Help! Need advice on sectioning hair for braids/updos

[RapunzelKat]

Ok everybody... I'm really hoping someone can give me some advice/suggestions here... :confused: I have a really hard time sectioning my hair to put it in updos or French/Dutch braids. (The French/Dutch braids are actually the worst, because you have to change the direction the section is going as well as getting it apart from the other hair.) The problem is, my hair is super-tangly and does not appreciate being separated into strands. The strand I'm trying to separate grabs onto the other strands and forms huge tangles as I try to separate. It's weird, because at the same time my hair tends to slip out of styles... But that's another story :D

Here's what I've tried...

Heavy oiling before doing these types of styles. (This helps a tiny bit, but not much.)

Taking a strand at the roots and just lifting it away from the rest of my hair. This is pretty much impossible, regardless of the size of the strand. The tangles just hold the strand against the rest of my hair. :shrug:

Taking a strand at the roots, holding it gently with one hand, and running the other hand down the length in the direction of my hair, then lifting the strand. Also almost impossible - I wind up with TIGHT tangles down at the ends of my hair.

Taking a strand at the roots, holding it gently with one hand, bringing all my hair in front and detangling with my wide tooth comb, fingers, or Tangle Teezer depending on what type of tangles I end up with. Then I gently lift the strand away from the others. This kinda works. I can manage to get my hair done up or braided this way, but it takes f o r e v e r
:justy:

This is really the only part of my tangle battle I have left to win - I have learned to deal with them in pretty much all other aspects of my hair routine :thumbsup: But this is getting so frustrating! For one thing, when I'm holding a braid/section with one hand, that leaves me with only one free hand to detangle, which can be hard when I get the kind of tangles that require finger combing to remove. :rolleyes:

I have been practicing in hopes that my skill will improve, but I've had to limit my practice quite a bit because my arms get fatigued and also when I get frustrated I sometimes start ripping through tangles instead of gently removing them. Not so good for my hair. :o

On the plus side, I can do Dutch/French braids and updos again, even though it takes so long. Before I found LHC, I had completely given up on these kinds of styles because it was literally impossible to get through the tangles. I couldn't even tear through them, they were that thick! :bigeyes:

Does anybody have any suggestions for me? I appreciate any help :D

[Astrophil]

I don't really do French or Dutch braids at the moment because my hair is too short for a nice long braid, but back when I had longer hair I French braided all the time. My hair always wanted to tangle during sectioning, but it was much worse if my hair was fully dry for some reason.

I always preferred my hair being slightly damp for French braiding--either after some air drying, some blow drying, or spraying already dry hair with a mister bottle. The dampness seemed to help the sections come apart from each other more easily.

When I start French braiding again I think I'll use a mister bottle filled with watered down conditioner to improve the slip. Damp hair braiding helped me section more easily and also helped the braid hold more securely. My hair would slip out or loosen up way too much if I braided it dry.

The times I braided very wet hair it was also easy to section and held well, but my hair would just stay wet all day and be wet when I took the braid out. I was going for braid waves at the time, and the waves wouldn't last if my hair were still wet.

I hope that helps!

[darklyndsea]

Oh man, I know where you're coming from! I have my tangliness problem mostly worked out now, but it's been a lifelong struggle.

Hopefully I can help some, but as our hair types are so different you'll probably want to take this with a big grain of salt.

*My* tangles are apparently caused by not enough moisture, which I'm dealing with by CWCing and using Kimberlily's defrizz spray. Somebody else wrote in another thread that it's not just too little moisture, but the moisture/protein balance being off, so if your hair tends more toward the opposite end of the scale I'm not sure the spray would work for you.

[melusine963]

This is the exact problem that's keeping me from learning to French braid. I'll be watching this thread closely because there are so many cool hair styles I could do if only I got the hang of this.

[Madora]

RapunzelKat, do you thoroughly detangle with a wide tooth comb before you begin to braid?

After reading your post, it seems to me that the problem lies in your hair. Perhaps what you're putting on it (shampoo, conditioner, anything else) is causing major residue issues, which can contribute to tangles.

