Hollyfire's hair update

[Hollyfire3]

I know, most are probably sick of hearing about my hair issues, but i need help so i am back posting another thread. I would like to update my progress, although i have no pictures to share. My hair now has some loose, very loose wave/curl, I have since used some expensive shampoo and conditioner called ojon in the form of a one use sample from sephora, the line was cone free and was supposed to volumize, it did not voumize (too much protein i believe, this is the issue i have with many volume lines, protein makes my hair flat) but it DID bring back curls! Many curls, some ringlets even! I think it was the silicone free part? Also, the week before i tried mixing many many conditioners (2 leave in, 2 wash out, 2 hair masks, 2 deep conditioners) of varying times, protein and moisture, left it in over night and rinsed in the morning, this gave me some curls (not as much as the sample stuff) but my hair was just kinda, flat. I have not come on here to complain, i have come on here to figure out where to go next with my issues. I now know progress is possible, as evident in my hair, and i am a bit better with all of this. I have excepted my hair is damaged and fried and needs YEARS, but i also know with just the right combination, i get nearly normal hair, i have yet to find this combination. As of today, my hair is loose waves not even 2b, it has some but only a little of my natural volume back, and it seems, alright, not terrible, flat and straight like i have had it, but just, alright. I also now use a curl enhancing product, and this is alright but is protein heavy, which might pose a problem in the near furture. where should i go from here? I would like to try coconut oil, but am not sure, i might try amla but also not sure, i would like to try cone free but again, not sure. So, i need advice, i can get coconut oil or cone free products tonight, but would feel better with the oil, as i have SO much hair crap to begin with although non are truely cone free (save vo5 that i don't really like). Which option is the best to try out of what i have listed? What would you suggest? Should i try protein or moisture next also? I know i am trying alot at once, please do not negativly comment on this, if something works, it works the first time for me, i am trying to solve a problem of unbalanced/strange hair and have done so by trying random things many times. When i try something for a long period of time, my hair tends to go out of wack and rebel yet again, it is about balance for me, not trying to find a solid routine as of now. I am leaning toward the coconut oil even if it does keep protein in, my hair may need it, but doesn't like certain kinds found in typical products. Any advice will be considered. Thank you and sorry for the long read.

[Amanah]

did you ever try the cury girl method of hair care?

conditioner only
infrequent washings
wide tooth comb only
finger comb it
no heat
air dry it

that sort of thing?

also, about the coconut oil, it's awesome. if you do try it, use just a tiny tiny bit, rub between your hands and just put on your hair from the ears down.l

[Hollyfire3]

did you ever try the cury girl method of hair care?

conditioner only
infrequent washings
wide tooth comb only
finger comb it
no heat
air dry it

that sort of thing?

also, about the coconut oil, it's awesome. if you do try it, use just a tiny tiny bit, rub between your hands and just put on your hair from the ears down.l


Before i CO i need a good cone free conditioner, my hair hates vo5 it makes it slick and it doesn't have a curl in sight. I air dry, i finger comb somtimes but i do brush. Now if i had know about the curly girl method BEFORE i found the straight iron, i would have WL or longer beautiful curls, now, though i fear the heat has taken my curls and made them ugly uneven waves (waves AREN'T ugly, but damage induced ones are!) i don't think i even have enough curl on a regular basis for CG to be effective, it you can recomend a cheap cone free conditioner and i can use mousse instead of gel ( my hair HATES gel, it is just NOT a pretty sight!) i will try CG, although i will need to clarify tonight then. What does coconut oil do? I am most likely getting that regardless.

[Kelikea]

I don't think coconut oil will help bring back your curls. I use it occasionally, sparingly, on my length and BBB it through, but mostly just for shine and smoothness. We may have similar hair types. If you go to my hair album, you can see lots of length shots, and many are right after washing. Most have what I washed/conditioned with under the picture. If you find one that looks good and like the way my hair is waving or behaving, it should tell you what I used on my hair. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[Hollyfire3]

I don't think coconut oil will help bring back your curls. I use it occasionally, sparingly, on my length and BBB it through, but mostly just for shine and smoothness. We may have similar hair types. If you go to my hair album, you can see lots of length shots, and many are right after washing. Most have what I washed/conditioned with under the picture. If you find one that looks good and like the way my hair is waving or behaving, it should tell you what I used on my hair. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

We ARE nearly hair twins, amazing! I will check out your album, look through and might PM also, thank you, i can use all the help i can get! Shine sounds good, but smoothness....my good old frizz has yet to show its face yet...i miss my hair!:(

[Kelikea]

I thought of something else:) Have you ever tried the oil-shampoo method? You use coconut oil mixed with shampoo and then an acidic rinse, no conditioner. There is a thread: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=65063
Since you want to try coconut oil anyway, you may like this. I have tried it with diluted Dr. Bronner's and also with Garnier Pure clean shampoo, but only liked it with the Dr. B's.

[Hollyfire3]

I thought of something else:) Have you ever tried the oil-shampoo method? You use coconut oil mixed with shampoo and then an acidic rinse, no conditioner. There is a thread: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=65063
Since you want to try coconut oil anyway, you may like this. I have tried it with diluted Dr. Bronner's and also with Garnier Pure clean shampoo, but only liked it with the Dr. B's.

Is Dr. Bronner's a drugstore brand? I want something i can get easily and cheaply in case i hate it (well, my hair hates it, which is a good possibility) I have FOUND my hair twin, its you! My hair looks JUST like yours when it is being perfect and balanced and good. What is the no-poo thing you do? Would i have to clarify first? Can i use mollases instead of honey? I am intrested in this and in oil shampoo as well. Only difference in our hairtype is that my hair is medium and possibly corse (i need to upload pics, some of my strands are so thick!) where as yours is f/m.

[Kelikea]

The green tea no-poo? Its just 2 bags of green tea, brewed in 2 cups of water, steeped 10 min. Then you add a tsp each of honey and acv. Wait for it to cool

[afu]

i had a very similar issue as you for the same reasons, i have found that a combination of CO washing (i still use some cones and havn't had a build up problem) followed by the occasional acid rinse (lemon juice rinses are good for defining curls), then towel drying, coconut oil applied from ear level down, a bit of scrunching then air drying has worked wonders :) good luck

[Hollyfire3]

i had a very similar issue as you for the same reasons, i have found that a combination of CO washing (i still use some cones and havn't had a build up problem) followed by the occasional acid rinse (lemon juice rinses are good for defining curls), then towel drying, coconut oil applied from ear level down, a bit of scrunching then air drying has worked wonders :) good luck


thank you, i need the luck! What do you use to CO wash? Does the lemon juice lighten hair?

[Kelikea]

Oops, sorry, I had to step away for a bit. the green tea no-poo recipe is two of everything--2 bags, 2 cups water, 2 tsp each of honey and acv. Let it cool and then pour into applicator bottle. Squeeze all over scalp, massaging as you go, and into the hair. Leave on, if possible, 10 min. Then rinse. I wouldn't recommend this method if you use a lot of product. I use it in between regular washing, just to freshen up. For example, if I wash Sunday and Thursday regularly, then I might use the green tea on Tues, Wed, or Sat if it is really hot or I work out or something.

[afu]

thank you, i need the luck! What do you use to CO wash? Does the lemon juice lighten hair?
I literally use anything to CO, i know i should be more consistant! the past couple of weeks i've travelled between my uni house, SOs house, mums house and friends house so anything has gone! i do like loreal though. I try not to use cones if possible but i don't purposefully avoid them. I never use conditoners which aim to add shine though.
Lemon juice can cause lightening, but in an acid rinse you use it at such low concentrations i can't see it having much of an effect

[Hollyfire3]

I literally use anything to CO, i know i should be more consistant! the past couple of weeks i've travelled between my uni house, SOs house, mums house and friends house so anything has gone! i do like loreal though. I try not to use cones if possible but i don't purposefully avoid them. I never use conditoners which aim to add shine though.
Lemon juice can cause lightening, but in an acid rinse you use it at such low concentrations i can't see it having much of an effect


Thank you for the info! I might try CO washing sometime soon, but still unsure on the lemn juice, what does it do for the curls?

[Hollyfire3]

Oops, sorry, I had to step away for a bit. the green tea no-poo recipe is two of everything--2 bags, 2 cups water, 2 tsp each of honey and acv. Let it cool and then pour into applicator bottle. Squeeze all over scalp, massaging as you go, and into the hair. Leave on, if possible, 10 min. Then rinse. I wouldn't recommend this method if you use a lot of product. I use it in between regular washing, just to freshen up. For example, if I wash Sunday and Thursday regularly, then I might use the green tea on Tues, Wed, or Sat if it is really hot or I work out or something.


