Friend's Conditioner Crisis!

[Rumpel]

Hey, ladies.
I need help. Or, rather, my best friend needs help :D She's an actor/singer/dancer who does shows for a theater company fairly often. She moves a LOT on stage, and has to have different hair colors for shows. Wigs don't work because of the movement, and she won't use anything but Clairol Natural Instincts, a fairly good semi-permanent dye. The problem is that in the last two months, she's used the stuff three times and is doing it again in a couple of weeks. She blow fries, straightens, and is currently not using conditioner because the alcohol has an adverse effect on her scalp. Other than the dye, she will not use a product on her hair that contains alcohol. Her hair, naturally blond, is probably a 1c/F/i-ii. And when I say fine, I mean baby fine. Anyway, she will not try oils because she's afraid that they will weigh her hair down. The same goes for butters. She's a poor college student like me, so she can't be buying avocados, coconut milk, or fresh stuff constantly because it gets expensive. However, she will spring for something that will last a while. Does anybody know of a good conditioner without alcohol that will not weigh her hair down?

[Vanilla]

Is she adverse to trying mineral oil on damp hair?

It helps with the tangles and dryness, is cheap and doesn't need to be reapplied. It's also alcohol free, and when used sparingly, it doesn't weigh down the hair.

[Gulbahar]

I'm sure there are lots of conditioners without alcohol. But I was wondering - may be she sees something like "cetyl alcohol" on the label and thinks this is the same as drinking alcohol? It's not. It's an emulsifier and there are other ingredients in cosmetics with this word that don't have anything to do with the kind of alcohol you drink.

[GRU]

I'm sure there are lots of conditioners without alcohol. But I was wondering - may be she sees something like "cetyl alcohol" on the label and thinks this is the same as drinking alcohol? It's not. It's an emulsifier and there are other ingredients in cosmetics with this word that don't have anything to do with the kind of alcohol you drink.


Exactly.... there are different alcohols in hair spray or mousse than there are in conditioners.

All alcohols are not created equally!

[ktani]

That is true. The alcohols in conditioner are fatty alcohols not ethyl alcohol, unles it says SD alcohol (denatured alcohol). However, they are waxy and can weigh the hair down and they do build-up and thus can be drying.

Mineral oil/baby oil just may be the answer for her. If her hair is dry, Correction: tell her she can not have - have she use it on damp hair, if her hair is not dry, she can use it on dry hair. She just needs ETA: small - drops and not many, and it should detangle, moisturize or keep her hair moisturized if it is ok, while detangling, not weigh her hair down or be greasy, and it fights static.

ETA:2 Tell her used in small amounts the oil washes out easily with shampoo, even non sulfate ones and yes, she should not need to reapply it between washes.

[GRU]

That is true. The alcohols in conditioner are fatty alcohols not ethyl alcohol, unles it says SD alcohol (denatured alcohol). However, they are waxy and can weigh the hair down and they do build-up and thus can be drying.

Would love to see some evidence of this... I only shampoo once per YEAR and I have no buildup problems and as much as I would love for something to weigh my hair down, I have no weighing-down issues from fatty alcohols, either.

[ktani]

Would love to see some evidence of this... I only shampoo once per YEAR and I have no buildup problems and as much as I would love for something to weigh my hair down, I have no weighing-down issues from fatty alcohols, either.

It is in threads all over these boards, and how clarifying helps hair that has been weighed down and become dry recover from both.

ETA: See Heavy Cut, http://www.pgchemicals.com/products/fatty-alcohols/

[GRU]

It is in threads all over these boards, and how clarifying helps hair that has been weighed down and become dry recover from both.

I understand the concept of clarifying. That's not what I asked. Where is it in threads all over LHC that FATTY ALCOHOLS cause buildup and dryness and weighing down?



ETA: See Heavy Cut, http://www.pgchemicals.com/products/fatty-alcohols/

Sorry, where exactly does it say in that link that fatty alcohols have the properties you claim???

[ktani]

I understand the concept of clarifying. That's not what I asked. Where is it in threads all over LHC that FATTY ALCOHOLS cause buildup and dryness and weighing down?

Sorry, where exactly does it say in that link that fatty alcohols have the properties you claim???

Fatty alcohols are waxy. I have posted links about that in multiple threads, and they do build-up.