Perhaps if you tried clarifying your hair, then conditioning it, then tried braiding your hair after it was completely dry.

Once the "grabby, tangly hair" issues are conquered, the braiding techniques would be easier to accomplish..with practice.

As for sectioning, if you're relatively new to French braiding, it might help to:


1) Detangle hair thoroughly

2) Part your hair horizontally from the top of the right ear, around your head to the top of the left ear.

3) Comb all the hair above the part so that it is smooth, then secure it with a barrette or a Flexi 8.


4) Divide the hair in 3 sections

5) Begin to French "English" braid..i.e. right section over center section, left section over center section

6) Take small section from right and add it to the right section.
Be sure to move your outspread fingers down this new added section so that it's smooth and there are no tangles. Do it slowly!

7) Take the right section and cross over the middle section

8) Take a sliver of hair from the left and add it to the left section.
Go down the newly added section to make sure it's smooth.

9) Cross the left section over the middle section

and so forth and so on


The most important thing to remember when you're French braiding is to ALWAYS make sure the strands are separate, all the way to the ends.


Each time you cross a section, use your hand like a mini rake to slowly go down the section to make sure it is separate and not tangled up with its neighboring section. It's kind of tricky, managing your hand holding the braid in place and using your other hand, but like everything, practice makes perfect.


Once you become more comfortable with French braiding, then you can dispense with the barrette and just section the hair into 3 sections and start in.


Your tangling problem might be the result of protein overload. I have no clue but thought I'd mention it.


Bottom line, I think the tangling might be attributed to what you're putting on your hair. I could be wrong, of course, but it sure sounds like it to me.


ps. You might want to investigate Mineral Oil to help combat tangles.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=225

[thelambscottage]

I have learned that I can only work with my hair when it is still all the way wet (not dripping though) or all the way dry. The reason being, that damp hair has some dry hairs, and some wet hairs, and those want to stick to each other and get tangled. So choose what works best for you, all the way wet or completely dry and see if that helps.

[RapunzelKat]

Thanks guys! I will definitely be giving everything a try... Just gotta keep at it until I find what works :p


RapunzelKat, do you thoroughly detangle with a wide tooth comb before you begin to braid?

After reading your post, it seems to me that the problem lies in your hair. Perhaps what you're putting on it (shampoo, conditioner, anything else) is causing major residue issues, which can contribute to tangles.

Perhaps if you tried clarifying your hair, then conditioning it, then tried braiding your hair after it was completely dry.


Madora, I do always detangle thoroughly before braiding, and I only braid completely dry, oiled hair. (I have learned it's best not to touch my hair at all when it's wet.) I'm not really using much in the way of products, except my 'coney conditioner and leave in, plus oils. I do clarify pretty regularly, once a month or so, but I suppose I could maybe be getting 'cone buildup. My hair has always seemed to love 'cones, but perhaps it's too much combined with the oil? :shrug: (I do use mineral oil on my ends - it's great! They're so much less dry now! :D)

Sorry, I probably should have said a little more about my routine in my first post... :o

Also, do you think mineral buildup could contribute to tangling issues? I do have very hard water where I lived, and this problem really started to develop not too long after I moved here and away from soft water. I know you can chelate to remove mineral buildup, but I don't know much about it...

Thank you for your advice on the braiding technique! I'm totally new to updos and Dutch braids. I've known how to French braid for a number of years, but I taught myself and my technique has never really gotten too good. I can see a few things you mentioned that I can do differently ;)

ETA: Oh, I forgot to mention, I did remove all protein-containing products from my hair routine shortly after joining - I had massive protein overload and my hair had become virtually impossible to work with. Removing the protein has made things MUCH better, but maybe it's still recovering from that as well? My new routine is really only a few months old.

[sycamoreboutiqu]

What do you use for a leave-in, a commercial product ?

I have started using the technique of just putting a touch of the same conditioner I am using (Garnier Triple Nutrition is excellent) back on. This is after a CO with some cheap/thin brand (the best for CO) and after a second conditioning of the length (super wavy & thick needs lots of conditioner) and squeezing it through dripping wet hair. This way just enough is left on the strands to smooth them but not enough to make it tacky.