Its fine, i understand, oh, yeah i use mousse ever wash day (which is every day lately) so i can't go no poo but in between washes when i get to strechting them again, that rinse might be good. Can i use mollases instead of honey? I don't want lighter hair....

[Kelikea]

The honey doesn't lighten the hair. You would have to do a honey lightening treatment for that, it would take a lot more than 10 min and 2 tsp of honey! My hair hasn't lightened at all while using it, and I spend around 1 hour a day in the sun without a hat (between work, walking dogs, and gardening).

The Dr. Bronner's can be found at Target, but I prefer to order it from vitacost.com
If you have Sprouts or another type of natural grocery store in your area, they might also carry it.
I have good luck using SLS free shampoos by Nature's Gate organics, Desert Essences Organics (with matching conditioner) or save money and use V05 strawberry conditioner or Suave everlasting sunshine (but this one might have hidden cones, not sure about all the names on the ingredient list.) I also use a vinegar rinse with almost every wash. The acv has more of a smell than the white, but the effects seem the same.

[mora]

Have you ever tried using catnip instead of conditioner? It seems like my hair is less straight when I've used it. I haven't read your previous posts in detail so I don't know if you've already ruled this method out. ktani, who really promoted catnip use (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=118) here, always suggests that catnip is best used on hair without any coatings or buildup from other products so I'm not sure how well it would work for you in that sense.

ETA:ktani uses the catnip to add blonde color to her hair but for someone with dark hair like you or me, the color doesn't show.

[afu]

have you considered giving up the mousse? i used to use mousse and serums, convinced that they must be doing me good - but after ditching them for lashings of conditioner (i also use just regular conditioner as a leave in for my ends) and coconut oil my hair is looking much better. I think it's something to do with the sugars in lemon juice which help to set curls, while the acidity restores a more natural pH

[holothuroidea]

I'm not a curly so I don't have much advice but I have lots of :grouphug: and :blossom: for you.

You'll find something that works, just keep trying! Also remember, less is more. :flower:

[Hollyfire3]

I'm not a curly so I don't have much advice but I have lots of :grouphug: and :blossom: for you.

You'll find something that works, just keep trying! Also remember, less is more. :flower:


Thank you for the encouragment and the hugs and flowers it makes me feel so good! I hope to find something that works but i am skeptical, i am now looking into oil shampoo, i think i have reached the i will try anything point because nothing at all seems to work and i seem to have lost all capacity for rational thought on this subject, so i am getting coconut oil tonight then trying oil shampoo, i want to keep it simple, really i do, but until simple starts to work, complicated it is! I am trying to use less in general though, i have now realized that even if my hair CAN take alot, that doesn't mean i should APPLY all of that at once!

[Hollyfire3]

have you considered giving up the mousse? i used to use mousse and serums, convinced that they must be doing me good - but after ditching them for lashings of conditioner (i also use just regular conditioner as a leave in for my ends) and coconut oil my hair is looking much better. I think it's something to do with the sugars in lemon juice which help to set curls, while the acidity restores a more natural pH


I have air dried many times with nothing in my hair i HAVE tried giving up the mousse and i don't like it. It is so unpredictable so one day i have bouncy full curls the next i have zero curls and a messy mess of hair...the mousse at least gives me ONE consistent variable, i really like it, i never intend to give it up, but one day, with better hair in better condition, i might, lemon juice sounds great, but i again am paranoid about lightening....

[Hollyfire3]

Have you ever tried using catnip instead of conditioner? It seems like my hair is less straight when I've used it. I haven't read your previous posts in detail so I don't know if you've already ruled this method out. ktani, who really promoted catnip use (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=118) here, always suggests that catnip is best used on hair without any coatings or buildup from other products so I'm not sure how well it would work for you in that sense.

ETA:ktani uses the catnip to add blonde color to her hair but for someone with dark hair like you or me, the color doesn't show.

Me and build up go together, no matter what i use, it comes from the beginigns of this problem involving months of heavy DT and other products to try and hide my fried hair. I have read up on catnip, but have never tried it, i am always worried my hair would be tangly and dry without conditioner, but i have a long list of things to try to see if they work, and catnip is on it somewhere, thank you for reminding me.

[Hollyfire3]

The honey doesn't lighten the hair. You would have to do a honey lightening treatment for that, it would take a lot more than 10 min and 2 tsp of honey! My hair hasn't lightened at all while using it, and I spend around 1 hour a day in the sun without a hat (between work, walking dogs, and gardening).

The Dr. Bronner's can be found at Target, but I prefer to order it from vitacost.com
If you have Sprouts or another type of natural grocery store in your area, they might also carry it.
I have good luck using SLS free shampoos by Nature's Gate organics, Desert Essences Organics (with matching conditioner) or save money and use V05 strawberry conditioner or Suave everlasting sunshine (but this one might have hidden cones, not sure about all the names on the ingredient list.) I also use a vinegar rinse with almost every wash. The acv has more of a smell than the white, but the effects seem the same.

Oh wow, seems my honey idea are wrong, thank you for clarifying. I am not all that keen on buying ANOTHER shampoo, but the ones you use seem to do wonders on your hair! I really should consider going cone and SLS free, again, it goes on my long list of things to try, but the results you get make me tempted to order some..... i have used ACV for a rinse, what does it do in your cleansing no-poo mix? Is your hair protein sensitive?

[jeanniet]

If you have hard water I strongly advise against using Dr. Bronner's because it's soap-based instead of detergent-based and won't work well with hard water. Sometimes if you do an acid rinse afterward it will be OK, but my water isn't overly hard and I have yet to have good success with any soap-based shampoos. If you do try the Dr. Bronner's, be cautious and use just a very small amount diluted with water, and follow with an acid rinse.

The only conditioner that works consistently for me with CO is Giovanni's Smooth As Silk. It doesn't pull curl out but does leave my hair well moisturized.

[Hollyfire3]

If you have hard water I strongly advise against using Dr. Bronner's because it's soap-based instead of detergent-based and won't work well with hard water. Sometimes if you do an acid rinse afterward it will be OK, but my water isn't overly hard and I have yet to have good success with any soap-based shampoos. If you do try the Dr. Bronner's, be cautious and use just a very small amount diluted with water, and follow with an acid rinse.

The only conditioner that works consistently for me with CO is Giovanni's Smooth As Silk. It doesn't pull curl out but does leave my hair well moisturized.


Oh, its soap based? I didn't know that, well we used to have hard water and have city water now, but i don't really want to take the chance. Is Giovanni's avaliable at Ulta? That stuff sounds great (then again, all do until i try them and get disapointed, stupid fincky hair!) But, if it doesn't pull out curl, i'm all for it! Do you ride horses btw? Your profile ic is awsome, is it you? Do you do dresage, english western pole bending? What do you do? Just curious, i also ride and LOVE it so much!

[Kelikea]

The Dr. Bronner's was only recommended for using diluted as an oil-shampoo with coconut oil, followed by acidic rinse. It actually foams up more for me when used this way. I would not suggest using it as a shampoo on its own.

As for the honey in the green tea no-poo I just wanted to say that it is rinsed out within 10 min, so that is why I don't worry about it. And I'm not sure what the vinegar does in the no-poo recipe, its not my recipe, I just followed it and shared it.

Have you ever considered a product swap? Find someone in your area that you could trade shampoo, conditioner, other products that you've tried but don't want. This could be a good way of not having to buy something new every time you want to try something else.

My hair does not seem to be protein sensitive. I had never even considered anything about protein until I read about protein vs. moisture on this forum. When I looked at products I've been using, several have protein. I see no difference in my hair using protein or no protein shampoos and conditioners. For example: Desert Essence S&C and suave everlasting sunshine (as well as my BS/ACV and green tea no-poo) do not seem to have protein, but the nature's gate organics and V05 strawberry and Mane&Tail do. My hair looks and feels very similar, regardless. The only time I notice a big difference is when the weather changes (temp and humidity, wind) or if I use heat. V05 vanilla mint tea makes my hair feel greasy. SLS leaves my scalp upset.

[Hollyfire3]

The Dr. Bronner's was only recommended for using diluted as an oil-shampoo with coconut oil, followed by acidic rinse. It actually foams up more for me when used this way. I would not suggest using it as a shampoo on its own.

