to style straight or wavy hair. I feel bad for people with curlier hair than me that tries to go in to cut or style their hair at these salons.

carolinaberry
April 14th, 2012, 10:24 PM
Yes good point. Curls hide length too plus if you are on the thicker side that just adds to the issue. I remember when I used to get my hair highlighted and the stylist would whip up a "big" batch you because my hair is long and thick. I would always say (to myself) yeah you think that so called big batch is going to cut it? Lol, you are going to need another "big" batch of that and about 2 more hours than you think. And s/he always seemed surprised and somewhat annoyed by that. There are not too many stylist who have that kind of patience or are used to spending that much time on someone. But in the end I paid a lot more to get my hair done than someone with shorter, thinner, less curly hair.

This has always happened to me with perms. Not because I have curly hair, but because I have a lot of hair. I guess because my hair is not curly, they expect it to be thin? Anyway, even when I warned them ahead of time that they needed 2 boxes of perm solution, maybe more, they would chuckle and usually only be prepared with one box. Then halfway through putting in the curlers in, they would be in a tiff, rushing their movements, making comments (in the disguise of joking)...and would usually still use just one box....if they refused to use 2 like I told them they need, the perm would not take and they would end up having to redo it and be mad at *me*. I also get fussed at a bit every time I go in for a trim b/c it takes longer than a "trim" should take. Not nearly what curly headed girls go through, but just an illustration of how the average salon isn't prepared to deal with anything out of the average.

lacefrost
April 14th, 2012, 10:40 PM
I second what a lot of people have written.

I also want to add that as a 4a with bits of 3c and two sections of 2b, sometimes curlies have to get their hair cut when straight. I can only cut my hair straight because I wear braids a lot. I also wear braid waves and rope braids. I wear it in a lot of different styles. So what looks even when my hair is afro'd does not look even when my hair is braided.

I basically have to get my hair cut into a V-hemline while it's straight. That way, when it's braided or curly or whatever, it'll look like a nice deep U, shallow U or blunt cut. If it's cut any other way, my 2b sections (above my ear) are either waaaay too short or waaay too long.

Curly hair is just a different ballgame. And it differs so much from head to head. What works for me, might not work for HappyHair87, for example.

AnqeIicDemise
April 15th, 2012, 12:42 AM
If stylists think there is no option for natural hair, they will pass that "expertise" on to their clients, many of whom will buy into that advice.

This also explains why when my daughter (who has 3c-4a hair) was younger and I would take her to a salon for just a small trim for splits, they would try to dry-brush her hair (I mean, violently yanking it through her hair), get *angry* when it puffed out as a result, then bitch the whole time about how I needed to put a relaxer in her hair. (I literally had to grab the spray bottle, dampen her hair myself, then go without permission and get a couple of pumps of conditioner and put it in her damp hair then comb it with a wide tooth comb to show them how to prepare hair like hers for a simple trim). They also insisted I was ruining her hair and making it break by putting nothing but conditioner in it, which I had figured out to do all on my own when she was 3 and had grown longer hair)...so I stopped this until I found Teri LaFlesh online.

This it is certainly *discrimination* against hair that refuses to stay inside of what the beauty industry wants. There is a stigma against natural hair in our society-That's why they only know one way to cut spiral curls or heavier waves-in the same layered cut across America. My hair is fairly straight (1b-1c) and I was told 5 years ago in a salon that I should flat iron *every day* in order to make my hair look "its best". So the discrimination against curly hair, I think, is due to the beauty industry wanting women to have to buy lots of appliances and products. They WANT you guys, the future stylists, to be of the mindset that people with curly hair should/will get it straightened, so that you can pressure your future curly clients into chemical processes or styling appliances they don't need! See-womenn with straighter hair (even chemically straightened) will likely still purchase blowdryers, curling irons, flat irons, etc...but a woman who embraces her natural curls or waves won't touch any of those things, so if you can't convince them their hair should be straighter, you've lost money.


I have to agree with this. I saw it at work a few months ago. One gal has gorgeous, cork screw, naturally vibrant red spirals. She got a promotion to help guests that come in to the salon quite frequently and one of the best pieces of advice a supervisor gave her so said employee could go up the corporate latter was to tame those curls. And perhaps get a darker hair color.