It has made all the difference in my tangling problem. That combined with NO protein products, no cones and no shampoo.

I am thinking that maybe the wet or partially wet method may be the key to sectioning too.

As we speak I am air drying after the CO routine. I am at about 50% dry and noticed I can easily separate the hair into sections with no tangling, something I can't do when it is totally dry and more poufy and flying around.

Maybe try that - CO and add some leave in conditioner and then try sectioning again at different stages of wetness.

[Madora]

Thanks for your reply, RapunzelKat.

I would imagine since you clarify once a month, that should remove everything, including the mineral oil, from your strands.

What jumped out at me was your statement that you have hard water. That might be contributing to the problem. Heidi W has spoken about putting some sort of filter in your shower to help combat hard water issues..so you may want to look into that option.

Good luck!

[heidi w.]

Thanks for your reply, RapunzelKat.

I would imagine since you clarify once a month, that should remove everything, including the mineral oil, from your strands.

What jumped out at me was your statement that you have hard water. That might be contributing to the problem. Heidi W has spoken about putting some sort of filter in your shower to help combat hard water issues..so you may want to look into that option.

Good luck!

Thank you, Madora!!

If one's water is really hard, it's important to try to address this, as absolutely, this problem can contribute to minerals eventually building up on the hair, along with product perhaps, and can lead to tangle difficulties. I have fairly hard water where I live and I installed a water softener in the house. It has made a world of difference. If I stay the night elsewhere, I can begin itching terribly within about 3days of using other people's facilities.

One can either soften water, and then under the kitchen sink, install some kind of water filter. In my area, people install osmosis water systems under the sink so they can drink the water.

OR

you can go to a hardware store and pick up a shower head filter that fairly easily, and inexpensively attaches to the shower head arm jutting out of the wall. Just a pair of pliers, screwdriver, or a wrench are about all you need. Make sure to buy a system that looks as though it'll be around a while, and buy some spare filters to have on hand....because my system eventually sold out, so I had to buy a whole new showerhead filter.

This last is the solution for those who rent, and no, you usually do not need to tell the landlord or have the repairman come in and install it. You're not making a permanent change. It comes off easily when it's time to vacate the premises.

IF one is unsure of how hard their water is, there are water test kits in hardware stores. They're typically in the gardening center, but they can be elsewhere in the store. They're not overly expensive. You want to test, usually, for a pH test kit.

Hope this helps. As it concerns braiding, I just hold the sections in one hand, and even if french braiding or regular braiding, switch hands as I go along. I also have stick straight hair, and that may make it somewhat easier. But the length below gets slightly tangled, and as I work my way down, I have to detangle a little bit with my wide tooth comb. I do not start braiding usually right against the scalp skin.

heidi w.

[Springgrl]

I have the EXACT same problems as you Repunzelkat. I am going to read through everyone's suggestions! Thank you!

[heidi w.]

Also, do you think mineral buildup could contribute to tangling issues? I do have very hard water where I lived, and this problem really started to develop not too long after I moved here and away from soft water. I know you can chelate to remove mineral buildup, but I don't know much about it...

Above in another post, I responded that mineral buildup on hair can absolutely contribute to detangling. Be sure to not mix up what chelating and clarifying are.

Chelating is addressing things that have bonded to the cortex.

Clarifying strips the hair's surface, what's on top of the cuticle, and removes it. Once you clarify, one usually needs to condition as part of this hair wash because one must replace what's been removed.

See the above post regarding water filter mechanisms. For hard water buildup, nothing is bonding to the cortex. It's all on the top of the hair so there is NO necessity to chelate at all. Simply clarify.

In most cases, all one needs is typically clarifying. I hardly ever recommend chelating. I think the last time I recommended that it was perhaps 3-4 years ago, maybe longer. I recommend to attempt clarifying, at least twice before proceeding to chelating, anyway. In most cases, clarifying will solve the problem.