As for the honey in the green tea no-poo I just wanted to say that it is rinsed out within 10 min, so that is why I don't worry about it. And I'm not sure what the vinegar does in the no-poo recipe, its not my recipe, I just followed it and shared it.

Have you ever considered a product swap? Find someone in your area that you could trade shampoo, conditioner, other products that you've tried but don't want. This could be a good way of not having to buy something new every time you want to try something else.

My hair does not seem to be protein sensitive. I had never even considered anything about protein until I read about protein vs. moisture on this forum. When I looked at products I've been using, several have protein. I see no difference in my hair using protein or no protein shampoos and conditioners. For example: Desert Essence S&C and suave everlasting sunshine (as well as my BS/ACV and green tea no-poo) do not seem to have protein, but the nature's gate organics and V05 strawberry and Mane&Tail do. My hair looks and feels very similar, regardless. The only time I notice a big difference is when the weather changes (temp and humidity, wind) or if I use heat. V05 vanilla mint tea makes my hair feel greasy. SLS leaves my scalp upset.

I have never even heard of a product swpa, how would i find one in my area, this sounds VERY helpful. My hair is protein senistive since i overdid protein masks for weeks and made it so brittle it was breaking off...not good, just not good. Your right, that little time with honey would do nothing to lighten, thank you for clarifying. You're lucky your hair only changes with the weather, before mine was damaged it did that, but now, it hates certain products, it also hates the weather no matter what it is, oh and it hates me too i mgiht add. Vo5 just makes my hair feel greasy, period, yucky, maybe the strawberry woudl be better? The Dr.Bronner's...hmm i wouldn't even know where to begin since i didn't know there was a difference in soap based shampoo and detergent based shampoo. Aparently, coconut oil is NOT available at Walmart all my plans of wonderful oil shampoo has been crushed for now, i have no idea what to do now....maybe tha green tea rinse? Does it add volume or curl? Oh what to do........

[Sillage]

Hollyfire, I think you should consider a spreadsheet or something to keep up with all the stuff you're doing and intend to try... google makes a nice one which is free and you can link to it too.

Glad to hear you had some success with the Ojon. IIRC palm oil is the star ingredient. Maybe that would be another thing to try. BTW, what mousse are you using? I know you said you don't want to give up mousse but would you be open to trying a different one?

[Kelikea]

Seriously, I would send you a sample of all of it if you lived close to me:) I see coconut oil in my grocery store next to the olive oil. Do you have a natural grocery store (like spouts, whole foods, wildflower market, sunharvest, etc?) You can find all of these things at one of those stores, but a little over priced. The best prices I've found on natural stuff has been vitacost and swansons. Some of it is hit and miss, but if you can find fellow "swappers" it could be fun.

The V05 strawberry and Mane&Tail both have protein, but I'm guessing since I only use the conditioner, that it is very moisture balanced with the protein, I don't get overload? And because I change up my products so often. I just get bored easily, and try something else:)

If you try the green tea or oil-shampoo, clarify first:) Just a simple BS/ACV rinse or a mild shampoo should be enough, immediately followed by the no-poo or oil-shampoo. And then a vinegar or acidic rinse after the oil-shampoo.

[Hollyfire3]

Seriously, I would send you a sample of all of it if you lived close to me:) I see coconut oil in my grocery store next to the olive oil. Do you have a natural grocery store (like spouts, whole foods, wildflower market, sunharvest, etc?) You can find all of these things at one of those stores, but a little over priced. The best prices I've found on natural stuff has been vitacost and swansons. Some of it is hit and miss, but if you can find fellow "swappers" it could be fun.

The V05 strawberry and Mane&Tail both have protein, but I'm guessing since I only use the conditioner, that it is very moisture balanced with the protein, I don't get overload? And because I change up my products so often. I just get bored easily, and try something else:)

If you try the green tea or oil-shampoo, clarify first:) Just a simple BS/ACV rinse or a mild shampoo should be enough, immediately followed by the no-poo or oil-shampoo. And then a vinegar or acidic rinse after the oil-shampoo.

we have a whole foods, but it is a bit far and i agree, they over price things,yes, changing up products is most likely why you have no issues with protein. You would send samples? Wow, that's a very nice offer, thank you! You follow oil shampoo with a rinse? I read as long as you don't have hard water you should be fine, is this true? The green tea mix sounds tempting but i will have to save it for when i don't have to get up early, the oil shampoo will have to wait until at least tommrow when i can get out to a natural store for coconut oil. Thank you for all the help! Keep in touch, i will most likely be PMing you!:)

[Hollyfire3]

Hollyfire, I think you should consider a spreadsheet or something to keep up with all the stuff you're doing and intend to try... google makes a nice one which is free and you can link to it too.

Glad to hear you had some success with the Ojon. IIRC palm oil is the star ingredient. Maybe that would be another thing to try. BTW, what mousse are you using? I know you said you don't want to give up mousse but would you be open to trying a different one?

Very good idea! I have a spreadsheet program on my computer, i should use it! yes, the Ojon was okay, it made lots of curls come out! Palm oil is in it? Hmmm, can that be used for oil shampoo? My mousse is got 2 be thickening mousse, the yellow can, i use it for curls because it is the only mousse i can stand, it has protein like most mousses but my hair likes it alot, it is creamier than most mousses and holds curl very well, this is why i use it, i can't imagine using it for fine or thin hair, it would weigh it down, so how they have it as a volumizing product, i will never know! But yes, i am willing to try any reasonably priced mousse, well maybe even not so reasonably priced if it works, but i do use quite a bit and i know that sounds bad, but i have tried to alter it and change it and go without, alot of mousse just works for me, my hair can take it all, it is not an issue, but i would certainly like to try some others maybe?

[Kelikea]

I think palm oil is similar to coconut oil, so you may like oil-shampoo. And yes, oil-shampoo is followed by an acidic rinse. It balances the pH and other stuff, don't remember now, lol! The thread I linked before goes into detail of all of it. PM me. I may find a way to get some stuff to you. And you really should be able to find coconut oil at the regular grocery store, since not at Walmart, but the price is good at http://www.swansonvitamins.com/ and their brand is very good. If you find you don't like it for hair, it is very good for cooking and eating. I buy vitamins, soap, and coconut oil from this site. They have some very good products. I love Nubian Heritage bar soap!

[Sillage]

I don't have any experience with palm oil-- but at least it's cheaper than Ojon! The Beauty Brains seem to think that a coconut oil based product would work just as well (http://thebeautybrains.com/2006/05/24/is-ojon-restorative-treatment-any-good/) so maybe sticking to your original idea of trying coconut oil would be best.

Got2B mousse has denatured alcohol in it but it's pretty far down on the list so maybe it's not really an issue at all. Is there such a thing as a moisturizing mousse? Maybe I'm going in a totally wrong direction with this as you've already got a ton of stuff to try and experiment with.

Really hope you get to try the coconut oil. The first time I used it as a leave in was like a revelation. My hair was silicone shiny, super soft, and moisturized. Of course I had to stop using it because it made me break out but I'm still able to use it as a pre shampoo treatment at least. With any luck it will moisturize your hair and help bring back the curl :flower:

[Hollyfire3]

I don't have any experience with palm oil-- but at least it's cheaper than Ojon! The Beauty Brains seem to think that a coconut oil based product would work just as well (http://thebeautybrains.com/2006/05/24/is-ojon-restorative-treatment-any-good/) so maybe sticking to your original idea of trying coconut oil would be best.

Got2B mousse has denatured alcohol in it but it's pretty far down on the list so maybe it's not really an issue at all. Is there such a thing as a moisturizing mousse? Maybe I'm going in a totally wrong direction with this as you've already got a ton of stuff to try and experiment with.

Really hope you get to try the coconut oil. The first time I used it as a leave in was like a revelation. My hair was silicone shiny, super soft, and moisturized. Of course I had to stop using it because it made me break out but I'm still able to use it as a pre shampoo treatment at least. With any luck it will moisturize your hair and help bring back the curl :flower:

I plopped with gel last night and got hard, still damp curls, but at least i got some curls....i'm off to search for coconut oil and maybe palm oil after work today, wish me luck! Moisturizing mousse....hmmm, i'll take any suggestions please! I have tried alot and have a lot i want to try, but it is all based on what has the highest possibility of working and the oil shampoo seems most likely right now, but if that doesn't work, i'm open because i don't know if i should buy all of the things i WANT to try.