:confused:

We work at a call center and nobody ever really stops by except maybe the artists we book for.

I miss her vibrant red curls. She's got her hair toned down to a dark auburn and she flat irons it every day she's in the office. Another gal in a similar position does the same thing and neither woman can figure out why their hair just stalls at APL.

carolinaberry
April 15th, 2012, 01:33 AM
Curly haircare and styling is not the domain of the 45min hair salon appointment. The hair washers at my salon get frustrated when they realize a spritz doesn't even dampen my hair. They start to mutter when they realize that 1, 2 or even 3 pumps of their fancy conditioner won't saturate my hair. My stylist has to reassure them and say "She's gonna put a huge hole in the conditioner. It's okay. Just use what you need." The hair washers are worried about using too much product.



I realize that you are talking about how the hair washers react in general to needing to use more than the usual amount of product, but ...Now that she's 13, a couple of pumps wouldn't work for her hair either. I was referring to an incident that occurred when she was 4. Now when we detangle her hair, we use at least 2 palms full to begin with and add little bits as needed for us to comb. But they are really taught that it is a hair sin to leave conditioner in the hair-it is "damaging". Yet they encourage chemical or heat processing. That is what I meant by it being more profitable for them to work against natural hair.

sfgirl
April 15th, 2012, 02:19 AM
I think a large part of cosmetology is going to seminars and reading books and doing research yourself. The best people to ever do me and my mom's hair were in the business 10+ years and still learning. There's going to be techniques you need to learn yourself. Get a mannequin wit curly hair and practice yourself.
I'm not in cosmetology, I'm in fashion, but there's a lot of similarities. The best students in my class are going out and learning stuff outside the classroom, not just what they teach us here.

I don't think it's discrimination, it's just beauty school is only so long. A lot of people (not all I know though of course!!!) go for a quick way to have a career, not to get a BFA in hair design.

torrilin
April 15th, 2012, 06:34 PM
For example, I LOVE updos and hair styling. And with my hair, it's pretty easy. I've always received compliments on my updos and I didn't understand why people with straight hair only do them for special occasions like weddings or prom. Then I started to babysit my friend's little girl (blonde, type 1b? hair that seems pin straight to me) who LOVES Ms. Curly Cap's hair toys, she asked me to do her hair just like mine. It was only when I was sitting on their couch, with her fine slippery hair sliding all over the place that I realized the difficulties in styling straight hair. Structures that I can secure with one pin took 4 or 5 in her hair. She had no volume to hid pins or mistakes. She was used to having her hair pulled on in order to generate enough tension for a braid. It was all very baffling.

Hee.

Actually, you probably *don't* have to tug as much. For a lot of intricate styles, I can hold them with one or two pins... when my hair is long enough. That might be a solid six inches past the first theoretical possibility of the style. No joke. Same kind of deal goes for braids. My braid at waist length (30+ inches) is a lot more secure than my braid was 6 inches ago, even tho I do it more loosely.

A lot also depends on the hair toy I use... the right toys, I can go with 3 or less. Wrong ones? Literally no power on earth will let my hair stay up. A lot of the standard advice on styling hair is just backwards for fine and slippery too. Fairly big hair pins tend to work better for us than smaller. Thicker tends to be better. And the more times you can get the toy to weave in and out of scalp hair and bun hair, the better. It really is almost like sewing my hair to my head :D.

But some of the stuff you're citing as principles of good curly cutting actually go for my hair as well, even tho it's so much straighter. I'd actually make a point of going to beauty schools for haircuts so young stylists could get to handle something vaguely resembling real long hair. It pretty much always took them 3-4 times as long to handle my hair as it'd take me to do the same task. They'd often underestimate how much water and product it'd take... sometimes by a lot. (at some schools, students aren't encouraged to use conditioner on every customer... which on fine hair is pretty much a disaster waiting to happen) Frequently, I'd end up being an impromptu class because the students see even BSL length hair so rarely.

It's pretty rare for an instructor to give the student wrong information for my hair type, thank goodness. But some students just don't think to ask for help when all of a sudden they've got someone with what looks like a normal head of hair that just kind of explodes into a 2-3 hour job on them.