I also had to switch soaps that I use on my body. I'm very sensitive to SLS in shampoos, and dry, itchy skin.

heidi w.

[moxamoll]

I agree to try chelating. We have hard to very hard water depending on the season. When I notice my ends starting to get grabby, I juice a lemon and mix it up with about 8-10 ounces of water. After I shampoo, I pour in the lemon water and let it sit for 1-2 minutes and then rinse very thoroughly. When my hair is dry - presto! no more tangles.

ETA: I don't do this on a regular basis, as it can be very drying. Only when I notice the grabby ends starting, which usually works out to once every 4-6 weeks.

EATA: If you go online, most municipalities have information about water hardness somewhere on their websites, if you want to check yours.

[heidi w.]

Additionally, one way to know about hard water problems is how is your clothing feeling after machine washing?

Do you have to constantly re-apply soap to the sponge when washing dishes?

If yes, there's a good chance you have hard water. In a hard water environment, sudsing doesn't stay for long nor become overly bubbly or sudsy.

Hard water will also put spots on dishes, and it can sometimes be quite difficult to remove them. I had plates that just would not come clean, the film of hard water was so tough! Even vinegar rinses didn't help my dishes!! It was completely aggravating, and upsetting.

I took to using white distilled vinegar in the washing machine to help soften and remove odors from clothing. Baking soda I used in the laundry to help lift stains and whiten a bit.

You might consider trying a vinegar rinse. Many report their hair becomes a bit more soft. If you don't know how to do it, it's super easy. It's merely a rinse that one applies and fairly immediately rinses out. Do not let it sit on hair as there is no known benefit to doing that. Most apply this rinse between shampooing and conditioning. I did it after conditioning since I used Apple Cider Vinegar. This kind of vinegar is known to have malic acid in it because of the apple pulp that's in this kind of Vinegar. HOWEVER, if you're blonde or light colored, use white, distilled vinegar instead since ACV has a reddish hue to it, and doing this for a long time can produce a reddish tinge to lighter colored hair.

I used to use a fast food Biggie Cup and put 3 Tablespoons of ACV in it, and fill the rest with water. And after I washed and conditioned my hair, I would dip my length in the cup, and pour the rest over my head.

I did ACV as a way to help my problem with Seborrheic Dermatitus. But most people do not have this scalp skin condition and ACV rinse for another reason, to balance the pH of the scalp skin because one's skin likes a slightly more "acidic" environment (look up pH scales online, and you can also internet search for Acid Mantle or pH balancing too). Its second benefit is that it can remove any product left on the hair that is unrinsed out, and can also combat hard water mineral deposits.

If you don't like the aroma of vinegar, you can also try lemon juice or lime juice.

Many, however, report that they feel that their hair is softer in the wake of an ACV rinse.

There's still some confusion floating around out there in regards to ACV or vinegar being "clarifying". It is not. It can ONLY remove what gets on the hair in that particular hair wash only. Once stuff has had a chance to dry on the hair, ACV or vinegar nor lemon nor lime will remove it. One must clarify, then to remove it. And Vinegar rinses are not clarifying. While some people kind of think of ACV or vinegar being clarifying, this is a misuse of the terms, and sadly, multitides remain confused and go on recommending stuff without being very clear.

So, for your situation I would recommend finding a shower head filter system AND ACV or some kind of acidic rinse to help your problem.

Also, once you change your water's hardness, it may become unnecessary to clarify so frequently. Clarifying should only be performed on an as-needed schedule, not on some regular schedule. I have not clarified my hair in a few years. And I oil and condition my hair length regularly.

Oiling heavily prior to braiding should not be necessary. I am thinking that some of this tangle problem might mute if you handle the problem you're having: the hardness of the water.

I'm a big proponent of solving the actual source of the problem, not solving the symptoms of the problem. I like solutions. I never advocate adding more stuff on top of stuff which typically only aggravates the problem, masks the problem, and can sometimes cause the problem to become worse.

I hope this post is of help.
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I agree to try chelating. We have hard to very hard water depending on the season. When I notice my ends starting to get grabby, I juice a lemon and mix it up with about 8-10 ounces of water. After I shampoo, I pour in the lemon water and let it sit for 1-2 minutes and then rinse very thoroughly. When my hair is dry - presto! no more tangles.