[Hollyfire3]

I think palm oil is similar to coconut oil, so you may like oil-shampoo. And yes, oil-shampoo is followed by an acidic rinse. It balances the pH and other stuff, don't remember now, lol! The thread I linked before goes into detail of all of it. PM me. I may find a way to get some stuff to you. And you really should be able to find coconut oil at the regular grocery store, since not at Walmart, but the price is good at http://www.swansonvitamins.com/ and their brand is very good. If you find you don't like it for hair, it is very good for cooking and eating. I buy vitamins, soap, and coconut oil from this site. They have some very good products. I love Nubian Heritage bar soap!

Ohh thank you! i will browse that site but will continue to look for coconut oil at other places, maybe another walmart will have it? Its crazy, Walmart listed it as a product in their online store....annoying store

[fridgee]

I plopped with gel last night and got hard, still damp curls, but at least i got some curls....i'm off to search for coconut oil and maybe palm oil after work today, wish me luck! Moisturizing mousse....hmmm, i'll take any suggestions please! I have tried alot and have a lot i want to try, but it is all based on what has the highest possibility of working and the oil shampoo seems most likely right now, but if that doesn't work, i'm open because i don't know if i should buy all of the things i WANT to try.

Gel will generally end up going hard BUT if you wait until your hair is 100% dry you can then 'scrunch the crunch' that is scrunch your hair with your hands (like when trying to define curls) which will remove the crunchiness of the gel leaving soft well defined curls. Basically the gel dries and defines and holds the curl, then once it's set you break up the hardened gel and your hair stays in shape. You do have to have the patience to let it dry allllll the way first tho (which I don't have so I use curl cream :p) but if plopping plus gel gave your curls it sounds like this might work well for you. :flower: I really hope you find something that works for you and you can start to enjoy your hair again.

ETA: you don't have to plop until totally dry, just long enough to form the curl then you can let it air dry the rest of the way. For me plopping for 10 mins is enough, if I left it in there it would never dry!

[Hollyfire3]

Gel will generally end up going hard BUT if you wait until your hair is 100% dry you can then 'scrunch the crunch' that is scrunch your hair with your hands (like when trying to define curls) which will remove the crunchiness of the gel leaving soft well defined curls. Basically the gel dries and defines and holds the curl, then once it's set you break up the hardened gel and your hair stays in shape. You do have to have the patience to let it dry allllll the way first tho (which I don't have so I use curl cream :p) but if plopping plus gel gave your curls it sounds like this might work well for you. :flower: I really hope you find something that works for you and you can start to enjoy your hair again.

ETA: you don't have to plop until totally dry, just long enough to form the curl then you can let it air dry the rest of the way. For me plopping for 10 mins is enough, if I left it in there it would never dry!

Yeah, 8 hours later, plopping, my hair was still damp, quite damp actually and I combed out the rest of the gel after scrunching, i am VERY happy i got some curls, but they are tight waves, not big full curls that i get naturally, so i might have to experiment, i used a leave in conditioner/curl cream before i plopped with the gel though. I don't really enjoy this look, it looks too tight to be natural but its a start!:)

[ktani]

Palm oil is not similar to coconut oil. Palm kernel oil is similar to coconut oil. They are very different oils (palm and palm kernel).

[Hollyfire3]

Palm oil is not similar to coconut oil. Palm kernel oil is similar to coconut oil. They are very different oils (palm and palm kernel).

Oh, I had no idea, what is your take on what i am considering doing?

[janeytilllie]

My hair type is very simular to yours :) I have opposite problem, I want to rid my waves and curls.

There is one for me that really brings my waves out and makes it go boom.
that is Aloe Vera.

Aloe vera seems to give me lots of volume and strong waves. I make a SMT with it. I mix it in with cone free conditioner and Honey.

(Pictures clickable)

My waves normally
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?pictureid=67840&albumid=2296&dl=1311345725&thumb=1 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2296&pictureid=67840)

My hair after a SMT with Aloe vera
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?pictureid=65393&albumid=2286&dl=1304753045&thumb=1 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2286&pictureid=65393)

Tresemme's naturals Avocado and Aloe vera moisture (cone free) conditoner has the same effect too
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?pictureid=90806&albumid=2296&dl=1311345725&thumb=1 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2296&pictureid=90806)

Good luck! :)

[Sillage]

I plopped with gel last night and got hard, still damp curls, but at least i got some curls....i'm off to search for coconut oil and maybe palm oil after work today, wish me luck!

YAY CURLS! Good luck with your coconut oil quest. :)


Moisturizing mousse....hmmm, i'll take any suggestions please! I have tried alot and have a lot i want to try, but it is all based on what has the highest possibility of working and the oil shampoo seems most likely right now, but if that doesn't work, i'm open because i don't know if i should buy all of the things i WANT to try.


LOL I know the feeling. I say go with the coconut oil shampoo first and then maybe try a little tiny tiny bit coconut oil as a leave in before you put in your mousse IF the coconut oil shampoo doesn't give you the results you want.

[afu]

i would definitly recommend coconut oil over palm as coconut oil actually penetrates into the hair cuticle, whereas most oils just sit on top as a kind of protective sealant. I couldn't find it in shops close to me but managed to get it off Amazon in the end, when you're looking for it try to go for the virgin kind.

I understand you wanting to stick with the mousse, maybe when you've done some more experimenting however you might be able to replace it. coconut oil seems to have replaced almost everything in my 'beauty' regime - i use it on my hair combined with deep treatments, in oil shampoo after clarifying, as a pre-wash, as a leave in, as a body and facial moisturiser, lip balm, for leg shaving, as a deoderant, in cooking... - the possibilities are endless, hehe.

[ladonna]

I am watching your posts. How did you do the plopping? I have seen a few different methods. Did you try the green tea shampoo? If you do will you let me know how it worked?

[Hollyfire3]

My hair type is very simular to yours :) I have opposite problem, I want to rid my waves and curls.

There is one for me that really brings my waves out and makes it go boom.
that is Aloe Vera.

Aloe vera seems to give me lots of volume and strong waves. I make a SMT with it. I mix it in with cone free conditioner and Honey.

(Pictures clickable)

My waves normally
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?pictureid=67840&albumid=2296&dl=1311345725&thumb=1 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2296&pictureid=67840)

My hair after a SMT with Aloe vera
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?pictureid=65393&albumid=2286&dl=1304753045&thumb=1 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2286&pictureid=65393)

Tresemme's naturals Avocado and Aloe vera moisture (cone free) conditoner has the same effect too
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?pictureid=90806&albumid=2296&dl=1311345725&thumb=1 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2296&pictureid=90806)

Good luck! :)

You hair looks JUST like mine in that second pic...all these hair twins, its SCARY lol! Thanks, i like aloe too, i make a SMT with it using Aussie 3 minute miracle and mollasses, maybe the cones mess with my curls? What cone free conditioner do you use? I tried vo5 and it seperated upon heating....yuck! I might have to try honey instread of mollases, maybe its just better? I will just have to heat the honey though! Thank you for the friend request, i got alot in the past day wonder why, its nice of people to care, thank you all for the help and for continuing to help me!:)

[Hollyfire3]

I am watching your posts. How did you do the plopping? I have seen a few different methods. Did you try the green tea shampoo? If you do will you let me know how it worked?

I took a big long sleeve shirt, put it on the floor, put my head down in it and layed my hair basicly in a nest on top of my head. Sat back up, used the sleaves to tie the shirt to my head and tah-da! I went to sleep and had crunchy, tightish curl that were slightly wet and kinda flat...so i have to keep experimenting......but its a start! What other methods have you seen?

[Hollyfire3]

i would definitly recommend coconut oil over palm as coconut oil actually penetrates into the hair cuticle, whereas most oils just sit on top as a kind of protective sealant. I couldn't find it in shops close to me but managed to get it off Amazon in the end, when you're looking for it try to go for the virgin kind.

I understand you wanting to stick with the mousse, maybe when you've done some more experimenting however you might be able to replace it. coconut oil seems to have replaced almost everything in my 'beauty' regime - i use it on my hair combined with deep treatments, in oil shampoo after clarifying, as a pre-wash, as a leave in, as a body and facial moisturiser, lip balm, for leg shaving, as a deoderant, in cooking... - the possibilities are endless, hehe.