Heavy Cut means those described as such are heavy fatty alcohols as opposed to Mid Cut and Lighter ones.

ETA: Here you go, http://www.teachsoap.com/emulsifywax.html

[Gulbahar]

My hair doesn't get weighed down by fatty alcohols either, although it gets weighed down easily. I know that for sure because I make my conditioners from scratch (I do something like CO most of the times).
So it isn't true for everybody and every hair type.

[GRU]

Fatty alcohols are waxy. I have posted links about that in multiple threads, and they do build-up.

Heavy Cut means those described as such are heavy fatty alcohols as opposed to Mid Cut and Lighter ones.

ETA: Here you go, http://www.teachsoap.com/emulsifywax.html

I still haven't seen anything in what you've posted that suggests that fatty alcohols build up and cause dryness.

Nor have I seen anything in all the threads that I've read here on LHC that people are having to clarify their hair because of fatty alcohols building up and weighing down their hair.

Some people who CO-wash do clarify or shampoo their hair on occasion, but to claim that they do it because of fatty alcohols is one heck of a stretch. How do you know that it's that one product out of the dozens in their conditioner causing a problem? How do you know it's not some other product that they put on their hair? How do you know it's not minerals in their water building up?

While I don't make my own products like Gulbahar, I do CO-wash, and I only shampoo/clarify my hair once a year (and just for the heck of it, not because it "needs" to be stripped of heavy build-up caused by any one ingredient).

People should avoid making blanket statements that have no basis in fact or even consistent anecdotal evidence, IMO.

[ktani]

I still haven't seen anything in what you've posted that suggests that fatty alcohols build up and cause dryness.

Nor have I seen anything in all the threads that I've read here on LHC that people are having to clarify their hair because of fatty alcohols building up and weighing down their hair.

Some people who CO-wash do clarify or shampoo their hair on occasion, but to claim that they do it because of fatty alcohols is one heck of a stretch. How do you know that it's that one product out of the dozens in their conditioner causing a problem? How do you know it's not some other product that they put on their hair? How do you know it's not minerals in their water building up?

While I don't make my own products like Gulbahar, I do CO-wash, and I only shampoo/clarify my hair once a year (and just for the heck of it, not because it "needs" to be stripped of heavy build-up caused by any one ingredient).

People should avoid making blanket statements that have no basis in fact or even consistent anecdotal evidence, IMO.

Fatty alcohols are waxy and do leave residues. ETA:3 I am referring to those used in conditioner. - There is research on that. Since you reject what I have posted, you can find that yourself online to back up what I have said. Build-up does cause dryness as per many reports, and from my own experience with it. Fatty alcohols are not the only reason for that and I did not say that they are. ETA: I said that they can be heavy and that they do build-up. - There are a number of ingredients in conditioners and conditioning shampoos that cause build-up and I have posted about that in several threads at various times.

ETA:2 I did not and will not address your results with not clarifying more often than you do or your not feeling that it is required. Those are your results and opinions.

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[GRU]

Fatty alcohols are waxy and do leave residues. ETA:3 I am referring to those used in conditioner. - There is research on that. Since you reject what I have posted, you can find that yourself online to back up what I have said.

I have seen nothing that you've posted that says that fatty alcohols build up. I have seen nothing that points to "research" on that "fact". I can't reject something I haven't seen -- and I've never seen anything in what you've posted/linked to that connects fatty alcohols to build-up.

Can you list a link and point out a DIRECT QUOTE from that link to what I am allegedly missing?

And I know that build-up can cause problems, I've never denied that. I'm trying to understand your alleged link between cetyl alcohol and build-up. So far all I can see in your comments is a logical fallacy that:

1. Fatty Alcohols are waxy compounds.
2. Some build-up is caused by waxy compounds.
3. Therefore all Fatty Alcohols cause build-up.

Following your "logic" most of us are Amish women. After all:


1. Most LHCers have long hair.
2. Amish women have long hair.
3. Therefore most LHCers are Amish women.

:rolleyes:

I could understand if it was a personalized, "this is my personal experience" type of comment. We all have unique hair, and what works for my hair doesn't work for yours or someone else's or even anyone else's. But blanket, generalized statements that directly contradict the personal experience of a large number of the members here... that's what I can't wrap my head around here.

[styric]

If you can convince her not alcohols are the same, I'd suggest Panacea