ETA: I don't do this on a regular basis, as it can be very drying. Only when I notice the grabby ends starting, which usually works out to once every 4-6 weeks.

EATA: If you go online, most municipalities have information about water hardness somewhere on their websites, if you want to check yours.

And for the O.P. and example of the confusion over terminology: chelating. No. Clarifying, actually also a no. This person is using an acid rinse to handle the hard water in her environment.

Sorry Moxamoll. Just that you handily made my point in my post regarding the confusion of clarifying and chelating.

heidi w.

[UP Lisa]

So under what circumstances would you suggest chelating? I was under the impression that one had to chelate to remove hard water deposits for some reason.



Above in another post, I responded that mineral buildup on hair can absolutely contribute to detangling. Be sure to not mix up what chelating and clarifying are.

Chelating is addressing things that have bonded to the cortex.

Clarifying strips the hair's surface, what's on top of the cuticle, and removes it. Once you clarify, one usually needs to condition as part of this hair wash because one must replace what's been removed.

See the above post regarding water filter mechanisms. For hard water buildup, nothing is bonding to the cortex. It's all on the top of the hair so there is NO necessity to chelate at all. Simply clarify.

In most cases, all one needs is typically clarifying. I hardly ever recommend chelating. I think the last time I recommended that it was perhaps 3-4 years ago, maybe longer. I recommend to attempt clarifying, at least twice before proceeding to chelating, anyway. In most cases, clarifying will solve the problem.

I also had to switch soaps that I use on my body. I'm very sensitive to SLS in shampoos, and dry, itchy skin.

heidi w.

[UP Lisa]

I have this exact same problem, and I've just thought it was a fine hair thing. I do have hard water, which I'm sure doesn't help.

[heidi w.]

So under what circumstances would you suggest chelating? I was under the impression that one had to chelate to remove hard water deposits for some reason.

Years ago, I helped a woman by explaining chelating to her. She had infused her hair with I think, a sea salt water solution that some hairdresser recommended to her, and afterwards her hair behaved really strangely and wouldn't stop behaving that way, even if she clarified. So I advocated in a number of threads that she give chelating a try, and that solved her problem.

It has to be something that somehow bonded to the hair's cortex. Not just merely be on the surface of the hair, on top of the cuticle.


Generally, hard water deposits can be removed by simply clarifying. Further, if one does an acidic rinse as part of each hair wash, this can help to manage hard water deposits.

I hope that helps a bit.
heidi w.

[UP Lisa]

I'm not sure why, but my hair seems to need clarifying pretty often in order to keep the tangles down.

I hate to do it too often. Afraid of drying it out.

[jeanniet]

The first thing I would do is get a report on your water. If you're on well water, most companies that sell filtration units will do a free basic test for you that will give you a hardness and mineral/metals report. If you're on city water, you should be able to get a report from the water department (it may even be online). Here the water departments have to provide an annual report that covers everything from hardness to bacterial content. Knowing what's in your water will tell you if you have a simple hard water problem, or a chelation issue along with the hard water.

If you look for a filter, make sure you find one that will do what you want it to--some mostly filter chlorine/chloramines and may not do the job you need. A whole house water softener will help with hard water, but may not be the solution if you have other minerals (iron in particular), and softeners have their own issues. A softener is out of the question for us, partly because it wouldn't solve the mineral problem entirely, but also because they use a large quantity of water to do the backwashing and this is a water-sensitive area. My solution is to use citric acid rinses. CA is a chelator, cheap and easy to use, and quite effective. I don't clarify often (maybe every few months), because regular CA rinses make a big difference. Depending on whether you have a chelation problem or not, it may help if you use a chelating shampoo first, then do a DT. Joico makes a good one. Then try oiling and braiding. I have the same issue you do (tangling at the ends), but if I oil I can usually untangle with my fingers as I go without too much trouble.