WOW, coconut oil sounds AMAZING! I think i will be going to the nearest health food store today and will break down and pay a bit extra for it....it BETTER work lol. WHat exactly does oil shampoo do? I read it adds body, shine and texture, is this true? I LOVE my mousse (hugs mousse can) but if this is truely SO much better....welll, i might consider it. I will be using coconut oil ALOT if i like it! Thanks for the advice!

[Hollyfire3]

Palm oil is not similar to coconut oil. Palm kernel oil is similar to coconut oil. They are very different oils (palm and palm kernel).

Why does Ktani's post say former member....:(:confused: what happened?!

[Hollyfire3]

YAY CURLS! Good luck with your coconut oil quest. :)




LOL I know the feeling. I say go with the coconut oil shampoo first and then maybe try a little tiny tiny bit coconut oil as a leave in before you put in your mousse IF the coconut oil shampoo doesn't give you the results you want.

What results am i looking for with the oil shampoo? Still a bit fuzzy on this....lol, i will need the luck, thank you:)!

[gracenotes]

***I didn't read the other response posts past the first page, so I may be repeating something.

I have 1c/2a hair that has a few scattered spirals, and Burts Bees Super Shiny Grapefruit conditioner always coaxes curl into my hair. Someone mentioned lemon juice being good for defining curls, so perhaps it's the citrus in the Burt's Bees that makes it have that effect? I've used it as a CO with no problem--it's very moisturizing, but I don't find it too heavy. It's also cone-free. It IS a little pricy for a CO conditioner, so I don't use it all the time, but my hair loves it when I do. You might try alternating that with a cheapy cone-free conditioner so that it goes further. That's my suggestion :)

[Hollyfire3]

***I didn't read the other response posts past the first page, so I may be repeating something.

I have 1c/2a hair that has a few scattered spirals, and Burts Bees Super Shiny Grapefruit conditioner always coaxes curl into my hair. Someone mentioned lemon juice being good for defining curls, so perhaps it's the citrus in the Burt's Bees that makes it have that effect? I've used it as a CO with no problem--it's very moisturizing, but I don't find it too heavy. It's also cone-free. It IS a little pricy for a CO conditioner, so I don't use it all the time, but my hair loves it when I do. You might try alternating that with a cheapy cone-free conditioner so that it goes further. That's my suggestion :)

Nope, not repeating your good:). I have never tried burts bees hair products at all, maybe i should....do they have a small bottle? Your hair is gorgeous, so if you use this stuff to make it so, it is proabably good. I have many hair products i use once then forget about them because i hate them, its sad....soo many hair products and i hate EVERY one of them....well i figure if i try them all, ONE of them HAS to work.

[Hollyfire3]

I'm not a curly so I don't have much advice but I have lots of :grouphug: and :blossom: for you.

You'll find something that works, just keep trying! Also remember, less is more. :flower:

Oh wow! I just saw a username similar to yours and thought YOU were saying your ponytail went from 2.7 to 3.5...i was gonna congradulate you until i saw it said the person was at midback length, which i don't think you are...lol

[lunalocks]

Hi, Hollyfire, since we have similar hair, I thought i would let you know what is currently working for me. I gave up cones. I CWC, lately with VO5 tea therapy S and C or Dessert Essence Organics red raspberry S and C. The first condition is just on the length (not on my head) the S is just on my scalp and then I let the water and shampoo run through the rest of my hair, then just condition the length. Gently plop with a terry towel, comb with a wood comb (I used to need detangler, now I don't!) then I rub 2 drops of baby oil in my palms and gently apply to the ends, then furthur up. Then air dry and finger comb while air drying. This will give me the texture of braid waves but not the frizz. I love it.

Day 2 is even better. The night before, 2 more drops of baby oil on the lower 2/3s, then I bun in a seashell bun on the top of my head. In the morning I finger comb and have curls, sometimes almost spiral curls. They fall out in several hours, but then when I comb, I have fullness and texture and my hair is so soft.

I am noticing less splits and healthier ends.

Good luck.

[Hollyfire3]

Hi, Hollyfire, since we have similar hair, I thought i would let you know what is currently working for me. I gave up cones. I CWC, lately with VO5 tea therapy S and C or Dessert Essence Organics red raspberry S and C. The first condition is just on the length (not on my head) the S is just on my scalp and then I let the water and shampoo run through the rest of my hair, then just condition the length. Gently plop with a terry towel, comb with a wood comb (I used to need detangler, now I don't!) then I rub 2 drops of baby oil in my palms and gently apply to the ends, then furthur up. Then air dry and finger comb while air drying. This will give me the texture of braid waves but not the frizz. I love it.

Day 2 is even better. The night before, 2 more drops of baby oil on the lower 2/3s, then I bun in a seashell bun on the top of my head. In the morning I finger comb and have curls, sometimes almost spiral curls. They fall out in several hours, but then when I comb, I have fullness and texture and my hair is so soft.

I am noticing less splits and healthier ends.

Good luck.

Cone free sounds rather tempting but it seems so hard to find products that actually work....i have so many already that don't. How long is your hair? Mine is not long enough to do a decent sea shell bun on top of my head (i just tried) so would a cinnabun work for the saem reason? Thank you for the advice!

[afu]

What results am i looking for with the oil shampoo? Still a bit fuzzy on this....lol, i will need the luck, thank you:)!

As far as i know the idea behind it is to lock moisture into the hair and scalp. I made a mistake in my post though, i don't use it in shampoo. when i clarify every so often in a CO washing regime i then add oil to the conditioner that follows the clarify, the idea behind it is to get as many goodies into the hair as possible as soon as build up has been removed. i then follow with a cool lemon juice rinse.

[lunalocks]

Lunalocks here. I used to use so many cones - detangler, another conditioner, another smoother for the ends, etc. I still do the salt spray on my bangs to give some extra fullness, as my hair is pretty straight until past my ears. Lengthwise, I am a few inches below waist. I think it is the twist in the seashell bun that does the curl trick. I bet you could do it, twisting around 2 fingers a time or two, then around one finger.

[Hollyfire3]

Lunalocks here. I used to use so many cones - detangler, another conditioner, another smoother for the ends, etc. I still do the salt spray on my bangs to give some extra fullness, as my hair is pretty straight until past my ears. Lengthwise, I am a few inches below waist. I think it is the twist in the seashell bun that does the curl trick. I bet you could do it, twisting around 2 fingers a time or two, then around one finger.


I don't know...my hair is about an inch shy of BSL and is thick, the sheashell bun doesn't work all that well...i'll try it though!:)

[ladonna]

I heard bantu knots called plopping. They are basically little bun all over your head, my hair looked great but since I like curl my hair o er night I didn't sleep good.

[Hollyfire3]

I heard bantu knots called plopping. They are basically little bun all over your head, my hair looked great but since I like curl my hair o er night I didn't sleep good.

I have tried these but i think i did them wrong, my hair was damp and too tightly curled to look like curls, they looked crimped. i will have to try again i think.

[janeytilllie]

You hair looks JUST like mine in that second pic...all these hair twins, its SCARY lol! Thanks, i like aloe too, i make a SMT with it using Aussie 3 minute miracle and mollasses, maybe the cones mess with my curls? What cone free conditioner do you use? I tried vo5 and it seperated upon heating....yuck! I might have to try honey instread of mollases, maybe its just better? I will just have to heat the honey though! Thank you for the friend request, i got alot in the past day wonder why, its nice of people to care, thank you all for the help and for continuing to help me!:)

Yay I love finding hair twins :)
I find it really helps finding hair twins because of alot of wavy haired routines are very simular and help more. I love the wurly wavy thread some very good tips on there :)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=31563

Your welcome on the friend request :flower:

The cone free conditioner I used in my SMT was Faith In Nature Hemp and Meadowfoam moisture and volume cone free conditioner. The problem is it's a UK brand :(
http://www.faithinnature.co.uk/Hemp-Shampoo/PID/8

Faith in nature Ingredients
Aqua, Cetearyl alcohol, Brassica campestris seed oil,Cannabis sativa seed oil,Limnanthes alba seed oil,Cymbopogon citratus leaf oil,Zingiber officinale root oil,Citrus paradisi peel oil,Citrusreticulata peel oil,Melaleuca alternifolia leaf oil,Cetrimonium chloride,Citral,Geraniol, Limonene.

However Maybe the conditioner you need is one simular to that. One that is cone free, light in consistency, gives moisture and volume.

I find Tresemme naturals aloe moisture one a good cone free conditioner :)

Tresemme Ingredients
Water, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Capric/Caprylic Triglyceride, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Fragrance, Lauryl Lysine, Caprylyl Glycol, Brassica Campestris (Rapeseed)/Aleurites Fordi Oil Copolymer, Aspartic Acid, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Persea Gratissima (Avacado) Oil (Organic), Citric Acid, Alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol, Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Juice (Organic)


I've also tired mollases my hair hated it. It made it stiff.
I find honey is much better for my hair :)

HTH
I hope you succed in getting back your waves :)

[afu]

my hair really didn't respond well to the tresemme, dried like straw :( i guess it just goes to show how much variety there is in hair type

[Hollyfire3]

Yay I love finding hair twins :)
I find it really helps finding hair twins because of alot of wavy haired routines are very simular and help more. I love the wurly wavy thread some very good tips on there :)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=31563

Your welcome on the friend request :flower:

The cone free conditioner I used in my SMT was Faith In Nature Hemp and Meadowfoam moisture and volume cone free conditioner. The problem is it's a UK brand :(
http://www.faithinnature.co.uk/Hemp-Shampoo/PID/8

Faith in nature Ingredients
Aqua, Cetearyl alcohol, Brassica campestris seed oil,Cannabis sativa seed oil,Limnanthes alba seed oil,Cymbopogon citratus leaf oil,Zingiber officinale root oil,Citrus paradisi peel oil,Citrusreticulata peel oil,Melaleuca alternifolia leaf oil,Cetrimonium chloride,Citral,Geraniol, Limonene.

However Maybe the conditioner you need is one simular to that. One that is cone free, light in consistency, gives moisture and volume.

I find Tresemme naturals aloe moisture one a good cone free conditioner :)

Tresemme Ingredients
Water, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Capric/Caprylic Triglyceride, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Fragrance, Lauryl Lysine, Caprylyl Glycol, Brassica Campestris (Rapeseed)/Aleurites Fordi Oil Copolymer, Aspartic Acid, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Persea Gratissima (Avacado) Oil (Organic), Citric Acid, Alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol, Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Juice (Organic)


I've also tired mollases my hair hated it. It made it stiff.
I find honey is much better for my hair :)

HTH
I hope you succed in getting back your waves :)

Yeah, the UK brands are not avaliable to me, i live in the US, but that tresseme is a possiblity. Molasses didn't make my hair stiff, it just makes it feel coated. Funnny, before i decided to damage my hair, i NEVER need volume, i wanted it gone, now here i am waiting for my hair to grow out damage and am looking for volume....i hate my hair! I have seen the wavy and wurly thread but have yet to read through alot of it, thanks for the link, i will look at it. I will have to try the honey soon, see if i like it. I just bought coconut oil at a local health food store (yay!) it was 11 dollars a jar, it BETTRE work.....off to clarify then oil-shampoo my hair....wish me luck! Thank you for all the advice!

[Hollyfire3]

my hair really didn't respond well to the tresemme, dried like straw :( i guess it just goes to show how much variety there is in hair type

My hair LOVES thier ultimate moisture stuff, but it took out alot of wave because it is so cone heavy, but once in a while, its great stuff! What type did you use? I think some of their products coat the hair, so maybe your hair just went into overload?

[Siiri]

When you try the oil shampoo, you may not get perfect results with the first few washes. I find that the results have gotten better after a couple of weeks using the method, once the coconut oil has had the change to build up a little.

[Hollyfire3]

When you try the oil shampoo, you may not get perfect results with the first few washes. I find that the results have gotten better after a couple of weeks using the method, once the coconut oil has had the change to build up a little.

Really? Does it add volume or curl? Can you use mousse after washing? Do i need an acidic rinse or can i go without? (my water is not hard) so many questions, but the oil-shampoo thread is SO long.....

[Kelikea]

You really need an acidic rinse after the oil-shampoo, and you don't use conditioner with it. It doesn't have much to do with water quality, but the way the shampoo and oil work, and to pH balance. You can use diluted lemon juice, acv, white vinegar, or citric acid.

[Kelikea]

I think the point of the oil-shampoo method is to leave you with shiny, moisturized hair that does not require extra product (like mousse, gel or hair spray).

[Hollyfire3]

I think the point of the oil-shampoo method is to leave you with shiny, moisturized hair that does not require extra product (like mousse, gel or hair spray).

Oh...i don't know if i could go without mousse...i don't know if i like the results, i will try with a bit of mousse first but let my hair dry most of the way so i can judge how well it worked. My hair doesn't like ACV, would lemon juice be better as long as i rinsed i all out and didn't leave any in (to prevent lightening)

[Hollyfire3]

You really need an acidic rinse after the oil-shampoo, and you don't use conditioner with it. It doesn't have much to do with water quality, but the way the shampoo and oil work, and to pH balance. You can use diluted lemon juice, acv, white vinegar, or citric acid.

Alright, i understand, does lemon juice bring out more curls? I just read ktani's original post on how to oil shampoo, it says a rinse is not needed unless hard water is present or a soap based shampoo is used (i plan on using a SLS based one, not a soap based).

[Siiri]

Really? Does it add volume or curl? Can you use mousse after washing? Do i need an acidic rinse or can i go without? (my water is not hard) so many questions, but the oil-shampoo thread is SO long.....

It has added volume for me, but not curl. You don't need an acidic rinse if you are using an acidic shampoo. I do use a citric acid rinse because our water is pretty alkaline.

You need to get a shampoo that doesn't have too much coating ingredients, and you're not supposed to use mousse or anything that builds up, it would prevent the coconut oil from penetrating. If you have build up on top of the hair, the oil just coats it, but that too can give you nice results. Preferably you should get a shampoo that's also not too cleansing (like a sulfate-free one), but a gentle shampoo that doesn't coat the hair is very difficult to find :( My shampoo has SLES, but it works well for me.

[Hollyfire3]

It has added volume for me, but not curl. You don't need an acidic rinse if you are using an acidic shampoo. I do use a citric acid rinse because our water is pretty alkaline.

You need to get a shampoo that doesn't have too much coating ingredients, and you're not supposed to use mousse or anything that builds up, it would prevent the coconut oil from penetrating. If you have build up on top of the hair, the oil just coats it, but that too can give you nice results. Preferably you should get a shampoo that's also not too cleansing (like a sulfate-free one), but a gentle shampoo that doesn't coat the hair is very difficult to find :( My shampoo has SLES, but it works well for me.

Maybe oil shampoo isn't for me, as i use lots of mousse, i mean i'll try it once, i have the stuff now, but i think i missed the part about the not using any other styling products:(. I am planning on using aussie volume as I was told by Ktani it doesn't build up(where is she, her avatar says former member, what happened?!:confused:) How much volume did it add? (I am dealing with fried that used to have so much curl and volume before i fried it, i am trying to get a tolerable version of my fried hair back until the damage grows out...) i just used some coconut oil to lightly coat my hair even though i'm sure i have alot of product on it already, so its not penetrating, but it made my hair soft and shiny.

[Siiri]

Maybe oil shampoo isn't for me, as i use lots of mousse, i mean i'll try it once, i have the stuff now, but i think i missed the part about the not using any other styling products:(. I am planning on using aussie volume as I was told by Ktani it doesn't build up(where is she, her avatar says former member, what happened?!:confused:) How much volume did it add? (I am dealing with fried that used to have so much curl and volume before i fried it, i am trying to get a tolerable version of my fried hair back until the damage grows out...) i just used some coconut oil to lightly coat my hair even though i'm sure i have alot of product on it already, so its not penetrating, but it made my hair soft and shiny.

Some people do use oil shampoo with other products, like conditioner and styling products, so if you like the results with mousse, good for you, but my point is the oil won't penetrate if you have build up. Apparently it would work more like a normal surface conditioner if you use it with products that have coatings.

It hasn't added massive amounts of volume, just enough that I can feel the difference. I have written about my results recently in the oil shampoo thread. The main advantage with oil shampoo compared to Co-washing, which I did before, is that my hair is less flat, because it's not weighed down by the build up, and the routine feels less time consuming to me. I use MO as a leave-in.

I should add that my hair is not damaged or problematic.

[Sillage]

What results am i looking for with the oil shampoo? Still a bit fuzzy on this....lol, i will need the luck, thank you:)!

I'm not exactly sure as I don't do oil shampoo myself but I do use coconut oil as a preshampoo treatment which just involves me scooping out a lot of coconut oil and completely coating my hair with it. With my hair totally saturated with coconut oil, I let it set for at least 30 to 1 hour and then shampoo and condition as normal (I also use my leave ins as usual). The preshampoo treatment leaves my hair healthier feeling and a little bouncier. If I do it too much my ends start feeling a little stiff but then I just lay off for a week or so and everything is back to normal.