Oh, and the soap sudsing issue may not be a clue to hard water. That's really only true if you have very hard water. I don't have any problems with sudsing, but I do definitely have hard water (10). The best clue is water spotting on glasses (if you don't use a rinse agent), on faucets, etc. BTW, CA in the dishwasher and washing machine will keep them from getting buildup, too.

ETA: Forgot to put this in: If you have well water, you very likely do have a chelation issue. City water, maybe.

[RapunzelKat]

Thanks again everyone! :D I really appreciate all the advice and suggestions. :flower:

Just to be clear :) I know for a fact that I have hard water where I live, although I am not sure of the exact "number." Water softeners are necessary here if you don't want to deal with the hard water, and I do not have one.

Holly w., I am definitely going to look into the filtration shower head, thank you! I am renting and that sounds like it would be a great solution. I will do my research to find the right type, then I'll get one as soon as it's in the budget :D If they're inexpensive, hopefully in the next week or so!

I had another chelating-related question for you... Is it possible for hair products such as hairspray to actually adhere to the cortex? I only recently was able to give up hairspray completely - a couple weeks ago when I got my satin pillowcase. Is this something that could possibly need to be chelated off, or is clarifying enough to get all hairspray residue out?

I actually tried a lemon rinse yesterday, and I definitely noticed a difference, so I think I'm on the right track! :thumbsup: I was actually mostly just hoping it would help smooth my cuticles after clarifying, and I don't have any ACV on hand. My hair felt softer and easier to deal with, and I had much less trouble French braiding it last night. (Still a bit of trouble, but not as much as usual.) However, getting a shower head that would actually fix the water would be much easier in the long run, and might also be good for my skin :)

[RapunzelKat]

I also had a question for my fellow tangle suffers who have posted on this thread... ;) Do you guys think it would be a good idea to start an official tangle support type thread? Somewhere where we could collect advice on dealing with various tangle problems and help each other troubleshoot... :D I have been thinking about doing this since I've noticed a number of people posting about tangle problems, but I wasn't sure if others would find it useful. :cheese:

[heidi w.]

Holly w., I am definitely going to look into the filtration shower head, thank you! I am renting and that sounds like it would be a great solution. I will do my research to find the right type, then I'll get one as soon as it's in the budget :D If they're inexpensive, hopefully in the next week or so!

I had another chelating-related question for you... Is it possible for hair products such as hairspray to actually adhere to the cortex? I only recently was able to give up hairspray completely - a couple weeks ago when I got my satin pillowcase. Is this something that could possibly need to be chelated off, or is clarifying enough to get all hairspray residue out?

I actually tried a lemon rinse yesterday, and I definitely noticed a difference, so I think I'm on the right track! :thumbsup: I was actually mostly just hoping it would help smooth my cuticles after clarifying, and I don't have any ACV on hand. My hair felt softer and easier to deal with, and I had much less trouble French braiding it last night. (Still a bit of trouble, but not as much as usual.) However, getting a shower head that would actually fix the water would be much easier in the long run, and might also be good for my skin :)

I answer to Holly too!! LOL.

Hairspray is on the cuticle only, and only needs clarifying at most, shampooing to get rid of it usually. No chelating required.

Most of the time you do not need to chelate, merely clarify. That's it. Chelating is sometimes done in advance of some hair treatments such as permanents or coloring perhaps. Cause you want nothing else to infringe on the uptake of the treatment.

Hair spray is a topical application, so only at most needs clarifying.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I also had a question for my fellow tangle suffers who have posted on this thread... ;) Do you guys think it would be a good idea to start an official tangle support type thread? Somewhere where we could collect advice on dealing with various tangle problems and help each other troubleshoot... :D I have been thinking about doing this since I've noticed a number of people posting about tangle problems, but I wasn't sure if others would find it useful. :cheese:

Most longhaired folks have to deal with tangles some percent of the time. Severe tangles are handled by a need, perhaps, to trim; by a switch in products; by adding conditioning, if one does not condition; ....

Lots of reasons for tangles, and a big enormous thread on the topic, would kind of mean taking away talking about hair to an extent.

People will recommend all kinds of stuff, and I also think these enormous threads are too much for people to read. Most people just want their question answered, somewhat directly, without having to wade through pages of stuff that may or may not apply.

heidi w.

[darklyndsea]

Most longhaired folks have to deal with tangles some percent of the time. Severe tangles are handled by a need, perhaps, to trim; by a switch in products; by adding conditioning, if one does not condition; ....

Lots of reasons for tangles, and a big enormous thread on the topic, would kind of mean taking away talking about hair to an extent.

People will recommend all kinds of stuff, and I also think these enormous threads are too much for people to read. Most people just want their question answered, somewhat directly, without having to wade through pages of stuff that may or may not apply.

heidi w.
Sure, most of the time it's too much of a hassle to go through enormous threads, but personally I like for them to be around, because a lot of the time these smaller threads don't get very many replies. I mean, if you only get two replies and neither of the suggestions work for you...sure, you can post your problem again, but some of us have enough problems posting once, much less twice. So personally I'm in favor of a big thread...or at least a well-written article (I've thought about writing one myself, but other than my own personal solution I don't know enough to make it good).

[RapunzelKat]

I answer to Holly too!! LOL.

Hairspray is on the cuticle only, and only needs clarifying at most, shampooing to get rid of it usually. No chelating required.

Most of the time you do not need to chelate, merely clarify. That's it. Chelating is sometimes done in advance of some hair treatments such as permanents or coloring perhaps. Cause you want nothing else to infringe on the uptake of the treatment.

Hair spray is a topical application, so only at most needs clarifying.

heidi w.

LOL I am so sorry Heidi!! Where on earth did I get that from? :o Note to self: If posting while you have a headache, make sure and edit twice!! :rolleyes: Oh dear...

Thank you again! I'll stick to the clarifying and acid rinses until I get the info I need to get the right type of shower head :) It sounds like you'd have to do something pretty unusual to your hair to actually need chelating!

[RapunzelKat]

Most longhaired folks have to deal with tangles some percent of the time. Severe tangles are handled by a need, perhaps, to trim; by a switch in products; by adding conditioning, if one does not condition; ....

Lots of reasons for tangles, and a big enormous thread on the topic, would kind of mean taking away talking about hair to an extent.

People will recommend all kinds of stuff, and I also think these enormous threads are too much for people to read. Most people just want their question answered, somewhat directly, without having to wade through pages of stuff that may or may not apply.

heidi w.


Sure, most of the time it's too much of a hassle to go through enormous threads, but personally I like for them to be around, because a lot of the time these smaller threads don't get very many replies. I mean, if you only get two replies and neither of the suggestions work for you...sure, you can post your problem again, but some of us have enough problems posting once, much less twice. So personally I'm in favor of a big thread...or at least a well-written article (I've thought about writing one myself, but other than my own personal solution I don't know enough to make it good).

Good points from both of you... :agree: An article seems like it might be useful, at least to help people troubleshoot with some of the basic causes of severe tangles, and it would be much more concise than one of those huge threads. Maybe a Q&A type thing... For example "My hair tangles while braiding," followed with some advice on how to prevent back-braiding. Things like that. Then of course people who still had questions or needed guidance on how to deal with particular problems could post on the Mane Forum and get personal help. ;)

I was thinking a tangle-themed thread might be a good way to gather info from members with experience dealing with tangles as well as those who have current problems, and then turn that into an article. But I don't think I can write articles for quite a while yet, so I have time to give it some thought :D

[Fairlight63]

I love to braid my hair but I have the same problem when braiding my hair. My hair is thin & fine. The strands stick together & when I try to separate them it is like pulling apart a cob web :mad: sometimes it feels like I am pulling out hairs or breaking them trying to separate them. Then I just give up in frustration.:(

I will be rereading this posting and writing down what suggestions are made. I know that I have hard water also. Does anyone recommend a good shower head that softens the water?

Thanks!

[melusine963]

Thanks to everyone's good advice on this thread. This week I managed to create my very first successful french braid!!! I'm already trying out a number of new hairstyles that require this. :)