One little note: you can really feel the coconut oil in your hair after you shampoo it out. Don't worry about it, just condition as normal and go about your routine. It feels really weird but works out fine :agree:.

[Hollyfire3]

I'm not exactly sure as I don't do oil shampoo myself but I do use coconut oil as a preshampoo treatment which just involves me scooping out a lot of coconut oil and completely coating my hair with it. With my hair totally saturated with coconut oil, I let it set for at least 30 to 1 hour and then shampoo and condition as normal (I also use my leave ins as usual). The preshampoo treatment leaves my hair healthier feeling and a little bouncier. If I do it too much my ends start feeling a little stiff but then I just lay off for a week or so and everything is back to normal.

One little note: you can really feel the coconut oil in your hair after you shampoo it out. Don't worry about it, just condition as normal and go about your routine. It feels really weird but works out fine :agree:.

I think i am in love with coconut oil! my hair absorbed the little bit i put in, it feels stronger and is shinier! If oil shampoo (which i am trying tonight) doesn't work, coconut oil is going to be my goto DT! I will probably be taking your advice and using it as a preshampoo treatment, do you refrigerate your coconut oil?

[Sillage]

I don't refrigerate coconut oil but then again, I work thru it kind of fast. Also, coconut oil gets really hard when refrigerated. If you got a huge jar that you don't think you're going to be able to use up with in the year, you might want to consider transferring some to a small jar and putting the rest in the freezer. So glad that you're having some good results with the coconut oil already! May the oil shampoo work even better :D

[afu]

I think i am in love with coconut oil! my hair absorbed the little bit i put in, it feels stronger and is shinier! If oil shampoo (which i am trying tonight) doesn't work, coconut oil is going to be my goto DT! I will probably be taking your advice and using it as a preshampoo treatment, do you refrigerate your coconut oil?

I have a 250g tub of coconut oil so i scooped some out and put it in a smaller pot. I refrigerate the big tub and keep the other in my room/travel. As far as i am aware there is no refrigeration required as the antioxidants in the oil preserve it, but if you have a hot bedroom/bathroom/live somewhere hot refrigeration may just make storage easier.

It also depends on how you like to use it, i prefer it to be in liquid form and dip my fingers into it; but others prefer to scratch their finger nails over the solid surface and melt it in their hand.

Glad you managed to get hold of some :) welcome to the wonderful world of coconut oil

[Hollyfire3]

I have a 250g tub of coconut oil so i scooped some out and put it in a smaller pot. I refrigerate the big tub and keep the other in my room/travel. As far as i am aware there is no refrigeration required as the antioxidants in the oil preserve it, but if you have a hot bedroom/bathroom/live somewhere hot refrigeration may just make storage easier.

It also depends on how you like to use it, i prefer it to be in liquid form and dip my fingers into it; but others prefer to scratch their finger nails over the solid surface and melt it in their hand.

Glad you managed to get hold of some :) welcome to the wonderful world of coconut oil

And what a warm welcome it is! I hope after this oil shampoo experiment that i might be rid of ALL styling products (cough, stupid mousse) but i am not wishing for miracles here....we shall see!

[Hollyfire3]

I don't refrigerate coconut oil but then again, I work thru it kind of fast. Also, coconut oil gets really hard when refrigerated. If you got a huge jar that you don't think you're going to be able to use up with in the year, you might want to consider transferring some to a small jar and putting the rest in the freezer. So glad that you're having some good results with the coconut oil already! May the oil shampoo work even better :D

Oh gosh i HOPE this oil shampoo works....i'm so excited!Good idea about the small container! Does anyone have an recipes for leave in conditioner made with coconut oil? Or maybe some egg white mousse with coconut oil? Natural products like that surely can be used with oil shampoo? Can aloe vera gel be used with oil shampoo?

[Siiri]

Oh gosh i HOPE this oil shampoo works....i'm so excited!Good idea about the small container! Does anyone have an recipes for leave in conditioner made with coconut oil? Or maybe some egg white mousse with coconut oil? Natural products like that surely can be used with oil shampoo? Can aloe vera gel be used with oil shampoo?

Actually a lot of natural products do build up, including aloe vera gel.

[afu]

Does anyone have an recipes for leave in conditioner made with coconut oil? Or maybe some egg white mousse with coconut oil? Natural products like that surely can be used with oil shampoo? Can aloe vera gel be used with oil shampoo?

I mix my coconut oil with anything! for a leave in conditioner i combined an intensive colourless henna conditioner with coconut and amla and just work it into my lengths. If im not at home i just apply a bit of any conditoner i have on hand to my lengths after towel drying then follow with some coconut oil. It really is very versitile, just experiment :)

[Sillage]

Does anyone have an recipes for leave in conditioner made with coconut oil?

You can go in a lot of directions with coconut oil leave ins. Many people like combining coconut oil with harder butters like illipe, coco, or shea to make a creamy body butter consistency product. You can also add any oils you want... it's a lot of fun mixing and matching ;).

You can also just mix together a leave in and coconut oil in your palm which is something I often do other oils (since I personally can't use coconut oil as a leave in).

[Hollyfire3]

Actually a lot of natural products do build up, including aloe vera gel.

Oh, can't i just use a styling product for a while and clarify when needed?

[Hollyfire3]

You can go in a lot of directions with coconut oil leave ins. Many people like combining coconut oil with harder butters like illipe, coco, or shea to make a creamy body butter consistency product. You can also add any oils you want... it's a lot of fun mixing and matching ;).

You can also just mix together a leave in and coconut oil in your palm which is something I often do other oils (since I personally can't use coconut oil as a leave in).

Mixing and matching is awsome! I will have to play around with it though. What does coconut oil do when you leave it in (for you, why doesn't it work?) does it harden?

[Hollyfire3]

I mix my coconut oil with anything! for a leave in conditioner i combined an intensive colourless henna conditioner with coconut and amla and just work it into my lengths. If im not at home i just apply a bit of any conditoner i have on hand to my lengths after towel drying then follow with some coconut oil. It really is very versitile, just experiment :)


I shall experiment and will have fun too! Isn't colorless henna cassia? I have some of that! Also, does the amla tighten curl? i have been thinking of trying that too....

[Amanah]

I Just finished reading:

“The Beauty Aisle Insider,” by Perry Romanowski
From the Creators of Thebeautybrains.com
2011, by Brains Publishing

I highly recommend reading this book as it covers many of the topics that we discuss on this forum: coconut oil, conditioner only, sulfates, silicones, etc.
It’s written by a group of chemists (top cosmetic scientists) who have tested various products for years, but they are not in the business of selling any particular product so they are unbiased.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Beauty-Aisle-Insider-Scientists/dp/0373892667/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333738996&sr=8-2

[Hollyfire3]

I Just finished reading:

“The Beauty Aisle Insider,” by Perry Romanowski
From the Creators of Thebeautybrains.com
2011, by Brains Publishing

I highly recommend reading this book as it covers many of the topics that we discuss on this forum: coconut oil, conditioner only, sulfates, silicones, etc.
It’s written by a group of chemists (top cosmetic scientists) who have tested various products for years, but they are not in the business of selling any particular product so they are unbiased.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Beauty-Aisle-Insider-Scientists/dp/0373892667/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333738996&sr=8-2

Thank you! Looks like i am gonna have to read up...wonder if the book is avaliable at the library? Intresting, did thier info match the stuff we say here?

[Amanah]

They confirmed what we know about coconut oil being able to penetrate and strengthen hair.

They give good ideas for using less expensive brands that are just as good as the more expensive ones. for instance, you are just as well off using Sauve naturals conditioner as using Wen.

[Hollyfire3]

They confirmed what we know about coconut oil being able to penetrate and strengthen hair.

They give good ideas for using less expensive brands that are just as good as the more expensive ones. for instance, you are just as well off using Sauve naturals conditioner as using Wen.

Intresting, those two conditioners seem so different, glad to know there not. Can coconut oil penetrate un clarifyed hair?

[Hollyfire3]

I. Hate. My. Hair. Alright, i've had it! I tried oil shampoo and i know i know, the results supposedly get better, but my hair is straight and flat..........oh and i was SO close to curls before i tired this......I am not trying ANYTHING else, it never works i'm done, why bother, i can't do this, i want to feel pretty and this messed up hair crap is driving me INSANE.....sorry rant over, but seriously, i mean all of that, i have preceeded to drown my hair in coconut oil for all its worth, it needs to suffer, to be suffocated in this stuff, because i refuse to look at my hair. I will be washing with good o'l regular shampoo and conditoner tommrow and will use my mousse, come what may to me, my hair is screwed, it is done and i better just start excpeting it in all its f***ed up glory and hope and pray it decides to grow out normal (which would be in its best intrest)

[Siiri]

Oh, can't i just use a styling product for a while and clarify when needed?

It doesn't really work that way. If you use styling products that have a lot of coatings, the oil in the shampoo can't penetrate. It doesn't help if you clarify it once a month and use products that build up on other days of the month, the oil would have the change to penetrate into the hair just one day in the month, and wouldn't do much for your hair.


I. Hate. My. Hair. Alright, i've had it! I tried oil shampoo and i know i know, the results supposedly get better, but my hair is straight and flat..........oh and i was SO close to curls before i tired this......I am not trying ANYTHING else, it never works i'm done, why bother, i can't do this, i want to feel pretty and this messed up hair crap is driving me INSANE.....sorry rant over, but seriously, i mean all of that, i have preceeded to drown my hair in coconut oil for all its worth, it needs to suffer, to be suffocated in this stuff, because i refuse to look at my hair. I will be washing with good o'l regular shampoo and conditoner tommrow and will use my mousse, come what may to me, my hair is screwed, it is done and i better just start excpeting it in all its f***ed up glory and hope and pray it decides to grow out normal (which would be in its best intrest)

Oil shampoo method takes time and in my opinion, it may not be that great for damaged hair like yours, because the period you need to wait for the oil to build up sufficiently can take weeks, and during that time your hair can suffer especially if you use a harsh shampoo (aussie isn't exactly gentle). Many people who have used the method, haven't had good results, but some have, it's the same with everything.

If your hair is damaged, it won't miraculously turn healthy. For you a simple shampoo and conditioner or CWC would perhaps be the best routine. You probably get a lot of build up from the styling products, so you need the shampoo in my opinion.

[Hollyfire3]

It doesn't really work that way. If you use styling products that have a lot of coatings, the oil in the shampoo can't penetrate. It doesn't help if you clarify it once a month and use products that build up on other days of the month, the oil would have the change to penetrate into the hair just one day in the month, and wouldn't do much for your hair.



Oil shampoo method takes time and in my opinion, it may not be that great for damaged hair like yours, because the period you need to wait for the oil to build up sufficiently can take weeks, and during that time your hair can suffer especially if you use a harsh shampoo (aussie isn't exactly gentle). Many people who have used the method, haven't had good results, but some have, it's the same with everything.

If your hair is damaged, it won't miraculously turn healthy. For you a simple shampoo and conditioner or CWC would perhaps be the best routine. You probably get a lot of build up from the styling products, so you need the shampoo in my opinion.


Thank you for the advice and sorry for the rant, its just i've tried SO much, i want simple, effective and easy! I know, my hair is fried (if doesn't look it though, but it is) and won't curl properly until all grown out....so i am in denial, but i will never have pretty hair until all this is grown out. I think i will give oil shampoo another visit when most of the damage has grown out, my hair needs conditioner to moisturize and i fear the coconut oil locks in too much protein in my hair, at least, thats what the results of last night felt like (my hair goes straight now with protein and it was like that yesterday after oil shampooing) i washed the oil i drenched my hair in last night out this morning with the shampoo i used to use before i started experimenting, then i used vo5 conditioner to be sure all the oil was out, then washed again, then conditoned with tresseme ultimate moisture conditioner (i already know my hair likes it, so why mess with a good thing?) basically the only change from normal (besides oil shampoo last night) was the coconut oil pre-shampoo oiling so i will let you know how this goes, fingers crossed, I will at least get SOME volume and waves....but lets not hope for the impossible...or highly unlikely.

[Sillage]

What does coconut oil do when you leave it in (for you, why doesn't it work?) does it harden?

The only reason I can't use coconut oil as a leave in is because it breaks me out. Coconut oil is very comedogenic :(. My hair, however, loves it. It made my hair super shiny (like silicone shiny), soft, and strong feeling. It even helped bring out a little bit of my wave. As far as hardening, it never does that, even when I saturate my hair. I guess it's the head from my head that keeps it liquid.


I. Hate. My. Hair. Alright, i've had it! I tried oil shampoo and i know i know, the results supposedly get better, but my hair is straight and flat..........oh and i was SO close to curls before i tired this......I am not trying ANYTHING else, it never works i'm done, why bother, i can't do this, i want to feel pretty and this messed up hair crap is driving me INSANE.....sorry rant over, but seriously, i mean all of that, i have preceeded to drown my hair in coconut oil for all its worth, it needs to suffer, to be suffocated in this stuff, because i refuse to look at my hair. I will be washing with good o'l regular shampoo and conditoner tommrow and will use my mousse, come what may to me, my hair is screwed, it is done and i better just start excpeting it in all its f***ed up glory and hope and pray it decides to grow out normal (which would be in its best intrest)



:(:(:(

I'm sorry you're going thru a difficult time right now. You work so hard on your hair... I really wish you could find some success.

[Siiri]

Thank you for the advice and sorry for the rant, its just i've tried SO much, i want simple, effective and easy! I know, my hair is fried (if doesn't look it though, but it is) and won't curl properly until all grown out....so i am in denial, but i will never have pretty hair until all this is grown out. I think i will give oil shampoo another visit when most of the damage has grown out, my hair needs conditioner to moisturize and i fear the coconut oil locks in too much protein in my hair, at least, thats what the results of last night felt like (my hair goes straight now with protein and it was like that yesterday after oil shampooing) i washed the oil i drenched my hair in last night out this morning with the shampoo i used to use before i started experimenting, then i used vo5 conditioner to be sure all the oil was out, then washed again, then conditoned with tresseme ultimate moisture conditioner (i already know my hair likes it, so why mess with a good thing?) basically the only change from normal (besides oil shampoo last night) was the coconut oil pre-shampoo oiling so i will let you know how this goes, fingers crossed, I will at least get SOME volume and waves....but lets not hope for the impossible...or highly unlikely.

I hope the pre-oiling works. CWC (oil - shampoo - conditioner) may be just what you need, and it's a pretty simple routine and the pre-oiling (or pre-conditioning) helps to protect the ends while you shampoo. If you like the results you get with Tresemme, you should definitely stick to that.

[Hollyfire3]

I hope the pre-oiling works. CWC (oil - shampoo - conditioner) may be just what you need, and it's a pretty simple routine and the pre-oiling (or pre-conditioning) helps to protect the ends while you shampoo. If you like the results you get with Tresemme, you should definitely stick to that.

Yeah, the only reason i ever change my shampoo and conditioner is because my hair is ultra stupid- i mean finicky and one day wants protein and the next moisture, if i don't give it the right stuff, it goes flat and with no curl (well, thats my damaged hair for you....) the tresseme is good for moisture but i still get straight hair if i use it when my hair needs protein, luckily, the shampoo i used has some protein and the tresseme is moisture, i hope with the coconut pre-oiling that this stuff all balances each other out and works to give me my curl and volume back. I will still be using mousse so the coconut oil will become just a surface conditoner, but maybe once a month or when i need to clarify, i will douse my hair in coconut oil, apply heat (which i meant to do before i washed this morning....mousebrianed me...) then wash like normal and see if it helps. I may not get good results using extra protein to strengthen my hair, but maybe coconut oil will make up for this? The sad part is, i am one of the only ones who even knows my hair is damaged, the ends no longer break because i don't flat iron (i NEVER flat iron, the only reason that thing is still in the house is that i can't bring myself to throw away a perfectly good 100 dollar iron), I color my hair and because of this it looks shiny and healthy, and i hardly ever get frizz because my hair hardly curls right. The only evidence of my fried hair (which i KNOW it is, because i have left it months without dye and watched most of the shine fade, i know how many trims it takes to get my nice ends, and i know what happens on a humid day, poof) is the curl loss and volume loss, it can't be hormonal because it is the hair that is already grown that never curls (i only have 4 inches or so of healthy hair). It pains me that nobody else even knows what heck i go through, just because my hair LOOKS like its supposed to be straightish...but i know better, its not, and i just hope it grows in better and i decide NOT to damage it again....sorry for the long read